Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to be tob growth.
I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media.
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I'm joined today by Alex Hedel.
He's the VP of publishing at big machine
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music. Alex, welcome to the
show. How's it going today? Man,
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thank you so much, Logan to
it's going great, beautifulday in Nashville.
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Absolutely so. As as listeners can
probably tell from your title, you
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are not a BB marketer, at
least inn't in your current role, and
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so people might be thinking, will
hold on a second. We are normally
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interviewing marketing leaders at BEDB tech companies. Why are we talking to Alex here
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from from a record label? And
what we're going to be talking about is
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what marketers in BTB can learn from
the tactics, in the strategies that you
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employ every day at a record label. So for a little bit of context,
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Alex, tell us a little bit
about your current role, what you're
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doing at the record label and and
some context to kind of tea up this
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conversation. So my current role at
big machine music is I lead creative for
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the publishing arm of the of the
label group, and so that's very much
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the creative side of of the company. I manage and develop songwriters and also
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develop artists who write their own songs. We currently have, I think,
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around twenty songwriters or wor songwriter artists
on our on our roster, and it's
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really our job to, you know, develop them for the mark it.
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So these are people with talent,
people that write songs on a daily basis
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and really just making sure that they
are producing songs that are competitive that then
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we can take and shop out two
different artists or TV shows or movies or
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video games or really anywhere a copyright
can make make money. Where we've really
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excelled is just in the country radio
and now pop radio game though. So
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you know, whether it's yeah,
like, you know, finding a young
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luke combs or a young Brett,
young and believing in what they're writing,
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and then and the really just focusing
on making sure that it's competitive sonically for
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the market. And then, of
course, then you are selling it to
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different people within your own company,
making sure people are prepped with right information.
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You know, on that side we're
very much in product development, I
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guess you would say. We obviously
we call it artist development, but with
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songwriters it's kind of the same thing. And then yet even more where we
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are instructing them on what is competitive
in the market. We're keeping them fresh
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on what artists are doing well right
now, what we think that we can
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we can go after. I mean, whether it's an artist that, you
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know, doesn't write their own songs
and you know they're writing songs in a
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room and then I am taking those
songs and pitching it to the artists in
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our person the artists themselves, their
producer, really anyone who's involved in that
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decision making process around them. Or
if it's an artist that does write their
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own songs, then I take one
of our his songwriters try to make an
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introduction in a natural sense, which
is, you know, really where sales
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comes in. You know, whether
you're pitching a song, I mean you're
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built a relationship, you got to
rapport reputation that you can put forth and
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really leverage to, you know,
then make sure that there are giving you
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the time and respect that you need
to really show you you know, hey,
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I have a great product. He
please take this seriously. And then
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or, you know, if you're
shopping your songwriter to collaborate with an artist,
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then you're really just kind of trying
to work on style. You know,
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lyrics, things that you know,
these this artists are definitely going to
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connect to in order to try and
make that connection for them to get in
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a room together or really pedigree.
So it's if it's a hit songwriter that
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has written a bunch of hits.
Well, like sometimes like, let's say,
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I'm I don't know, kind the
sky, like a guy like Sam
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hunt or something like that, that
you know, I'm trying to shop one
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of my writers over to write with. Well, I know Sam, you
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know, certainly likes more artistic,
you know, forms of contemporary music,
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and so somebody who can really write
great lyrics. So somebody who really respects
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and slows down the creative process.
I mean just thinking about these kind of
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micromoments in a room and then,
you know, really just marketing that towards
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persons. You're making this connection to
to people that can create together and in
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a way that hopefully yields a hit. So I love how much relationships were
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just woven throughout kind of that background
and context, Alex, and I'd like
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to dig in to that a little
bit because I do think there are some
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parallels for bb sales and marketing leaders, because, you know, in bb
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we usually have a very targeted list, a targeted focus of the market that
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we're trying to serve. We're trying
to serve, you know, VP's of
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sales at technology companies or operations managers
at manufacturing companies. We kind of know
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that profile. And in bb we're
not trying to reach the masses. We're
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not trying to reach millions and billions
of people. And when you think about
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a record label you think about all
the consumption on the consumer level of the
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music. But really in your role
it's about focusing first on those key relationships
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and then being able to identify how
do I build those relationships, how do
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I open open those doors to new
relationships, how do I foster them,
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and then how do I connect what
I know about them, not in kind
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of a baetan switch sort of way, but what I understand to match what
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I have to offer to them?
So what are some of the things that
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you think have been helpful for you
and in both opening those doors to new
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relationships and continuing to foster those with
the folks in the market that you're trying
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to serve? You mention a couple
key personas that you're building relationships with for
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for your company and for the songwriters
that you represent. What are some of
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those things that have been your secret
sauce? I mean really it's just managing
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what I'm putting forward to people.
I mean I always is. My goal
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is to always be bringing value to
somebody. I never want to hustle anybody
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because honestly, they want to work
with me again. And the music community,
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I mean the country music community,
is small. But like, if
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you really look at the music community, like I mean can when we go
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to the grammys every year, you
realize how big of a world of music
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it is, but you also realize
how small the community of success it is.
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And so if you want to play
ball, then you better bring your
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best every day. So that's why
I focus so much. I'm, you
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know, just knowing intimately the people
that I'm working with. You know,
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my songwriters. I need to know
what they love with it, how they
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represent themselves in the room, how
they want to win, as a big
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thing for me too, because,
you know, if they are passionate about
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the direction that we're heading in,
then I have, you know, somebody
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who's making our quote unquote, product
that is passionate, feels inspired, knows
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that every day they're going in and
doing something that is very purposeful for them.
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So, you know, once you
have that, once you have somebody
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that is excited to, you know, go in and make a collaboration,
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happens writing these songs that then I
can, you know, become passionate about
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and bring to these people, I
think that that is just kind of a
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contagious factor, you know, when
you have something that is so real to,
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you know, already a few people, and then you're bringing it to
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the buyer, which is, you
know, really an AAR person at a
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record label or a or a producer
or an artist or, honestly, sometimes
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I'm pitching stuff to video games and
film and TV and stuff like that too,
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and that's a bit of a different
game. But it's still great that
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you believe in your products. I
mean, if you really believe in your
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product, other people will start to
leave as well. Hey, everybody,
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let's get back to the show.
Absolutely I love that you talked. You
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know, we kind of started down
this trail talking about relationships and you touched
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on something. They're knowing. What
the the people in the market that you're
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trying to serve, what they're passionate
about, and I think in in BB
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marketing we kind of skip over the
emotional aspect of it. We you know,
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if you're selling a crm software or
a sales engagement platform, it's well,
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we're missing this time and and this
feature fits this problem and solves and
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provides this benefit. But what's the
emotional situation of the people that were selling
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to, what gets them fired up, what gets them frustrated, what really
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takes them off right and and how
can we determine where their emotional state aligns
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with what we're passionate about as a
brandon and what our what our why is?
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And then in telling a story,
where your product or your service weaves
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in, weaves into that. You
kind of mentioned another thing that we're very
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passionate about here, Alex I.
It was kind of subtle on what you
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said there, but you essentially alluding
to playing the long game, that you're
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always adding value. You're not looking
to every interaction. I deposit this,
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I get this back out right,
I'm going to deposit, I'm going to
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deposit, I'm going to deposit.
Like Gary V says, Jab Jab,
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Jab, right hook. It's not
Jabb Right Hook, Jab right hook.
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Right. I'm going to give and
take, give and take. It's give,
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give, give, and then it's
probably going to come back to you
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before you even ask if you're if
you're giving enough. At the same time
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you do, you know, as
marketers, as salespeople, we've got quotas
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to hit, we've got pipeline to
generate. There is a responsibility for the
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business results. So how do you
balance that mentality and being competitive and somewhat
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aggressive, passionate about what you do
and getting that message to the right people
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without come thing across as hey,
I'm just trying to hustle? It's that's
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really my end game. How do
you balance that? And what do you
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think other sales and marketing folks could
learn their Alex? I mean, I
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think it depends on the context of
first of all, there's a quote that
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I love from our CEO. He
always says like, you know, welcome
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to the music business. Like how
long do you want to play, as
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in like welcome to the Casino?
How long do you want to play?
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Do you want to throw all your
money down and walk away in two weeks,
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or you want to learn the game? You want to figure out how
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you can play the longest, how
you can be involved and how you can
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make the biggest impact. And you
know, I think it depends in the
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context. With us, when we
were starting this company out eight years ago,
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we were we were small. We
had a budget that had kind of
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been set out in front of us
of money that we're going to be able
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to grow our company with, but
it wasn't through acquisitions, it was it
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was really through signing and development.
So I mean really for us it was
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like, you know, when you
have like three or four or five songwriters
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early on, you have a lot
of places you can go. And so
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yeah, there is always a need
to be in front of people in selling,
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but you know, if you have
other avenues, if one if one
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area is not appropriate just yet,
well you can still build a relationship by
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like, you know, sharing good
content with that person or sharing time with
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that person or just honestly becoming a
friend or at least building reputation where you're
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showing, Hey, I'm doing this
over here and I'm going to come come
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to you at some point. But
you know, there's other for me it
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was always I can go focus on
this over here, build more reputation for
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our song where just build more of
a story over here, so then eventually
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I can bring it over here to
a place that, you know, I
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couldn't go over and try and hustle, but I'm just not going to do
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it. I'm going to go when
it's appropriate and when I'm really bringing value
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to them. So I think it's
just being really respectful of timing, because
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it really does play so much into
into growth, you know. I mean
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it's knowing, knowing when you're we're
when you're ready to take advantage of the
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right situation. Yeah, absolutely makes
sense that I hit the nail on the
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head there. Yeah, absolutely,
and I have a follow up question to
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that, Alex, because I think
that the stage you describe kind of talking
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about the earlier days of the company, when you're kind of that that disruptor
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you're not the the biggest player in
town yet, that sort of stuff.
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There are a lot of companies that
we talked to that are maybe at that
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stage in their own start up journey. Maybe they've got their seed round or
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they've got a series a of funding
and they're just starting to kind of try
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and take on the bigger names in
in their space and in very different industries.
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And so they've got to make a
decision. How do we go to
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market? Do we do we try
to, you know, run a bunch
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of ADS and and try to get
a bunch of direct response? Do we
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go the the long game of creating
more content and building very strategic relationships,
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it sounds to you, as opposed
to kind of pounding the phones and making
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a ton of sales calls and and
and try and say hey, do you
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want to work with us? Do
you want to work with us? Do
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you want to work with us?
That was that was not the the Mo
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that you took book, even though
it's like, Hey, I'm responsible for
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you know, we've got to drive
new business. Do you think that that's
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a leadership thing that some organizations?
I can imagine, you know, the
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CEO saying, well, we don't
have time to kind of play the long
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game, like we've got a sink
or swim now, as much as I
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see kind of this long game that
you want to play building relationships and in
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adding value without that direct ask was
that a struggle to kind of balance that
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for you in the early days or
not? And and how did leadership kind
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of play a role in that?
I mean, no, they were.
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They were definitely on our tails when
I were losing money, but luckily we
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were able to turn that around pretty
quickly. I think that it can.
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You know, it depends, once
again, depends on the product. Some
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things you just had to mass market, you know. Sometimes you sometimes you
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have to spend that money just to
freaking honestly shove it down people's throat until
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they know that they need it,
they know that want it. But I
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think that there's a happy medium there
because, you know, when you're not
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able to play the long game and
you, you know, do have that
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pressure of maybe some finances and or
bosses or owners or whatever partners, whatever
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you're dealing with, I think that
there's, you know, a strategy that
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we like to use so much is, let's identify, you know, the
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tastemaker, like, let's identify that
that point in the market that can make
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waves and let's go make a fan
of of that person. So it's like
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for us it's like yeah, okay. Like on our creative side, you
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know, I'm marking usually to marketing, usually to individuals and trying to get
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them to you know, record a
song or to take my song right and
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put it, you know, in
a room with another artist. But I
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think more than anything, it's like, you know, we also use publications.
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You know, we use billboard,
we use rolling stone, we use
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various professional music publications and songwriter magazines, stuff like that. People things that
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we know that are you know,
our industry, you know, pays attention
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to and we folks on making sure
that our songwriters regularly doing interviews, they're
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they're making there's themselves more of a
public profile over time. And then,
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you know, really if it's,
for instance, Scott or Chet who's the
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CEO of our company, you know, if we need get something done really
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quickly, will we can go right
to him because we do that relationship and
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he can make big ways. You
know, there's sometimes you're looking to kind
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of build a grounds, grounds well
and sometimes you looking to make a splash
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and you know, I think that
having the ability to do both and having
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respect for the timing of each of
those situations and for what situation it's appropriate
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is very essential. Yeah, absolutely, Alex. as we round out the
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conversation today, I want to draw
one more parallel between your world in the
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in the music industry, and be
tob sales and marketing and something you alluded
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to earlier. It's the relationship between
taking taking your product to market and then
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giving feedback. So in a BB
context that might not it's not going to
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be songwriters, but it is going
to be your your product development team,
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your product team, who is providing
updates if you, you know, have
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a Sass platforms, something like that. And so I think the lesson there
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for sales and marketing teams is is
to if you don't have that line of
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communication into your product team at some
level to be able to provide some feedback.
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We're hearing this about our service.
We're we're seeing demand for this in
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the market, but we don't have
an answer for it. To make sure
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that you open those lines of communications. Do you think that's that's kind of
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the lesson there as we try and
bridge that gap between music industry and be
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to be a one more time today. I mean I think the close,
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the closer your product developers are to
the actual market, the better. You
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know. I really think that you
know people that are creating creating a product.
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For me, it's, once again, songwriters. I am constantly telling
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them, Hey, so andso is
getting ready to record a new album.
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Hey, so and so is getting, you know, looking for a hit
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to put on the radio. So
and so it's looking for, you know,
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a song for their new EP.
You know, we're always informing people
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on this and then we're also informing
of like what's coming up? Oh,
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there's this new sound over here that
you should check out. I think she's
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really take take a look at this
and see what you can add to it
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to see where you can take this
because, honestly, if they're just you
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know, some people can create magic
in a dark room in that you know,
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in the back corner or some place
in Silicon Valley or Nashville, Tennessee,
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or in New York City or you
know wherever it is, but more
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often than not we're improving on existing
ideas and so we have to know what
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those existing ideas are at the market
in order to really take that next step.
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So I really, I really believe
that sales teams and once again I'm
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kind of a bridge gap. Ay, I do a little bit of both,
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but I really believe that, you
know, the more informed, the
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more information that's going from your sales
staff, it's your product development company.
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With respect, that is important,
because that relationship can become contentious, the
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better, because that's how people grow, that's how people are challenged, that's
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how people think creatively and don't get
complacent. Yeah, absolutely, and that's
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how you create products that the market
actually wants. You know, I love
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one of the I forget where this
quote is from, but don't don't take
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your product and try and find people
to to buy it. Find what people
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are wanting to buy and create a
product to offer them. I'm at really
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not quoting that well, but hopefully
I get the point across there. That
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kind of sums up what you were
talking about there, Alex. well,
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this has been a great conversation,
man. I really appreciate you being down
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for this. I think it was
a little bit of a changeup episode,
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and a fun one at least.
A great conversation for me. I hope
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listeners got some value out of it. Alex, if anybody wants to reach
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out get connected with you, or
just anything else exciting that you guys have
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going on at the company that you
want to share with listeners today, what's
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something you want to share their I
mean what's going on the company? Last
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week was our eighth year anniversary and
we've actually in the same week we celebrate
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our thirty number one hit song as
well as currently we're we've been thirty five
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weeks straight at the top of the
billboard hot country songs chart with two songs,
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specifically tenzero hours by Justin Bieber and
Dan Shay, Co written by our
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writer, Justin, your Dylan and
Laura Velt's, who co wrote the bones
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by Mary Moris that then took over
for that, mistaking it. So we're
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having a hell of a birthday.
That's awesome, man. And you personally,
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if someone wants to reach out or
stay connected, what's the best way?
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Linkedin twitter, what's the best way
to stay connected with you, man?
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I mean I'm not like, I'm
not on every social I am on
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instagram and that's pretty much where I
live and my handle is public, but
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it's literally just my name, Alex
Hedel. Awesome. Well, thank you
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so much for a great conversation,
Alex. this has been a ton of
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fun, man, of course.
Yeah, thank you guys so much.
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I appreciate it. Is the decisionmaker
for your product or service a bdb marketer?
302
00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:48.529
Are you looking to reach those buyers
through the medium of podcasting? Considered
303
00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:52.680
becoming a cohost of BB growth?
This show is consistently ranked as a top
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00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.920
one hundred podcast in the marketing category
of Apple Podcasts, and the show gets
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00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:02.640
more than a hundred and thirty thousand
downloads each month. We've already done the
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00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:07.269
work of building the audience, so
you can focus on delivering incredible content to
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00:20:07.390 --> 00:20:11.829
our listeners. If you're interested,
email logan at sweetfish Mediacom