Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to be tob growth.
I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media.
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I'm joined today by John Barrels.
He's the CEO of Jab sales training.
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If you don't know him, you
obviously should. John, welcome back to
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the show man. How you doing
today? I'm doing fantastic. Logan.
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How you doing then? I'm doing
all right. How's your fantasy football team
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doing? By the way, you
know, I gave up on fantasy a
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while back, man, because I
was traveling too much and I was finding
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myself waking up on Sunday mornings and
be like, Oh, auto draft,
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you know, like whatever, and
auto set the schedule and there was just
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too many other stresses in my life
and I sucked at it anyway. So
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I've given up. Now that I'm
home, though, now that I'm like
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not traveling as much, next season
I might, I might get back into
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the game, but right now I'm
just focus on my paths. That's about
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it. Yeah, I hear a
man. You know, I did you
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the courtesy when I was on your
podcast here recently. I didn't wear the
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broncos hat, but I had to
wear it today. I have enough got
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Denver and New England coming up this
weekend, hopefully. Yeah, yeah,
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we'll see. We'll see. Well, John, pretty much everybody listening this
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show is going to know who you
are, but for those who don't,
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give us the thirty second bioh.
What do you guys up to over at
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JAB sales these days? Yeah,
we do sales tress. So I've been
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doing this now for about ten years. I've been in sales my entire life.
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Kind of fell in into it.
Fell into it like everybody else,
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and started a company. Took this
training and loved it and then sold my
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company too staples. Then joined the
company we used to be called Bas show,
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not because I wanted to be at
trainer, but they had a really
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unique model of trainers had to sell. So it wasn't just like you trained,
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you know, like the old school
trainers. It just don't know what
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I can do what they're do.
So I joined them and then they screwed
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it up and I took it over
and started JB sales and now we work
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with some of the fastest going tech
companies out there like sales force, Linkedin
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box, dropbox, slack, Google, OCTA, like a lot of the
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fast growing text ass companies, just
teaching them techniques training, you know,
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usually very, very tactical things.
We're not like consultants, where let's get
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our hands dirty here and get to
work. So that's kind of what we're
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having fun with these days. Yeah, I love that, man. There's
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nothing more boring or more just like
do I really have to do this,
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sitting through a sales training with somebody
man, woman, child, whatever it
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is, anybody who hasn't sold in
the last decade. It's like come on.
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So I love, love the way
you guys, you guys approach it,
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between you and Morgan and the growing
team over there right now. So
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today, John, we're going to
be talking about negotiation, which I think
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is just one of the critical factors. I mean, as I've dug into
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this, you know, I read
never split the difference twice over the past
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year and you know, I feel
like that taught me a ton when it
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comes to not just sales but life. And so maybe there's a broader conversation
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there. But you, you kind
of made me want to dig into this
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with you the other day because you
posted on Linkedin a situation where you guys
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realized our crap. We negotiated with
our self here. Let's kick it off
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with that story and kind of what
you guys learned and then we'll go from
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there. Yeah, it was a
I mean look, yeah, I think
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to your point, life is negotiations, right. I mean you think about
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it with your wife, you kid, you know, you doesn't like you're
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always negotiating in some way, shape
or form. And I think a lot
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of people have a misconception of negotiating
as it's about the deal, right.
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It's like we're negotiating for this deal
or this price. And if you if
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that's the way you think of negotiation, you've already lost. I mean,
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Chris Voss says in his book the
most dangerous negotiation you're ever going to be
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in as the one you don't know
you're in right when, for me that's
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a coal call, like when somebody
picks up the phone, we are negotiating
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like like I'm trying to get information
from you. You're trying to either get
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off the phone with me or get
information from me, and so but you
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know, we get lazy every once
in a while and that's what I did,
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unfortunately, recently. So I don't
want to name the company. It's
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a huge logo, I mean huge
one that anybody listening on this call would
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die, and I to have and
I've been working on them for three years.
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I've been prospecting in and trying every
angle I could get into work in
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my connections. Right. So finally, and I think all that built up
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to this inbound lead right, and
it was because somebody from another client of
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mine moved over there and they are
John, we are now going verticalized,
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we are now going subvertical. We
need your training like done right. So
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there was a familiarity there. So
I think that's what led to the laziness,
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because I actually it wasn't me who
is doing the negotiations, my director,
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customer success. She actually got on
and then she said, okay,
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this is what they're looking for and
she called me and she said, all
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right, what's up? And we, I mean we build, like you
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know, our training is fifteen grand
three sessions. We try to put thirty
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people in it, right. We
try to cap it at thirty people because,
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like we do engagement and homework assignments
and that type of stuff. So
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if it's forty, fifty, hundred
people, it's just not possible to get
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to all those people. Right.
So the reason we pack it that way.
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But they had like a hundred and
fifty people, and so we were
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like well, and and Meg,
my director cusomer sex, told me that.
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She was like look, you know, they really want to put as
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many people through it as they can. But I told him about these things.
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So we got flexible and what we
did was we allowed him to go
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more right. So and so it's
called a hundred people, right, that
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should have been whereas a hundred fifty
people. That should have been five sessions
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for us. Okay, at rate
card. But I was like logo,
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like let's make this because she already
knows us, so she already knows our
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pricing, right, so let's make
this easy for them to just pop and
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let's get rolling on this, because
it sounded like they wanted to move forward
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fast, right, and sure it. We sent it over where was like
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four, instead of five sessions,
three sessions, and instead of thirty people
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percession, fifty people possession. And
we said to him look, and we
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even mapped it out. We said, Hey, look, this is what
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we would typically charge, but because
of the potential long term relationship here,
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Blah Blah Blah. They didn't ask
for a discount. They didn't you know
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what I mean, like and and, but I thought I was being cool
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and just try and I and it
was more be being lazy, right,
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because I because I was just trying
to get this thing done, because I've
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been working for three years on this
deal and you know, we mapped it
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all out. She sent a great
email that showed the kind of discount breakdown
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and all this other stuff, and
the woman said, you know, she
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got back to us. She said, John or Meg, we brought this
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to finance. MMMMM, and they
want you to sharpen your pencil. and
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that was the email, like they
wanted you to sharpen your pencil. And
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I'm sitting in so men calls me
back and she's and she sends me that
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email and I'm like, Gosh,
son of a I'm like, we already
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sharpened our pencil. So now we're
in a position now where I'm not going
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to go any lower, you know
what I mean, like that was as
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low as I was going to go. That was my final pre that was
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my best and final. So now
we got to figure out a way to
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to work with them and work with
my champion now to keep that price where
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it is and talk to finance about
we've already you know what I mean.
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So now we're in this. I
mean we're still going to get it,
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don't get me wrong, but I
probably left thirty grand on the table and
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and I put myself in a in
a weaker position from a negotiation standpoint,
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because I negotiate with myself, you
know what I mean, like yeah,
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and reps do that all the time
and I used to do that all the
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time and every once in a while
I fall back into it because I don't
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know if it comes with from the
confidence of your pricing or just like knowing
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every time price comes up. Most
of the times we've conditioned prospects to beat
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US UP ON PRICE. And especially
in the SASS world, everybody knows there's
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margin, you know. I mean
a one extra license is really going to
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cost one five hundred dollars. Like, shut up, you'd it doesn't cost
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you a dime more to put one
license on. So that's how I know
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I can beat you up right.
So we've conditioned these prospects to expect discounting.
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I don't know a lot of companies
that are work with they actually baked
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discounting into their pricing model. They
assume a ten percent, twenty percent discount,
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which is why they build it in
that way. And so because of
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that there's this lack of confidence because, look, it's funny to me,
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like when something's twenty to say something's
Twentyzero. Right, when somebody asks John,
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how much is this? The answer
should be Twentyzeros, but it's never
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twenty Geez. You like would ask, like how much is is? You
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always hear, well, it's Twentyzero, but it really depends on and look,
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if I'm listening to that, if
you're selling me and you and that's
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your answer to how much this is
cost. Right, I might have been
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talking to your competition and I heard
thirty grand, forty grand, whatever,
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and I heard twenty from you and
I was like holy that's actually pretty reasonable.
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Right, but as soon as the
word but comes out of your mouth,
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I'm not paying twenty grand anymore.
You know what I mean? Like
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you automatically open the door for a
discount without, I mean, the a
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lot of time, that confidence about
how you deliver price. Yeah, it's
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a long way talk to talk about
that a little bit because, okay,
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you said kind of the pitfall for
you guys here was, you know,
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you called it out we can get
lazy and just think, Hey, I
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just want to get this deal done
quickly and just dropping the price a little
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bit to show them, you know, a measure of good faith is going
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to help me fast track this deal. But the other big one is a
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lack of confidence. So, as
your training reps you you you've evolved in
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the way that you present pricing.
If the little things right, it's not
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necessarily it's the tone in which you
say it. It's the little little words
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that you as a buyer. No, Ding Ding Ding, stuff is going
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off in your head. So what
are some of those things when you're talking
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pricing? Is it making sure it's
not at the very end of the call?
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It's it is making sure that you
leave some silence. What are some
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of those things that you're coaching reps
on? When I deliver pricing, do
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this, not that? Yeah,
so, I mean, you know I'm
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going to copy out all this with
it depends on what you sell, right,
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and and you know how complex the
pricing model is, because sometimes it
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truly genuinely does depend right, but
what you want to look. So there's
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two kind of lot, three philosophies. I'm the third one. One is
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you don't talk price at all and
you build value, value, value,
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value, so when you hit price
you can justify it. Right. The
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other approach is you talk price early
so you don't waste your time, right.
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So, but then you lose out
on potentially justifying why they should spend
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a little bit more. I'm a
little bit more of the middle ground where
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I kind of ballpark price early on
just to get a sense of are we
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even close? And if we're close, then I go value, value,
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value, and then I justified.
But a couple of things here. So,
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for instance, I do the give
get model on negotiations, which you've
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taught me. All right, John, or price right, right, happy,
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now for me. Look, I'm
happy to share you some ballpark pricing
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is on this initial discovery call right. Some people say no because it's again
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too complex. We have to get
to that later. But for me it's
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like, okay, cool, well, happy to share with some pricing here.
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How many reps do you want to
train? Do you want on site,
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you want remote? Do you want
online stuff? You know, and
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so I kind of talked about like
what's your average deals? So I get
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information from them and if they give
me enough information, like if they're open
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to giving me some of that kind
of qualification discovery information, then I'll usually
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give them a pretty good ballpark.
I'll say. You know what, based
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on that, you're probably in the
range of, I don't know, thirty
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to Fortyzeros, give or take.
And then what I used to do,
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you brought it up, what I
used to do is I would used to
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drop that price and then shut up
right and because I was always taught when
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I was a kid, you know, whoever speaks first loses in negotiations.
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Yeah, but I don't know if
anybody's else try that out there. But
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that is the most awkward thing on
the planet and it like it. I
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remember I did that one time to
a CFO and he knew exactly what I
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was doing. So I was like, so it's going to be, you
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know, if it was, this
is when I was selling it services,
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you know, that'll be FIVEZERO dollars
a month. And I sat there dead
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silent looking and it was this is
a facetoface meeting too, and I said
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there and I just let it sit. And this I could just literally sat
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there. He just waited to know
all he just want a smirk on his
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face. He was like, I
know what you're doing, sales or up.
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So he just sat there, and
I mean sat there, and if
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you've sat there for a minute in
silence, I found that feels like a
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year. Right. So finally I
was like, all right, fine,
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I spoke first. You Win,
right, but whatever. So instead of
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doing that, what I do is
I'll say, look, it's probably around
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thirty to Fortyzero. Is that in
the range of of what you'd expect to
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pay for something like this? So
that's my question. So I like that.
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Yeah, thirty to forty grant.
Is that in the range of something
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you'd expect to pay for something like
this? And if they as long as
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they're like okay, you know,
I mean yeah, it's probably be a
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little bit outside our range, but
we're not way out. Because if you
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because if I say thirty to forty
and you were expecting five, let's I'm
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not even gonna literally, I'm not
even going to bother with this conversation.
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I'm not like look, good luck. Yeah, which is why I I
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don't go with that model of value, value, value, value, price.
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Not Right. I know I've literally
been through a sales process where they
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made me sit through two sales calls. Then I got the price and I'm
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like, we're not. They're like, exactly, I've done it too.
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I'm we've all know. The REP
was frustrated. I was frustrated, right.
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But something you said there, John, is that really intentional? That
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what you would expect to pay,
as opposed to do you have this budgeted
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or how does that sound to you, or something like that? I I
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don't like. Well, so it's
my style, right. I know,
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like Richard Harris. You know Richard
like, he actually takes the more kind
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of a how do you feel about
that approach? Yeah, done that.
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It works for him. I've it
doesn't work for me. I've tried it.
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It just feels a little weird for
me to ask that, like how
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do you feel about that? But
Richard it works because it plays with his
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style. Right, mine is is
that, you know. That's why I
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say, is that something you'd expect
to pay for something like this? There's
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that the range of something like to
pay for something like this, because I'm
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there with you, like the in
that, and that nuance matters, right,
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of how you deliver it and how
you engage and how you try to
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get them to open up, because
I'm right there with you. Like if
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I can't tell you how many times
I've been in where the REP I've okay,
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you know, rep selling me something
and I'm like okay, well,
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like, what's the range here?
We even close? Well, you know,
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John, and they bring me through
their piece, get demo and all
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that other stuff and then they pop. I'm like, Dude, you just
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wasted both of our times, like
there's no chance I'm spending money like that
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on something like this. You know
what I mean. I get half of
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that stuff for free anyways. So, yeah, I think you do have
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to figure out that confidence level.
But you also going back to the confidence
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piece. The way you build confidence
is is a practice. This is why
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you know so, Morgan, here's
a good example. Morgan, when he
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came on board, he had to
get confident in delivering the price for us,
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right, because he had never sold
what we sold and we sell a
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service. So arguably, you could
peel it back and be like John,
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your hourly rate is five thousand dollars
an hour, you out of your mind,
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you know what I mean. And
and if you put it in context
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like that, then it's like,
oh my God, like the best lawyers
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in the world aren't five thousand dollars
an hour. So holy it, maybe
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I'm really expensive. But if you
put it in context of your ACV is
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Fiftyzero and if I get you one
extra deal, five thousand dollars. Like
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you know what I mean, like
I'm going to train thirty reps here,
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give each one of them one extra
deal. Thirty Reps Times Fiftyzeros, like
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okay, fine, I'll take a
percentage of your commissions. Then, how's
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that right? And then they always
yeah, yeah, exactly Morgan had to
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do was we practice right. So
we tear our accounts to your one,
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tier two, tier three, and
I don't think there's role playing, and
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I think role playings great, but
I actually like to consciously practice on clients
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and give my like I gave Morgan
the liberty. So are the baseline that
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you could buy from us is twenty
five hundred right, so for for ten
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licenses of our online cont twenty five
hundred bucks, and then it goes to
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five grand and then fifteen and then
up from there. So these twenty five
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hundred dollars, I'm not saying I
don't appreciate those customers. I obviously do,
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but I also don't worry if I
lose them, in the sense that
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if I lose if I'm in on
a call and they don't sign a move
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forward like a whatever. I'm moving
on. I want to get that,
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you know, fifty grand, a
hundred grand client. So what we did
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with Morgan we got a bunch of
those twenty five hundred ones in his pipeline
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and and I told him, I
want you to push, I want you
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to I want you to literally like
start the conversation with, look at bare
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minimum here. We're talking twenty five
hundred bucks and we don't discount, and
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just see how it lands, you
know what I mean. And he was
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like super like I awkward about it
up front, but then he got that
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confidence right to just because he kept
practicing. And then all of a sudden
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a couple of clients were like yeah, that makes sense, you know what
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I mean. So he got those. There were a few, no question
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that. We're like holy that that's
way more expensive than I'd expect to do
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some pace or something like this.
Okay, you're probably not our customer anyways.
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But then he got a couple.
Okay, like I just right before
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my system crash, before I got
on this call with you. I was
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on a sales call and this guy
came in, like referred by so and
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so, and the pricing came up
and without hesitation he's like so, what's
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he's like, I don't know.
If you have to know more information.
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I got know what you're talking about. Fifteenzero, it goes all done,
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you know what I mean. And
it wasn't even like there wasn't even like
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a well, I got to think
about that now. It guys like,
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Oh yeah, like I could have
probably taught him thirty grand and he would
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have been like, Yep, okay, cool, let's do this right.
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So I think practice. I think
also knowing your value right and and so
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many reps don't get the access to
the existing customers to see the real value
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that that their solution brings to those
companies. And if you genuinely were able
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to, and I recommend any company
do this, get a couple of your
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customers on a little zoom call and
have them and just talk, have them
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talk and do an interview about what
value do they get out of your solution
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and and how can they not live
without it and what does it allow them
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to do? Right and have the
reps listen to that. So then they
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see like holy it, for the
right client, man, we we are
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incredible. It what we do and
we make a difference. And when you
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can start to make that connection of
wow, our solution for the right client
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makes a genuine difference. Now,
when you find the right client, you
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have confidence in presenting that price and
when you find the wrong client, you
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have confidence in presenting that place because, yeah, because it self selects.
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They're like sorry, you're not a
good client for us. If that's what
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you think, then you're not.
You're not in our real sweet spot here.
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Yeah, Oh man, I love
that so much. I mean I've
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seen that in my own evolution heading
up sales here at sweet fish for the
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last two years. I mean initially
I was just so passionate about the strategy.
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That's why I joined that James had
kind of sold me on that well
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before he ever thought he was selling
me on it. But now, like
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I had a sales called earlier today
and they were like, I don't know
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if a podcast can be right for
us or people going to say yes to
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be in on a podcast. Boom. I had a story from three weeks
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ago of a customer because I knew
that story right now. That's easy for
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me. Is a sales team of
one and where a team of twenty five.
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I've got a closer intimate look into
those customer stories and I know our
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seventy customers. But if you're at
a bigger organization, you've got to go
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find marketing or you've got to go
fine cs and say, you know whatever,
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some of our our best fit customers
and go find those stories, because
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there's a big difference between me saying
hey, John, for VP's of sales,
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we drive data da versus hey,
we worked with Richard and boom boom,
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boom boom, and just telling that
story, which I think is something
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like you talked about the wording that
you use, versus, versus Richard Harris,
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and I think that's something that erodes
a lot of confidence. Like you
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here on a podcaster, you here
in a sales training use this line,
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but it's not something that you would
say. Like I'm with you. I
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wouldn't ask you in normal conversation,
John, how do you feel about that?
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John, had feel about the Patriots
in the Bronch Eyes? We can
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it's off my tongue, but like, would you expect to pay something like
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that, like I could ask somebody
that, like in normal conversation, and
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so finding like when you find something
that works, make sure that it can
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roll off your tongue just like it
would across the table from someone or across
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the room with a friend these days. Yeah, because that's the other thing
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that instills the confidence is I'm not
reading a script and it and it feels
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robotic, right. Yeah, I
mean, yes, you have to make
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it your own. I will say, though, in order to get better,
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you have to put you you have
to get uncomfortable, you have to
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do things that are slightly unnatural for
you, otherwise you won't know what that
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threshold is. You know what I
mean for sure. So I'll give you
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an example. Like I always talk
about confidence and ego, right, or
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being direct versus being rude. I
believe we all, as sales professionals,
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need to figure out what that line
is. We need to figure out what
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that line for us is of being
direct versus route. And unfortunately, you
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have to cross that barrier in order
to figure that out. So you have
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to push yourself to a point where
it's Oh, whoops, that that came
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across as route. Okay, now
let me self. Now let me just
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just down to kind of where my
comfort level is. It's the same thing
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with any technique, and this is
where Richard and I tomato, tomato.
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We talked about this as well as
as well, which is scripts versus structure.
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I'm a structure Guy. Give you
a structure. Let you play with
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that structure so you can kind of
figure out what your style is within that
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structure. Richard is script guy.
This is no. No. Read this
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script so you're fully prepared and if
you read it over and over and over
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again, eventually you will make it
your own and you won't need it.
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I could see the value in bolt
if I've done both. You know what
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I mean. But if it's really
not you, if it's really just that's
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why the beauty right now of all
these kind of sales influencers and everything that's
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going on right now on Linkedin,
you have the ability to go listen to
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how other people deliver something like that
and go, Oh, actually like that
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approach. You know what I mean, let me try that and let me
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make this my own and then you
roll play it a little bit and then
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you go and practice it on there
on the on the account of your tier
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three accounts and then you move up
to your confidence level there. So it's
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kind of a step by step process. Yeah, I like that too.
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Of You know, some people say
never practice on on your prospects, but
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I've always been like role playing is
own especially with tools like chorus and gone
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and everything else these days, like
it had. I would say, like
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I think that's maybe one of the
under utilized parts of those tools. Is
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like just for the next two weeks
we're only going to focus on this part
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of the call and we're only going
to review and coach on that part of
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the call, as opposed to trying
to boil the ocean and coach on everything
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and that right. Yeah, I
mean I like role play. I would
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say I'm not a fan of role
play. I don't I don't do role
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players in my trainings. I'm more
about live application that type of stuff.
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I understand the place of role play. I like role play when it comes
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to right before you're about to do
it. Yeah, so if you're about
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to run a call blitz, for
instance, do a quick little role play
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right before. I get the juices
flow and make sure that people are kind
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of in that mode and then go
immediately apply it. Or you're about to
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go into a meeting in a negotiation
with a client, sit down with your
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boss and say, I boss,
here's a scenario. I'm I'm going in,
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these are the two people that are
I'm meeting with. Here's where we
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are in this situation. I'm going
to deliver pricing. I know you're probably
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going to want it. They we're
going to want to discount. So can
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we kind of roll play this a
little bit? You object to me and
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that type of thing, and I
feel how to flow that cool. So
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I'm now prepared. Now I make
that phone call. So that's where I
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think will play. Is Huge.
Josh, what do you think is the
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most irritating thing for Beb buyers right
now? Man Logan, I love talking
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to you about this. You know
that the number one challenge right now is
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that many customer facing teams in the
B tob space right now are for seeing
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their potential buyers to buy the way
that they want to sell, and buyers
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don't want to buy that way right
now. They want to buy the way
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they want to buy. We need
to enable those buyers. We call this
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buyer enablement at sales reach. We
need to enable those buyers to make better
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decisions quicker in a comfortable environment that's
more personalized for them to move forward with
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that process to that's awesome. I
couldn't agree more. Since I've been using
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sales reach in my own sales process, it's allowed me to really enable the
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buyer to move more quickly in really
two ways. One, they don't have
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to download a bunch of attachments.
I can send them to one page with
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the proposal, case studies, different
resources because, let's face it, the
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proposal is just one part of the
sales conversation and probably only one sales enablement
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piece of content that you're sending.
So it makes it easier on them.
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And then the other thing is,
you know, we're selling to our champions
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and then we're making them have to
re give our pitch to the entire buying
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committee. So one thing I do
is put a custom two to three minute
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video on the top of my sales
reach page that says, Hey, here's
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all the resources, tie it back
to the conversation, here's the proposal.
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00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:06.869
Let me know if you have any
questions. And it allows me to give
410
00:24:06.910 --> 00:24:08.670
a little bit of kind of a
mini pitch to the rest of the buying
411
00:24:08.670 --> 00:24:14.420
committee introduce myself, which helps me
build trust in credibility and helps the buyer
412
00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:18.259
not have to repeat the entire pitch
from scratch. So if anybody is looking
413
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:22.380
to do the same thing in their
own sales process, I'd highly suggest they
414
00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:25.410
reach out to you in the team
over at sales reach. For anybody listening,
415
00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:29.410
just go to sales reach dot ioh
to talk to Josh and the team.
416
00:24:30.329 --> 00:24:33.329
Yeah, that's that's a really good
point, man, because as much
417
00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:37.410
as I'm kind of anti role playing, I've been in those when I sold
418
00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:40.960
copiers for ten years. Like we
rolled up to the office. I'm sitting
419
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.960
in the car with my manager.
All Right, asked me a couple questions,
420
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.240
like what if this question comes up? Paying me without boom, all
421
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.319
right, because then it's fresh in
your mind. You've just kind of it's
422
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.029
almost just like less role playing and
more of just a dry run. So
423
00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:59.230
I really like that approach to it. One last question on negotiation, John,
424
00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:03.029
and then I'm want to round out
the conversation today with a rapid fire
425
00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:07.140
five questions for you. You talk
a lot about you can't drive urgency based
426
00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:11.059
on your timeline. It has to
be on the customers timeline and when it
427
00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:15.859
comes to negotiation, getting that wrong, saying like when the buyer knows,
428
00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:19.299
hey, it's into quarter, I
can get a really good deal. How
429
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:23.089
do you flip that without being like
well, John, you said that you
430
00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:29.809
wanted to have this launch right and
making that not sound so so wrote.
431
00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:33.490
You know what I'm saying. To
where I John, what's what's your goal
432
00:25:33.609 --> 00:25:36.440
here? You know it's so that
you can deliver that. Well, what's
433
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.359
changed? Is this still going to
have the impact that you said it's going
434
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.720
to have if we don't move forward
anything that you've kind of you know,
435
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.720
coach Morgan on or you've seen reps
due to do that, but to do
436
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:49.869
it in a natural way. So, first and foremost, I think I
437
00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:55.349
want to make a one point about
negotiations and what makes it all a lot
438
00:25:55.470 --> 00:26:00.150
easier so that that scenario doesn't even
happen is a big fat pipeline. We've
439
00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:02.990
talked about this before, like give
you. That's why I prospecting. I
440
00:26:03.029 --> 00:26:04.740
don't care what you're doing, I
don't care how experience you getting sales.
441
00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:08.579
You got to get great at prospecting
right because if you have a big fat
442
00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:12.460
pipeline, the rest of this stuff's
easy. Like I don't really negotiate anymore.
443
00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:15.140
You know what I mean? I
do, obviously again throughout the whole
444
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:18.609
process I'm going through, but like, I never, I almost never,
445
00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:22.569
discount. I mean when I proactively
discounted, it was so weird because I
446
00:26:22.609 --> 00:26:26.369
don't think I've discounted ten years right, because I've got her. I'll probably
447
00:26:26.410 --> 00:26:30.329
five because I've gotten to the point
where I'm super confident and I constantly prospect.
448
00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:32.849
So I put myself in a position
where I want your business, I
449
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.640
don't need it, because if I
want your business, I sell the right
450
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.759
way, I close on your timeline
right, that type of stuff. If
451
00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:44.279
I need Your Business, I do
some shady it right. So, say
452
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:45.200
it comes to the end of the
month. You know, somebody asked me
453
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.109
John, you know, how hard
can you push, like, say it
454
00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:51.029
comes to the end of the month
and you got to close out your quarter,
455
00:26:51.069 --> 00:26:52.869
you've got to close out the month. How hard can you push the
456
00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:55.589
client to get the deal done?
And I said it's in direct pro portion
457
00:26:55.910 --> 00:27:00.309
to how much it's in their best
interest versus your best interest. If it's
458
00:27:00.349 --> 00:27:03.819
in their best interest, because they
need to implement this based on the timelines
459
00:27:03.859 --> 00:27:06.299
and the results of the impact and
all that other stuff, then you can
460
00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:10.259
and you should push as hard as
you want challenger sale all day long.
461
00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:14.259
Now, this isn't because they're going
to lose the discount by the end of
462
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:15.210
the month, by the way.
I just want to make sure that we're
463
00:27:15.250 --> 00:27:19.529
clear on that. Like discount selling, to me, is it because everybody
464
00:27:19.609 --> 00:27:23.890
knows the discount does doesn't go away? And Look, and let me clarify,
465
00:27:25.410 --> 00:27:29.210
proactive discounting. I got no problem
with a client asking me for a
466
00:27:29.289 --> 00:27:32.559
discount and then leveraging that, but
a rep like the problem that I did
467
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:34.880
was like I didn't do it the
worst case scenario, which is like it
468
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.200
came to the end of the month. The deal was going to close probably
469
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:41.519
next month, but my boss told
me we need more revenue this month.
470
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.750
John, you know I want you
to call every deal it's in your pipeline
471
00:27:44.750 --> 00:27:47.269
and off for twenty percent. I
feel sign this month like that is I
472
00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:51.430
wish managers would cut the and stop
doing that. You destroy the credibility of
473
00:27:51.470 --> 00:27:56.309
your organization and the Rep because when
that happens everybody knows the discount don't like.
474
00:27:56.430 --> 00:27:59.059
So usually what happens with that is
yeah, sure, no problem,
475
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:00.259
Logan. Yeah, well, will
do that. Want to hit me up
476
00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:02.900
at the end of the month?
Will definitely do that. And then what
477
00:28:02.980 --> 00:28:04.180
happens at the end of the month? They don't call you because they're end
478
00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:07.779
of the month. Happens too,
so they're crazy. And then they call
479
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:10.619
you on Monday or the first day
of the month also. Sorry, Logan,
480
00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:11.180
you know what I mean. Yeah, we're ready to move forward.
481
00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:14.529
Can we still you know, just
add that discount in and we'll get ready
482
00:28:14.529 --> 00:28:18.049
to go. What are you gonna
say? No, awkward situation. You
483
00:28:18.170 --> 00:28:21.970
either destroy your credibility or you take
them off, like there's no win there.
484
00:28:22.089 --> 00:28:23.609
Yeah, and I mean what it
like? Discount go wait, like,
485
00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:27.559
would your profitability change over the weekend? Shot? So, so final,
486
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.319
I'll just wait until the end of
next month. So this is why
487
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.960
the discovery is so important, and
and not qualification. Qualifications about us,
488
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.319
discoveries about them. What is the
impact of them? You should ask that
489
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.119
question. You brought it up,
which is hey, great timeline. When
490
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.829
you want to do this. Why
write what happens and then ask the question
491
00:28:44.950 --> 00:28:48.309
of what happens if it doesn't get
implemented on that timeline? Right? Because
492
00:28:48.349 --> 00:28:52.390
if it doesn't get implement and there's
really only two answers to that question,
493
00:28:52.910 --> 00:28:56.539
which is either there's there's impact.
Right, well, we're going to miss
494
00:28:56.539 --> 00:28:59.420
out on this milestone. We're going
for our series d around funding and we're
495
00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:00.259
not going to be able to get
it, or we're going to miss our
496
00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:04.460
quote or whatever that is. There's
some impact there, then you can and
497
00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:08.299
should push when that comes right.
But if the other the other answer to
498
00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:11.490
that is, you know, I
guess we'll just kind of keep doing what
499
00:29:11.569 --> 00:29:15.130
we're doing. You know you're in
trouble. You know you didn't find the
500
00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:18.170
reason. You're going to lose to
no decision if that's the case. And
501
00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:21.089
so when it comes, so what
I do is you and I have a
502
00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:25.079
conversation. I dig deep on that
impact, on the discovery and get in
503
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.720
there why you want to do this
and the impact that's going to have to
504
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.519
your organization and get you agree to
that. I then summarize that conversation.
505
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.680
I write it in a little summary
email. Hey, logos, great talking
506
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.400
today. Blows brief summary what we
talked about. Could you do me a
507
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:38.549
favorite? Email me back to let
me know if that's all accurate and if
508
00:29:38.589 --> 00:29:41.910
I missed anything, and in there
I say your time, you know your
509
00:29:41.029 --> 00:29:45.069
here's your current situation. Your priorities
are this, your timelines, this,
510
00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:48.710
here's the impact of it. Doesn't
happen right next steps bump right now.
511
00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.980
If you ghost me or if you
start pushing like that type of thing,
512
00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:56.059
I take at email, I fire
back to you and I'm like Halogan,
513
00:29:56.420 --> 00:30:02.259
like I'm okay, I kind of
understand. I'm a little confused, though,
514
00:30:02.859 --> 00:30:06.779
because you said that your priorities were
this, your timelines, this and
515
00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:08.529
those type of things, and now
you're saying you want to push this to
516
00:30:08.609 --> 00:30:11.809
q on. Now you want to
say you you know it's too it's you
517
00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:15.609
don't have the budget for it.
Either you don't believe that my solution can
518
00:30:15.690 --> 00:30:21.009
solve your problem or I'm missing something
here. What is it? I mean?
519
00:30:21.089 --> 00:30:23.440
Last q four of last year,
we sent Morgan sent out a whole
520
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.279
bunch of emails that said literally in
the subject line, what am I missing?
521
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.720
And in there it's said exactly that, hey, we've been working together
522
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.519
for a while now. Here you
confirmed that these were your priorities in your
523
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.029
timeline. At this point there's real
impact, there's real need for this.
524
00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:41.869
You know you told me this.
So again, either you do not believe
525
00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:45.390
that we are can fix that problem
for you, or you've gone into different
526
00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:49.380
direction with somebody else who has or
I'm missing something. What is it?
527
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:53.539
And we got a lot of responses. Sorry, yeah, you did.
528
00:30:53.779 --> 00:30:56.579
You know we actually shifted this or
whatever. Okay, cool. Well,
529
00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:00.099
John, it's it's key there,
right, because what Chris Voss says is
530
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:06.329
is negotiation is a process of discovery. So when you learn what's changed,
531
00:31:06.450 --> 00:31:08.970
oh, the svp of sales,
you know, is moving on or this,
532
00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:15.049
we change this where we got this
new initiative. Now it that sucks
533
00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:18.640
to hear that something's changed, but
it's better to hear that and well,
534
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.119
what's going on, and now you
can sell to the new situation. Yeah,
535
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.440
and you can even preempted to say
I mean I I do small stuff
536
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.240
along the way, like, Hey, you know Logan, as we go
537
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.680
through this process. If you need
something for me, I'll get back to
538
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.230
the twenty four hours. Right.
What should I expect from you? I'll
539
00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:36.950
say that and I you know,
the reason I ask Logan is because I
540
00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:38.109
don't want to be the annoying sales
rep. You tell me to wait a
541
00:31:38.190 --> 00:31:41.069
week. I wait a week.
Right. So I set the stage.
542
00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:42.109
Hey, Logan, and you okay
as we go through this process, are
543
00:31:42.109 --> 00:31:45.069
you okay with telling me no?
Sounds like a weird question. I want
544
00:31:45.109 --> 00:31:48.859
to let you know a I am
a hundred percent come, commment and comfortable
545
00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:52.099
with you telling me now, because
we rather people know. Yeah, we
546
00:31:52.220 --> 00:31:56.819
as sales people know. The only
thing worse than than a know is just
547
00:31:56.220 --> 00:32:00.220
nothing. Right. Maybe slowly response, so maybe right. Like I want
548
00:32:00.220 --> 00:32:02.410
to get to a guest or no
fast as I possibly can, and so
549
00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:06.730
I try to set the stage to
let you know I'm okay with a no.
550
00:32:07.210 --> 00:32:08.809
Yes, as we go through this
process. If, and I'll even
551
00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:10.490
kind of extend it, I'll say
look, a look, and as we
552
00:32:10.529 --> 00:32:14.410
go through this process, if it's
pretty evident to you that we are not
553
00:32:14.529 --> 00:32:16.559
a good fit for whatever you're trying
to accomplish here and I can't see it
554
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.039
for some reason because I got my
sales lens on here, are you okay
555
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.720
with tell me no? And it's
it usually takes them off guard and they're
556
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:27.960
like, but now with zoom,
it's like yeah, yeah, absolutely cool,
557
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.950
because love the look. And I
say the worst thing I need,
558
00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:32.910
the worst thing I could get is
a no response from you or a maybe
559
00:32:32.990 --> 00:32:36.710
or whatever it is, and then
I've become a stalker and it becomes weird
560
00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:39.670
and yeah, likes. Just spected
the elephant in the room right. There's
561
00:32:39.710 --> 00:32:43.509
a line I use all the time. It's like, look, in my
562
00:32:43.710 --> 00:32:46.859
role, there's a fine line between
being persistent and being a pest. So
563
00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:52.059
tell me when I've crossed that line
and I'll jump right back on the other
564
00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:55.019
side. But if I understand your
timeline, then that helps me stay persistent
565
00:32:55.180 --> 00:32:59.089
but not be a pest. I'm
just a sucker for an alliteration, but
566
00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:02.089
that's the said point. I like
that. Are you okay with with telling
567
00:33:02.170 --> 00:33:05.609
me now? All right, John, we're going to we're going to wrap
568
00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:07.809
it up with five rapid fire questions
and go for it. Yeah, go
569
00:33:07.930 --> 00:33:10.930
for it, John. If you
are hiring a new sales rep right now
570
00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:15.359
and you could pick one trait that
was just off the charts, everything else
571
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:20.680
could only be kind of men.
What would that one trait be? Great,
572
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:25.839
love it. You've got a huge
following on linkedin social in general.
573
00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:29.789
You know, you and I talked
on your podcast the other day about the
574
00:33:29.789 --> 00:33:32.509
importance of sales people building their own
brand. What do you think is it?
575
00:33:32.710 --> 00:33:36.869
are a few things that have been
key to you and building your brand
576
00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:43.660
that you think other sales people could
replicate? Educating yourself first. Don't build
577
00:33:43.700 --> 00:33:47.900
your brand just to build your brands. Do an authentic way. Focus on
578
00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:53.140
learning. Okay, ideally learning what
you're interested in, but also what your
579
00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:57.769
audience is, so your target audience
is interested in and then go follow thought
580
00:33:57.809 --> 00:34:00.730
leaders in those spaces who are writing
about that type of stuff. Read their
581
00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:05.130
stuff about the it the other industry
experts, because you don't have to be
582
00:34:05.250 --> 00:34:08.210
the content creator, you have to
be the content curator and you could take
583
00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:10.880
credit for other people's work, like
if I so I write a blog.
584
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.920
Right, if you read my blog, Logan, and you share it out
585
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:17.559
there and you put some context on
Hey, really good blog here by John
586
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:22.400
my key takeaways or Xyz Bullom,
and you share it out there. If
587
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.269
somebody's following you and they read my
blog and they like my blog, they
588
00:34:25.349 --> 00:34:29.829
don't thank me, they thank you. They don't say Oh, great blog
589
00:34:29.909 --> 00:34:32.070
John, they say hey, thanks
logan for sharing that blog. So you
590
00:34:32.190 --> 00:34:35.510
get all the credit. I did
all the work. So what you're doing
591
00:34:35.590 --> 00:34:38.300
there is, if you focus on
learning, first. Then it's authentic,
592
00:34:38.380 --> 00:34:40.780
right, because if you find something, and that's how I do it,
593
00:34:42.019 --> 00:34:45.940
is like whenever I find something that
I learn from, that's when I share
594
00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:49.179
it out there with my thoughts about
it, and it's authentic. And if
595
00:34:49.219 --> 00:34:52.099
you're not authentic, if you're just
spewing it just to try to get a
596
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:55.050
following, then you know you're going
to get called out eventually. But if
597
00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:59.449
you do it in an authentic way
and you learn first and then share,
598
00:34:59.489 --> 00:35:01.530
it's like you hear everybody share your
journey. That's what you don't care about.
599
00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:05.449
They want to put they don't care
about like your expertise, and I
600
00:35:05.489 --> 00:35:07.559
mean unless you get to a level
that are you were just, you know,
601
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.880
beyond. Most people care more about
the journey. Yeah, right,
602
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:14.320
so share that journey absolutely, man. I love that. It's right in
603
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:16.480
line with our core value. Have
never stopped learning here and you know,
604
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.199
as as the old saying goes,
when you teach something you learn it twice.
605
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:22.429
So, even if you don't build
the brand on the back of that,
606
00:35:22.789 --> 00:35:27.550
you've actually learned what you're learning better
because you've tried to teach it,
607
00:35:27.630 --> 00:35:30.550
you've tried to share it. All
right, number number three, of our
608
00:35:30.590 --> 00:35:34.349
rapid fire. John, what's one
thing that most people don't know about you?
609
00:35:37.659 --> 00:35:43.059
I'm pretty open book man. You
know something that that I'm proud but
610
00:35:43.820 --> 00:35:46.300
as tucked away on my linkedin that
no people, most people don't know is
611
00:35:46.780 --> 00:35:51.250
you know, I work for Jack
Welsh, for Ge Jack Welles, for
612
00:35:51.289 --> 00:35:54.650
about three months getting this online NBA
program off the ground and it was probably
613
00:35:54.769 --> 00:35:58.889
one of the cooler experiences I've ever
experienced in business. And it ties to
614
00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:02.730
something that I learned when I got
fired from staples. So I my little
615
00:36:02.769 --> 00:36:07.719
company, we fastest growing company in
Massachusetts, sold off to staples, spent
616
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:10.000
about a year going through the integration, got fired because I just don't fit
617
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:15.559
in the corporate world, obviously,
and the guy who fired me. There's
618
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:17.750
I do when I do training.
There's a closing technique the year this is
619
00:36:17.789 --> 00:36:21.389
called the door knob clothes, which
is effectively, when you lose the deal,
620
00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:23.429
you go back and you say,
he could you help me understand what
621
00:36:23.590 --> 00:36:28.110
what really happened here? Right and
it's not, then the cheesy sales approach
622
00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:29.750
is to flip it back. When
they say oh, no, no,
623
00:36:29.909 --> 00:36:31.150
and you could tell no, we
do that right, but I do it
624
00:36:31.230 --> 00:36:36.260
for my own personal professional development.
So the guy at this Guy Ja Baitler
625
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:38.619
at staples who fired me, who
ran a twelve billion dollar part of staples,
626
00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:40.980
I actually reached out to him and
I said, Hey, my own
627
00:36:42.019 --> 00:36:45.219
personal professional development, could you help
me understand what what, what happened here?
628
00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:49.610
And this guy who him and I
did this all year like he was
629
00:36:49.809 --> 00:36:52.769
so open to this conversation and he
said, John Barrels, you know,
630
00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:55.329
the fact that you reached out to
me to get feedback on this tells me
631
00:36:55.409 --> 00:36:58.969
more about you than I knew in
the year working with you. He's like,
632
00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:00.889
you have a year, you have
an hour of my time. I'll
633
00:37:00.889 --> 00:37:02.559
answer any question. So we went
through that. That was my MBA.
634
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:07.840
I literally learned more in that hour
than I had learned any like business class
635
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.280
I'd ever taken. Fast forward,
I get a chance for work for Jack
636
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:15.400
Welsh. I get Jack Welsh,
I'm sitting there interviewing it was a coolest
637
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:17.909
interview. We said that like fifty
times because he's from Boston too. And
638
00:37:19.070 --> 00:37:24.510
they wanted references and I gave them
Jay Baitler, the guy who fired me,
639
00:37:25.269 --> 00:37:30.940
as a reference, and Jay Baitler
said to Jack Welsh, if you
640
00:37:30.980 --> 00:37:34.619
don't hire John Barrows, you're an
idiot. Man. I love that story.
641
00:37:34.699 --> 00:37:37.420
I got to work for Jack and
susie wells for six months, for
642
00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:39.059
three months, and it was the
coolest. I mean the interview with Jack
643
00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:42.500
Welles was pretty much the coolest.
Like, I am a pants, like
644
00:37:42.500 --> 00:37:44.809
I'm sitting there. I thought I
was only going to meet with Susie,
645
00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:46.489
but because they had said well Jack
might show up, so they flew me
646
00:37:46.570 --> 00:37:50.730
down to Florida. It's this little
start up and I'm propound like, all
647
00:37:50.730 --> 00:37:52.329
right, I'm just going to meet
with and Susie's like baller to write,
648
00:37:52.329 --> 00:37:54.730
but I was like whatever. I
really wanted to be Jack. But okay,
649
00:37:54.769 --> 00:37:58.090
he's not going to be there and
I'm sitting there preparing it. All
650
00:37:58.090 --> 00:38:00.440
of a sudden he stands in the
doorway and he looks down at me.
651
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:07.840
Goes John Barrows, and I'm like
Jack Welsh, and I's like it is
652
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:08.960
is I get in here, let's
have a conversation, and I'm like,
653
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.469
I don't get nervous much often,
right, but I'm sitting across from the
654
00:38:13.550 --> 00:38:15.789
man, the myth of legend,
right, I mean this guy used to
655
00:38:15.829 --> 00:38:20.550
be my business idol and right,
we're growing up and I'm sitting across and
656
00:38:20.630 --> 00:38:22.670
I was about to ask him some
pretty direct questions because his all about Canada,
657
00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:27.139
right, and he had tied his
university to some piece of Chancellor University,
658
00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:28.860
and I was going to say,
Jack, Why did you do it?
659
00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:30.460
You could have gone to Harvard,
Yale, whatever, and he goes,
660
00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:34.860
before I even start talking, he
goes. So let me tell you
661
00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:37.340
about this Baggett College, chance of
university. I got myself involved as imported.
662
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:44.409
I made a mistake and I was
like Ah, two hours later,
663
00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:46.969
like I'll answered. That is so
it was. It was super cool experience.
664
00:38:47.369 --> 00:38:51.849
Oh man, that is fantastic.
Well, you might have answered number
665
00:38:51.969 --> 00:38:53.369
four for me, because I was
going to ask do you want to give
666
00:38:53.409 --> 00:38:58.039
a shout out to anybody who's been
just critical in your career journey? I
667
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.039
imagine it's it's Jay and Jack,
based on that story, right there they
668
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:06.000
were. You know, that was
a learning experience. Um, I'm going
669
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:10.670
to actually give a shout out to
Chris my crro Chris grew up with him
670
00:39:10.710 --> 00:39:14.869
when we were kids, like literally, is known the kids since I was
671
00:39:14.949 --> 00:39:16.949
five years old, and you know, east coast, west coast stuff.
672
00:39:17.030 --> 00:39:21.110
Here you know East Coast. Look, I'm forty five years old right,
673
00:39:21.150 --> 00:39:23.659
or about to be forty five.
When I'm growing up, like entrepreneurship was
674
00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:28.059
not it's just not in the DNA
of East coasters, right, like we
675
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:30.179
are a little bit more traditionalist whatever. Like growing up, literally, I
676
00:39:30.219 --> 00:39:35.300
thought Entrepreneurship and startups were for you
Weirdos out in California, right, and
677
00:39:35.539 --> 00:39:37.730
so I was the traditional like,
okay, I got to get a job,
678
00:39:37.809 --> 00:39:39.769
I got to do really good at
that job, I'm going to get
679
00:39:39.769 --> 00:39:43.929
promoted and all that other stuff.
But I didn't know that I was I
680
00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:45.969
was an entrepreneur. I didn't know
that I had that entrepreneur itch. But
681
00:39:46.050 --> 00:39:51.010
when I was in corporate it just
didn't feel right to me. There was
682
00:39:51.130 --> 00:39:54.079
something that wasn't there was eating at
me that didn't feel right and I kept
683
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:58.599
I kept it bottled up because I
knew I couldn't like just blow something,
684
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:01.360
blow it up. But then Chris, you know, I was down at
685
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:05.400
university in Maryland. I came back
to Boston. Didn't really tell anybody I
686
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:07.269
was back here because I didn't really
like growing up in my hometown and Chris
687
00:40:07.469 --> 00:40:10.030
was like one of my close friends. So I had heard from a friend
688
00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:14.590
of a friend that Chris had started
a startup company called thrived networks, and
689
00:40:14.590 --> 00:40:15.829
I kind of laughed because Chris was
such a cup in high school. It
690
00:40:15.829 --> 00:40:19.070
was ridiculous, like this Kild Grat, like there was a hundred and twenty
691
00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:22.019
five kids in our graduating class.
Chris graduated a hundred twenty four and they
692
00:40:22.059 --> 00:40:25.579
actually gave him credits to leave high
school. They were like please just leave,
693
00:40:25.659 --> 00:40:28.860
like he didn't have enough credits to
graduate. They were like please just
694
00:40:28.900 --> 00:40:30.420
leave, right. But he's that
entrepreneur, you know, that the person
695
00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:34.659
who just is different, right,
and I was like so, I kind
696
00:40:34.659 --> 00:40:37.250
of laughed. I was like,
you're a like you started a company,
697
00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:40.530
are you out of your mind?
But then I heard he had tied together
698
00:40:40.610 --> 00:40:44.409
with another buddy of mine from high
school who is the smartest kid I'd ever
699
00:40:44.449 --> 00:40:49.889
met my life, is kid Calvin. And so that was I joined thrive
700
00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:53.000
networks as the fourth employee and Chris
had the been the one that took the
701
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:57.639
pure risk, like started from zero, self funded. I'm more of a
702
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.480
calculated risk taker, so I need
to have some pieces in place before I
703
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.590
take the risk, but I usually
will take it if I see those pieces
704
00:41:04.630 --> 00:41:09.269
in place. So, Chris,
I don't without Chris starting five networks and
705
00:41:09.429 --> 00:41:14.269
me joining, I don't think I
would ever got I don't say never,
706
00:41:14.469 --> 00:41:16.909
but I think I would have slug
through the corporate world for a lot longer
707
00:41:17.030 --> 00:41:21.659
and been a lot more miserable.
And he got me kind of. He
708
00:41:22.219 --> 00:41:24.179
woke me up from an entrepreneur on
a standpoint, and so I'd say he's
709
00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:27.659
probably one of the bigger ones that
has an influence on my career and now
710
00:41:27.699 --> 00:41:30.300
I work with him every day because
he's my crow. I love it.
711
00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:32.610
Man, Chris is. Chris is
a good dude. I've had several conversations
712
00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:36.769
with him and I didn't know the
full backstory between you two. So I'm
713
00:41:36.849 --> 00:41:38.769
loving here in that story. All
right. Last thing, John, what
714
00:41:38.889 --> 00:41:44.969
do you think that the biggest factor
for success for sales reps as we round
715
00:41:44.969 --> 00:41:46.719
the corner into two thousand and twenty
one, and man, two thousand and
716
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:50.119
twenty has been a roller coaster.
Who the heck knows what two thousand and
717
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:52.000
twenty one is going to bring.
What do you think the key thing that
718
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:57.880
sales wraps out there should be optimizing
for focusing on learning, training themselves,
719
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:00.360
on if they, if they had
to pick one thing for the next three
720
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:07.030
months to bone up their skills on, has one thing. You know I
721
00:42:07.110 --> 00:42:08.789
mean I always say the secret to
success is working your ass off. It's
722
00:42:08.829 --> 00:42:13.909
not. It's not. There's no
secret sauce. It's really just like literally
723
00:42:13.949 --> 00:42:15.380
work in your ass off. I'm
not the smartest kid out there. I
724
00:42:15.460 --> 00:42:17.780
went to a state school, drag
my way through four years of college,
725
00:42:19.059 --> 00:42:22.340
but I know I cannot work you
and so, you know, I would
726
00:42:22.340 --> 00:42:25.019
say. I would say business acumen. I would say learn how to be
727
00:42:25.139 --> 00:42:30.650
a learned about business. Don't learn
about like whatever your product is, whatever
728
00:42:30.769 --> 00:42:32.929
the sales technique. You want to
learn about whatever it is. But when
729
00:42:32.929 --> 00:42:37.489
you can get to the level we
you are having business conversations with people because
730
00:42:37.530 --> 00:42:44.360
you've educated yourself on the industry,
you've educated yourself on business in general,
731
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:49.559
you'll find the conversations changed drastically.
Right when you stop pitching your solutions and
732
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:54.639
you start having conversations about your solutions
and you start having like just business discussions,
733
00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:00.590
like the sale ends up happening because
the person sees you as somebody who
734
00:43:00.630 --> 00:43:05.309
knows what the they're talking about and
actually has insightful things to bring to the
735
00:43:05.429 --> 00:43:10.309
table. So I would just consume
or get exposed to as much as you
736
00:43:10.389 --> 00:43:15.260
can from a business standpoint to learn. Go in your organization, ask your
737
00:43:15.340 --> 00:43:17.380
CEO to sit down for lunch and
pick their brain about why they started a
738
00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:22.940
business. Talk to your cfo about
what is you know, how to CFOs.
739
00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:24.380
Look at, you know, PNL's
on that type of thing, and
740
00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:27.809
why should I know about them as
a sales rep? You know, go
741
00:43:27.929 --> 00:43:30.170
to your tech team and understand,
like what's the implementation look like and why
742
00:43:30.170 --> 00:43:34.969
are we can figure you know what
I mean. Just absorb what it's,
743
00:43:35.130 --> 00:43:37.409
what it's means to be in business
and stop going through the motions to just
744
00:43:37.530 --> 00:43:40.250
hit your number for one, you
know what I mean, like or hit
745
00:43:40.329 --> 00:43:43.559
the you know, I got to
hit my fifty dials today, or I
746
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:46.760
got to get my ten S Qls, like that type of it is fine
747
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:49.800
and look, you have to do
that, no question about it, to
748
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.519
keep your job. But if you
really want to elevate, you know we
749
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:58.710
gotta got to elevate. Yeah,
and and if you want it to and
750
00:43:58.829 --> 00:44:00.469
if you want the grind, which
is never going to go away, to
751
00:44:00.590 --> 00:44:04.869
be less of a grind, you've
got to do that because, like you
752
00:44:04.909 --> 00:44:07.989
said, the conversations change. You're
in a place of confidence, you can
753
00:44:08.110 --> 00:44:13.460
hold your own with any executive.
I think that, man. As I
754
00:44:13.619 --> 00:44:15.940
think about it, and probably would
have been tough for me to answer that
755
00:44:15.019 --> 00:44:19.699
one too, but I think business
acumen it man. It's right up there
756
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:22.659
on the top of my list as
well. John, this has been fantastic,
757
00:44:22.780 --> 00:44:24.809
man. I really appreciate you coming
back on the show. I think
758
00:44:24.889 --> 00:44:29.010
this we had you on a few
times. My first time for me getting
759
00:44:29.050 --> 00:44:31.250
the pleasure to interview you. If
anybody's not already following you, what's the
760
00:44:31.329 --> 00:44:34.889
best way for them to stay in
touch with you? You guys have some
761
00:44:35.010 --> 00:44:37.329
new stuff going on with on demand
content, with JAB sales. What's the
762
00:44:37.409 --> 00:44:40.599
best way for them to learn more, stay connected with you guys and find
763
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:45.519
some resources? Yeah, I appreciate. So any you know j Barrows,
764
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:50.079
Jay Barrowscom, so jab arowscom.
You'll see everything there. You got our
765
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.750
blog. If you do training for
individuals, that's the new platform that we
766
00:44:52.869 --> 00:44:57.949
created, like Netflix for sales.
It's my it's everything that I train to
767
00:44:58.110 --> 00:45:00.230
sales for us, linked in all
these different companies for four hundred twenty bucks
768
00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:04.230
a year. So any REP can
get it and it's not just my stuff.
769
00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:07.139
It's Morgan stuff, it's James and
stuff, Richard Harris has stuff is
770
00:45:07.179 --> 00:45:08.699
in there. We're just going to
continue to put more and more content in
771
00:45:08.780 --> 00:45:14.260
there to build this community, to
try to level up and then obviously Linkedin,
772
00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:16.699
right. I mean I think Linkedin
is where my biggest audiences and and
773
00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:20.420
it's the fastest way to get in
touch with me. I actually, you
774
00:45:20.539 --> 00:45:22.369
know, the fastest way to get
in. This is for everybody out there.
775
00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:24.530
If you want some free consulting,
just have you up on instagram.
776
00:45:24.929 --> 00:45:30.369
So it's John M as and Michael
Barrows. That's my handle. That's where
777
00:45:30.369 --> 00:45:32.889
I'm doing all Free Consulting and coaching
right now for sales reps out there and
778
00:45:32.929 --> 00:45:36.519
needing some help. I love him
and John, thank you so much for
779
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.480
making time for us today. This
has been fantastic conversation. Dude, awesome.
780
00:45:39.519 --> 00:45:46.280
Thanks for me. I'm going to
appreciate it. Is the decisionmaker for
781
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:51.309
your product or service a bdb marketer? Are you looking to reach those buyers
782
00:45:51.469 --> 00:45:57.030
through the medium of podcasting? Considered
becoming a cohost of BB growth? This
783
00:45:57.190 --> 00:46:00.429
show is consistently ranked as a top
one hundred podcast in the marketing category of
784
00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:06.380
Apple Podcasts, and the show gets
more than a hundred and thirtyzero downloads each
785
00:46:06.500 --> 00:46:09.340
month. We've already done the work
of building the audience, so you can
786
00:46:09.380 --> 00:46:15.820
focus on delivering incredible content to our
listeners. If you're interested, email logan
787
00:46:15.980 --> 00:46:16.380
at sweet fish Mediacom