Transcript
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Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media.
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I'm joined today by Jonathan POGATT.
He's the VP of marketing over at
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drips. Jonathan, welcome to the
show. I have to ask you.
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What is your wallpaper currently on your
cell phone? Listeners want to know.
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Man, Oh wow, logan,
that's that was a curveball, I have
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to admit, and I'm ashamed of
it, it is default blue skies with
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bubbles on it. Default. Okay, all right, that's all right.
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We're trying to open up the show
with a little bit of a curveball.
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I give you something to think about. In plus, I'm just really curious.
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I'm one of those that is always
changing up my wallpaper right I get
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bored, I'm looking for a nice
new landscape or I see something from a
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photographer I like on instagram. Anyway, Jonathan, we are going to be
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talking about something you're really passionate about
and something that has led to some phenomenal
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results over at drips in the last
few years, since you came on as
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the first marketing higher, and that's
really your framework for partnership marketing. Tell
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us a little bit about why partnership
marketing has been so influential for you guys
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at trips and why it's something that
you're so passionate about. Yeah, for
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sure. In one one last comment
of defense of my default. My year
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old would also be pretty ashamed of
me for having anything default in his world
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of fortnight. Not supposed to be
a default anything. Oh Yeah, yeah,
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I love it, man. I'm
gonna I'm going to use that as
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a takeaway from this call. But
partnership marketing has been something that has helped
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us quite exponentially. We're four year
old company in the text base. We
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Service Companies Large and small. familar
enterprise, fortune one, hundreds to two
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agencies that service the other clients and
when I came on board about a year
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and a half ago, I had
one marketing manager that currently worked at the
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company. kind of a Swiss army
knife of everything. Really good at design,
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paid media, social media, probably
a place a lot of your listeners
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have found themselves in at some point, just being part of a lean,
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startup, scale up type of company
where you've got to have a lot of
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hats on, and that's still the
case. But when you have to wear
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a lot of hats, you sometimes
have to think about how to get the
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most out of your return on effort, your return on time, and that's
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where partnership marketing is really come into
play with us and allowed us to and
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has continued to allow us to to
scale our efforts and get a huge return
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back on our time and investment.
I love it. Man always looking for
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more return on investment as well as
time. It's really important with a lot
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of lean marketing teams that I talked
to as well, which you know.
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I know that's the way you describe
your team over there at trips. Jonathan,
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as you and I were talking before
this interview, you mentioned something that
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was interesting to me, and that
is there's a there's a distinction between Channel
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Marketing and Partnership Marketing in the way
that you guys define it, and how
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does it differ compared to some things
that might be similar, might be in
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people's minds as they're listening to this, like Channel Marketing? Yeah, that's
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that's a great way of putting it, and you know this is our definition.
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So partnership versus channel. I think
a lot of it has to do
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the level of thought, thoughtfulness and
the most the amount of time you put
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into developing your relationships. When I
think about Channel Marketing, and I've been
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on both sides of the coin,
when it's come the channel, it's very
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transactionally focused, right, it's very
pipeline driven, it's measured very frequently and
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you might drop a partner of than
that generating enough revenue for you in the
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short term. I think of partnership
marketing as more of a long term play.
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It's about developing relationships, it's about
kind of the long balld long game.
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For any Gary V fans out there, right, it's about finding somebody
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that you love doing business with,
that share a number of things in common
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with your company, because ultimately we
all want to make revenue. This isn't
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just for fun, but it's more
of a longer term play and, in
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my opinion, something that delivers a
better r why? Absolutely, man.
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So from here we're going to be
talking about, you know, for things,
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to develop your your partnership marketing strategy. One really what that can look
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like in your organization. How do
you focus on delivering value, which you've
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already quoted Gary V, and you're
going to be talking about how to deliver
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value. James R CEO just already
loves you and I'm sure a lot of
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regular our listeners that are like minded
with us. It's sweetish to already so
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those two and then how to scale
that up and how to operationalize it.
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But one question before we get into
the four pieces of the how to of
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partnership marketing is how do you determine
if you're ready for it or if it's
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the right move for you? So
tell us a little bit from your perspective,
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how you guys identified at drips that
partnership marketing was the way to go.
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Was it your stage? What were
the things that came into it?
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I'll stop trying to guess and just
let you answer, man. Yeah,
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I mean another great question, right, like it has to do with a
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few things. One of them is
the stage of your company. Has a
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lot to do to with ideal client
profile and who you who you serve as
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a client base. Right, and
we can get into like what we consider
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to be the five pillars of our
partnership marketing strategy. But you have to
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have influence in your space too,
and that could be through thought leadership,
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could be through content marketing, it
could be how visible you are at conferences
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or, these days, virtual events. You have to have something to give
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as well. So you have to
have some level of influence, wherever it
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may be. With our company I've
been super fortunate to be synked up with
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our cofounder and CEO, who is
a marketer by by nature, which is
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a huge advantage for me as a
marketer. I don't have to go through
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kind of those motions of explaining why
this is valuable. He just gets it,
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has great ways to make things better. He has had a tremendous amount
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of in influence with the linkedin audience. He has developed relationships one by one
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by one in order to grow this
company. So when we think about we
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have to give in terms of influence, it's it's a certain amount of scale
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to a certain amount of personalization that
we bring to the table when we're talking
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to companies that we want to do
business with. I talked a little bit
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about ideal client profile. You have
to have one and it sounds very fundamental.
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I think if you were to ask
everybody at the company, Anybody's company,
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you know, what's our ideal client
profile, this should be pretty insane.
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In live. Should have the same
answer, or at least be in
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the same neighborhood, but most companies
don't have a defined and documented ideal client
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profile. It's incredibly important to have
before you even start to talk about partnership
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marketing, because you're going to be
spending a lot of time and cycles in
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conversations that necessarily are good to be
a great use of your time. And
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this sounds very obvious, but do
you have a marketing department that could establish
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an own this thing? Right?
It can't be the responsibility of your CEO
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to own partnership marketing as a function. You've got to have somebody that cares
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about it, that somebody that owns
that number at the end of the day
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and has line of sight on kind
of the KPIS that you're going to measure
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to understand whether or not it's successful. I love it, Jonathan. So
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recap for me the five pillars of
partnership marketing as you guys define them,
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and then we'll go through them each
step by step. But let's lay out
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the five real quick if you could
recap them for list. Nurse Man,
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absolutely. First thing is, are
you ready for partnership marketing? We could
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talk a little bit about what that
means, identifying the right partners giving value.
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First, scaling, how do you
take this from one to ten,
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and then operationalizing, like those are
the five things you really need to think
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about when you're starting a partnership marketing
practice at your company. Yeah, so,
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you know, you already alluded to
step number one, talking about are
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you ready? You mentioned something offline
to me that I thought was interesting.
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Kind of plays into this question.
Do you need to act a little bit
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bigger than you are, or are
you a big established company that needs to
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act a little bit smaller than you
actually are? Tell us a little bit
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about what you mean by that and
how does that play into figuring out are
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you ready? It is partnership marketing
right for you? Yeah, so you
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have to know what your place is, I think, a little bit and
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just having some self awareness, right, and I think part of that process
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is understanding what your superpower is.
Right, every every company, every markers,
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going to have their own unique superpower, and what I mean by superpower
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is, what could you bring to
the table that's going to deliver value to
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the company you're looking to partner with? What what's going to make them really
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care? So we're an example of
that. Like what's what's your marketing superpower?
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What's DRIPS marketing superpower? For sure. So when we're talking to some
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partners of ours that are considered a
little bit more enterprise later stage, super
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well funded, we're still good strapped, huge client base. You know,
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there's some things that they're going to
be really good at. Right they're gonna
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have more budget, they're going to
have a marketing team of thirty right there
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and literally have, you know,
twenty times more resources than we have.
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But what are some of the things
that we can bring the table? They
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can one, we can do faster, we could be more agile, we
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could execute quickly, we can execute
off plan if we need to. A
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lot of larger companies they'll plan a
quarter and advance and I've worked with them.
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It's like hey, if this request
comes in que we can't execute it
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till Qtwo. As kind of a
scale up company like drips has and at
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having a lean marketing team, like
I know a lot of your listeners are.
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You know, you can do faster
and you can execute much quicker and
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that's a huge advantage to an enterprise
company that they're going to want to take
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advantage of. I love it,
man. So pillar number two is recognizing
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who are the partners, who are
the right fit partners that you need to
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go after. You kind of mentioned
there in in that example, one way
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that that might look for us.
You know, we've been beating this drum
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since last year, this idea that
we go further faster together then we'll go
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alone. And a lot of that
is identifying who shares a similar ICP and
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similar buyer persona to you. They
might be directly complementary to your offering,
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but they might not be if they're
trying to reach the same people and they
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are not competitive. That's kind of
where we start and as we look at
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partners that we collaborate on content with, is that where you guys start as
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well? Very similar. So it's
a bit of a hate the word hack,
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right, but it's like, if
you want to get started quickly in
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the most effective and efficient way,
understand what other technologies, if you're a
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tech company, your clients are using, right and how you fit in their
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text act and what would be complimentary
in terms of going to market together when
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it comes down to reaching the same
ideal client profile. So for us it's
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about who are the companies are clients
are using? Are They not competitive or
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the complementary? And can we tell
a story together too? So I like
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to identify partners that where their clients
would make great trips clients and our clients
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would make great clients for them.
I think it's a win win situation.
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Yeah, absolutely. So let's say
you know pillar number three is adding value,
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and we're talking about this partner relationship. This might come back to what
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we talked about earlier in recognizing your
superpower, but I see a lot of
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folks that are like, okay,
one, they only take part of what
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you just said. We're going to
identify all the people who have clients that
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would make great clients for us,
and they don't stop and think. Wait,
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would our clients make good clients for
them? Am I creating a win
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win or just a win for me, because then it's not a hack.
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Then you really you know you sound
like a hack when you go pitch them,
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Hey, will be a great partner, when really it's just like hey,
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we're just coming in with her hand
open, right. And so how
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do you think about adding value to
a partner relationship? It seems like it's
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one you've got to think about.
Where is the win win and then you
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kind of press into that. What
has that looked like for you guys,
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because I imagine in different partner relationships
the way you add value might be different.
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So what are maybe some of those
examples so that people can start to
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think through? Okay, maybe I
do have something different to offer here to
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someone who would be very strategic,
but I'm not sure how to make that
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ask or how to present it as
a win win. For sure, and
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this is going to sound very fundamental, but in my opinion the best advice
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that I get is the basics and
going back to the basics. So you
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have to be you have to give
first. It's super important to drive as
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much value to that partner as possible, and part of that is identifying and
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leaning into that Super Power of yours. Right, you don't have a super
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power. You're probably not ready for
partnership marketing, right, or at least
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you're probably not ready to partner with
somebody that might be a larger company than
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you are. There's advantages to that. So always give without expectation. I
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think that's it's maybe quoting somebody we
all know already again, but it's just
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so important to to really understand is
like give and don't think about like it's
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just going to hit my pipeline in
the next week or what's your contribution to
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my revenue in the next month?
You have to be able to give with
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one hundred percent authenticity, without expectation. And sometimes these are the small things.
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This is where relationships really come into
play. Could be hosting a dinner
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right, could be buying the drink
tab. It could be, you know,
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building a case study with clients that
we have in common and doing the
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hard work, having your content team
do works, having your design team design
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on their letter right, use their
branding. These are all really small things
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that mean a ton to a really
busy marketer. Somebody comes to me and
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says, Hey, Jonathan, hey, we I know we have this client
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in common. I was just on
the phone with them. They said all
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these great things about you here.
I just put this case study together for
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you with your branding. I would
be thrilled out of my mind. And
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how much time did that take them? Probably took some time, right,
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but couple hours of time. They're
going to get a huge return on investment
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for me for doing that. Yeah, absolutely, that's a great example.
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Another one I think of as you
know, we've done some content collaborations with
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with folks in the marketing and the
sales space. Had them contribute content.
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One we gave them a very clear
framework on how we wanted them to submit
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the content. Made it very easy. And then when, when we took
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that content, we wrote a linkedin
status update for them and not just saying
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hey, whence this goes live,
will tag you? Can you share it,
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giving them something to share. Even
even in that scenario, though,
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that it was still a little bit
less participation than what we were wanting.
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But I mean you've got to you
got to kind of see where that line
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is, wherever you think it is
like, Oh, I've done enough,
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you probably need to go a stepper
too farther. You know. Another thing
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is, hey, we're a bootstrapped, Scaling Up Company of about twenty right
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now. There are a lot of
bigger brands, but hey, we've been
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at this podcast thing before podcasting was
cool. We've got sixteen hundred episodes.
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We get a hundred and fifty thousand
downloads a month, and so I've seen
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that as a lever to where,
hey, we could we could partner with
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someone over here. Let us feature
your CEO and the podcast were. You
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guys could run an ad on our
show for four times over the next month.
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But then here's kind of where what
you're talking about make it valuable and
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make it easy and frictionless, instead
of just saying, Hey, you could
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run an out on our show for
for a few months or four times over
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the next month. Will write the
ad for you and then you guys can
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give it a thumbs up, as
opposed to like yeah, that's great,
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now I got to do something right, and it becomes a withdrawal from that
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emotional bank account instead of the deposit
that I was thinking it was going to
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be. Jonathan, I want to
make time for pillars four and five,
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because I think they're really where the
rubber meets the road. How do you
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scale this up and how do you
operationalize it? Tell us about these last
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two pillars. As you guys have
progressed in your own partnership, marketing evolution,
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it drips when it comes to scale. It's about something really important to
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is is the CEO head of sales? Are they engaged, not on let
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your head of sales or CEO,
but is the CEO and the head of
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sales at the other company engaged,
because if it's not, it's going to
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be really hard to work together,
right, to be really hard to align
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on priorities, and that might be
asked being a lot right. So kind
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of using alignment as the operative word, meaning does the CEO know that we
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have a program together to where we
are doing a number of these activities that?
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Do they know that we've given with
that expectation? Do they know that
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they've helped support us as well?
It's really important. Otherwise you're living on
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an island, right. You're going
to end up as a line item on
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somebody's budget that's going to say,
what's the Roy of partnership marketing? You
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want that CEO and head of sales
to say, Oh my God, that
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companies help deliver so much value for
us. So I think that's one of
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the big keys when it comes to
scale. In this might sound counterintuitive,
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but when it comes to scale,
I think less is more. Right.
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I think you start off by iding
we call thirty to forty partners or so,
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but really pick for pick for where
you're going to make a big impact.
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Right, big impact. You're going
to share pipeline, you're going to
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do client inners and prospect dinners together. You're going to really get to know
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each other sales process. You're going
to introduce your social media manager to their
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social media manager, right their VENTP
are, their head of marketing, their
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sales. You're going to get on
the same page with everything. They're going
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to be your best friend. You're
going to be texting them, they're going
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to be texting you. That's how
we really look at partnership marketing and that's
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how we look at scale. Is
You know, initially we thought let's get
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forty, fifty partners, but we
were making zero impact and we've made a
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tremendous amount of impact by just selecting
for and work. Man, I love
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that. The way to scale is
is to not scale right, and that's
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going to scale the results. It's
not just about scaling number of relationships,
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it's taking the right relationships and having
those scale. This so well put,
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I'm not even summing it up as
well as you just said it. For
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anybody listening, just hit the back
button a few times listen to Jonathan say
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it instead of me again. All
right, now let's talk a little bit
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about operationalizing it. You mentioned the
head of sales or CEO. If they're
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still involved in Biz Dev and your
organization getting aligned with them. What are
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some of the other key operational things
that you guys have figured out? Man,
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turning this switch or doing this one
thing really makes this a lot more
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effective and efficient. Yeah, it's
the continuation in alignment of relationships really,
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but the first one when it comes
operationalizing to is just staying in your weight
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class. This is has a little
bit to do with ideing partners as well,
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but like, check yourself at this
point to make sure that you're not
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biting off a little bit more than
you can chew. All right, like,
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how awesome would it be if I
had an official partnership marketing agreement with
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Google? I've very little to give
Google right in terms of value. I
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could try, but I'm always going
to be the tiniest little speck on their
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radar. Just not going to work
right. So thin iding those companies that
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you could grow with as part of
the operational process. Getting alignment with your
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team members something we talked about already. That's super important, making sure that
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everybody's on the same page. Having
Regular Meetings as well with your stakeholder.
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So I'll have meetings with the head
of marketing at a company might be partner
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with. Our CEO will have meetings
regularly with their CEO or head of sales.
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They'll deep pipeline sharing the create shared
dashboards, getting our cfos involved as
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well, something that people rarely think
of when you think about like how do
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you scale a marketing effort? Be
the best friend ever with your CFO right
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be on the same page so that
when he's reviewing a budget, when he's
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reviewing you know, costs, a
return on time, if you were using
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a project management system, that he
goes, Oh, no way, we're
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touching this. We've got to grow
that. Right there, there, I
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know exactly what they're doing. Right
there. It's something that's often forgotten about
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but incredibly valuable as to have your
CFO aligned and have a plan, have
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goals. I think partnership marketing is
ultimately about growing together with a company you
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know that fits and serves your ideal
client profile and that's the operative thing.
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You're going together. Right we're not
having calls to talk about how much revenue
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you've given to us. It's all
about how are we doing this together?
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Are we winning together? And to
have check points to make sure it's working
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out for both of you, because
it's it's a Onesar sided relationship. That's
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not a partnership. Yeah, absolutely, and I love that we came back
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to that. That it's about value, it's about the mutual windwin. That
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we touched on several points throughout throughout
this conversation, Jonathan, this has been
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fantastic for anybody who has kind of
been got me excited about this episode.
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There there are two things I won't
I share with folks. We did a
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previous episode on the shared metrics that
really drive marketing and finance alignment. So,
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just going off of what you said
there, Jonathan, night there was
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a fantastic episode with Jeremy Barlow from
Diligent Corporation. Will Link to that in
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the show notes, and also Eric
From Hawk media recently talked about there's a
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good bit of overlap here in the
way that they approached their referral partner program
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in a previous episode, just probably
about a week or song. Ghost will
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link to both of those. I
think they are good add ons to what
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Jonathan was sharing here today. Jonathan, back over to you, man,
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if anybody listening to this has become
a fast fan of yours, despite your
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default wallpaper on your phone, if
that's okay with anybody, but the best
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00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:51.359
way for them to reach out linkedin
the best channel to stay connected with you,
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man. Yeah, check me out
on Linkedin, Jonathan poguet. You'll
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find me there easy enough. Jonathan. Thank you so much for putting up
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with my curveball questions. Deliver and
some value sharing what's working for you.
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Guys. It's been a ton of
fun and I really appreciate you being a
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guest on the show today. Okay, thanks for having me. Hey,
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everybody, Logan with sweetfish here.
If you're a regular listener of BB growth,
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you know that I'm one of the
cohost of this show, but you
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may not know that I also head
up the sales team here, is sweetfish.
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So, for those of you in
sales or sales ops, I wanted
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to take a second to share something
that's made us insanely more efficient lately.
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Our team has been using lead Iq
for the past few months and what you
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us to take us four hours gathering
contact data now takes us only one.
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We're seventy five percent more efficient.
We're able to move faster without bound prospecting
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and organizing our campaigns is so much
easier than before. I'd highly suggest you
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guys check out lead Iq as well. You can check them out at lead
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iqcom. That's Elle a d iqcom. Are you on Linkedin? That's a
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00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.349
stupid question. Of course you're on
linked it. Here's so we fish.
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We've gone all in on the platform. Multiple people from our team are creating
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content there. Sometimes it's a funny
gift for me, other times it's a
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00:22:11.670 --> 00:22:15.710
micro video or a slide deck,
and sometimes it's just a regular old status
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00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:19.900
update that shares their unique point of
view on BB marketing leadership or their job
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00:22:21.019 --> 00:22:26.059
function. We're posting this content through
their personal profile, not our company page,
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and it would warm my heart and
soul if you connected with each of
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our evangelists. will be adding more
down the road, but for now you
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00:22:33.130 --> 00:22:37.890
should connect with bill read, our
COO, Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director,
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Dan Sanchez, our director of audience
growth, Logan Lyles, are Director
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00:22:42.289 --> 00:22:45.920
of partnerships, and me, James
Carberry. We are having a whole lot
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of fun on Linkedin pretty much every
single day and we'd love for you to
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be a part of it.