1229: How to Instantly Connect with Anyone You Want to Know w/ James Carbary

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:10.189 Hey, this is james a sweet fish and this episode is a really special 2 00:00:10.230 --> 00:00:13.390 one for me. As a lot of you know if you've been listening to 3 00:00:13.589 --> 00:00:18.070 show for a little bit, I release my first book in January called content 4 00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:22.379 based networking, and this interview is actually an interview that I did on the 5 00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:27.859 marketing book podcast with the host of the books series for bb growth, Douglas 6 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:32.579 burdette. If you are not already subscribed to the marketing book podcast, you 7 00:00:32.659 --> 00:00:36.289 should absolutely check it out. If you get value from BB growth, you 8 00:00:36.369 --> 00:00:40.490 are definitely going to get value out of the marketing book podcast. But I 9 00:00:40.570 --> 00:00:44.649 wanted to just give a little bit of context here because of the microphone is 10 00:00:44.770 --> 00:00:49.130 flipped. I'm usually logan to myself or usually the one one's doing the interview. 11 00:00:49.649 --> 00:00:55.159 In this interview I am being the one interviewed on Douglas Burdett's podcast. 12 00:00:55.280 --> 00:01:00.560 We just wanted to restream that podcast over on this channel as well. So 13 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.909 again, if you have not already subscribed to the marketing book podcast, make 14 00:01:03.989 --> 00:01:07.750 sure you do that. Douglas Burdett has a great series on this show, 15 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:11.989 the book series. Just look for Hashtag books and you can check out the 16 00:01:12.469 --> 00:01:18.069 interviews and conversations that he has with his cohost of that series, James Mure, 17 00:01:18.700 --> 00:01:21.939 and I hope you get a ton of value out of this episode of 18 00:01:22.099 --> 00:01:26.859 me talking about my book. So here we go. Wellcome through the marketing 19 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:32.540 book podcast, helping you keep up with bog smartness thinking and the quickly changing 20 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:37.530 fe of the modern marketing and now here's your home. That was Burdad. 21 00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:41.250 Hello. Thanks for joining me on the marketing book podcast, where each week 22 00:01:41.290 --> 00:01:45.010 I publish an interview with the author of a new marketing or sales book and 23 00:01:45.049 --> 00:01:48.840 which was named by Forbes, is one of eleven smart podcast that will keep 24 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.920 you in the know and, name by Linkedin, is one of ten podcasts 25 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:56.439 that will make you a better marketer. My goal for this podcast is to 26 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.640 help us both keep up with the latest ideas in the quickly changing fields of 27 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.230 modern marketing and sales. Don't worry about taking notes. You can find links 28 00:02:04.230 --> 00:02:07.789 to everything linkable in this episode show notes at Marketing Book Podcastcom. And, 29 00:02:07.949 --> 00:02:12.830 since you're a listener to the marketing book podcast, if I can recommend a 30 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:16.020 specific marketing your sales book or some other helpful resource that I know of for 31 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:21.060 whatever situation you find yourself in. Feel free to connect with me on Linkedin, 32 00:02:21.139 --> 00:02:23.099 where we can chat and I'll try to point you in the right direction 33 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:28.139 and save you some time. This show is a labor of love that I 34 00:02:28.180 --> 00:02:30.849 do in my spare time. My Day job is running a marketing agency or 35 00:02:30.889 --> 00:02:36.409 where we work with manufacturers and industrial companies to help them grow by helping them 36 00:02:36.490 --> 00:02:39.969 earn the attention and trust of their perspective customers. FOR MORE CHECK OUT OUR 37 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:46.960 GUIDE TO LEAD generation for manufacturers on our website, sales artillerycom. or Google 38 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:52.000 lead generation for manufacturers and you'll find the guide a top the organic results. 39 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:57.439 And now on with the show. Today we welcome James Carberry to the marketing 40 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:01.069 book podcast to talk about his book content base, networking, how to instantly 41 00:03:01.229 --> 00:03:07.870 connect with anyone you want to know, published by Lion Crest. James carberry 42 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.590 is the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for B Tob Brands. 43 00:03:10.629 --> 00:03:15.379 He Co hosts the B tob growth show at daily podcast, dedicated to 44 00:03:15.460 --> 00:03:20.900 helping be tob marketers achieve explosive growth. James has interviewed World Class thought leaders 45 00:03:20.979 --> 00:03:24.340 like Gary Vader Chuck and Simon Senec and Douglas Fordett and has been a contributor 46 00:03:24.620 --> 00:03:31.810 for Huffington Post, entrepreneur and business insider and interesting facts. He Loves Cherry 47 00:03:31.889 --> 00:03:37.650 Cooke Zero, eating red vines, liquorice and listening to Taylor Swift James. 48 00:03:38.009 --> 00:03:43.039 Congratulations on content based networking and welcome to the marketing book podcast. Thank you 49 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.599 so much, Douglas. been looking forward to this for a really long time, 50 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.319 so I so super surreal to be on the side of the mic with 51 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.400 you. You and me both brother. And just so the audience knows, 52 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:58.069 his official bio does mention interviewing gator, Gary Vanderd Chuck and Simon Senek, 53 00:03:58.150 --> 00:04:00.509 but not me, and I just am doing that to show that you know, 54 00:04:01.069 --> 00:04:05.030 your content doesn't have to be perfect. Occasionally you produce content with the 55 00:04:05.110 --> 00:04:09.750 wrong person, and I think that only happened once, and that was on 56 00:04:09.909 --> 00:04:13.219 episode two hundred fifty three of the B tob growth show man. I can't 57 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:16.860 believe you. You haven't taken that interview down. That guy kept talking about 58 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:19.899 books and he wouldn't shut up. And normally you are daily episode. Actually 59 00:04:19.980 --> 00:04:24.449 have more than one now that that episode went on for like a half an 60 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:28.970 hour or so. You know you're a charitable soul, but we're both big 61 00:04:29.009 --> 00:04:33.449 fans of t swizzle. Yes, and I was very excited to see STU 62 00:04:33.649 --> 00:04:40.240 heinekey mentioned in the acknowledgements. And you know, when you have a book 63 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.839 that's about how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. I mean 64 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:46.439 you, you really do need to pay homage to pop a bear, right, 65 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.759 STU Heinick, because his two book get a meeting with anyone. Yes, 66 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:55.189 his books are so, so good. Both of them just absolutely fantastic. 67 00:04:55.949 --> 00:05:00.430 Now I do want to say, James, that your book is very 68 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:06.620 unique for a variety of reasons, but in particular because of the respect that 69 00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:12.740 you show for your readers. And I just to demonstrate that, I want 70 00:05:12.779 --> 00:05:19.899 to read the entire introduction from your book. It says introduction secret. I 71 00:05:19.939 --> 00:05:24.290 don't read introductions and I have a hunch a lot of other people don't read 72 00:05:24.329 --> 00:05:27.329 them either, so I didn't bother writing one. You can now skip to 73 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:31.850 chapter one. Yes, I've never seen a introduction like that, but my 74 00:05:31.970 --> 00:05:35.680 hats off to you. And this isn't a long book, but it's really 75 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:42.439 jam packed with actionable information and a lot of fun, a lot of jokes, 76 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.920 so many jokes that I actually started taking pictures of some of the jokes 77 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:48.639 and posting them on Linkedin as I offer you. Look, I love that. 78 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:51.990 Yes, yes, you talk about Oprah and I started thinking, wait 79 00:05:53.029 --> 00:05:56.110 a minute, I want to be Oprah. Maybe I am oprah trapped in 80 00:05:56.189 --> 00:05:59.750 someone else's body. So, at any rate, loved it. I should 81 00:05:59.750 --> 00:06:02.230 also mention, though, full disclosure, James and I know each other and 82 00:06:02.709 --> 00:06:05.500 he did interview me a while back and he picked up the pieces of a 83 00:06:05.579 --> 00:06:12.980 shattered life after that and moved on and now once a month I do a 84 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:15.899 show for the be tob growth show. I do an episode for the be 85 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:18.370 tob growth show with my good friend James Mure, author the perfect clothes, 86 00:06:18.410 --> 00:06:23.689 and what we do is we recap the most recent books that were on the 87 00:06:23.730 --> 00:06:29.129 marketing book podcast. So there's a there's a lot of content based networking going 88 00:06:29.170 --> 00:06:30.250 on here. Hey, wait a minute, now I'm on. Do you 89 00:06:30.410 --> 00:06:35.720 card Barry Dang so well, your series has been fantastic. Douglast, I 90 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:39.759 appreciate you and James Jumping on. I mean it's probably what been on a 91 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:42.600 six or eight months since you guys have been doing that, just recapping what 92 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.639 you guys are are the the work you guys are already doing on this show 93 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:48.310 and really just, you know, repurposing it in a different, little bit 94 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:51.949 different format for for the folks listening to our show. It's been it's been 95 00:06:51.990 --> 00:06:57.589 really cool to hear your episodes come through and and our audiences is super engaged 96 00:06:57.629 --> 00:07:00.310 with it. Well, super well. I'm delighted to do it and James 97 00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:01.899 and I have so much fun. It gives us an opportunity to talk once 98 00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:05.540 a month and he is a, you know, part of the Alpha audience. 99 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:09.420 Is, as Mark Shaffer would say, he listens to every episode and 100 00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:12.699 you know what, he actually reads every book that's on the marketing book podcast, 101 00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:14.860 which I don't wish on anybody, but he wants to do it, 102 00:07:15.050 --> 00:07:18.529 so I know he's going to read your book along. So anyway, James, 103 00:07:18.569 --> 00:07:20.490 Hello, I'll talk to you at the end of the month, but 104 00:07:20.529 --> 00:07:27.009 I want to read one quote from the book and then start getting into it. 105 00:07:27.689 --> 00:07:30.439 So you say, here's what we're going to do in this book. 106 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.199 We're going to give you a framework called content based networking to work backwards from 107 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.319 the exact goals you have in mind, from the place you want to end 108 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.720 up, the connections that you need and the relationships that will help you achieve 109 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:48.430 your goals and dreams. And then, moving on, you talk about how 110 00:07:48.750 --> 00:07:55.350 content based networking is using content collaboration to build the exact relationships that can help 111 00:07:55.389 --> 00:08:01.220 you achieve your goals and dreams. Content based networking is figuring out the relationships 112 00:08:01.220 --> 00:08:05.860 you need to build to achieve your goals, going directly to those people and 113 00:08:05.139 --> 00:08:11.019 creating content with them. So, James Carberry, the audience can't see you, 114 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:13.889 but you know you're a very goodlooking guy. I think a lot of 115 00:08:13.970 --> 00:08:16.649 people I think you're pretty glamorous, you know, because of the people that 116 00:08:16.730 --> 00:08:22.490 you've interviewed, with one exception, and what I want to do is ask 117 00:08:22.610 --> 00:08:26.279 you to talk about a phone call. You wants God, and a reason 118 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:31.920 I'm mentioning that you're a glamorous person is that you probably get phone calls like 119 00:08:31.039 --> 00:08:35.879 this pretty much every day. But I want you to go back in time 120 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:41.990 and tell us about when you were at a Mexican restaurant in Dallas, Texas, 121 00:08:41.110 --> 00:08:46.549 and your roommate called you and he asked you the following question. He 122 00:08:46.590 --> 00:08:48.230 said, Hey, James, do you take a private jet to New York 123 00:08:48.230 --> 00:08:52.909 City to watch the New York giants play The Dallas Cowboys. So, James, 124 00:08:52.990 --> 00:08:58.500 tell us about that one particular incident. Yeah, so that's obviously a 125 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.379 phone call that you never expect to get. I had just I'd actually just 126 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:07.580 gotten back from spending two months in Zambia and in Africa. It was my 127 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:09.940 first time out of the country and so to get back in within a few 128 00:09:09.980 --> 00:09:13.250 days get a phone call like that to say hey, do you want to 129 00:09:13.250 --> 00:09:16.210 take a private jet to New York City? I was blown away. That 130 00:09:16.570 --> 00:09:20.649 came completely out of nowhere. How on it? It said, let me 131 00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.480 check with my paople or I got to check my calendar. Yeah, what, 132 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.559 we can visit right, something like that. But but yeah, it 133 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.679 was a sweepstakes that my roommates brother in law had one and it ended up 134 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.399 changing the rest of my life. So Barry Sanders, formerly of droid lions, 135 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.110 now the football hall of fame, he met you there and tell us 136 00:09:39.149 --> 00:09:45.950 about that person that you met on that trip and what happened afterwards. So 137 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:48.870 we get off the jet in New York City and Barry Sanders is there. 138 00:09:48.909 --> 00:09:52.940 Agreed us. So of course we all freak out that we're getting to meet 139 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:54.580 Barry Sanders and then we find out he's going to be watching the game with 140 00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:58.019 us later that night. And then we get on a private bus to take 141 00:09:58.059 --> 00:10:03.820 us around the city and I noticed that there's this guy on the on the 142 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:07.059 trip that's seems to be like you, organizing it. I don't know exactly 143 00:10:07.100 --> 00:10:09.730 what he's doing, but he's like telling the bus to pull up and tell 144 00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:13.649 them the bus where to stop and, you know, all throughout the day. 145 00:10:13.730 --> 00:10:16.490 And and so I end up connecting with them. Is His name is 146 00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:20.009 Jeff and as I as we go through the rest of the day, you 147 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:22.759 know, we just end up talking about faith, family, you know, 148 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:28.039 business life and it come to find out he actually is the owner of a 149 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:33.120 global logistics company and so his company works with companies like, you know, 150 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:39.230 verizon and sprint and a bunch of different companies and they manage logistics at events 151 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:43.750 like this, for different sweepstakes and events like the Super Bowl and the grammys 152 00:10:43.789 --> 00:10:46.710 and the Olympics. And and so I'm like, Oh, man, Jeff 153 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.139 is a really big deal and he just happened to, you know, really 154 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:52.940 enjoy New York and so when this trip came up, he was like, 155 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:54.620 Oh, I'll you know, I'll go ahead and be the on site person 156 00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:58.779 for this event. So I end up meeting the CEO of this Global Logistics 157 00:10:58.899 --> 00:11:03.649 Company because, you know, the happenstance and serendipity of winning the sweepstakes and 158 00:11:03.850 --> 00:11:07.769 Jeff and I ended up, you know, staying connected and ultimately that's that's 159 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:11.970 really the relationship, that the change, the Tra directory of my entire life, 160 00:11:13.210 --> 00:11:15.409 because he then called you up and said, Hey, can you run 161 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:18.409 one of my businesses in Florida? Right, exactly. Yeah, so I 162 00:11:18.570 --> 00:11:22.240 was working in an oil and gas company about a year year after that sweepstakes, 163 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:24.639 my phone rings. What I'm sitting in my office doing work that I 164 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:26.919 wanted to throw my head through the wall. I think I was doing some 165 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.559 sort of accounting work or it was, you know, is very low level 166 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.149 job at the oil and gas company where I was working at the time. 167 00:11:35.669 --> 00:11:37.309 And you know, I was twenty three years old, I think, at 168 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:41.870 the time, so very early in my career. And See Jeff calling me, 169 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:45.750 and we had talked a few times before that, so it wasn't completely 170 00:11:45.789 --> 00:11:48.700 crazy they to do be calling me, but I answered the phone and he 171 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:52.539 basically said, Hey, we've got an opening and the helicopter division of our 172 00:11:52.539 --> 00:11:56.100 business. WOULD YOU WANT TO MOVE TO ORLANDO? I was still in Oklahoma 173 00:11:56.139 --> 00:11:58.259 at the time, and he said, would you want to move to Orlando, 174 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:01.129 Florida, and help run the helicopter division of the business? And might 175 00:12:01.450 --> 00:12:03.289 again, my jaw hit the floor. But, but, I mean, 176 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:07.450 how many calls did you get like that every day? Anyway, thanks, 177 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:09.330 Card. It was it was hundreds. It was hundreds. Yeah, but 178 00:12:09.409 --> 00:12:13.009 this one you said, okay, I'll buy yeah. So, James, 179 00:12:13.129 --> 00:12:18.039 let's talk about food. In the book you say relationships are more than a 180 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.720 nice side dish. In Life, there the entree, the appetizer, the 181 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:28.120 side dish and really the whole buffet. So explain what you're talking about there. 182 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.629 Yeah, so, you know, it's crazy, to meet Douglas, 183 00:12:31.909 --> 00:12:37.190 that so many of us just leave relationships to happenstance, similar to you know, 184 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:41.629 there were the relationship with Jeff Right, like I didn't, you know, 185 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:45.820 I didn't try to win a sweepstakes and I'm not even the one that 186 00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:48.940 wanted it was my roommates brother in law. And through they happenstance of that 187 00:12:50.059 --> 00:12:52.179 experience, I end up meeting this guy who offers me a job and moves 188 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:56.659 me across the country to, you know, town where I end up meeting 189 00:12:56.700 --> 00:13:00.289 my wife and ultimately, you know, end up starting my own business because 190 00:13:00.330 --> 00:13:03.210 of this guy's mentorship over, you know, over the course of, you 191 00:13:03.330 --> 00:13:05.929 know, the three years that I worked for his company. And as I 192 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:09.450 think about that, I think about the reason that happened was ultimately because of 193 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:15.360 a relationship that I warmed with someone by accident. And I think so many 194 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:20.440 people are walking through life hoping that the right relationships fall into their lap. 195 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.000 They're hoping that they're able to connect with, you know, somebody that knows 196 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.590 the hiring manager at the company they want to work for. They're hoping that 197 00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:31.590 they run into, you know, their ideal customer at a conference or an 198 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:37.549 event. They're hoping that they bump into a referral partner that can, you 199 00:13:37.629 --> 00:13:41.460 know, end up helping them grow their business in a very strategic way and 200 00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:46.379 they're they're depending on hope and serendipity when reality, relationships are the whole kitten 201 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:54.179 kaboodle. And so if you can build a strategy around reverse engineering relationships with 202 00:13:54.340 --> 00:13:58.210 the right people, those relationships are ultimately what what are going to lead you 203 00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:03.529 to success in whatever it is you're pursuing, whether it's you know, be 204 00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:05.049 to be sales and marketing, which is the world that I live in and 205 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:07.929 you, of course, live in, or whether you're, you know, 206 00:14:09.049 --> 00:14:11.799 college graduate that's just out of college and trying to land, you know, 207 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:16.519 at the company that you really admire respect, whether you're an entrepreneur, like 208 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.960 you and I are, tried to trying to build your business, whether you're 209 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.429 an aspiring politician or like I can't think of a professional environment where having the 210 00:14:26.549 --> 00:14:31.549 right relationships don't carry any significance. But I don't hear any how I don't 211 00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:35.230 hear very many people talking about that. And so that section of the book 212 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:41.580 is talking about how really we undervalue relationships and how critical they are and we 213 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:46.259 don't think critically about how do we actually create them from scratch, instead of 214 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:50.899 just hoping that the right relationships fall into our lap, like and and. 215 00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:54.850 Of course they do. I mean serendipity happens. It happens every day. 216 00:14:54.929 --> 00:14:58.649 It happened with Jeff and and and. So I'm not saying that serendipity is 217 00:14:58.649 --> 00:15:03.129 a bad thing. I'm just saying that we shouldn't only be depending on serendipity 218 00:15:03.730 --> 00:15:09.960 to create relationships with people that can change our lives. Absolutely and the book 219 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.440 is very much about making things happen for yourself and revealing that, yes, 220 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.440 you can start making things happen for yourself, and also brought to mind so 221 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.789 many books that have been on the marketing podcast about sales, where it's don't 222 00:15:20.789 --> 00:15:26.029 sit around waiting for opportunities to happen. Yeah, start making them happen. 223 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:28.710 Are you know, or is jebb blunt and Anthony and arena will say, 224 00:15:28.750 --> 00:15:31.909 you know. Are you a rainmaker or you are rain barrel? Yes, 225 00:15:33.190 --> 00:15:37.299 so I want you to tell us another story, and other glamorous James carberry 226 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:43.820 story about explain a little bit more about what content based networking is. You 227 00:15:43.059 --> 00:15:46.899 talk in the book about how you once closed a business deal that often takes 228 00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:52.970 months or sometimes years to close, and James Carberry did it in less than 229 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:56.970 a week. Yeah, so, and this woman is still actually a friend, 230 00:15:58.009 --> 00:16:00.049 and that's what I love so much about this strategy, as you create 231 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:03.919 friends in the process. So what I saw, you know, kind of 232 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.919 coming with, you know, Eyes Wide Open, having not been I'd never 233 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.919 started a BETB company before, I'd never really had any experience in Bob in 234 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.350 sales and marketing, in anything whenever I started sweet fish and I came into 235 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:26.909 it thinking, man, I know that I have a very specific buyer in 236 00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:30.909 mind and for us in our business it's it's a VP of marketing at a 237 00:16:32.269 --> 00:16:37.539 be Tob Technology Company, typically assass company, that has fifty plus employees and 238 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:41.860 they might be interested in hiring a company to help them produce a podcast. 239 00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:48.009 Yeah, because Bob Tech companies are typically pretty progressive in their marketing and is 240 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:52.250 pretty high likelihood that in this season of time, you know, beat marketers 241 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:56.490 are looking for to add a podcast into their mix. And so, knowing 242 00:16:56.649 --> 00:17:02.480 that, I know that if I just do the traditional sales thing and I 243 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:07.400 reach out and I try to get them on a call or you know, 244 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.319 a lot of software companies would be getting them on a demo. In our 245 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:14.079 case is different. Obviously being a service, but instead of coming out of 246 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:18.589 the gate thinking that I'm offering them value by telling them that hey, I 247 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:22.269 can produce your podcast for you, it's not actually perceived as value right everywhere 248 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:26.670 coming out of the gate with an ask. I saw Chris Walker wrote a 249 00:17:26.750 --> 00:17:32.140 linkedin post about this yesterday. Actually it's he calls him fake asks and or 250 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:36.700 fake, fake value, because you think you're adding value, but you're product 251 00:17:36.700 --> 00:17:41.660 or service is not perceived as valuable on the front end. It's not until 252 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:45.210 they actually, you know, decide to work with you and get something from 253 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:48.009 your product or service that it's valuable to them. So on the front end 254 00:17:48.130 --> 00:17:55.289 I had to figure out how can I lead with value that's completely independent of 255 00:17:55.410 --> 00:17:59.240 my product or service, and that's something that I just I didn't see anybody 256 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:03.279 doing. Everything I saw about, you know, be tob sales advice. 257 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.519 You know, it was it was basically different ways to bring up your product 258 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.079 or service and see if somebody would be interested in it, and I thought, 259 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.750 man, just think there's a better way to do it. There is, 260 00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:18.230 and it brings some mind these sales people that say hey, can I 261 00:18:18.269 --> 00:18:19.789 get on the call with you for ten to fifteen minutes, and basically what 262 00:18:19.869 --> 00:18:23.670 they want to do is ask you a bunch of leading questions to try and 263 00:18:23.789 --> 00:18:27.259 get it your pain or whatever, so they can talk about themselves and it. 264 00:18:29.019 --> 00:18:30.460 You know, there was one part in your book where you said, 265 00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:33.539 which needs to be said, so much of the traditional approach to be to 266 00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:38.460 be sales just doesn't work anymore. Yes, yes, and so going back 267 00:18:38.500 --> 00:18:42.650 to the story you are alluding to, Douglas having this realization that if I, 268 00:18:42.809 --> 00:18:48.849 if I can lead with value completely independent of my product or service, 269 00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:52.410 there's a good chance this person will actually want to engage with me if what 270 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.680 I'm offering them is truly valuable. And so that's really you know, we 271 00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.680 came up with the concept of okay, well, what if we had some 272 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.559 sort of a content platform and we chose podcasting as that platform, and what 273 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.200 if we have this podcast and it's focused on talking to be to be marketers, 274 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:14.029 people that are practitioners, you mentioned earlier. You know, we've interviewed 275 00:19:14.430 --> 00:19:18.349 Gary V, we've interviewed Simon Senek, but the bulk of our interviews are 276 00:19:18.470 --> 00:19:22.549 actually with folks like this woman in the story that you alluded to. Their 277 00:19:22.789 --> 00:19:26.980 their VP's of marketing at Bebtech companies that have more than fifty employees, because 278 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.900 that's our buyer persona, and we talk to them not about our service. 279 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:34.619 It's not a pitch fast talking about a hey, why, why you should 280 00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:40.049 do a podcast with us. It's talking about their challenges, it's talking about 281 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:42.650 experiments they've run, it's talking, you know, the content of the show 282 00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:47.569 has nothing to do with our product or service. It has to do with 283 00:19:47.890 --> 00:19:52.809 actually being a valuable resource to other be tob marketers. So when I approached 284 00:19:52.849 --> 00:19:55.240 her and said, Hey, do you want to be a guest on B 285 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:59.039 tob growth, that was valuable to her, because a lot of marketers care 286 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.400 about their personal brand. They care about creating content that they can then share 287 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.000 on Linkedin and used to, you know, share their point of view, 288 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.910 their perspective, their experience in a very unique way, because you know, 289 00:20:10.990 --> 00:20:14.509 everybody's trying to advance their career on top of the fact that they don't know 290 00:20:14.509 --> 00:20:18.269 who's listening to this show, and so their next boss could be listening to 291 00:20:18.390 --> 00:20:21.190 the show, or somebody at a company that they want to work at next 292 00:20:21.230 --> 00:20:23.660 could be listening to their show, or their boss could end up listening to 293 00:20:23.779 --> 00:20:27.940 it and and realizing like, Oh, I didn't realize this person was as 294 00:20:27.980 --> 00:20:30.859 sharp as they are. I maybe need to think about promoting them, or 295 00:20:30.859 --> 00:20:36.970 yeah, like there's all. There's a wide variety of reasons why BB marketers 296 00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:38.769 would want to be featured as a guest on our show, but the reality 297 00:20:38.809 --> 00:20:45.049 is that value is completely independent of the thing that we sell them, and 298 00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:48.690 that's the magic of this strategy. Douglas, because when you lead with something 299 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:52.480 independent of your product or service, it allows you to have a conversation with 300 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.079 someone that's not contingent on them saying yes, we want to buy or no, 301 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:00.839 we don't. The uniqueness of this story is that most people that we 302 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.079 interview on the show are not ready to buy our service within six days. 303 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.710 Now she happened to be. They had just been talking about how they were 304 00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:08.829 going to do, you know, they were going to be focused on thought 305 00:21:08.829 --> 00:21:12.309 leadership for their CEO and they were looking at a podcast to possibly do that. 306 00:21:12.710 --> 00:21:17.190 And so naturally, at the end of our podcast interview, it came 307 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:19.660 up that you know, hey, that's actually what we do. And so 308 00:21:19.779 --> 00:21:23.700 the expedited, you know, deal happened in six days because there happened to 309 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:30.539 be a need for our service and because we reached out to her very specifically 310 00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:33.849 knowing, hey, there's a chance that she could actually be a fit to 311 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:37.569 work with us. We're going to create some content with her and then, 312 00:21:37.650 --> 00:21:40.490 on the back end, you know, we'll see if there's an opportunity to 313 00:21:40.609 --> 00:21:44.210 work together. It's nothing pushy, it's nothing, you know, nothing fine 314 00:21:44.490 --> 00:21:47.680 trying to sell. You are trying to create good content for your Audi exactly, 315 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:52.599 exactly, and and I think, I think doing that is is for 316 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:53.920 me, you know, if first of thought, well, maybe it's just 317 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:56.920 for my personality, you know, because I don't want to be, you 318 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.720 know, pushy, and then I just realize, Mayne, no, people 319 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.109 don't want to be sold to. Know absolutely, if there's only one thing 320 00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:07.829 from this interview, listener, I'm talking to you, people don't want to 321 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:11.710 be sold to, they want to be marketed to. Yeah, yeah, 322 00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:15.549 it's it's terrific and it brings to mind just a couple weeks ago. Is 323 00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:18.299 Given a talk to a local Public Relations Society of America Group and it was 324 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:22.700 about podcasting, and afterwards I was chatting with one of the people from Economic 325 00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:26.700 Development Organization in our region and she was saying, yeah, where we came 326 00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:30.730 to this because we're thinking about starting a podcast, and I said okay, 327 00:22:30.769 --> 00:22:33.289 you know. So I started asking some questions and she said well, we 328 00:22:33.329 --> 00:22:34.690 will. One of the people we want to reach a site selectors, and 329 00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:37.730 we want to tell them about how great this area is. You know, 330 00:22:38.049 --> 00:22:44.089 Yawn every economic development organization. I said, Gosh, you know, I 331 00:22:44.170 --> 00:22:45.160 haven't heard a whole lot about what you're trying to do here, but it 332 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:49.039 seems like it would be a lot more interesting to do a podcast where you 333 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:53.359 interview site selectors. Yes, it's so, you know, subtle difference, 334 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:56.960 and I I think she understood that. But I think she was being told 335 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.910 by all the experts on, you know, her board of directors as to 336 00:22:59.990 --> 00:23:02.549 what they want, because they think that you can still shout at people and 337 00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:06.789 they still have a captive. Just doesn't work audience. Yeah, yeah, 338 00:23:06.950 --> 00:23:08.750 so that don't work well. But let me ask you something. Now, 339 00:23:08.829 --> 00:23:12.140 in your book you're not saying go to a podcast. There's their talk about 340 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:15.579 some other things that companies could be doing they were to just because that's what 341 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:18.740 you do. That's one example, but what are some of the other types 342 00:23:18.819 --> 00:23:23.220 of content that are featured in the book where people created content with the people 343 00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:26.529 that they wanted to reach out to? Yeah, so I love that you 344 00:23:26.650 --> 00:23:30.849 asked that, Doug though, so many people think that, because of what 345 00:23:30.930 --> 00:23:33.130 we do, the only thing we're advocating for is people doing podcasts, and 346 00:23:33.250 --> 00:23:36.849 that's not at all the case. I mean you I've seen companies do this 347 00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:41.279 with full link, like documentaries, where they end up collaborating with a bunch 348 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.359 of different people that they could potentially do business with and featuring them in this 349 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.960 really well produced documentary. You could go that direction or you could go much 350 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:56.430 more simple and just do a little short, micro one minute videos like what 351 00:23:56.630 --> 00:24:02.509 Alan Gannett does on Linkedin, yes, where he interviews people via video for 352 00:24:02.710 --> 00:24:06.230 one to two minutes and post those videos on Linkedin. Yeah, he has 353 00:24:06.309 --> 00:24:08.710 like one question, one question. It's super simple, and now he's got 354 00:24:08.789 --> 00:24:11.539 like, I don't know, sixty five or seventy thousand followers on linkedin. 355 00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:15.660 When he started doing it he had I don't know, two or three thousand. 356 00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:19.460 I mean it's crazy like to see how much he's grown just doing that 357 00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:23.650 simple thing. Now I don't know that you know Alan is doing that specifically, 358 00:24:25.170 --> 00:24:26.529 you know how? You know? I don't know what the back in 359 00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:30.410 strategy is of that, of like how he's selecting the people that he's talking 360 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:34.009 to. I know he's like he's talked to some really powerful folks and when 361 00:24:34.009 --> 00:24:37.009 I saw him at content marketing world he didn't ask me a question. So 362 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:40.799 I just want to let you know that's where I stand with with my friend 363 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.039 Alan Gannett. But you know the other reason he's doing it. He just 364 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.599 loves doing it. It's so much fun. Yep, exactly, and so 365 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:49.240 that that's the other upside to it. But I think you can add a 366 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:53.269 level of strategy to you know, regardless whether it's a podcast, whether it's 367 00:24:53.269 --> 00:24:56.670 a video series. You know the story of the book. We share. 368 00:24:56.829 --> 00:25:00.990 You know somebody that you know. If you're an aspiring chef and you want 369 00:25:00.990 --> 00:25:06.109 to get in and build relationships with existing chefs in your area, you know 370 00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:10.019 what if you did and a series on instagram where you went into their kitchen 371 00:25:10.059 --> 00:25:12.819 and you took pictures, you know, behind the scenes of the different dishes 372 00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:18.259 that they're creating, and you ended up going live with a series of photos 373 00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:22.650 over the following week where you tag that head chef, you're speaking highly of 374 00:25:22.730 --> 00:25:26.329 the restaurant and your entire instagram channel could be focused on, you know, 375 00:25:26.450 --> 00:25:32.569 featuring local restaurants. Well, if you feature enough local restaurants and you're working 376 00:25:32.650 --> 00:25:34.609 with, you know, the head chef at each of those restaurants to create 377 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:40.119 that content and get the insights from them about what went into making the dish. 378 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:45.960 And so when you do that, through the process of that content collaboration, 379 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:51.230 you are building a legitimate friendship and relationship with these head chefs first and 380 00:25:51.269 --> 00:25:53.789 foremost. Yeah, exactly, and you've got to think that by the end 381 00:25:53.829 --> 00:25:59.869 of doing two or three different features in different restaurants, there's a good chance 382 00:26:00.349 --> 00:26:03.430 that you know, you you circle back, you go to lunch with one 383 00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:04.980 of those head chefs. Hey wanted to you know, wanted to tell you 384 00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:08.220 about how the series is going and how people are responding to, you know, 385 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.940 the content we created with you, and because they think so fondly of 386 00:26:12.019 --> 00:26:15.460 you, because and ask them for anything, you just wanted to feature them 387 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.529 and highlight them and make them look awesome. So of course they want to 388 00:26:18.529 --> 00:26:21.930 talk to you again. And when you talk to him again, you let 389 00:26:21.930 --> 00:26:22.930 him know like Hey, I just got out of, you know, cooking 390 00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.890 school and I'm, you know, really excited to kind of get it, 391 00:26:26.970 --> 00:26:29.970 get a shot at working at a restaurant. Well, one of those people 392 00:26:30.009 --> 00:26:33.839 that you built a relationship is likely going to either connect you to someone that 393 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.599 can help or they're going to say, Hey, we just had somebody you 394 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:38.240 know, quit last night. What would you think about, you know, 395 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.200 coming on board with us? And so you can see just the connection between 396 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:48.950 genuine relationships and the actually creating opportunities for yourself. That wouldn't have otherwise happened, 397 00:26:48.349 --> 00:26:52.829 and it happened on purpose. It didn't happen by accident. It was 398 00:26:52.950 --> 00:26:57.190 because you purposely set out to do content collaborations with people that could potentially help 399 00:26:57.190 --> 00:27:02.180 you. What I'm fearful of people hearing this and going, you know, 400 00:27:02.299 --> 00:27:04.859 okay, now I'm just going to manipulate people and I've yeah, I've got 401 00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:08.539 this agenda and I'm going to talk to, you know, talk to all 402 00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:11.180 these people, and if they don't want what I have to sell them, 403 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:15.660 then you know, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get pissed and 404 00:27:15.049 --> 00:27:19.369 and be upset. And I've seen some people that hear me talk about it. 405 00:27:19.809 --> 00:27:22.210 That's kind of where they go, is like, Oh, yeah, 406 00:27:22.250 --> 00:27:26.569 this is like another hack to try to like sell my stuff. Yeah, 407 00:27:26.569 --> 00:27:29.849 but when you're interviewing people, you're not saying did I mentioned that I run 408 00:27:29.890 --> 00:27:33.559 a be to be podcast agency? It's not about you. And and actually 409 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.480 that leads to it. Another point from the book that I want to ask 410 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.000 you about. Actually, I may just I may ask it an answer it. 411 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:44.630 You talk about how folks this is not some silver bullet, this is 412 00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:47.990 not some you know, magic easy button, you know, you just set 413 00:27:48.029 --> 00:27:49.390 it up and you're good to go right, which I think is the yearning 414 00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:52.990 of a lot of business people, like the ones who say I love advertising, 415 00:27:53.029 --> 00:27:56.390 I write a check and something happens. Not here, and that's where 416 00:27:56.430 --> 00:28:02.140 you explain you know this does actually take work. It's a marathon you're starting 417 00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:07.420 on and, very importantly, you say I believe relationships are about far more 418 00:28:07.539 --> 00:28:11.099 than just monetary or career results. So if you're simply trying to hack your 419 00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:15.730 way into someone's office or burst into someone's pocketbook without really caring about them, 420 00:28:15.809 --> 00:28:21.809 then this book isn't for you, and that's so true. Let's move on 421 00:28:22.130 --> 00:28:26.130 and talk about the framework for this content based networking. Although this is a 422 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:32.799 short book, it's seventy nine steps, seventy nine easy steps. I'm kidding, 423 00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.680 I'm a kidder. Oh No, no, there's only there's only three 424 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:40.079 steps. So let's let's touch on those briefly here. And let's start with 425 00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.470 goals, which I think is the one thing that so many businesses skip over 426 00:28:44.509 --> 00:28:47.950 because they think it's so obvious. Explain what you mean when you say that 427 00:28:48.029 --> 00:28:52.630 people confuse goals with dreams. When you think about goals, it's really easy 428 00:28:52.869 --> 00:29:00.180 to think of like, Oh, I want to be featured on inks fastest 429 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:03.460 growing, you know, the fat the fastest growing, you know, companies 430 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:07.740 in America. That's my goal. But what we say in the book is 431 00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:11.130 that's a dream. That's an incredible dream to be and and, quite frankly, 432 00:29:11.369 --> 00:29:15.329 that was my dream when I started the business. I'm I'm looking for 433 00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:18.329 guests for BEB growth off of, you know, all of these fastest growing 434 00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:21.769 company lists, and it was a dream for me to like, Oh man, 435 00:29:21.849 --> 00:29:25.799 how cool would it be if one day I can be on that list 436 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:29.000 of fastest growing companies? And so I'm talking to all these people that have 437 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:30.680 done it. You know, it's superinspirational. But that wasn't my goal. 438 00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:37.319 My goal was actually to connect with BB marketing leaders at companies that I knew, 439 00:29:37.829 --> 00:29:41.349 because, you know, we're big enough to be able to have the 440 00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:45.509 budget and the and the ability to pull off what we were trying to pull 441 00:29:45.549 --> 00:29:48.950 off for them and work with us. So so the difference between dreams and 442 00:29:48.470 --> 00:29:53.859 goals is that goals are much more centric around the actual person that you need 443 00:29:53.980 --> 00:29:59.779 to connect with that can make a decision about your product or service. And 444 00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:03.740 so it's thinking strategically about that. So, going back to the chef story, 445 00:30:03.259 --> 00:30:07.289 that aspiring chef that just finished cooking school, he had to be very 446 00:30:07.329 --> 00:30:11.089 strategic about what his goal was. His dream was to, you know, 447 00:30:11.170 --> 00:30:17.890 bet maybe a threestar Michelin chef, but his goal was to connect with local 448 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:22.960 head chefs in his area. And so getting clarity around the goal being the 449 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.480 people that you need to connect with is really the big takeaway from from that 450 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.279 section of the book. MMM, and in reading the book I realize that 451 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.519 I've made a colossal mistake over the last five years because I don't sell to 452 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:40.309 authors. I have no, no, I don't. Started this because I 453 00:30:40.589 --> 00:30:42.910 wanted to and I really love doing it, but if I did it right, 454 00:30:44.190 --> 00:30:48.470 I would be reaching out more to the folks that are our prospective of 455 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:51.299 customers and I've actually thought about doing that. But we can talk about we 456 00:30:51.339 --> 00:30:55.099 can talk about that later. But I want to read from one section that 457 00:30:55.220 --> 00:30:59.059 just filled me with all kinds of hope and it was where you say every 458 00:30:59.140 --> 00:31:03.700 person alive wants to be on Oprah's show. Why? Because she's inspirational, 459 00:31:03.859 --> 00:31:07.410 she's fun, she's energetic and she always shines the spotlight on the other person. 460 00:31:07.849 --> 00:31:11.009 OPRA doesn't Soak up credit, she isn't in this for her and she 461 00:31:11.289 --> 00:31:17.289 never has a self centered attitude. Oprah has one drive give back to others. 462 00:31:17.690 --> 00:31:21.039 She does this by inviting people on her show, making them look smart 463 00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:23.920 and funny and giving them a chance to share their story. Then she takes 464 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:29.119 that story and shares it with the world for others to see and be inspired. 465 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.470 I took a picture of that and I wrote I want to be Oprah, 466 00:31:33.750 --> 00:31:36.109 I don't necessarily want to be on the show. Yeah, I are. 467 00:31:36.589 --> 00:31:38.750 Thank you. Thank you. I Bro Oprah of the B tob sales 468 00:31:38.789 --> 00:31:41.309 and marketings. Yeah, but that's the great and you talked about it beyond 469 00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:45.069 that and normally, you know, somebody may be joking around, but it 470 00:31:45.309 --> 00:31:48.700 couldn't be more true. And I think one of the other larger points is 471 00:31:48.819 --> 00:31:52.740 look what it has done for her. Yeah, and so when you associate 472 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.700 yourself with the type of people that Oprah has featured on her show, she's 473 00:31:56.779 --> 00:32:00.650 now become probably way more famous than a lot of the people that she's, 474 00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:06.769 you know, interviewed over the years because she's associated herself with those people, 475 00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:10.569 has created content with those people and has done a phenomenal job of shining the 476 00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:16.200 spotlight on the other person. And so this approach of really being a journalist 477 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:22.480 in the space or the industry that you're in and almost like investigative reporting, 478 00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:25.200 like you're talking to people on the street. Yeah, they can, they 479 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:29.519 can buy your product or service, but they also have a tremendous amount of 480 00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:34.269 value to offer other people in the space. And so I see so many 481 00:32:34.309 --> 00:32:37.349 times where Douglas, I see a lot of people that want to get into 482 00:32:37.349 --> 00:32:40.869 podcasting and all they want to do is interview Gary V, and I'm just 483 00:32:40.990 --> 00:32:45.460 like like, like, I've interviewed Gary v. It was fun, it 484 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:47.660 was awesome. That was about it. Like it was like sixteen minutes, 485 00:32:47.779 --> 00:32:52.380 wasn't yeah, it was. It was sixteen minutes. And but let's be 486 00:32:52.579 --> 00:32:55.420 honest, James Carberry, let's be honest here. You were as excited as 487 00:32:55.460 --> 00:33:00.089 a thirteen year old girl at a Justin Bieber concert. I was, and 488 00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:02.210 when I met Gary v I was the same way and I said it, 489 00:33:02.289 --> 00:33:07.369 I admit it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with having aspirations of 490 00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:13.640 interviewing, you know, celebrities and influencers and Gary I've Gary vs played a 491 00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:19.319 massive part in my entrepreneurial journey just from consuming his content from a far and 492 00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:22.559 so getting to meet him, getting to do an interview with him, that 493 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.799 was, you know, Dream Come true for me. But the reality is 494 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.470 I get way more value from interviewing a VP of marketing at a BB SASS 495 00:33:30.549 --> 00:33:37.390 company that just raised their series e because, one, they have way more 496 00:33:37.509 --> 00:33:42.019 tangible value to offer our audience, because they're in the trenches, they're doing 497 00:33:42.099 --> 00:33:45.019 it, they're building campaigns and they're think in creatively about how they're bringing the 498 00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:49.539 product to market. And so the content I can create with them, where 499 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.980 Gary's content is obviously great. There's a reason why millions of people follow him. 500 00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:58.250 Yeah, but don't sleep on the practitioners in your space that are in 501 00:33:58.329 --> 00:34:01.170 the trenches doing this day after day after day, who are not being asked 502 00:34:01.609 --> 00:34:06.089 twenty seven million times a day, like Gary V is, to be featured 503 00:34:06.329 --> 00:34:10.519 on, you know, to be featured on blogs or video series or podcasts, 504 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:15.280 and so by reaching out to those people, which you'll find is those 505 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:20.840 can actually be very strategic relationships for you. So not to completely disregard what 506 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:23.349 we said earlier about that. How that that can't you. This is not 507 00:34:23.469 --> 00:34:28.110 a manipulation game. This is not something where you're bating and switching. Know 508 00:34:28.269 --> 00:34:31.510 you are really trying to collaborate with these folks and create incredible content with them, 509 00:34:31.949 --> 00:34:37.900 but you're also intentionally creating relationships that can APP actually map to business results, 510 00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:40.860 and that's what I think is so powerful about this whole thing. Yes, 511 00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:45.380 and you talk in the book about how going after these big influencers actually 512 00:34:45.380 --> 00:34:50.699 can be counterproductive, which, of course, that's why you interviewed me. 513 00:34:51.739 --> 00:34:52.809 But I want to talk a little bit about the second one, which is 514 00:34:52.849 --> 00:34:57.570 the people. And, for instance, you talk about how you don't just 515 00:34:57.969 --> 00:35:00.809 believe in social media stalking, you really believe in social media stocking, and 516 00:35:01.690 --> 00:35:05.650 I felt better about that. But what are some of the DOS and don'ts 517 00:35:05.730 --> 00:35:09.559 of good outreach? For Yeah, setting people, and there's there's a lot 518 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.199 here. So one, I mean reaching out to someone asking to feature them, 519 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.079 is it is opposed to reaching out to someone asking, you know, 520 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.550 if you can sell them something. That's the spotlight effect, right. Yeah, 521 00:35:22.590 --> 00:35:25.989 that's the spotlight effect, and that's the biggest on lock here. If 522 00:35:27.030 --> 00:35:31.429 I mean rich like, it's huge. Whenever it changes the foundation of your 523 00:35:31.469 --> 00:35:37.380 entire ask is going to them and saying, Hey, I'm doing this, 524 00:35:37.780 --> 00:35:39.659 you know content series, I would love to feature you in it. That 525 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:45.019 alone puts you so much further ahead of the pack then all the other people 526 00:35:45.139 --> 00:35:49.460 that are in those folks and boxes. But some other things that you can 527 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:52.690 be really mindful of. One thing that I'm really passionate about is short messaging 528 00:35:53.250 --> 00:35:59.250 and getting to a very clear and direct call to action. So whenever I'm 529 00:35:59.250 --> 00:36:01.289 reaching out to someone to ask them to be on BB growth, I'm not 530 00:36:01.570 --> 00:36:08.039 sending them a seventeen paragraph email that says that we've interviewed Gary V and Simon 531 00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:12.840 cynic and that we get a hundred thousand downloads a month. Those are all 532 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.760 helpful things that could potentially get somebody to want to be on our show. 533 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:21.230 But it's not what I lead with, because I know people's at didn't like. 534 00:36:21.309 --> 00:36:23.190 They see a big, long email, they associate it with the being 535 00:36:23.309 --> 00:36:28.829 some spami sales request, like I do, and they just delete the email 536 00:36:28.829 --> 00:36:31.860 before they read any it right, and you keep yours to for sentences or 537 00:36:31.860 --> 00:36:36.260 less. Yeah, and sometimes less I mean two. Two to four sentences 538 00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:39.219 is really the sweet spot. It's hey, sally, saw that you were 539 00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:45.219 featured in Forbes last month. Would love to feature you on BB growth up 540 00:36:45.340 --> 00:36:50.769 for it question mark and so because them that just so short and it piqus 541 00:36:50.769 --> 00:36:53.369 their curiosity. The goal here, and I've heard you know there are other 542 00:36:53.849 --> 00:36:58.369 folks that you know espouse this message as well, so it's by no means 543 00:36:58.409 --> 00:37:02.639 unique. But the goal of the outreach is not to get them to commit 544 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:07.400 to doing an interview with you, it's to get them to respond. And 545 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.679 so so if you can get them to respond in any way, shape or 546 00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:15.309 form by saying something like up for it or any interest, something that's it's 547 00:37:15.349 --> 00:37:20.510 an easy question to answer, they're likely going to respond with I might be 548 00:37:20.670 --> 00:37:23.030 interested. You tell me more about our yeah, well, now they've replied. 549 00:37:23.230 --> 00:37:27.710 So now, like now, the likelihood of them replying again to your 550 00:37:27.750 --> 00:37:31.500 future messages is much higher. So so that's really the biggest one I would 551 00:37:31.579 --> 00:37:37.820 take away from from that particular section is being mindful of how you reach out 552 00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:40.659 to the people that you identify are, you know, the most strategic folks 553 00:37:40.699 --> 00:37:45.050 for you to be connecting with, and just be conscious of how they're feeling 554 00:37:45.449 --> 00:37:51.570 on the like, be empathetic about the barrage of emails that they're probably getting 555 00:37:51.929 --> 00:37:57.570 and thoughtfully think through what can I do to actually make them want to engage 556 00:37:57.610 --> 00:38:02.920 with men and short messaging and offering value up front that's completely independent every product 557 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:07.480 or service are the two biggest things that we've seen the most win, most 558 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:09.039 mental wins from. Yeah, here's two other examples from the book. Hey 559 00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:12.949 Paul, we're doing a series of videos about your industry and we'd love to 560 00:38:12.989 --> 00:38:15.829 feature you any interest. And here's another one. Hi Kim, we're working 561 00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:19.909 on an industry blog series and would love to feature you in it. Up 562 00:38:19.989 --> 00:38:24.269 for it. And notice both of those were personalized. This is, Yep, 563 00:38:24.389 --> 00:38:29.340 basic email marketing, but this is what has worked for you for so 564 00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:34.900 over a thousand interviews, right like you talk and then one of them that's 565 00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:37.940 and you say take a multichannel approach, don't rely just on email, but 566 00:38:38.019 --> 00:38:44.329 also prove you're not a scam, which was really resonated with me. How 567 00:38:44.369 --> 00:38:46.610 do you prove you're not a scam? Yeah, and people, I think 568 00:38:46.929 --> 00:38:51.130 I when I talk about this. This was originally higher up the list in 569 00:38:51.210 --> 00:38:53.289 the book and we ended up putting it putting it further down, because I 570 00:38:53.329 --> 00:38:58.559 think if you over emphasize trying to prove that you're not a scam, you 571 00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:00.239 end up doing things that actually make you look like a scam. You end 572 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:05.639 up writing those seventeen paragraph emails that are trying to establish your credibility. And 573 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.070 really proving you're not a scam is as simple as dropping your linkedin profile, 574 00:39:09.510 --> 00:39:15.230 your signature or, you know, doing something where folks can see that you're 575 00:39:15.269 --> 00:39:17.989 a real human so putting it, maybe putting your instagram account in the email 576 00:39:19.030 --> 00:39:22.429 signature right of what you're sending so people can click through and see, oh, 577 00:39:22.949 --> 00:39:25.659 this is a real guy, he's, you know, married, as 578 00:39:25.739 --> 00:39:30.099 three kids. You know he he's like me. It humanizes you. But 579 00:39:30.260 --> 00:39:36.659 don't overthink it. Don't think that you need to send seventeen paragraphs explaining are 580 00:39:36.699 --> 00:39:39.329 credentials. That's that's not what I'm saying here. Yeah, but there are 581 00:39:39.369 --> 00:39:43.530 subtle things you can do to prove you're not a scam. Yeah, one 582 00:39:43.570 --> 00:39:45.610 of the thing I want to ask you about is to talk about the discovery 583 00:39:45.690 --> 00:39:51.090 you had on your own show where you realized you weren't actually reaching out to 584 00:39:51.130 --> 00:39:54.679 the right people. Yeah, but then you still so you pivoted, but 585 00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:58.559 there were still benefits. Talk a bit about that and I reason I want 586 00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:00.760 you to talk about that is because people might think, oh, we might 587 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:04.679 make we might be making a mistake. That's fine. Yep, it is, 588 00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:07.510 and I'm glad you brought that up, Douglas. So we would the 589 00:40:07.590 --> 00:40:13.030 first hundred and fifty episodes that we did for BEDB growth. I was convinced, 590 00:40:13.150 --> 00:40:15.670 you know, and going back to what I said earlier, I had 591 00:40:15.909 --> 00:40:20.030 no experience in BB sales and marketing. I didn't know what I was doing 592 00:40:20.190 --> 00:40:22.139 when I when I first started this business, and so I was convinced like 593 00:40:22.179 --> 00:40:25.539 Oh, this podcasting thing, it's you know, we didn't have and we 594 00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:30.019 didn't know we'd hadn't named anything content based networking. At that point we're just 595 00:40:30.099 --> 00:40:32.940 like, man, what people can do with a podcast is really powerful in 596 00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:37.929 terms of relationships. What better team would, you know, benefit from this 597 00:40:37.969 --> 00:40:42.250 in an organization then their sales team? Like I just thought, well, 598 00:40:42.369 --> 00:40:45.449 this is how we're, you know, going to market and selling our product 599 00:40:45.449 --> 00:40:49.409 or services, creating all these relationships. Surely other sales teams would want to 600 00:40:49.449 --> 00:40:52.599 do the same. So for the first hundred and fifty episodes of BB growth, 601 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.599 we were talking to VP's of sales and then it was it was again 602 00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.159 over a hundred episodes before I was like, wait a minute, all these 603 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:04.909 v piece of sales that I'm talking to, they you know, in anytime, 604 00:41:04.949 --> 00:41:07.429 you know when it, when it comes up what we do and how 605 00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:10.590 we do it, they're always pointing me to their VP of marketing. They're 606 00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:14.150 always pointing me over to the marketing side of the House and I'm like man, 607 00:41:14.230 --> 00:41:17.070 but this is really so much more beneficial for sales. Why are they 608 00:41:17.110 --> 00:41:20.380 doing that? And of course I'm hard headed. So, you know, 609 00:41:20.500 --> 00:41:23.460 kept going, kept trying to interview, you know, sales leaders and finally 610 00:41:23.539 --> 00:41:27.260 just realize, well, James, because they don't have budget for this kind 611 00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:30.139 of thing. Like most people look at podcasting and they see that as a 612 00:41:30.179 --> 00:41:34.650 marketing activity. They don't see it as a sales activity. So quit trying 613 00:41:34.650 --> 00:41:37.170 to shove around peg into a square hole and just go talk to the people 614 00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:42.170 that actually carry budget for what you do. So we're fortunate in the sense 615 00:41:42.250 --> 00:41:44.849 of the name. We didn't have to change the name of the show than 616 00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:47.480 the name, you know, bb growth translates to whether it's sales or marketing. 617 00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.480 But we did have a significant shift and pivot and who we started featuring 618 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:55.559 as guests on the show we stopped reaching out to VP's of sales, we 619 00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.750 started reaching out to CMOS and VP's of marketing. We eventually realized, through 620 00:42:00.750 --> 00:42:05.269 a collaborative content series I did on having him post a while back, that 621 00:42:05.469 --> 00:42:07.429 CMOS, actually we're not the kind of people we needed to be talking to 622 00:42:07.630 --> 00:42:13.670 either. We needed to go one level lower and actually talk to the VP 623 00:42:13.750 --> 00:42:17.099 of marketing, because they're in charge of executing, at more at a ground 624 00:42:17.139 --> 00:42:22.659 level, the strategy that's that they're, you know, going to market with. 625 00:42:22.900 --> 00:42:27.219 And so there's a couple different epiphanies the the big one was realizing sales 626 00:42:27.260 --> 00:42:30.690 didn't have budget for it and so shifting the guest persona over into marketing and 627 00:42:30.769 --> 00:42:35.730 then thinking, seems possibly could you know, should be the people we're talking 628 00:42:35.809 --> 00:42:37.730 to. That one didn't take us as long to figure out, like no, 629 00:42:37.849 --> 00:42:42.090 it's actually not the CMO, it's the VP of marketing. But even 630 00:42:42.130 --> 00:42:45.360 if we did have to have to change the name of the show, I 631 00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.880 would have, I would have gladly done it because it meant actually creating relationships. 632 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:53.199 Now we've got over you one three hundred episode, so one thousand three 633 00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:57.639 hundred, a hundred and fifty. You look at it over there over the 634 00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.789 course of time. I would much rather have had to change the name of 635 00:43:00.869 --> 00:43:04.349 the show, rebrand a little bit to actually build relationships with the people that 636 00:43:04.429 --> 00:43:07.550 can really help us move the business forward, which is what happened. So 637 00:43:07.710 --> 00:43:12.269 the lesson there was don't be afraid to get started. You, if you 638 00:43:12.429 --> 00:43:15.300 make a mistake, still going to work out. You're going to listen to 639 00:43:15.380 --> 00:43:17.739 your audience and you're going to start to get closer. But the secret ahead 640 00:43:17.739 --> 00:43:25.619 getting ahead is getting started. I want to ask you about the importance of 641 00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:31.969 creating action oriented content, and the reason this particularly resonated with me is because 642 00:43:32.090 --> 00:43:37.530 I guess I'm more interested in that and that might explain why there are certain 643 00:43:37.530 --> 00:43:39.849 types of books I pass on, and yes, I'm talking about books on 644 00:43:40.010 --> 00:43:45.440 branding and brandon serious. Nothing smart people write them, but it's just not 645 00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:51.440 something that I think the listener can go do or start to think about putting 646 00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:53.519 an action when they get to work. Yeah, and so when you think 647 00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:59.349 about, you know, in our context with podcasting and really with a lot 648 00:43:59.429 --> 00:44:04.349 of content medium, maybe maybe not blogging as much, but in a setting 649 00:44:04.349 --> 00:44:07.869 where you know you're doing these fifteen minute interviews, twenty minute interviews, maybe 650 00:44:07.869 --> 00:44:13.579 a little bit longer. You really want the the consumer of that content, 651 00:44:13.659 --> 00:44:16.739 to be able to walk away and actually do something with what they just heard, 652 00:44:16.860 --> 00:44:21.340 and your example of branding is so spot on. Not that branding is 653 00:44:21.380 --> 00:44:24.409 not important. We all need that advice, but if you're going to be 654 00:44:24.489 --> 00:44:30.449 having a lot of these conversations, keeping them centric around you know what a 655 00:44:30.610 --> 00:44:35.769 tangible piece of advice that the that the guest can give, that can help 656 00:44:35.889 --> 00:44:39.239 move the the listener forward. That's going to be what really keeps a listener 657 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:44.280 coming back because you're making a tangible impact in their life and their business, 658 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:47.360 and you know what their industry, whatever the focus of your of your content 659 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.630 is. If they're starting to see wins because they're listening to what your content 660 00:44:52.750 --> 00:44:58.230 is saying or they're reading what your content is is espousing and they're actually able 661 00:44:58.269 --> 00:45:02.070 to implement and make a like move the needle, that's what gets them coming 662 00:45:02.110 --> 00:45:06.989 back, which is ultimately what you want as a as a content creator. 663 00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:09.619 So so that's why it's so powerful and, like you, Douglass, I 664 00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:14.300 think I put that in there because that's me as well. I really I 665 00:45:14.500 --> 00:45:19.460 love actionable it's like that's it's my preference and I have a feeling there's that 666 00:45:19.579 --> 00:45:22.250 we're not the only ones out there. Yeah, so let's go back to 667 00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:25.409 thing I one thing I did mentioned before we wrap up here, and that's 668 00:45:25.409 --> 00:45:30.929 where this the big name influencers like like you talked about, like the Gary 669 00:45:30.929 --> 00:45:34.570 Vander trucks of the world for the marketing world. Why is that sort of 670 00:45:34.690 --> 00:45:38.320 like the dog chasing the car and then and then catching it? What? 671 00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:44.440 Why is that actually not that good an idea? Yeah, it's not that 672 00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:49.440 good of an idea, because the reality is these influencers that you're chasing, 673 00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.309 I get the thinking behind why you want to chase them. Sure, because 674 00:45:52.750 --> 00:45:57.510 you think that they're gonna you know that Gary V is going to post your 675 00:45:57.590 --> 00:46:01.630 interview on twitter and it's going to blow up and go viral and you're going 676 00:46:01.670 --> 00:46:07.460 to get thousands of people consuming your content because Gary v retweeted you. And 677 00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:12.019 the reality is that just doesn't happen. I mean, the the people that 678 00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:16.139 have a lot of fame around their thoughts and ideas are because they themselves are 679 00:46:16.219 --> 00:46:22.809 putting out any enormous amount of content and they don't have the time, or 680 00:46:22.130 --> 00:46:29.289 really they it's not super strategic for them to share other people's content. They're 681 00:46:29.289 --> 00:46:34.079 sharing their own content and so you might get a retweet here there, but 682 00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:37.840 the likelihood of them emailing their list about you, the likelihood of them doing 683 00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:42.280 the things that you think they're going to do, is just very, very 684 00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:45.920 low. And so when I look at some of the most quote unquote popular 685 00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:50.030 people that we've ever had and I look back at our lips and statistics to 686 00:46:50.070 --> 00:46:52.789 see how many downloads those episodes are, I mean, Douglas, your your 687 00:46:52.949 --> 00:46:57.989 episode being, you know, very niche and in be in beb marketing. 688 00:46:58.989 --> 00:47:01.420 I think you would you would agree that, like you do not have quite 689 00:47:01.460 --> 00:47:06.139 the fame that a Gary that a Gary V or Assignmon Sinekas, but your 690 00:47:06.219 --> 00:47:09.539 episode performed just as well as those dead yeah, take that, Gary. 691 00:47:12.019 --> 00:47:15.090 When I look at that and I go it doesn't it doesn't. You interviewing 692 00:47:15.210 --> 00:47:21.010 Gary V and you interviewing a practitioner who's can actually, you know, is 693 00:47:21.010 --> 00:47:24.769 a decision maker for your product or service and has tangible wisdom for other people 694 00:47:24.929 --> 00:47:30.360 that are also decision makers that you want listening to your content. I would 695 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:34.360 challenge you to think, to look at them sidebyside and go oh, it 696 00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.960 actually doesn't really move the needle that much for me to go talk to these 697 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:42.519 influencers. It's so true. And and I've seen that too when I've had 698 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.869 some big deals on the show and they really don't share your interview that much. 699 00:47:46.909 --> 00:47:51.510 And that's why, James Carberry, I have no expectations that you'll share 700 00:47:51.510 --> 00:47:53.349 this, and that's fine. You know I'm good with that. I just 701 00:47:53.469 --> 00:47:57.150 want to be able to say I will definitely be shared. I want to 702 00:47:57.150 --> 00:48:00.260 be able to say that I interviewed James Carberry. So, you know, 703 00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:04.980 there you go. So but again you talk about some of the pitfalls is 704 00:48:05.139 --> 00:48:08.300 producing pine in the sky stuff that's not practical. Here's another one. Making 705 00:48:08.300 --> 00:48:12.889 it all about you. You can tell that pretty quickly in an interview and 706 00:48:13.010 --> 00:48:15.809 just like yeah, great, thanks, good luck with your podcasting career, 707 00:48:16.210 --> 00:48:20.250 because it's just not helpful, it's not interesting. And the other one that 708 00:48:20.369 --> 00:48:23.010 was very interesting. Again this is for those of you that don't think you 709 00:48:23.050 --> 00:48:29.639 should go start some content, but start creating content, is thinking that you 710 00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:31.920 need an audience beforehand to start. Well, it's build an audience first before 711 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:36.239 we start doing that. No, no, no, just get started and 712 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:38.239 you know I'll I'm not saying all your dreams will come true, because you're 713 00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:42.590 very clear that that doesn't happen. But this again, the secret of getting 714 00:48:42.590 --> 00:48:45.590 ahead, of just getting started, started. You're exactly right. I mean, 715 00:48:45.710 --> 00:48:49.630 I just pound that point home over and over and over again because, 716 00:48:49.630 --> 00:48:53.070 as I've talked to people about this over the last four years, it's that 717 00:48:53.309 --> 00:49:00.059 that seems to be the the sticking point and it's the people that actually just 718 00:49:00.940 --> 00:49:05.820 dive in and they're willing to iterate and change if they need to. The 719 00:49:05.980 --> 00:49:09.250 results that they see are so much quicker than the folks that him all around 720 00:49:09.289 --> 00:49:14.809 and overanalyze and think that, oh, you's got to be perfect for us 721 00:49:14.809 --> 00:49:17.809 to get started and to get going. It's just not true. Like, 722 00:49:19.289 --> 00:49:22.409 reach out to someone today, like we, regardless of whether you have a 723 00:49:22.489 --> 00:49:27.119 website up like you, don't have to have any of that. Just reach 724 00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:30.800 out to somebody and send them that three sentence to three sentence email and say 725 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:34.559 hey, I'm starting to work on a blog series that I think you would 726 00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:37.599 be fantastic on. I saw the article you wrote on Linkedin last week. 727 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:39.349 Would you be up for, you know, doing a fifteen minute interview with 728 00:49:39.469 --> 00:49:45.909 me? It's that simple. And we talked about personalization before, but beyond 729 00:49:45.070 --> 00:49:50.429 just using, you know, personalization for their name, find lists that they've 730 00:49:50.429 --> 00:49:52.739 been featured in, find content they've written in the past and if this is 731 00:49:52.820 --> 00:49:57.860 somebody that you really want to know and that can be a strategic relationship for 732 00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:00.659 you, there's you, you, you'd mentioned earlier social media stocking. They've 733 00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:05.300 probably written something or created something, or they spoke at a conference or they've 734 00:50:05.300 --> 00:50:08.489 done something going. Find that with the magic power of Google, yes, 735 00:50:08.650 --> 00:50:13.050 and reference that whenever you reach out to them. We found that that is 736 00:50:13.050 --> 00:50:16.289 a huge indicator that someone will actually want to engage with you, because it's 737 00:50:16.289 --> 00:50:20.289 like, Oh yeah, I did speak at that conference six months ago and 738 00:50:20.530 --> 00:50:22.280 I did already prep a talk. Sure, I'd love to. I'd love 739 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:25.760 to repurpose of the work I already spent, you know, weeks and weeks 740 00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:30.000 prepping for to also talk to you. So it's just we've seen it proven 741 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:35.079 out so many times that this works. Just get started, yes, don't 742 00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.949 get in your head. And to the lesser, I'd like to say be 743 00:50:37.150 --> 00:50:42.630 honest, you already know how to social media stock people anyway. So stop 744 00:50:42.710 --> 00:50:45.110 acting like you you don't know how to do that. So, James, 745 00:50:45.150 --> 00:50:47.269 if readers took only one thing away from the book, what would you hope 746 00:50:47.269 --> 00:50:51.699 it would be? It's going to sound like, you know, I'm beating 747 00:50:51.739 --> 00:50:54.099 a dead horse. Repetition is a good thing, James. The one thing 748 00:50:54.139 --> 00:50:59.739 I would want somebody to walk away with is, legitimately, to think about 749 00:50:59.739 --> 00:51:05.409 a single person, like I've always wanted to know this person because they could 750 00:51:05.409 --> 00:51:07.329 move the needle for me and so in some way, or I just want 751 00:51:07.369 --> 00:51:14.250 to learn from them or you know something. Think of one person and reach 752 00:51:14.289 --> 00:51:16.449 out to them today. So that's the I think, the one thing that 753 00:51:16.570 --> 00:51:22.199 you can do and collaborate with them on some piece of content. It could 754 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:24.320 be a linkedin video, doesn't have to your you don't even have to commit 755 00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:29.679 to an ongoing series of content, but figure out a way to create a 756 00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:32.989 piece of content with a person that you actually want to know and then go 757 00:51:34.190 --> 00:51:37.630 do it and when you see how men like, how well it works, 758 00:51:37.909 --> 00:51:39.190 you're going to want to keep doing it over and over again. Yes, 759 00:51:39.989 --> 00:51:46.139 a great advice. What books have inspired your working career, James? Yeah, 760 00:51:46.219 --> 00:51:52.219 so the biggest one is, I'll say to here, love does by 761 00:51:52.420 --> 00:51:55.340 Bob Goff, which is not actually a business book at all. It's a 762 00:51:55.659 --> 00:52:01.650 really a collection of stories how that display this reality that love is an action. 763 00:52:02.010 --> 00:52:07.090 Love is not just something we do passively. Love is something we actively 764 00:52:07.289 --> 00:52:13.690 do. And so just these really beautiful stories of how different people have have 765 00:52:13.969 --> 00:52:16.559 shown love to the people around them. It's made a huge impact on how 766 00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:21.039 we built our culture here at sweet fish, how I try to interact with 767 00:52:21.079 --> 00:52:24.960 our customers, with our partners, and so love does far and away the 768 00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:30.230 most influential book in my career. But the second one is a book called 769 00:52:30.710 --> 00:52:37.030 the advantage by Patrick Lyncioni. Talks about organizational health and really gave us a 770 00:52:37.110 --> 00:52:40.030 framework for how to set our company values, how to think through kind of 771 00:52:40.150 --> 00:52:45.260 mission vision stuff, how to create a healthy organization. So the advantage by 772 00:52:45.340 --> 00:52:50.219 Patrick Lncioni and love does by Bob Gof wow, I did not know either 773 00:52:50.380 --> 00:52:54.460 one. Love does discovery, secretly incredible life in an ordinary world. Wow, 774 00:52:55.059 --> 00:53:00.289 very interesting. Thanks for mentioning those. Are there any reason or upcoming 775 00:53:00.329 --> 00:53:06.130 books that you recommend or looking forward to reading or seeing come out? I 776 00:53:06.489 --> 00:53:12.920 actually just read a new book by Disney CEO Bob Iger, and it's called 777 00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:15.599 the ride of a lifetime, I think. Yeah, I've heard about that. 778 00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:19.360 Yeah, it's I think it's Robert iiger is what it's listed at on 779 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:22.880 audible. I listen to all my books and so just searching right of a 780 00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:30.869 lifetime or Robert iiger. It's just a fascinating story of what's gone on at 781 00:53:30.989 --> 00:53:35.630 Disney and behind the scenes, of what it took for someone to become the 782 00:53:35.710 --> 00:53:39.630 CEO of, you know, a company as big as Disney and the different 783 00:53:40.110 --> 00:53:44.699 moves that had to be made to get to that point and then how he's 784 00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:47.900 navigated his tenure. Is CEEO. I think he's coming up on you know, 785 00:53:49.059 --> 00:53:52.340 I don't know if he's retiring or the end of his contract to CEO 786 00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:55.730 is coming up in the next year, and so whether he actually leaves or 787 00:53:55.769 --> 00:53:59.650 not, I have no clue. But the book was just fascinating to me. 788 00:53:59.690 --> 00:54:04.409 It's a little bit different read. It's not as it's not necessarily as 789 00:54:04.530 --> 00:54:07.210 actionable, or there's not, you know, it's not necessarily like a playbook, 790 00:54:07.210 --> 00:54:10.800 so to speak. Good books a good book. Yeah, good book 791 00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:14.440 is a good book, and so it broke the Molde a little bit of 792 00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:17.760 of what I tend to like. But you know, with me check, 793 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:22.679 you know, building a with our team, building a media company seeing how 794 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:29.989 Disney builds their media empire. So I had some kind of some actionable takeaways 795 00:54:30.030 --> 00:54:32.949 in terms of just seeing strategy they deployed and thinking how that could apply to 796 00:54:34.030 --> 00:54:37.070 us. But, but, man, just if you want to be fascinated 797 00:54:37.429 --> 00:54:40.139 by a story, I would say right of a lifetime by by Robert Eiger 798 00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:45.300 well and James and thought overlook the fact that one day sweet fish media will 799 00:54:45.300 --> 00:54:50.860 acquire disneys. Yes, just giving a little goal motivation there. Very it's 800 00:54:50.900 --> 00:54:53.610 called the right of a lifetime. Lessons learned from fifteen years as CEO of 801 00:54:53.730 --> 00:55:00.170 the Walt Disney company well, terrific. So at Marketing Book Podcastcom we're going 802 00:55:00.210 --> 00:55:04.570 to include links to your sights and your social media, including your linkedin profile, 803 00:55:04.610 --> 00:55:07.960 and I hope listeners will connect with you and thank you for joining us 804 00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:13.079 on the show and that they'll check out the B tob growth show and maybe 805 00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:15.519 even check out the monthly episode that James Muir and I do. And for 806 00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:19.360 you, dear listener, if you're listening on your smartphone, you subscribe to 807 00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:22.630 the marketing book podcast on your favorite podcast APP. All these links can be 808 00:55:22.670 --> 00:55:25.190 found right now by going to this episode and clicking on the show notes link. 809 00:55:25.670 --> 00:55:30.550 The name of the book is content based networking, how to instantly connect 810 00:55:30.550 --> 00:55:34.989 with anyone you want to know. The author is James Carberry. James, 811 00:55:35.230 --> 00:55:37.659 thank you very much for joining us on the marketing book podcast. Thank you 812 00:55:37.739 --> 00:55:39.260 so much, Douglas. Has Been a blast.