Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.519 Are you struggling to come up with original content weekend and week out? Start 2 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:09.189 a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care 3 00:00:09.230 --> 00:00:14.830 about most and never run out of content ideas again. Learn more at sweetphish 4 00:00:14.910 --> 00:00:23.940 MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB 5 00:00:24.059 --> 00:00:28.179 leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and 6 00:00:28.219 --> 00:00:32.020 Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 7 00:00:32.659 --> 00:00:37.450 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most 8 00:00:37.490 --> 00:00:41.570 of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing 9 00:00:41.649 --> 00:00:46.649 strategy, they're experimenting with tactics. They're building the fastest growing BTB companies in 10 00:00:46.689 --> 00:00:49.969 the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish 11 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:53.479 media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the 12 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.439 CO hosts of the show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, 13 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.280 you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the 14 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.549 ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. 15 00:01:04.189 --> 00:01:15.629 Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to be 16 00:01:15.750 --> 00:01:19.540 tob grow. I'm your host for today's episode, Travis King At sweetfish media. 17 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:23.939 I'm doin today by Kevin Knight, who is the VP of marketing at 18 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.780 be to hell. Welcome to the show, Kevin. Thank Stravius. Appreciate 19 00:01:29.019 --> 00:01:30.819 me, of course, so excited to, you know, chat with you 20 00:01:32.099 --> 00:01:38.890 about all the different ways that marketers can start to look at their targets more 21 00:01:38.969 --> 00:01:42.849 like people. And so today you're going to be sharing a couple of different 22 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:49.439 ways that marketers can, you know, remove this target based thinking, and 23 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:53.799 same with sales, and start thinking and their customers more like people and consumers, 24 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.680 similar to the way that be Toc companies do, and not like sales 25 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.629 targets. So before to that, I'd love for you to share with listeners 26 00:02:00.670 --> 00:02:05.310 a little bit about yourself and what you in the team be to health roape 27 00:02:05.310 --> 00:02:07.709 to these days. Yeah, sure, so, in terms of myself, 28 00:02:07.829 --> 00:02:10.669 the reason why I think so much about this kind of quote unquote consumerization of 29 00:02:10.710 --> 00:02:15.860 be Tob marketing is because I've been really fortunate in my career to be able 30 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:17.539 to dabble a lot in both be to be and B Toc. So I 31 00:02:19.060 --> 00:02:23.099 have worked in marketing roles at Google, Microsoft, facebook, Pinterrist on influencer 32 00:02:23.139 --> 00:02:28.379 marketing or advocacy marketing company called expert voice, was a general manager for a 33 00:02:28.379 --> 00:02:32.250 while a compass and now I run marketing for Vita, and so I've kind 34 00:02:32.289 --> 00:02:37.289 of if you take facebook as an example, my first job at facebook was 35 00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:39.889 doing sales marketing, so creating sales collateral, you know, the pitch, 36 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:45.400 the messaging to the be to be audience. And then after I did that 37 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:47.400 for a while, I switched over to the facebook creative shop, and the 38 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:53.280 facebook creative shop is the inhouse creative agency that works directly with facebook's largest advertisers 39 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.680 to come up with really cool consumer can and pains, and that was kind 40 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.310 of the first time probably where it struck me in my career I was like 41 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:02.990 wait, these things are not that different, at least they don't have to 42 00:03:04.150 --> 00:03:07.069 be, and at their best they're probably not that different. And so I 43 00:03:07.830 --> 00:03:13.020 joined VI to health about two months ago as VP of marketing and it's been 44 00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:15.979 really fun for me to get back to my passion, which is marketing. 45 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:21.539 And for those that aren't familiar, Vida is a is is an APP that 46 00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:27.060 brings cutting edge technology like machine learning, together with the human touch of health 47 00:03:27.139 --> 00:03:30.930 coaches, nutritionist therapists, and they help people get healthy. So a huge 48 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:38.090 percentage of the American population has chronic illnesses like diabetes and obesity and high high 49 00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:42.759 cholesterol on high blood pressure, and so for those people, beat as really, 50 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.120 really effective at bringing together that kind of machine learning based Hey, what's 51 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:49.599 the right steps for you to take to get healthy, together with the accountability 52 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.520 and the support of a human coach or therapist. And then for people who 53 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.990 are healthy right now, it's all about prevention, because we have we have 54 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:02.030 some pretty pervasive health problems that hit people as they age in this country and 55 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:05.990 and we're doing our best to help people to make the lifestyle changes they need 56 00:04:06.030 --> 00:04:10.659 to make when they're younger to avoid getting things like diabetes. I love it 57 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:16.699 and that background is super impressive and it definitely makes sense why you're so interested 58 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:23.860 in passion about this topic of Vita being BBC consumerzation and that. It makes 59 00:04:23.860 --> 00:04:27.209 so sense, though, and thanks so much for sharing that context. Super 60 00:04:27.209 --> 00:04:31.129 Helpful. Yeah, awesome. So I'd love to just dive in and kind 61 00:04:31.129 --> 00:04:34.529 of, you know, start by talking about, you know, how brands 62 00:04:35.009 --> 00:04:43.240 can start to leverage branding and and what ways that you know you either have 63 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:47.879 done yourself or ways that you know be tob decision makers in the marketing departments 64 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:54.550 can figure out and start developing more of what their brand stand for it. 65 00:04:54.629 --> 00:04:58.110 Maybe share some examples of that that you either come across or that you've worked 66 00:04:58.149 --> 00:05:00.029 on it yourself. Yes, or so, I think the the the biggest 67 00:05:00.029 --> 00:05:05.310 question here is why do branding in a bit to be environment, because in 68 00:05:05.509 --> 00:05:12.939 my experience, so much of the be to be daytoday is about the tactics 69 00:05:13.060 --> 00:05:15.620 and it's about, you know, optimizing that funnel and, you know, 70 00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:20.220 demand Jen and marketing automation and that's all really, really important stuff. But 71 00:05:20.610 --> 00:05:26.050 there's just so little discussion about branding in most be to be context. But 72 00:05:26.170 --> 00:05:30.569 if you think about it, every single decision that a person right, let's 73 00:05:30.610 --> 00:05:35.480 let's ignore whether they are quote unquote, consumers or customers. Every single decision 74 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:41.600 that a person makes about what to buy fall somewhere on a spectrum that lies 75 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:46.519 on one end with rational thought and on the other extreme with emotional thought. 76 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.149 And you know, so I think about you know, if you are signing 77 00:05:49.149 --> 00:05:54.470 up for a new checking account or credit a card, that's a hugely rational 78 00:05:54.670 --> 00:06:00.509 decision. Right you're comparing perks and benefits and rates and all these numbers in 79 00:06:00.870 --> 00:06:05.060 kind of a table, side by side and you're making a fairly objective decision 80 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:10.540 about which of those products is going to be best for your for your life 81 00:06:10.579 --> 00:06:14.779 right now. But if you're in the checkout I'll at a grocery store and 82 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:19.089 you see a pack of like big red staring you down and you grab that 83 00:06:19.170 --> 00:06:23.850 pack of Big Red, that is a purely emotional decision. Like nobody. 84 00:06:23.889 --> 00:06:28.610 You never see anybody at the checkout counter comparing the ingredient lists of gum or 85 00:06:28.730 --> 00:06:31.610 comparing, you know, calories from like one gum to another. Like it's 86 00:06:31.689 --> 00:06:35.319 just pure emotion and that speaks to me as a big Red Fan who recently 87 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:40.480 rediscovered that love of chewing gum. And so if you think about the brands 88 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.800 that have that are able to tap into more of that emotional decision making, 89 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:47.949 they tend to have higher pricing power. So a good example of this is 90 00:06:48.310 --> 00:06:53.509 a gatorade has a stronger brand than power aid and no matter where you look 91 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:56.910 at costs more. It just costs a little bit more if you want gatorade. 92 00:06:57.509 --> 00:07:00.860 Brands that have that TAPP into that emotional decision making tend to be stickier, 93 00:07:00.939 --> 00:07:04.899 they tend to have more loyalty and they tend to have higher customer satisfaction 94 00:07:05.139 --> 00:07:10.459 because people feel happy about using them, because they feel a connection to the 95 00:07:10.579 --> 00:07:13.980 brand. So that's kind of, at a high level, why I think 96 00:07:14.019 --> 00:07:17.850 branding is so important, because if you have a strong brand, you dramatically 97 00:07:17.889 --> 00:07:25.129 increase the likelihood that you can tap into people's emotional decision making, which is 98 00:07:25.250 --> 00:07:28.730 going to bring you that pricing power, that's stickiness, that user satisfaction, 99 00:07:28.769 --> 00:07:30.920 all those things that make the numbers go up into the right I love it. 100 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:35.279 And would you want to share an example of either a brand or like 101 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:40.920 any sort of like companies that you feel like you're doing this well at all? 102 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.509 Yeah, so one of my favorite examples here, and and you know, 103 00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:47.350 reasonable people can probably disagree about the way I plot these brands on the 104 00:07:47.430 --> 00:07:51.110 spectrum, but imagine, if you will, align and on one end it's 105 00:07:51.110 --> 00:07:57.189 rational, on the other end and it's emotional. And let's take productivity software 106 00:07:57.189 --> 00:08:01.259 as an example. I would put Zoho all the way at the end. 107 00:08:01.339 --> 00:08:05.740 That's rational. It's just the best pricing, it's got the most you know, 108 00:08:05.939 --> 00:08:07.860 functionality for the price. Like, arguably it's the most bang for your 109 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:11.339 bucket. So if you sit down, you look at here's the functionality we 110 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:15.730 need and here's the pricing. You know, that's really where zoho shines. 111 00:08:15.769 --> 00:08:18.649 It appeals to that rational decisionmaker. And then all the way at the other 112 00:08:18.689 --> 00:08:24.370 end of the extreme is g sweet, and g sweet has been able to 113 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:28.399 draft off of the Google brand. And you know, it's so funny when 114 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.279 you talk to people who are working at startups or you know when, as 115 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:33.120 I've done a couple of times in my career, you join a new startup, 116 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.960 if they're not using g sweet, if they're using Microsoft office, there's 117 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:39.919 a little bit of this like wait a minute, like what's going on here? 118 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:45.269 You know, is this is this company modern? Is it is it 119 00:08:45.509 --> 00:08:50.629 cool? Is it like is it in tune with the now, because they're 120 00:08:50.629 --> 00:08:54.909 using outlook, for example. Right, and so on these two ends of 121 00:08:54.909 --> 00:08:58.379 the extreme you got Zoho, superrational. You've got g suite. That is 122 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.940 certainly rational, right. I mean they lay out the functionality, the features 123 00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:05.179 of the pricing, but they have that really strong brand. And in the 124 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:09.940 middle here you've got Microsoft Office, which used to be the dominant brand. 125 00:09:09.730 --> 00:09:13.529 But as someone who used to work in Microsoft office in all in marketing, 126 00:09:13.889 --> 00:09:16.490 you know, I don't think that there's a lot of discussion about the brand. 127 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:22.009 There's a lot of discussion around the tactics of growing the business and I 128 00:09:22.169 --> 00:09:26.480 think that the people who identify very passionately with using office are people who identify 129 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.919 very strongly with habits that they already have in terms of using email or excel 130 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.240 or something. They don't want to relearn new tools. But I don't I 131 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.590 don't see a lot of emotional connection to the office brand and I do see 132 00:09:39.590 --> 00:09:43.070 a lot of emotional connection to the Google brand, even in the enterprise. 133 00:09:43.710 --> 00:09:46.629 That's a fact and I can attest to that too, because it's real and 134 00:09:46.710 --> 00:09:50.509 pretty sure almost every company I've worked that is used g sweet and then prior 135 00:09:50.830 --> 00:09:54.460 like the older ones that have been around loader, have used outlook. So 136 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:58.700 definitely can attest it at also being the case for me as well. Yeah, 137 00:09:58.019 --> 00:10:01.580 I love it. And in terms of some best practices that you would 138 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:07.649 mind sharing, like do you have any like best practices maybe from BBC World, 139 00:10:07.250 --> 00:10:11.450 that you know bb brands can kind of take and take a look at 140 00:10:11.529 --> 00:10:16.009 to either do some research or some strategies that might be helped for for these 141 00:10:16.049 --> 00:10:20.210 different be to be braves that could, you know, change their strategies a 142 00:10:20.210 --> 00:10:22.679 little bit. Yeah, for sure. I think there's there's a couple of 143 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.919 tactics, the three or four tactics that are just absolutely table stakes within B 144 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.320 Toc that you don't see as much of and Bab and. In my mind, 145 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.789 there's just no reason why that should be the case. The first that 146 00:10:35.830 --> 00:10:39.750 I would call out is good old plane and simple blocking and tackling, reach 147 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:43.230 and frequency. If you talk to a consumer marketer, they talk about reach 148 00:10:43.309 --> 00:10:46.750 and frequency. They know who they're trying to reach and they have an idea 149 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.220 of how often they want to reach those people and they do so under a 150 00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:54.940 sustained period of time, whereas you know, in a beat to be context 151 00:10:54.980 --> 00:10:58.940 there's a lot more like short term optimization. There's a lot more like, 152 00:11:00.139 --> 00:11:01.659 well, you know, we're going to run a campaign here and we're going 153 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:05.210 to do a Webinar and we're going to try and drive people to the Webinart 154 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:07.250 and they're going to dump them in our email and it's just a lot more 155 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:13.649 focused on those kind of tactical steps and much less around what are we doing 156 00:11:15.570 --> 00:11:18.840 to nurture this body of people that we want to be building a reputation with. 157 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.679 A brand is just a reputation, right. It's your it's your image. 158 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.000 And a friend of mine who I worked with at facebook, who's an 159 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.320 absolute genius in just about all things marketing, getting Paul Adams. He used 160 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.909 to just beat into my head whenever we're working on a project that brands are 161 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:41.429 built the same way as relationships, a series of lightweight interactions over time. 162 00:11:41.750 --> 00:11:43.389 So if you think about any relationship, right, if you're still close to 163 00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:48.299 your high school friends, your college friends, it's because you talk regularly and 164 00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:52.740 you know, if you've got a partner of spouse, most of those discussions 165 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:56.019 that you're having are super lightweight. They're not like the deep, like what 166 00:11:56.139 --> 00:11:58.980 would you do if you were on a desert island and you can only take 167 00:11:58.019 --> 00:12:01.730 one book? Right, it's more like, you know, wow, like 168 00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:03.330 you should have seen the diaper I change today, like that was crazy. 169 00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:07.610 You know, it's like super lightweight stuff, but it builds relationships and so 170 00:12:07.690 --> 00:12:11.169 if you want to have a strong brand, you've got to have you've got 171 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:15.049 to follow the same tactics that you do to build a strong relationship. Lightweight 172 00:12:15.049 --> 00:12:20.879 interactions. Over time that's reaching frequency. Another one is storytelling. Be Toc 173 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:26.840 brands are always aspiring to tell amazing stories and be too be brands seldom do 174 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:28.440 a good job of this. But there's two stand out examples in the last 175 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.110 few years where I think be to be brands have have really shocked the world 176 00:12:33.110 --> 00:12:35.470 and they've come in here and they've they've they've punched way above their weight. 177 00:12:35.549 --> 00:12:39.549 There they're right up there with the best consumer brands. The first that I 178 00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:41.070 would point out, and it's a few years old now but everyone knows of 179 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:48.139 it, is the Jean Claude van damn epic split for Volvo trucks. Now, 180 00:12:48.340 --> 00:12:50.779 Volvo trucks, like Volvo, is kind of a consumer brand, but 181 00:12:50.779 --> 00:12:54.259 Volvo trucks is a different company and Volvo trucks is a be to be brand. 182 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.570 It nobody like goes to like a car dealership and buys a semi truck 183 00:12:58.610 --> 00:13:03.169 from Volvo. It's a be to be like enterprise purchase. And the reason 184 00:13:03.610 --> 00:13:07.330 why force from Botto Force, the agency that worked with Volvo on this, 185 00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:11.769 the reason they did this is because they wanted to tap into that emotional sational 186 00:13:11.809 --> 00:13:16.320 decision making. They wanted people who might be in the market for a semi 187 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:20.679 truck to feel cool when they're making that person. They wanted their kids to 188 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.120 be like, oh, Vobo trucks are so cool, you see that John 189 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.440 Claude van Damn thing right. And so I think that was a really, 190 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:31.190 really effective tactic for using storytelling to build a brand in a BEDB context. 191 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:35.509 My other favorite one, and I'll just step back for just a moment, 192 00:13:35.549 --> 00:13:39.149 one of my favorite things to do whenever I'm speaking to a group of people 193 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:41.580 is I'll just say the name of a brand and I'll ask them the first 194 00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:46.220 word that comes to mind. And so I'll ask them, I'll say, 195 00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:48.659 you know, when I say Volvough, what's the first word that comes to 196 00:13:48.700 --> 00:13:52.259 mine? And everybody says safety, and I say what about Mercedes, and 197 00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:56.690 they say luxury, and I say what about BMW? And they say performance, 198 00:13:56.730 --> 00:14:01.129 Sporty, fast, and I say Oracle and they just look at me 199 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:05.529 blankly, and I say sap and they look at me blankly. and Oracle 200 00:14:05.570 --> 00:14:09.080 and SAP, by the way, are in the top twenty brands in the 201 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.519 world. Is ranked by intergrowing. There's a big brands, but nobody can 202 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.799 tell you what they stand for and then I say what about IBM? You 203 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.919 know, people say. People say Watson, and that, I think, 204 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.070 is a really, really good example of a be to be brand using what 205 00:14:24.190 --> 00:14:31.990 has been historically BEAC tactics of to build a BB brand. So Watson, 206 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:35.350 of course, is famous among consumers for winning on jeopardy. So this is 207 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:39.379 and it's just a brilliant campaign. So here you've got this incredibly cutting edge 208 00:14:39.379 --> 00:14:43.620 artificial intelligence technology and you want to go out there and win in what is 209 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.299 becoming a really crowded ai and ML market place. And what do you do? 210 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:52.059 You show off your technology and a consumer, you know, landscape like 211 00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:56.730 in a consumer channel like jeopardy. It's an absolutely brilliant storytelling and I think 212 00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:00.570 idms one of the strongest be to be brands out there, because people can 213 00:15:00.610 --> 00:15:03.049 think of something. So those are a couple of the big ones. I 214 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:05.809 think that, you know, two more, if I can just add real 215 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:09.720 quick, are the experience. So you know, I know there's lots that's 216 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:13.320 being said about we work right now and some of it is fair and some 217 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.720 of it is unfair, but you can't deny that we work has built a 218 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.879 really, really strong brand. Right let's leave valuations aside for a moment and 219 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.309 the way they built that strong brand is by having an experience. And as 220 00:15:24.309 --> 00:15:26.149 a guy who spent a lot of time at we work and a lot of 221 00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:30.870 time at Regis, he just can't even compare the two and I think they 222 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:35.820 stand as kind of a representation of this contrast between historical be to be. 223 00:15:37.299 --> 00:15:39.980 Regis just feels like death when you walk in, like it's just it just 224 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:45.340 it sucks the will to do anything interesting out of your out of your mind, 225 00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:48.340 whereas you go into we work. And they thought really hard about the 226 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:52.409 experience. And if you think about be to be marketing, there's so much 227 00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:56.490 conference attendance, there's so many events that we do under the auspices of thought 228 00:15:56.529 --> 00:16:02.809 leadership and I don't think that we're thinking enough about the experience and what the 229 00:16:02.889 --> 00:16:07.720 snacks we serve says about the brand and what the lighting and the staging and 230 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.000 the the core on the furniture says about the brands. That's another one that 231 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.840 I would I would put out there. Today's gross story revolves around search engine 232 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.909 marketing. Delphis, a big data platform, had hired an agency to manage 233 00:16:19.909 --> 00:16:23.350 their Google adds a few years ago, but they weren't seeing the results they 234 00:16:23.350 --> 00:16:27.669 wanted to see. Being such a technical be tob solution, they set out 235 00:16:27.669 --> 00:16:33.179 to find a team that could take on their challenge. After countless proposals, 236 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:37.179 they found the perfect fit directive consulting, the B Tob Search Marketing Agency. 237 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:45.379 And just one week after launching directives campaigns Delphic saw their lead volume double and 238 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:49.889 their costper lead drop by sixty percent. I have a hunch that directive can 239 00:16:49.929 --> 00:16:53.970 get these kind of results for you too, so head over to directive consultingcom 240 00:16:55.330 --> 00:17:00.600 and request a totally free custom proposal. That's directive consultingcom. All right, 241 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:06.839 let's get back to this interview. I'm just thinking, like if if you 242 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.359 were to be leading a you know, rebranding, you know campaign or rebranding 243 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.599 project for a company, like what are some things that you would want to 244 00:17:15.109 --> 00:17:18.309 like, what would you think about? Because it sounds like there's a lot 245 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:21.430 and when it comes into branding, right, especially when it comes to be 246 00:17:21.549 --> 00:17:25.269 to be brand, and these different companies are trying to think of okay, 247 00:17:25.390 --> 00:17:27.029 well, all right, well, if we need to do this branding project, 248 00:17:27.630 --> 00:17:32.059 well, where we start? Like there's there's a lot of places. 249 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:33.140 So I guess. Could you? Would you mind sharing like where you would 250 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:37.019 start if you were, you know, going through a rebrand, you know 251 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:40.660 as a BDB company? Yeah, for sure, branding and rebrands are one 252 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:44.059 of my favorite things in the world and you know, their tons of fun, 253 00:17:44.369 --> 00:17:49.130 but I find that they're often overly complicated and unnecessarily overwhelming. I think 254 00:17:49.170 --> 00:17:55.450 that you can do an effective branding exercise or reband branding exercise with a pretty 255 00:17:55.490 --> 00:17:57.369 simple tool, and I can't take credit for this tool. I think I've 256 00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:00.839 just picked it up through working with people much smarter than myself over the years, 257 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.599 and so I'm borrowing these principles and kind of Mashine them together. But 258 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:08.960 I start with any branding exercise you want to develop a brand key, because 259 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:14.589 if you can develop a brand key, then every time you're evaluating a tactic 260 00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:18.630 or a campaign thereafter you don't have to sit there and reinvent the wheel and 261 00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:21.869 think yourself, well is should we do this or should we do this? 262 00:18:22.069 --> 00:18:25.390 Like you already know what your North Star is, and so there's four really 263 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:30.299 simple ingredients or elements of what I think is an effective brand key. The 264 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:33.380 first as your audience. You have to know who your audience is. I'll 265 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:36.420 summarize them first then I'll dive in each of them really briefly. The four 266 00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:41.529 elements are audience, values, style and essence. So when it comes to 267 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:45.529 your audience, you have to know who you're talking to. And the pitfall 268 00:18:45.569 --> 00:18:49.369 that I see most brands get tripped up on here is they cast way to 269 00:18:49.569 --> 00:18:53.369 broaden net. And again it's easy to point to consumer examples because we're all 270 00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:56.519 familiar with them, but look at BMW. BMW's target audience is clearly a 271 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.039 middle aged male, the tons of middle aged female and younger female and older 272 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.000 females by them. So it's better to know exactly who you're talking to and 273 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.759 speak clearly to them and count on the fact that there will be other people 274 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:11.789 for whom that same style and message will resonate then to try and be all 275 00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:15.109 things to all people. So really hone in on your audience. The second 276 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:19.349 piece values. What is it about your business that resonates with your audience? 277 00:19:19.589 --> 00:19:23.029 Codify those like why do people? Why do people like working with you? 278 00:19:23.190 --> 00:19:26.980 Is it the technology? Is at the customer support? Is it the ease 279 00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:30.900 of use? is at the like it always work like? What is it 280 00:19:30.019 --> 00:19:33.140 you know and codify those and keep coming back to them over and over in 281 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:37.180 your storytelling. The third is your style. This is colors, this is 282 00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:41.289 voice, like how do you show up? You know, are you are 283 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:44.769 you fun? Are you serious? And there's just way too much sterility and 284 00:19:44.890 --> 00:19:48.009 be the be marketing in general. And the final is your essence, and 285 00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:49.849 essence is one of the hardest, by the hardest piece of the brand key, 286 00:19:51.210 --> 00:19:55.200 but it's the most important because it's really that that quintessential North Star. 287 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:57.559 Your essence is the one word that comes to mind when you think of a 288 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:03.920 brand. So when people say Volvo is safety, safety is the essence. 289 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.230 When they say Mercedes is luxury, luxury as the essence, and when they 290 00:20:07.269 --> 00:20:11.750 say that IBM is artificial intelligence, that's the essence. Most brands, though, 291 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:18.910 have not they've not been consistent enough in telling, in distributing the same 292 00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:22.380 messages over and over over time, that reachion frequency, couple with the storytelling 293 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:27.259 to be able to develop any meaningful brand essence. But you can start by 294 00:20:27.380 --> 00:20:32.460 codifying that brand key and having the discipline to make sure that everybody in your 295 00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:37.970 organization is adhering to that brand key with every single piece of marketing you put 296 00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:41.890 out love that. Thanks so much for sharing that that context and that's super 297 00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.769 helpful framework that I think a lot of people will find a lot of value 298 00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:48.289 and if they just take their their brand through that exercise. So thank you 299 00:20:48.369 --> 00:20:53.519 much, awesome and I have one other question that I has been kind of 300 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.839 picking at me for a little bit and related to some of s that that 301 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.920 you shared. I figure in our pre interg conversations you talked a little bit 302 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:07.230 about a perceived wall within marketing between BEB and BTC. Can you talk to 303 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:10.549 us a little bit about that wall and like what you mean by that, 304 00:21:10.670 --> 00:21:14.309 so people can you know, understand that's a little bit yeah, so one 305 00:21:14.349 --> 00:21:17.950 thing that I've encountered a ton in my career is this perception of this notion 306 00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:21.779 that if you're hiring somebody for a BBB role, they have to come from 307 00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:23.700 a BBB background. You're hiring somebody from a consumer role, they have to 308 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:27.019 come from a consumer background. I think that is a really, really stupid 309 00:21:27.019 --> 00:21:32.019 way to build a team. I think the cross pollination between the disciplines of 310 00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:37.009 be tob marketing and BE TOC marketing can make both of those functions way way 311 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:41.529 stronger and way more effective and without a doubt, some of the strongest performers 312 00:21:41.569 --> 00:21:48.680 I've ever managed and ever hired are people where I hired someone from the other 313 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:53.079 kind of side of marketing to take a role in the other side. Right. 314 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:59.440 So I'd hire a BTC person to do content marketing. I'd hire a 315 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.829 BB person to do brand positioning and branding and and growth and things like that, 316 00:22:04.470 --> 00:22:11.109 and I think that the discipline of marketing is consistent and coherent enough that 317 00:22:11.269 --> 00:22:14.950 it's not like you're starting from scraps. Like if you're a marketer, you're 318 00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:19.299 a marketer first and foremost, and then the difference between be to be marketing 319 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:23.420 and be TOC tends to be one of execution and the way that you approach 320 00:22:23.539 --> 00:22:26.940 problem solving. So if you can cross pollinate between those two, I think 321 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:30.609 you end up with a far, far stronger marketing team. So I would 322 00:22:30.609 --> 00:22:36.289 encourage anybody who's building a BETB team to be looking at recruiting B Toc Marketers. 323 00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:38.769 I would encourage anybody WHO's building a B Toc Team to think about somebody 324 00:22:38.769 --> 00:22:42.569 from a B to be background who's probably going to bring some new rigor and 325 00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:48.480 some new tactical focus. And I would encourage anybody who works in marketing to 326 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:53.519 not pigeon hole themselves or allow themselves to be pigeonholed as either be to be 327 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.279 or be TOC too early in their career. It's fine to do that later 328 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.869 if you really figure out what you love, but early on, don't let 329 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:03.710 that just be a game of chance. Take take the deliberate time and effort 330 00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:07.710 to try to get experience in both hands and know that every day you spend 331 00:23:07.750 --> 00:23:11.509 in one of those silos you're building skills that are relevant to the other one. 332 00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:15.740 Got It. Love that. I think it's super helpful to such an 333 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.019 outside of the box way of thinking about hiring and building a team, because 334 00:23:19.059 --> 00:23:23.259 that's that's definitely what I've never heard before. So that's that love. That's 335 00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:27.410 fireman, but it's working for me, so I like to think it would 336 00:23:27.410 --> 00:23:30.809 work for others to right. Totally love that. That's what the shows all 337 00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:34.490 about. Offer and value that you've experienced and found success with and then figuring 338 00:23:34.490 --> 00:23:38.130 out how to deliver that value back to everybody else also. Well, Kevin, 339 00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:42.559 this has been such a great conversation and one of the ways we like 340 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:48.720 to wrap up the show is for guests to share a strategy that they're either 341 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.119 currently trying or thinking about in the future. So do you have anything that 342 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.400 you're, you know, working or working towards that you get? Sure? 343 00:23:55.910 --> 00:23:59.109 So, I'm pretty new at Vita, been in roll for about two months, 344 00:23:59.309 --> 00:24:03.750 and the way that Vida historically goes to market is we sell to employers 345 00:24:03.829 --> 00:24:07.869 like large fortune five hundred companies and they buy Vita on behalf of their employees. 346 00:24:07.910 --> 00:24:11.539 They provided as a benefit because if their employees are healthier than they're more 347 00:24:11.539 --> 00:24:15.180 productive, they're happier, they're more loyal, they spend less time, you 348 00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:17.940 know, sick and out of the office and they cost a lot less in 349 00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:22.900 in medicine and doctor visits and hospital stays and things like that. But one 350 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:26.170 of the things that that we're really starting to think earnestly about right now is 351 00:24:26.809 --> 00:24:32.250 taking the same product that has traditionally for us as a business, been distributed 352 00:24:32.369 --> 00:24:37.769 through the enterprise and going directly to consumers with it, because I believe that 353 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:42.279 if you're willing to spend seventy five bucks on a gym membership, then you 354 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.599 want to be willing to spend seventy five bucks on a health coach who is 355 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:52.319 any combination of a personal trainer, a nutritionist, you know, any number 356 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.670 of other certifications and areas of expertise that can help you be really holistly healthy, 357 00:24:57.230 --> 00:25:00.710 and so this is a fun exercise. I get to kind of practice 358 00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:03.670 what I've been preaching here as we take the muscle that we have built on 359 00:25:04.269 --> 00:25:10.619 BB marketing and take that and apply it to building a direct to consumer B 360 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:14.660 Toc Brand. So it's what I'm thinking a lot about right now and hopefully 361 00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:17.299 we will be able to look back on this in a few months and talk 362 00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:21.140 about some successes. I love it. I love it, Kevin. This 363 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:25.569 has been such a valuable conversation. Man, if listeners want to stay connected 364 00:25:25.609 --> 00:25:29.890 with you or follow up to ask any additional questions on some of the topics 365 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.569 that you shared, what's the best way for them to connect with you? 366 00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:36.960 I'm a big fan of Linkedin. I'm Kevin Ja night at Linkedin. Got 367 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:38.799 It. So you guys heard that. Connect with Kevin on Linkedin if you 368 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:42.880 have any questions, as I'm sure I know I do have a lot of 369 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:47.079 questions from some of the value that you shared with us. So I'm go 370 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:51.190 ahead over to linkedin and connect with Kevin and thanks again, Kevin. We 371 00:25:51.269 --> 00:25:52.710 really appreciate you beat on the show today. Thank you, trap is. 372 00:25:52.750 --> 00:25:59.710 Appreciate you having me. We totally get it. We publish a ton of 373 00:25:59.990 --> 00:26:02.950 content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. 374 00:26:03.509 --> 00:26:07.660 That's why we've started the B tob growth big three, a no fluff email 375 00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:11.740 that fools down. Our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. 376 00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:18.049 Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big 377 00:26:18.410 --> Three
