1149: 3 Ways Product Marketers Are Your Company's Secret Weapon w/ Eric Keating

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.200 Are you trying to establish your brand as a thought leader? Start a PODCAST, 2 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:09.750 invite industry experts to be guests on your show and watch your brand become 3 00:00:09.789 --> 00:00:15.750 the prime resource for decision makers in your industry. Learn more at sweetphish MEDIACOM. 4 00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:24.780 You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. 5 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:28.859 We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon 6 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:33.219 Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's 7 00:00:33.299 --> 00:00:37.850 because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of 8 00:00:37.929 --> 00:00:42.490 our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, 9 00:00:42.530 --> 00:00:47.049 they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BTB companies in the 10 00:00:47.130 --> 00:00:50.600 world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, 11 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.479 a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts 12 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.320 of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear 13 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:00.960 stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and 14 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:06.030 downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting 15 00:01:06.629 --> 00:01:15.069 well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to be tob growth 16 00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:19.099 at am your host for today's episode, Nikki Ivy, with sweet fish media. 17 00:01:19.420 --> 00:01:23.980 Guys, I've got with me today Eric Keating, who is vice president 18 00:01:23.019 --> 00:01:26.939 of marketing for APP Chuse Eric. How you doing today? I'm doing great, 19 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:30.739 Nikki. How are you? I am well, so excited to dig 20 00:01:30.819 --> 00:01:34.930 into this with you today. We don't ever really talk about just purely product 21 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:38.290 marketing on the show today and you've got some some ideas to dig into with 22 00:01:38.450 --> 00:01:42.810 us. But before we get to that, I would love it if you 23 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:46.170 would just give us a little bit of background on your cell phone what you 24 00:01:46.250 --> 00:01:49.200 and the folks that acques are up to these days. Yeah, sure, 25 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:51.680 happy to do it. So, yeah, so I've been in marketing for 26 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:56.120 a little over fifteen years now, primarily sass products and, you know, 27 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.510 startup SMB's companies like zoom into compedecom and because, as in those types of 28 00:02:00.510 --> 00:02:05.030 companies, I grew up as a generalist, even though I had a little 29 00:02:05.030 --> 00:02:08.750 bit extra of a focus on demand generation. But Anyway, so now I'm 30 00:02:09.150 --> 00:02:14.270 hanging up marketing at appques and you know, what a uses is doing is 31 00:02:14.310 --> 00:02:16.740 helping Sass with us has from rapid growth start ups all the way to the 32 00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:23.259 fortune five hundred grow by meeting and exceeding the expectations of today's software users. 33 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:28.379 It really what we've heard again and again is that those user expectations have changed 34 00:02:28.460 --> 00:02:31.810 pretty dramatically over the last few years ten years, probably influenced by a lot 35 00:02:31.849 --> 00:02:38.409 of their consumer experiences. They really just want friction lest, hyper personalized self 36 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:44.090 service experiences and to Aq's is helping to deliver on those by giving the ability 37 00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:49.000 to on board new users, drive product adoption, collect feedback, etc. 38 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.000 All inside of your product itself, without having to rely on on Dev resources. 39 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:58.120 And so that's really one of the reasons I'm so passionate about product marketing. 40 00:02:59.150 --> 00:03:01.830 I think this, this business model, is digital transformation. We are 41 00:03:01.870 --> 00:03:08.110 so much about the product led being a big topic these days. You know, 42 00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:13.379 products and product experience is really the greatest lever for growth and a lot 43 00:03:13.379 --> 00:03:15.620 of SASS businesses and product marketing as a huge role of playing that. It 44 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:19.539 does it doesn't. I can't wait to you what, to hear more about 45 00:03:19.539 --> 00:03:22.780 it. Why do you think it is? I know in your network and 46 00:03:23.219 --> 00:03:28.210 certainly in mind, that we're starting to hear more folks talk about product marketing. 47 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:30.210 You had great question. I think there are a lot of reasons for 48 00:03:30.289 --> 00:03:35.050 that. You know, before I before we got on the call, I 49 00:03:35.169 --> 00:03:38.330 was looking at Google trends and found that over the last ten years or so, 50 00:03:39.169 --> 00:03:45.400 interest in the topic is grown by five hundred percent. I have trouble 51 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:50.759 interpreting Google trend sometimes, but you know, looking at looking at what interests 52 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.520 looked like ten years ago compared to now, it's it's it's incredible how much 53 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:00.030 the interest is grown. And so I think answer your question like what's what's 54 00:04:00.030 --> 00:04:02.270 driving as or why we hear more and more, I think it really comes 55 00:04:02.310 --> 00:04:06.870 down to the rise of like cloud delivery and deployment. So bear with me 56 00:04:06.949 --> 00:04:10.259 a little bit. That's maybe a little bit of a stretch to start, 57 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:13.460 but so Mary Meeker, a lot of people know her, puts out this 58 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:16.660 Internet trends report every year, and the report that came out this year showing 59 00:04:17.259 --> 00:04:21.259 that cloud services, like aws and and others in their space, is the 60 00:04:21.339 --> 00:04:26.689 category in general is growing by fifty percent coarter over quarter, and I think 61 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:31.290 that it's really the rise of this delivery mechanism that's not only made it easier 62 00:04:31.569 --> 00:04:36.529 than ever to spin up new technology, but also it's really specifically enabling the 63 00:04:36.970 --> 00:04:42.160 SASS business model. And so in this world I think there's you're seeing more 64 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:46.360 and more competition. Your markets are incredibly crowded, and so that the way 65 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:51.480 that your position and sell your product are. That's that's more important than ever. 66 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:56.029 You've got to find ways to stand out and really connect with your audience. 67 00:04:56.829 --> 00:04:59.670 And I think the other thing is that with so many options up there, 68 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.269 you know, fires have so many choices. So it's it often comes 69 00:05:02.310 --> 00:05:08.339 down to the customer experience and in Sasmils that kind of largely driven by the 70 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:13.779 product experience. That ends up being the driver of business growth and driving product 71 00:05:13.779 --> 00:05:18.500 adoption. Like I said, meeting those expectations, creating advocates for your product 72 00:05:18.620 --> 00:05:25.329 and your brand. Word of mouth is is often cited as more important than 73 00:05:25.329 --> 00:05:29.689 any kind of you know, demand Gen programs you can run, and I 74 00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:32.009 a get in like just to jump back to that meeker report. There's one 75 00:05:32.050 --> 00:05:36.279 of the slides she has in those just a simple formula which is as effective 76 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:44.959 and efficient. Marketing equals one's own product plus happy customers plus recommendations. Right. 77 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.680 So she's talking about marketing really being driven by the product experience, Dariens, 78 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:53.870 and and, you know, advocacy in your customer base, right, 79 00:05:54.189 --> 00:05:56.670 and that's where you gave us a lot there. So I'm like you, 80 00:05:56.750 --> 00:06:00.790 I don't really have a the easiest time reading Google friends, but five hundred 81 00:06:00.829 --> 00:06:04.939 percent growth of the interest is pretty unambiguous, right. Um and, and 82 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:09.939 for the reasons that you gave, that makes so much sense in terms of 83 00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:15.459 understanding the power of word of mouth and the relationship with it and and products 84 00:06:15.660 --> 00:06:21.370 and understanding what we have as a tool in terms of the cloud delivery mechanism 85 00:06:21.850 --> 00:06:27.209 that that's available today. But to be clear, when we talk about product 86 00:06:27.209 --> 00:06:30.490 marketing, we're not talking about product management and we're not talking about just marketing. 87 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:32.639 What are we talking about, Eric Fella? What exactly is product marketing? 88 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:35.879 What is product marketing? That is a great question and you know, 89 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:42.839 I think, I think that the lack of clarity around answering that question is 90 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:46.750 probably another reason why there's so much interest, especially on search engines. So 91 00:06:46.870 --> 00:06:49.110 you know, when you do search a term like what is product marking, 92 00:06:49.149 --> 00:06:54.550 you get a very diverse set of definitions. There's there's not a ton of 93 00:06:54.589 --> 00:06:59.189 the uniformity. In my own personal experience role of marketing. Sorry, roll 94 00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:01.459 with product marketing. You know, the role of the peers that I've had, 95 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:05.139 when I've had them, has varied pretty widely as well. As seen 96 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:13.100 them focused on anything from positioning to competitive intelligence, to sales enablement to more 97 00:07:13.139 --> 00:07:16.170 like customer marketing, telling their stories, etc. But I think you know, 98 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:21.050 at its core, I think the most important role of product marketing and 99 00:07:21.250 --> 00:07:27.930 probably the most consistent across organizations is that product marketers need to have a deep 100 00:07:27.970 --> 00:07:32.199 understanding of the customer, a deep understanding of the market and the competition and 101 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:36.920 a deep understanding of their product and and it's the responsibility of the product marketer 102 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:42.800 to ensure that sales, marketing product as well as other teams in the organization, 103 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:47.750 are leveraging that understanding, that intelligence to optimize their respective functions. I 104 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:53.870 think product marketing is offen the bridge between these functional units, help drive and 105 00:07:54.029 --> 00:07:58.579 to find go to market strategy, prioritized road map. And you know, 106 00:07:58.660 --> 00:08:01.939 I think the probably the main reason why there's so much confusion about it is 107 00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:07.060 because it depends on the company. Each company has unique needs right depending on 108 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:13.009 what states are at market, they're in their business model, even like what 109 00:08:13.129 --> 00:08:18.370 are their current burning challenges, right, and so, depending depending on what 110 00:08:18.730 --> 00:08:22.810 that business needs at that time, a product marketer can use that core understanding 111 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:28.040 and their their role with being the bridge between departments to do anything from and 112 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:33.799 able to sales team with, you know, like I said, competitive intelligence, 113 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:39.679 good product positioning, etcetera. Pricing and packaging can be a huge role 114 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:45.309 identifying, showcasing customer stories and wins driving product adoption. Like I said that 115 00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:50.070 the tactics can vary, but they're all rooted in this need to have a 116 00:08:50.190 --> 00:08:54.110 deep understanding of the customer, the market and the product, right, and 117 00:08:54.190 --> 00:09:01.899 then, with that understanding, the skill to communicate it internally and externally. 118 00:09:03.220 --> 00:09:07.139 That's a lot. Like I was, I was nearly exhausted just listening to 119 00:09:07.220 --> 00:09:11.370 you talk about all of the things that this individual is is, you know, 120 00:09:11.889 --> 00:09:16.610 is responsible for in all of the different things that they, like I 121 00:09:16.809 --> 00:09:20.289 mentioned, not only have to know how to understand, but have to know 122 00:09:20.409 --> 00:09:24.679 how to explain and then put into campaigns, both internal and external, to 123 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.360 this sort of pull this whole thing together and be a bridge, like you 124 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:35.159 talked about. So it sounds like a unique individual with the particular set of 125 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:41.470 skills that is a successful product marketer talk to us about what what those skills 126 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:46.149 and traits and background look like to be successful at product marketing? Yeah, 127 00:09:46.549 --> 00:09:52.190 you know, and I'd say hopefully there's in a company with that's established. 128 00:09:52.309 --> 00:09:54.700 There's there's more than one product markers. Hopefully all of this is not falling 129 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.860 on an individual. I think we're seeing more and more investment in the function 130 00:09:58.940 --> 00:10:03.379 right people are identifying how how important have a role the function can play. 131 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:07.690 But when I think about like the most important skill sets to have, I 132 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:11.210 think first and foremost kind of general a role, but I think it's like 133 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:18.809 a love of people and and like a special interest in understanding their motivations and 134 00:10:18.009 --> 00:10:22.039 desires etc. You know, product market should be talking to customers all the 135 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.960 time, nonstop. They, like I said, they're responsible for having to 136 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.240 seep understanding of them. They need to be immersed in the world of their 137 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.029 customers. They've got to be talking to sales cus the poor teams about what 138 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:39.029 are the most common questions you hear on the call, on a call or 139 00:10:39.070 --> 00:10:43.830 in your you know, your support ticket to etc. They've got to be 140 00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:48.629 participating in in communities, actively involved in the market, tending events, meet 141 00:10:48.669 --> 00:10:54.179 up etc. And then I think the other course skill which is very much 142 00:10:54.259 --> 00:10:58.940 related to that first one, you know, of wanting to understand and relate 143 00:10:58.019 --> 00:11:05.289 to people, which is having a knack for collaboration and building influence, coordination, 144 00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:09.490 etc. Like. So you know, as I mentioned before, they're 145 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:11.929 they're kind of the glue and the bridge between a lot of different departments and 146 00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:16.450 it's really their job to ensure that every team is kind of rowing in the 147 00:11:16.450 --> 00:11:20.399 same direction, based on the same fundamental understanding of the customer, of the 148 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:24.320 products in the in the market. And so to do that takes often take 149 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.720 a lot of buy it like get generating by and across those teams right, 150 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.240 and everybody has different opinions and everybody's looking at the world through their own functional 151 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:37.750 Lens, and so take somebody to be able to understand what everybody's trying to 152 00:11:37.870 --> 00:11:43.509 achieve, both internally and externally, and then and make sure that you know 153 00:11:43.669 --> 00:11:46.700 people are really bought into what they're doing and that that you know it's all 154 00:11:46.899 --> 00:11:52.620 it's all driven empowered by the same, same fundamental understanding. So I think, 155 00:11:52.779 --> 00:11:54.500 yeah, just to recap, it's it's this love for people, in 156 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:58.980 this wanting to understand them, and then and being able to influence and and 157 00:11:58.620 --> 00:12:03.049 generate by and across across different groups, and that's pretty high level, right. 158 00:12:03.049 --> 00:12:05.049 Like, there's also skills, like you want to be able to do 159 00:12:05.210 --> 00:12:09.409 research. You want to be skilled at research. You want to be skilled 160 00:12:09.409 --> 00:12:13.090 at a positioning. You want to have experience with pricing and packaging. Sure, 161 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.559 but I think at its core those are some of the fundamental skills or 162 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:22.039 core competencies I'd look for in a solid product marketer. What's so great about 163 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.399 the way that you laid that out as that it starts with love, right. 164 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.960 It starts with a love for and a love of the people involved, 165 00:12:30.029 --> 00:12:33.029 in a passion for what you're doing. Because, listen, if you don't 166 00:12:33.070 --> 00:12:37.190 have that with with all these other facets that this individual or that this group 167 00:12:37.230 --> 00:12:43.509 is responsible for doing, pretty tough to pull that off unless you love it, 168 00:12:43.669 --> 00:12:46.700 unless you're passionate about it. So I love that that's where, yeah, 169 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:50.299 where you started. We talked about the skill set totally and that that 170 00:12:50.379 --> 00:12:52.580 you a pertains the product marking. But also, when I think about, 171 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:54.580 like going back to college in high school, the classes that I loved, 172 00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:58.850 I did really well, and the classes that I didn't care about, the 173 00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:01.610 topics I did not do well, and so I'm lucky to have found something 174 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:07.129 in my career that I really love doing, because turned out I'm better at 175 00:13:07.169 --> 00:13:11.009 doing things that I love. You, what did it? What is this? 176 00:13:11.169 --> 00:13:13.919 Look at that. No, you're so freaching to the choir. We 177 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.440 the same or what? So I got a lot of I went to school 178 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:20.799 for broadcastering. Wis M right, it's technically a communication, fine arts and 179 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.399 media degree. Right, I got a lot of people give me a hard 180 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.559 time. I. What are you going to do with that degree? And 181 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:28.470 I was like look, man, this is what I love, is what 182 00:13:28.549 --> 00:13:31.429 I love, and I'm I to end up being lucky where I'm doing something 183 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:35.870 that's sort of relates to that or I'm using that. But I didn't care. 184 00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:39.029 I was like look, yeah, yeah, to your point, if 185 00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:41.980 I, if I were studying something, I my sister's a nurse, God 186 00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:46.019 bless or. She loves it, but I would have failed at that because 187 00:13:46.580 --> 00:13:50.700 I'm not. I don't have what she has in terms of the passion for 188 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:54.899 that, for that discipline for that, for that role. So you're absolutely 189 00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:58.730 right. And so, as we've done in this conversation and as, as 190 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:03.610 you know, we're doing in in the industry. The more we understand product 191 00:14:03.690 --> 00:14:07.409 marketing and how to how important it is and how to leverage it, then 192 00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:13.919 the more we start to identify what the experience and skill set needs to be 193 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:18.480 of the folks who who are practitioners of it, then we need to understand 194 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.720 what happens next. Right. So, so talk about what the future looks 195 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:28.350 like, future of business looks like with the focus on product marketing. Okay, 196 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.389 so I'll run my crystal ball here. I think that, without a 197 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:35.909 doubt, we are going to continue to see an investment in product marketing. 198 00:14:35.350 --> 00:14:41.539 I think that it is becoming very clear across industries and business models that product 199 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:46.899 marketing can be a real differentiator for your company, if your for your brand, 200 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:52.659 and you know, a focus on that, that product experience, the 201 00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:56.529 customer experience. Overall. Yeah, I think there's we're coming to a point 202 00:14:56.570 --> 00:15:01.090 of consensus on that topic and so yeah, continued investment, for sure. 203 00:15:01.649 --> 00:15:05.730 But when I think about the future of, you know, this product marketing 204 00:15:05.809 --> 00:15:13.519 area, I'm really interested in exploring how product organizations and marketing organizations are are 205 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.720 going to converge. I expect them to start converging like we're already starting to 206 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:22.269 see the signs like product marketing might be a leading indicator of that in the 207 00:15:22.629 --> 00:15:26.470 staff business model, in product led business models. Like I said, that 208 00:15:26.669 --> 00:15:33.070 product experience is largely becoming the main marketing vehicles. So so for product and 209 00:15:33.149 --> 00:15:37.299 marketing, for there to be a gap between the organizations is starting to seem 210 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:41.059 like it might be a challenge for companies now and in the future. So 211 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:45.580 yeah, I think you know, just continuing to keep an eye on what 212 00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:52.129 are the trends across marketing and product? Our product teams reporting into CMOS or 213 00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:54.929 vice versa? Are we going to steep see new titles start to pop up? 214 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:58.169 Like one new title that started to pop up over the last few years 215 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:03.610 is a growth PM, so a product manager who's focused on growth, which 216 00:16:03.649 --> 00:16:07.960 is largely thinking about how do we get more people to adopt the product, 217 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:14.360 see value, retain more users, etc. So yeah, that's that's what 218 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:18.629 I'm most excited about keeping eye on. I love it and I think you 219 00:16:18.669 --> 00:16:22.070 did such a good job of laying out the foundation of this for us and 220 00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:26.990 giving us a really well rounded idea of what product marketing is, who product 221 00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:33.179 marketers are and what product marketing will be in context of what we all do 222 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:37.220 every day. So now that I have successfully Eric picked your brain and seeing 223 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:38.899 what I could get out of it, is time for you to tell us 224 00:16:38.899 --> 00:16:42.220 about what you're putting in it. So talk to us about a learning resource 225 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:47.409 that you engage with that has, you know, is informing your approach, 226 00:16:47.610 --> 00:16:51.090 or she just that you excited these days? HMM, okay, yeah, 227 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:55.809 so learning resource. So what I'm really excited about learning right now, and 228 00:16:55.970 --> 00:16:59.250 this maybe even sound repetitive because I've been talking about this so much, but 229 00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:04.759 as somebody who has grown up in marketing and who runs a marketing team right 230 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:11.680 now and works with product organization as peers and sees this future of marketing and 231 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:17.349 product becoming closer and closer and maybe even converging at some point, I think 232 00:17:17.390 --> 00:17:21.910 it's really important for me to start learning about product management, the skills it 233 00:17:21.950 --> 00:17:25.029 takes to be a product manager. What are my gaps when it comes to 234 00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:30.420 understanding how product organizations works? So one thing beyond just starting to read more 235 00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:36.420 about it, I've actually started signing up for classes on product management. You 236 00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:40.819 know, there's a I don't know how broadly this this company exists, but 237 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:45.329 General Assembly is a company and at least has offices in Boston where I started 238 00:17:45.369 --> 00:17:48.849 signing up for classes on product management. So, yeah, I think that's 239 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:55.769 probably the Harry I'd focus on here, is just continuing my education in product 240 00:17:55.809 --> 00:18:00.000 management and hopefully that puts me in a better position to be both you, 241 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.200 so that I can relate to the product organization and and potentially even that that 242 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.279 skill set being valuable in the future and in my own day to day yeah, 243 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.319 I mean, even if it's I think it's naturally going to be those 244 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.670 things. And what else I think you stand to gain, right as just 245 00:18:15.869 --> 00:18:19.349 like a human when you're learning something and finding the gaps, is just you 246 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:26.069 know, more about yourself and maybe discovering whole new things that you have a 247 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:29.019 love and a passion for. I love that answer. It's one of my 248 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:33.579 favorites, just to hold the idea of continuing education. Yes, for the 249 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:38.220 sake of pursuing whatever you're pursuing in your career, but more so for the 250 00:18:38.299 --> 00:18:42.250 sake of just like wanting to know more about this thing that you spend so 251 00:18:42.289 --> 00:18:45.130 much of your time doing. Yeah, so I love it and I know 252 00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:48.769 Erica, just like me, every listening, has become fast fans of yours 253 00:18:48.930 --> 00:18:52.930 and they're going to want to keep up with you. So let's tell us. 254 00:18:52.170 --> 00:18:57.279 Books can too. Cell Post can connect with you. Yeah, so 255 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.799 I'm most active on Linkedin. It's probably best place to communicate with me. 256 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:06.759 Yeah, I think my it's just are Keating, but you know, obviously 257 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.029 you can just search, search my name and I should come up and like, 258 00:19:10.549 --> 00:19:12.309 like Nicki said, I'm at APP q. So Rick Keating, APP 259 00:19:12.309 --> 00:19:15.990 Q, you'll find me pretty easily. Good stuff, man. Now I'll 260 00:19:15.069 --> 00:19:19.029 have to have you back on to talk about what you've learned in product management 261 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:22.029 already number of other things. This has been so much fun. I'm glad 262 00:19:22.069 --> 00:19:25.900 to took the time to come and talk to us to day. We'll have 263 00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:27.380 to have you again. Thanks so much, Eric than thanks so much for 264 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:33.420 having me. Really appreciate it. Hey, everybody, logan with sweet fish 265 00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:37.099 here. If you're a regular listener of BB growth, you know that I'm 266 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:40.049 one of the cohosts of this show, but you may not know that I 267 00:19:40.089 --> 00:19:42.650 also head up the sales team here at sweetfish. So for those of you 268 00:19:42.849 --> 00:19:47.369 in sales or sales offs, I wanted to take a second to share something 269 00:19:47.410 --> 00:19:52.089 that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead Iq 270 00:19:52.329 --> 00:19:56.359 for the past few months and what used to take us four hours gathering contact 271 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.039 data now takes us only one, or seventy five percent more efficient. We're 272 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:06.480 able to move faster without bound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier 273 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:10.430 than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead Iq as well. 274 00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:17.150 You can check them out at lead iqcom. That's Elle a d iqcom.