Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.799 Wouldn't it be nice to have several thought leaders in your industry know and Love 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.230 Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests 3 00:00:10.310 --> 00:00:15.429 on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:25.699 influencers? Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:30.500 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 6 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:34.420 before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 7 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.729 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 8 00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:43.289 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 9 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:48.170 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 10 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:52.759 building the fastest growing BTB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.320 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 12 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.640 and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not 13 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:03.600 interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our 14 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.510 own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attend 15 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.590 to take over the world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:19.700 show. Welcome back to be tob growth. I am your host for today's 17 00:01:19.780 --> 00:01:23.299 episode, Nikki Ivy, with sweet fish media. Guys. I've got with 18 00:01:23.379 --> 00:01:29.620 me today Dale Hall, who is Chief Marketing Officer at people that Ai Tale. 19 00:01:29.739 --> 00:01:32.340 How you doing today? I'm doing well, Nikki, nice too. 20 00:01:32.540 --> 00:01:36.129 Nice to be a good man. I'm so excited to talk to you today. 21 00:01:36.129 --> 00:01:41.290 We're going to be guys digging into kind to draw a line between marketing 22 00:01:41.450 --> 00:01:45.090 and sales. Not In know that you think, but he's he's got some 23 00:01:45.170 --> 00:01:49.040 interesting ways of thinking about and talking about this and we'll jump in here in 24 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.439 a minute. But before we do deal, I love it if you would 25 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:55.079 just give us all a little bit of background on yourself phone what you and 26 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.280 the folks at people that Ai have been up to these days. Sure. 27 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:02.230 So, I like to consider myself I'm a professional marketer. I Love Marketing, 28 00:02:02.390 --> 00:02:07.629 I love the psychology of marketing, buying behavior, really making sure that 29 00:02:07.750 --> 00:02:12.710 you can create something that really appeals to people and kind of influence behavior. 30 00:02:13.110 --> 00:02:15.979 So I've been doing marketing now for over twenty years and it's, you know, 31 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:20.460 I don't want to be CEO. I don't want to be a CEO. 32 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:23.460 I like, I love being CMO and being a marketer. I join 33 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:30.009 people a I actually because when I talked to the founder ceoo like, I 34 00:02:30.210 --> 00:02:32.810 completely resonated with what they were trying to solve for, which was the they 35 00:02:32.849 --> 00:02:38.569 were basically trying to find a way of for me as a marketer to be 36 00:02:38.729 --> 00:02:44.319 more successful, to really understand what was happening, to to leads two things 37 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:46.199 that I would be spending money on and getting a result of that. And 38 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:53.639 basically, what people ai does is we basically we have something called a revenue 39 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.039 intelligence system. So with the first ones to come out with this, it's 40 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.389 it's something new, it's bleeding edge, it's category creation. But what it 41 00:03:00.469 --> 00:03:07.030 does is it captures all contact and customer activity data, so any engagement through 42 00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:14.099 email, calendars, Zoom, slack, it captures it. It basically dynamically 43 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:17.620 then updates your crm. Once it does that, once you have all that 44 00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:25.259 that's captured, you're then able to run really interesting intelligence and create guidance for 45 00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:30.729 your sales and marketing team about what's the best next step to close a deal 46 00:03:30.770 --> 00:03:37.729 quicker, to understand where you should put fuel on a marketing campaign or even 47 00:03:37.770 --> 00:03:43.719 potentially identify from a customer success perspective, like where you might be seeing churn. 48 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:49.439 So marketing impact sales and customer success. So we like to say that 49 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:54.280 the the Revenue Intelligence system that we have really allows you to unleash the humans 50 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:58.830 because you don't have to enter data, but also you get to really look 51 00:03:58.830 --> 00:04:03.430 at the full selling capacity of your organization because marketing, sales and customer success. 52 00:04:03.750 --> 00:04:08.710 Everyone impacts with a customer gets to use it and love it, and 53 00:04:08.870 --> 00:04:12.659 so yeah, it's sort of it really does make sense that we're having a 54 00:04:12.740 --> 00:04:16.379 conversation that we're having to day when we talk about the reasons why one would 55 00:04:16.420 --> 00:04:21.019 want to draw a line between marketing and sales, especially in the time when 56 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:26.730 everybody and their mom is talking about sales and marketing alignment. First, I 57 00:04:26.810 --> 00:04:29.769 want to make it clear that we're those two things are not mutually exclusive and 58 00:04:29.889 --> 00:04:32.209 what you're talking about a sort of what you what you hit on just now, 59 00:04:32.449 --> 00:04:36.889 right. So, because in a lot of cases marketing is depending on 60 00:04:38.529 --> 00:04:45.360 sales to enter in that information, then you know they're they're limited to to 61 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:49.480 that as far as the types of insight they can have into what what their 62 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:54.829 efforts are producing, and so we draw the line, not not between the 63 00:04:54.910 --> 00:04:58.870 individuals or in between the teams in any kind of, you know, adversarial 64 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:03.230 way, but just to delineate and make really clear what the results of marketings 65 00:05:03.470 --> 00:05:09.339 efforts are so that they're not having to slow down their process and having these 66 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:13.779 individual conversations with sales people about what happened with lead X, Y and Z, 67 00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:15.980 right, for sure. So, so talk to us a little bit 68 00:05:16.019 --> 00:05:20.490 more about that idea of why it's important to make sure that those things are 69 00:05:20.569 --> 00:05:25.370 are kept separately. Yeah, well, you know, all you need to 70 00:05:25.449 --> 00:05:29.129 do is really look at, you know, sales force. You know, 71 00:05:29.290 --> 00:05:32.370 the top selling crn was invented twenty years ago. I think they just celebrate 72 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:38.040 the twenty year anniversary and if you look at whilst the product has done different 73 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:43.040 things, if you look at how people engage with it, it's still exactly 74 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.839 the same. Nothing has changed. They haven't figured out a way to really 75 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:51.350 get a better way of tracking data, of entering data, of making sure 76 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:59.829 that the crm is actually useful and I would say that whilst crm has helped 77 00:05:59.949 --> 00:06:04.420 to pull some of the organizations together around, okay, should be centralized about, 78 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:10.660 you know, as crm. No one trust it. Every every person 79 00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:14.379 I talked to thinks there's, you know, garbage in, garbage out. 80 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:16.860 And we actually I talked to one of the one of the original sales people 81 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:21.569 at sales force, who use this analogy, which was like you spend millions 82 00:06:21.569 --> 00:06:27.769 of dollars having the potential and the day one you get this brand new new 83 00:06:27.889 --> 00:06:33.240 cast, smell new crm, smell crm, that you switch on and literally 84 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:38.480 an hour later it's full of garbage, it's full of rubbish because you can't 85 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:45.480 rely on people to enter everything that's important, enter every single thing correctly. 86 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.069 And, by the way, you can't even update it. So you there's 87 00:06:48.149 --> 00:06:54.230 that that the basic element of crm is to say, whenever I go there, 88 00:06:54.310 --> 00:06:58.870 I should trust what's there. Yeah, the fact is today, when 89 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:01.699 you rely on a salesperson to do that, the a they don't want to 90 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:05.699 do it and be they're wasting too much time. So we had some we 91 00:07:05.939 --> 00:07:10.779 you know, you talked to any of the analysts or other industry firms like 92 00:07:10.860 --> 00:07:14.939 McKinsey, but we talked to serious and they would say about thirty percent of 93 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:19.370 the Salesperson's time is spent entering data. That's want at least one day a 94 00:07:19.449 --> 00:07:24.610 week where the salesperson's not selling. So that's a problem. How much you 95 00:07:24.689 --> 00:07:29.610 think they actually enter the right data? Well, I would say I think 96 00:07:29.889 --> 00:07:31.959 from from some of the stats in the reports are we've looked at, they 97 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:38.920 we get about twenty percent of accurate business data entered into this CRA. So 98 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.959 you're wasting one day a week. You're missing about eight to percent of the 99 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:46.750 pertinent data. And that is the crux of the problem because now you look 100 00:07:46.790 --> 00:07:53.269 at like a marketer and I'm trying to run campaigns based on all this data. 101 00:07:53.310 --> 00:07:56.470 That's rubbish, that's Gabage, that's not correct, that's out a day. 102 00:07:56.990 --> 00:08:00.420 That maybe now, with some of the privacy rules, noncompliant. Right. 103 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:05.579 So so that's where it begins. And I think you talk about sales 104 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:09.939 and marketing alignment. How do you get sales and marketing alignment? Well, 105 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:13.170 most people would say you would. Okay, let's sit down, let's do 106 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:18.730 account plan, let's figure out like what are they are right, activity is 107 00:08:18.930 --> 00:08:22.850 right kind of content, and those are all good. But after you've had 108 00:08:22.930 --> 00:08:26.839 that meeting, then what what do you do? Well, sales go off 109 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:33.960 and sell and marketing start run running campaigns. The only way to ensure that 110 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:39.480 sales and marketing or having the right conversations after that initial planning is you have 111 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:41.230 to look at the right data and everyone has to be looking at the same 112 00:08:41.269 --> 00:08:46.149 thing and everyone has to rely on it. And that's that. That's really 113 00:08:46.230 --> 00:08:48.750 why I that's why I join where and because I felt like, of course 114 00:08:48.950 --> 00:08:52.269 we need a better way of making sure that we're all capturing and using that 115 00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:56.899 data, and I think that will drive sales and marketing alignment from day one 116 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:01.179 better than that account plant, for sure. For sure, and what you 117 00:09:01.299 --> 00:09:05.179 just described is the number one reason why, as you say, Ai is 118 00:09:05.299 --> 00:09:07.340 no longer a nice to have, because that's that's the way you do it 119 00:09:07.419 --> 00:09:11.090 right. It obviously so we're talking about here, if we're talking about not 120 00:09:11.210 --> 00:09:18.129 relying on people, salespeople, to input this information and we're talking about Ai. 121 00:09:18.769 --> 00:09:20.809 Why do you think it is that that is, for for a lot 122 00:09:20.850 --> 00:09:26.879 of organizations, still treated as a nice to have and not I must have? 123 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:28.240 Well, I think there's a couple of reasons. First of all, 124 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:35.039 people you get like I love Microsoft and Microsoft products and they're an amazing company, 125 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:41.309 but you see ads on TV with common talking about all this potential of 126 00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:45.350 ai and those are cool adds and it's great for Microsoft, but the reality 127 00:09:45.429 --> 00:09:48.110 is people like me at this level and these kind of organizations, we don't 128 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:52.299 really know what we can use AI for today right. So part of it 129 00:09:52.500 --> 00:09:58.059 is there's a little bit of distrust disinformation around, well, what can I 130 00:09:58.100 --> 00:10:01.379 actually do? And that's where I think that's now growing. You know, 131 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:05.059 organized nations, they're starting to see, okay, like we focus specifically on 132 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.889 how you can help customer facing teams. So it's tangible. You can actually 133 00:10:09.929 --> 00:10:11.409 see it, you can see what the product does, you can see in 134 00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:16.929 impact. So I think that's where that is. is starting to become more 135 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:22.399 mainstream and I think what will happen now is organizations will start to see that, 136 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:26.000 okay, I can get real results, because it's not just okay, 137 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:28.320 what do I do with it? It's like yeah, but what will it 138 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:33.639 deliver? And there's any markets will tell you the real way to sell a 139 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:37.029 market of products is show the value, show what it delivers. An Arrow 140 00:10:37.190 --> 00:10:41.950 I and I think some of the reticence around Ai has been I don't see 141 00:10:41.309 --> 00:10:46.350 all that tangible benefit of what ai is going to deliver. And we just 142 00:10:46.429 --> 00:10:48.629 talked about, like there's a bunch of stuff a I can deliver. One 143 00:10:48.669 --> 00:10:52.220 of the things that as we go in and we talk to customers just about 144 00:10:52.419 --> 00:10:58.379 just the fact the two stats I used twenty percent of business data, thirty 145 00:10:58.419 --> 00:11:01.019 percent of a salesperson's time. When we go in and talk to customers and 146 00:11:01.139 --> 00:11:05.850 prospects and we say that you can get that back, you can get the 147 00:11:05.929 --> 00:11:09.409 other eighty percent of data, you can get a day back, a week 148 00:11:09.450 --> 00:11:13.809 for the sales team. WHO's not going to want that? Everyone wants that 149 00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:16.529 right. They're going to say, okay, all right, prove it. 150 00:11:16.690 --> 00:11:20.240 Obviously you have to prove it, but there's a tangible value there and I 151 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:26.360 think as more of that comes forward people will be less worried about like really 152 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:28.440 trying new types of AI and shots. Yeah, I think you're right. 153 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:35.190 I think it's absolutely to do with how AI has been branded within the B 154 00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:39.429 tob space. Right, I mentioned the common commercial and I can think of 155 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:45.669 a bunch of others who. FACEBOOK and Android and you know a lot of 156 00:11:45.710 --> 00:11:50.019 the mobile cares and things like that have really fun and really engaging content. 157 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:56.179 That sort of puts ai at the forefront and leaves sort of at the consumer 158 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:58.100 level. He's us all like, Oh man, what are the possibilities? 159 00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:01.049 It gets us to start thinking about what we could do with it and how 160 00:12:01.090 --> 00:12:05.090 we could use it to save lives, enhance quality of life and all these 161 00:12:05.129 --> 00:12:09.889 things. But in be to be, it's sort of like the most conversations 162 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:11.809 I've heard, just anecdotally, both on this show and with my network, 163 00:12:11.850 --> 00:12:18.279 about ai are about how sales people computer proof ourselves and our careers by staying 164 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:24.240 ahead of a eyes that we're not replaced by box which sells it so short, 165 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.879 sells as so short, and it's really a conversation I hope we can 166 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:33.389 stop having because it misses the point. What what I think that folks would 167 00:12:33.429 --> 00:12:39.710 do well to concern ourselves with, rather than the application, these small applications 168 00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.620 of AI, which is, which is what I think the BBC branding is 169 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:48.500 around, and more about the implications of it and, once we embrace that, 170 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:52.100 start to understand like like what you're talking about, like hey, hey, 171 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:54.580 this is not something that's intended to you, spy on you, or 172 00:12:54.740 --> 00:13:00.009 make that whatever these crazy ideas other people have about it, but it's how 173 00:13:00.169 --> 00:13:03.490 you get the thing that you always wanted, like you said. Who Says 174 00:13:03.570 --> 00:13:07.649 No to that? Yeah, for sure. And there's you know, there 175 00:13:07.690 --> 00:13:13.240 are rules and regulations coming into protectors like Gdpr, like the California Day to 176 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.080 privacy rules. So those are good. They help consumers and other users to 177 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:22.200 know that there is some protection. What I would say is that, and 178 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:26.429 again, no, this doesn't apply to every company, but the way to 179 00:13:26.549 --> 00:13:31.750 look at it is if you if you think about the worst part of your 180 00:13:31.789 --> 00:13:35.470 job and the things that you don't like. Like to me, that's where 181 00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:41.309 AI, that's why AI is getting traction, is because if you can automate 182 00:13:41.429 --> 00:13:46.539 things like not having to enter any data in Crm, that doesn't mean that 183 00:13:46.659 --> 00:13:52.340 someone's taking a salesperson's job. It just means that salesperson can spend more time 184 00:13:52.580 --> 00:13:58.610 working on a roy calculator for a customer or or figuring out the better, 185 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:03.250 better on boarding experience for someone they just sold to. It means the meaningful 186 00:14:03.370 --> 00:14:07.889 stuff, the stuff that takes a little bit more thought process and where you 187 00:14:07.970 --> 00:14:11.240 could whether salesperson is really good, which is that relationship building, that relation. 188 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:16.559 Okay, they get to do that and and I can't imagine any be 189 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:22.679 to be or any selling organization that wouldn't say I wish my sales team could 190 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:28.149 spend more time engaging with the customers and delivering a better personal experience really understanding 191 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:31.149 them. Great, have him do that, but the other stuff that they're 192 00:14:31.149 --> 00:14:35.750 spending a day a week on, let's let's see if we can automate that. 193 00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:39.659 And and one of the point you made around you know, how people 194 00:14:39.940 --> 00:14:45.700 kind of interact with and really trust AI, like we talked to my talk 195 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:48.779 to a bunch of industry analysts and there's one guy I talk to, a 196 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:52.179 guy called Jim Lundy, who was a gardener and he now has his own 197 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:56.809 firm called arrogant research I. When I talk to him about what we did, 198 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:01.289 what we do at People Ai, his response was, oh, it's 199 00:15:01.409 --> 00:15:05.409 real ai, and I said what do you mean by that? And this 200 00:15:05.610 --> 00:15:07.279 is part of the challenge we have is that there are a lot of companies 201 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:13.559 that talk about it and it's just a bunch of rules and tables and you 202 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.399 follow up process, but it's not real ai. And that's the other challenge 203 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.590 we have in the industry is like making sure that when you talk about your 204 00:15:22.549 --> 00:15:26.230 your product and like what does the Ai Do, like let's make sure it's 205 00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:31.870 AI, because if it isn't. That's causing confusion and misinformation across the rest 206 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.940 of the industry because everyone's like, oh, everyone's Ai, everyone's daught aid, 207 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:39.860 Ai, this AI, that right. So that causes more confusion and 208 00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:43.419 mistrust from all of us as well. So we got to get past that 209 00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:48.899 part too. I imagine it a spreadsheet filled with rows and rows of your 210 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:54.929 sales enablement assets. You've devoted two years to organizing this masterpiece, only for 211 00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:58.450 it to stop making sense. This was Chad forbuccoes reality. As the head 212 00:15:58.529 --> 00:16:03.440 of sales enablement at glint, a linkedin company, he's responsible for instilling confidence 213 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:07.200 in his sales reps and arming them with the information they need to do their 214 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:12.039 jobs. However, when his glorious spreadsheet became too complex, he realized he 215 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:17.240 needed a new system. That's when Chad turned to guru. With Guru, 216 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:21.909 the knowledge you need to do your job finds you. Between Guru's Web interface, 217 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.070 slack integration, mobile APP and browser extension. Teams can easily search for 218 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:32.860 verified knowledge without leaving their workflow. No more siload or staled information. Guru 219 00:16:32.980 --> 00:16:37.139 acts as your single source of truth. For Chad this meant glent sales reps 220 00:16:37.179 --> 00:16:41.379 were left feeling more confident doing their jobs. See why leading companies like glint, 221 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:48.129 shopify, spotify, slack and more are using guru for their knowledge management 222 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:53.730 needs. Visit BB growth dot get gurucom to start your thirty day free trial 223 00:16:53.929 --> 00:17:02.679 and discover how knowledge management can empower your revenue teams. Yeah, for sure. 224 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.480 What I hear in that is that every instance of automation, machine learning 225 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:15.680 is not necessarily is not necessarily ai and and this idea of freeing up sales 226 00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:18.069 people, and not just sales people, marketers, to everyone involved in in 227 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:22.269 customer success as well, everyone involved in the customer journey at any point for 228 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:26.029 freeing us to do things that only human beings can do. Yeah, that's 229 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:30.420 that's the point where. That's the that's the goal. Yeah, but to 230 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:32.819 your point, that is and how how folks are looking at it. It 231 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:36.259 is and a lot of the time how folks are actually using the technology. 232 00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:40.059 So I'm glad that you laid that out for us and I'll tell you uniqui 233 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:45.410 like the questions we get from media outlets, from different organizations. That's kind 234 00:17:45.450 --> 00:17:48.329 of one of the first things, like will aren't you taking people's jobs, 235 00:17:48.650 --> 00:17:52.450 like and that's okay. It's okay if you ask the question, but you 236 00:17:52.569 --> 00:17:57.329 know, then you also if we can show how we're helping people be more 237 00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:02.559 productive and more efficient, then they should look at that and then they should 238 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.480 give it a chance. And don't you know, don't tag everything with the 239 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:08.680 same brush. Kind of thing. I will. We talked about sales and 240 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:14.630 marketing alignment. Here's a good example. As a marketer, when I run 241 00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:21.549 campaigns, if I can use different tools, different AI tools, to show 242 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:27.259 me not just what initial names that came into my campaign, but if I 243 00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:34.500 can then see every single sales activity once that campaign came in and you know, 244 00:18:34.579 --> 00:18:38.140 went into the sales phone. If I can see every single sales activity, 245 00:18:38.740 --> 00:18:44.170 who's been called, who's been who's had an email, what meetings are 246 00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:47.970 set up, and then I can show what opportunity has been created. That 247 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:52.569 saves me. Like in the past I would have to follow up into I'd 248 00:18:52.609 --> 00:18:56.119 have to go into each crm record and I'd have to see if they enter 249 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.559 the data. You know they don't enter data. So then what I'd have 250 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.400 to do is call the sales guy and like hey, did you follow up 251 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.359 on this Shell oil deal, like, what have you done? What are 252 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.599 the activities? Do you think the salesperson even wants to have that conversation with 253 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.910 me? No, of course they do, but so automated. Give me 254 00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:17.309 a way of seeing all that. And, by the way, we call 255 00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:21.829 it internally, and my CEO of this it calls it a leaky boocket. 256 00:19:22.390 --> 00:19:25.740 Right, so leaky funnel, leaky books, the same thing. So the 257 00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:32.420 idea of that is if I can minimize the fall out of every as much 258 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:36.339 as possible. You can never completely do it, but if I can minimize 259 00:19:36.380 --> 00:19:41.970 suspects and MQL's that fall out by at least showing that some of them haven't 260 00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:45.970 been followed upon, like that's that is my nirvana, because then I don't 261 00:19:47.210 --> 00:19:49.650 I can honestly say no, the sales teams have followed up. So maybe 262 00:19:49.690 --> 00:19:53.319 it's something with the content or maybe it's not the right channel, but then 263 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:57.200 at least it becomes less about or well, sales are not falling up on 264 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.960 all these leads their fall because that is what we're trying to get away from 265 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:04.720 as an enterprise and organized tion. Like it's not sales fault, it's not 266 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.910 marketings fault, but let's at least be looking at the same data yeah, 267 00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:11.990 it takes away a lot of the the worried anxiety, the fear of failure 268 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:15.150 here, because once you get yourself to a mental space where you understand it, 269 00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:18.109 no matter what happens with this campaign, because we have the kind of 270 00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:22.539 insight that you're talking about, the AI gives us is all data points, 271 00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:26.299 it's all information we can use, and so there's no reason to shrink away 272 00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:32.539 from that. I as as uncomfortable and, you know, as shameful as 273 00:20:32.579 --> 00:20:37.170 nudity can be, can be liberating as well. So so so to be 274 00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:41.450 closed in that kind of way. You know that it's human to want to 275 00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:44.690 shrink away from it, but at the end of the day, once you 276 00:20:44.930 --> 00:20:47.009 that's something I believe in. A lot of folks say, you know, 277 00:20:47.089 --> 00:20:48.529 truth hurts. I tell you, I stayed off time. Troop is liberating. 278 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:55.119 So and you would. I'm so excited about my organization or other organizations, 279 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.839 what we all stand to gain once we accept that there's going to be 280 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:04.190 that discomfort in exposing those, you know, leaks in the bucket and then 281 00:21:04.910 --> 00:21:08.829 using what we have now in a smart way to get past that, to 282 00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:14.190 break through that. I mean you're right, and no sale as a marketing 283 00:21:14.309 --> 00:21:18.740 person wants to be naked in front of the other organization and really be stripped 284 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:22.940 down a like like Oh, you can really see what I have and haven't 285 00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:26.700 done. So that's a really good analogy wout. You know, I think 286 00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:30.700 that we do get questions from prospects as we're talking about, like well, 287 00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:34.769 well, when you're doing this and you and you understand all the sales activities, 288 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:40.529 don't you get salespeople who are like, I don't want this. What's 289 00:21:40.529 --> 00:21:44.369 going on? Like, I don't want people knowing what I'm up to? 290 00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:47.720 Yeah, of course we do. But you know what, those are the 291 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:53.960 people who are probably sandbagging, who are probably not working that hand and they 292 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.119 don't really want to have that exposed. Yeah, and the progress and they 293 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.470 know it and they know it right. I mean, let's talk about let's 294 00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:07.789 talk about one of the quintessential, quintessential parts of the sales process, forecasting. 295 00:22:08.109 --> 00:22:11.869 Forecasting is essentially a book. It's a bug in the system because you 296 00:22:12.029 --> 00:22:17.579 basically relying on someone that says, yeah, I think this is here and 297 00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:21.259 we've had a meeting, but they don't track all that data. The Not 298 00:22:21.380 --> 00:22:23.779 who they've met with or what was setting the meeting. So then that gets 299 00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:29.099 rolled up and a fancy tool that shows like what you're going to close and 300 00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:33.769 at the end of the quarter you hit sixty percent and everyone goes, oh 301 00:22:33.890 --> 00:22:37.130 well, we miss that. You're right, we did miss that because you're 302 00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:41.410 still relying on this salesperson to say I think this is going to happen. 303 00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:45.799 Now, we're not talking about removing that, but wouldn't it be useful to 304 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.200 be able to add something that said, okay, I can show you in 305 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:55.079 the sales process, based on every deal you've ever closed within the organization, 306 00:22:55.880 --> 00:23:00.269 typically you need these types of people and these activities to move this forward. 307 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:07.269 Wouldn't the sales lead of benefit from being able to call the sales rep and 308 00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:11.789 say, Hey, typically we have a CFO at stage five of these types 309 00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:15.460 of deals? You don't have a CFO in your deal right now, but 310 00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:21.140 you're calling it to closing for weeks. It's that really true? HMM, 311 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:25.019 like, what power? What power you have without information? And like, 312 00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.089 I mean the sales post is like, okay, you might be right, 313 00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:32.329 but what is it? Is An enterprise, like get the book out of 314 00:23:32.369 --> 00:23:34.849 forecasting. Let's add some real quality data to it too. I'm to tell 315 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:37.690 you this, what this reminds me of, and then we better get to 316 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:38.769 the next second, because I could just do this all day. But so, 317 00:23:38.930 --> 00:23:41.440 when I was little, my Dad, my dad likes to throw like 318 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:47.680 parties and invite friends over and drink beers and play spades. Right, you 319 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:52.240 play spade, you bid right. Right. So, so, without without 320 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.430 ai and without that insight, right, it's like the sales person forecasting. 321 00:23:56.869 --> 00:24:00.509 The sales person say, I don't know, I got to in a possible 322 00:24:00.670 --> 00:24:03.509 right. They're talking about what they can do based on only what they can 323 00:24:03.549 --> 00:24:07.750 see in their own hands. Right. When we make a broader picture of 324 00:24:07.869 --> 00:24:11.500 that and we add into the mix this ai, that's like when my days 325 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:15.819 to have me walk around the table and with the other people's hands so that 326 00:24:15.980 --> 00:24:19.579 he could say that's something different, so that he could say what he what 327 00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:23.890 he will, lets he had insight into what had been played or what was 328 00:24:23.970 --> 00:24:26.970 the what was more likely to happen. Then not right, because part of 329 00:24:27.049 --> 00:24:32.569 what he's betting, always forecasting is based on well, I have, you 330 00:24:32.690 --> 00:24:34.450 know, this joker or whatever. Right, but if he doesn't know that 331 00:24:34.609 --> 00:24:37.640 this other person, typically that don't work. You know, I'm saying, 332 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.720 like he doesn't. If he has this in his hand, then it's not 333 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.759 likely that you're going to get what you think you're going to get. So 334 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.119 it's that extra level of him sight that you made me sort of picture there 335 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:55.710 when you when you told that story. Like the again, let's let's pull 336 00:24:55.789 --> 00:24:57.630 let's come back to what the initial concept of what a I can do here. 337 00:24:57.829 --> 00:25:03.029 Is it not to say, Oh, it's not to say all salespeople 338 00:25:03.029 --> 00:25:06.869 alling when they forecast. Of course not. And, by the way, 339 00:25:07.029 --> 00:25:10.380 sales is still one of the hardest jobs to do, the pressure that you 340 00:25:10.460 --> 00:25:11.819 know the things you have to do. So I get that and I'm on 341 00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:17.180 board with it. But if you, if you had the opportunity to have 342 00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:22.210 a level of data and intelligence underneath it that could make you feel more comfortable 343 00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:25.809 and more secure in it. That's what we're talking about. It's not to 344 00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:30.529 say you don't need to forecast, but it's to say, is that the 345 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:33.930 measure of whether you're going to hit the quarter, or is there some other 346 00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:38.720 way of measuring through contact, activity and engagement? Is there another way of 347 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.319 saying, do we really feel confident that this is going to close right? 348 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. So, like I said, 349 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:49.349 it's a there's several episodes with which I could fill a conversation with you, 350 00:25:49.470 --> 00:25:53.829 because so passionate about this and so knowledgeable about it and, you know, 351 00:25:53.990 --> 00:25:57.910 frankly, just so much fun to talk to. Good but but now 352 00:25:59.150 --> 00:26:00.750 now that on this subject, that I have successfully picked your brain and seeing 353 00:26:00.789 --> 00:26:03.029 what I could get out of it, and it's time for you to tell 354 00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:07.220 us about what you're putting in it. So talk to us about a a 355 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:11.180 learning resource that you've engaged with here recently that is informing your approach, that 356 00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:15.059 she's got you excited these days. Well, I would tell you I have. 357 00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.849 I have two things to mention. The first one when I joined the 358 00:26:18.970 --> 00:26:27.089 company I've found and CEO recommends you read the hard thing about hot things by 359 00:26:27.170 --> 00:26:32.369 Ben Horowitz, so that was that's his his book is about being a founder. 360 00:26:32.849 --> 00:26:37.440 It's small companies and is about everything that is terrifying about being there, 361 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.559 about lack of sleep and all that kind of think it's a brilliant book and 362 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.039 obviously you know and resent horrow, it's have become one of the biggest investment 363 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.549 firms in the valley. So that I would say I learned a lot going 364 00:26:49.589 --> 00:26:53.829 into a small company like don't freak out when things don't go your way. 365 00:26:55.230 --> 00:26:59.029 Really, you know, this is normal. So that's something that I learned. 366 00:26:59.430 --> 00:27:02.940 And then another book that we're all trying to read internally is a book 367 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:07.140 called who, and I took for the life of me, I don't remember 368 00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:11.380 the name of the author right now, but the WHO book is around recruiting 369 00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:18.809 talent and in the bay area in tech, hiring and retaining talent is one 370 00:27:18.930 --> 00:27:23.410 of it, if not the hardest things to do. There are so many 371 00:27:23.490 --> 00:27:27.210 opportunities, there's so many different companies, there's so many big companies. Now 372 00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:32.160 you've got the facebook and Google and sales force thing, like they just throw 373 00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:37.079 money at people. So the WHO book is around the best way to recruit 374 00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:45.829 the right people and it's interesting because I've always considered myself pretty good at judging 375 00:27:45.990 --> 00:27:49.910 people and recruiting and, you know, managing talent. But there's just reading 376 00:27:51.029 --> 00:27:56.309 through that book around have certain types of questions. How you ask them? 377 00:27:56.509 --> 00:28:00.539 How do identify things like culture fit? What I learned was some of the 378 00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:03.579 things that I've been doing, like I hadn't been pushing hard enough and the 379 00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:08.859 mistakes that I've made over the last few years in hiring. That book helped 380 00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:15.130 me identify them. So if you are in a recruiting role, you don't 381 00:28:15.170 --> 00:28:18.490 have to be CEO CMOC Arrow, but if you're a recruit, if you're 382 00:28:18.529 --> 00:28:23.529 if you're looking to hire people and you maybe have had some challenges or maybe 383 00:28:23.529 --> 00:28:27.119 if few mistakes or whatever, I would recommend that book hands down, because 384 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:32.160 I learned so much about improving my own process and I realize I may think 385 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.440 I'm good, but we all have things to learn every once in a while. 386 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:38.240 So I'd highly recommend that. Nice it did might also be a good 387 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:42.670 hack. I mean, if you're looking for opportunities, this is what folks 388 00:28:42.710 --> 00:28:47.230 who are recruiting and hiring are reading. You would do well to make sure 389 00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:49.829 solfaware. So thank you for that and getting us that tiny bit of insight 390 00:28:51.630 --> 00:28:53.910 into to what's moving you these days. Like me, I know that everybody 391 00:28:53.950 --> 00:28:57.299 listening has become a fast fan of yours and they're going to want to keep 392 00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:00.700 up with you. So tell us, stale, how people can connect with 393 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:06.380 you. Well, so I'm always hanging around linkedin trying to post things that 394 00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:08.660 I think a useful so I'm on Linkedin, I have a twitter handle. 395 00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:14.930 It's I won't explain why, but it's Marina Das, a long story. 396 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:21.089 Won't go into it. So I'm generally on and around that and you know 397 00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:25.200 I'm hoping, as this company keeps growing, that you'll see me at industry 398 00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:29.599 conferences and other places like that. Well, at the very least, will 399 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:30.640 probably see you on the show again because, like I said, this was 400 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.920 fun and I got more questions for you. You're great. I appreciate the 401 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:41.230 time. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 402 00:29:41.349 --> 00:29:45.670 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's where we've 403 00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:49.029 started. The BEDB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down 404 00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:53.819 our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at 405 00:29:53.859 --> 00:30:00.140 Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. That sweet fish Mediacom Big Three
