1359: How to Negotiate with Confidence w/ John Barrows

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:08.269 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.310 --> 00:00:12.470 I'm joined today by John Barrels. He's the CEO of Jab sales training. 3 00:00:12.710 --> 00:00:15.550 If you don't know him, you obviously should. John, welcome back to 4 00:00:15.589 --> 00:00:18.550 the show man. How you doing today? I'm doing fantastic. Logan. 5 00:00:18.589 --> 00:00:21.429 How you doing then? I'm doing all right. How's your fantasy football team 6 00:00:21.460 --> 00:00:24.059 doing? By the way, you know, I gave up on fantasy a 7 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:27.620 while back, man, because I was traveling too much and I was finding 8 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:31.019 myself waking up on Sunday mornings and be like, Oh, auto draft, 9 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:33.979 you know, like whatever, and auto set the schedule and there was just 10 00:00:34.100 --> 00:00:36.810 too many other stresses in my life and I sucked at it anyway. So 11 00:00:37.049 --> 00:00:39.729 I've given up. Now that I'm home, though, now that I'm like 12 00:00:40.170 --> 00:00:44.369 not traveling as much, next season I might, I might get back into 13 00:00:44.409 --> 00:00:47.450 the game, but right now I'm just focus on my paths. That's about 14 00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:50.880 it. Yeah, I hear a man. You know, I did you 15 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.560 the courtesy when I was on your podcast here recently. I didn't wear the 16 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:56.560 broncos hat, but I had to wear it today. I have enough got 17 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:00.240 Denver and New England coming up this weekend, hopefully. Yeah, yeah, 18 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.989 we'll see. We'll see. Well, John, pretty much everybody listening this 19 00:01:04.069 --> 00:01:07.510 show is going to know who you are, but for those who don't, 20 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:10.150 give us the thirty second bioh. What do you guys up to over at 21 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.269 JAB sales these days? Yeah, we do sales tress. So I've been 22 00:01:12.310 --> 00:01:15.909 doing this now for about ten years. I've been in sales my entire life. 23 00:01:15.510 --> 00:01:19.459 Kind of fell in into it. Fell into it like everybody else, 24 00:01:19.659 --> 00:01:23.019 and started a company. Took this training and loved it and then sold my 25 00:01:23.060 --> 00:01:27.459 company too staples. Then joined the company we used to be called Bas show, 26 00:01:27.739 --> 00:01:30.099 not because I wanted to be at trainer, but they had a really 27 00:01:30.140 --> 00:01:34.769 unique model of trainers had to sell. So it wasn't just like you trained, 28 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:36.930 you know, like the old school trainers. It just don't know what 29 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:38.849 I can do what they're do. So I joined them and then they screwed 30 00:01:38.890 --> 00:01:42.409 it up and I took it over and started JB sales and now we work 31 00:01:42.489 --> 00:01:46.450 with some of the fastest going tech companies out there like sales force, Linkedin 32 00:01:46.530 --> 00:01:49.319 box, dropbox, slack, Google, OCTA, like a lot of the 33 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:55.599 fast growing text ass companies, just teaching them techniques training, you know, 34 00:01:55.799 --> 00:02:00.200 usually very, very tactical things. We're not like consultants, where let's get 35 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:01.709 our hands dirty here and get to work. So that's kind of what we're 36 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:06.069 having fun with these days. Yeah, I love that, man. There's 37 00:02:06.109 --> 00:02:08.590 nothing more boring or more just like do I really have to do this, 38 00:02:08.710 --> 00:02:14.310 sitting through a sales training with somebody man, woman, child, whatever it 39 00:02:14.389 --> 00:02:17.539 is, anybody who hasn't sold in the last decade. It's like come on. 40 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:21.180 So I love, love the way you guys, you guys approach it, 41 00:02:21.219 --> 00:02:24.819 between you and Morgan and the growing team over there right now. So 42 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:29.219 today, John, we're going to be talking about negotiation, which I think 43 00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:32.090 is just one of the critical factors. I mean, as I've dug into 44 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:36.250 this, you know, I read never split the difference twice over the past 45 00:02:36.330 --> 00:02:39.090 year and you know, I feel like that taught me a ton when it 46 00:02:39.210 --> 00:02:43.849 comes to not just sales but life. And so maybe there's a broader conversation 47 00:02:43.969 --> 00:02:46.639 there. But you, you kind of made me want to dig into this 48 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.560 with you the other day because you posted on Linkedin a situation where you guys 49 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:54.719 realized our crap. We negotiated with our self here. Let's kick it off 50 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:58.669 with that story and kind of what you guys learned and then we'll go from 51 00:02:58.669 --> 00:03:01.189 there. Yeah, it was a I mean look, yeah, I think 52 00:03:01.469 --> 00:03:05.110 to your point, life is negotiations, right. I mean you think about 53 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:07.389 it with your wife, you kid, you know, you doesn't like you're 54 00:03:07.430 --> 00:03:09.069 always negotiating in some way, shape or form. And I think a lot 55 00:03:09.110 --> 00:03:14.419 of people have a misconception of negotiating as it's about the deal, right. 56 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:19.340 It's like we're negotiating for this deal or this price. And if you if 57 00:03:19.460 --> 00:03:21.860 that's the way you think of negotiation, you've already lost. I mean, 58 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:23.979 Chris Voss says in his book the most dangerous negotiation you're ever going to be 59 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:28.210 in as the one you don't know you're in right when, for me that's 60 00:03:28.210 --> 00:03:30.289 a coal call, like when somebody picks up the phone, we are negotiating 61 00:03:30.370 --> 00:03:34.289 like like I'm trying to get information from you. You're trying to either get 62 00:03:34.289 --> 00:03:38.610 off the phone with me or get information from me, and so but you 63 00:03:38.689 --> 00:03:40.840 know, we get lazy every once in a while and that's what I did, 64 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:46.000 unfortunately, recently. So I don't want to name the company. It's 65 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:53.240 a huge logo, I mean huge one that anybody listening on this call would 66 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:57.270 die, and I to have and I've been working on them for three years. 67 00:03:57.469 --> 00:04:00.030 I've been prospecting in and trying every angle I could get into work in 68 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:03.430 my connections. Right. So finally, and I think all that built up 69 00:04:03.430 --> 00:04:08.229 to this inbound lead right, and it was because somebody from another client of 70 00:04:08.310 --> 00:04:12.500 mine moved over there and they are John, we are now going verticalized, 71 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:16.459 we are now going subvertical. We need your training like done right. So 72 00:04:17.139 --> 00:04:20.740 there was a familiarity there. So I think that's what led to the laziness, 73 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:25.769 because I actually it wasn't me who is doing the negotiations, my director, 74 00:04:25.810 --> 00:04:28.970 customer success. She actually got on and then she said, okay, 75 00:04:29.050 --> 00:04:30.490 this is what they're looking for and she called me and she said, all 76 00:04:30.490 --> 00:04:35.329 right, what's up? And we, I mean we build, like you 77 00:04:35.410 --> 00:04:39.519 know, our training is fifteen grand three sessions. We try to put thirty 78 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:42.319 people in it, right. We try to cap it at thirty people because, 79 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.800 like we do engagement and homework assignments and that type of stuff. So 80 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:50.040 if it's forty, fifty, hundred people, it's just not possible to get 81 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:53.870 to all those people. Right. So the reason we pack it that way. 82 00:04:54.189 --> 00:04:57.509 But they had like a hundred and fifty people, and so we were 83 00:04:57.550 --> 00:05:00.389 like well, and and Meg, my director cusomer sex, told me that. 84 00:05:00.509 --> 00:05:02.709 She was like look, you know, they really want to put as 85 00:05:02.709 --> 00:05:05.589 many people through it as they can. But I told him about these things. 86 00:05:05.709 --> 00:05:11.259 So we got flexible and what we did was we allowed him to go 87 00:05:11.459 --> 00:05:15.220 more right. So and so it's called a hundred people, right, that 88 00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:18.300 should have been whereas a hundred fifty people. That should have been five sessions 89 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:24.410 for us. Okay, at rate card. But I was like logo, 90 00:05:24.889 --> 00:05:28.009 like let's make this because she already knows us, so she already knows our 91 00:05:28.050 --> 00:05:30.490 pricing, right, so let's make this easy for them to just pop and 92 00:05:30.529 --> 00:05:33.410 let's get rolling on this, because it sounded like they wanted to move forward 93 00:05:33.410 --> 00:05:39.240 fast, right, and sure it. We sent it over where was like 94 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:42.839 four, instead of five sessions, three sessions, and instead of thirty people 95 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:46.040 percession, fifty people possession. And we said to him look, and we 96 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:46.759 even mapped it out. We said, Hey, look, this is what 97 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.269 we would typically charge, but because of the potential long term relationship here, 98 00:05:50.310 --> 00:05:54.509 Blah Blah Blah. They didn't ask for a discount. They didn't you know 99 00:05:54.589 --> 00:05:57.629 what I mean, like and and, but I thought I was being cool 100 00:05:57.990 --> 00:06:00.029 and just try and I and it was more be being lazy, right, 101 00:06:00.189 --> 00:06:02.990 because I because I was just trying to get this thing done, because I've 102 00:06:02.990 --> 00:06:06.980 been working for three years on this deal and you know, we mapped it 103 00:06:08.019 --> 00:06:11.620 all out. She sent a great email that showed the kind of discount breakdown 104 00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:14.699 and all this other stuff, and the woman said, you know, she 105 00:06:14.779 --> 00:06:16.980 got back to us. She said, John or Meg, we brought this 106 00:06:17.139 --> 00:06:23.569 to finance. MMMMM, and they want you to sharpen your pencil. and 107 00:06:24.490 --> 00:06:27.410 that was the email, like they wanted you to sharpen your pencil. And 108 00:06:27.449 --> 00:06:30.370 I'm sitting in so men calls me back and she's and she sends me that 109 00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:33.680 email and I'm like, Gosh, son of a I'm like, we already 110 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:38.120 sharpened our pencil. So now we're in a position now where I'm not going 111 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.120 to go any lower, you know what I mean, like that was as 112 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:42.399 low as I was going to go. That was my final pre that was 113 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.240 my best and final. So now we got to figure out a way to 114 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:49.269 to work with them and work with my champion now to keep that price where 115 00:06:49.269 --> 00:06:53.310 it is and talk to finance about we've already you know what I mean. 116 00:06:53.470 --> 00:06:55.870 So now we're in this. I mean we're still going to get it, 117 00:06:55.949 --> 00:07:00.550 don't get me wrong, but I probably left thirty grand on the table and 118 00:07:00.949 --> 00:07:03.779 and I put myself in a in a weaker position from a negotiation standpoint, 119 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:06.699 because I negotiate with myself, you know what I mean, like yeah, 120 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:10.300 and reps do that all the time and I used to do that all the 121 00:07:10.379 --> 00:07:14.899 time and every once in a while I fall back into it because I don't 122 00:07:14.899 --> 00:07:18.889 know if it comes with from the confidence of your pricing or just like knowing 123 00:07:18.930 --> 00:07:23.850 every time price comes up. Most of the times we've conditioned prospects to beat 124 00:07:23.889 --> 00:07:27.850 US UP ON PRICE. And especially in the SASS world, everybody knows there's 125 00:07:27.889 --> 00:07:30.160 margin, you know. I mean a one extra license is really going to 126 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.360 cost one five hundred dollars. Like, shut up, you'd it doesn't cost 127 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:36.040 you a dime more to put one license on. So that's how I know 128 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:42.399 I can beat you up right. So we've conditioned these prospects to expect discounting. 129 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.269 I don't know a lot of companies that are work with they actually baked 130 00:07:45.269 --> 00:07:48.430 discounting into their pricing model. They assume a ten percent, twenty percent discount, 131 00:07:48.430 --> 00:07:51.230 which is why they build it in that way. And so because of 132 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:56.550 that there's this lack of confidence because, look, it's funny to me, 133 00:07:56.670 --> 00:08:01.220 like when something's twenty to say something's Twentyzero. Right, when somebody asks John, 134 00:08:01.300 --> 00:08:05.779 how much is this? The answer should be Twentyzeros, but it's never 135 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:09.899 twenty Geez. You like would ask, like how much is is? You 136 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:15.490 always hear, well, it's Twentyzero, but it really depends on and look, 137 00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:18.410 if I'm listening to that, if you're selling me and you and that's 138 00:08:18.449 --> 00:08:22.129 your answer to how much this is cost. Right, I might have been 139 00:08:22.170 --> 00:08:24.329 talking to your competition and I heard thirty grand, forty grand, whatever, 140 00:08:24.329 --> 00:08:28.439 and I heard twenty from you and I was like holy that's actually pretty reasonable. 141 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.399 Right, but as soon as the word but comes out of your mouth, 142 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:33.919 I'm not paying twenty grand anymore. You know what I mean? Like 143 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.360 you automatically open the door for a discount without, I mean, the a 144 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.389 lot of time, that confidence about how you deliver price. Yeah, it's 145 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:45.549 a long way talk to talk about that a little bit because, okay, 146 00:08:45.629 --> 00:08:48.509 you said kind of the pitfall for you guys here was, you know, 147 00:08:48.629 --> 00:08:52.029 you called it out we can get lazy and just think, Hey, I 148 00:08:52.149 --> 00:08:54.820 just want to get this deal done quickly and just dropping the price a little 149 00:08:54.820 --> 00:08:58.700 bit to show them, you know, a measure of good faith is going 150 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.580 to help me fast track this deal. But the other big one is a 151 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:05.500 lack of confidence. So, as your training reps you you you've evolved in 152 00:09:05.580 --> 00:09:09.460 the way that you present pricing. If the little things right, it's not 153 00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:13.009 necessarily it's the tone in which you say it. It's the little little words 154 00:09:13.090 --> 00:09:16.570 that you as a buyer. No, Ding Ding Ding, stuff is going 155 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:20.809 off in your head. So what are some of those things when you're talking 156 00:09:20.889 --> 00:09:24.320 pricing? Is it making sure it's not at the very end of the call? 157 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:26.399 It's it is making sure that you leave some silence. What are some 158 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.919 of those things that you're coaching reps on? When I deliver pricing, do 159 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:35.279 this, not that? Yeah, so, I mean, you know I'm 160 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.039 going to copy out all this with it depends on what you sell, right, 161 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.870 and and you know how complex the pricing model is, because sometimes it 162 00:09:41.029 --> 00:09:46.990 truly genuinely does depend right, but what you want to look. So there's 163 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:50.110 two kind of lot, three philosophies. I'm the third one. One is 164 00:09:50.590 --> 00:09:52.659 you don't talk price at all and you build value, value, value, 165 00:09:52.700 --> 00:09:56.860 value, so when you hit price you can justify it. Right. The 166 00:09:56.980 --> 00:10:01.019 other approach is you talk price early so you don't waste your time, right. 167 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:03.860 So, but then you lose out on potentially justifying why they should spend 168 00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:07.769 a little bit more. I'm a little bit more of the middle ground where 169 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:11.649 I kind of ballpark price early on just to get a sense of are we 170 00:10:11.730 --> 00:10:15.610 even close? And if we're close, then I go value, value, 171 00:10:15.649 --> 00:10:16.850 value, and then I justified. But a couple of things here. So, 172 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:20.600 for instance, I do the give get model on negotiations, which you've 173 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.799 taught me. All right, John, or price right, right, happy, 174 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:26.799 now for me. Look, I'm happy to share you some ballpark pricing 175 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:31.399 is on this initial discovery call right. Some people say no because it's again 176 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.919 too complex. We have to get to that later. But for me it's 177 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:35.190 like, okay, cool, well, happy to share with some pricing here. 178 00:10:35.590 --> 00:10:39.070 How many reps do you want to train? Do you want on site, 179 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:41.190 you want remote? Do you want online stuff? You know, and 180 00:10:41.269 --> 00:10:43.950 so I kind of talked about like what's your average deals? So I get 181 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:48.509 information from them and if they give me enough information, like if they're open 182 00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:52.740 to giving me some of that kind of qualification discovery information, then I'll usually 183 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.580 give them a pretty good ballpark. I'll say. You know what, based 184 00:10:56.620 --> 00:10:58.899 on that, you're probably in the range of, I don't know, thirty 185 00:10:58.980 --> 00:11:01.139 to Fortyzeros, give or take. And then what I used to do, 186 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:03.409 you brought it up, what I used to do is I would used to 187 00:11:03.450 --> 00:11:07.809 drop that price and then shut up right and because I was always taught when 188 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:09.850 I was a kid, you know, whoever speaks first loses in negotiations. 189 00:11:09.970 --> 00:11:13.769 Yeah, but I don't know if anybody's else try that out there. But 190 00:11:13.850 --> 00:11:16.250 that is the most awkward thing on the planet and it like it. I 191 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:20.279 remember I did that one time to a CFO and he knew exactly what I 192 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:22.879 was doing. So I was like, so it's going to be, you 193 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.960 know, if it was, this is when I was selling it services, 194 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.360 you know, that'll be FIVEZERO dollars a month. And I sat there dead 195 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.110 silent looking and it was this is a facetoface meeting too, and I said 196 00:11:33.149 --> 00:11:35.149 there and I just let it sit. And this I could just literally sat 197 00:11:35.269 --> 00:11:39.269 there. He just waited to know all he just want a smirk on his 198 00:11:39.389 --> 00:11:41.590 face. He was like, I know what you're doing, sales or up. 199 00:11:41.629 --> 00:11:43.990 So he just sat there, and I mean sat there, and if 200 00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:46.070 you've sat there for a minute in silence, I found that feels like a 201 00:11:46.179 --> 00:11:48.460 year. Right. So finally I was like, all right, fine, 202 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:52.659 I spoke first. You Win, right, but whatever. So instead of 203 00:11:52.779 --> 00:11:56.100 doing that, what I do is I'll say, look, it's probably around 204 00:11:56.139 --> 00:11:58.820 thirty to Fortyzero. Is that in the range of of what you'd expect to 205 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:01.210 pay for something like this? So that's my question. So I like that. 206 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:03.929 Yeah, thirty to forty grant. Is that in the range of something 207 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.529 you'd expect to pay for something like this? And if they as long as 208 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:11.370 they're like okay, you know, I mean yeah, it's probably be a 209 00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:15.799 little bit outside our range, but we're not way out. Because if you 210 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.320 because if I say thirty to forty and you were expecting five, let's I'm 211 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.120 not even gonna literally, I'm not even going to bother with this conversation. 212 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.159 I'm not like look, good luck. Yeah, which is why I I 213 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.269 don't go with that model of value, value, value, value, price. 214 00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:33.309 Not Right. I know I've literally been through a sales process where they 215 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:35.870 made me sit through two sales calls. Then I got the price and I'm 216 00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:37.870 like, we're not. They're like, exactly, I've done it too. 217 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:41.549 I'm we've all know. The REP was frustrated. I was frustrated, right. 218 00:12:41.990 --> 00:12:46.580 But something you said there, John, is that really intentional? That 219 00:12:46.059 --> 00:12:50.419 what you would expect to pay, as opposed to do you have this budgeted 220 00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:54.139 or how does that sound to you, or something like that? I I 221 00:12:54.259 --> 00:12:58.299 don't like. Well, so it's my style, right. I know, 222 00:12:58.419 --> 00:13:01.529 like Richard Harris. You know Richard like, he actually takes the more kind 223 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:05.610 of a how do you feel about that approach? Yeah, done that. 224 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:09.690 It works for him. I've it doesn't work for me. I've tried it. 225 00:13:09.889 --> 00:13:11.960 It just feels a little weird for me to ask that, like how 226 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.159 do you feel about that? But Richard it works because it plays with his 227 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:18.919 style. Right, mine is is that, you know. That's why I 228 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.600 say, is that something you'd expect to pay for something like this? There's 229 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.320 that the range of something like to pay for something like this, because I'm 230 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.629 there with you, like the in that, and that nuance matters, right, 231 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.950 of how you deliver it and how you engage and how you try to 232 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:35.309 get them to open up, because I'm right there with you. Like if 233 00:13:35.950 --> 00:13:39.509 I can't tell you how many times I've been in where the REP I've okay, 234 00:13:39.629 --> 00:13:41.179 you know, rep selling me something and I'm like okay, well, 235 00:13:41.259 --> 00:13:43.340 like, what's the range here? We even close? Well, you know, 236 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:46.340 John, and they bring me through their piece, get demo and all 237 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:48.340 that other stuff and then they pop. I'm like, Dude, you just 238 00:13:48.460 --> 00:13:52.340 wasted both of our times, like there's no chance I'm spending money like that 239 00:13:52.539 --> 00:13:54.700 on something like this. You know what I mean. I get half of 240 00:13:54.769 --> 00:13:58.210 that stuff for free anyways. So, yeah, I think you do have 241 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:01.250 to figure out that confidence level. But you also going back to the confidence 242 00:14:01.330 --> 00:14:07.730 piece. The way you build confidence is is a practice. This is why 243 00:14:07.889 --> 00:14:09.799 you know so, Morgan, here's a good example. Morgan, when he 244 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:15.360 came on board, he had to get confident in delivering the price for us, 245 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:16.720 right, because he had never sold what we sold and we sell a 246 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:22.440 service. So arguably, you could peel it back and be like John, 247 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:26.110 your hourly rate is five thousand dollars an hour, you out of your mind, 248 00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:28.629 you know what I mean. And and if you put it in context 249 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:30.710 like that, then it's like, oh my God, like the best lawyers 250 00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:33.190 in the world aren't five thousand dollars an hour. So holy it, maybe 251 00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:37.070 I'm really expensive. But if you put it in context of your ACV is 252 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.460 Fiftyzero and if I get you one extra deal, five thousand dollars. Like 253 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:43.700 you know what I mean, like I'm going to train thirty reps here, 254 00:14:43.700 --> 00:14:48.419 give each one of them one extra deal. Thirty Reps Times Fiftyzeros, like 255 00:14:48.820 --> 00:14:50.860 okay, fine, I'll take a percentage of your commissions. Then, how's 256 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:54.009 that right? And then they always yeah, yeah, exactly Morgan had to 257 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:58.169 do was we practice right. So we tear our accounts to your one, 258 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:01.250 tier two, tier three, and I don't think there's role playing, and 259 00:15:01.289 --> 00:15:05.289 I think role playings great, but I actually like to consciously practice on clients 260 00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:09.080 and give my like I gave Morgan the liberty. So are the baseline that 261 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.440 you could buy from us is twenty five hundred right, so for for ten 262 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.279 licenses of our online cont twenty five hundred bucks, and then it goes to 263 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:18.480 five grand and then fifteen and then up from there. So these twenty five 264 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:24.029 hundred dollars, I'm not saying I don't appreciate those customers. I obviously do, 265 00:15:24.590 --> 00:15:26.830 but I also don't worry if I lose them, in the sense that 266 00:15:26.950 --> 00:15:30.789 if I lose if I'm in on a call and they don't sign a move 267 00:15:30.789 --> 00:15:31.629 forward like a whatever. I'm moving on. I want to get that, 268 00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:35.269 you know, fifty grand, a hundred grand client. So what we did 269 00:15:35.350 --> 00:15:39.220 with Morgan we got a bunch of those twenty five hundred ones in his pipeline 270 00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:41.220 and and I told him, I want you to push, I want you 271 00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:46.299 to I want you to literally like start the conversation with, look at bare 272 00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:50.769 minimum here. We're talking twenty five hundred bucks and we don't discount, and 273 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:52.490 just see how it lands, you know what I mean. And he was 274 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:56.730 like super like I awkward about it up front, but then he got that 275 00:15:56.929 --> 00:16:00.450 confidence right to just because he kept practicing. And then all of a sudden 276 00:16:00.450 --> 00:16:03.009 a couple of clients were like yeah, that makes sense, you know what 277 00:16:03.049 --> 00:16:06.279 I mean. So he got those. There were a few, no question 278 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:07.799 that. We're like holy that that's way more expensive than I'd expect to do 279 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.600 some pace or something like this. Okay, you're probably not our customer anyways. 280 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.679 But then he got a couple. Okay, like I just right before 281 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.029 my system crash, before I got on this call with you. I was 282 00:16:18.110 --> 00:16:22.870 on a sales call and this guy came in, like referred by so and 283 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:26.269 so, and the pricing came up and without hesitation he's like so, what's 284 00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:27.149 he's like, I don't know. If you have to know more information. 285 00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:30.230 I got know what you're talking about. Fifteenzero, it goes all done, 286 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:34.100 you know what I mean. And it wasn't even like there wasn't even like 287 00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:37.740 a well, I got to think about that now. It guys like, 288 00:16:37.779 --> 00:16:40.379 Oh yeah, like I could have probably taught him thirty grand and he would 289 00:16:40.379 --> 00:16:41.340 have been like, Yep, okay, cool, let's do this right. 290 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:47.529 So I think practice. I think also knowing your value right and and so 291 00:16:47.730 --> 00:16:52.690 many reps don't get the access to the existing customers to see the real value 292 00:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.570 that that their solution brings to those companies. And if you genuinely were able 293 00:16:56.730 --> 00:17:00.649 to, and I recommend any company do this, get a couple of your 294 00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:04.279 customers on a little zoom call and have them and just talk, have them 295 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.920 talk and do an interview about what value do they get out of your solution 296 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:11.839 and and how can they not live without it and what does it allow them 297 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.680 to do? Right and have the reps listen to that. So then they 298 00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:18.670 see like holy it, for the right client, man, we we are 299 00:17:18.829 --> 00:17:23.789 incredible. It what we do and we make a difference. And when you 300 00:17:23.910 --> 00:17:29.269 can start to make that connection of wow, our solution for the right client 301 00:17:29.829 --> 00:17:34.019 makes a genuine difference. Now, when you find the right client, you 302 00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:37.579 have confidence in presenting that price and when you find the wrong client, you 303 00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:41.579 have confidence in presenting that place because, yeah, because it self selects. 304 00:17:41.660 --> 00:17:45.490 They're like sorry, you're not a good client for us. If that's what 305 00:17:45.650 --> 00:17:48.970 you think, then you're not. You're not in our real sweet spot here. 306 00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:52.329 Yeah, Oh man, I love that so much. I mean I've 307 00:17:52.369 --> 00:17:55.650 seen that in my own evolution heading up sales here at sweet fish for the 308 00:17:55.690 --> 00:18:00.039 last two years. I mean initially I was just so passionate about the strategy. 309 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.720 That's why I joined that James had kind of sold me on that well 310 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.119 before he ever thought he was selling me on it. But now, like 311 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:08.920 I had a sales called earlier today and they were like, I don't know 312 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.559 if a podcast can be right for us or people going to say yes to 313 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.269 be in on a podcast. Boom. I had a story from three weeks 314 00:18:15.309 --> 00:18:19.190 ago of a customer because I knew that story right now. That's easy for 315 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:22.869 me. Is a sales team of one and where a team of twenty five. 316 00:18:22.910 --> 00:18:26.619 I've got a closer intimate look into those customer stories and I know our 317 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:30.259 seventy customers. But if you're at a bigger organization, you've got to go 318 00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:34.539 find marketing or you've got to go fine cs and say, you know whatever, 319 00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:38.900 some of our our best fit customers and go find those stories, because 320 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:44.410 there's a big difference between me saying hey, John, for VP's of sales, 321 00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:48.890 we drive data da versus hey, we worked with Richard and boom boom, 322 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:52.410 boom boom, and just telling that story, which I think is something 323 00:18:52.569 --> 00:18:56.720 like you talked about the wording that you use, versus, versus Richard Harris, 324 00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:00.960 and I think that's something that erodes a lot of confidence. Like you 325 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.440 here on a podcaster, you here in a sales training use this line, 326 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.039 but it's not something that you would say. Like I'm with you. I 327 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.309 wouldn't ask you in normal conversation, John, how do you feel about that? 328 00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:14.990 John, had feel about the Patriots in the Bronch Eyes? We can 329 00:19:15.589 --> 00:19:18.950 it's off my tongue, but like, would you expect to pay something like 330 00:19:18.029 --> 00:19:22.829 that, like I could ask somebody that, like in normal conversation, and 331 00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:26.740 so finding like when you find something that works, make sure that it can 332 00:19:26.859 --> 00:19:32.299 roll off your tongue just like it would across the table from someone or across 333 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:34.019 the room with a friend these days. Yeah, because that's the other thing 334 00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:38.609 that instills the confidence is I'm not reading a script and it and it feels 335 00:19:38.650 --> 00:19:44.609 robotic, right. Yeah, I mean, yes, you have to make 336 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:47.849 it your own. I will say, though, in order to get better, 337 00:19:48.569 --> 00:19:51.569 you have to put you you have to get uncomfortable, you have to 338 00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:56.680 do things that are slightly unnatural for you, otherwise you won't know what that 339 00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.359 threshold is. You know what I mean for sure. So I'll give you 340 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.720 an example. Like I always talk about confidence and ego, right, or 341 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:07.029 being direct versus being rude. I believe we all, as sales professionals, 342 00:20:07.109 --> 00:20:10.950 need to figure out what that line is. We need to figure out what 343 00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:15.190 that line for us is of being direct versus route. And unfortunately, you 344 00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:19.230 have to cross that barrier in order to figure that out. So you have 345 00:20:19.349 --> 00:20:26.099 to push yourself to a point where it's Oh, whoops, that that came 346 00:20:26.140 --> 00:20:29.500 across as route. Okay, now let me self. Now let me just 347 00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:32.779 just down to kind of where my comfort level is. It's the same thing 348 00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:34.539 with any technique, and this is where Richard and I tomato, tomato. 349 00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:37.690 We talked about this as well as as well, which is scripts versus structure. 350 00:20:38.289 --> 00:20:41.690 I'm a structure Guy. Give you a structure. Let you play with 351 00:20:41.769 --> 00:20:44.450 that structure so you can kind of figure out what your style is within that 352 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:48.009 structure. Richard is script guy. This is no. No. Read this 353 00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:51.240 script so you're fully prepared and if you read it over and over and over 354 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.000 again, eventually you will make it your own and you won't need it. 355 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.519 I could see the value in bolt if I've done both. You know what 356 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.839 I mean. But if it's really not you, if it's really just that's 357 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.990 why the beauty right now of all these kind of sales influencers and everything that's 358 00:21:04.029 --> 00:21:07.750 going on right now on Linkedin, you have the ability to go listen to 359 00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:11.069 how other people deliver something like that and go, Oh, actually like that 360 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:14.470 approach. You know what I mean, let me try that and let me 361 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:17.029 make this my own and then you roll play it a little bit and then 362 00:21:17.069 --> 00:21:18.579 you go and practice it on there on the on the account of your tier 363 00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:22.700 three accounts and then you move up to your confidence level there. So it's 364 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:25.859 kind of a step by step process. Yeah, I like that too. 365 00:21:26.059 --> 00:21:29.700 Of You know, some people say never practice on on your prospects, but 366 00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:33.569 I've always been like role playing is own especially with tools like chorus and gone 367 00:21:33.609 --> 00:21:37.369 and everything else these days, like it had. I would say, like 368 00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:41.730 I think that's maybe one of the under utilized parts of those tools. Is 369 00:21:41.769 --> 00:21:45.089 like just for the next two weeks we're only going to focus on this part 370 00:21:45.089 --> 00:21:48.119 of the call and we're only going to review and coach on that part of 371 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.279 the call, as opposed to trying to boil the ocean and coach on everything 372 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:56.160 and that right. Yeah, I mean I like role play. I would 373 00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:59.640 say I'm not a fan of role play. I don't I don't do role 374 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:03.549 players in my trainings. I'm more about live application that type of stuff. 375 00:22:03.549 --> 00:22:07.029 I understand the place of role play. I like role play when it comes 376 00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:10.470 to right before you're about to do it. Yeah, so if you're about 377 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:12.549 to run a call blitz, for instance, do a quick little role play 378 00:22:12.589 --> 00:22:15.180 right before. I get the juices flow and make sure that people are kind 379 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:19.339 of in that mode and then go immediately apply it. Or you're about to 380 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:22.619 go into a meeting in a negotiation with a client, sit down with your 381 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:26.500 boss and say, I boss, here's a scenario. I'm I'm going in, 382 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:29.059 these are the two people that are I'm meeting with. Here's where we 383 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:32.730 are in this situation. I'm going to deliver pricing. I know you're probably 384 00:22:32.769 --> 00:22:33.690 going to want it. They we're going to want to discount. So can 385 00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:37.009 we kind of roll play this a little bit? You object to me and 386 00:22:37.089 --> 00:22:38.529 that type of thing, and I feel how to flow that cool. So 387 00:22:38.690 --> 00:22:41.130 I'm now prepared. Now I make that phone call. So that's where I 388 00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:45.559 think will play. Is Huge. Josh, what do you think is the 389 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.720 most irritating thing for Beb buyers right now? Man Logan, I love talking 390 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:53.079 to you about this. You know that the number one challenge right now is 391 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.670 that many customer facing teams in the B tob space right now are for seeing 392 00:22:57.910 --> 00:23:03.029 their potential buyers to buy the way that they want to sell, and buyers 393 00:23:03.069 --> 00:23:04.589 don't want to buy that way right now. They want to buy the way 394 00:23:04.670 --> 00:23:08.509 they want to buy. We need to enable those buyers. We call this 395 00:23:08.670 --> 00:23:12.740 buyer enablement at sales reach. We need to enable those buyers to make better 396 00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:18.259 decisions quicker in a comfortable environment that's more personalized for them to move forward with 397 00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:22.339 that process to that's awesome. I couldn't agree more. Since I've been using 398 00:23:22.539 --> 00:23:26.490 sales reach in my own sales process, it's allowed me to really enable the 399 00:23:26.609 --> 00:23:30.329 buyer to move more quickly in really two ways. One, they don't have 400 00:23:30.410 --> 00:23:33.369 to download a bunch of attachments. I can send them to one page with 401 00:23:33.809 --> 00:23:37.970 the proposal, case studies, different resources because, let's face it, the 402 00:23:38.049 --> 00:23:42.880 proposal is just one part of the sales conversation and probably only one sales enablement 403 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.519 piece of content that you're sending. So it makes it easier on them. 404 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:49.759 And then the other thing is, you know, we're selling to our champions 405 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:53.119 and then we're making them have to re give our pitch to the entire buying 406 00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.750 committee. So one thing I do is put a custom two to three minute 407 00:23:56.750 --> 00:24:00.710 video on the top of my sales reach page that says, Hey, here's 408 00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.950 all the resources, tie it back to the conversation, here's the proposal. 409 00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:06.869 Let me know if you have any questions. And it allows me to give 410 00:24:06.910 --> 00:24:08.670 a little bit of kind of a mini pitch to the rest of the buying 411 00:24:08.670 --> 00:24:14.420 committee introduce myself, which helps me build trust in credibility and helps the buyer 412 00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:18.259 not have to repeat the entire pitch from scratch. So if anybody is looking 413 00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:22.380 to do the same thing in their own sales process, I'd highly suggest they 414 00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:25.410 reach out to you in the team over at sales reach. For anybody listening, 415 00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:29.410 just go to sales reach dot ioh to talk to Josh and the team. 416 00:24:30.329 --> 00:24:33.329 Yeah, that's that's a really good point, man, because as much 417 00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:37.410 as I'm kind of anti role playing, I've been in those when I sold 418 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:40.960 copiers for ten years. Like we rolled up to the office. I'm sitting 419 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.960 in the car with my manager. All Right, asked me a couple questions, 420 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.240 like what if this question comes up? Paying me without boom, all 421 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.319 right, because then it's fresh in your mind. You've just kind of it's 422 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.029 almost just like less role playing and more of just a dry run. So 423 00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:59.230 I really like that approach to it. One last question on negotiation, John, 424 00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:03.029 and then I'm want to round out the conversation today with a rapid fire 425 00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:07.140 five questions for you. You talk a lot about you can't drive urgency based 426 00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:11.059 on your timeline. It has to be on the customers timeline and when it 427 00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:15.859 comes to negotiation, getting that wrong, saying like when the buyer knows, 428 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:19.299 hey, it's into quarter, I can get a really good deal. How 429 00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:23.089 do you flip that without being like well, John, you said that you 430 00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:29.809 wanted to have this launch right and making that not sound so so wrote. 431 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:33.490 You know what I'm saying. To where I John, what's what's your goal 432 00:25:33.609 --> 00:25:36.440 here? You know it's so that you can deliver that. Well, what's 433 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.359 changed? Is this still going to have the impact that you said it's going 434 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.720 to have if we don't move forward anything that you've kind of you know, 435 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.720 coach Morgan on or you've seen reps due to do that, but to do 436 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:49.869 it in a natural way. So, first and foremost, I think I 437 00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:55.349 want to make a one point about negotiations and what makes it all a lot 438 00:25:55.470 --> 00:26:00.150 easier so that that scenario doesn't even happen is a big fat pipeline. We've 439 00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:02.990 talked about this before, like give you. That's why I prospecting. I 440 00:26:03.029 --> 00:26:04.740 don't care what you're doing, I don't care how experience you getting sales. 441 00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:08.579 You got to get great at prospecting right because if you have a big fat 442 00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:12.460 pipeline, the rest of this stuff's easy. Like I don't really negotiate anymore. 443 00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:15.140 You know what I mean? I do, obviously again throughout the whole 444 00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:18.609 process I'm going through, but like, I never, I almost never, 445 00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:22.569 discount. I mean when I proactively discounted, it was so weird because I 446 00:26:22.609 --> 00:26:26.369 don't think I've discounted ten years right, because I've got her. I'll probably 447 00:26:26.410 --> 00:26:30.329 five because I've gotten to the point where I'm super confident and I constantly prospect. 448 00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:32.849 So I put myself in a position where I want your business, I 449 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.640 don't need it, because if I want your business, I sell the right 450 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.759 way, I close on your timeline right, that type of stuff. If 451 00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:44.279 I need Your Business, I do some shady it right. So, say 452 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:45.200 it comes to the end of the month. You know, somebody asked me 453 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.109 John, you know, how hard can you push, like, say it 454 00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:51.029 comes to the end of the month and you got to close out your quarter, 455 00:26:51.069 --> 00:26:52.869 you've got to close out the month. How hard can you push the 456 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:55.589 client to get the deal done? And I said it's in direct pro portion 457 00:26:55.910 --> 00:27:00.309 to how much it's in their best interest versus your best interest. If it's 458 00:27:00.349 --> 00:27:03.819 in their best interest, because they need to implement this based on the timelines 459 00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:06.299 and the results of the impact and all that other stuff, then you can 460 00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:10.259 and you should push as hard as you want challenger sale all day long. 461 00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:14.259 Now, this isn't because they're going to lose the discount by the end of 462 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:15.210 the month, by the way. I just want to make sure that we're 463 00:27:15.250 --> 00:27:19.529 clear on that. Like discount selling, to me, is it because everybody 464 00:27:19.609 --> 00:27:23.890 knows the discount does doesn't go away? And Look, and let me clarify, 465 00:27:25.410 --> 00:27:29.210 proactive discounting. I got no problem with a client asking me for a 466 00:27:29.289 --> 00:27:32.559 discount and then leveraging that, but a rep like the problem that I did 467 00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:34.880 was like I didn't do it the worst case scenario, which is like it 468 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.200 came to the end of the month. The deal was going to close probably 469 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.519 next month, but my boss told me we need more revenue this month. 470 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.750 John, you know I want you to call every deal it's in your pipeline 471 00:27:44.750 --> 00:27:47.269 and off for twenty percent. I feel sign this month like that is I 472 00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:51.430 wish managers would cut the and stop doing that. You destroy the credibility of 473 00:27:51.470 --> 00:27:56.309 your organization and the Rep because when that happens everybody knows the discount don't like. 474 00:27:56.430 --> 00:27:59.059 So usually what happens with that is yeah, sure, no problem, 475 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:00.259 Logan. Yeah, well, will do that. Want to hit me up 476 00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:02.900 at the end of the month? Will definitely do that. And then what 477 00:28:02.980 --> 00:28:04.180 happens at the end of the month? They don't call you because they're end 478 00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:07.779 of the month. Happens too, so they're crazy. And then they call 479 00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:10.619 you on Monday or the first day of the month also. Sorry, Logan, 480 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:11.180 you know what I mean. Yeah, we're ready to move forward. 481 00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:14.529 Can we still you know, just add that discount in and we'll get ready 482 00:28:14.529 --> 00:28:18.049 to go. What are you gonna say? No, awkward situation. You 483 00:28:18.170 --> 00:28:21.970 either destroy your credibility or you take them off, like there's no win there. 484 00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:23.609 Yeah, and I mean what it like? Discount go wait, like, 485 00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:27.559 would your profitability change over the weekend? Shot? So, so final, 486 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.319 I'll just wait until the end of next month. So this is why 487 00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.960 the discovery is so important, and and not qualification. Qualifications about us, 488 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.319 discoveries about them. What is the impact of them? You should ask that 489 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.119 question. You brought it up, which is hey, great timeline. When 490 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.829 you want to do this. Why write what happens and then ask the question 491 00:28:44.950 --> 00:28:48.309 of what happens if it doesn't get implemented on that timeline? Right? Because 492 00:28:48.349 --> 00:28:52.390 if it doesn't get implement and there's really only two answers to that question, 493 00:28:52.910 --> 00:28:56.539 which is either there's there's impact. Right, well, we're going to miss 494 00:28:56.539 --> 00:28:59.420 out on this milestone. We're going for our series d around funding and we're 495 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:00.259 not going to be able to get it, or we're going to miss our 496 00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:04.460 quote or whatever that is. There's some impact there, then you can and 497 00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:08.299 should push when that comes right. But if the other the other answer to 498 00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:11.490 that is, you know, I guess we'll just kind of keep doing what 499 00:29:11.569 --> 00:29:15.130 we're doing. You know you're in trouble. You know you didn't find the 500 00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:18.170 reason. You're going to lose to no decision if that's the case. And 501 00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:21.089 so when it comes, so what I do is you and I have a 502 00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:25.079 conversation. I dig deep on that impact, on the discovery and get in 503 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.720 there why you want to do this and the impact that's going to have to 504 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.519 your organization and get you agree to that. I then summarize that conversation. 505 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.680 I write it in a little summary email. Hey, logos, great talking 506 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.400 today. Blows brief summary what we talked about. Could you do me a 507 00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:38.549 favorite? Email me back to let me know if that's all accurate and if 508 00:29:38.589 --> 00:29:41.910 I missed anything, and in there I say your time, you know your 509 00:29:41.029 --> 00:29:45.069 here's your current situation. Your priorities are this, your timelines, this, 510 00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:48.710 here's the impact of it. Doesn't happen right next steps bump right now. 511 00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.980 If you ghost me or if you start pushing like that type of thing, 512 00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:56.059 I take at email, I fire back to you and I'm like Halogan, 513 00:29:56.420 --> 00:30:02.259 like I'm okay, I kind of understand. I'm a little confused, though, 514 00:30:02.859 --> 00:30:06.779 because you said that your priorities were this, your timelines, this and 515 00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:08.529 those type of things, and now you're saying you want to push this to 516 00:30:08.609 --> 00:30:11.809 q on. Now you want to say you you know it's too it's you 517 00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:15.609 don't have the budget for it. Either you don't believe that my solution can 518 00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:21.009 solve your problem or I'm missing something here. What is it? I mean? 519 00:30:21.089 --> 00:30:23.440 Last q four of last year, we sent Morgan sent out a whole 520 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.279 bunch of emails that said literally in the subject line, what am I missing? 521 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.720 And in there it's said exactly that, hey, we've been working together 522 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.519 for a while now. Here you confirmed that these were your priorities in your 523 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.029 timeline. At this point there's real impact, there's real need for this. 524 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:41.869 You know you told me this. So again, either you do not believe 525 00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:45.390 that we are can fix that problem for you, or you've gone into different 526 00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:49.380 direction with somebody else who has or I'm missing something. What is it? 527 00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:53.539 And we got a lot of responses. Sorry, yeah, you did. 528 00:30:53.779 --> 00:30:56.579 You know we actually shifted this or whatever. Okay, cool. Well, 529 00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:00.099 John, it's it's key there, right, because what Chris Voss says is 530 00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:06.329 is negotiation is a process of discovery. So when you learn what's changed, 531 00:31:06.450 --> 00:31:08.970 oh, the svp of sales, you know, is moving on or this, 532 00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:15.049 we change this where we got this new initiative. Now it that sucks 533 00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:18.640 to hear that something's changed, but it's better to hear that and well, 534 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.119 what's going on, and now you can sell to the new situation. Yeah, 535 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.440 and you can even preempted to say I mean I I do small stuff 536 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.240 along the way, like, Hey, you know Logan, as we go 537 00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.680 through this process. If you need something for me, I'll get back to 538 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.230 the twenty four hours. Right. What should I expect from you? I'll 539 00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:36.950 say that and I you know, the reason I ask Logan is because I 540 00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:38.109 don't want to be the annoying sales rep. You tell me to wait a 541 00:31:38.190 --> 00:31:41.069 week. I wait a week. Right. So I set the stage. 542 00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:42.109 Hey, Logan, and you okay as we go through this process, are 543 00:31:42.109 --> 00:31:45.069 you okay with telling me no? Sounds like a weird question. I want 544 00:31:45.109 --> 00:31:48.859 to let you know a I am a hundred percent come, commment and comfortable 545 00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:52.099 with you telling me now, because we rather people know. Yeah, we 546 00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:56.819 as sales people know. The only thing worse than than a know is just 547 00:31:56.220 --> 00:32:00.220 nothing. Right. Maybe slowly response, so maybe right. Like I want 548 00:32:00.220 --> 00:32:02.410 to get to a guest or no fast as I possibly can, and so 549 00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:06.730 I try to set the stage to let you know I'm okay with a no. 550 00:32:07.210 --> 00:32:08.809 Yes, as we go through this process. If, and I'll even 551 00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:10.490 kind of extend it, I'll say look, a look, and as we 552 00:32:10.529 --> 00:32:14.410 go through this process, if it's pretty evident to you that we are not 553 00:32:14.529 --> 00:32:16.559 a good fit for whatever you're trying to accomplish here and I can't see it 554 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.039 for some reason because I got my sales lens on here, are you okay 555 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.720 with tell me no? And it's it usually takes them off guard and they're 556 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:27.960 like, but now with zoom, it's like yeah, yeah, absolutely cool, 557 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.950 because love the look. And I say the worst thing I need, 558 00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:32.910 the worst thing I could get is a no response from you or a maybe 559 00:32:32.990 --> 00:32:36.710 or whatever it is, and then I've become a stalker and it becomes weird 560 00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:39.670 and yeah, likes. Just spected the elephant in the room right. There's 561 00:32:39.710 --> 00:32:43.509 a line I use all the time. It's like, look, in my 562 00:32:43.710 --> 00:32:46.859 role, there's a fine line between being persistent and being a pest. So 563 00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:52.059 tell me when I've crossed that line and I'll jump right back on the other 564 00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:55.019 side. But if I understand your timeline, then that helps me stay persistent 565 00:32:55.180 --> 00:32:59.089 but not be a pest. I'm just a sucker for an alliteration, but 566 00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:02.089 that's the said point. I like that. Are you okay with with telling 567 00:33:02.170 --> 00:33:05.609 me now? All right, John, we're going to we're going to wrap 568 00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:07.809 it up with five rapid fire questions and go for it. Yeah, go 569 00:33:07.930 --> 00:33:10.930 for it, John. If you are hiring a new sales rep right now 570 00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:15.359 and you could pick one trait that was just off the charts, everything else 571 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:20.680 could only be kind of men. What would that one trait be? Great, 572 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:25.839 love it. You've got a huge following on linkedin social in general. 573 00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:29.789 You know, you and I talked on your podcast the other day about the 574 00:33:29.789 --> 00:33:32.509 importance of sales people building their own brand. What do you think is it? 575 00:33:32.710 --> 00:33:36.869 are a few things that have been key to you and building your brand 576 00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:43.660 that you think other sales people could replicate? Educating yourself first. Don't build 577 00:33:43.700 --> 00:33:47.900 your brand just to build your brands. Do an authentic way. Focus on 578 00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:53.140 learning. Okay, ideally learning what you're interested in, but also what your 579 00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:57.769 audience is, so your target audience is interested in and then go follow thought 580 00:33:57.809 --> 00:34:00.730 leaders in those spaces who are writing about that type of stuff. Read their 581 00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:05.130 stuff about the it the other industry experts, because you don't have to be 582 00:34:05.250 --> 00:34:08.210 the content creator, you have to be the content curator and you could take 583 00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:10.880 credit for other people's work, like if I so I write a blog. 584 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.920 Right, if you read my blog, Logan, and you share it out 585 00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:17.559 there and you put some context on Hey, really good blog here by John 586 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:22.400 my key takeaways or Xyz Bullom, and you share it out there. If 587 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.269 somebody's following you and they read my blog and they like my blog, they 588 00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:29.829 don't thank me, they thank you. They don't say Oh, great blog 589 00:34:29.909 --> 00:34:32.070 John, they say hey, thanks logan for sharing that blog. So you 590 00:34:32.190 --> 00:34:35.510 get all the credit. I did all the work. So what you're doing 591 00:34:35.590 --> 00:34:38.300 there is, if you focus on learning, first. Then it's authentic, 592 00:34:38.380 --> 00:34:40.780 right, because if you find something, and that's how I do it, 593 00:34:42.019 --> 00:34:45.940 is like whenever I find something that I learn from, that's when I share 594 00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:49.179 it out there with my thoughts about it, and it's authentic. And if 595 00:34:49.219 --> 00:34:52.099 you're not authentic, if you're just spewing it just to try to get a 596 00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:55.050 following, then you know you're going to get called out eventually. But if 597 00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:59.449 you do it in an authentic way and you learn first and then share, 598 00:34:59.489 --> 00:35:01.530 it's like you hear everybody share your journey. That's what you don't care about. 599 00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:05.449 They want to put they don't care about like your expertise, and I 600 00:35:05.489 --> 00:35:07.559 mean unless you get to a level that are you were just, you know, 601 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.880 beyond. Most people care more about the journey. Yeah, right, 602 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:14.320 so share that journey absolutely, man. I love that. It's right in 603 00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:16.480 line with our core value. Have never stopped learning here and you know, 604 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.199 as as the old saying goes, when you teach something you learn it twice. 605 00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:22.429 So, even if you don't build the brand on the back of that, 606 00:35:22.789 --> 00:35:27.550 you've actually learned what you're learning better because you've tried to teach it, 607 00:35:27.630 --> 00:35:30.550 you've tried to share it. All right, number number three, of our 608 00:35:30.590 --> 00:35:34.349 rapid fire. John, what's one thing that most people don't know about you? 609 00:35:37.659 --> 00:35:43.059 I'm pretty open book man. You know something that that I'm proud but 610 00:35:43.820 --> 00:35:46.300 as tucked away on my linkedin that no people, most people don't know is 611 00:35:46.780 --> 00:35:51.250 you know, I work for Jack Welsh, for Ge Jack Welles, for 612 00:35:51.289 --> 00:35:54.650 about three months getting this online NBA program off the ground and it was probably 613 00:35:54.769 --> 00:35:58.889 one of the cooler experiences I've ever experienced in business. And it ties to 614 00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:02.730 something that I learned when I got fired from staples. So I my little 615 00:36:02.769 --> 00:36:07.719 company, we fastest growing company in Massachusetts, sold off to staples, spent 616 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:10.000 about a year going through the integration, got fired because I just don't fit 617 00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:15.559 in the corporate world, obviously, and the guy who fired me. There's 618 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:17.750 I do when I do training. There's a closing technique the year this is 619 00:36:17.789 --> 00:36:21.389 called the door knob clothes, which is effectively, when you lose the deal, 620 00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:23.429 you go back and you say, he could you help me understand what 621 00:36:23.590 --> 00:36:28.110 what really happened here? Right and it's not, then the cheesy sales approach 622 00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:29.750 is to flip it back. When they say oh, no, no, 623 00:36:29.909 --> 00:36:31.150 and you could tell no, we do that right, but I do it 624 00:36:31.230 --> 00:36:36.260 for my own personal professional development. So the guy at this Guy Ja Baitler 625 00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:38.619 at staples who fired me, who ran a twelve billion dollar part of staples, 626 00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:40.980 I actually reached out to him and I said, Hey, my own 627 00:36:42.019 --> 00:36:45.219 personal professional development, could you help me understand what what, what happened here? 628 00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:49.610 And this guy who him and I did this all year like he was 629 00:36:49.809 --> 00:36:52.769 so open to this conversation and he said, John Barrels, you know, 630 00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:55.329 the fact that you reached out to me to get feedback on this tells me 631 00:36:55.409 --> 00:36:58.969 more about you than I knew in the year working with you. He's like, 632 00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:00.889 you have a year, you have an hour of my time. I'll 633 00:37:00.889 --> 00:37:02.559 answer any question. So we went through that. That was my MBA. 634 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:07.840 I literally learned more in that hour than I had learned any like business class 635 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.280 I'd ever taken. Fast forward, I get a chance for work for Jack 636 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:15.400 Welsh. I get Jack Welsh, I'm sitting there interviewing it was a coolest 637 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:17.909 interview. We said that like fifty times because he's from Boston too. And 638 00:37:19.070 --> 00:37:24.510 they wanted references and I gave them Jay Baitler, the guy who fired me, 639 00:37:25.269 --> 00:37:30.940 as a reference, and Jay Baitler said to Jack Welsh, if you 640 00:37:30.980 --> 00:37:34.619 don't hire John Barrows, you're an idiot. Man. I love that story. 641 00:37:34.699 --> 00:37:37.420 I got to work for Jack and susie wells for six months, for 642 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:39.059 three months, and it was the coolest. I mean the interview with Jack 643 00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:42.500 Welles was pretty much the coolest. Like, I am a pants, like 644 00:37:42.500 --> 00:37:44.809 I'm sitting there. I thought I was only going to meet with Susie, 645 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:46.489 but because they had said well Jack might show up, so they flew me 646 00:37:46.570 --> 00:37:50.730 down to Florida. It's this little start up and I'm propound like, all 647 00:37:50.730 --> 00:37:52.329 right, I'm just going to meet with and Susie's like baller to write, 648 00:37:52.329 --> 00:37:54.730 but I was like whatever. I really wanted to be Jack. But okay, 649 00:37:54.769 --> 00:37:58.090 he's not going to be there and I'm sitting there preparing it. All 650 00:37:58.090 --> 00:38:00.440 of a sudden he stands in the doorway and he looks down at me. 651 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:07.840 Goes John Barrows, and I'm like Jack Welsh, and I's like it is 652 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:08.960 is I get in here, let's have a conversation, and I'm like, 653 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.469 I don't get nervous much often, right, but I'm sitting across from the 654 00:38:13.550 --> 00:38:15.789 man, the myth of legend, right, I mean this guy used to 655 00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:20.550 be my business idol and right, we're growing up and I'm sitting across and 656 00:38:20.630 --> 00:38:22.670 I was about to ask him some pretty direct questions because his all about Canada, 657 00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:27.139 right, and he had tied his university to some piece of Chancellor University, 658 00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:28.860 and I was going to say, Jack, Why did you do it? 659 00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:30.460 You could have gone to Harvard, Yale, whatever, and he goes, 660 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:34.860 before I even start talking, he goes. So let me tell you 661 00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:37.340 about this Baggett College, chance of university. I got myself involved as imported. 662 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:44.409 I made a mistake and I was like Ah, two hours later, 663 00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:46.969 like I'll answered. That is so it was. It was super cool experience. 664 00:38:47.369 --> 00:38:51.849 Oh man, that is fantastic. Well, you might have answered number 665 00:38:51.969 --> 00:38:53.369 four for me, because I was going to ask do you want to give 666 00:38:53.409 --> 00:38:58.039 a shout out to anybody who's been just critical in your career journey? I 667 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.039 imagine it's it's Jay and Jack, based on that story, right there they 668 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:06.000 were. You know, that was a learning experience. Um, I'm going 669 00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:10.670 to actually give a shout out to Chris my crro Chris grew up with him 670 00:39:10.710 --> 00:39:14.869 when we were kids, like literally, is known the kids since I was 671 00:39:14.949 --> 00:39:16.949 five years old, and you know, east coast, west coast stuff. 672 00:39:17.030 --> 00:39:21.110 Here you know East Coast. Look, I'm forty five years old right, 673 00:39:21.150 --> 00:39:23.659 or about to be forty five. When I'm growing up, like entrepreneurship was 674 00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:28.059 not it's just not in the DNA of East coasters, right, like we 675 00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:30.179 are a little bit more traditionalist whatever. Like growing up, literally, I 676 00:39:30.219 --> 00:39:35.300 thought Entrepreneurship and startups were for you Weirdos out in California, right, and 677 00:39:35.539 --> 00:39:37.730 so I was the traditional like, okay, I got to get a job, 678 00:39:37.809 --> 00:39:39.769 I got to do really good at that job, I'm going to get 679 00:39:39.769 --> 00:39:43.929 promoted and all that other stuff. But I didn't know that I was I 680 00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:45.969 was an entrepreneur. I didn't know that I had that entrepreneur itch. But 681 00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:51.010 when I was in corporate it just didn't feel right to me. There was 682 00:39:51.130 --> 00:39:54.079 something that wasn't there was eating at me that didn't feel right and I kept 683 00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:58.599 I kept it bottled up because I knew I couldn't like just blow something, 684 00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:01.360 blow it up. But then Chris, you know, I was down at 685 00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:05.400 university in Maryland. I came back to Boston. Didn't really tell anybody I 686 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:07.269 was back here because I didn't really like growing up in my hometown and Chris 687 00:40:07.469 --> 00:40:10.030 was like one of my close friends. So I had heard from a friend 688 00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:14.590 of a friend that Chris had started a startup company called thrived networks, and 689 00:40:14.590 --> 00:40:15.829 I kind of laughed because Chris was such a cup in high school. It 690 00:40:15.829 --> 00:40:19.070 was ridiculous, like this Kild Grat, like there was a hundred and twenty 691 00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:22.019 five kids in our graduating class. Chris graduated a hundred twenty four and they 692 00:40:22.059 --> 00:40:25.579 actually gave him credits to leave high school. They were like please just leave, 693 00:40:25.659 --> 00:40:28.860 like he didn't have enough credits to graduate. They were like please just 694 00:40:28.900 --> 00:40:30.420 leave, right. But he's that entrepreneur, you know, that the person 695 00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:34.659 who just is different, right, and I was like so, I kind 696 00:40:34.659 --> 00:40:37.250 of laughed. I was like, you're a like you started a company, 697 00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:40.530 are you out of your mind? But then I heard he had tied together 698 00:40:40.610 --> 00:40:44.409 with another buddy of mine from high school who is the smartest kid I'd ever 699 00:40:44.449 --> 00:40:49.889 met my life, is kid Calvin. And so that was I joined thrive 700 00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:53.000 networks as the fourth employee and Chris had the been the one that took the 701 00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:57.639 pure risk, like started from zero, self funded. I'm more of a 702 00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.480 calculated risk taker, so I need to have some pieces in place before I 703 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.590 take the risk, but I usually will take it if I see those pieces 704 00:41:04.630 --> 00:41:09.269 in place. So, Chris, I don't without Chris starting five networks and 705 00:41:09.429 --> 00:41:14.269 me joining, I don't think I would ever got I don't say never, 706 00:41:14.469 --> 00:41:16.909 but I think I would have slug through the corporate world for a lot longer 707 00:41:17.030 --> 00:41:21.659 and been a lot more miserable. And he got me kind of. He 708 00:41:22.219 --> 00:41:24.179 woke me up from an entrepreneur on a standpoint, and so I'd say he's 709 00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:27.659 probably one of the bigger ones that has an influence on my career and now 710 00:41:27.699 --> 00:41:30.300 I work with him every day because he's my crow. I love it. 711 00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:32.610 Man, Chris is. Chris is a good dude. I've had several conversations 712 00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:36.769 with him and I didn't know the full backstory between you two. So I'm 713 00:41:36.849 --> 00:41:38.769 loving here in that story. All right. Last thing, John, what 714 00:41:38.889 --> 00:41:44.969 do you think that the biggest factor for success for sales reps as we round 715 00:41:44.969 --> 00:41:46.719 the corner into two thousand and twenty one, and man, two thousand and 716 00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:50.119 twenty has been a roller coaster. Who the heck knows what two thousand and 717 00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:52.000 twenty one is going to bring. What do you think the key thing that 718 00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:57.880 sales wraps out there should be optimizing for focusing on learning, training themselves, 719 00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:00.360 on if they, if they had to pick one thing for the next three 720 00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:07.030 months to bone up their skills on, has one thing. You know I 721 00:42:07.110 --> 00:42:08.789 mean I always say the secret to success is working your ass off. It's 722 00:42:08.829 --> 00:42:13.909 not. It's not. There's no secret sauce. It's really just like literally 723 00:42:13.949 --> 00:42:15.380 work in your ass off. I'm not the smartest kid out there. I 724 00:42:15.460 --> 00:42:17.780 went to a state school, drag my way through four years of college, 725 00:42:19.059 --> 00:42:22.340 but I know I cannot work you and so, you know, I would 726 00:42:22.340 --> 00:42:25.019 say. I would say business acumen. I would say learn how to be 727 00:42:25.139 --> 00:42:30.650 a learned about business. Don't learn about like whatever your product is, whatever 728 00:42:30.769 --> 00:42:32.929 the sales technique. You want to learn about whatever it is. But when 729 00:42:32.929 --> 00:42:37.489 you can get to the level we you are having business conversations with people because 730 00:42:37.530 --> 00:42:44.360 you've educated yourself on the industry, you've educated yourself on business in general, 731 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:49.559 you'll find the conversations changed drastically. Right when you stop pitching your solutions and 732 00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:54.639 you start having conversations about your solutions and you start having like just business discussions, 733 00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:00.590 like the sale ends up happening because the person sees you as somebody who 734 00:43:00.630 --> 00:43:05.309 knows what the they're talking about and actually has insightful things to bring to the 735 00:43:05.429 --> 00:43:10.309 table. So I would just consume or get exposed to as much as you 736 00:43:10.389 --> 00:43:15.260 can from a business standpoint to learn. Go in your organization, ask your 737 00:43:15.340 --> 00:43:17.380 CEO to sit down for lunch and pick their brain about why they started a 738 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:22.940 business. Talk to your cfo about what is you know, how to CFOs. 739 00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:24.380 Look at, you know, PNL's on that type of thing, and 740 00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:27.809 why should I know about them as a sales rep? You know, go 741 00:43:27.929 --> 00:43:30.170 to your tech team and understand, like what's the implementation look like and why 742 00:43:30.170 --> 00:43:34.969 are we can figure you know what I mean. Just absorb what it's, 743 00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:37.409 what it's means to be in business and stop going through the motions to just 744 00:43:37.530 --> 00:43:40.250 hit your number for one, you know what I mean, like or hit 745 00:43:40.329 --> 00:43:43.559 the you know, I got to hit my fifty dials today, or I 746 00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:46.760 got to get my ten S Qls, like that type of it is fine 747 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:49.800 and look, you have to do that, no question about it, to 748 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.519 keep your job. But if you really want to elevate, you know we 749 00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:58.710 gotta got to elevate. Yeah, and and if you want it to and 750 00:43:58.829 --> 00:44:00.469 if you want the grind, which is never going to go away, to 751 00:44:00.590 --> 00:44:04.869 be less of a grind, you've got to do that because, like you 752 00:44:04.909 --> 00:44:07.989 said, the conversations change. You're in a place of confidence, you can 753 00:44:08.110 --> 00:44:13.460 hold your own with any executive. I think that, man. As I 754 00:44:13.619 --> 00:44:15.940 think about it, and probably would have been tough for me to answer that 755 00:44:15.019 --> 00:44:19.699 one too, but I think business acumen it man. It's right up there 756 00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:22.659 on the top of my list as well. John, this has been fantastic, 757 00:44:22.780 --> 00:44:24.809 man. I really appreciate you coming back on the show. I think 758 00:44:24.889 --> 00:44:29.010 this we had you on a few times. My first time for me getting 759 00:44:29.050 --> 00:44:31.250 the pleasure to interview you. If anybody's not already following you, what's the 760 00:44:31.329 --> 00:44:34.889 best way for them to stay in touch with you? You guys have some 761 00:44:35.010 --> 00:44:37.329 new stuff going on with on demand content, with JAB sales. What's the 762 00:44:37.409 --> 00:44:40.599 best way for them to learn more, stay connected with you guys and find 763 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:45.519 some resources? Yeah, I appreciate. So any you know j Barrows, 764 00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:50.079 Jay Barrowscom, so jab arowscom. You'll see everything there. You got our 765 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.750 blog. If you do training for individuals, that's the new platform that we 766 00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:57.949 created, like Netflix for sales. It's my it's everything that I train to 767 00:44:58.110 --> 00:45:00.230 sales for us, linked in all these different companies for four hundred twenty bucks 768 00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:04.230 a year. So any REP can get it and it's not just my stuff. 769 00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:07.139 It's Morgan stuff, it's James and stuff, Richard Harris has stuff is 770 00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:08.699 in there. We're just going to continue to put more and more content in 771 00:45:08.780 --> 00:45:14.260 there to build this community, to try to level up and then obviously Linkedin, 772 00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:16.699 right. I mean I think Linkedin is where my biggest audiences and and 773 00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:20.420 it's the fastest way to get in touch with me. I actually, you 774 00:45:20.539 --> 00:45:22.369 know, the fastest way to get in. This is for everybody out there. 775 00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:24.530 If you want some free consulting, just have you up on instagram. 776 00:45:24.929 --> 00:45:30.369 So it's John M as and Michael Barrows. That's my handle. That's where 777 00:45:30.369 --> 00:45:32.889 I'm doing all Free Consulting and coaching right now for sales reps out there and 778 00:45:32.929 --> 00:45:36.519 needing some help. I love him and John, thank you so much for 779 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.480 making time for us today. This has been fantastic conversation. Dude, awesome. 780 00:45:39.519 --> 00:45:46.280 Thanks for me. I'm going to appreciate it. Is the decisionmaker for 781 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:51.309 your product or service a bdb marketer? Are you looking to reach those buyers 782 00:45:51.469 --> 00:45:57.030 through the medium of podcasting? Considered becoming a cohost of BB growth? This 783 00:45:57.190 --> 00:46:00.429 show is consistently ranked as a top one hundred podcast in the marketing category of 784 00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:06.380 Apple Podcasts, and the show gets more than a hundred and thirtyzero downloads each 785 00:46:06.500 --> 00:46:09.340 month. We've already done the work of building the audience, so you can 786 00:46:09.380 --> 00:46:15.820 focus on delivering incredible content to our listeners. If you're interested, email logan 787 00:46:15.980 --> 00:46:16.380 at sweet fish Mediacom