Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:09.269 Welcome back to be the growth. I am James Carberry and today I'm talking 2 00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:13.230 with Ian Luck. He's the VP of global marketing at Customer Gage, and 3 00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:17.829 today we're going to be talking about something that we're actually thinking about doing at 4 00:00:17.949 --> 00:00:21.620 sweetfish. So this is something that I am really interested in. I'm going 5 00:00:21.620 --> 00:00:24.820 to be learning a lot from Ian. But today we're going to be talking 6 00:00:24.859 --> 00:00:29.500 about original research. This is something that I've heard my friend Andy Krustydina talk 7 00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:33.380 a lot about, but IAN has been doing this now, I think, 8 00:00:33.420 --> 00:00:36.770 for for three years. And so Ian, how are you doing it in 9 00:00:36.850 --> 00:00:39.409 me? I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for that set up. Let's hope I 10 00:00:39.450 --> 00:00:42.850 can live up to it. Yeah, yeah, so, so we're talking 11 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:49.210 a little bit offline Ian about about original research and just to give listeners a 12 00:00:49.250 --> 00:00:52.560 little bit of context, tell us a little bit about customer gage and talk 13 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:56.719 to us about kind of the path to you guys realizing man, we need 14 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:00.840 to try some original research. Yeah, so customer Gadge is a bit to 15 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:06.109 B Sass application and instead of giving you kind of maybe the boring this is 16 00:01:06.150 --> 00:01:07.750 what we do. Maybe I can lead with kind of who we help, 17 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:12.469 if that makes sense. So if you're the type of person that literally you're 18 00:01:12.510 --> 00:01:17.950 in a position where you have serious anxiety about account retention or one of your 19 00:01:17.950 --> 00:01:22.019 biggest be to be accounts turning, we give you a system that can allow 20 00:01:22.060 --> 00:01:26.180 you to control that turn to the point where you can predict it and manage 21 00:01:26.180 --> 00:01:29.340 it, with a tool set and a play book to help treatise those accounts 22 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:34.890 and maximizer account retention. But not only that, your revenue, so pretension 23 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:38.890 and our growth. So that's really kind of who we help. It's those 24 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.930 people on the frontlines, Middle Management, upper sea level that really get it. 25 00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:47.159 I care about account retention. I think we're seeing in sand amount of 26 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:51.599 demand for it right now due to their obviously the unfortunate global situation, people 27 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:56.719 are realizing finally that customer basis and accompasses are important. So that's that's really 28 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:00.079 kind of who we're helping. But we're really about retention or really about revenue 29 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:06.590 growth and managing that kind of experience for large to be clients. I love 30 00:02:06.670 --> 00:02:09.629 it. So so talk to us about for those. I guess let's back 31 00:02:09.669 --> 00:02:14.430 up a little bit and talk for those that aren't familiar with what we're even 32 00:02:14.469 --> 00:02:17.379 talking about. When we say original research. You can like define it at 33 00:02:17.379 --> 00:02:23.460 a high level and then talk to us about and a what what led customer 34 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:27.979 gage to pursuing original research, as you know, as a part of the 35 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:30.650 content marketing mix? Yeah, great questions. So original research, in my 36 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:35.689 opinion, is basically conducting some sort of a study on your own or in 37 00:02:35.689 --> 00:02:38.490 conjunction with the third party you have. Essentially, you start off with the 38 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:44.599 hypothesis about a marketplace or things like that, and then you basically detail or 39 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:49.199 research process within a certain report and then you kind of interpret the results and 40 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:53.479 spit it out and suggest implications or suggest where you think a market is going. 41 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.599 So that's kind of original research has you got to do yourself and you 42 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.550 got to have kind of a hypothesis that you'd then suggest some sort of implication 43 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:05.069 as a result of the research that you've conducted. So so for you guys 44 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:08.150 at Customer Gage in what was it like? What were you guys trying to 45 00:03:08.469 --> 00:03:13.620 was there particular problem you guys were trying to solve or like, what were 46 00:03:13.659 --> 00:03:16.219 you guys trying to accomplish with with the original research that you guys have now 47 00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:20.180 been doing for three years? Yeah, and that's that's why it's kind of 48 00:03:20.340 --> 00:03:23.580 really ironic because, as I mentioned before, everybody's really taking this whole account 49 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:28.569 retention piece and customer retention piece serious right now, but we've been shouting about 50 00:03:28.569 --> 00:03:30.969 this for three and a half four years. So in a lot of the 51 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:34.530 prospects that came in through the door, we would talk to them, we 52 00:03:34.689 --> 00:03:38.289 talk to our customers, and I think the main theme that we kept hearing 53 00:03:38.330 --> 00:03:40.370 those people don't really know how to manage retention then or there's a lot of 54 00:03:40.409 --> 00:03:46.439 confusion, there's a lot of uncertainty in the marketplace where people think that this 55 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:49.319 is the right way to do it, and what we've seen time and time 56 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.520 again are these programs fail and they feel for a lot of different reasons, 57 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:57.349 and we wanted to set out to basically say, all right, this is 58 00:03:57.430 --> 00:04:00.110 what the current state of the market is, this is why we think that 59 00:04:00.270 --> 00:04:02.909 these programs are failing, and then we wanted to provide some sort of a 60 00:04:02.990 --> 00:04:06.110 solution to say, you know what, based off our researcher should really be 61 00:04:06.189 --> 00:04:09.990 focusing on this, this and this. So we wanted to provide that kind 62 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:14.740 of future promised land type state based off of the research that we've conducted and 63 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:17.779 that's that's really what we set out to do is on earth kind of some 64 00:04:18.019 --> 00:04:24.850 insights behind this customer and account market place and provide some and clarity on why 65 00:04:24.889 --> 00:04:28.610 are these programs failing? Number One. Number two, how can you improve 66 00:04:28.649 --> 00:04:30.009 your program so it doesn't fail? Number three is like how do you grow 67 00:04:30.050 --> 00:04:32.449 it? That's really what, I think, at the end of the day, 68 00:04:32.970 --> 00:04:36.370 we're trying to do, and a lot of these other companies are trying 69 00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:39.839 to do, is it's not just you want to just measure feedback. You 70 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:41.959 don't want to just hear what the customers have to say, you want to 71 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.120 take it applied to your business, improve it and grow at a faster rate. 72 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.920 Yes, not focused on that one final piece, you're going to fail. 73 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.079 I mean, I hate to say it be about blood, but like, 74 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:55.990 if you're not really focused on using that feedback to grow, your program 75 00:04:56.029 --> 00:04:58.589 will fail. And that's really what our research. Not to get ahead of 76 00:04:58.589 --> 00:05:00.629 myself, but that's what our research kind of uncovered and we've provided, you 77 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:06.660 know, very prescriptive guidance over how to avoid that. But that's that's really 78 00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:10.019 what we set out to solve. Is like what's the current state of the 79 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:13.540 market? And you know, what can companies do to avoid failure and really 80 00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:15.660 maximized growth? I love it. And so what have been some things that 81 00:05:15.699 --> 00:05:19.779 you've realized? You know now doing this, you know three, three times 82 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:23.810 year over, you know, year after year. You obviously wouldn't keep doing 83 00:05:23.850 --> 00:05:28.610 it if if it wasn't accomplishing the goals that you wanted to accomplish with it. 84 00:05:29.009 --> 00:05:32.370 What have you realized about the power of original research? Yeah, so, 85 00:05:33.129 --> 00:05:36.360 first off, as I'm from a pure marketing standpoint, right, it's 86 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:41.639 powerful because not too many people do it and and I think that's an underrated 87 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:45.160 thing. I think you hear that cliche term, you should zig when everybody's 88 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.439 eggs and marketing. I do kind of prescribe to that. You have to 89 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.750 stand out in some way, shape or form in order to be heard, 90 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:53.910 especially in our market. And again, I'm going to keep speaking from like 91 00:05:54.029 --> 00:05:55.949 my point of view, through my Lens, because that's what I have. 92 00:05:56.589 --> 00:06:00.709 But our two biggest competitors, or qualtrix and Medallia cultures, got brought out 93 00:06:00.790 --> 00:06:04.060 by sap for I think five billion dollars with a B and Medallia just went 94 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:06.220 public I think a year ago, or a little bit less than the year 95 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:10.939 ago. So we are up against some pretty heavy hitters. Right. So 96 00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:14.579 when I first approached this, you know, how do we stand out? 97 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:18.009 How do we at least get parody on the brand stand the brand stage with 98 00:06:18.129 --> 00:06:25.329 these two companies? Original research was kind of our ultimate conclusion because if you 99 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:30.730 provide original research that industry will consume, it's valuable and if it's done properly, 100 00:06:30.850 --> 00:06:33.319 it adds value. And I think not to go in a little bit 101 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:38.040 of a rnt here, but thought leadership and like these types of research things. 102 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:42.560 They're hard to do and I think what companies fall into the trap up 103 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:48.310 doing is getting the fresh out of college marketing person to quote unquote, create 104 00:06:48.389 --> 00:06:53.790 thought leadership and it just it doesn't go so well. It's very generally written, 105 00:06:53.790 --> 00:06:56.670 that has a very click bitty title and it produces a thousand mqls. 106 00:06:56.709 --> 00:06:59.230 So they think they're on the right track. Right. I'm telling you, 107 00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:01.579 anybody can do that. You can produce a thousand MQ ALS by getting a 108 00:07:01.620 --> 00:07:05.259 super click bitty ebook just going to town. But what I think the difference 109 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:10.579 maker is is the value that you create for the end user or the prospect 110 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:14.899 of the customer, and that that is really what differentiates original research versus some 111 00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:16.610 of the other thought leadership pieces, because the value is there if you do 112 00:07:16.730 --> 00:07:21.490 it properly and people remember that feeling. And I would I would imagine, 113 00:07:21.610 --> 00:07:27.329 just hearing you talk about this in that you know you're you're talking about, 114 00:07:28.009 --> 00:07:30.639 you know, a lot of top of the funnel. You, like a 115 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:32.279 lot of people, try to do kind of a cheap inversion of this and 116 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:35.439 yeah, you know, trying to get a thousand and qls and do that 117 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.319 with some clip baby headlines and facebook ads against, you know, an Ebook. 118 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:46.829 But because it because original research has so much depth and and there's there's 119 00:07:46.069 --> 00:07:50.110 real tangible value inside the resource that you create when you do it right. 120 00:07:50.709 --> 00:07:56.230 I would imagine that the original you can use the original research in a bunch 121 00:07:56.269 --> 00:07:59.540 of different ways, kind of throughout the funnel. How are you guys? 122 00:07:59.899 --> 00:08:01.180 Like I would imagine you're using it a lot on top of the funnel, 123 00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:05.579 but are you using it through, you know, mid funnel, bottom of 124 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:13.050 the funnel as well? Oh Man, it's spills into everything. So I 125 00:08:13.170 --> 00:08:15.170 can I don't know where to star, man, because there's so much that 126 00:08:15.329 --> 00:08:18.129 you can do with that. So it really does, especially if you do 127 00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:20.569 it properly. Right. So I just want to harp on this one thing 128 00:08:20.649 --> 00:08:22.689 real quick before we dive into kind of how we use it. The purpose 129 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:26.279 of the research should be to define the currents to kind of like basic gap 130 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:31.439 marking, the right current state, and then what we suggest do the future 131 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.360 state. And then the goal of the company from a brand standpoint is to 132 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:37.120 be kind of bridge positioning. So where the bridge that gets you from the 133 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:41.149 current to the future state. So that's and if you do it properly, 134 00:08:41.269 --> 00:08:48.230 that research will inform everything from your website to your positioning to your collateral that 135 00:08:48.309 --> 00:08:50.789 you send the sales that I mean literally big into the contract we send. 136 00:08:50.870 --> 00:08:56.299 I mean we still have almost every piece of collateral has some piece of this 137 00:08:56.379 --> 00:09:01.740 original research in it. So keep being example, like we found that if 138 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:05.460 you don't close the loop three different levels, you actually end up turning a 139 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:09.700 percentage. So closing the loop is how you actually reduce churn and grow. 140 00:09:09.289 --> 00:09:11.929 So let's step one. There's like a bunch of different stats, but that's 141 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:13.970 a big one. We found that if you're not actually closing the loop, 142 00:09:15.169 --> 00:09:18.450 you're churning every year, rather you realize it or not. So we built 143 00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:24.120 an entire framework around this, this original research. Right, it's called framework, 144 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.039 measure, act, grow. So a measure is like measuring this core 145 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.080 acting as closing the loop. Growing is like up cell, Cross cell, 146 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.919 referral, growth, things like that. So we take that framework and it's 147 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.669 built into our top of the funnel awareness type of content. You know, 148 00:09:37.750 --> 00:09:41.470 you should measure this, you should close the loop, Blah Blah Blah, 149 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:43.590 like very topic awareness. And then our consideration level content. You know, 150 00:09:43.669 --> 00:09:48.950 where they're considering a product, we basically serve up things like a buyers guide 151 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:52.139 where this is how you buy software, this is what you should look for 152 00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:56.059 if you need software, and conjunction with a framework to measure your program because 153 00:09:56.059 --> 00:09:58.179 if you don't, it's going to fail, because if you're not folks on 154 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:01.419 right things, it's not going to work out for you. And then at 155 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:05.059 the bottom of the funnel it's clearly like customer support. Right. So that 156 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:09.570 same framework we pitch at the very top and middle is used in our qbrs 157 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:13.370 for our customers in our count bus is, it's used in collateral we send 158 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:16.330 them. It's all framed or on that framework that is based off of our 159 00:10:16.330 --> 00:10:20.799 original research. So it's so important and it literally is everywhere. We've taken 160 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:24.679 the information, we've doubt from this, the research, and we've done web 161 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:28.480 in ours. We've done physical events literally for two hundred fifty people in Boston, 162 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:33.320 sit in the Australia, Amsterdam, twice, Silicon Valley. We've done 163 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.789 events and almost every major metropolitan area pushing this research in conjunction with thought leaders 164 00:10:37.830 --> 00:10:43.190 from forest or gardener, Microsoft, Amazon, Web Service. It's packnging are 165 00:10:43.309 --> 00:10:48.549 all around this major concept of growth, growth, growth, pretension. It's 166 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:56.059 the way to go and we basically package all in this one major conference that 167 00:10:56.139 --> 00:11:00.500 we did and it's super compelling. If you get people in a room and 168 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:07.850 you support the position of the research with outside opinions and or approaches. It's 169 00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:13.450 baffling to me how persatile something like this can be, and I would imagine 170 00:11:13.690 --> 00:11:16.610 you know it's you. You alluded to it earlier. You don't want it. 171 00:11:16.690 --> 00:11:18.759 This isn't something you want to stick at twenty one year, all the 172 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.639 intern on, because it needs to be because it is going to have such 173 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.159 a massive impact on so many other things you do, I mean, but 174 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.200 building an entire event around the research, I think it's brilliant and I have 175 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:33.909 never heard anybody talk about doing that, but it makes so much sense. 176 00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:37.590 So I want to start getting into the how did you guys have obviously been 177 00:11:37.669 --> 00:11:41.149 doing this year over year for three years now. How how should a company 178 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:46.899 first decide? Or, and just speaking from your own experience, how did 179 00:11:46.940 --> 00:11:52.179 you guys decide what you actually wanted to research? Yeah, so again it 180 00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:54.059 kind of goes back to your marker, right, you can't. You do 181 00:11:54.220 --> 00:11:56.740 have to talk to people. You have to talk to prospects, your customers, 182 00:11:56.779 --> 00:12:01.100 and what are they struggling with? What are why are things failing? 183 00:12:01.220 --> 00:12:05.210 So, like, what's the pain? Right? And so really define your 184 00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:07.649 purpose, I think is the first step. Is, what are you going 185 00:12:07.690 --> 00:12:13.210 to actually provide clarity to? So is it the current market and it's just 186 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:16.720 it's really not set up to be successful because of XYZ. You need to 187 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.320 uncover what those reasons are and then provide a solution, or at least insights 188 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.519 on how people can actually get from point at the point B or current state 189 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.639 the future states are going. It goes back to that gap marketing principle. 190 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.629 Yeah, bridge positioning. So I would recommend that if anybody's starting this off, 191 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:33.389 really think about that hard. Like what do you think the future state 192 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:37.830 looks like, look at the research that your you want to collect and like 193 00:12:37.909 --> 00:12:41.350 what would actually support that? What should you ask for questions? I think 194 00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:43.710 it really does come down to define your purpose. What do you think is 195 00:12:45.500 --> 00:12:48.419 what you want to present to the market? Is really what it comes down 196 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:50.779 to. And so from there, once once you've determined like, okay, 197 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:56.340 this is the this is the future state, this is the topic that we 198 00:12:56.419 --> 00:13:01.289 are going to do research on, I would imagine step two is you've got 199 00:13:01.330 --> 00:13:05.169 to figure out what questions are you going to ask, right or am I 200 00:13:05.250 --> 00:13:09.129 missing a step there now? So it's basically, yeah, you figure out 201 00:13:09.129 --> 00:13:11.370 what questions you want to ask, and then there's a couple like I wouldn't 202 00:13:11.370 --> 00:13:15.919 say advanced steps, but it's there are things that you can do to kind 203 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.120 of hack this whole process, and two of them, right off the top 204 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:20.559 of my head, is one, pick a data partner. So like, 205 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.240 for example, I'm just thinking about from like a start up, stamp by 206 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.149 right, because I like the purpose we did this for was to provide clear 207 00:13:28.190 --> 00:13:31.149 to the market but also really up level our brand, right, so against 208 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:35.029 Paul tricks and Madia things like that. So if you're a startup that you 209 00:13:35.149 --> 00:13:41.139 need to increase your visibility align your brand with other brands that have the elevated 210 00:13:41.179 --> 00:13:46.500 profile. So for us, and we were we wanted to do two things. 211 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:50.659 Elevate our profile but provide legitimacy to the data because we weren't that big 212 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:54.019 of a name in the US at that point. So what we wanted to 213 00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:58.409 make sure is that the Dida we did present wasn't really questioned or challenge because 214 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:01.649 it was done properly and things like that. So we got MIT on board. 215 00:14:01.769 --> 00:14:05.129 Yeah, so we got MIT sloane. They partnered up with us, 216 00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:09.690 they added a couple questions in the mix. You had a really great relationship 217 00:14:09.690 --> 00:14:11.919 with them and not just instantly. was like all right, these guys are 218 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.120 with MIT, this is pretty legitimate. They're doing the data analysis properly. 219 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.879 We had a good sample to work from. So I pick a data providers. 220 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.190 Is the first piece. If you can harvard, MIT, good educational 221 00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:31.350 organization or institutions or even other companies. So that's a big thing and I 222 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:33.309 always try to up level right. Don't try to go from here to here 223 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:37.389 level. Try to go one step above. Get the the access to the 224 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:46.659 higher profile for today's gross story. We're talking about all state. All stay 225 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:52.580 offers best in class products and services that provide innovative protection and retirement solutions to 226 00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:58.009 millions of households nationwide. 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Is that something company should be expecting to like to pay for that 240 00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:04.440 partnership, or are you basically saying, Hey, we're going to be promoting 241 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:10.519 this riginal research, you know, through our teeth, basically for the rest 242 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.720 of the year and in exchange for you guys partnering on this, we're going 243 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.629 to give you your associated with it. So that's like, are you pitching 244 00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:22.590 them on the value of the exposure they're going to get by being part of 245 00:16:22.629 --> 00:16:25.669 the researcher? Are you paying them to be a part of it? Never 246 00:16:25.830 --> 00:16:30.909 pay for it? So these, especially educational organizations, their Star for dinner, 247 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:34.259 right. So they are constantly researching in the background, especially scholarly ones 248 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:38.580 like I might and and Harvard. They're always on the lookout for new studies, 249 00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:42.340 new data sets. So approach them exactly what you said. We're going 250 00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.259 to promote the crap out of it. But also on their end, they 251 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:49.169 get that add questions in so they get the data and I think we also 252 00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:52.649 got a little bit of benefit from their audience. So it was very there's 253 00:16:52.809 --> 00:16:57.129 it's based on reciprocity, right, so it's not necessarily a hundred percent benefits 254 00:16:57.210 --> 00:17:00.090 us. They got a lot out of it. We got a lot out 255 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:02.639 of it. I think they're really any partnership and this world you really do 256 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:06.799 need the approach from that standpoint of mutual value. But yeah, don't ever 257 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.920 pay for it. I think these guys are definitely starving for data. So 258 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:12.759 I think it's a lot easier than most people think. I just think the 259 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:17.670 issue is most people don't think to do it when it's super valuable. Yeah, 260 00:17:17.950 --> 00:17:21.869 so, once you've got your data partner and you've nailed down the questions 261 00:17:21.910 --> 00:17:25.789 that you're going to ask should be, how many questions do you guys typically 262 00:17:25.789 --> 00:17:27.150 ask? Is this, you know, ten to fifteen? Is it five, 263 00:17:27.150 --> 00:17:30.299 Thousan two hundred and sixty? How many? How many questions were you 264 00:17:30.339 --> 00:17:34.460 guys asking whenever you initially started doing your research? Are you at serves great 265 00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:37.740 questions. So depends on the partner we pick. So, like I might, 266 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:41.220 you wanted to I think, ten questions. So I was a bit 267 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:42.299 of a longer survey. I think at the end of the day we had 268 00:17:42.380 --> 00:17:47.529 forty questions. Okay, so it's pretty healthy. Right. So if, 269 00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:49.490 and I know when I say that out loud, everybody on the other ends 270 00:17:49.529 --> 00:17:52.329 like, Holy Crap, I would never take a forty question survey, right, 271 00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:59.079 because I'm there. Yeah. So again, reciprocity is a huge theme 272 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.759 and this type of marketing. So you have to give them something that they 273 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:07.160 want to make them suffer through a forty question survey. And the way we 274 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:10.799 got around that, or at least provided die to the end user, is 275 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:15.390 a couple ways. We promised exclusive access earlier than the general public to the 276 00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:18.990 report. Right, so you can basically say hey, if you take this, 277 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:22.269 we're going to give you access to it before pretty much the general public, 278 00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:26.349 which is, you know, okay, maybe right. But I think 279 00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:29.460 the big one what we did, which is another one of those hacks that 280 00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:32.660 I would bring up as we had a program assessment tied to the questions. 281 00:18:33.259 --> 00:18:37.339 So these forty questions, when you answer it, the promise is, if 282 00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:44.009 you answer it, we will spit out immediately, a comprehensive assessment of your 283 00:18:44.089 --> 00:18:48.170 program. So we're asking them specific questions about an experience program they have on 284 00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:49.970 the BDB side and what they're doing, what they're attention it is, do 285 00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:52.809 the close the loop that they have, executive sponsorship, all of these like 286 00:18:52.930 --> 00:19:00.440 detailed questions. So the trick was provide an assessment that spits out benchmarking data. 287 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:03.359 It gives them a score. Again, we had it in that framework 288 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.519 of foundations, Measure Act Crow. So each section that had an individual score, 289 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.430 we give recommendations based off of their score versus the benchmarks. So we 290 00:19:11.589 --> 00:19:17.910 gave like a really detailed, almost like Consultative Assessment Program pdf at the end 291 00:19:17.950 --> 00:19:19.190 of it. So there was a good amount of value for these people that 292 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:25.299 took it. Wow, and and how many did you it was that bag 293 00:19:25.420 --> 00:19:27.980 into the technology that you used to run the survey. So it was an 294 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:32.339 instant thing, or was that something you gave them, you know, a 295 00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:36.339 few weeks after they finished taking the survey? It's instant. Yeah, so 296 00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:40.490 I think that's also key rat too, especially. I don't know if anybody's 297 00:19:40.490 --> 00:19:42.769 ever taking along survey, but it's it's tiring. So like you want to 298 00:19:42.890 --> 00:19:47.890 really provide that instant gratification. I think we're a world of instant gratification. 299 00:19:48.009 --> 00:19:51.410 No surprised at this point, but maybe a little bit less now with everything 300 00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:55.519 going on, but I still think people do appreciate if you put in the 301 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:57.799 effort, like getting that immediate return on investment. So we do make it 302 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.079 immediate and there are software tools that do that out there. So I don't 303 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.269 want to plug any of them, including CG, but you can find companies 304 00:20:07.269 --> 00:20:10.670 and software that will do that for you. Got It awesome. So, 305 00:20:11.269 --> 00:20:14.710 but but just you know, I can, I can advocate for it on 306 00:20:14.990 --> 00:20:18.269 your end. Bike I would imagine you guys used customer gage to do that 307 00:20:18.390 --> 00:20:22.700 for yourself, right, we do awesome. So so that that there's obviously 308 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:25.900 alternatives. You can go to GE check out other, you know, other 309 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:30.819 other products. But you know, makes total says that that the N and 310 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:33.140 this team use their own product for this and and like I would have never 311 00:20:33.259 --> 00:20:38.329 thought about the idea of giving the person that takes the survey so much value 312 00:20:40.210 --> 00:20:44.210 in in allowing them in real time to see, like, how their answers 313 00:20:44.329 --> 00:20:51.000 really compared to the thinking data that you're from all these people. So makes 314 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.160 makes a lot of sense. The other major benefit that I don't think a 315 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:56.599 ton of people talk about on the marketing side is when these people are taking 316 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.279 that survey, you want to talk to your ICP, right, your ideal 317 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:06.190 customer profile. Yes, and if they answer forty questions about their program and 318 00:21:06.309 --> 00:21:10.509 what they're doing, what they're operating, you're basically skipping the sales discovery phase. 319 00:21:11.069 --> 00:21:14.509 Think about that for a second. So instead of sales jumping on an 320 00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:15.869 hour call saying all right, what do you do here? What's going on? 321 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:21.059 How can I help? What's the pain, you're spitting out a forty 322 00:21:21.819 --> 00:21:27.339 question assessment or complete, comprehensive overview of a potential ISP prospect to a sales 323 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:32.420 are up. But then can review it in detail now everything about your customer 324 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:37.210 or potential customer, then have a very informed conversation with them about how they 325 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:41.529 can help improve their program or address their pens. That's incredible. Did you 326 00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:45.250 did you as the marketing on the marketing side of the house? Did you 327 00:21:47.009 --> 00:21:49.079 guys have to do anything around like, Hey, here are some scripts that 328 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.200 you could use based on certain responses on the survey, or did you just 329 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.720 send it over to the sales team and say hey, look, that'll look 330 00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:02.069 through each of the respondents that they responded to our survey and kind of go 331 00:22:02.230 --> 00:22:06.349 out at yourself, or did the marketing resource then with anything? Yeah, 332 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:07.549 great question. I mean it would be so much easier if you just said 333 00:22:07.549 --> 00:22:11.069 all right, here you go. But I'm a huge believer in internal marketing, 334 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:15.940 specifically with sales and getting them excited about something. So we made a 335 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:22.019 big launch basically around the the concept or as. So we would not only 336 00:22:22.180 --> 00:22:25.660 educate them through training, but we would give them. We have integrated indoor 337 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:29.740 crm. We would basically give it to them, the information. We would 338 00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:32.690 train them how to use it. We set up scripts for them, you 339 00:22:32.809 --> 00:22:36.410 know email. We would give them ten or fifteen emails that they could send 340 00:22:36.450 --> 00:22:41.049 out to follow up, try to book a meeting. Again, it's not 341 00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:44.759 just about original research, adding value share. But at the end of the 342 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.480 day the whole point of this exercise is to grow faster as a company and 343 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.720 lend more sales. So why not try to do both the same time? 344 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.759 So yeah, I think we definitely spent a ton of time with sales getting 345 00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:59.470 that right. So we retrain them, we give them all of the information 346 00:22:59.549 --> 00:23:02.670 we could. Yeah, for sure. And so how many responses were you 347 00:23:02.750 --> 00:23:06.309 all looking to get? Like what what is what, I guess, do 348 00:23:06.349 --> 00:23:11.470 you need to have for statistical relevance? Yeah, so depends on the data 349 00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:14.660 set, but we try to shoot for at least a thousand. But it's 350 00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:17.460 pretty much I would say, I don't want to say it's the minimum, 351 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:19.700 but that's that's a good number to shoot for. Five hundred is amazing, 352 00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:25.019 but about a thousand you can usually get some significant and certain certain things. 353 00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:29.970 And where did you guys source those? Is it obviously your own email list, 354 00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:34.049 but we're you guys buying lists or using any any services to try to 355 00:23:34.089 --> 00:23:37.650 get in front of to get in front of people that Master Your Icep? 356 00:23:38.650 --> 00:23:42.680 No. So we have a good email list. So we've we've been fortunate 357 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:47.000 enough at Customer Gidge we've kind of taken a stage positioning in the market place 358 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:49.240 where we've always educated. So that like the fashion right now is to add 359 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.880 add value, value right. We've been doing that for years. If you 360 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.950 look at our website, our content, we have a massive war chest of 361 00:23:56.509 --> 00:24:00.029 just things we've been giving away for four years. So we have a pretty 362 00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:03.789 solid email base. Or linkedin following is about thirteenzero people, which is good 363 00:24:03.789 --> 00:24:06.950 for company our size. Because of that exact reason, I think we've been 364 00:24:06.990 --> 00:24:11.099 giving away a ton of value. So we loverage our email base pretty significantly. 365 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:15.460 You didn't spend any money on paid distribution. I know somebody, some 366 00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:18.579 people listening to this, would be like that's crazy, but again, think 367 00:24:18.619 --> 00:24:21.740 about where we were as a company three four years ago, we were up 368 00:24:21.740 --> 00:24:26.569 against two massive companies that have a huge war chest of budget and we were 369 00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:29.490 trying to punch above our weight class. So we're trying to minimize cost and 370 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:32.690 get the maximum and back. So we leverage what we had, which was 371 00:24:32.730 --> 00:24:36.690 our email list. We leverage a lot of us CEO. So just posting 372 00:24:36.730 --> 00:24:40.519 blogs and things like that. We promoted on social sales. Would do you 373 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:44.799 outreach. So that's another piece I want to touch on. Is Like your 374 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.160 pre marketing for this report that you're going to produce as a result of this 375 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.759 research. Is Getting people to take the service. So, Hey, we're 376 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:55.789 doing the survey. This is kind of what we offer if you do take 377 00:24:55.829 --> 00:24:57.230 it, this is kind of what we're thinking will produce at the end of 378 00:24:57.230 --> 00:25:00.710 it. This is your pre marketing. So not only does it get people 379 00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:03.670 to take the survey on like social media, sales is outreaching, on in 380 00:25:03.789 --> 00:25:07.140 mail, whatever it is, but people that creates that awareness in that prospect 381 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:11.339 that these guys will have a report probably in six months time. So not 382 00:25:11.420 --> 00:25:14.420 only you're trying to get them to take the survey up, but you're planning 383 00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:17.099 that stead and saying you can circle back to that contact when you have the 384 00:25:17.140 --> 00:25:18.140 report and say hey, you know, I know you didn't take it, 385 00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:22.009 or maybe you did take it. Thank you so much. Here's the report. 386 00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:25.569 So it creates that pre launch, pre marketing kind of feel to it 387 00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:30.089 if you do campaign, an average campaign around it. Love. Yeah, 388 00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:33.650 what did the process look like once you got your respondents? I guess who 389 00:25:33.769 --> 00:25:37.799 from your team went through then, or was it? Was it your data 390 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.880 partner that went through and actually pulled out insights from the collection of the data? 391 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:45.640 So, like it based on all of the responses we got from these 392 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:51.430 five questions. These are the two or three insights that we pull here. 393 00:25:51.589 --> 00:25:53.589 Like who did that? Was that MT or was that you guys? Yeah, 394 00:25:53.670 --> 00:25:56.509 good question again. So I might that there did us. So they 395 00:25:56.549 --> 00:26:00.150 had those questions, they added in. So might took their dad and did 396 00:26:00.309 --> 00:26:03.339 a bunch of analysis on that and then we did our own analysis with MT's 397 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:07.220 approval. So basically we did the first cut of our data, pass it 398 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:10.099 over to mt for like a check and basically, does this look sound? 399 00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:12.539 Yes, yes, great, boom. We get their approval on the actual 400 00:26:12.619 --> 00:26:17.140 Dida methodology and the approach and then we basically ran with the separate data sets 401 00:26:17.140 --> 00:26:21.809 might actually produced, but I think is the definitive book on digital transformation. 402 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:26.089 Stephanie Warner was our partner. Check it out on Amazon with did extremely well 403 00:26:26.130 --> 00:26:30.490 as a best seller and it is literally the framework for digital transformation for companies. 404 00:26:30.849 --> 00:26:33.599 Super relevant right now. Are Dad. It was a huge part of 405 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.400 that book, which is really kind of a proud moment for our company as 406 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.119 well. So, yeah, I think both companies do a little bit of 407 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:45.480 Dida work, but I think the ultimate goal is to have both companies work 408 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:51.509 collaboratively to approve it and verify it's accuracy and methodology. And let's say you 409 00:26:51.630 --> 00:26:56.750 don't have a data partner. Is this something that would would probably you know 410 00:26:56.869 --> 00:27:00.630 and and say it's a you know, a smaller company. Would this be 411 00:27:00.789 --> 00:27:03.940 something that would you say, like somebody in your role, like the VP 412 00:27:03.019 --> 00:27:07.299 of marketing? Could it be a one person job to go in and collect, 413 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:11.740 you know, look at all these responses and try to figure out like, 414 00:27:11.779 --> 00:27:15.140 okay, what story is this data telling, or does this need to 415 00:27:15.220 --> 00:27:18.369 be more of a group like you need to have multiple people on your executive 416 00:27:18.369 --> 00:27:22.049 team looking at this if you don't have a data partner to help you on 417 00:27:22.170 --> 00:27:26.210 that side. Makes sense anytime you mention excel around a marketer, we kind 418 00:27:26.210 --> 00:27:30.240 of get a little crazier at yeah, now, I'm just kidding. That's 419 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.640 definitely not the case anymore. Maybe maybe a hundred years ago. But so 420 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.200 you have to be comfortable with it. So we have obviously like an analyst 421 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.200 in house that helps us slicingdse todd a, our CEO, Adam, is 422 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.269 extremely talented on did as well with it as well. So he did a 423 00:27:45.309 --> 00:27:48.069 lot of the work as well and kind of just slice and you looking for 424 00:27:48.150 --> 00:27:52.109 significance and again we passed it over to mt for like final check to make 425 00:27:52.109 --> 00:27:56.990 sure everything looks proper. But yeah, it's important to have somebody that's very 426 00:27:56.029 --> 00:28:00.740 good with data and I think the key is connecting that person with the strategic 427 00:28:00.819 --> 00:28:04.380 arm of the business. Right. So myself again Adam, the CEO, 428 00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:07.460 like what's the story we're trying to tell here? And then we start there. 429 00:28:07.700 --> 00:28:10.980 You try to figure out what the again, what's the purpose of the 430 00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:14.009 the report? We want to this is our hypothesis, this is what we're 431 00:28:14.009 --> 00:28:15.809 trying to prove, and then we look through the data to see if that 432 00:28:15.930 --> 00:28:21.490 did a supports that hypothesis. So you do need kind of a nice collaboration 433 00:28:21.529 --> 00:28:26.329 between the data arm and the strategy arm of a business to get this up 434 00:28:26.369 --> 00:28:29.319 and running. But I think, to be honest, in most business if 435 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.319 that could be the same person, if there's a super talented individual, I 436 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.200 will fully admit I am not that person. I can help out on the 437 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.519 strategy side. I think when I gets into sell analysis I could do some 438 00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:42.630 basic damage, but I'm going to rely on the professionals there. Got It. 439 00:28:42.869 --> 00:28:47.349 And then I want to I want to close this out by going back 440 00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:51.150 to something we talked at the beginning, which is how just walking through some 441 00:28:51.309 --> 00:28:53.029 of the ways that you guys have been able to slice and dice this night 442 00:28:53.829 --> 00:28:57.380 and and use it all throughout your funnel. You Yeah, you did the 443 00:28:57.460 --> 00:29:00.059 event around it, but talk to us in about some other things that you 444 00:29:00.099 --> 00:29:03.500 guys have been able to do with this data year over year. Yeah, 445 00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:07.420 so it really just come down to you. Like I know the kind of 446 00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:11.769 popular thing on Linkedin right now is is podcasts, and you guys are crushing 447 00:29:11.809 --> 00:29:15.890 the podcast game. So congrats on that. Thank you. But it's and 448 00:29:15.569 --> 00:29:19.490 what everybody realizes about podcasts. It's a brilliant way to repackage content right Yep, 449 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:22.609 we have the video, you have the audio clips, you have the 450 00:29:22.650 --> 00:29:25.279 transcript. You can put into a block. This is the same thing, 451 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:27.000 I think, maybe without the video piece. But what you do is you 452 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.839 take the insights and you spill that out into we did physical events, webinars, 453 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:38.470 we did guest posts on major publications, we did press outreach. We 454 00:29:38.509 --> 00:29:42.549 got into Forbes, INC magazine, Ad Week business insider seeking off a tech 455 00:29:42.589 --> 00:29:45.269 crunch. I'm going to drop some names, but I mean that's the power 456 00:29:45.309 --> 00:29:49.069 of being the original piece of research. Right as you literally get out in 457 00:29:49.150 --> 00:29:53.180 front of this thing, you give all these news snippets from your research and 458 00:29:53.259 --> 00:29:56.460 you push it out. And People Are Dying for this type of stuff because 459 00:29:56.460 --> 00:30:00.019 they want to have an opinion on a marker where markets going. They want 460 00:30:00.019 --> 00:30:03.740 to be the company or the publication that says this is where we think the 461 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.059 markets going. Provide them with the ammunition to do that. Get your name 462 00:30:07.099 --> 00:30:11.250 in the press. That was a huge benefit for us and I think paid 463 00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:15.450 distribution to you can put it, put it through PPC Webinars, you can 464 00:30:15.490 --> 00:30:17.930 break it up into a million different books. I mean, like I said, 465 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:22.200 this is literally fueled our marketing for the last three years just these insights. 466 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:26.119 We just repossession our company around it. I mean, he'll talk about 467 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.559 value. Man, we figured out what the market needed and was like, 468 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:30.759 all right, this is what we're going to sell. I mean, come 469 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.519 on, it doesn't get better than that. It really doesn't get better. 470 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:38.509 It's actually driving, driving the product itself based on yeah, it's you're getting 471 00:30:38.869 --> 00:30:44.630 makes so much sense. Yeah, and this has been incredible. If our 472 00:30:44.670 --> 00:30:48.269 listeners had to walk away with one thing, what would you want them to 473 00:30:48.309 --> 00:30:52.740 walk away with after hearing this episode? It's hard. It's hard, but 474 00:30:52.819 --> 00:30:56.579 it's worth it. Don't be afraid of it. I think it's worth it 475 00:30:56.700 --> 00:30:59.220 because not too many people are doing it. I think buzz UMO says it's 476 00:30:59.259 --> 00:31:03.019 lost than fifty percent. So that's an opportunity to right. So that is 477 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:06.009 an opportunity to stand out in the crowd. It's hard, but it's worth 478 00:31:06.049 --> 00:31:08.329 a making a piece of your keystone content strategy. I love it. And 479 00:31:08.569 --> 00:31:11.490 how can folks listening to this? They connected with you? Yeah, I'm 480 00:31:11.529 --> 00:31:14.809 on Linkedin a lot. I try to post every day, so hit me 481 00:31:14.849 --> 00:31:18.599 up on Linkedin. Ian Luck. I usk like good luck, and yeah, 482 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:21.000 I love to connect. Awesome. Thank you so much. And I 483 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:26.200 really appreciate your time. Thanks, James. For the longest time I was 484 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:30.400 asking people to leave a review of BB growth in apple podcasts, but I 485 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:36.349 realize that was kind of stupid, because leaving a review is way harder than 486 00:31:36.470 --> 00:31:40.390 just leaving a simple rating. So I'm changing my tune a bit. Instead 487 00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:42.029 of asking you to leave a review, I'm just going to ask you to 488 00:31:42.109 --> 00:31:47.460 go to bb growth and apple podcasts, scroll down until you see the ratings 489 00:31:47.539 --> 00:31:51.019 and review section and just tap the number of stars you want to give us. 490 00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:55.500 No review necessary, super easy and I promise it will help us out 491 00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:59.180 a ton. If you want to copy on my book content base networking, 492 00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:01.490 just shoot me a text after you leave the rating and I'll send one your 493 00:32:01.529 --> 00:32:06.329 way. Text me at four hundred seven for and I know three D and 494 00:32:06.329 --> 00:32:07.250 Thirty two eight
