1160: Common Misconceptions of the CMO Role w/ Isabelle Papoulias

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.160 There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:09.310 to pay attention to your brand? Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients 3 00:00:09.550 --> 00:00:19.390 to be guests on your show. Learn more at sweetfish MEDIACOM. You're listening 4 00:00:19.429 --> 00:00:24.179 to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed 5 00:00:24.219 --> 00:00:27.859 names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and Simon Senek, but 6 00:00:27.980 --> 00:00:32.259 you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk 7 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:36.810 of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are 8 00:00:36.929 --> 00:00:41.729 in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting 9 00:00:41.770 --> 00:00:46.450 with tactics. They're building the fastest growing BEDB companies in the world. My 10 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:50.320 name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweetfish media, a podcast agency 11 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.439 for BB brands, and I'm also one of the CO hosts of this show. 12 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.840 When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind 13 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.159 the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of our 14 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:06.269 journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, maybe 15 00:01:06.909 --> 00:01:15.269 let's get into the show. Welcome back to be tob growth. I am 16 00:01:15.349 --> 00:01:19.060 your host for today's episode, Nikki Ivy, with sweetfish media guys. I've 17 00:01:19.140 --> 00:01:25.900 got with me to day Isabelle Papulias, who is chief marketing officer at media 18 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.780 fly also was recently listed as one of the drifts twenty five powerhouse marketers to 19 00:01:30.900 --> 00:01:37.329 follow, and I promptly did so myself once I saw that list come out. 20 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:40.250 But was already slated to have you on the show, Isabelle, and 21 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:42.650 so I'm excited for you be talking with this that's I was going to be 22 00:01:42.730 --> 00:01:48.879 talking to us about the some misconceptions about the role of chief marketing officers and 23 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.280 why some CMOS fail. But before we get into that, Isabel I'd love 24 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.519 if you just give us all a little bit of background on yourself and what 25 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.909 you and the folks at Media Flyer up to these days. Sure. How 26 00:02:00.989 --> 00:02:05.790 everyone, High Nikki, thanks for having me on. So my background. 27 00:02:05.790 --> 00:02:10.789 I am come, or originally from the marketing research side of things. That's 28 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:14.830 how I started my career early on in New York and then moved on to 29 00:02:15.389 --> 00:02:21.259 advertising and media agencies, both small and very larger ones, managing global, 30 00:02:21.379 --> 00:02:28.620 global accounts for the most part and I joined media fly three years ago, 31 00:02:28.659 --> 00:02:32.129 actually joining sales and then, and behold, six months into the role, 32 00:02:32.210 --> 00:02:37.169 I was asked to jump in and build marketing. Given my background, I 33 00:02:37.330 --> 00:02:39.289 hear here, I was thinking I had made a career change and back to 34 00:02:39.449 --> 00:02:43.770 marketing, but it was very exciting for me to be doing it, you 35 00:02:43.849 --> 00:02:46.159 know, the brand side of things and not in a client service capacity. 36 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:53.400 And so nearly three years now, and you know about two of those in 37 00:02:53.560 --> 00:03:00.069 marketing and I became CMO from Boka earlier this year. Media Fly is in 38 00:03:00.310 --> 00:03:05.789 the SELS enablement space. We are a company that provides cells enablement technology as 39 00:03:05.870 --> 00:03:10.590 well as advisory services to help reps be much more effective in front of prospects 40 00:03:10.830 --> 00:03:16.500 nowhere they're selling. Most sellers go to potential buyers with a one size fit 41 00:03:16.580 --> 00:03:23.659 salt powerpoints, you know, boring presentation and our vision is really to make 42 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:27.689 that that process and that interaction a lot more engaging, more customized, you 43 00:03:27.729 --> 00:03:30.050 know, more consultative, to be able to close more deals. And the 44 00:03:30.330 --> 00:03:38.530 biggest challenges that we solve that for clients are mainly around helping clients give wraps 45 00:03:38.969 --> 00:03:44.439 the right content at the right time when you're in front of prospect right, 46 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.199 what's the most compelling content that you want to share in that moment, in 47 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.199 that discussion, so that you can influence the buyer? And the other big 48 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:57.069 challenge we solve is most most companies produce a lot of self collateral. Marketing 49 00:03:57.110 --> 00:04:00.710 teams produce volume and they don't usually see how it's being used and if it's 50 00:04:00.750 --> 00:04:05.469 working, if it's moving the sales forward or not, or even if self 51 00:04:05.550 --> 00:04:09.710 reps are using it at all. Right, so we provide a visibility. 52 00:04:09.710 --> 00:04:12.740 As a marketer, you get to see exactly how your content is being used, 53 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:15.899 what's not used, if the content is closing the deals, and it 54 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:19.420 informs your marketing, your content strategy that way, right. And so our 55 00:04:19.500 --> 00:04:26.089 clients with US helping them make their self seems more effecting from our process. 56 00:04:26.209 --> 00:04:30.449 Sex We help them close a lot more deals and drive revenue upwards of sixty 57 00:04:30.490 --> 00:04:32.410 percent, you know, which is the end the end game. So that's 58 00:04:32.449 --> 00:04:35.970 the business run. I love it at you not talked off lie about how 59 00:04:36.250 --> 00:04:42.079 I spent most of my career, my professional career, as a salesperson and 60 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:46.319 this is just the kind of tool that that I know folks need and it's 61 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.199 it's kind of hard sometimes to figure out, like so, is is it 62 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:56.189 just that that the sales and admit technology is that part is blowing up more? 63 00:04:56.310 --> 00:05:00.189 Are Folks finding different, new and different ways that they want to approach 64 00:05:00.230 --> 00:05:05.230 sales and then the technology is catching up? So just kind of off top 65 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:08.019 before we get into what we're getting into. What do you what do you 66 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:12.300 think about that as being somebody who's in the the the really huge sales and 67 00:05:12.579 --> 00:05:15.379 misspace? So I think I know way I would look at it. Actually, 68 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:20.180 there's a really compelling statistic that I came across recently, which is ninety 69 00:05:20.259 --> 00:05:27.810 three percent of companies don't have feels, anablement technology. That's huge. Yeah, 70 00:05:28.329 --> 00:05:31.769 so there's a huge opportunity there and I think it's again, that's what 71 00:05:31.889 --> 00:05:33.889 we need to do, right, is the way we look at a media 72 00:05:33.970 --> 00:05:40.360 flies. We want to make cells and enable not accessible to all the companies 73 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.439 that have stepped into that space. Are the ones that are, you know, 74 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:47.000 the ones that I have adopted more quickly. They're perhaps more, you 75 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:51.069 know, the risk takers and there are more innovative right, but our vision 76 00:05:51.189 --> 00:05:57.189 is to democratize it's so speak. There's just for exception, largely because of 77 00:05:57.350 --> 00:06:01.149 CRM and and no offense to the crum you know of from cloud there, 78 00:06:01.230 --> 00:06:05.339 but companies have been blur burned with crum implementations. Right, they're expensive and 79 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:09.339 their kind and there they take long time to implement and they don't see the 80 00:06:09.339 --> 00:06:15.180 adoption. And so I think by US mosis there's negative reputation for all other 81 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:19.610 cells enable man tools. And the reality is that it doesn't have to be 82 00:06:19.730 --> 00:06:23.930 that way. Right, cells enablement doesn't have to be a risky prop position, 83 00:06:24.009 --> 00:06:27.850 it doesn't have to be complicated and through, in fact, a recent 84 00:06:27.850 --> 00:06:30.970 acquisition that media fly made. You know, what we're doing now is making 85 00:06:31.009 --> 00:06:35.720 it accessible, providing a low cost and easy entry point to cells enablement so 86 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:39.199 you can you can dip your toe in the water, so to speak, 87 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:44.480 and then and then grow from there, because the cells enablement journey is not 88 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.310 the same for every company. There's companies who are looking for very basic content 89 00:06:48.430 --> 00:06:53.910 management solutions, right, just make it easy for me to organize the content, 90 00:06:54.110 --> 00:06:56.509 push it to the reps, make sure they have access to it right 91 00:06:57.189 --> 00:07:00.660 all the way to companies that are what we call evolve sellers, that are 92 00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:08.579 looking for very sophisticated self presentation tools like, you know, integration with her 93 00:07:08.660 --> 00:07:12.300 part data. How do we visualize data to make it more engaging to the 94 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:15.089 person I'm presenting to? How do I build in Roy calculators, you know, 95 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:19.370 in the conversation, and all kinds of customizations from there. That doesn't 96 00:07:19.410 --> 00:07:24.889 mean that everyone needs that. And then there's everything in between. So for 97 00:07:25.050 --> 00:07:30.600 us are visual is providing really a sweeter suite of tools and and and products 98 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.279 that meet the needs, your needs, whether you're the very beginning of your 99 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:38.160 journey or whether you're already pre advanced and you're looking to up level, for 100 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:43.279 sure. So it's interesting. It's sales enablement, but most of the folks 101 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.389 I'm talking to about these tools right, people who buy the tools, and 102 00:07:46.550 --> 00:07:51.910 often the people who are responsible for getting people to buy the tool our marketers 103 00:07:53.589 --> 00:07:56.470 and and so I think that kind of that kind of goes into what we 104 00:07:56.550 --> 00:07:59.660 were talking about offline as far as what the role of the CMO really is, 105 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:03.459 right. So, so talk to us a little bit about what it 106 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.740 was like for you to make in the transition from the P of marketing into 107 00:08:07.819 --> 00:08:13.329 a CMO roll over your career and in what differences you've seen there and then 108 00:08:13.370 --> 00:08:18.250 we'll get into some of the some of the the ways that that role is 109 00:08:18.329 --> 00:08:22.050 expanding, contrary to a lot of people might think. HMM, so it's 110 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:24.610 it for me, the biggest, the biggest shift I'm noticing. And again, 111 00:08:24.649 --> 00:08:28.600 the change is recent, right. So I became change in March, 112 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.919 but I'm feeling it in a good way. For me, to change is 113 00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:35.200 primarily, you know, it is going from what I call, you know, 114 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.759 marketing communications. Right, so you deploy your awareness toxics and your demands 115 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:46.789 on tactics to a broader role where it's really a you know, you have 116 00:08:46.269 --> 00:08:52.950 the capacity to be much more involved in transformative initiatives across organization. You know, 117 00:08:54.070 --> 00:08:56.700 it could be business planning, could be the way that we're going about 118 00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:01.299 our our business planning, which were actually just went through the media fly and 119 00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:07.299 was largely influenced by marketing. It could be driving deeper cells alignment with sales, 120 00:09:07.379 --> 00:09:13.570 like you just talked about, right, and it could be truly broughtening 121 00:09:13.250 --> 00:09:18.289 the role of the CML as the chief market officer. You know, not 122 00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:26.399 the chief marketing officer is marketing, suggests again, tactics, right, but 123 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.120 the person that keeps their finger on the pulse of the consumer, I mean, 124 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.960 or the buyer, I guess, because you know our cases be to 125 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.590 be the buyer and and how the buying behaviors change. And that's a much 126 00:09:39.669 --> 00:09:43.909 bigger job. Right and beyond that, even, you know, talking about 127 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:48.230 the day today, honestly, where it feels like. If you for those 128 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:52.710 of you folks out there that want to be CMOS or be piece of marketing, 129 00:09:52.059 --> 00:09:56.500 if you want to, if you think you will only be doing marketing, 130 00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:00.659 think again because on any given day, you know, besides everything where 131 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.899 we talked about, you could be doing global, global operations. You know, 132 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:07.730 if you're managing a global team, Global Marketing Team, and your you 133 00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:09.450 have the global hub in the US, which is usually the model, and 134 00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:15.049 then regional hubs and local, local teams. There's a large part of that 135 00:10:15.090 --> 00:10:18.409 job is operations, is getting, you know, the teams across the world 136 00:10:18.450 --> 00:10:24.320 to all march the same the same tomb. Right, you're in human resources, 137 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.759 because you're dealing with resource issues and hiring and so on, and not 138 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:31.240 necessarily just within your team but within the entire the rest of the company. 139 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.389 So and and of course, you know there's a if you're in a smaller 140 00:10:35.509 --> 00:10:41.309 company, versus a big company. The smaller companies. You tend to our 141 00:10:41.309 --> 00:10:43.990 multiple hats and I think you can touch other disciplines more so. And then, 142 00:10:45.110 --> 00:10:48.590 of course, your role will also depend on what stage is your growth, 143 00:10:48.669 --> 00:10:52.500 is your company, and right, I mean so, for exactly my 144 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:58.379 example. You know, when I started marketing media fly, was it about 145 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.820 two years ago? We were building marketing from the ground up. Right, 146 00:11:03.299 --> 00:11:07.649 we build a marketing team for scratch and it had developed a strategy and deployed 147 00:11:07.690 --> 00:11:11.450 the tactics against it and at the time was very much okay. I need 148 00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:15.889 to bring build awareness, because nobody knows about media fly and the category is 149 00:11:16.289 --> 00:11:18.039 not that mature. People don't really understand selves and ablement. And then, 150 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.879 oh, we need to drive, you know, generate tipeline. So we 151 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.159 need demand tactics to write. So at that point is what I call the 152 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:28.519 foundation, and you have to do that. I had to do the foundation. 153 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:35.110 I wouldn't have been trying to influence business strategy across the company or jump 154 00:11:35.230 --> 00:11:43.509 into strategy discussion with ahead of sales when I barely had the fundamentals of marketing 155 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:46.909 built in. DOES THAT DESIGN EXPENSE? Yeah, it does, it doesn't 156 00:11:46.950 --> 00:11:50.299 it. It's got me thinking. You know what's the this is? This 157 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:56.460 is a lot just day one, starting out the things that it sounds like 158 00:11:56.539 --> 00:12:01.340 you've got to grapple with right away, and so that mean thinking what's and 159 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:03.769 maybe you know, I don't know if you know this an apple. What's 160 00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:09.490 the average ten year for CMOS relative to the rest of this sea suite? 161 00:12:09.649 --> 00:12:15.129 And then I guess gets into this question of like why, why are folks 162 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:18.840 failing at it at at whatever that rate? Is Perfect time to ask me 163 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:20.720 that question. I was at a conference earlier this week. It was a 164 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:26.879 CMOL conference, and they mentioned that later statistic, which is longer than you 165 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.000 probably think. So it's actually four years. Is the average ten year. 166 00:12:30.070 --> 00:12:33.190 Now, okay, the last number I had heard was two years, but 167 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:37.909 apparently that was no statistic of ten years ago. So the new one is 168 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:41.070 four years, and so I think that's a good thing. So we're lasting 169 00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:46.379 longer and I do think it's because you're seeking the broad me of the role 170 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.019 right. So you're true. I'm more of a strategic advisor to the entire 171 00:12:52.019 --> 00:12:54.700 organization. I mean, look, if you're going to have a senior title, 172 00:12:54.500 --> 00:13:00.690 you should be advising and driving growth across your organization with the rest of 173 00:13:00.769 --> 00:13:05.529 your peers in the exocted executive team, right. That's your job. Otherwise 174 00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:09.250 you shouldn't have seen the same for sure, and I hopefully this is happening 175 00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:13.120 more and more, and that's why we're seeing. We're seeing that average one. 176 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.120 You're being for four years. But here's another statistic. So that was 177 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.960 interesting that I heard, which is more more gloomy, which is a thinking 178 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:28.549 was only twenty five percent of CEOS trust their CMOL. HMM. However, 179 00:13:30.389 --> 00:13:35.950 as a frame of reference, ninety percent of CEO's trust their CFO. And 180 00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:39.110 then here's another one like that I think is related. I think only twenty 181 00:13:39.149 --> 00:13:43.220 five percent of CEO's come from marketing, and so if I triangulate all of 182 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:46.860 this, I think what that tells me is because most CEOS don't come from 183 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.740 marketing, they don't really understand or relate to it. Right. Well, 184 00:13:50.779 --> 00:13:52.379 they have less of a trust factor because, I mean, they don't really 185 00:13:52.379 --> 00:13:58.690 know what you're doing potentially, and it was a CFO because it's a soul 186 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:03.009 numbers, and I likely also and many CEOS come from finance. So there's 187 00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:07.370 a there's a comfort level there, right. So I don't say what I'm 188 00:14:07.370 --> 00:14:11.519 getting at is I don't know how much the perceptions the reality. Today's gross 189 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.360 story is all about search engine marketing. The company were highlighting is sentinel one. 190 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.519 This challenger Cybersecurity brand was set out to disrupt the endpoint protection space. 191 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:26.350 Their brand was top notch, their product was innovative, but they were struggling 192 00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:31.230 to gain traction online in an already developed industry. 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All right, let's get back to this interview. 199 00:15:03.169 --> 00:15:07.009 So when it comes to white folks fail, those folks who don't make it 200 00:15:07.090 --> 00:15:09.919 the four years, who don't make it past the four years, where are 201 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:11.879 some of the reasons why you think that happened? Yeah, so, I 202 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.480 would say. So. I think about the answer for me there is two 203 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.639 buckets. is into buckets. Fun is what's on us, and then the 204 00:15:20.429 --> 00:15:24.070 other is more external factors that we don't control as much. So, as 205 00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:31.750 far as you know, why they fail is for the for the former, 206 00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:37.179 I would say they fail because they're not keeping their finger on the pulse of 207 00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:41.580 the the consumer and how things are changing. But you need to get ahead 208 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:46.539 of those strands, otherwise by the time you figure it out is probably to 209 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:50.570 relate. The second one is, you know, there's a lot of noise 210 00:15:50.250 --> 00:15:56.409 around marketing organizations. Everyone has an opinion, let's be honest, and because 211 00:15:56.450 --> 00:16:00.769 there's some subjectivity to it. So it's really a combination of art and science. 212 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:03.009 Yes, there's a lot of analytics and there's data and we should be 213 00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:07.159 looking at that, but there's also, you know, a certain amount of 214 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.559 subjectivity and and listening to your gut and taking some risks and and and testing 215 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.960 things right, and so there's a there's to be a lot of noise or 216 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:22.629 on marketing, and so it's it can be easy to lose sight of what 217 00:16:22.870 --> 00:16:26.470 you think is the right thing to do. MMM, does that make sense? 218 00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:32.389 Yeah, yeah, it does, and it becomes the lot of voice 219 00:16:32.470 --> 00:16:37.100 in the room. You know, wins the argument or it's the priority, 220 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:38.419 usual, as I call it, or get maybe not usual, be of 221 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:41.259 the week, right, let's go do this, this, this initiative, 222 00:16:41.259 --> 00:16:44.179 a lunch, this campaign, or I have this idea, and then you 223 00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:47.809 kind of bunsting, bouncing around and doing too many things and perhaps actually not 224 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:52.690 doing the most important thing. And I think that's on you as a cml 225 00:16:52.730 --> 00:16:56.970 right to control that. But that also leads me to the other side of 226 00:16:56.129 --> 00:17:00.879 why CMOS fill, which is the priorities that are set for them within the 227 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:06.200 organization. The priorities are set for them by the CEO, right, and 228 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:07.359 so I think that's something you have to be very clear on. When you 229 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.359 take on a cm roll. What is the CEOS expectation of the role? 230 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.950 You know, going back to where we start our conversation, there's a broad 231 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:18.430 any of the role, but at the origin there's you know, there's some 232 00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:22.630 some some key areas where there's there's a marketing, communications role, where it's 233 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:26.430 it's primarily like self support and you're driving me, like the mansion tactics, 234 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:33.220 and then there's perhaps a broader roll from there that also encompasses more like owning 235 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:37.619 the customer and the market and truly influencing, you know, the product road 236 00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:41.900 map and innovation. And then it goes bigger from there where there're CMOS that 237 00:17:41.980 --> 00:17:47.690 I have enterprised why responsibilit using incorporate sales and they're running. Sales, are 238 00:17:47.690 --> 00:17:51.890 running innovation on song and right. So there's definitely different levels. And so 239 00:17:52.170 --> 00:17:56.089 going to the role is understanding what is the company really need out of the 240 00:17:56.130 --> 00:18:00.599 CMOL? And from there then how do we define the role and then how 241 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.599 do we define the priorities? And but I know, by the way, 242 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.319 how what a success look like. What am I being measured on by? 243 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.480 That's not clear. You can really being taken too many different directions and not 244 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.829 for certain things and you don't you don't want the goal post to be constantly 245 00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:22.549 moving. Yeah, but I can be very hard. Yeah, I imagine. 246 00:18:22.710 --> 00:18:25.069 And so that answers a lot of the questions I was going to ask. 247 00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:29.180 which word, you know, sort of what, going in should a 248 00:18:29.299 --> 00:18:33.339 person consider when they're, you know, wanting to make sure that they last 249 00:18:33.619 --> 00:18:36.220 in this role? And I think you're absolutely right that it has to do 250 00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:41.650 with making sure that you're completely clear on what the expectations are to begin with 251 00:18:42.089 --> 00:18:45.089 M it's so that, like that, you also said, this moving of 252 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:48.329 the goal post thing doesn't happen, because that's frustrating at any level. I 253 00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:55.170 imagine extremely could be extremely frustrating as a CMO. So thanks for for laying 254 00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:59.440 that out for us for those folks who are who are also out there just 255 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.319 starting out in this role and, you know, wanting to to last. 256 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.119 In addition to what you just told us, before we move on to the 257 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.470 next segment, can you give us a couple of things that have been working 258 00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:15.910 for you as far as how to avoid some of those those pitfalls that take 259 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:19.150 folks out of this role? So I don't have a braid like a you 260 00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:23.660 know, breakthrough or shutting answer for you. It always goes back for me 261 00:19:23.779 --> 00:19:30.700 to communication, communication and dialog. That's too to be that some most important 262 00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:37.690 thing in any relationship, personal professional. So you're reporting to CEO. Have 263 00:19:37.890 --> 00:19:41.650 the conversation. Things are not clear, things are not working. I don't 264 00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:45.690 understand. I've lost track of what you need. What you what my priorities 265 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:48.329 are. Be Honest about you can be polite about it. I'm not saying 266 00:19:48.569 --> 00:19:52.319 you you wrote about but you need you need to have the conversation and I'll 267 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:56.279 be very transparent. We just went through that on media fly. You know, 268 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.720 I have a I I'm likely to work with the CE CEO. That 269 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:11.269 very inspiring, very caring, very goal oriented person. But because he's caring, 270 00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:15.789 he's very you know, he's he's a he's an open book, right, 271 00:20:15.869 --> 00:20:19.190 and he you can talk to him about anything. He listened, he'll 272 00:20:19.710 --> 00:20:26.180 give you feedback. So we we had the very open discussion about it where 273 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:30.460 I felt like I was losing track of my priorities, in large part because 274 00:20:30.460 --> 00:20:33.539 of what was going on around the organization, and we, you know, 275 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:36.769 kind of real re established orders, to speak, and that came out of 276 00:20:36.890 --> 00:20:41.049 several conversations and, frankly, frustrations we're having with each other and we figure 277 00:20:41.049 --> 00:20:42.569 it out. You know, we figured on a big way. So you 278 00:20:42.690 --> 00:20:47.490 gotta you gotta Speak Up, you got to put out there and hopefully you 279 00:20:47.930 --> 00:20:51.640 reporting to someone who can do the same, because communication has to be one 280 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:53.319 way. Can't be two ways. I mean you know both ways. They 281 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.400 can't be just one way. Yeah, I think that that's a great answer. 282 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.519 Certainly, I attend to not trust folks who are like, all right, 283 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.390 here's how you're going to win every single time. I'm so the bus. 284 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.549 You're like. Look, man, you just got to communicate and pay 285 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:11.750 attention and stay up to date on what the expectations are and do the best 286 00:21:11.750 --> 00:21:14.869 you can, and it's I think, that's how you all you can do 287 00:21:15.069 --> 00:21:18.819 to succeed at really anything. So I love the way that you talk about 288 00:21:18.859 --> 00:21:21.980 what you do. I love the transparency that you gave us today in the 289 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:25.740 way that you laid all of this out. Thank you so much. Congratulations 290 00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:30.819 again. I expectable to your name one many lists to come alongside of the 291 00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:33.609 powerhouse marketers. But now that I've successfully picked your brain, is Abelle, 292 00:21:33.609 --> 00:21:36.329 and seeing what I could get out of it, it's time for you to 293 00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:38.450 tell us about what you are putting in it. So tell us about a 294 00:21:40.009 --> 00:21:42.809 learning resource that you engage with that is, you know, informing your approach 295 00:21:42.849 --> 00:21:48.200 or that's just got you excited these days. Yeah, so, you know, 296 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.119 it's interesting for me and I don't know that anyone or everyone can have 297 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.200 access to this, but I'm like you. I'm lucky to have, you 298 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.279 know, a great advisor on our board. So we have a functional board. 299 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:06.750 So where we have advisors, the represent the different deparments, and so 300 00:22:06.829 --> 00:22:11.670 I get a lot of knowledge out of that, that person and including previous 301 00:22:11.710 --> 00:22:15.069 advisors from the board and, you know, having one on one interactions and 302 00:22:15.309 --> 00:22:18.980 and so related to that, you can also go to other cmos within your 303 00:22:18.019 --> 00:22:23.420 network and so on. I get a lot of out of HPR, the 304 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:27.900 Harvard Harvard Business Review, as a resource. Yeah, lots of stuff around 305 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:33.730 marketing there. That really has got me thinking and I mean I would say 306 00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:36.849 those the primary things. I've used marketing props a lot in the past. 307 00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:38.170 You know, it's a little more tactical, but it is a great way, 308 00:22:38.210 --> 00:22:41.890 I'm to have some great webinars, you know, just sort of like 309 00:22:41.130 --> 00:22:45.359 shore up your knowledge on tactics that you may not be as knowledgeable and I've 310 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.119 heard great things about their annual conference. I have not attendant, but I 311 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.440 fould very, very good things. But for me, my primary source is 312 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.000 going to people, you know, other CMOS that, frankly, have been 313 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:57.869 doing any way longer than me and and and getting your advice. I love 314 00:22:57.990 --> 00:23:03.190 that. That's one of my favorite answers. Knowing how to just first of 315 00:23:03.190 --> 00:23:07.390 all understanding that the people around you are a resource and then knowing how to. 316 00:23:07.990 --> 00:23:12.460 You know pursue in leverage them as a resource. I think is a 317 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:15.619 skill in the IT self. So I love that answer. Thanks that are 318 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:19.059 working without to that, because it also related to your last question about, 319 00:23:19.059 --> 00:23:21.940 you know, sort of the every day and how do you make sure you 320 00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:25.539 know what fail is is. Yeah, don't be afraid to ask for help. 321 00:23:25.940 --> 00:23:29.009 You know. Yet don't expect that because you're the CMO, you have 322 00:23:29.089 --> 00:23:30.730 all the answers. I mean, I would be amazing. Hey, I 323 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:34.769 would love to say that, but I'm not that person. I don't have 324 00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:38.769 all the answers. So there is nothing wrong with saying I don't know, 325 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.559 but I know you're the impressing is knowing what questions to ask, knowing that 326 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.279 you have a problem. That's right, remising this some's not working, that 327 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.759 you need to fix it. You may not know how to fix it, 328 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:53.799 but you can ask for help on how to fix it. But the most 329 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:59.349 important thing it's recognizing you know where you need to focus because something is not 330 00:23:59.470 --> 00:24:03.349 working. Excellent Advice, Isabel. I know that everybody listening, just like 331 00:24:03.470 --> 00:24:06.309 me, has become fast fans of yours. are going to't want to know 332 00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:08.230 how to keep up with you. Tell folks, let's easiest way to connect 333 00:24:08.230 --> 00:24:11.380 with you. So best way to connect with me is on Linkedin. I 334 00:24:11.380 --> 00:24:15.859 would say find me on linkedin again. It's is about Papullias and I'm usually 335 00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:19.059 quite responsive. They're good will. Thank you so much, like I said, 336 00:24:19.099 --> 00:24:22.779 for you gave us, gives everything. You gave us insights, you 337 00:24:22.819 --> 00:24:26.009 gave us transparency. It's everything I ever want for this show. So super 338 00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:29.609 glad you came on to talk to us today. I will have to have 339 00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:32.970 you on again further down the line to talk about your first a look back 340 00:24:33.009 --> 00:24:36.930 at her first years a CEU Mo, but it's still then. Will close 341 00:24:36.970 --> 00:24:41.519 it out. Thanks. Thanks so much as well. Thank you. We 342 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.839 totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it 343 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:48.359 can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BETB 344 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:53.390 growth big three, a no flush email that boils down our three biggest takeaways 345 00:24:53.470 --> 00:24:59.789 from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at sweet fish, mediacomlash 346 00:24:59.869 --> 00:25:03.109 big three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOMA Big Three