Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media.
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I'm doing today by Nicholas Vandenberg.
He's the cofounder and CEO over at
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Chili Piper. Nicholas, how's it
going today, Sir Kay, great,
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how are you doing? I am
doing very well. I am excited to
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chat with you today. We're going
to be talking about ways to optimize your
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inbound lead conversion for higher conversion rates, and I think it couldn't be a
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more timely subject. I was just
talking with Chris Walker here on the show
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several episodes back about how companies really
need to optimize for inbound right now because
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of everything that's going on, outbound
is going to see some plateauing or some
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drop off, so you really want
to make sure that your best qualified inbound
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leads are converting at a high rate. Before we get into some of the
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strategies and some of the data that
you guys have uncovered enabling companies to optimize
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their inbound conversion rates, why are
you guys so passionate about it over there
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at Chili Piper? Well, we
heats upon big problem that, for some
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reason, had not got much attention
and it's a huge problem. We discovered
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that most be to be companies satisfied
with the idea of converting forty percent of
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the inboon leads. And if you
put that way that sounds reasonably well.
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But if you think of it that, it means a sixty out of a
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hundred people who have come as a
lead don't even get an meeting anything.
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Where as a problem there. So
when we hit that CCC is amazing and
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we came up with the solution with
it. We have to fix that problem
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right. So we very passionate that
the old way of me to be companies
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handled in moon leads broken and that
it should get fixed and everybody should use
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a solution to to cover uped.
Well, we do that, we get
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to conversion rate there on eighty percent. So we can discuss in detail how
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that happens. And if you,
if you think of it, you you
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can, with the same Brocktam dollars, get twice as much pipeline and revenues.
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Then you see the sense of urgency
that we want to convey to the
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bucket. That's why we passion it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean just
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flipping that stat that forty percent conversion
rate on its head kind of looks at
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it through a different Lens. The
other thing is that these are oftentimes your
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most qualified opportunities, because there are
people who are coming directly to you,
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who are raising their hand and saying
I want more information, as opposed to
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outbound where you know that you're going
to hit people who are either not the
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right decision maker or not not at
the right time, or you just maybe
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don't have the right fit right and
so when you look at Hey, sixty
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out of a hundred or not even
getting a meeting, and they are some
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of our most qualified opportunities, then
there really should be an emphasis here.
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Right, that's exactly right. Yeah, awesome. Well, Nicholas, one
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of the first things that you guys
recommend for a lot of your cuss smrs
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is optimizing your landing pages and your
Etas. We're going to get into some
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other things about the speed in which
reps respond and or able to get in
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touch with those in bound leads,
ways that you can optimize your follow up
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that are going to lead to higher
conversions, that double conversion rate that you
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quoted there. Let's start with some
of maybe the low hanging fruit of just
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optimizing landing pages CTAs. What are
some of the kind of nuts and bolts,
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the first things that you guys are
recommending as you look to get that
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forty percent up for a lot of
BB companies? Yeah, so at first
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thought that speed matters and as the
results, we want to go straight to
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the right goal, to action,
which is request and meeting. Right.
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So we did. All landing pages
are optimized to all this idea of request
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to meeting and get that form feel
very quickly, short form optimize. And
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then when we found it that our
conversion rates to these from visitors to meeting
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request was very low and upon my
thought, we said we realize that some
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of these these tres are just not
ready. It just not ready to request
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a meeting. And that landing page
was intimidating. So then we test with
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that where horb but we just give
some more content and maybe some gated content.
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So it's you know already, but
maybe you'd actual learn more. Maybe
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we can be helpful another way.
So obviously the analogy was dating. Is
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Obvious. Right to say slacker,
Howe. But we go home and s
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well, no, we don't know
each other. So well, how about
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I tell you some stories then that
you may find entertaining useful. So that
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that's was the depict you. Of
course, within that remo can do all
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sorts of optimidation by persona. So
we found that interestingly, lead conversion touches
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two different department, demands and and
sales. Right. So sales is intoes,
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is responsible for taking these leads and
converting them. Demandin is responsible for
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bringing these leads and and that conversion
is at the middle. So we quickly
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realize that we need to have a
slightly different way to talk to self ces,
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demand and, as you can imagine. So we do differences or landing
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pages based on the persona that we
expect. We do a fair amountability linked
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in advertising where we can. We
know which Personi is coming and then with
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without the type of religion, which
try to from the key words, which
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way to guess the kind of persona. But the most important thing I would
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say is is this lending page and
called to action is that? Don't get
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the wrong call to action. It
is too early. You have to get
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a call to action that's compatible with
the level of interest that most like you
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visit just find themselves. So that's
what we've separated the two. We have
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a now smoother process where you're going
to first be introduced to content, but
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if you have a high intend then
we go straight to the meeting request.
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And then that key part is when
you get that meeting request because, as
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you said, then you have the
most quality fide person you they are interesting
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in having a meeting and that's beginning
of the golden process of opportunity, right,
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so that when you don't want to
miss and that's what we're come the
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next one, the next tips in
conversion. One of them is scoring.
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To make sure that you understand how
would have a lead. It is some
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companies. It varies from one space
to the other, but some companies have
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to deal with a lot of unqualified
leads. People were in the wrong place.
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So so far them is very critical. Other companies don't have as much
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of a problem. But if you
do, it makes sense that you don't
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want to waste anybody's time by getting
meetings booked and held when the process are
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qualified. So that qualification is critical
and what we do Atilla paper that we
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automate that process. So let me
before I get into more details of what
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needs to happen to convert that meeting
request optimately, let me remind every one
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of the existing process. So the
hurt was done. So the heart prospect
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would fill the form submit and say
yes, I want to have a demo
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with you and get the thank you
page. Thank you. Somebody's going to
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call you. And you left one
doering who's going to call me and when?
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And it happened to get Linkedin,
where they'd say they this coll to
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action or if you wanted to buy
linkedin cells, navigate, are you to
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talk to yourself rep? So it
submitted my request, you took to a
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sales rep and then I thought they
never called me, and then I found
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out two weeks later that somebody did
call me the next morning. It was
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a forid number, which I didn't
pick up because I don't have a friend
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for it number. And then there
was the call and whatever message was left
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that in listen because I get a
lot of spam messages. So that was
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a lost opportunity and that's what happened
to this company. That's how they lose
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sixty out of a hundred requests,
is because the follow up is done in
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the way it is too late or
you don't get to connect. So that's
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in wrong to us and what we
did that. We build piece of the
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javascript could that companies can put in
their page. So it's very simple.
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It just had like you would add
the Google analytics in your page, and
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that piece of Davas we been real
time is going to qualify the lead based
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on the data available, and so
we mentioned the scoring and other pieces of
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data. In real time. If
the lead is qualify, we're going to
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find the REP that should be talking
to that person based on company size,
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region, round robin, whichever makes
sense for the company. We're going to
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dial the REP, dial the prospect
and connect them in real time. And
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it's not possible to the repres not
available, we're going to retrieve the reps
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calendar and say hey, why don't
you because time that works for you.
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So the prospect can say is shore
us this afternoon at five or two row
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at the ten, click the button
and is confirmed. So from a buyer
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experience, now it went from a
wondering who's going to call to either being
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on the phone or having a time
that works well already scheduled, and then
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you would expect him. A huge
difference in the huge is actually double,
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which means that we go from forty
percent to eighty percent in this one magical
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when javascript. So that's what we
recommends it look and there are a lot
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of studies showing the decline with time. So the longer you wait, the
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less lucky you are to convert.
Sometime we friend companies. It's interesting.
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It happened to me last week.
Say, Oh, we could at it.
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We we we have a process we
follow. Within one minute it happened
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to me as we say, Oh, yeah, do you manufact tried?
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So, here you here, you
hear some shaking the voice. Well,
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today is not a great day because
you know it's yeah, Yeast Day.
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Ten Am is not the best for
really throes. It's an am the problem
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or right, well, I's see
what happens. Right and then yeah,
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was I said, bait the form. Nobody calls me. Here we wait,
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we wait. I by the end
of my meeting them, but seeing
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nobody has called the because it's a
neusion to think that human beings if to
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put I don't know, five sales
development reps and and they all going to
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be calling with in there is again. It's just doesn't happen. They may
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be on another cold and maybe something. It's just not in any case.
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That's a fun job to be consistent. YEARE's right. It's a really great
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way to put it. Yes,
it's just it's not it's not sustainable.
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It's not real less sick in the
real world. Can it happen in a
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one off scenario? Yes, but
can you sustain that? CAN THAT BE?
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You know, your benchmark, and
that leader you were talking to might
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say that. Yeah, you know, occasionally or often maybe we're able to
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respond here, but the moment you
said, let me try it and let's
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see, you know what happens.
Is that truly your average? Is that
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truly you know what happens? The
majority of the time, there's there's some
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back peddling, and I don't say
we recently made a change. We're using
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different tools. But you know,
when someone came to sweet fish Mediacom requested
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information, our process was then for
them to get a series of automated emails.
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So we were we were skipping that. Hey, it has to go
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to a salesperson, they have to
send an email. So we were we
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were a little bit better than the
worst case scenarios you were talking about.
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But in that email was hey,
here's a little bit of information. Do
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you want to book meeting. Here's
the availability. Well, you're asking that
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person then to switch different medium right
to from the page that they're on to
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check their email. What if that
email doesn't come through, just like your
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phone call didn't get through to you
in one way or another, one reason
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or another, and then book a
meeting there. What we've gone to now
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is filling out the form and we're
not to the stage of where your customers
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are, Nicholas, with connecting with
a rep real time on the phone.
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But the other part that you talked
about we are doing. Okay, they
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click that, they get an email, but they also are presented with a
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calendar to just pick a time that
works for them, right there on the
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page that they're on, and we've
seen that conversion rate go up. So
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I can attest to you know not
only what you're talking about with your tool,
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but just the methodology is definitely sound, because we've seen that when you
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reduce that friction, when you make
it happen in real time, one way
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or another, you are going to
increase your conversion rates. So you know,
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we've talked about we've talked about speed. What are some of the other
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things that you guys are recommending?
To to your customers or that you guys
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have done internally. Maybe we go
a little bit further into the way you
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guys are doing it, with whichever
makes sense here, Nicholas, in the
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proper follow up, because meeting booked. Now we want to get to meeting
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held right is another key conversion point. Can you talk about kind of the
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next step in the process there?
Yes, and before we talk about the
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how to best to increase the attendance
rate, which you exactly rights another former
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of you, if you schedule a
meeting, the question before that's into what
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kind of meeting do you have to
have? And companies in need to be
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well, often the involves DAS and
they could have this habit of involsy asking
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the first such point. Then they
assume that that foot the meeting should be.
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And that's a very interesting question,
because if the job of meeting is
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just to schedule a time, then
since you skating real time, you don't
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need that right. So, but
as resistance to change, so people think,
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well, it's still important then to
to that press code with the sea.
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Of course we just to change of
on the idea as also, because
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I think I'm going to lose my
job because if I'm not needed anymore.
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The reality that you have to think
is that call adds value to the process
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and what we've found it that in
many cases it's not. You can get
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the qualification information from the form.
So in our case we integrate. We
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CE RMS and we need to ask
what's your engine integrating reason do that?
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Another see I am and a small
typically we found that the solution is not
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optimal. So we ask this question. We in real time. We use
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the data to qualify. In other
companies it's a bit more tricky. One
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of our customers is, to you, the telephony as Omation Company, and
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what they found it that to qualify
the prospect you have to know if they
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have a project, that is,
if they've already because you know, they
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sell two developers and they end and
they find that if people are just looking
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for information, is not worth the
time of the sales person. Is Best
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to send them for to online data
and PDF and documents. I can read,
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but if they have a project,
then they're ready to talk to a
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sales person and actually by the solution
and it's very hard to say in a
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form. Do you have a project? Like are real? Is your projects
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right? You say you really working
or you just yes's again. It's kind
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of like putting the question of how
much budget do you have right. So
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what what are some of your advice
around like getting that information but not coming
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across kind of too heavy handed?
Back to your point earlier, you don't
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want to, you know, ask
the person to come home or to marry
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you when you just met right.
Yeah, it's the same thing is there.
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You come go too fast. That
that's why we put in our in
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our things that don't speak to don't
go too fast. But of course,
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when it comes to from submission,
you want to go very fast and in
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connect in real time. But whhen
you wants to what step you're taking,
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then you want to get the right
step, and the right step in this
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case, for t Willio, it's
you ever Nice they are of the discussion
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and say like I like to hear
what you send. You to the right
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resource and then you the assist up
and rep can find that it does a
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project and qualifizes. So that's a
very important step in the process and nobody
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waste waste time that they need.
In I would say, the majority of
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cases, you don't need that.
You have the person, your core effect
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from the daysie. In no case, we go straight to the account executive
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and we scalue the demo. It's
a forty five minute demo and we will
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straight to that process. So that's
a very important peace to make the buy
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your experience much more pleasant, because
the buyer is going to go only to
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the steps that are useful and to
make sure that the Accountlat chieves time is
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use optimally. Then there's the questions. I want to come up with meeting
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books to make sure is attended.
So what we've done is built automation around
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meeting reminders and meeting spread by email. So we typically have automated reminders to
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make sure that personal accept the meeting. Then we have a meeting and what
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we found is that we do twenty
four hours, one hour, one minute,
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so twenty four hour to remain meeting
tomorrow and I'll before to make sure
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you get to organized. In a
minute before Betawen, it is time to
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come on the call. And we
also found that reminding the prospect why they
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came right. So you interested in
looking at mission for the lead, and
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this is what we can each other. Is a very effective way to Gim
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meetings. We get companies booking a
lot of meetings with no show rate.
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Instead of attendance, the measure no
show right. So I'm many sure didn't
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show up. Thirty five percent,
so more than one in three would en
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show up and we front them to
ten percent, when in ten or no
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shore it is lower than ten percent. But some companies have the more transactional
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business where people just book and show
and the real the way we reduced from
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the thirty five to ten or less
is through these automated reminders that well crafted,
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so the keeps the attention live or
the way to the time of the
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movie. Hey, everybody, logan
with sweet fish here. You probably already
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know that we think you should start
a podcast if you haven't already. But
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what if you have and you're asking
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House our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST
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All right, let's get back to
the show. I like what you
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said there and I think that's very
tactical. Nicholas, talking about okay,
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three reminders for one meeting, twenty
four hours, one hour, one minute.
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So you answered kind of the the
timing and cadence of that a little
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bit that you guys have found works
well. The content of that, reminding
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them why they took the meeting.
Can you speak any more to maybe some
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testing you guys have done or different
customers have done in should should those three
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emails be the same except for you
know how much time until the meeting or
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something like that, or do you
find that reinforcing the why in the first
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email, number two, maybe giving
them a resource to kind of give them
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some more context going in, and
then the one minute you have the why
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again, or maybe you just have
the time. Can you speak to any
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nuance there that you guys have tested
or tried or seen work well a sentence.
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You have an intrution that they should
be different, and you exactly right.
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Exactly where really found the one minute
before, if it's one minute,
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is not the time to go into
a long speech about why you're doing it.
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H is just say hey, I'm
there, just click that button.
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So it's a one minute before is
a call to action. With the in
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our case we use zoom, and
here we're not the only one these days.
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So we send the dooom link right
in the video. The line subject
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clients a ready, when you are
and the makings they are. That's that's
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this only purpose of that. emails. Make it easy, make it convenient.
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You get an email. I show
start to go, I kick here
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and stead of going back to my
calendar, the the one hour before is
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a very friendly recap. It is
a short paragraph, where the twenty four
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hours before is is a longer paragraph
with more details on the motivation. The
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one hour before the interesting one.
We also have found that we include in
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the one hour before, we include
a rescheduling. So that was actually controversial
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with company. Say I don't want
to make easy for my prospect to reschedule.
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I'm not putting a rescheduling. So
or rescheduling is automated right. So
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if you click on the reschedule link, we find a meeting with show you
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other available times. You don't need
to talk to anybody. You see these
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times out to pick another and boom, emitting is res adjusted for that new
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time with everything for it. So
it's a very, very elegant process for
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the buyer to Chenn and time and
what we found it that it's better to
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offer the option to reschedule and to
lose the meeting rights. Cool. If
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people need to reschedule, then I's
going to show up and that's your chance
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to save that meeting. So the
rescheduling is actually helping increase attendance rate fromendously.
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We have a counter on how many
people have reschedule in our record is
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seventeen times. So we had a
prospect to reschedule seventeen times. So seven
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in time there was a meeting to
be held and the clicks. They know
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that. To dinner today I talk
about somebody and certain but eventually the meeting
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was held. You know, if
you go to the trouble every time we're
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scaling, you mean to say,
look at do want to add it,
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but today's not the right time.
So so that's something that we include in
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that email one hour before it's a
it's a very effective way to make the
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buyers like easy. Absolutely well,
Nicklas, this has been a great conversation.
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We've touched on a lot of things. I think you know, I
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kind of summed it up in five
different areas. One, making sure that
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you're optimizing your landing pages in your
CTA, is making sure that those CTAs
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aren't too heavy handed and also that
you're segmenting those, both the CTA and
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the landing page, based on if
you have different personas, and you provided
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a great example there. You guys
sell to demand Jin as well as sales
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that are involved in the buying process
of your own product, and then from
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them. They are making sure that
you're qualifying and routing more easily. You're
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making it easy for the speed to
conversion is is better because as time,
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you know the old saying and sales
right is time kills all deals, time
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kills all all leads. I think, as well as something we can pull
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from this conversation today. Number Four
for me was making sure that every meeting
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actually adds value and it's not just
a legacy of previous processes before you've applied
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technology like yours or other meeting tools, and then meeting reminders. I love
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this, this cadence that you've worked
out with the three different emails and how
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to space them out and what to
use in them, how to vary up
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the content their Nicholas, if anybody
listening to this has wants to go deeper
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into some other content you guys have
on inbound lead conversion or enabling your sales
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reps to book and hold meetings more
regularly. What's the best way for them
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to get in touch with you or
find more content from you and the Chili
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Piper team? Yeah, it's come
to our website to Piper. So a
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lot of people that confuse with TV
pepper with actually Piper to pay on the
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word right Piper, as in pipeline. So Chit Piper that'scome. We share
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amount of contents with additional data,
coversion rates the B would you send an
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email? We suggisted times to make
it easy for people to book and then
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when you're ready to change you in
long process. You should book a meeting
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with one of the sales RAPP and
of course we use all solution so hope
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on a film. So, Michon, you'd be connected immediately and the go
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to. It's up to one of
us. I love it. Well,
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Nicholas, this has been a great
conversation. For anyone listening who liked this
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episode, you might also want to
check out episode thirty four with Chris Walker.
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He's been a repeat guest on the
show here. That episode was why
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you should ramp up your content marketing
right now. Back to what we mentioned
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at the top of the conversation,
why inbound is such an important channel right
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now, with everything going on around
us, with this pandemic, it is
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not the time to pull back on
your content strategies. It's time to make
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sure that you're driving more inbounding you're
converting it at a much higher rate.
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So, between what Nicholas shared today
and check out that episode with Chris Walker,
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I think you will be a well
set up to have some more tools
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in your tool box right now to
driving more in Poundman, Nicholas, thank
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00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:18.019
you so much for joining us on
the show today. It was a pleasure,
346
00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:25.369
my pleasure. I hate it when
podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews,
347
00:24:25.609 --> 00:24:29.089
but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when
348
00:24:29.089 --> 00:24:32.170
you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do.
349
00:24:32.609 --> 00:24:34.410
If you leave a review for me
to be growth and apple podcasts,
350
00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:38.799
and email me a screenshot of the
review to James at Sweet Fish Mediacom,
351
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.400
I'll send you a signed copy of
my new book, content based networking,
352
00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:47.079
how to instantly connect with anyone you
want to know. We get a review,
353
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:48.240
you get a free book. We
both win.