March 27, 2020

1235:The Sales Process Is Broken w/ Ryan Bonnici

The sales process is broken. Nobody actually enjoys buying anymore—especially not software. And when it comes to most sales processes, the human touch has just disappeared. , CMO at , recently talked with , CMO at , about his...

The sales process is broken. Nobody actually enjoys buying anymore—especially not software. And when it comes to most sales processes, the human touch has just disappeared.

Randy Frisch, CMO at Uberflip, recently talked with Ryan Bonnici, CMO at G2, about his approach to this problem.

They talk about:

  • How being a mini CMO prepared him to wear all the CMO hats
  • Ryan's take on how the sales process is broken (& how to streamline it)
  • Why marketers should think like consumers
  • Four weeks off a year is the bare minimum

Check out this and other episodes of The Marketer’s Journey on Apple PodcastsSpotifyStitcher, and Google Play!

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:08.750 Hey everyone, it is Kelsey corps with sweet fish media, and we are 2 00:00:08.869 --> 00:00:13.429 really excited to share with you an episode of the marketers journey from our friends 3 00:00:13.470 --> 00:00:18.469 over at UBERFLIP. The marketers journey is a podcast dedicated to learning from senior 4 00:00:18.589 --> 00:00:22.660 marketing executives. Each week, they speak to marketers and learn whether it was 5 00:00:22.780 --> 00:00:26.620 luck, hustle or a combination of the two which propelled them to their latest 6 00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:31.219 position. Then they explore how to engage their current and future customers on a 7 00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:37.009 path that is similarly planned yet adaptive. The marketers journey features amazing conversations with 8 00:00:37.210 --> 00:00:42.770 marketing leaders who share how to attract and convert with personalization from their entire buyer 9 00:00:42.850 --> 00:00:46.450 journey. If you think you'll find the show valuable after you listen to the 10 00:00:46.609 --> 00:00:51.240 episode, just search the marketers journey and apple podcasts or your favorite podcast player. 11 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:56.960 Okay, let's get into it. Hey, marketing leaders and business leaders, 12 00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:00.719 I am Randy Fish and thank you for tuning in to the marketers journey. 13 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.520 To give you a little bit of a sneak peek to this episode, 14 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:06.909 I have a guess who's been on my list since day one. I was 15 00:01:07.150 --> 00:01:11.790 very excited to have Ryan Benici who's the CMO at Gtwo on and we went 16 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:15.230 deep into his career. When I see deep, you know it's not that 17 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:18.579 long of a career, as he says. You know, in the last 18 00:01:18.579 --> 00:01:23.500 ten years. But in those ten years he's had long stags, roughly two 19 00:01:23.540 --> 00:01:27.739 years, three years at companies like exact target, sit hills force, hub 20 00:01:27.859 --> 00:01:33.450 spot, and now he is the CMO A G to, a company that's 21 00:01:33.530 --> 00:01:37.730 just killing it and helping a lot of us understand what software to buy as 22 00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:41.290 part of our text as. Now the cool part that you'll see that he 23 00:01:41.450 --> 00:01:46.329 unpacks is getting to a CMO for role for him from much more global growth 24 00:01:46.409 --> 00:01:52.439 company came through being able to own areas of a business in more regional areas. 25 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.719 Ryan is from Australia, is you're here with the accent. So he's 26 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:00.629 overseen some of these bigger companies with their regional marketing teams and a lot of 27 00:02:00.750 --> 00:02:05.629 benefit comes from that. I think it allows him to understand how to lead 28 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:10.789 a team without necessarily having been the CMO of sales force or CMO of hub 29 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:15.669 spot, but still running a region and having to think about all those different 30 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:19.460 aspects. I found that really interesting. There's a lot of other aspects that 31 00:02:19.539 --> 00:02:22.379 we start to dig in in the second half of the show, where we 32 00:02:22.580 --> 00:02:27.020 look at how Ryan thinks about the community aspect. Very tight to GTO, 33 00:02:27.139 --> 00:02:30.530 but very tight to all of our buyer journeys. are at a very natural, 34 00:02:30.650 --> 00:02:35.490 organic conversation. I'll let you tune in without further ado. Let's welcome 35 00:02:35.530 --> 00:02:40.090 Ryan Benechi. Hey Ryan, thank you so much for making time. Always 36 00:02:40.129 --> 00:02:44.439 busy as a CMO, but now we get to talk about how he became 37 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:46.639 that. So maybe for those who don't know you as well as I do, 38 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.879 tell them where you're a cmo today, what g two is all about 39 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:55.479 and how you got in there. Sure, thanks. It's nice to catch 40 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:59.830 up, Randy. So, yeah, my name's Ryan Ben HD. I'm 41 00:02:59.949 --> 00:03:05.030 the Chief Marketing Officer at GTO, formally known as g two crowd, being 42 00:03:05.069 --> 00:03:08.430 here for about two years now. Joined get from hub spot, where I 43 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:14.580 spent three of us so years. They're building their marketing and just that business 44 00:03:14.659 --> 00:03:16.500 in Asia Pacific, I guess. And then, yeah, prior to hub 45 00:03:16.539 --> 00:03:21.819 spot, was a sales force exact target Microsoft. Quite quite a few companies 46 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:24.819 that I feel really lucky looking back to have been at. So, yeah, 47 00:03:24.979 --> 00:03:30.009 be quite a journey. To get it to getting here and it's weird 48 00:03:30.090 --> 00:03:34.050 to think that it's, yeah, only been ten years or so. So, 49 00:03:34.889 --> 00:03:37.969 yeah, it's been that's been a fun ten years. Well, there's 50 00:03:37.969 --> 00:03:40.599 people who are going to tune into this podcast we're probably seeing there saying if 51 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.719 I could just get a job at one of those companies, let alone, 52 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:49.400 in your case, all of those companies, is really, really interesting and 53 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.199 and I need to guess just given you know, for those who aren't, 54 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.270 is familiar with Hob spot and sales force and exact target, all in the 55 00:03:57.349 --> 00:04:01.629 marketing technology space, all on the software space, which probably groomed you pretty 56 00:04:01.629 --> 00:04:08.349 well for a role in two, which is all about what software is the 57 00:04:08.469 --> 00:04:12.300 best software in the in the view of a community. Yeah, absolutely. 58 00:04:12.340 --> 00:04:15.300 I mean I think it grew me in a few different ways. I mean 59 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:18.699 I think this when I kind of look at my path and my career and 60 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:21.699 everything, I think the two things that have probably been the most beneficial to 61 00:04:21.819 --> 00:04:26.930 me. One is that I've yet always marketed to I've always been a marketer 62 00:04:27.089 --> 00:04:30.490 at a MARTEC company, which I think the benefit of that is that typically 63 00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:35.009 you will use your product better than any of your customers. Right. A 64 00:04:35.089 --> 00:04:39.720 sales force you know, we use our crm better than any of our customers 65 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:41.639 because, you know, we were building it, we were on the cutting 66 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.680 edge of it, so we were pushing it to new levels. Same as 67 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:48.040 hub spot, right. Hub spot uses house up better than everyone and it's 68 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.199 a hupstop marketing team a lot of the time. That's actually, you know, 69 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:57.550 putting in asks to product about like developing new features and new integrations and 70 00:04:57.670 --> 00:05:00.069 whatnot. And so I think like you know, Gosh, if I think, 71 00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:02.750 if I think back ten years ago, which was when I was at 72 00:05:02.829 --> 00:05:06.069 what it Microsoft and exact target, you know, Back Down, this is 73 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:10.980 when like email and digital and everything was really kind of ramping up and getting 74 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:14.860 a lot more advanced. And and it was interesting because I was really well 75 00:05:14.980 --> 00:05:19.300 positioned to be able to have these really senior conversations with CMOS at prospect companies, 76 00:05:19.339 --> 00:05:24.610 because they couldn't do this life cycle marketing, they couldn't do all these 77 00:05:24.689 --> 00:05:30.009 amazing customer journey, digital touch point focus marketing without us. And so, 78 00:05:30.170 --> 00:05:31.730 you know, being that platform, you know, a market I can have 79 00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:34.879 as many ideas as they want, but they ultimately need technology. Today it's 80 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:42.399 like it's almost impossible to execute on any marketing campaign now without tech, you 81 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.079 know, even if it's a billboard right, you still need like, you 82 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.720 know, creative tech and software to actually design your ads, the loan everything 83 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:51.629 else. So so that's set me up pretty well, I think, you 84 00:05:51.750 --> 00:05:55.750 know, just connecting me really closely to technology, which is what I love, 85 00:05:55.870 --> 00:05:59.910 and help me learn and put those companies forward. I'd say, like 86 00:05:59.990 --> 00:06:02.269 the other big thing for me was the being a regional marketer, is something 87 00:06:02.350 --> 00:06:06.860 that I, looking back now, and really fortunate for. And what I 88 00:06:06.939 --> 00:06:10.259 mean by a regional marketer was, you know, I was, you know, 89 00:06:10.300 --> 00:06:15.180 the first marketer bring exact target in age Pacific and then built, you 90 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:18.769 know, the marketing team's sales force and a hub spot in Sydney, in 91 00:06:18.889 --> 00:06:25.089 Japan and Singapore and India, in Asia. And so while I wasn't a 92 00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:28.290 Cmo, I think when I look back, I was. I was kind 93 00:06:28.329 --> 00:06:31.490 of like a mini CMO effectively right, like I was running everything from deman 94 00:06:31.529 --> 00:06:36.680 Jan to pr too, social to content to events. So I was kind 95 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:40.000 of like, I think what I didn't realize at the time, but it 96 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.800 kind of threw me into having to learn all of these different things. I 97 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.990 didn't have as much experience in which is what set me up quite nicely to 98 00:06:47.069 --> 00:06:51.430 then move into the CMO role when Jto came knocking. It's really interesting, 99 00:06:51.430 --> 00:06:55.949 I you know, when you describe it that way, it's essentially the general 100 00:06:55.990 --> 00:07:00.149 manager in a sense, for a business unit of the company and it's it's 101 00:07:00.189 --> 00:07:04.220 interesting when you look at some of these companies that you joined and you know, 102 00:07:04.300 --> 00:07:08.579 you look at exact target that was. Probably they were probably pretty big 103 00:07:08.660 --> 00:07:11.300 at the time you already joined them. Is that fair to say? Hmm? 104 00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:14.819 Yeah, yeah, it's he would have been around a thousand people maybe 105 00:07:14.860 --> 00:07:16.730 when I joined, right. And Yeah, so, considering I'll be some 106 00:07:16.850 --> 00:07:20.410 sales first, obviously would have been a giant already in two thousand and thirteen 107 00:07:20.610 --> 00:07:27.569 and and so on with hub spot, and I guess that joining a company 108 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:32.879 of that size and taking that regional opportunity, those those opportunities become available because 109 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:39.519 that company's ready to go to that next degree of scale. Yeah, absolutely, 110 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:42.680 and what's really nice there is that you then get the ability of like 111 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:46.149 functioning as a start up with in a bigger company, right, so you 112 00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:49.509 get all of the pros of being in a big company in terms of the 113 00:07:49.709 --> 00:07:53.670 brand, the process, you know, like the sales, ring, a 114 00:07:54.790 --> 00:07:59.220 revenue, you know, culture, identity, you have just all of these 115 00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:03.980 things. So it actually means that you, like the MVP and everything on 116 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:07.019 top of that is already like very well established. So you can then actually 117 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:11.699 play around a lot more in terms of the marketing leavers to best pull to 118 00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:16.449 help, you know, you grow in that regional segment because you're not needing 119 00:08:16.449 --> 00:08:20.850 to worry about, you know, finding MVP at at the most basic level. 120 00:08:20.970 --> 00:08:24.569 And so I think that was that also allowed me to really focus more 121 00:08:24.649 --> 00:08:28.959 in on kind of like marketing and being creative and looking at what was happening 122 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.159 out there in the world and what I could steal from others and their ideas 123 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.440 and build into my own. So, yeah, I was interesting and, 124 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.519 you know, being not g tow where when I joined, I think we're 125 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.190 around two hundred people. Yes, right, about four hundred people. So 126 00:08:43.350 --> 00:08:46.750 that's been that was also like a very different experience and I hadn't been an 127 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.470 accompany this size for a really long time. So again kind of had to 128 00:08:50.509 --> 00:08:56.379 kind of like re reset some of like my I kind of understandings of how 129 00:08:56.419 --> 00:08:58.700 things get done. So let's let's dig a little bit more on that for 130 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:05.179 a minute here, because I'm curious both in terms of your willingness to take 131 00:09:05.299 --> 00:09:09.220 that that leap to a company whereas you said, it was two hundred people, 132 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:13.330 and as well, the same time, for the leadership group at Gtwo 133 00:09:13.610 --> 00:09:18.090 to say, okay, we're ready to go and bring on a CMO who, 134 00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:24.009 as previously rend these regions but is now going to run a global initiative 135 00:09:24.049 --> 00:09:28.159 at a much smaller scale. How do you think each side had a had 136 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:33.679 a struggle with that dilemma. Yeah, good question. I mean, I 137 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.440 think for me what I loved about the opportunity with G two was that, 138 00:09:39.029 --> 00:09:41.870 you know, I for what the last decade at always been a market for 139 00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:46.750 individual companies of individual products, and you know every product has its pro and 140 00:09:46.830 --> 00:09:50.549 con and no product is right for every customer. But at the end of 141 00:09:50.549 --> 00:09:54.820 the day, when you're marketing software at a company, you know you're wanting 142 00:09:54.860 --> 00:09:58.220 to market it to as many people as possible, right, and to drive 143 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:01.860 as much sales as possible. And so I think what I really loved about 144 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:05.460 joining g too is we don't represent any one software platform, right. You 145 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:09.210 know, all of them, tens of thousands of them, are all on 146 00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:13.049 our platform and it's their customers that actually decide, you know, how good 147 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:16.850 they fair on our side, not us, and so I really liked the 148 00:10:18.009 --> 00:10:22.559 idea of being able to I actually not represent an individual software platform but actually 149 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:28.879 represent a marketplace where, you know, v Software Platforms for you as a 150 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.919 buyer would rise to the top. So that was a, I think, 151 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:33.679 a big fun thing for me and the other component was, you know, 152 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:39.549 it was our situation is so much more complex than any software company I ever 153 00:10:39.669 --> 00:10:43.750 work for because we are a marketplace and you know, just like Uber and 154 00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:46.509 Air B andb have buyers and sellers onto both sides. So do we write. 155 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:50.620 So we have millions of buyers coming to our website every week looking for 156 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.179 the best software for their businesses and then on the flip side we have I 157 00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:58.139 don't know, tens of thousands of software companies that are trying to best connect 158 00:10:58.179 --> 00:11:03.700 with those buyers. So the dynamic of just that marketplace and like, how 159 00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:07.570 do you balance growth between both sides? How do you optimize spend? A 160 00:11:07.690 --> 00:11:11.730 lot of that has been new learning for me and I think you know, 161 00:11:11.769 --> 00:11:15.409 if you look at my career, while all of those companies that I've worked 162 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:18.639 at seem quite similar, they've all been really, really different in terms of 163 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.399 what I've needed to do. So at Microsoft I was much more focused on 164 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:28.240 consumer Mon marketing at exact target. I was much more focused on enterprise be 165 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.600 to be marketing, so selling to really big accounts. At sales force it 166 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.070 was a bit of a mixed mixture of everything. Really pubs, well, 167 00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:39.870 the complete opposite. Rights all about scaling, you know, to as these 168 00:11:39.909 --> 00:11:43.429 small medium businesses as possible. So I've kind of like always jumped into a 169 00:11:43.470 --> 00:11:46.269 field who I don't know as much and I take, you know, a 170 00:11:46.350 --> 00:11:48.860 good six months in the new role to kind of get up and up and 171 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:52.700 running, and it's typically it's not until like twelve months and when I feel 172 00:11:52.700 --> 00:11:56.179 like in a new company in a new space, like I know as much 173 00:11:56.179 --> 00:12:00.340 as everyone else, and from the twelve month on woods point, that's typically 174 00:12:00.419 --> 00:12:05.769 when I find I can start to pull on my experiences from other industries and 175 00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:09.370 other companies and other roles to them kind of do a better job than other 176 00:12:09.409 --> 00:12:13.929 people in my space now that I've liked learned what they already know. Absolutely. 177 00:12:15.490 --> 00:12:18.600 So I'm curious because is you kind of walk through that that aspect of 178 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:24.039 the unknown and jumping into the unknown is as much as they were different buyer 179 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:28.519 groups or fire personas, if you will, at sales force versus hops up 180 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.789 the less similarity that you could extract late your knowledge from. What have you 181 00:12:31.909 --> 00:12:39.029 done to research and meet people who can help you understand how to run these 182 00:12:39.110 --> 00:12:43.990 double sided market places? Because, being the CMO, I'm sure your team 183 00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:48.820 expects you to have that plan, know some of the things that are going 184 00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:52.700 to help you succeed, like have you manage to connect with people from the 185 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:56.419 air PNB's, the UBERS, maybe a glass door? Love them or hate 186 00:12:56.460 --> 00:13:01.129 them? Yeah, yeah, no, I have absolutely. I mean, 187 00:13:01.169 --> 00:13:05.250 I think unfortunate in that, like the in terms of one side of the 188 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:09.250 double sided market place being a side that I know very intimately well. Right. 189 00:13:09.570 --> 00:13:13.000 So, you know, I'm very familiar with like how to sell to 190 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:18.080 Sass marketers and too, SASS businesses, and that's where we make our money, 191 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.559 right through SAS companies buying subscriptions the DTO because they want to better control 192 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:26.120 their brand and GTWO, they want to, you know, do review automation, 193 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.070 review generation and they want to connect you to up to their crm to 194 00:13:30.230 --> 00:13:35.509 better create buyer intent signals for their sales teams. To know who to proactively 195 00:13:35.590 --> 00:13:39.070 prospect to. Some I felt really good on that front. So, yeah, 196 00:13:39.110 --> 00:13:43.740 it was come. It has been companies like like facebook, like Uba, 197 00:13:43.059 --> 00:13:48.139 like Yelp, glass or comparably, of spoken to like folks on the 198 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:52.500 growth teams and growth leaders at all of those companies to learn from them. 199 00:13:52.779 --> 00:13:56.610 We also have like another component which makes it tough for us, which is 200 00:13:56.690 --> 00:14:01.090 really around kind of most of those companies that I just mentioned there typically for 201 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:05.610 really quick purchases. Even Amazon is predominantly quick purchase, whereas when you're buying 202 00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:11.759 software and your reviewing software, it's typically a much more life cycle focus kind 203 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:18.120 of like process and you're not just looking for a star rating that you're actually 204 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.360 wanting to know like if the product integrates other systems that you use. It's 205 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.269 just a it's a little bit different, and so I would say that, 206 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:26.990 you know, I was able to learn a lot from those companies in terms 207 00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.750 of like how they think about growth experiments and how they balance different sides and 208 00:14:31.830 --> 00:14:35.789 different needs of market places. I don't know if, like, I don't 209 00:14:35.789 --> 00:14:39.980 know if I've totally like unlocked the paradigm yet, just for myself, around 210 00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:45.580 kind of how best to optimize this software marketplace in our space, just because, 211 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:50.059 you know, a review takes five minutes. Right. People don't buy 212 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:54.690 software daily, right, they buy annually. It's not, you know, 213 00:14:54.769 --> 00:14:58.049 multi year and the way people buy as kind of different. So so yeah, 214 00:14:58.049 --> 00:15:01.769 there's been a little lessons from those companies, but but I think a 215 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:03.929 lot of them I'm also just having to kind of learn by silent on the 216 00:15:03.970 --> 00:15:07.919 job too. That's great. Well, maybe will unpack a little bit more 217 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.039 of that Ryan in the second half here. What we're going to do right 218 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:16.240 now is take a little break here from some software sponsors here who are probably 219 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.960 on g two as well, and then we'll be right back with Brian Banucci 220 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:26.789 learning about his buyers. Tree. Want to create high converting experiences for your 221 00:15:26.870 --> 00:15:31.669 demand strategies that accelerate pipeline and drive revenue. Look no further than our presenting 222 00:15:31.710 --> 00:15:37.940 sponsor, Uberflip, named a leader in content experience by GTWO and a leader 223 00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:43.620 in content activation by forester. UBERFLIP will help you accelerate every buyer journey by 224 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:50.210 creating bingeable experiences that will allow your prospects to consume more content faster. Companies 225 00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:54.850 like Trimble, Wiley and stand tech are using UBERFLIP to power their go to 226 00:15:54.929 --> 00:16:00.809 market strategies, and we created one just for you. Head to uberflipcom journey 227 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:06.399 to see how UBERFLIP can help you leverage the power of per senalize content experiences 228 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:11.960 to drive demand our Ryan. So we unpact your career journey and, as 229 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.559 we know today, you were the Cmo of g two or, as I 230 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.230 like to say, the artist formerly known as g two crowd. And you 231 00:16:19.350 --> 00:16:23.590 know, I think what gt does, as we talk about the buyer journey, 232 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:29.710 is very interesting because I think a lot of us think of software purchases 233 00:16:29.750 --> 00:16:33.179 as the goal is to get the buyer to spend time with our sales team, 234 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:37.340 and that's everything that marketings trying to do is drive you to our sales 235 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:40.940 team and then the sales team is going to do a great job at closing 236 00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:44.539 business. The other cool way that a lot of us hope for is word 237 00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:48.169 of mouth. And is it fair to say that that the future is to 238 00:16:48.649 --> 00:16:52.889 make word of mouth easier? Yeah, I think so. I mean I 239 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:56.409 don't think that we should necessarily, as market to stop trying to focus on, 240 00:16:56.570 --> 00:17:00.129 you know, how do we best connect our sales teams or out consulting 241 00:17:00.169 --> 00:17:04.160 teams with with bias. I think the reality, though, is that, 242 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.759 like whether we lack it or all, those buyers are so much more informed 243 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:12.799 now than they ever were before and they don't need necessarily to speak to yourselves 244 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.789 team. So, and what I mean by that is that there's so many 245 00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:19.990 providers today now that are just allowing people to buy stole try like, you 246 00:17:21.069 --> 00:17:23.710 know, thirty day trials, for example, freemium packages or just buying with 247 00:17:23.829 --> 00:17:27.430 credit cond so I think, you know, what we're seeing is it's all 248 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:33.539 about ultimately reducing friction to sale. And so if buyer can learn a lot 249 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:37.779 about your product and service from your customers online by coming to GTCOM, like 250 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:42.420 they much prefer to do that. Then you know, if they have questions 251 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:47.130 and they need technical details answered or they want to better understand how to integrate 252 00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:51.049 something, no doubt like speaking to, you know, a solutions engineer at 253 00:17:51.049 --> 00:17:55.130 your company or you know, an experienced sales consultant will help them. But 254 00:17:55.210 --> 00:18:00.599 I think the sales process is really broken in the world right and the idea 255 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.119 of, like you know, the first call is like we ask questions of 256 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.240 the prospect to better understand who they are. We don't show them products in 257 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.240 you know, maybe in call number two we met show them some screenshots of 258 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.670 the products. In call number three, maybe we show them at demo because, 259 00:18:14.789 --> 00:18:17.390 like now, we've been able to craft the demo and off based on 260 00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:19.349 what we hear from them, like we just I think, as business as 261 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:23.190 we've created all of these steps to make sales teams be more efficient and in 262 00:18:23.309 --> 00:18:26.940 doing so, in some ways we've kind of like lost a lot of the 263 00:18:27.019 --> 00:18:32.819 humanity of buying and I think the reality is no one enjoys buying. I 264 00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:37.859 mean I should kind of preface that by saying I because I love buying clothes, 265 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:41.609 I love buying gadgets, but I like being in control of the buying 266 00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:45.250 process right like when I'm buying electronics, I go on Amazon, I find 267 00:18:45.289 --> 00:18:48.009 out what I want and I buy and it's there, you know, late, 268 00:18:48.089 --> 00:18:51.569 maybe later that day or the next day. I don't actually enjoy speaking 269 00:18:51.609 --> 00:18:55.799 to sales consultants. I want to be able to learn everything objectively online now, 270 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.000 watch youtube videos and then I want to be empowered to get what I 271 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.000 want, but I don't wanted to be a barrier that. So I think 272 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.720 we've kind of I don't know, I'm curious like. Do you enjoy speaking 273 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:07.759 to sales, or so you you, like me, seen your Marketa you 274 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:11.349 must get to funny, look, it's fair. I mean it depends on 275 00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:15.670 I guess what I'm buying and what experience I want. I'll give you a 276 00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:19.990 great experience, a great example of a bad experience that's not in our space 277 00:19:21.069 --> 00:19:23.029 of software, which is buying a car. I mean, yeah, every 278 00:19:23.109 --> 00:19:26.819 time I have to buy a car, it's just painful. You go in 279 00:19:26.980 --> 00:19:30.700 there, you know what you want, you know you're going to have to 280 00:19:30.859 --> 00:19:33.500 haggle a bit, but then the process where they got to go in the 281 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:36.779 other room and leave you for twenty minutes so that they pretend that they're doing 282 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:41.329 whatever they're doing or actually doing something. That inefficient. Be Guys were nuts 283 00:19:41.289 --> 00:19:47.289 and and it's it's interesting. I mean pulling it more into the software space. 284 00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:51.450 It was very interesting. This just happening. I can't say the vendors 285 00:19:51.490 --> 00:19:55.559 or the solution, but we were evaluating an Uber Foot, buying a solution 286 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.920 and given that we we know a lot of the MARTECH players well, we 287 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.039 partner with a lot of them, it's hard to pick one, because it's 288 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.109 like choosing your children. Which one of them do you love more? And 289 00:20:07.789 --> 00:20:11.990 one of the one of the people have a relationship at one of the vendors 290 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:15.390 said, well, I don't feel like you spent enough time evaluating us. 291 00:20:15.750 --> 00:20:19.509 Now. We only got this much time with you and you chose someone else. 292 00:20:19.549 --> 00:20:22.099 And and my answer to them was, we don't need a lot of 293 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:26.819 time. You know, to your point, Ryan, we you know, 294 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.940 we may being reviews on g two, we may be talking to other companies 295 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:36.009 that we know that use different solutions. We may have people on our team 296 00:20:36.490 --> 00:20:40.410 who have used different solutions at different companies and stops from the way. So 297 00:20:40.450 --> 00:20:45.890 a lot of our opinions are formed. It's really specific details that in some 298 00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:49.039 cases we can we can knock off in a one hour call. Totally, 299 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.319 totally and I think to your car point right, I'm just I love I 300 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.079 think one of the things that's made me a really good marketer is that I'm 301 00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.920 just very much like a consumer and I'm always consuming marketing messages and learning from 302 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:06.789 them, and I think that Cavana have done just such a great job lately 303 00:21:06.950 --> 00:21:11.670 and marketing the value of their platform in terms of like using an APP, 304 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:17.109 like listing your car, selling your car, just basically removing every single pain 305 00:21:17.269 --> 00:21:19.859 point out of buying and selling cause and like, let's be real, like 306 00:21:21.019 --> 00:21:25.140 have you seen their ads with their like their car vending machine? Like I 307 00:21:25.220 --> 00:21:27.740 didn't even know if that even really exists or not, but it's a really 308 00:21:27.859 --> 00:21:32.259 buzzy thing that gets lots of people talking about it. So they've done a 309 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:33.690 great job at that. I added to your point. I'm with you. 310 00:21:33.849 --> 00:21:37.130 I've just recently bought a car and I didn't I just went on Mine, 311 00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:40.970 put my credit card in and I got to live it a week later and 312 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:45.569 it was heavenly, like truly the most heavenly experience ever. And so yeah, 313 00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:48.839 I think, like I think, as markets in this like leaders in 314 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:51.960 business, we need to try and work at how do we how do we, 315 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.279 like, let really great products shine through and how do we kind of 316 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.119 reduce friction so that buyers can learn as much as I need to income buy 317 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.549 as quickly as possibly? It's very interesting as you as you say that, 318 00:22:02.630 --> 00:22:06.589 I think to myself a lot of this software that we're buying, a lot 319 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:10.509 of the solutions that we're buying out in the market, they're designed to streamline 320 00:22:10.630 --> 00:22:15.470 the way we do business. So take something as simple as e signature a 321 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:19.500 solution like Docu sign or hello sign other tools like that. They're really taking 322 00:22:19.579 --> 00:22:25.980 this arcade way of getting multiple parties to sign a document where they have to 323 00:22:26.059 --> 00:22:29.980 sign, print, scan, email. I mean I'm not talking facts days, 324 00:22:30.009 --> 00:22:33.490 I'm just talking modern day and they make it so simple. Yet, 325 00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:37.890 as you pointed out, when it comes to the sales process on those same 326 00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:42.769 solutions, we drag people through these elongated processes that maybe don't have to be. 327 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.160 Yeah, I think so, and I think that comes down to oftentimes 328 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.240 market is not doing a great job, and in kind of qualification, at 329 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.480 asking people like where they are at in the buying process. You know, 330 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.430 because if I think of myself right like we when I joined g two, 331 00:23:00.670 --> 00:23:03.670 I did a bit of a did a massive out a whole of them about 332 00:23:03.750 --> 00:23:07.710 my tech and all the technology where we're using, and I remember very vividly 333 00:23:07.829 --> 00:23:12.299 like filling out some demo forms of these platforms that I wanted to buy and 334 00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:17.099 then having to go through like these sales calls, and I remember just vividly 335 00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:18.819 being like Hey, I don't think you understand, like I'm ready to buy, 336 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:22.059 like let's start talking price, like I don't want to know. I 337 00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:25.660 and and they almost feel like, well know, I actually want to like 338 00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:26.849 run you through these things. I was like no, no, you don't 339 00:23:26.849 --> 00:23:30.809 get it, like views are platforms. Many times, like I just want 340 00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:33.690 to buy. I like, let's talk about pricing, and it was like 341 00:23:33.849 --> 00:23:36.809 a lot of pushback and I think I had to like escalate it to like 342 00:23:37.049 --> 00:23:38.849 a more senior person company that I knew to Bekay, I don't know what 343 00:23:40.009 --> 00:23:42.039 the deal is here, like I just want, like I'm trying to buy. 344 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:45.119 They let me give you my money, please. Okay, you don't 345 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.720 want to waste time talking to sales reps? No, just credit to sell. 346 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.759 There's which just like I'm a marketer. I wanted marketing and I know 347 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.069 what I need to do marketing. I don't write talk to someone. So 348 00:23:56.190 --> 00:24:00.309 yeah, I think. I mean we're definitely hearing really good feedback from, 349 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:03.349 you know, the millions of buyers that come to our site every week around 350 00:24:03.430 --> 00:24:07.069 how like we're helping them fire that better technology and we find that, like 351 00:24:07.390 --> 00:24:11.980 you know, some of our competitors that have similar looking sides put that are 352 00:24:11.019 --> 00:24:15.180 paid play, like cap terror as an example. We have a lot of 353 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:18.500 companies that or buyers. It will come to us after they are bought technology 354 00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:22.019 off of Cap Terra and then they'll say, hey, we never even realize, 355 00:24:22.220 --> 00:24:26.009 like when we were on cap terra, the list was ordered by who 356 00:24:26.130 --> 00:24:29.650 was paying the most to be there. So they import software that they were 357 00:24:29.769 --> 00:24:33.170 thinking was going to be good for them turned out to be horrible for them 358 00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:37.289 and then they realize, like after only going through that horrible experience and it 359 00:24:37.369 --> 00:24:40.839 was paid to play. And so I think by a focusing on just like 360 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.000 quality and, you know, being really authentic and having trusted reviews like is 361 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.680 going to see us win and the long term and our traffics growing fast than 362 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.160 all of our competitors. So that's nice to well, maybe one of the 363 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.150 things that we uncovered that's maybe the separate bullet is, is if you started 364 00:24:56.230 --> 00:25:00.990 valuating software on who has the best buying experience, the best, yeah, 365 00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:04.950 process in buying that technology, maybe that's an extra column that we need on 366 00:25:06.069 --> 00:25:08.500 that list, not just how well the technical works, but but what was 367 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:14.700 it like actually going through the selling process? Is it efficient? Was it? 368 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:18.460 Yeah, honest, totally, and that's something that we've actually been toying 369 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:22.049 with the idea of, like do we you know, because right now most 370 00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:25.690 of the questions that we ask for when people are leaving reviews is much more 371 00:25:25.730 --> 00:25:30.210 focused on the software the implementation. We don't focus a whole a lot of 372 00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.930 questions on the buying process. And you know, how authentic was your sales 373 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:37.960 rapp and like how would you rate your sales wrap or your consultant? I 374 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.240 thought about that. Is Like an interesting area for us to go down potentially, 375 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.240 just to give more information back to these software companies around how they could 376 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.359 do a better job, because I'm sure you know there's companies out of that 377 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.390 are great products but maybe sales teams that don't do a great job of selling 378 00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:56.670 those products in a great way. And so, like, if I was 379 00:25:56.710 --> 00:26:00.470 a gem of that company, I would want to, you know, change 380 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.269 things up a little bit potentially. Absolutely absolute. Yeah, it's a fun 381 00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:07.220 space. I mean in technology is like everywhere. I, like you and 382 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:11.299 I right now talking on zoom. I've got Google Docs open in the background, 383 00:26:11.380 --> 00:26:15.500 Evan Open in the background, like Google Calendar Open. Like I think 384 00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.890 without realizing every day I'm probably using two does and different pieces of software at 385 00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:23.289 a minimum. Right maybe you using even more than that. You know, 386 00:26:23.609 --> 00:26:29.490 there's no way of getting around it. But yeah, that's definitely an important 387 00:26:29.809 --> 00:26:34.559 definitely expect exciting space you've landed in and really interesting how it actually ties back 388 00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:38.160 and an area that you're so passionate about, which is mapping better buy your 389 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:44.200 journeys through sales, forest up spot exact target, all coming into full cycle 390 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.789 heregy to Ryan, we're going to keep you around after a short break here. 391 00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:49.829 Will take a quick pause and then we're going to hear how you take 392 00:26:49.910 --> 00:26:59.190 breaks as part of your journey. Hey, Ryan, so we've learned about 393 00:26:59.309 --> 00:27:03.619 your career journey, which is fascinating, the buyer journey that you you're creating 394 00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:07.980 over a GTUBE. But what about taking time for yourself, for your family? 395 00:27:07.180 --> 00:27:10.980 I know you got some dogs. How do you make time for all 396 00:27:11.059 --> 00:27:15.690 that being this tmo of a company that's growing at a crazy rate? Yeah, 397 00:27:15.730 --> 00:27:19.130 you know, I've always this isn't ever been something that's been a massive 398 00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:22.890 struggle for me, and I think I'm lucky in that I'm Australian and I 399 00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:26.490 grew up outside of the US, to be honest. So in Australia, 400 00:27:26.930 --> 00:27:29.769 you know, like I guess a lot of parts of the world now, 401 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.319 and you will leave, is something that's kind of part of the the government 402 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.359 said so in Australia, right. You know, it's like my it's like 403 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.279 my privilege to get for so I privilyse is the way to putting it. 404 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.390 It's like my like like legal right that I should get four weeks off the 405 00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:47.869 year. So I don't know, I grew up in that kind of a 406 00:27:47.950 --> 00:27:51.470 system where, but I don't feel grateful for that. Like that's just like 407 00:27:51.829 --> 00:27:56.630 the bare minimum. I I like have something brushing your teeth, so press 408 00:27:56.670 --> 00:27:57.940 yeah, it's kind of just it's really like rushing to do. It's just 409 00:27:57.980 --> 00:28:02.700 something that you don't think about. And so I've always been really, really 410 00:28:02.740 --> 00:28:04.619 a big believer in that. Like in Australia we took a lot about our 411 00:28:04.619 --> 00:28:07.339 culture. It's like work hard, play hard, and I don't think like 412 00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:10.700 I can work as hard as I do if I don't, you know, 413 00:28:10.859 --> 00:28:14.250 to have to have time off. And so I've always been really direct with 414 00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:17.569 my boss has and that, you know, I like to take three to 415 00:28:17.730 --> 00:28:22.089 four weeks off every year around, you know, the holidays. So you 416 00:28:22.170 --> 00:28:26.089 know, like in in a few weeks after kickoff, for around New Year, 417 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:30.680 I'm going to barley for three weeks just to like sweetly shut out from 418 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:36.279 work. Lived in the rainforest. Dude, looks of Yoga. So yeah, 419 00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:37.880 I'm just a really big believer and you need to like switch off from 420 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.950 work and and I have pretty like good boundaries around. I try not to 421 00:28:42.109 --> 00:28:47.869 text colleagues after hours or slack them after hours. If my boss takes me 422 00:28:47.990 --> 00:28:51.269 after hours, I went reply to him until the morning. I just like 423 00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:53.150 to train people that it can be aud to. I mean to get me 424 00:28:53.190 --> 00:28:56.059 wrong, if he's if he's texting me and he's like the world is burning 425 00:28:56.099 --> 00:29:00.660 down right now, we need help, like obviously different story, but the 426 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:06.299 reality is like ninety nine percent of the texts and more just like idears and 427 00:29:06.380 --> 00:29:08.740 things like that. And it can be easy. You can if you like 428 00:29:08.900 --> 00:29:11.809 what you do, which I do, it's easy to then get seduced and 429 00:29:11.849 --> 00:29:15.769 then respond in the moment. But I I like have, I think, 430 00:29:15.890 --> 00:29:21.170 over the years, learned to actually not do that and to not just like 431 00:29:21.369 --> 00:29:25.319 slack my team whenever random idea and instead maybe add it to their a sauna 432 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:29.160 project for our oneonone so that I'll speak to them in a few days when 433 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:30.160 we actually catch up. On that way, I'm not like, you know, 434 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.279 missing and messing up in their flow and I think by doing that my 435 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:37.039 team is a learned that and they do the same things. And so, 436 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.269 yeah, when I go on vacation for those three weeks in Bali like I 437 00:29:40.349 --> 00:29:44.190 will delete every workout from my phone. I won't checking now. I like 438 00:29:44.349 --> 00:29:48.190 I truly won't, and my team knows, like my VP's know, if 439 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:49.269 they need me, they can call me. But I mean, we're not 440 00:29:49.430 --> 00:29:52.980 solving cancer here at jet. As much as I love what I do, 441 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:56.900 like, no one's going to die. And so yeah, I think, 442 00:29:56.900 --> 00:29:59.819 I think if you're a leader that can't take hold days and you need to 443 00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:03.059 be on that is a big fat sign that you are a failure as a 444 00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:07.529 lead up because you haven't built a team that can leave without you. And 445 00:30:07.130 --> 00:30:11.849 that's like my biggest job in my mind, is like to build teams that 446 00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:15.970 can function without me and don't need my help to make decisions. And you 447 00:30:15.009 --> 00:30:18.369 know, if they want my input and I can be additive, great, 448 00:30:18.450 --> 00:30:22.599 but but yeah, I'd feel like I was a complete failure if they needed 449 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.279 me for everything. That's, I think, a great philosophy when it's definitely 450 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.759 hard to live by. But I'm sure you've got a better balance just by 451 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.759 making it such a focus. So thanks a lot for sharing that, right, 452 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.470 thanks for sharing everything that you've brought to the marketers yaree today. That 453 00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:41.950 Randy. Yeah, this was great. Yeah, we really got a great 454 00:30:41.950 --> 00:30:45.710 idea of your entire career, how you think about the buyer and how you 455 00:30:47.589 --> 00:30:51.420 make a focus for your own personal life within that, all within about thirty 456 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:55.460 minute. So I hope everyone who is tuned in is enjoyed this. Every 457 00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:59.940 week I'm getting to chat with amazing executives have different ways that they've scaled to 458 00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:04.009 leadership roles that they're in. Ryan story is truly unique and I hope you'll 459 00:31:04.170 --> 00:31:07.890 listen in to some other unique ones that we've got until next time. This 460 00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:11.609 has been the marketers journey. I'm ready, fresh from UPER flip. Thank 461 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:15.970 you so much to Ryan Bunchi from GTUB. Thanks for ready see. Yeah, 462 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:22.279 all right, everybody. We really hope you enjoyed the marketers journey. 463 00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.720 Again, just there's the marketers journey and apple podcasts or wherever you do. 464 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.680 You're listening, subscribe, leavor review if you like it and tell a friend 465 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:37.150 if you think they'd enjoy it. Okay, until next time. I hate 466 00:31:37.190 --> 00:31:41.430 it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they 467 00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:45.309 do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast 468 00:31:45.349 --> 00:31:48.700 audience. So here's what we decided to do. If you leave a review 469 00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:52.380 for me to be growth in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the 470 00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:56.819 review to James At sweetfish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my 471 00:31:56.900 --> 00:32:00.819 new book, content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want 472 00:32:00.819 --> 00:32:02.769 to know. We get a review, you get a free book. We 473 00:32:02.930 --> 00:32:04.369 both win.