Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.910 WE WELCOME BACK TO BE TOB growth. I'm Logan Lyles with street fish media. 2 00:00:09.029 --> 00:00:12.990 Today I'm joined by James Lawrence. He's the cool founder at rocket agency. 3 00:00:13.029 --> 00:00:18.350 He's also the author of Smarter Marketer, Eleven Golden Rules to help inhouse 4 00:00:18.390 --> 00:00:22.660 marketers thrive in an ever changing digital world. James, welcome to the show 5 00:00:22.739 --> 00:00:26.059 man. How's it going today? Hey, Loogan, enough love posome to 6 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:29.739 be on the show. It's it's nice and early here in Sydney, Australia, 7 00:00:29.859 --> 00:00:33.219 so just had my coffee and yeah, ready to go. Awesome, 8 00:00:33.259 --> 00:00:36.130 man, it's afternoon out here, mountain time in the states. I love 9 00:00:36.250 --> 00:00:39.969 connecting with guests across so many time zones. It allows me to speak with 10 00:00:40.009 --> 00:00:43.689 so many smart marketers like yourself. Didn't even mean to, you know, 11 00:00:43.810 --> 00:00:46.369 give this light not there to your book. We are going to be talking 12 00:00:46.409 --> 00:00:49.850 about your book, Smarter Marketer. As we mentioned in the subtitle. You 13 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:54.079 break down eleven golden rules for inhouse marketers. We're going to be talking about 14 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:58.240 four of those specifically and breaking them down a little bit for listeners today. 15 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:00.600 Before we do that, James, I would love for you to give us 16 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:03.880 a little bit of context, tell us a little bit about yourself and for 17 00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:07.310 context for listeners as well, what you in the rocket agency team or up 18 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:10.670 to these days? Yeah, awesome. So Um. Yes, we're digital 19 00:01:10.709 --> 00:01:14.670 marketing agency out of Sydney, Australia, founded in two thousand and six. 20 00:01:15.390 --> 00:01:19.340 Most of our work, he's in late generation and brand development. So don't 21 00:01:19.379 --> 00:01:22.579 do any ECOM work for us. We do a lot of complex be to 22 00:01:22.659 --> 00:01:29.500 be Lee generation work, mostly in Seo sem, increasingly in social, Linkedin 23 00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:33.849 and obviously marketing, automation and content. Awesome. I Love Them. And 24 00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:36.810 so let's dive into the book. We're going to be talking about four of 25 00:01:36.890 --> 00:01:41.010 these golden rules. What were some of the main things that you were setting 26 00:01:41.010 --> 00:01:44.569 out to solve for before we get into the specific rules that you want to 27 00:01:44.609 --> 00:01:48.640 break down, James, where where you saw a need for this book and 28 00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.200 kind of what prompted you to write it? Yeah, good question, Logan. 29 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.280 I guess we've been doing our things for, you know, ten, 30 00:01:55.439 --> 00:02:00.040 ten, twelve years. Get a lot of questions from clients, typically being 31 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:07.510 in house marketers and some some business owners, basically always around the speed of 32 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:10.469 change in digital marketing, where things do move so quickly. But how do 33 00:02:10.509 --> 00:02:16.659 you put structure and bring more structure and planning and strategy to digital marketing campaigns 34 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:22.259 and just voted important to put down all of our learnings from rover ten years 35 00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:25.460 and put them together into a process which we felt that would be, you 36 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:29.939 know, as applicable today is hopefully in five years, ten years time. 37 00:02:29.939 --> 00:02:32.169 I love it, man. I mean talk about the rate of change with 38 00:02:32.289 --> 00:02:36.729 everything going out there, with, you know, travel bands and people changing, 39 00:02:37.169 --> 00:02:39.889 you know, their event strategy. Even from the time that we record 40 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:43.729 this today, on a Tuesday's when it goes live two weeks from now, 41 00:02:43.770 --> 00:02:47.400 there could be a lot that's changed in everybody's marketing plans. So we're not 42 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:52.159 only dealing with, you know, the rate of change in in just marketing, 43 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:54.520 in the text AC and the tools and the way that pier behavior of 44 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:58.909 change, but there's so many things going on around us, from the political 45 00:02:58.990 --> 00:03:01.550 landscapes and now the health landscape. So I think anything that we can do 46 00:03:01.870 --> 00:03:07.349 to to make keeping up with that rate of change easier for folks is something 47 00:03:07.389 --> 00:03:09.389 that's going to be useful. So I'm excited to break down these. So 48 00:03:09.430 --> 00:03:13.979 let's jump into number one. Chapter one in your book is centered around this 49 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:19.020 golden rule that you sum up as digital marketing is just marketing. UNPACK that 50 00:03:19.060 --> 00:03:21.259 a little bit for us and then tell us, you know, what are 51 00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:23.460 the things that marketers need to do in light of this truth? Yeah, 52 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:28.210 yeah, nice one. Yeah, I guess when we started the agency back 53 00:03:28.210 --> 00:03:31.449 in two thousand and six digital marketing was was very much a technical purshoot, 54 00:03:31.530 --> 00:03:38.849 where Seo was all about linked building and technical very much a technical outlook on 55 00:03:38.969 --> 00:03:44.759 on site. PPC was very much what technical as well and technical optimizations and 56 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.599 the penny drop. For us it was post three or four years back when 57 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:53.159 one of our young account managers walked across the room and held up this book 58 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:57.789 called Scientific Advertising and started reading from it and started talking about the Split Tep, 59 00:03:57.949 --> 00:04:02.590 the importance of split testing ad copy to reduce the cost of CPA in 60 00:04:02.909 --> 00:04:08.430 ads. was talking about the importance of headlines. was talking about the importance 61 00:04:08.509 --> 00:04:13.379 of taking people's time and people wing time for into account when putting adds together. 62 00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:17.939 was talking about basically using psychology principles in advertising, and these are all 63 00:04:18.019 --> 00:04:21.699 things which is digital markets, you know, in two thousand and fifteen. 64 00:04:21.740 --> 00:04:26.649 Two Thousand and sixteen were very much native to us and the really interesting thing 65 00:04:26.689 --> 00:04:28.889 about the book is that it was a book that was published in One thousand 66 00:04:28.889 --> 00:04:32.449 nine hundred and twenty three and that probably was the catalyst for writing, for 67 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:36.689 writing smarder marketer, our book, where we realize that looks of these Classic 68 00:04:36.769 --> 00:04:42.120 Marketing Principles had moved their way into digital and the campaign that we were running 69 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:46.959 at the time the ones that were most successful campaigns that would have been successful 70 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.920 thirty forty years ago in a non digital context, and the days of spinning 71 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:55.550 up a technical seo campaign or a technical Google ads campaign we're kind of gone, 72 00:04:55.670 --> 00:04:59.829 and that to really succeed with digital marketing you had to apply a lot 73 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:02.990 of the rules and strategies that have been applied for the last Hundred Years in 74 00:05:03.350 --> 00:05:08.220 marketing. Absolutely, and I mean there's two things from what you just said. 75 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:12.819 One, I love that harking back to the old school copywriting and and 76 00:05:13.100 --> 00:05:16.019 add writing in those sorts of things. Many smart marketers that I've talked to 77 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:21.329 on the show offline in on Linkedin are just such big proponents of going back 78 00:05:21.370 --> 00:05:27.170 to some of those classics on Copywriting, because human psychology has a changed that 79 00:05:27.250 --> 00:05:30.370 much even in the last one hundred years. I mean you mentioned a book 80 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:33.569 that's a hundred years old. That's still that's still viable today. And the 81 00:05:33.689 --> 00:05:39.160 other aspect, you know, back in the day Seo was much more technical. 82 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.199 There are ways around those sorts of things, and I almost laugh in 83 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:45.759 our team was talking about this at a recent offsite retreat when you talk about 84 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.670 Seo, with every update of Google comes, you know, some people kind 85 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:54.310 of lose out and some people lose some ground and everybody freaks out about that. 86 00:05:54.670 --> 00:05:58.509 But what rises to the top the best content that answers the best question 87 00:05:58.509 --> 00:06:02.230 and answers the psychological or the material need of that searcher right, and so 88 00:06:02.790 --> 00:06:06.500 that's the good news. If you do have this mindset, this golden rule 89 00:06:06.579 --> 00:06:11.779 in mind that you talked about, the digital marketing is just marketing and move 90 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:15.860 from there. I love that. Number two on your list of the four 91 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.930 golden rules we're going to talk about today is never forget the complexity of a 92 00:06:19.089 --> 00:06:23.449 prospects real life. HAVING BEEN IN B Tob Sales for twelve years, I 93 00:06:23.529 --> 00:06:26.290 couldn't love this one more. It's also a little bit more about this one 94 00:06:26.569 --> 00:06:30.889 and what marketers and sales people are like need to think about when it comes 95 00:06:30.889 --> 00:06:33.120 to this rule. James, yeah, totally. I think this is a 96 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:39.519 concept which, five years ago, most non marketers would not agree with. 97 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:44.319 I think we're getting to a point now where, seen your sales business leaders 98 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:46.910 are starting to come around to this perspective. But essentially, for us, 99 00:06:47.470 --> 00:06:51.790 if we rewind ten fifteen years ago, if a client came to us gave 100 00:06:51.790 --> 00:06:56.949 us a hundred grand to invest in Google ads, you know, you drive 101 00:06:56.990 --> 00:07:00.910 you tenzero visitors, you generate you whatever it is, a couple of hundred 102 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:03.540 lads, you work out how many sales you get and then decide to pump 103 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:06.540 the money back at the top of the funnel by way of more budget next 104 00:07:06.579 --> 00:07:13.579 month. That's very much change. Where as consumers, we now have the 105 00:07:13.699 --> 00:07:15.529 control if we're going to buy a car, if we're we're going to engage 106 00:07:15.529 --> 00:07:19.850 in a you know, purchasing some complex software. For our business, we 107 00:07:20.009 --> 00:07:26.329 do a lot of the research online, multi device, typically multiple stakeholders within 108 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:30.800 an organization. If it's a BTC purchase, then it's a husband wife team. 109 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:34.399 They might be researching independently for the car that they're going to purchase in 110 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:39.000 eighteen months time. All of that happens before we pick up the phone or 111 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:43.120 fill out of form to speak to a sales ripp in an organization, so 112 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:47.149 that the bio behavior has changed. Digital now plays a role and gone are 113 00:07:47.149 --> 00:07:50.029 the days of, you know, a single touch point or a few easily 114 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:55.910 trackable touch points. We're talking about potentially hundreds of interactions. I think Google 115 00:07:56.910 --> 00:08:00.300 in their latest piece of research in it more in a BITTERC Specter, but 116 00:08:00.379 --> 00:08:03.860 in terms of purchasing a car, that we nine hundred digital touch points along 117 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:09.019 that average path to purchase. And we find the same thing working with a 118 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:11.970 lot of clients in complex be tob software as a service, for instance. 119 00:08:13.009 --> 00:08:16.569 It's virtually impossible to track that by a journey, you know, download of 120 00:08:16.610 --> 00:08:22.449 white papers, block articles, Webinars, potentially listening to a podcast. You 121 00:08:22.490 --> 00:08:26.769 might have a paddle of ten people in an organization on that path. So 122 00:08:26.889 --> 00:08:28.319 it's market as. I think we need to realize that we need to meet 123 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.480 people where they're at. We need to give them content, give information, 124 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.080 to meet them on their bier journey and very much move away from this concept 125 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.039 of a couple of touch points through the sale. Yeah, absolutely, and 126 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.629 I think the other thing that a lot of marketers have to keep in mind 127 00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:48.590 is that, you know, every touch point isn't necessarily going to be trackable. 128 00:08:48.629 --> 00:08:50.629 And you look at, you know, those hundreds of touch points in 129 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:56.059 a car purchase with maybe a husband and wife, for two people, head 130 00:08:56.259 --> 00:09:00.899 of household in that decision, most be to be mid market or enterprise. 131 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:03.820 are going to have seven, eight, nine, ten or more stakeholders in 132 00:09:03.940 --> 00:09:09.340 that decision at different points in the buying process, and so one. Yes, 133 00:09:09.620 --> 00:09:11.769 there is some challenges to tracking all of that and trying to tie that 134 00:09:11.889 --> 00:09:16.049 together, but at some point you've got to go back to, like what 135 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.690 you said earlier. Digital Marketing is just marketing. Are we focusing on who 136 00:09:20.809 --> 00:09:24.049 we know are the stakeholders in trying to put, you know, the right 137 00:09:24.210 --> 00:09:28.919 content in front of them, whether it is always every single step is attributable 138 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.320 and we can track it through, you know, the three stages of the 139 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.919 funnel or whatever the case might be. I think both are true, which 140 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.629 kind of leads us to golden rule number three on your list today, James. 141 00:09:39.950 --> 00:09:45.149 Understand data, but never forget it's limitations of being. I think kind 142 00:09:45.149 --> 00:09:46.429 of what I was saying there leads right into us all at it can. 143 00:09:46.470 --> 00:09:52.070 Let you take it from here, man, because good segue. Like yeah, 144 00:09:52.070 --> 00:09:54.860 I think that's the two are clearly very connected. That I mean back 145 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.299 in the day that the want to make a quote around. You know, 146 00:09:58.419 --> 00:10:01.779 half my half, money I'll spend an advertising is waste to the trouble is 147 00:10:01.779 --> 00:10:05.779 I don't know which half right right. Ten years ago, digital was the 148 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:09.289 answer to that ride, which is it's trackable. We can track every single 149 00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.090 click, we can track every single visit, we can track conversion rates, 150 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.649 we can take money out of poor performing campaigns and move them into successful campaigns. 151 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:20.289 and think in many ways, coming out of a digital marketing background, 152 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:26.039 we had this almost superiority complex over above the line and and offline advertising, 153 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.360 where it was very much invested money with us and we can tell you exactly 154 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:31.600 where it's going. And I think the really interesting thing there is is that 155 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:37.389 we're seeing a massive swing against that and that is because of the reality that 156 00:10:37.870 --> 00:10:41.710 the path to purchase it more complex and at once. was where we've got 157 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:46.990 better targeting, better remarketing, retargeting capabilities, we've got more sophisticated marketing automation, 158 00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:50.980 but the path to purchase is mirroring bard has always been offline, which 159 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:56.259 is complex and nuanced. So for us we absolutely obsess around measurement in the 160 00:10:56.340 --> 00:11:01.100 agency. We want to be able to make sure that we can track spend 161 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:05.450 through the outcome, but we also really working with clients to encourage them to 162 00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:11.090 realize that not every single thing can be tracked, that you need to invest 163 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:16.970 in brand so whether that's Seo content, even putting paid media behind brand development 164 00:11:16.970 --> 00:11:22.360 activities where you're pretty happy to not actually measure, you know, a dollar 165 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.120 for dollar outcome. But at the same time we're still encouraging clients to spend 166 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:30.279 probably in a bitter B context, probably forty to fifty percent of their budget 167 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:35.309 should be going into campaigns where we are looking at demand generation and Lee Generation. 168 00:11:35.990 --> 00:11:39.309 But super important to realize that you're not going to be able to measure 169 00:11:39.750 --> 00:11:43.149 the commercial outcome in a kind of a last click basis. So for us 170 00:11:43.190 --> 00:11:46.580 it's it's that, but then also with daughter or it's the bread and butter 171 00:11:46.700 --> 00:11:50.899 of making sure that a lot of your actual analytics and measurements set ups are 172 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:54.379 working. I said probably half the businesses that we order, even some pretty 173 00:11:54.379 --> 00:12:00.259 big sophistic headed businesses, they're actual tracking and analytics set up is just manifestly 174 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:03.490 wrong with the data that it's collecting. We still see massive issues with attribution 175 00:12:03.649 --> 00:12:09.889 where in house marketing teams don't have a proper measurement framework, where they're not 176 00:12:09.009 --> 00:12:15.720 properly attributing particularly first touch, Second Tash interactions with their brand and they're putting 177 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:20.600 a lot of weighting on on last click making decisions turning off channels that we're 178 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.120 actually driving high quality traffic in the first instance, but that traffic itself might 179 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:28.879 not have been converting on the first click. That's really interesting and I love 180 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.429 that percentage breakdown that you talk about in look at. Okay, the closer 181 00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:37.590 to sale, further down the funnel and into mansion efforts. Yeah, you 182 00:12:37.750 --> 00:12:41.549 want to follow all the best practices and connect your data and in attribute as 183 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:46.259 much as possible and and test as much as you can, but to think 184 00:12:46.340 --> 00:12:48.139 that, hey, we can apply that same sort of data and logic to 185 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:52.700 to every touch point. You know, and you talked about spending spending money 186 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:56.460 on that brand awareness. You know, just something tactically that's come up probably 187 00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:00.210 three or four times already this week and, as him mentioned at the time 188 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:03.129 of this reporting only Tuesday. You know, I see very few Bob Brands 189 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.730 who are willing to invest in, let's say, running ads for their video 190 00:13:07.850 --> 00:13:11.649 show or their podcast, because the podcaster, the video show. It is 191 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:16.720 brand awareness. It's very top of the funnel brand awareness thought leadership content in 192 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.720 general. I've seen some people, like you said, tray and mix that 193 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:22.679 and think that it's all. We need to treat this like the mansion and 194 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:28.309 we need to gape our podcast, which I think is just massively the wrong 195 00:13:28.350 --> 00:13:31.149 way to go. But then if you look at okay, we're going to 196 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:35.789 run ads for our show, you've got to have some commitment to spending money. 197 00:13:35.029 --> 00:13:39.750 You know, even that far above the funnel. But again, where 198 00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:43.340 people aren't doing things, when you zig, when everybody else is agging, 199 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:46.299 there's some green field opportunity. So I couldn't agree with you more in thinking 200 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:50.419 about where do we drill into the data and where do we just where do 201 00:13:50.500 --> 00:13:54.539 we just do good marketing at the same time, then how clients that get 202 00:13:54.620 --> 00:13:58.610 the best results out of fate of a Jigit a marketing of those that are 203 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:03.610 investing heavily in the brand development activities. And for us the starting point is 204 00:14:03.690 --> 00:14:07.730 fifty five percent towards brand, forty five percent towards to manage, and then 205 00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:11.639 we'll move that that number around depending on the client depending on the vertical, 206 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.559 depending on the industry, but the businesses that are completely obsessed with bottom of 207 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:22.000 the funnel late generation are inevitably paying more parlaid than those that are investing further 208 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:28.909 up the funnel. That's really interesting. Jane. Hey, everybody, logan 209 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:31.990 the sweet fish year. You probably already know that we think you should start 210 00:14:33.029 --> 00:14:35.509 a podcast if you haven't already. But what if you have and you're asking 211 00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:41.100 these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast impacted revenue this year? 212 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:46.220 How is our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? If you can't answer 213 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:50.539 these questions, you're actually not alone. This is why I cast it created 214 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:56.250 the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be Tobe podcasting. Now you 215 00:14:56.370 --> 00:15:01.129 can more easily search and share your audio content while getting greater visibility into the 216 00:15:01.289 --> 00:15:07.639 impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at drift terminus and here at sweet 217 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.039 fish have started using casted to get more value out of our podcasts, and 218 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.360 you probably can to. You can check out the product in action and casted 219 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:24.029 dot US growth. That's sea steed dot US growth. All right, let's 220 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:31.470 get back to the show. What are some of the things that you that 221 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:35.220 you've seen in some of those companies that have this setup that's leading to better 222 00:15:35.259 --> 00:15:41.220 outcomes with this fifty five percent on brand awareness, forty five percent man engine. 223 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:43.419 What are some of the things in the top of the funnel that are 224 00:15:43.460 --> 00:15:46.100 working really well for some brands right now? Yeah, well, I think 225 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.899 first of all, the businesses and brands that are willing to invest in the 226 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:54.730 long term, so they're willing to strength sink strategically and not being driven by 227 00:15:54.929 --> 00:16:00.330 monthly o quarterly styles marketing targets. They've got that ability to first of all 228 00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:04.080 plan properly and then they're doing the doing all the things we know about. 229 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:08.840 They're putting out awesome content. They are whether that's Seo, whether that's linked 230 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:14.000 in organic, whether that's Linkedin paid, whether it's Webinars, whether it's podcasts, 231 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:18.789 it's essentially high quality content that, as you touched on earlier, answers 232 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:22.669 the questions that there by a personas actually care about and nurturing at a way 233 00:16:22.789 --> 00:16:27.629 that is giving value. Right. So instead of sales driven out perspective to 234 00:16:27.710 --> 00:16:33.299 do to their email marketing and marketing automation, they're actually being genuinely useful and 235 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:37.059 providing value and then when it comes to the you know, the point where 236 00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:41.539 their prospects and looking to actually purchase their brand is already lifted up right. 237 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:45.659 Is A statistic in the book which I think comes from sticky branding by Jeremy 238 00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:51.370 Miller. I think it is that in any given market only about three percent 239 00:16:51.450 --> 00:16:55.129 of that market is ready to buy at any one moment. So if you're 240 00:16:55.129 --> 00:16:57.409 any kind of marketing to that three percent, you're selling yourself quaite short, 241 00:16:57.450 --> 00:17:02.080 as a business, you need to be investing in reaching that ninety seven percent 242 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.720 that you know one day will buy, but it is yet ready for it. 243 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.039 This is such a great reminder. I mean I think pit phone number 244 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.519 one is, okay, you're just spending a hundred percent on demand generation and 245 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.519 that's going to run out. And also the stat that you shared towards the 246 00:17:15.069 --> 00:17:18.750 second half of that response there, James, is that you're spending it and 247 00:17:18.829 --> 00:17:22.950 you're going to tap out that that three percent pretty quickly, the percent that 248 00:17:23.309 --> 00:17:27.349 is in market. And then I think the other pitfall is you are investing 249 00:17:27.390 --> 00:17:32.099 in brand awareness but the moment they give you any sort of contact information, 250 00:17:32.140 --> 00:17:34.940 you've got them. You know you've got that contact info. You go for 251 00:17:36.019 --> 00:17:38.779 that right hook. You you know, Gary V's book didn't Just Have One 252 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:41.740 jab in it and then the right hook. May think that's what some brands 253 00:17:41.779 --> 00:17:45.569 are doing. Is Job Right Hook. You know, I give them some 254 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:48.369 credit for at least throwing one jab, but you got to throw some more 255 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:52.890 jabs and identify when they're in that by mode and then go there, because 256 00:17:52.930 --> 00:17:56.130 then they are going to be thankful that you make it easy for them to 257 00:17:56.250 --> 00:17:59.519 buy you. You have a chat set up on your website, whether you 258 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.480 use and hub spot or drift or intercom or something like that, and you 259 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:04.920 make it easy to engage with your sales team, because when people are are 260 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:08.240 ready to buy, it's really frustrating when they can't get the answers and they 261 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.079 can't get in touch with your sales team. But I think so often we're 262 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.470 just we're going for that right hook way too early. You've definitely like minded 263 00:18:15.509 --> 00:18:17.950 with us and I love some of the data that you're sharing. That the 264 00:18:18.029 --> 00:18:19.589 backs up some of the things that we're just talking about internally a lot here 265 00:18:19.630 --> 00:18:25.910 at sweet fish. James also touch on golden rule number four before we wrap 266 00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:30.019 up today, and that's nothing is more important than the message. As we 267 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:33.859 wrap today. James, tell us a little bit about this one and what's 268 00:18:33.940 --> 00:18:37.779 in your mind and what are some of those successful brands that you're working with 269 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:41.369 doing around this golden rule? Yeah, wellsome, you think you touched on 270 00:18:41.609 --> 00:18:45.369 a little bit earlier. What you're kind of saying that, even from your 271 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:48.450 perspective, is you know, at some level, is probably a demistified itself 272 00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:52.450 the last plots to ten years, and it's the brands that pumping up wholesome, 273 00:18:52.490 --> 00:18:56.240 quality content that that are slowly rising to the top. And that's my 274 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.440 general take on digital marketing, where if we all agree that the technical elements 275 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.720 are being slowly taken out of the craft, what's remaining right, and that's 276 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:10.150 typical classic marketing, which is traditionally relied heavily on messaging. And for us, 277 00:19:10.869 --> 00:19:15.589 you just can't sustain success digitally without having the right message and the right 278 00:19:15.670 --> 00:19:21.069 offers to the right people. And every every month, brands like linkedin and 279 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:26.460 Google are introducing more and more automation into their AD platforms, into their organic 280 00:19:26.539 --> 00:19:30.099 algorithms. And as a marketer, as a digital market are lots of the 281 00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:33.740 things that previously were done by people and now being done by machines. And 282 00:19:34.299 --> 00:19:38.849 that trends not going away. So what remains is the ability for humans to 283 00:19:40.009 --> 00:19:44.410 craft strategy and to craft messaging. I firmly believe that we're not going to 284 00:19:44.450 --> 00:19:48.809 have bots that are pumping out automated, Ay driven messaging and content which will 285 00:19:48.849 --> 00:19:55.119 be able to hit a human the way that that high quality copy and high 286 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.720 quality messaging can. They might be tools that assisted, but at the end 287 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:03.799 of the day it's messaging which you emotionally impacts humans and drives into action. 288 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:08.390 So for us, the most important thing in all of our campaigns is messaging. 289 00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:12.549 To put good quality content out there, you need to understand who you're 290 00:20:12.589 --> 00:20:18.390 trying to move and need to understand their motivators, fears, objections, who 291 00:20:18.430 --> 00:20:22.539 they are and you need it intimately understand the productile service that you're looking to 292 00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:29.180 actually promote as well. We often find that a lot of the sergeants ill 293 00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:32.940 up at people will market as that the way dealing with don't truly understand the 294 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:37.329 benefit that their product will bring to their end user. Absolutely, I mean 295 00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:41.809 it goes back to that that point about understanding the complexity of our buyers lives, 296 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:45.809 understanding, you know, what they're what they're trying to accomplish. I 297 00:20:45.130 --> 00:20:49.200 just did a post on linkedin today about why sales people should be creating content 298 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.319 and and they should be working with marketing. I'm not saying they should just 299 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.039 go out and create their own content and and you know kind of if marketing 300 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.359 wants something to do with them or to collaborate with them, that they should 301 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:06.710 just push that aside. But those sales people are talking daytoday with with potential 302 00:21:06.789 --> 00:21:10.990 buyers, and so just an encouragement to marketers. If you're not listening to 303 00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:14.869 recorded sales calls, if you're not, you don't don't have a close relationship 304 00:21:14.910 --> 00:21:18.579 with your vp of sales or what whoever your sales leader. Counterpoint and not 305 00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:22.220 just Oh hey, we attend the same leadership meetings and we get along, 306 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:26.859 but how are we working together to treat that feedback loop between what are our 307 00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:30.140 prospects saying, what are our customers saying, what are they asking for, 308 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:34.049 and how do we use that to inform our message and our content? And 309 00:21:34.450 --> 00:21:37.609 it's got to be you know, back to the very beginning of the show 310 00:21:37.690 --> 00:21:41.210 today, James, things are changing so quickly. It can't be this. 311 00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:45.250 Oh, we do this annually and now we set out it needs to be 312 00:21:45.410 --> 00:21:49.599 on a regular rhythm. I agree with everything you're saying today, James. 313 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:55.200 If people listening to this would like to go deeper on more than these four 314 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:56.880 golden rules, find a copy of the book or just stay connected with you 315 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.400 online or reach out and follow up question. What's the best way for them 316 00:22:00.430 --> 00:22:03.549 to connect with you? Yeah, for sure, I think get first and 317 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:07.710 foremost. I absolutely love Linkedin, so feel free to connect with me. 318 00:22:08.509 --> 00:22:12.630 UN So, James, Lawrence Oz is my linkedn't handle. Yeah, always 319 00:22:12.670 --> 00:22:17.099 love to connect and you know, mark it as world wide or business owners 320 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:22.420 worldwide. Fantastic. The company website is rockets Agencycom Goda, you were just 321 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:26.339 there with the contact form. And if you're looking to puchase the poken learn 322 00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:30.690 more, it's available on Amazon to the Book Smarter Market Up. I love 323 00:22:30.730 --> 00:22:33.410 it, James. Thank you so much for joining me our cross time zones 324 00:22:33.450 --> 00:22:36.410 and having a great conversation on the show today. Well, some leg and 325 00:22:36.490 --> 00:22:42.730 thanks thanks to you and thanks to listeners. I hate it when podcasts incessantly 326 00:22:42.809 --> 00:22:47.079 ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because 327 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.920 reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast. Audience. So 328 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:53.000 here's what we decided to do. If you leave a review for be tob 329 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:57.480 growth in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James at 330 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:02.150 Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, 331 00:23:02.190 --> 00:23:04.829 content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 332 00:23:06.309 --> 00:23:08.190 We get a review, you get a free book. We both win.
