Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:07.830 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:07.910 --> 00:00:11.589 I'm joined today by Andrew Holly. He's the CMO over at binder. 3 00:00:11.710 --> 00:00:14.230 Andrew, welcome to the show. How are you today, sir? I'm 4 00:00:14.310 --> 00:00:16.870 fantastic. It's great to be with you, Logan. Well, thanks again 5 00:00:16.870 --> 00:00:20.070 for joining us, Andrew. We've been asking some fun questions to get to 6 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:23.019 know our guests a little bit, and one of the things I would love 7 00:00:23.059 --> 00:00:27.460 to know, Andrew, have you picked up any fun or interesting hobbies during 8 00:00:27.539 --> 00:00:33.219 this time of quarantine and self isolation? Only I would actually say I've dropped 9 00:00:33.299 --> 00:00:37.689 a few, and I don't know why this is so. Music is something 10 00:00:37.689 --> 00:00:41.130 I'm very interested in play instruments, but I had picked up the electric base 11 00:00:41.250 --> 00:00:44.210 to play with my son, who plays like a guitar. I've been doing 12 00:00:44.329 --> 00:00:49.490 less of that. I had also intended to start meditating. I didn't do 13 00:00:49.609 --> 00:00:54.679 that and I've kind of stopped doing my inhome workouts. So I find actually 14 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:59.439 I'm having trouble finding the scope to do some of those things I'd like to 15 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:03.640 do. The only constant has been bike riding. I've I've been bike riding 16 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.349 a lot and I think maybe that's been a really good release for me. 17 00:01:07.390 --> 00:01:11.069 Yeah, has that been outdoors, actual bike riding, or are you one 18 00:01:11.109 --> 00:01:15.829 of those Peloton fans in inside the house? For me it's all about being 19 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:19.500 outside, man. I'd rather be biking through the hail that inside on a 20 00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:22.459 Pelaton. Pelotons are super cool, but for me a lot of it's just 21 00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:25.939 being out in the fresh air, especially because we're behind the screen enough right 22 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:27.379 at work. I don't know that I want to be behind a screen when 23 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:30.700 I'm bike R getting. Yeah, I hear you to each is on there, 24 00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:34.969 but I tend to lean that direction with you, and you're especially out 25 00:01:36.010 --> 00:01:38.049 here in Colorado, where I'm at, where we've got a lot of fresh 26 00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:42.090 air. Well, we're going to be talking about the hype over personalization. 27 00:01:42.409 --> 00:01:47.049 That the back and forth it that everybody has been on here and really, 28 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:51.159 where are we at with personalization today as bb marketers, and what are we 29 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.400 going to do about it? So, to kick off that conversation, Andrew, 30 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.760 why is this something for yourself as a be tob marketer that you're so 31 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:02.230 passionate about speaking to today? Sure, I think it starts to I've just 32 00:02:02.310 --> 00:02:06.390 been a you know, be to be marketing junkie. I've worked in the 33 00:02:06.469 --> 00:02:10.030 industry for a long time, you know, for Martech venders and part of 34 00:02:10.069 --> 00:02:15.020 that ecosystem and for the longest time really been part of that twenty year push 35 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:21.740 to get better, more personalized. But when I came to binder and I 36 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:28.979 saw the tremendous creativity happening on kind of the content asset creative side, it 37 00:02:29.139 --> 00:02:32.409 really kind of opened my eyes to that and when, in talking to our 38 00:02:32.449 --> 00:02:37.930 customer base, we see the growing emphasis on that, that really kind of 39 00:02:38.289 --> 00:02:44.800 awakened this self admitted data junkie to the power of creative and to start to 40 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:47.479 look at where it's all going. Yeah, absolutely. So let's set the 41 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:52.360 stage a little bit. I know that there were some some research that you've 42 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:55.960 pointed to recently that really kind of shows us, one, how marketers are 43 00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:01.430 thinking about day and personalization and then also how the folks that we're reaching on 44 00:03:01.509 --> 00:03:06.789 the other end, are buyers, regardless of be to be or BTC, 45 00:03:07.389 --> 00:03:09.830 how they're feeling about the use of that data. Give us a little bit 46 00:03:09.909 --> 00:03:13.900 there as we set the stage. Yes, you bet, you know. 47 00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:16.139 Naturally want you start to kind of think about something either the first a second 48 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:20.139 thing we do is jump on Google and start finding out what of others found 49 00:03:20.139 --> 00:03:22.659 out about it. So when we started thinking, Hey, you know, 50 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:25.460 you know, I think the high water mark of personalization might be upon us, 51 00:03:25.939 --> 00:03:29.330 you go in search and have others been looking at this, and like 52 00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:32.289 right up at the top of the search results. It was remarkable. I 53 00:03:32.449 --> 00:03:39.770 saw just back in December that Gartner, actually not exactly someone who tries to 54 00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:44.560 be on the very leading edge of things. Right, Gartner, predicted that 55 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:50.520 eighty percent of marketers will abandon personalization efforts by two thousand and twenty five and 56 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:52.919 that was kind of like wow. I mean gardener, as you know, 57 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.830 makes a lot of money doing good work, but, you know, supporting 58 00:03:55.870 --> 00:03:59.949 the efforts of technology vendors to get their message across. So for them to 59 00:03:59.990 --> 00:04:01.750 come out with that as like whom? Okay, maybe you're onto something, 60 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:06.430 you know, on the on the consumer side, and one of the four 61 00:04:06.509 --> 00:04:10.939 reasons, you know, I think we're we've seen this high water mark of 62 00:04:10.979 --> 00:04:15.580 personalization and micro segmenting. You know, you reference the personalization it you don't 63 00:04:15.580 --> 00:04:19.300 have to deal too far to see evidence of, you know, consumer annoyance 64 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:26.529 at minimum and perhaps even consumer backlash at what some people call surveillance marketing. 65 00:04:26.569 --> 00:04:31.009 are familiar with that term, so they haven't quite heart it put exactly that 66 00:04:31.129 --> 00:04:34.290 way, but unpack that a little bit. If for folks who haven't heard 67 00:04:34.329 --> 00:04:41.480 surveillance marketing, it's just it's the fact that our systems are tracking data about 68 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:45.680 US constantly. We are constantly under surveillance. At least it used to be 69 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:47.800 when we're just on the computer. Now it's whenever we're carrying our phone. 70 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.759 And now do you have? You Have Alexa in your house? I do 71 00:04:53.029 --> 00:04:57.110 not, but I have a Google home speaker, so now it's even you. 72 00:04:57.550 --> 00:05:00.149 We were not on the screen, we're just talking. We're being surveiled 73 00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:04.589 and people are becoming aware of this and then they noticed it when it intrudes 74 00:05:04.629 --> 00:05:09.819 into marketing. And I think just about everybody I know has a story of 75 00:05:10.060 --> 00:05:14.699 surveillance marketing or personalization gone wrong. Do you have one of these? Like 76 00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:17.740 annoying? I was sitting. I was sitting in an airport and struck up 77 00:05:17.740 --> 00:05:21.689 a conversation while I was waiting for a flight at the restaurant in the airport 78 00:05:23.129 --> 00:05:26.449 and the gentleman I was talking to I mentioned, Hey, I'm in marketing. 79 00:05:26.490 --> 00:05:29.370 I work for a podcast agency forget what he does. It, think 80 00:05:29.490 --> 00:05:31.930 some sort of some sort of sales, and we got to talk about marketing, 81 00:05:32.129 --> 00:05:35.079 naturally, because that's where it kind of goes, and he mentioned, 82 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:40.839 you know, I started seeing these ads for a new FO hundred fifty four 83 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.639 pickup truck. I had not touched Google, I had not typed in anything, 84 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.879 and he said then I thought about it. Well, we've had an 85 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.110 Amazon Echo in our house for a couple of weeks, right, and he 86 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:55.230 was like looking back over his shoulder as he told this story. Exactly. 87 00:05:55.509 --> 00:05:58.509 For me it's Hawaiian shirts. I searched for that once. I bought one 88 00:05:58.709 --> 00:06:01.269 three or four years ago. Those ads still follow me. I get ads 89 00:06:01.350 --> 00:06:04.500 for compression socks. My wife has had a store foot like you know. 90 00:06:04.579 --> 00:06:08.699 How do they connected? No doubt through my family's IP address. So you 91 00:06:08.740 --> 00:06:11.620 know, we all have the innecdotal stories, but your roll them up, 92 00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:14.939 you see. You know, I saw a study recently over seventy five percent 93 00:06:14.980 --> 00:06:19.170 of consumers think that most forms of add personalization are at least somewhat creepy. 94 00:06:19.850 --> 00:06:26.209 And it's not just that we find that. Increasingly we are expressing that it's 95 00:06:26.569 --> 00:06:29.689 anytime this goes wrong. What does the first person thing people do. You 96 00:06:29.810 --> 00:06:30.930 take to social media and say, I can't believe it, I just got 97 00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:34.120 this this in this you know the survey that I said that I saw USAID 98 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.040 about ten to twenty percent of people reporting on social media on this happened. 99 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:42.240 So it's not just that the ads don't work. Consumers increasingly calling brands out 100 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:46.240 for getting this balance wrong. And then the other way that the consumers are 101 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:51.470 expressing their dislike of these tactics is through legislation right in Europe. Europe moved 102 00:06:51.550 --> 00:06:55.910 first with GDP are, which almost all of your audience will be familiar with, 103 00:06:56.269 --> 00:07:00.709 and now coming online is the California Consumer Protection of acts. So you 104 00:07:00.790 --> 00:07:04.060 know, Gd prouts becoming legislative, which is going to increase cost for doing 105 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:08.139 this, reducing the scope in the data we can use. And again one 106 00:07:08.180 --> 00:07:11.139 of three or four reasons why I think we are at that high water mark 107 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:15.129 of personalization and microsegmentation. One of the things that was interesting I saw in 108 00:07:15.250 --> 00:07:18.410 some of the data you sided it as we were going back and forth before 109 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:21.730 this episode, Andrew, was that, you know, we talked about the 110 00:07:23.209 --> 00:07:29.810 push back from from, I'm buyers Gartner looking at a personalization there there may 111 00:07:29.850 --> 00:07:32.240 be an end to the way that we've been we've been trending, as you 112 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.959 mentioned, a high water mark, but still a lot of marketers are saying, 113 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:42.279 they're saying at least, that personalization is leading to results, it is 114 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:46.470 driving positive impact. Why is there some of that disconnect in the space right 115 00:07:46.470 --> 00:07:49.470 now? Do you think sure? Well, two things. First of all, 116 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:54.670 relevance is good. There's no disputing that. Right when we get, 117 00:07:54.829 --> 00:07:59.819 for example, an advertisement for an ink tone or cartridge for our printer and 118 00:07:59.899 --> 00:08:03.060 we're about empty like that's a good thing. So I think being relevant is 119 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:05.860 good. Being target is going to good. We're not going to retreat from 120 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:09.459 that again. My my my assertion is that we've reached kind of the high 121 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:13.850 water mark right, and so that instead of being able to go a lot 122 00:08:13.889 --> 00:08:20.050 further, the Roi of additional investment in personalization, of micro segmenting, is 123 00:08:20.930 --> 00:08:24.290 on the decline. It's going to be going down and therefore it's really a 124 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:31.000 rebalancing rather than a retreat, with more emphasis, more investment and more Roi, 125 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:37.159 frankly, from marketers investing in creative in content, in brand in storytelling. 126 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.830 So it's a rebalancing, not a retreat. But but I will, 127 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:45.190 I will share that when I, you know, was doing some background research 128 00:08:45.309 --> 00:08:48.909 on this and digging into some of the reports. For example, I don't 129 00:08:48.909 --> 00:08:52.350 know if you're familiar with the the ever gage state of personalization. You know 130 00:08:52.389 --> 00:08:56.220 there are a Martech vender or successful. Their yearly stats have become, you 131 00:08:56.259 --> 00:09:01.179 know, something of a go to. You dig into that and even though 132 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.740 just about everyone says they're doing personalization, only about thirty percent feel that they're 133 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:09.940 doing right. According to the last year, only thirteen percent feel, quote, 134 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:13.809 very confident about their strategy. And then when you look at the lift 135 00:09:13.610 --> 00:09:18.970 chart, the biggest one that those common answer is one to ten percent lift. 136 00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:24.289 That's not a whole lot of lift for something that we've been going at 137 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.279 for over twenty years and talking about throwing even more tech at ai and machine 138 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.519 learning and and all those sorts of things. Right, exactly, exactly. 139 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:35.039 So again, not that we're retreating. Targeting relevance is good. It's just 140 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.110 that we're kind of it's going to get harder to squeeze more blood from this 141 00:09:39.190 --> 00:09:43.389 stone logan. Yeah, I love that. So, Andrew, you talked 142 00:09:43.389 --> 00:09:46.710 a little bit about not retreating away from here, but taking the level of 143 00:09:48.070 --> 00:09:52.700 personalization that we can do. That allows us for good targeting and relevant messages, 144 00:09:54.259 --> 00:10:00.460 and what you're advocating for is then using that to to bolster our creative 145 00:10:00.820 --> 00:10:07.330 so that it is we lean into better, better storytelling that are targeted and 146 00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:11.450 relevant, but not down to the one to one level necessarily. Tell us 147 00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:13.370 a little bit about that balance and kind of what that looks like and maybe 148 00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:16.929 where you've seen it done well recently. Sure. Well, I think first 149 00:10:16.929 --> 00:10:22.240 of all, let's remember that creative has always mattered, right. I mean 150 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:26.440 in the last let's in a little over two decades, we've gotten so focused 151 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.240 on data driven marketing and that was that was good. You know, when 152 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.559 the world started going digital, all of a sudden markers had data. We 153 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:35.950 were no longer stuck in that old world of you know, I know half 154 00:10:35.029 --> 00:10:39.029 by marketing is wasted, just not which half you know. So so that's 155 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:43.990 all good and we've been pursuing that. But creative is always mattered. If 156 00:10:43.029 --> 00:10:46.509 you think about what has impact, what ads have impact on you, like, 157 00:10:46.590 --> 00:10:50.059 if you want to, if can you remember any advertising that's Logan that 158 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:54.220 just kind of naturally you remember and had an impact on you off the top 159 00:10:54.259 --> 00:10:58.620 of your head man, that's a that's a really good question, you know, 160 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:03.659 actually one that I have cited offline chatting with people that I it didn't 161 00:11:03.700 --> 00:11:05.690 necessarily have a huge impact on me, but I thought it that it was 162 00:11:05.850 --> 00:11:11.049 really well done because it spoke to the realities that I know are true as 163 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:16.690 a parent. So it was actually the local children's hospital or the Children's hospital 164 00:11:16.769 --> 00:11:20.480 network here in Colorado, and it cut from child to child and said I 165 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.679 need a smaller needle, I need you know this and that, and it 166 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:31.639 spoke about the nuances of hospital care for children versus adults. We're not the 167 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.149 same as adults, and all these kids kept saying it in different ways and 168 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:37.990 that just really resonated with me as a parent and those are the sorts of 169 00:11:39.029 --> 00:11:43.029 things that when I'm thinking about okay, unfortunately, when we have to go 170 00:11:43.149 --> 00:11:46.470 for medical care, especially for the kids, it's it's stressful. It's even 171 00:11:46.470 --> 00:11:48.820 more stressful right now. This was pretty covid and everything, and I still 172 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:54.980 thought and they really spoke to the situation that I know to be true now. 173 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:58.659 They didn't say hey, your nine year old daughter's name is that a 174 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:01.809 Dada? I didn't become creepy, but it was relevant, it was a 175 00:12:01.929 --> 00:12:05.090 good storytelling, and so to me that's kind of an example of, I 176 00:12:05.409 --> 00:12:09.210 think, what you're talking about hearing. Yeah, that might be the best 177 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:13.250 example actually that I've had in these conversations. It was that story, it 178 00:12:13.409 --> 00:12:18.919 was the creative the images of the children resonated with you, and that's exactly 179 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.279 the point. No one remembers some highly personalized add right. You remember the 180 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.080 ads that have great creative storytelling, things like that. Now, that's always 181 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.389 been true, but it's even true, you know, in the digital age. 182 00:12:30.429 --> 00:12:33.950 I saw a facebook marketing science as Webbin our last month when they were 183 00:12:33.990 --> 00:12:39.509 talking about these topics and they cited Nielsen research that even for online and mobile 184 00:12:39.549 --> 00:12:46.740 ads, fifty six percent of add performance was respased on the creative not some 185 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:50.659 are getting not channel, things like that. So it's always been true. 186 00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:54.059 It's even more true now, and I think one thing that's happening is that 187 00:12:54.100 --> 00:13:00.769 a really interesting development is so, after so many years of Martech focusing on 188 00:13:01.090 --> 00:13:07.250 targeting, personalization data, we now see personal as it Marteg, focusing on 189 00:13:07.610 --> 00:13:09.809 the creative side. So you mentioned one time, you know, kind of 190 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:13.720 targeting it things like that. Now that we've got, you know, all 191 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:18.919 this online data. How can we use that to better test creative concepts, 192 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.559 to figure out that and get data driven insight into the creative process, which 193 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.750 is pretty new. And the other interesting sort of way, you know Mar 194 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.429 Tech is starting to impact the creative side of the house is to help creative 195 00:13:33.429 --> 00:13:41.110 teams meet this surge in demand for content that was created by online channels, 196 00:13:41.389 --> 00:13:46.259 by the need to come up with fifteen different versions of a creative for different 197 00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:50.860 segments, versions for testing, versions for localization, different sizes for online adds. 198 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:56.370 This put a mountain of content demand on the creative team that we work 199 00:13:56.409 --> 00:14:01.490 with and really I think was one reason why quality. How could you match 200 00:14:01.529 --> 00:14:03.730 the quality level? And you're trying to do all that? So that's that's 201 00:14:03.769 --> 00:14:07.090 that's why you get this kind of digital sameness feel right. Well, now 202 00:14:07.129 --> 00:14:11.279 now technology is getting the point where, if you think about that add campaign, 203 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.480 you really have got one core creative concept and then the other ninety nine 204 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:20.399 variations. They're like five percent different, size, slightly different, maybe one 205 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.549 thing is changed for a test. Those are limited enough creative dimensions that automation 206 00:14:24.629 --> 00:14:30.509 can start to help. So now we've starting to develop tools for creative automation 207 00:14:30.950 --> 00:14:37.990 that take care of that portfolio of tweaks that are needed to creatives and allowing 208 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:43.899 a that that that surging demand to be met, but without completely knackering our 209 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:52.100 creative teams and leaving them room to focus on storytelling great creative like that children's 210 00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:54.330 hospital ad that you mentioned. Yeah, that's a really great way to put 211 00:14:54.370 --> 00:14:58.850 it, Andrew. If we think about this for marketing teams that are hearing 212 00:14:58.889 --> 00:15:01.889 this and they say, okay, based on this example, this really makes 213 00:15:01.889 --> 00:15:07.519 sense. Now what what can we start to do to basically follow this framework 214 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:13.320 of okay, we know the demographic we know the target that we're going after, 215 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.200 we understand the story that we want to tell. We want to create 216 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.470 a something that ninety percent of which is going to stay the same, but 217 00:15:20.549 --> 00:15:26.110 there's a five to ten percent variants. Where do you suggest teams that don't 218 00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:30.629 necessarily have the tech in place to kind of automate all of that, but 219 00:15:30.870 --> 00:15:33.590 how did they build a framework of these are the five things that we need 220 00:15:33.629 --> 00:15:37.740 to think about of the five to ten percent variable that we might change in 221 00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:43.179 maybe ten different iterations here, so that they're following this framework of not trying 222 00:15:43.220 --> 00:15:48.940 to change everything. Their creative team really focuses on telling a core great story, 223 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:56.330 but then they are able to apply the automation and the the AB testing 224 00:15:56.409 --> 00:16:02.009 to the different aspects in a way that is actually efficient and doesn't have to 225 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:04.360 go back to the drawing board every time. Yeah, that's a really interesting 226 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.399 question, Logan and and I think that's still getting figured out, but I've 227 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.919 I'll share two observations from what I've seen. The first is some of binders, 228 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.309 customers her are doing well here, have put a lot of the burden 229 00:16:18.549 --> 00:16:26.549 of creating versions in the more downstream consumers of the content. So, for 230 00:16:26.669 --> 00:16:32.149 example, the digital teams, the social media advertising teams are more responsible for 231 00:16:32.350 --> 00:16:37.379 making those numer vernuess variations. They're not putting that burden on the core creative 232 00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:41.539 team. So that's one kind of organizational dimension. And then I think the 233 00:16:41.659 --> 00:16:45.299 other one is now that we've got platforms, you know, with like such 234 00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:48.570 as you know social media, you know facebook, their ad platforms, allow 235 00:16:49.649 --> 00:16:56.690 the data about creative performance too much more steamlessly flow upstream and to maybe allow 236 00:16:57.690 --> 00:17:03.240 some overall testing to look at what are the aspects of creative that actually have 237 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.079 the most room to impact performance. So, in other words, maybe we 238 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:12.319 can use the social media platforms, the online plat AD platforms, to help 239 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:17.950 us understand what are the two out of the ten variables we can work on 240 00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:25.269 that really move the needle from a creative resonance perspective. Yeah, are in 241 00:17:25.430 --> 00:17:27.549 the customers that you work with and the other marketing teams you talk to, 242 00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:33.619 Andrew, are there any recurring themes that you see in this this lever, 243 00:17:33.859 --> 00:17:38.740 this variable more often is having a bigger effect when we pull this lever versus 244 00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:44.019 this one, meaning, you know, location targeting, this type of variable 245 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:48.410 in the creative are you seeing any trends there right now? I think one 246 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:55.170 trend just might be on an increasing focus on video. Right. So overall 247 00:17:55.490 --> 00:18:00.079 add spend, video is the fastest growing part of online ad spend and it 248 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:07.319 seems that that is a better place to invest storytelling and brand right as well. 249 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.200 As you still got to be able to vary that. That's very important. 250 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:12.390 But if you just think of the nature, how much of a story 251 00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:18.109 can you tell with static adds versus video? So we see more attention being 252 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:22.430 paid to create, to video as a medium, as a content type. 253 00:18:22.789 --> 00:18:26.190 So not quite the same as what you ask as far as kind of which 254 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:27.539 of these dimensions, but that that's just one thing that kind of jumps out 255 00:18:27.579 --> 00:18:33.700 as the growing importance of video, and it's one because that's consumers prefer it, 256 00:18:33.859 --> 00:18:37.500 but it's also, I think, a medium that better supports quality, 257 00:18:37.579 --> 00:18:41.049 creative, quality content. It's got a higher bar, if you will. 258 00:18:41.529 --> 00:18:47.450 Yeah, absolutely, and changing up some of those variables in a different call 259 00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:52.009 to action or a different opening, if you have the again, the ninety 260 00:18:52.089 --> 00:18:56.240 percent, that isn't going to change in that video. Again, the downstream 261 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:02.799 digital and social teams that have some video capabilities can play around with that as 262 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.680 as they take the core of what the creative team has has provided. So 263 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:11.750 I think it fits into that that organizational recommendation that you were backing earlier and 264 00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:14.950 it's something we're playing with, playing around with right now. We've started to 265 00:19:15.029 --> 00:19:19.190 do a lot more video con tent both organically but also in paid social so, 266 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:22.710 for instance, with this show be to be growth, we will take 267 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:26.539 a twenty twond to two minute clip of the the punchiest segment and use that 268 00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:32.660 as organic linkedin content through our evangelists here on the team on Linkedin. But 269 00:19:32.980 --> 00:19:37.859 we're also doing is, you know, retargeting folks that have hit our site 270 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:44.690 or fit a our audience on facebook and using those short video clips to promote 271 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:48.369 the podcast, so that we're using those ads to drive people to our pillar 272 00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:52.849 piece of content and playing with a few variables there. So that's kind of 273 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.279 how it's playing playing out for us here as we finishes as a small team, 274 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.839 based on what you're talking about. Andrew. Yeah, that's that's neat 275 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.279 and you guys do it really well. You've touched on, I think, 276 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.069 one actually additional dimension that I think really interesting. I think might be worth 277 00:20:07.109 --> 00:20:11.950 the audience kind of hearing about as they as they think through where they'll be 278 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:14.630 making investments in coming years. And so you touched on, you know, 279 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:18.349 facebook as the platform that you're steering video down to. And I think the 280 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:22.619 fourth kind of interesting thing about this, you know, have we meet reach 281 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:27.380 a high water mark and investment in personalization, in microsecmenting, is the role 282 00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:34.970 being played by the online duopoly of Google and facebook right they they're responsible for 283 00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:40.170 such a large amount of the add traffic. Now would be to be audience 284 00:20:40.170 --> 00:20:41.730 as Linkedin's part of their also, and I think you could argue Amazon for 285 00:20:41.809 --> 00:20:45.250 some product selling. But I think at the end of the day, when 286 00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:51.759 you look forward that unless a business is the scale of a Walmart or a 287 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.519 capital one, Google and facebook are going to be doing the majority of the 288 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:03.440 heavy lifting when it comes to really targeting and personalizing these ads. They've got 289 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.069 the data, a scary amount of data on all consumers. They have the 290 00:21:07.150 --> 00:21:15.589 data scientists and the algorithms and increasingly they're flexing their muscles over the AD tech 291 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:19.099 value chain. Right you can no longer with video ads. You can't have 292 00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:23.700 dynamic add assembly, which is something that third party add tech vendors can do 293 00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:26.819 for static images, but as video grows they're not allowed to do that. 294 00:21:27.819 --> 00:21:33.130 Google getting rid of, you know, a third party cookies is another example. 295 00:21:33.049 --> 00:21:40.210 So you're wise to be using linkedin facebook and I think increasingly they'll be 296 00:21:40.250 --> 00:21:42.369 able to do a lot of this for marketers. It will not make sense 297 00:21:42.609 --> 00:21:48.319 for marketers to slice their target segments into a thousand little micro segments and try 298 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.279 to find those twenty individuals across social media that fit each of the segments. 299 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.240 Performance is much better. Let Google figure it out, let facebook figure it 300 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:03.029 out and increasingly I think you see the lift is better when these platforms are 301 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:08.109 given maximum latitude, define the right sort of targets. Interesting. It's really 302 00:22:08.269 --> 00:22:14.430 interesting take there and drew, I love the way that you've kind of unpacked 303 00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:18.259 the data that you've looked at, both from, you know, the analyst 304 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:21.779 side, the buyer side, the brand side. You know, we started 305 00:22:21.859 --> 00:22:26.740 there and talking about some tweaks that marketers can make, both organizationally and the 306 00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:30.849 way that they approach their creative and then finally, you know, who do 307 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:33.930 you let do the targeting? How do you how do you actually go out 308 00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:37.450 and test that? So to me we've kind of brought it full circle there. 309 00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:41.809 If there's anything else that that you'd like to share with listeners today that 310 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:45.359 that you think would would help them as they as they take this and think, 311 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.440 okay, what can we do this week? What can we do next 312 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.240 week, as we take what's been shared today? Any final thoughts for folks? 313 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:59.230 Well, ironically, coming from a Martech person, I think just don't 314 00:22:59.309 --> 00:23:03.509 believe the hype right when it comes to you know, marketing vendors. We 315 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:07.190 create a lot of momentum around you know, technology and what can be done, 316 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:08.910 but just you got to keep it where, you know, keep that 317 00:23:10.589 --> 00:23:14.259 over here and think hard about your own business, about building your own brand 318 00:23:14.299 --> 00:23:18.099 and don't get caught up in fear of missing out. I think is one 319 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:22.819 thing that I try to do for myself at least. And then another little 320 00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:26.890 interesting thing to keep in mind that maybe some guidance around personalization, microtargeting, 321 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:30.609 and I don't know where I heard this. I'd love to attribute this, 322 00:23:30.809 --> 00:23:33.569 but just think to yourself, what's the experience you're looking for when you walk 323 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:38.289 into a cornal store and you know that neighborhood store that knows you? What's 324 00:23:38.289 --> 00:23:41.960 the experience that's good versus creepy with them? And that's usually a pretty good 325 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:48.119 yard stick to use when thinking through. You know which amount of personalizations you 326 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.839 we do, because clearly consumers have told us what we can do is not 327 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.150 always what we should do. I love that. That that's great advice. 328 00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:59.630 It's great parenting advice. That's great marketing advice. Right there, Andrew, 329 00:23:59.630 --> 00:24:02.869 a solid note to end the show on today. Well, thank you so 330 00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:04.990 much for being our guest, Andrew. If anybody listening to this would like 331 00:24:06.069 --> 00:24:08.589 to ask some follow up questions on the topic today or just stay connected with 332 00:24:08.750 --> 00:24:12.099 you as a fellow be tob marketing. That what's the best way for them 333 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:15.619 to reach out? Well, it's always easy to find me at Andrew J 334 00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:21.059 holly h all I on twitter. You can follow us on the bindercom blog 335 00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:23.769 as well, and then love connecting on Linkedin. I love it, Andrew. 336 00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:27.329 Thank you so much for being on the show today. Here's to hoping 337 00:24:27.849 --> 00:24:33.009 some of those worthwhile hobbies get get some more time in the weeks ahead. 338 00:24:33.009 --> 00:24:37.569 Man. Thanks, Kinley. Logan. Is the decisionmaker for your product or 339 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:41.759 service a bebb marketer? Are you looking to reach those buyers through the medium 340 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:48.000 of podcasting? Consider becoming a cohost of BB growth. This show is consistently 341 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.069 ranked as a top one hundred podcast in the marketing category of Apple Podcasts, 342 00:24:52.349 --> 00:24:56.349 and the show gets more than a hundred and thirty thousand downloads each month. 343 00:24:56.869 --> 00:25:00.430 We've already done the work of building the audience, so you can focus on 344 00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:07.069 delivering incredible content to our listeners. If you're interested, email logan at sweet 345 00:25:07.069 --> 00:25:07.980 fish mediacom.
