Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to be tob growth.
I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media.
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Today I'm joined by Adams bringer.
He's the founder over at startup sales and
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the host of the startup sales podcast. Adam, welcome to the show.
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How's it going today? Man,
I'm really excited. Thanks, Logan.
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Absolutely. We're going to be talking
about better understanding your prospects, pain points
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and really what to do about that. Before we get into today's topic,
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though, Adam, give us a
little bit of background, a little bit
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of context. Why is this something
that you're so passionate about? and well,
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it kind of started a long time
ago. You know, I've always
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been a salesperson my whole life,
one of those lifer guys. But as
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soon as I kind of got into
be to be and more complicated sales process,
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I started seeing like a lot of
the mistakes that the companies were making,
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in the sales people are making.
So I started to break it down
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and look for myself on how I
can meet that quota and achieve it,
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and that's allowed me to like really
break it down and see the patterns,
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and that's how I like got started
and then since then I've I've actually been
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the first sales person for three different
startups and and one of them's Unicorn,
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one of them's on its way and
the other one is doing very successful.
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So that's how I kind of got
going and why I really like this.
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Yeah, absolutely, Man. I
for the last two years have been the
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first sales person in a fast growth
company here at sweet fish, so I
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can definitely relate to that. was
very new to me. For Ten years
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I was in sales in more established
industry, more established company. So it's
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definitely a different ball of wax.
So what you alluded to there is actually
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the first thing I kind of wanted
to dig into. Is What is the
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problem that you've noticed in most sales
processes when it comes to uncovering pain and
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then using that effectively to sell into
the organization or the buyers perceived pain?
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Well, I think the biggest problem
is the pain is ignored. A lot
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of companies just think that hey,
we've got such a great product, people
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will buy it because it's so fantastic, and then that's not the case,
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and but that's how they sell it. They go to the demo, they
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go to the calls and all they
talked about is how great their features are
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and all the benefits of it,
but that's not how people buy, you
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know, it's it's kind of like
if you're walking to a used car lot
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and the guy comes up to you, the car salesman comes out to you
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and just like, look at this
car, it's got the cool radio.
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It's like, well, you don't
care about the radio, you want to
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you know, you want big wheels
for off roading, and they didn't take
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the time to to understand that pain. Yeah, absolutely. I have a
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story that I've shared on linkedin exactly
like that. Will probably link to that
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in the show notes. It was
literally, you know, as buying our
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first SUV as a family, had
our first kid and we were looking to
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upgrade because I had a little volks
so I can getle my wife had a
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dodgeny on both very small cars.
It suck to get the baby seat in
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and out of that. And you
know, I was on the car lot
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and I hear the heels of the
sales lady walking up behind me and she
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proceeds to show me this giant suburban
with tricked out rims and leather seats and
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all these different things issues, pointing
out all these things that I was trying
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to tell her I do not care
about I care about safety. I don't
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want something this big, and she
just was not listening and she was like,
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well, look how cool this is
and look at this leather and I
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was like I don't care, but
she was just completely not listening. So
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that is a perfect example of what
not to do and I think it's awesome
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you bring that up because that's like
the quintessential story in my mind, of
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dealing with the salesperson on the other
end. So you've talked about before,
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Adam. There as the way you
define it, there are really three different
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types of pain points. Can you
unpack those a little bit and then we'll
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get into how to identify those and
then what to do as you identify the
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different types of pain points that you're
uncovering, if you're doing better discovery,
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better qualification, unlike the used car
sales people that we've dealt with in the
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past. Man, that's a loaded
question. The three different kind of pain
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points that that I found they are
they fall into the say of these three
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categories over and over again, and
it was before I actually explain what they
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are. It's really important to also
keep in mind that it depends on the
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persona, of who you're talking to, because the same pain could be felt
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in a different way depending on the
persona. So that it will make sense
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in a minute. So the first
pain type is financial. So that could
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be this cost a lot of money, or it could even be man hours,
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like it this, this takes me
five hours a day to accomplish.
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Well, that cought time, is
money. So that's the first one.
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The second one would be emotional.
So let's say, as a salesperson,
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I hate logging calls and I hate
putting everything into the crm, but that's
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an emotional pain. That's not a
financial pain. And then the third one
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is a business need, something that
the business has to have in order to
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continue doing business. So, for
example, we, especially in these times,
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we need zoom or some kind of
communication channel to talk to people,
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and so that's a need to have
in order to do business. So those
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are the three kinds. Now,
if you're a CEO and a financial pain,
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let's say if you're selling a crm, a financial pain is like,
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okay, you're going to be able
to track better, keep better track of
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your your prospects as they go through
the funnel. So that's the benefit of
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a crm. But the pain is
is right now we're not. We're losing
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prospects and they're falling through the crack. So that's the pain and that's a
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financial pain. For the sales person, the same pain is felt as an
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emotional pain because now I have I'm
following, I have prospects falling through the
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cracks and it makes me look poorly, it makes me look poorly to my
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management and makes me lose my potential
rays that I was going to get,
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which kind of goes into financial but
it's the same pain but it falls into
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different categories. Yeah, okay,
makes sense. And then business need in
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that same sort of scenario might be, hey, we need visibility into how
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our sales velocity, we need visibility
into those sort of numbers so that we
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can forecast accurately, so that we
can present the right information that investors are
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asking for. Is In this scenario? Is that kind of what you would
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categorize as some of the business needs
felt in this in this a crm example?
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I mean you're on the right track, but I would say no,
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and the reason is is because it
should be a need. You should have
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visibility, but you don't really need
it in order to do business. So
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the lack thereof tends to be a
financial pain. But a business need is,
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let's say you're in the health tech
and you need come hip a compliance
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well, and I sell hippo compliance. That's a need. That's something that's
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very strong. You need to have
this. If you don't have it,
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you're not going to be in business. Yeah, those sort of regulatory compliance
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things, legal needs that you know
there is going to be severe consequences,
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not not necessarily opportunity cost or missed
financial gain, but kind of a and
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either or a yes no, a
past bail, if you will. Those
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are the sorts of things you want
to look for in the business need.
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All right, that makes total sense
to me. What are some of the
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ways that you're coaching sales people adam
to uncover the different types of needs?
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have their radar up for okay,
I I know what the financial need is,
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but I don't know if I've connected
anything emotionally here to uncover, because
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you know, as Todd Capony has
been on the show in the past,
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saying we tend to think that be
to be buying is logical. It's actually
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a lot more emotional. We make
the decision emotionally and then we back it
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up with logic and with reason,
quote unquote. If you're watching this,
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you can see the air quotes.
If not, then maybe not. But
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talk to us a little bit about
uncovering each one of these and some of
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the strategies to ask better questions,
to not just say hey, do you
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need this? How many seats do
you need? Right, that's just basic
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qualification. That's not really discovery,
right exactly, and that's not really driving
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up the pain either, because in
order to drive up the pain it you
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need them to speak about the problems
that they're having, not you telling them,
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Hey, you have this problem,
because, while that is true,
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it's not as impactful as them telling
you. While, yeah, I spend
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three hours a day doing this,
it's so repetitive and it's so boring and
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it's causing me to lose lose time
and and momentum on other aspects of what
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I need to get down on a
daily basis. So it's really important to
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do this excess siys. And in
order to go deeper, what you first
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want to do is lit take that
list of financial, emotional business needs,
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write down each of the different pains
that you have as per your your persona
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that you sell to and then take
like, let's say, the top two
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or the top three. If you
could do this even more, it's even
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better. But you take the top
two or three of each and you break
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it down on to a much deeper
level. So in order to do that,
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you you could draw out a quadrant
and on the left side you have
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pain, which people want to move
away from. Typically, most people want
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to move away from pain. And
what do they want to move towards?
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They will go to the other side, which is pleasure. So you're in
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a sales deal. You're trying to
get people away from their pain and towards
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their pleasure. But you have things
that are happening now and you have things
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that are happening in the future.
So that's your quadrants. You have pain
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in the now, pain in the
future, pleasure in the now pleasure in
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the future. So the pain in
the now is a frustration and then pain
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in the future is something that you're
scared of. Pleasure in the now is
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a want, pleasure in the future
is a dream, and so if you
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actually kind of pause and draw that
out, what you will actually see is
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you'll have a broke down into those
four quadrants. And what you want to
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do is take that pain point that
we discovered later, earlier, and we
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want to really figure that out here. How does this affect my persona,
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the person that I'm speaking with that
pain point? How does that pain point
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affect them in these ways? What
is this pain point x, let's call
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it? What is a frustration that
comes from pain point x? What are
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something that they're scared of from pain
point x? If we don't get this
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solved, and the dream and want
is pretty much just the opposite. So
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once you actually start the map that
out, then you really get to get
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a good empathy and the picture of
what your client is experiencing, what they
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what pain they have and what they
need. And then from there you could
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really dive down and and ask the
right questions during the qualification calls. But
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it goes beyond that. Using this, let's say you want to put an
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explanation video on your website. Most
people put an explanation video. Here's our
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product, here's what it does,
and it well, that's cool. It's
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features again, but if you use
it where you touch points all four points
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of their pain, then your explanation
video. When they and the person watches
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it, they're like, wow,
this is exactly what I'm feeling, this
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is exactly what I'm what I need
right here. They've you've sold them on
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just on the explanation video. Everything
else is a technicality, you know,
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pricing in everything and just over say
has to getting budget and things. But
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once you have that, it's it's
Golden. Yeah, I love the way
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you laid that out. So,
looking at it visually, you go you've
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got pain pleasure. Sure, that's
kind of your ex access. Your y
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axis is is now, in future, you've got frustration or want, and
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then you've got something they're scared of
or fear. To make that one word
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fear or dream. So frustration or
want, fear or dream. And Yeah,
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I like the connection you made here
to not only sales people but to
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marketers as well. You know,
we recently redesigned our entire website at sweet
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fish mediacom and we put a video
up at the top. Now we're not
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a SASS platform, where a service
business, but we have some sort of
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explainer video there and the video opens
up with the pain, the frustration that
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we've identified that we are trying to
solve for, and that's the fact that
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most people, the greater majority of
people, are unhappy in their jobs and
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the you know, the research shows, and the data shows, that we
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spend ninetyzero hours on average at work
in our lives, and so that really
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sucks. Ninetyzero hours of our life
shouldn't suck. And so talking, talking
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about that and then painting the picture
to Hey, if you find content through
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our network of podcasts, here's what
you know work could look like. You
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can own your career, you can
find a new path, you can learn
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from people who have gone ahead of
you, you can learn from people who
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are sharing their expertise in different industries, and so kind of painting that picture.
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I love the quadrant there. That
hadn't quite been clear on my mind,
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that grid that you talked about out
of my I really like that and,
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as you mentioned, there's application for
sales people as well as for marketers
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when it comes to kind of looping
back around. So you've done your discovery.
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You've asked the right questions to uncover
the fear or frustration, the potential
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want or dream. Where do some
salespeople miss the mark in trying to present
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their solution, their product or service
in connecting those dots right like the greatest
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sales deck ever, as it's been
called, from Zora, does a great
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job of this, of painting the
picture of the problem, the Promised Land,
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and then how, we hope you
get there. What are some of
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the ways you see sales people missing
connecting the pain to the promised land and
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inserting themselves into that as the as
the bridge to that promised land, or
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the dream, as you put it? It's a really good question, but
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before I do answer that, I
want to touch base in something that you
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said, which I think is really
important, because you said that like this
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is exactly what you did in your
video, and that's because you're a sales
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person. You do it naturally and
it comes natural to you. When you
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actually lay lay this out and defined
this, like I explain for those that
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doesn't come natural, it really is
helpful and, as you said, it's
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not just for sales, it's for
marketing, but it's also for your product
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and if you if you're building your
product and you're building your features up on
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this, then it's terrific. So, to come back to what you just
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asked, as far as what is
the what is the biggest mistake. Where's
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the biggest drop off that sales people
have with this? It would be if
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they do this and they actually understood
their clients, because that's the biggest drop
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off, as they don't. But
if they did this, I would say
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that it's a being afraid to ask
questions, or or they'll ask a question
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and then they're afraid of silence and
then they don't just shut up. Yes,
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yes, Oh, I'm so glad
you said that. You know,
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one of the greatest sales books that
I've read in recent history. Have listened
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to it twice. We've had Chris
Vass here on the show and it's not
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even a sales book. Never split
the difference. You know. He talks
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about the power of silence, the
power of you know what you call mirroring.
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Yeah, we'd miss our quota and
just simply mirroring those last few words,
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Mr Quota, and letting the silence
hang. That is very tough,
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especially for green sales reps, to
do it just it makes you nervous,
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it makes you what if the conversation
falls flat? But you will be surprised.
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Count Two, three in your head
and let the prospects start to unpack.
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Things and when they say something that
you're like who I have something to
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say about that? I have I
have something there. Don't interrupt them because
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you think you have an opportunity to
pounce. We get way too eager and
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you know, in the best of
times, eagerness from a salesperson is just
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a huge turnoff. Right now,
as people are willing to have conversations,
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but you know the closing conversation might
be kind of delay it if people are
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in kind of wait and see and
they're taking longer to explore options and and
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vet their options and different vendors,
you don't want to be too eager.
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So sorry, I'm getting off on
a tangent there. But wait, you
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said there. I think you're right. So important for salespeople. Adam,
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if anybody listening to this is going
to take one thing away from this conversation,
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you know we've talked about the three
different type of pain points. You've
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given us a great visual I love
visuals to picture both the pain and the
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pleasure that you're trying to uncover the
potentials in the way that your prospects are
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thinking about it. So I love
both of those. But if sales people
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are listening to this or marketers and
you want them to take one thing away
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from this conversation. What would that
be? Today, man, sales doesn't
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come naturally. You have to work
on it and then it will be then
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it will be natural. But doing
these kinds of exercises, and there's lots
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of them out there, but doing
these kinds of exercises, you know,
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may take you an hour or two
hours to really dive into this, but
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the results will be you know,
you can't even count the it's not it's
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off the scale. So it's so, so important to do. Yeah,
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absolutely, I love that. It
will definitely be time well invested. Well,
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if you like this episode, folks, there's a linkedin post I did
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on you know, really how not
to qualify and uncover pain and sell to
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that that I mentioned earlier. Will
Link to that in the show notes.
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We've also had Chris Voss, author
of never split the difference, on the
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show a couple times before. Linked
to that. Definitely some some very tactical
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things, former FBI hostage negotiator that
you can use in sales. Definitely worth
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the listens to check those out.
As speaking of next steps, Adam,
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if anybody listening to this wants to
stay connected with you, reach out,
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follow more of your content, subscribe
your podcast, anything like that. Was
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the best way for them to take
next steps. There sure will. First
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of all, I created like a
short, fifteen minute video to kind of
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walk people through this with all the
visuals. So they want to go to
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my website, which is start up
sales dot ioh and then it's backslash pain
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Pai, and so startup sales studio, backslash pain, you could actually watch
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the video and kind of dive into
this exercise a lot more in depth.
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As you said, I've also got
the podcast start up sales. So it's
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more geared towards like the earlier stage
rather than an established company. But there's
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a lot of like you. I
interview a lot of professionals and leaders around
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the world to get their opinion and
how they construct and build the sales process
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from the beginning. Besides that,
you can find me on Linkedin. Yeah,
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it's, you know, on your
your podcast. I just wanted to
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note, you know, back to
what I mentioned earlier. You know today
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I've been in BB sales for twelve
years, but the last two in an
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early stage company, being the first
sales higher have been vastly different, very
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sorts of different opportunities, Challenges.
It just what it looks like is very
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different. So for anybody who's in
that season right now finds themselves in that
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sort of situation, I would definitely
recommend your podcast because looking at sales specifically
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in that scenario, it is a
little bit different and I've kind of experience
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both. So just when to encourage
people there will link to that video.
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For those who are listening to the
PODCAST. Maybe you saw me moving my
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hands a little bit if you're watching
this on youtube, but that video will
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link to in the show notes.
For those visual learners that want to take
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a next step. Really like that
visual that you broke down for us today,
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Adam well man, this has been
a fantastic conversation. Thank you so
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much for being our guest on the
show today. Thanks, Logan, and
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really appreciate it. Hey, everybody, Logan with sweetfish here. If you're
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a regular listener of BB growth,
you know that I'm one of the cohost
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of this show, but you may
not know that I also head up the
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00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:17.470
sales team here at sweetfish. So
for those of you in sales or sales
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00:20:17.509 --> 00:20:21.269
offs, I wanted to take a
second to share something that's made us insanely
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00:20:21.390 --> 00:20:25.500
more efficient lately. Our team has
been using lead Iq for the past few
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00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:29.980
months, and what used to take
us four hours gathering contact data now takes
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00:20:30.019 --> 00:20:33.099
us only one, or seventy five
percent more efficient. We're able to move
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faster without bound prospecting and organizing our
campaigns is so much easier than before.
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I'd highly suggest you guys check out
lead Iq as well. You can check
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00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:48.690
them out at lead iqcom. That's
Elle, a d iqcom.