1111: How Sales and Marketing Leaders Can be w/ Nimmy Reichenberg

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.160 There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:09.310 to pay attention to your brand? Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients 3 00:00:09.550 --> 00:00:19.390 to be guests on your show. Learn more at sweetfish MEDIACOM. You're listening 4 00:00:19.429 --> 00:00:24.179 to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed 5 00:00:24.219 --> 00:00:27.859 names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but 6 00:00:27.980 --> 00:00:32.259 you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk 7 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:36.810 of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are 8 00:00:36.929 --> 00:00:41.729 in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting 9 00:00:41.770 --> 00:00:45.729 with tactics. They're building the fastest growing be tob companies in the world. 10 00:00:46.369 --> 00:00:49.850 My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweetfish media, a podcast 11 00:00:49.890 --> 00:00:53.119 agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the CO hosts of this 12 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:57.520 show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from 13 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.000 behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of 14 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:04.349 our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, 15 00:01:04.989 --> 00:01:14.709 maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to be tob growth. I 16 00:01:14.829 --> 00:01:19.420 am your host for today's episode, Nikki Ivy with sweet fish media. Listen, 17 00:01:19.459 --> 00:01:23.299 guys, I've got with me to day NIMMI Reekenberg, who is chief 18 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:27.420 marketing officer at simplify. Mimi, how you doing today? I'm great. 19 00:01:27.459 --> 00:01:30.340 Thank you so much for having me. It's going to be it's going to 20 00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:33.930 be fun. I love the topic that we're going to be covering to day 21 00:01:34.609 --> 00:01:37.290 and I love the way that you sort of think about these things. Guys, 22 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:42.810 we're going to be digginning to how and why sales and marketing leaders can 23 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:48.439 be vss, which is not often a way do we hear those two discipline 24 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:52.959 described, but it is something that we should be a striving for. You 25 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.120 going to talk to us about why and how. But before we get into 26 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:57.959 all of that, near me, I would love it if you would just 27 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.269 give us a little bit of background on yourself and what you and the folks 28 00:02:02.310 --> 00:02:07.510 that simplified been up to these days. Sure, so, he said, 29 00:02:07.549 --> 00:02:10.710 of the chief marketing officer at simplify. This is my fourth see more role, 30 00:02:12.389 --> 00:02:17.379 and simplify is in a cyber security company. We in our inner space 31 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:23.219 within cyber security that goes by sore for security orchestration automation and responds and basically 32 00:02:23.259 --> 00:02:30.810 we provide a platform that helps security professionals work more effectively automate a lot of 33 00:02:30.889 --> 00:02:35.650 their tasks for all US marketers out there and not unlike what a marketing automation 34 00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:40.490 platform is for marketing professionals, simplify as fires to be for security professionals, 35 00:02:40.569 --> 00:02:46.560 where just over a und employees, growing very, very fast and having fun 36 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.879 doing it right. I'm glad you said that the last part, because that 37 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:55.520 that absolutely matters and one of the things that plays into how much fun we 38 00:02:55.639 --> 00:03:00.150 can have here in a bdb sitting a lot of the time is to the 39 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:05.389 extent to which not just the disciplines and departments that stales the marketing are aligned, 40 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:09.870 but specifically how all those two leaders work together and collaborate together. So 41 00:03:10.189 --> 00:03:15.860 it's in everybody's best interest as much as possible for those two rote be bfs 42 00:03:15.979 --> 00:03:20.139 and I want, I want just to give us started. Gives no review 43 00:03:20.180 --> 00:03:23.259 of why you think that is. Some experiences that you had maybe that sort 44 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:27.930 of informed that of being in sure so, and I think we all read 45 00:03:28.129 --> 00:03:31.169 all the data about you know the CMO turnover and the Turner is getting shorter 46 00:03:31.289 --> 00:03:34.930 and shorter. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it is me twenty 47 00:03:34.969 --> 00:03:38.129 four months and a drop to eighteen. I've seen it as low as twelve 48 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:40.520 months. The hopefully I still have a job by the time this this podcast 49 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:45.000 is over. But from from my experience, you know, one of the 50 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.280 key factors too kind to see a most success the longevity, is having a 51 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.039 good relationship with your sales counterpart and the kind of that's kind of why I 52 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:57.710 picked this topic for the all the CFOs out there and maybe even more importantly, 53 00:03:57.789 --> 00:04:00.550 for the aspiring CMO is out there, to of course they understand that 54 00:04:00.629 --> 00:04:04.189 this is a part of the importance, but then also share a little bit 55 00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:10.460 of how I believe I was successful for the most part in achieving this. 56 00:04:10.659 --> 00:04:14.219 And you know, I think I've worked along alongside a lot of sales leader 57 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:18.980 and the the overwhelming majority of the Times I've had a great work in relationship 58 00:04:19.339 --> 00:04:24.220 with them. Still in touch with most most of them to this day. 59 00:04:24.610 --> 00:04:26.970 And you know, when I was interviewed for seeing more rules, where the 60 00:04:27.009 --> 00:04:30.209 common questions, of rightly so, was well, how do you handle the 61 00:04:30.329 --> 00:04:33.689 tension between know you and the head of sales and and my responsible as well, 62 00:04:33.730 --> 00:04:39.639 and all honestly, almost never experienced tension with my sales kind of party 63 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:41.879 ers. Why? So that's why I kind of thought this was an important 64 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:45.759 topic to discuss. All this pots. Sure, and so now you got 65 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.319 to share it with us. Now, okay, what he said your ways. 66 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.069 So so how did you? How did you avoid, because I think 67 00:04:54.110 --> 00:04:58.990 that's the first thing you talked about offline here, about how a depth you've 68 00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:02.509 been, or had to be at diffusing some of that tension. Start with, 69 00:05:02.709 --> 00:05:05.949 though, some of the things you do going in and some things folks 70 00:05:05.990 --> 00:05:12.620 can do going in to avoid that tension all together and possible. Sure, 71 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:17.339 so to me it all begins with shared goals and shared metrics, right, 72 00:05:17.379 --> 00:05:20.970 and I think everybody talks this talk and it said. It's maybe common knowledge, 73 00:05:21.050 --> 00:05:26.490 but it's not always common practice, right, and I can tell you 74 00:05:26.529 --> 00:05:30.410 how many times I've heard stories of meetings or board meetings. We're in on 75 00:05:30.490 --> 00:05:33.009 a CMO presented and said, all right, we've had a great quarter. 76 00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:38.759 Right, we needed to generate a hundred squlls and we generated two hundred Su 77 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.879 Right, great job marketing. We killed it. And after that, you 78 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.639 know, they had to Celles went to present and guess what? Right that 79 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:48.199 all the guys. We had a terrible quarter. You know, we need 80 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:53.029 to generate ten million dollars in revenue and we only generated six million dollars of 81 00:05:53.149 --> 00:05:56.110 revenue. And in that is you know, that's an extreme case, but 82 00:05:56.230 --> 00:06:00.709 not that I'm common of. Clear misalignment between sales and marketing and how how 83 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:04.939 their goals of structure. So, from a practical perspective, the number one 84 00:06:05.060 --> 00:06:11.339 goal that I always set for me and my team is closed revenue. Right, 85 00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:14.100 and and and I get pushed back on that a lot of times from 86 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:16.019 from marketers, and maybe you work at other company says, what do you 87 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:19.370 mean close revenue? But how can we influence closed? Everything we can include, 88 00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:24.170 can generate lead, we can maybe generate pipeline, but ultimately, you 89 00:06:24.290 --> 00:06:26.730 know, the sales people are the ones that have to take these great leads 90 00:06:27.490 --> 00:06:30.370 that we generate and they have full control over whether it turns into revenue. 91 00:06:30.730 --> 00:06:34.360 And and my response to this objection is to fold is. One is we 92 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:38.399 want to have a successful relationship with sales. It's important for all of us 93 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.879 and this is the way we do it. And the second thing is I 94 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.160 also say, Hey, if you think the sales people have full control or 95 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:47.310 whether a deal clothes or not, I've got another you know, I've got 96 00:06:47.350 --> 00:06:49.949 some news to shore with you. Right, and you nobody has full control. 97 00:06:50.269 --> 00:06:54.629 There's so many factors that can go wrong. But being in that same 98 00:06:54.709 --> 00:06:58.430 boat with with with sales, also means that we as a marketing and even 99 00:06:58.430 --> 00:07:01.019 enough, if I kind of layer break it down, operationally, our job 100 00:07:01.139 --> 00:07:05.379 is to help sales at every stage of the deal. Right. Our our 101 00:07:05.540 --> 00:07:09.620 job is not done when we deliver a sales qualify of the the sales. 102 00:07:09.939 --> 00:07:14.139 There's many things that we can do throughout the the sales cycle and after the 103 00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:17.930 sale cycle, with customer advocacy, et Cetera, to olderly helped sales close 104 00:07:18.009 --> 00:07:24.170 more edge. So number one goal is always closed revenue. Then you talked 105 00:07:24.170 --> 00:07:30.560 about note that typeline and squls, but but typically the kind of hard revenue 106 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:35.160 and and or very closely tied to revenue goals are the lines share of the 107 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:40.800 goals that both me and my team are are measured. And the second thing 108 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:45.509 that I kind of the flip side of that is what I never set as 109 00:07:45.550 --> 00:07:51.189 a goal that I share with sales or share share with the board are marketing 110 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:55.389 metrics that you can ring. So I mean there's not talk about vanity metrics, 111 00:07:55.430 --> 00:07:57.990 and of course I can. Web traffic is a vanity metric. But 112 00:07:58.110 --> 00:08:01.540 even goals like mqls, ultimately the way they work in most organization that you 113 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:03.699 know, I can kind of set the threshold for what an Mteld it. 114 00:08:03.819 --> 00:08:07.300 So if I want more mqls, you know it kind of you know, 115 00:08:07.459 --> 00:08:13.250 tweet the definitional event or change the lead scoring model and my marketing automation system. 116 00:08:13.449 --> 00:08:16.209 And then here's more. I am to up right, so I can 117 00:08:16.329 --> 00:08:18.370 rig that to make myself look good. And I and of course we measure 118 00:08:18.370 --> 00:08:20.810 quels, if you measure web traffic and a whole bunch of other things. 119 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:26.050 But again, when we talk about those shared goals, I avoid any metric 120 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:31.120 that I can kind of artificially rig on you internal to the marketing part. 121 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.440 That makes sense and I so seen that. I've seen that. You know, 122 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:39.120 I did a lot of my experience because, I like to say, 123 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:43.990 in these start up streets, they're out there in Austin as a sales person 124 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:50.070 and yeah, I've seen what happens when those metrics that can be manipulated or, 125 00:08:50.269 --> 00:08:54.899 you know, instantly misinterpreted, whatever it is, be the number one 126 00:08:56.139 --> 00:09:00.059 contributor to that Miss Alignment. It's like the the scenario you talked about in 127 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:03.659 the very beginning where, you know, you have these these meetings and marketing 128 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:09.169 is talking about how successful a quarter of they've had and there's a disconnect between 129 00:09:09.250 --> 00:09:13.929 that and what seals is experience thing and I think that, like you said, 130 00:09:13.409 --> 00:09:18.169 it's, you know, not understanding which of the shared metrics need to 131 00:09:18.210 --> 00:09:22.370 be focused on in order to achieve that that common goal. But one of 132 00:09:22.409 --> 00:09:26.559 the ways, because you mentioned that, you know, markers would be like 133 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.759 hey, we're doing our job and sales is just, you know, dropping 134 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.440 the ball. I don't know if the language is that strong, I've certainly 135 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.080 heard it be that strong, but one of the ways to sort of for 136 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:39.429 your for your own good as a marketer, to test that out, as 137 00:09:39.509 --> 00:09:45.669 you mentioned offline, is to walk in their shoes and I've so, I've 138 00:09:45.750 --> 00:09:48.470 heard this, I've, we've thought, talked to other other seems and marketing 139 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:52.750 leaders who have who have had a similar idea, which is, you know, 140 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:58.259 make better use of call recording software and listen or even do ride alongs 141 00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:03.139 with sales folks and be on a live call with them. But you're you 142 00:10:03.379 --> 00:10:07.769 meant to take it a step further. You talked about actually prospecting. So 143 00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:13.250 if I'm a marketer and I have this idea, this this slide deck and 144 00:10:13.330 --> 00:10:16.649 I think this is the slide deck to end all slide decks, if only 145 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:20.370 these sales people could get it right, what better way to test that out 146 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.159 for all of our good then for me to try and see what I can 147 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.159 do with it? Talk to us about that for a little bit. This 148 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.360 is interesting, sure. So I think the main point is, as you 149 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:33.919 mention, and if you want to have a good relationship with sales, walk 150 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.789 as many miles in their shoes right as as makes sense, because it being 151 00:10:39.070 --> 00:10:43.190 sales people. And this is true at the leadership level. It's also true, 152 00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:48.789 you know, further down the the the ORG chart. Sales have respect 153 00:10:48.350 --> 00:10:52.019 for people who walk it down their shoes right. I mean we actually hear 154 00:10:52.059 --> 00:10:56.419 it's simple time. You recently brought on a great new kind of sales and 155 00:10:56.500 --> 00:10:58.539 you know, one of the things he's already said Multiple Times, and I've 156 00:10:58.539 --> 00:11:01.899 heard of multiple passant. I agree that every anythings sales is easy until you 157 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:05.049 actually have to do it right. So sales is hard and and I think 158 00:11:05.090 --> 00:11:07.529 the only way you can appreciate how hard it is and what the challenge is 159 00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:11.370 are is to walk a couple miles in their shoes. And I can be 160 00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:15.250 a lot of things, as you said. It can mean things like going 161 00:11:15.370 --> 00:11:18.360 on sales cause and whether their virtual or actually physical with sales, right. 162 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:22.559 And and one of the things that I try very hard with myself is kind 163 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.679 of port is to get my team listening on, on on customer call. 164 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:30.159 It's not always easy and sometimes cells are protective of these things, but if 165 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:31.679 you have a good relationship and you do it, obviously you know. In 166 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.629 reason, I think it's very important to get your team members in front of 167 00:11:35.909 --> 00:11:41.509 with sales, in front of customers and perspective, customers of God, as 168 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:43.230 far as yes, let's prospect, let's take these, you know, a 169 00:11:43.269 --> 00:11:46.379 bunch of these leads that come back from shows and actually, you know, 170 00:11:46.700 --> 00:11:50.220 test our great scripts in our great message. Right, and you know, 171 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:52.820 let me see, first day, if somebody says, Hey, that's you 172 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:54.740 know, that's a pretty bad pitch, right. I mean that's the way. 173 00:11:56.019 --> 00:12:00.659 So even presentation right again, it said, you know, you build 174 00:12:00.700 --> 00:12:03.769 a straight presitation. How about you presented on a customer call once right and 175 00:12:05.370 --> 00:12:07.730 and see again if it's as great as you think it is or if you 176 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:11.450 know, once it's in in front of a real customer, maybe it's not 177 00:12:11.570 --> 00:12:16.120 as great as you think. So there's a lot of different things that that 178 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:20.440 marketing can do to walk some miles and sales is shoes and ultimately earn their 179 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.440 respect. And one of the things that we talked about, and I know 180 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:28.240 gravitate towards, I'm like, I'm religious about it, but I gravitate towards, 181 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.830 is having the sty R D or whatever you call it. But that 182 00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:37.830 team sit with marketing and again, I've seen it succeed both undermarketing under sales. 183 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:43.870 I've seen it not succeed both under marketing and under sales. But my 184 00:12:43.269 --> 00:12:50.299 my case for for putting it under marketing is twofold one. Is exactly that. 185 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:54.340 Ali Right. You're much closer to walk in a day in sales the 186 00:12:54.379 --> 00:12:56.580 students when you own the is the our team, because now you're not just 187 00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:01.210 passing business cards over the fence to sales. You actually have to reach out 188 00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:05.090 to them, see if those are good leads, actually get them interested, 189 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:09.970 at least would out initial pitch and do that initial qualification before you hand them 190 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:13.879 over to sens right, and then members who are members of the marketing team, 191 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.120 which are the SDRs, then also can can help the deal progress if 192 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.679 needed, as the deal move moves and progresses towards towards the close. So 193 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.669 I think owning the SCR function and having that currency with your head of sales 194 00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:33.990 be in in sales qualified meetings and appointments and not in just raw leads really 195 00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:37.590 helps the goal of becoming the sales leaders be a F and, and you 196 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:39.950 and I talked about this before the podcast. I think you know one of 197 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:43.139 the things as a marketer, when you own the SCR team, you're going 198 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:46.460 to have be prepared. You have to be prepared to promote some of them 199 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:50.940 into sales roles and then they leave the SCR team and become part of the 200 00:13:50.980 --> 00:13:54.970 sales team. But what you then have is you have these great ambassadors that 201 00:13:56.090 --> 00:13:58.250 used to be part of the marketing department now working in sales, and that 202 00:13:58.490 --> 00:14:03.450 helps bring those two teams closer together as well. For sure, for sure, 203 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:07.289 because you know they're their ambassadors, because their believers, because they've been 204 00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:11.440 been engaging with this marketing function for all this time. The best application that 205 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.879 I've seen of what you just mentioned as a company I worked for. Back 206 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.840 when I work for them, they were a company called Kinser and awesome. 207 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:26.149 Texas sold electronic medical record software into the home health industry and very successful. 208 00:14:26.190 --> 00:14:31.830 They're now huge. They're called well sty the international but at this time we 209 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:37.590 were called MDR so, market development reps, and we were paired one to 210 00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:45.019 one with account executives, but we, for all intents and purposes, were 211 00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:48.820 part of this marketing team, to the extent that if the marketing team had 212 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:54.370 put together a a Webinar that was for our, you know, prospects and 213 00:14:54.490 --> 00:15:00.370 customers, the MD ours were required to sit in on those webinars. Right. 214 00:15:00.929 --> 00:15:05.970 So we were engaging with the content that the marketing team was producing in 215 00:15:07.090 --> 00:15:11.759 a way that wasn't just here is this deck or here, here are, 216 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:16.039 here is this messaging. We were able to see the house and wise in 217 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:20.830 terms of the creation of that that messaging, and yes, it absolutely stuck 218 00:15:20.870 --> 00:15:24.389 with us and yes, it absolutely what we were having a much different conversation. 219 00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:31.629 As you know. You know mdrs in that setup than most SDRs recording 220 00:15:31.710 --> 00:15:35.700 to sales are having when they are engaging with elite. Right, because, 221 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:39.500 let's say we hadn't set in on those meetings and hadn't engaged with the contents 222 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:43.980 that marketing was putting out. But then we were responsible because there were still 223 00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:48.700 an mql system there. But then we're responsible for engaging with the leads that 224 00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:52.409 came from it, right, some of the hand raisers from these these webinars. 225 00:15:52.730 --> 00:15:56.169 Then we've kind of be going into those conversations blind, as most sales 226 00:15:56.210 --> 00:16:00.490 people do, right, and just kind of vaguely referencing, Hey, I 227 00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:03.570 know that you said it on this Webinar of ours, blah, Blah Blah. 228 00:16:03.850 --> 00:16:07.840 But having US had the responsibility of keeping ourselves informed on the content that 229 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:14.759 marketing was creating and then being really intentional about having a cohesive way that we 230 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.590 were telling that story and continuing having a continuity of that message, even as 231 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:22.230 we were reaching out to just hand raisers, made all the difference. All 232 00:16:22.350 --> 00:16:26.549 anybody out there, and I know like I'm not only using plug folks on 233 00:16:26.669 --> 00:16:30.830 this show, but if you're looking for an example of the things that we're 234 00:16:30.909 --> 00:16:37.340 talking about outside of Mimi himself, that company will sky really, really had 235 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:40.820 it right when it comes to things like that. So just everything that he's 236 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:42.779 been saying sort of reminding me of like that use case for these things. 237 00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:48.370 So thank you so much for laying out for us the importance of sales leaders 238 00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:53.009 and marketing leaders becoming bfs and talking to us about really how to make that 239 00:16:53.090 --> 00:17:00.929 happen through shared metrics, through SCR teams that roll up into, or at 240 00:17:00.929 --> 00:17:04.839 least engage regularly with with the marketing team, and through walking in each other 241 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.400 shoes. I think that's the way to go. Yeah, and I've just 242 00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:12.000 one more point. This is, let me specific to see most something always 243 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.029 try to do and also do here at simplify is, you know, simplified. 244 00:17:15.069 --> 00:17:18.789 We have the concept of executive sponsor. So when we work in a 245 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:25.750 very big strategic deal, in addition to the regular team right of sales, 246 00:17:25.789 --> 00:17:27.750 and I see that works the deal, there's also an executive sponsor and that 247 00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:32.539 is somebody from management that kind of, you know, has this overside the 248 00:17:32.619 --> 00:17:34.339 deal and can go to bat for that deal at the highest levels of the 249 00:17:34.420 --> 00:17:38.220 company. I always want to serve as an executive sponsor and a handful of 250 00:17:38.259 --> 00:17:44.329 deals and get this exposure to what is actually going on in the field. 251 00:17:44.329 --> 00:17:47.849 So that's a great kind of tactic for a CMO to I love that. 252 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:49.529 What happened. I love that. I love that so much. So now, 253 00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:53.890 maybe that I have successfully picked your brain and seeing what I could get 254 00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:57.250 out of it, it's time for you to tell us what you are putting 255 00:17:57.250 --> 00:18:02.160 in it. So talk to us about a learning resource that you've been engaging 256 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.759 with here recently. That or one that you, you know, just kind 257 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.480 of go back to from trying to time. That is for me in your 258 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.720 approach. This just got you excited these days? Sure. So, first 259 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.269 of all, say they hours. I think at this stage in my career 260 00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:19.670 the number one resource that I actually go to is fellow CMOS and fellow marketing 261 00:18:19.710 --> 00:18:25.349 US right. So I found out earlier in my career. I I in 262 00:18:25.630 --> 00:18:30.180 and I'll followed more blogs more diligently, followed more path podcast which are still 263 00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:33.619 doing in this is one of them. So it was really great when you 264 00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:37.380 when you have to actually have the opportunity to do to be on this podcast. 265 00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.019 But I think for me, at least over time, the number one 266 00:18:41.059 --> 00:18:42.609 research is just talking to Pollocy, I most, picking their brain, seeing 267 00:18:42.650 --> 00:18:45.369 what's out there. I do want to take you off on kind of a 268 00:18:45.970 --> 00:18:49.170 book that is off the beaten track. It's what it's not one of the 269 00:18:49.289 --> 00:18:53.890 classic books that most people heard of, heard about that I find myself referring 270 00:18:53.930 --> 00:18:56.559 to time and time again. Actually did that last week as well. It's 271 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.599 a book called killing giants. I don't remember the author right now but I 272 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.279 know if you google it you'll find it. But it's called killing giants and 273 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:08.160 it's basically great strategy. Some of them I actually use to this day to 274 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:11.630 I think that the subway line is, you know, proven strategies to battle 275 00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:15.670 the Galian in your industry, right so you know, if you're a small 276 00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:18.069 company, you going out up against big companies, which is often the case, 277 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:22.390 I sun for many of the listeners on this podcast. This book, 278 00:19:22.430 --> 00:19:26.140 and it's not new and maybe ten years old or something, has some great 279 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:30.460 strategies that I used to this very day as a relatively small company that sometimes 280 00:19:30.539 --> 00:19:33.819 have to compete with with very big company. So that's a kind of an 281 00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:37.180 off the beaten track recommendation. I love it. I'm all about giving a 282 00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:44.170 the edge to the to the underdogs. Story of my life. I have 283 00:19:44.329 --> 00:19:47.170 to check that out one out. So maybe I know that, just like 284 00:19:47.410 --> 00:19:51.250 me, everybody listening has become a fast fan of yours and they're going to 285 00:19:51.369 --> 00:19:52.759 want to know how to keep up with you. So let it tell us, 286 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.240 let us know how folks can connect with you. Sure, so very 287 00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:00.079 active on Linkedin and Reichenberg. You can find it. They're less active on 288 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:07.230 twitter, but at and Reichenberg is my hand along on twitter, and you 289 00:20:07.349 --> 00:20:11.910 can also email me at and Reichenberg, at simplify spelt S. I feel 290 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:17.150 I have why do feel perfect? Thank you so much. There's a million 291 00:20:17.269 --> 00:20:19.150 other things, other questions I'd like to ask you. Just be based on 292 00:20:19.349 --> 00:20:25.099 your experience as a four time CMOS as one of the aspirations I have actually 293 00:20:25.099 --> 00:20:27.980 as well. Well, I'd like to be a first a onetime seem right, 294 00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:33.019 but it can fill another show, so we'll have to have you one 295 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:36.250 again sometime here in the future. This has been great. I think you 296 00:20:36.329 --> 00:20:38.529 gave us a lot to chew on, to think about and to apply, 297 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:41.730 I which is also my goal, always my goal for this show. Thank 298 00:20:41.769 --> 00:20:44.809 you so much for being on the show today. To me, thank you 299 00:20:44.970 --> 00:20:51.440 with my punter. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content 300 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.759 on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's 301 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:59.359 why we've started the BB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils 302 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.160 down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today 303 00:21:03.309 --> 00:21:10.869 at sweet fish mediacoma big three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM big three.