3 Areas Where Agility Leads to ABM Success, with Colm Shalvey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:20.160 Hey, it's Friday's episode and excited that you're here with us. My name 3 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:24.960 is Benji Block, host of B Two B growth, and on Fridays we 4 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:30.280 share throwback episodes, and so today our featured conversation will be one that, 5 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:34.600 uh, we had with column Shelby, and we're going to talk about how 6 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:38.719 to gain a B M success through really three key areas that you can focus 7 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:44.000 on and having agility in those areas leading to to your success. Wanted to 8 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:48.240 just say if you were unaware and you're noticing a few less episodes in your 9 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:50.920 feed from B Two b growth, it's because we've gone from a daily show 10 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:55.200 to three episodes a week for this season as we prepare some new things, 11 00:00:55.439 --> 00:01:00.679 exciting things, things that I know will resonate with this audience, and so 12 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:06.879 thank you for your continued, ongoing support of this show. We really do 13 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:11.840 appreciate that and we're working at all times to make this the best show it 14 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:15.879 can be and I want to continue to help you in your marketing efforts. 15 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:21.959 So, with that being said, I hope you enjoyed this episode and that 16 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:26.280 it helps fuel your innovation in your continued growth. This is our conversation with 17 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:32.959 column Shall Bey on three areas where agility leads to a B M success. 18 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:41.719 Enjoy. Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet 19 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.719 fish media, your host for today's episode. I'm joined today by column Shelby. 20 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.040 He is the head of a B M over at trip actions column. 21 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:51.480 Welcome to the show. How's it going today? Man, it's great. 22 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.439 It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely we're gonna 23 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:57.439 be talking about why you need to be agile with your a b m motions 24 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:01.599 and what that really looks like when you move that way with your a B 25 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:05.359 M campaigns. But before that we love to get to know our guests a 26 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:07.560 little bit calm so, you know, one of the things I think that 27 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.240 tells you a lot about a person is maybe their taste in music. Is 28 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:15.159 there a spotify playlist that has been your go to during this time of social 29 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:20.879 distancing, isolation and quarantine during the pandemic? There hasn't, but what there 30 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.199 has been is so I have a fourteen year old stepdaughter and she lives on 31 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:28.280 Tiktok. So I have now built out my music taste to include all these 32 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:30.280 songs from Tiktok. So I am, I like to say I'm very hip 33 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:35.039 and cool. She disagrees, but I feel I'm very forward when it comes 34 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:38.080 to my music taste at this point. I love it, man, I 35 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:40.599 love that peek into your world. We're all dealing with different family dynamics, 36 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:46.000 different everything these days. Um, but one thing that you are very passionate 37 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:50.000 about in having a lot of experience in a B M, is that you 38 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:54.080 need to be agile, you have to have a dynamic approach and nowhere or 39 00:02:54.240 --> 00:03:00.439 no time, I think, has that been more important than in so give 40 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.400 us a little bit of context and why this is something that you're so passionate 41 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:08.759 about as we kick off this conversation about how other marketing teams can take an 42 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:12.960 agile approach to their a B M efforts. Absolutely, yeah, so, 43 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:15.400 I mean a B M my journey and there has you know, I started 44 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:19.360 at the really traditional end of you know, there's ten strategic accounts that next 45 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.199 sweek right where, you know, hyper focused massive accounts. But what's really 46 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:27.280 happened is, and then, as I paid attention to, is technology has 47 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:29.840 allowed us to scale a B M right. So now we can reach far 48 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:31.800 more accounts, you know, at a far better and more efficient rate than 49 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:36.400 we ever could before. Uh, and we start to blur the line between 50 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:38.759 a B M and traditional demand GM. And how do we kind of cut 51 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:42.360 that? And for me that's where, you know, being dynamic and Agile 52 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:45.199 has kind of, you know, become the way to go forward. Right. 53 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:47.199 So, for example, a team like ours, we have commercial, 54 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:52.039 mid marketing enterprise and I have very different strategies for you to those segments. 55 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:55.319 But when we talk commercially, you're talking to three thousand target accounts, right, 56 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:58.159 because we have a lot of reps and we have a lot of volume 57 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:00.199 and there's a you know, there's a very quick turnaround there on those kind 58 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:04.280 of transactions. So I'm not going to go after three thousand accounts all the 59 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:08.479 time. Right. It's it's inefficient, doesn't cost you know Um, and 60 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:11.879 also it just doesn't make sense from a business perspective. Right. You know, 61 00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:14.719 even on the enterprise side we have clients that will have a two or 62 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:16.279 three their contracts, right, and sometimes we will after them, sometimes we 63 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:20.040 won't. But what we want to make sure we do is when an account, 64 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:25.199 when you know an organization is in that buying cycling, that research cycle. 65 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.120 How do we make sure that we maximize our impact and get in front 66 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:30.879 of them right? And that's where being agile dynamic for US comes in, 67 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:32.639 and we use that, you know, with the tools we have. But 68 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:38.399 I mean ultimately the concept is, if you're interested in what we're selling, 69 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:41.839 how do I make sure that our messaging is what you see first and foremost 70 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:46.120 right and consistently across personas, etcetera, etcetera, and that's what kind of 71 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:47.759 been my focus over the course of years. But I think, as you 72 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:53.560 alluded to, hyper focused here in the time of Covid as, we've kind 73 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:58.600 of just had to also respond to incredibly changing market conditions on literally a weekly 74 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:03.600 basis. Yeah, especially being a travel focused company, with everything that's gone 75 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:08.160 on this year, I'm sure that being agile beyond just a B M has 76 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.560 been, you know, just the name of the game. It's the IT's 77 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.399 front and Center for you guys every every day you wake up in the morning. 78 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.120 What do you think it looks like to to be agile with your a 79 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:23.720 b m campaigns versus not during kind of normal times or during the midst of 80 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:28.199 a pandemic? What are some of those characteristics where you see, okay, 81 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.000 this is, this is clues to me that there is not an agile approach 82 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.399 to a b m within this organization. And then the flip side of that, 83 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:39.560 what are some of the counterpoints where you you see, okay, they 84 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.079 are going about it the right way, there is this agile approach to a 85 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.920 b M. Yeah, so, just coming from my experience and what we've 86 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:48.279 done. So there's two layers, right. So first of all, I'm 87 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:51.399 very data driven, right. So the more data I can get the better. 88 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.600 So for us that means when I have a platform, we use terminus 89 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:59.839 for a B M platform. We integrade Bumbar, we integrate our website activity 90 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.680 in the great sales activity. So I use all those signals as triggers. 91 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:05.480 Right. So when I build an account funnel, you know, the ones 92 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:11.040 that are showing no activity anywhere are off the funnel. Those are showing third 93 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.240 party intent by a Bumbar are just starting the research phase. So I have 94 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:16.519 a plan of action to go after those kind of accounts. Uh, those 95 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.560 that are engaging on the website, right, so they're they're down to that 96 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:24.040 vendor selection process. I have a very different set of tactics for there where 97 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.240 I'm really trying to influence them and make them pick that step of filling out 98 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.120 the form, the Demo, we use direct mail, et CETERA. And 99 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.800 then sales activity. That's where we get a lot more you know, targeted 100 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:38.040 and focus. So that's very personalized. That's one to one. You know, 101 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.959 sometimes will have specifical landing pages built for an account. Sometimes we'll do, 102 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:43.920 you know, very fancy direct mail, which we've had to pivot on 103 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.199 that because you can't mail anything to an office these days for obvious reasons. 104 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.920 Um. So that's kind of where we look at it from the account perspective. 105 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:54.240 When I'm looking into an account, things change drastically. So we are 106 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:58.079 a leading traveling and expense matching platform, right. So you know there's the 107 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:02.639 traditional personas that we go after. Finance people in travel operations sometimes leads that, 108 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:05.879 but as we get into Covid, all of a sudden HR NOWs involved, 109 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:09.720 right, so they have a hand in the decision because all of a 110 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.759 sudden duty of care, which was always kind of a thing that was a 111 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:16.279 secondary, tertiary consideration, is primary. Right. Like when we talk about 112 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.360 travel, we have to think about safety first. And foremost, and that's 113 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:24.360 where HR and some of those people, uh people, titles, now come 114 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.480 into play. So how do we pivot our message? How do we kind 115 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.839 of address those folks, give them content, to give them things that add 116 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.240 value? And that's kind of just a brief kind of overview of like how 117 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:38.920 we are Agile, kind of on a going forward basis, but also how 118 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:42.920 we pivot based on a se conditions that no one could have predicted. There's 119 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.240 also what's interesting about interesting is probably too nice of a word, but what's 120 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:51.480 interesting about the covid challenge, right, is it has it's not a single 121 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:56.519 event, right. So when this all started happening in March Um, you 122 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:00.879 know, we there's expectations within the US, and you know my family's Narrowland, 123 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:03.720 that this would be a month, two months, maybe three, right. 124 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:05.600 But then as we've kind of gone forward, I mean that that timeline 125 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:09.399 has changed, right, and now we're in this position where things are still 126 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.720 unknown and unsure. So it's like how do we one time? You know, 127 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:15.519 it's one thing to have a message that says, Hey, you're gonna 128 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.040 be traveling in six weeks, right, you want to make sure you're ready, 129 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:20.639 you're safe, you're all those things right, and that was what we 130 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:22.040 wanted to make sure that we got our clients. You know, we did 131 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.839 this for our customers, but also prospects. All of a sudden, six 132 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.879 weeks later, it's like you're probably not traveling yet, and now okay, 133 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.680 so here are the things that you do to put in place right. So 134 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:33.919 how do you make sure that you travel management platform is ready, that you 135 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.120 have your people on board so when they do travel they're already in the system? 136 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:43.039 How do you streamline your expense process, all these kind of other things. 137 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.679 So again, the message changes with time because we are adapting to a 138 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:50.960 an event that does not have a exact horizon, right, which is again 139 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.080 the challenge, which is why I can't you know, this is the plan 140 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.799 for the next three quarters, right, that just isn't a feasible approach, 141 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:01.639 right, you know, in today's Environ and yeah, so I would say 142 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:03.720 one of those tip offs too we're not being actual is this is our plan 143 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:07.919 for the next three quarters. You know, the antithesis of what you just 144 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:11.559 said, and the way I kind of break it down column is you talked 145 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:16.159 about being agile in three key areas. One was based on the stage of 146 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.480 the account based on that engagement, third party engagement, direct engagement, sales 147 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.240 engagement. So that would be one. Shifting your tactics and your messaging based 148 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:30.000 on the stage there. Number two would be if your buyer persona shifts and 149 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.879 you need to start to engage a different buyer persona that is either, you 150 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.720 know, climbing in importance in the decision making process or new to the decision 151 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.519 making process, like in your instance. And then third, based on market 152 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:45.559 conditions and how those are changing. And nowhere has there been as much change 153 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.320 as in this year, but even outside of a pandemic, that is something 154 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.840 important to keep in mind. I'd like to talk a little bit more about 155 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:56.360 that first one, because I think that applies whether you're in a space that's 156 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:01.080 shifting so much, like you guys are in travel, or in somewhere else 157 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:05.200 where the direct impact isn't being felt as much, and that's those stages. 158 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.480 So you mentioned like not using the same tactics if they're at that third party 159 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.440 intent kind of early stage, versus, you know, on the website, 160 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.240 versus sales. Can you tell us a little bit of maybe where you've seen 161 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:22.000 some pitfalls of using the wrong channel or the wrong messaging based on where they're 162 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.879 at in their engagement stages there. Yeah, I mean I think so. 163 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.039 The first thing is it's very easy to say that we should use intent, 164 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.240 right, but what I found is it's really worth taking the time to identify 165 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.440 what is real intent versus noise. So bomboard is a great example, right. 166 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.960 They track literally thousands of topics and when they do an analysis for every 167 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:45.480 client, which is what they do, they tell you here are the topics 168 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:50.480 that your perspective customers are surging on when they before they become customers, and 169 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.679 you will see that you'll get a hundred, two hundred different hits. There's 170 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.039 no way that all of those are relevant, right. There's so many things 171 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.840 that are happening at the same time. They are just and are just noise. 172 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.679 So taking the time to identify what's real intent. So we track about 173 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.600 fourteen topics today. You know, some of those are general topics, but 174 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.639 then some are specific custom competitors. We also work with them to actually add 175 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:15.960 our own brand as a trackable topic, which took a little while but we 176 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.799 got that. But then so I tracked fourteen topics, but I only actually 177 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.480 make decisions off of four right, so I take the ones that are most 178 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.519 aligned with our business. The other ones are important but they're more tertiary. 179 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:31.120 So it's like if you're showing interest in business travel management, for example, 180 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.159 and you're showing interest in X, Y Z, that's you know, that 181 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:37.519 helps the rep kind of target their message. It also helps me target my 182 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.879 messaging when I'm saying, okay, if their business travel management and expense management, 183 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:43.759 all right, this is this is a finance approach I want to kind 184 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:48.399 of drill into. You. Basically look at those top four to determine their 185 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.519 overall engagement rate, but you look at the other ten, not to determine 186 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.559 where they're at, but to determine how do we customize the messaging based on 187 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:01.360 where they're at for those those key for that you're looking at exactly totally is. 188 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.360 So you think of the four is kind of the those are binary. 189 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.039 You're you're interested or not interested, and the others are how do I then 190 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:11.519 message you? You know, because again, trial management. Of course we're 191 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.480 a trial management company. All our messaging has an element of that. But 192 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.240 how do we really tweak it to make it specific to that account and hit, 193 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.440 hopefully, what we assume are their pain points, given their search restream, 194 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.320 and then we kind of do the same at increasing levels of granularity down 195 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:28.639 the funnel. Right. So website. What what assets are they engaging with? 196 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.840 What pages are engaging with? From there we can extrapolate what personas are 197 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:35.799 interested versus not. Um, what their pain points are, you know, 198 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:41.399 are they downloading a duty of care guidebook or are they looking for how to 199 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:45.279 reduce expenses? Right, and that allows us again to target what we're going 200 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.720 to say next. And then sales. That's where I work very, very 201 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.039 closely with the team. We use outreach from a sales enablement, from a 202 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:54.720 sales outreach perspective, and I'm there every day. Right. And how do 203 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.600 what messaging is working, what a B test for certain sequences is engaging or 204 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.759 not, and now how do we tweak and learn, et Cetera, right, 205 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.080 Um, you know. And then we kind of take the next step 206 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:07.840 within that. We use path factors, right, for content. So, 207 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:11.440 okay, now you know, this is the content hub that we're sharing with 208 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:15.639 the finance persona. Within that content of what pieces are they engaging with? 209 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:18.120 Right. So when we have an assumption of what finance cares about, what 210 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:20.480 does the data show us. Look, okay, we need more of this, 211 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.639 less of this. Right, this is fluff, this is not you 212 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:26.960 know, and then that's kind of you know. So again the mob that 213 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:31.960 the thinking model is the same. It's just what data points do I have 214 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.120 at each stage? Just hopefully make those decisions. The other thing I've I've 215 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:41.960 learned uncomfortably at times, is don't get too specific. Right, just because 216 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:46.080 you think x, Y Z means I have to say exactly this. Um, 217 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:48.919 it's so easy to miss the mark, right. So always kind of 218 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.000 take that level of what is going to be most relevant to this account, 219 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.039 to the VP of finance, but also a director, also a manager, 220 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.080 right, because you know, we don't know exactly what level of the organization 221 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.159 is leading the you know that research, research. So don't get way down 222 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.240 the weeds like here is something that's just for a CFO, right, because 223 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:07.639 that's an audience of one. Right, maybe two if there's a you know, 224 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.320 an ambitious vp in there. Right. But ultimately that that's a lesson 225 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.879 I learned where you know you have this perfect content, you think that lines 226 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.879 of exactly what the data signals and you launch it, you push it and 227 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:22.200 it has nothing right. So be aware of how the limitations of the data 228 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.279 and also like my own biases. Just because I think it's relevant doesn't mean 229 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:31.639 it is right interesting. So in this world of being so customized and so 230 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:37.759 personalized, you've found that at times you can get too specific and you alienate 231 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.360 other people within the buying committee. Are there any other things, if you 232 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.320 guys have used path factory and other tools to look at the content consumption data, 233 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:52.279 where you were surprised or you realize that maybe testing it a little bit 234 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.120 of a different way lead to a different result, that you didn't see anything 235 00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:01.039 surprising, as you guys have more regularly done that, that audit and that 236 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.480 analysis of the content consumption. Yeah, there's two things that kind of stood 237 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.960 out in the last I would say three or six months. We have outstanding 238 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.919 content team. Uh, you know, they do great work. But what 239 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.720 we found is we've at times made the assumption that this is an asset that 240 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.799 is relevant to travel managers, exclusively. Right, and what we found is 241 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:22.519 travel management and people who are invested in the travel decision in the company are 242 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:26.240 actually much broader than that. Also, you know, we've worked with partners 243 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.919 and we found that, you know, something like the people who managed to 244 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:33.840 travel and organizations in the US don't have travel manager in their title right. 245 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:35.879 So it's like, you know, it's this kind of very flexible, you 246 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.600 know, stakeholder situation. So we found that assets that we had lined in 247 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.440 a certain persona are actually brought than that right. So kind of don't restrain 248 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:46.559 it to okay, this is only for finances, is only for procurements, 249 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.600 is only for HR and and some have they have life beyond that. The 250 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:54.720 other that inform column. If someone recognizes that, hey, I want to 251 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.960 test and see if this content applies to a broader set of the buying can 252 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.600 entity. What is that then change tactically for you? Before we get onto 253 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.559 that second surprise. You know, that's a great question. And what we've 254 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:10.559 done is so we've worked with commanded message around value cards and how do we 255 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.240 align our solution with value with the problem, right, and all these kind 256 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:18.080 of steps. So That's enable us to them break content down and see, 257 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:22.679 okay, this actually addresses multiple areas, right, that we we assumed again 258 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:25.720 it was very narrow and it's actually not. And what it enables us to 259 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:27.600 do was the next step we took was we took this one asset. We 260 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:33.720 built three similar assets that were specific to the problems, that were more aligned 261 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.759 personas and allowed us then to kind of get even more granular and down, 262 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:41.559 because we found okay, this broader topic actually really resonated across a lot more 263 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:44.120 levels, but we needed to get a little bit deeper to give the you 264 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.399 know, the persons download the assets the value that they're looking for. So 265 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.080 you kind of go back up a level, revisit that piece of content and 266 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.639 now break it into okay, we need an A, B and c version 267 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:59.159 of this same content that's mostly the same but a little bit more tailored to 268 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:03.639 that HR leader versus the OPS leader versus, you know, the finance leader. 269 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:07.000 Absolutely, yeah, you are. And the other thing that's been incredibly 270 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.039 helpful on that is brought in the channels, right. So taken that e 271 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:11.559 book, for example, or that guide, but then when you have a 272 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.839 Webinar you really get to see some of the feedback because of the questions that 273 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.240 come in. We've also launched an office hour program right which is a lot 274 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:22.240 more low touch, but the topics and questions that have come out of that 275 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.960 have really guided some of the content conversations we've had internally. Right. It's 276 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.920 like, okay, this is what people really care about. A great example 277 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:33.519 is unused tickets, right, which seems like a niche, you know, 278 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.640 specific thing for a travel manager. It actually resonated all the way up to 279 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.160 CFO level because in certain accounts, you know, that's hundreds of thousands of 280 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.400 dollars, right. That's a real impact on the balance book. So we 281 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.200 we found that we got that question a lot and then we really dove into 282 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.680 that and gave you know, a lot more detail there. We released a 283 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:56.000 couple of assets specifically by that topic. You know, we ran some more 284 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.640 webinars with third parties. So that was a great example of like taking an 285 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.480 asset and then all of a sudden, within six day weeks, that has 286 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.319 new life across multiple channels and multiple persons. Yeah, I love that. 287 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.839 So you mentioned one of the things that was surprising was the content had a 288 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:12.279 broader appeal. If you notice that, those are some of the things you 289 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.079 want to do about it. What was the other thing that you mentioned was 290 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.920 surprising, as you guys have dug into the data on the content, what 291 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:23.480 was aligned with decision makers versus influencers? And, as you as we use 292 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:27.920 full circle to really track the funnel. We also used terminus account help to 293 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.839 kind of see all the touches within an account and to actually see how many 294 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:37.680 times a certain asset was involved in how many deals, versus what assets were 295 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.680 aligned with the specific person who was making a dubuying decision. Right. So 296 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.440 it actually, you know, it opened up the you know, the window 297 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:47.440 of like, oh, even though the numbers on this are high, for 298 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:52.319 example, in terms of volume, it doesn't actually really impact deals the way 299 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:55.480 we expected to, whereas this one, which is a much narrow focus and, 300 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:59.160 you know, we actually thought was underperforming, it is actually an essential 301 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:03.400 piece of, you know, of the buying decisions. Right. So each 302 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.720 of these deals had this asset along that person's journey in some way or fashion, 303 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.799 even though the account was a tenth of what, you know, our 304 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:12.319 top performing asset, which kind of brought people on the top of the funnel. 305 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.960 But a lot of those people are just looking to inform themselves and that's 306 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.880 one of the things we we we pride ourselves on, right. It's something 307 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.359 we want to do, is we offer content and resources to the industry. 308 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.160 That the whole you know, we've we've kind of put ourselves a leader there, 309 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.920 but that also gives you a lot of false falseless right in terms of 310 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.920 like are you interested or you just interested in the industry? Both are valuable, 311 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.880 but not for us when it comes to making a sale. Yes, 312 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.720 so basically, what I hear you're saying there is you want to kind of 313 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:44.519 divide out the consumption of that asset based on the actual persona and at the 314 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.079 end of the day, were they a decision maker or or an influencer? 315 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:52.000 Because that is going to help you determine was there just engagement on that content 316 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:56.319 or was there true deal influence happening because of that content? No, great 317 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.960 question, and we we looked at both. So netline, as a consentdication 318 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.359 ender, we worked very closely with and what they do, which I love, 319 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.960 Um, they really break down the consumption of each asset by the persona 320 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.599 that actually consumed it. Right. So we saw, okay, these are 321 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:14.279 assets resonate with these levels of an organization. On the flip side, you 322 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.160 know, what you kind of alluding to your part of your question is what 323 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:21.400 ones were actually part of the process and the journey for that, you know, 324 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.319 for that deal cycle, Um, and that's where we saw, you 325 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:27.119 know, this specific e book in our example seemed to always be consumed at 326 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:30.720 least by a VP or CFO at some point in the buying cycle before sale. 327 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.559 Right. So it's like this was a crucial touch point where that was 328 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.480 grove their interest, that was shared with them, Um, and they consumed 329 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.880 it and it also kind of drove the conversation forward, right, because good 330 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.400 assets ask as many questions as they answer, right. So it's like, 331 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:47.680 Oh, this is what we can do, like, I want to learn 332 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:48.599 more about the how do you do that? You know, how do you 333 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.880 make that work the way you're describing Um, and that's where we kind of 334 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:55.799 found that they were a crucial part of the you know, and we have 335 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:57.559 when we talk about attribution, we have obviously multi touch as well as the 336 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.079 direct line of attribution, and the is are the ones who actually fell into 337 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:04.039 direct line attribution. Right. This is a decision maker that actually touched this 338 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.720 asset on the way to a deal. Yeah, yeah, really interesting. 339 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:12.079 So I think there's a number of number of things that that you share there 340 00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:18.720 and how marketing teams can look at the content consumption to a deeper level once 341 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.839 you kind of have these things in place. One of the things you mentioned 342 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:26.839 earlier column that I thought might be applicable to folks who maybe are earlier on 343 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.599 in their a B M journey than where you guys are at trip actions. 344 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.640 Obviously you've got a lot of tech in place. You're going deeper and and 345 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.240 you've kind of figured out all right, this is level one of kind of 346 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:40.079 looking at the data. It sounds like you guys are three or four levels 347 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:44.400 deep. One of the challenges that I know everybody is facing, even if 348 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:49.039 they're somewhat simple or early in their a B M motion, is incorporating some 349 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:53.640 sort of direct mail, and you mentioned the challenges there that everybody is kind 350 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.279 of facing. Have you guys come up with any creative solutions to the direct 351 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.480 mail component then, since you can't mail stuff to offices today? No, 352 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.839 it's uh a laugh because I mean it's been the baning of my existence over 353 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:11.359 the last three months. So we had a really impactful direct mail program right. 354 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.279 It was, you know, it really was. It was generating more 355 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.240 pipeline than, you know, most of other channels other than, you know, 356 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:19.480 the traditional paid search, digital kind of things. Um, and obviously 357 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.319 that went away in March. It just turned off like a light switch. 358 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:29.279 So we actually tested ten different iterations of digital direct mail. Right. So 359 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:33.640 we use two vendors. We use SANDOZA and we use snappy, and both 360 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.119 have different kind of experiences. But we tested everything, you can name it, 361 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.920 and what we've found is so email has become a really convolutory channel right 362 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.519 now. I mean there's so much email going and everyone lives in from the 363 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.799 computer, but it's it's actually harder to get through there. So what we 364 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:53.559 what were we found successes, is integrating direct mail into the sales communications, 365 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.599 right, so it's not a separate thing. At the same time in parallel. 366 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.319 It's it's truly one to one. I want to talk to you, 367 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:03.079 you know, I realize your time is important. Um, we try to 368 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:06.880 be, UM, as empathetic as possible. Right, like, give you 369 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:08.319 work from home, right. How can we make that easier? Right? 370 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:11.839 And you know, certain things are you know, we've through snap, we 371 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.240 offered work from home gifts. Right, so there's a lumbar pillow, there's 372 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.960 microphones, there's headphones, I mean all these things that people all of a 373 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.200 sudden need that we want to kind of help with. On on the Sendoza 374 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.160 side, it's you know, do you want Um, I know for me, 375 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.920 and again this is my own bias, like cooking is the worst, 376 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.440 right, when you're cooking every day, you've got kids, you're just all 377 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:36.319 these things. So it's like if you give mecks on Uber eats or door 378 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.640 dash, like that's real value. I appreciate that. That actually saves me 379 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:41.279 time. And you know the way we communicative, that is, Hey, 380 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.400 we realize your time is important. We would love to chat with you thirty 381 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.039 minutes. We we think that you, you know, are solution lines up 382 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:52.039 to you. Well, how about we give you some time back by by 383 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:53.880 a delivery service so you can spend that time with us and you know and 384 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:56.759 we have a good conversation. So those are the kind of things that we 385 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:00.400 found at work. And again, I would love to see, like I 386 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.160 woke up on March thirtieth and said this is the way we're going to do 387 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.839 it. But we we tried so many different angles and tests and tries Um, 388 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.880 and just with almost zero success. Right. I mean it was it 389 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:15.599 was truly just churning out ideas and losing them. And again we're still testing 390 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.400 and making things better, but that's kind of where we are today. And 391 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.920 now we're like, okay, within that framework, how do we enhanced that? 392 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:23.599 Make that better, make that more relevant, more empathetic, more, 393 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.119 you know, personable to the person that we're trying to reach out to? 394 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.880 Yeah, I mean I think it's a spot on solution there. So are 395 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.839 you guys sending those as the sales you mentioned? It's more once their sales 396 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:40.279 engaged and it's a tool that the sales team can use. Is it sending 397 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:44.240 those via email or salesperson literally saying hey, what's your home addressed? We 398 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.839 want to physically mail this to you. Have you guys tried both options and 399 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:52.880 kind we have effectiveness? Yeah, no, and the because the home delivery 400 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.480 thing. So we we have tested that. You know, send those as 401 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:57.920 a great solution on that, but people are still, and this is understandable, 402 00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:00.680 people can still be uncomfort we're given out their home address. Right, 403 00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:06.519 it's Um and everyone has different situations about their environment. So we we actually 404 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:10.200 had some kind of misses there where it came across, you know, especially 405 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:11.839 if it's early in the sales cycle. So if you're talking to some of 406 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:15.039 you're engaged with the relationship with, absolutely right. We make that happen, 407 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:19.319 no problem. We send personalized things through Amazon and we get their home address 408 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:22.680 and send it. But when you're really looking at how to open that door 409 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:27.359 and kind of start that conversation, the address for what we found it was 410 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:33.119 too big of an ask, right. so that's where email and digital delivery 411 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.839 became more way to go and that's where, again, we empowered the reps 412 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:41.799 to make that offer via however they want, the phone, social, email, 413 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.119 you name it, and then we would work on delivery for them, 414 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.759 you know, after the fact. Yeah, I love that solution, looking 415 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:52.240 for a digital way that isn't an ask and adds value but incorporates the value 416 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.920 of adding a gift once they're engaged early in the sales process. But if 417 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:00.839 it is a longer sales cycle and the sales are up, is engaged, 418 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.960 oftentimes, you know something strategic. I I've even I've been engaged with marketing 419 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.640 leaders that are looking at our service, and this is after we've had a 420 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:12.119 caller too. But Hey, I'd love to send you a copy of our 421 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:17.960 CEOS book because it really unpacks the strategy that we talked about with podcasting. 422 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.559 Hey, can I can I send that to you? At that stage people 423 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.240 are more than willing to give out. You know their mailing address, but 424 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:26.359 I wouldn't cold message someone on Linkedin and say hey, I want to send 425 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:27.200 you a book or I want to say where do you live? Give me 426 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:30.559 where do you live? Yeah, why do you want to know? It's 427 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.960 kind of like that line from from Hamilton's. I've been looking for you. 428 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:40.359 I'm getting nervous, sir. Right Anyway, for folks who haven't seen or 429 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.079 listened to the soundtrack of Hamilton's, that might fall on deaf ears, but 430 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.839 it's in my head consistently. One of the things I want to add on 431 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.759 the digital direct mail side. What we found also, though, is it's 432 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.799 important to establish the fit and the value first. What the direct mail and 433 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.240 the incentives did for us was help with the timing right. So so much 434 00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.440 of what we run into is like hey, it sounds like great, but 435 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.119 no one's trying going right. Why? You know why? We can talk 436 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:04.559 later, right, and later as always. Never so what we found the 437 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:07.799 digital direct mail. That the right way that we found use it is established, 438 00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:11.839 the value, established that we're going to solve their solution and then use 439 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.480 the incentive as a way to say, Hey, let's meet this week. 440 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.599 Right, let's meet this month, not in the future. And someone defined 441 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.720 thing, because when we lead with the with the offer, it became a 442 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:22.799 you know, a spamming right, and it was like, well, what 443 00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.319 are you really doing? It's like, no, let's let's sell you first 444 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.880 on why we're important and we'll use the incentive to say and that, and 445 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:32.920 this is why you should talk to us now, as opposed to next quarter, 446 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:34.640 next year, when traveler resumes, because who knows what that is? 447 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:38.599 Right? Yeah, I like that. So definitely hit the back button a 448 00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:41.000 couple of times. This might be an episode you want to go back to 449 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.720 the start, because column we talked about a number of things, how to 450 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.960 how to be agile with gift giving, how to be agile based on the 451 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:52.480 stage there in, how to be agile based on the content that you create, 452 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.279 what the data tells you and then adjusting that. So a number of 453 00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.799 different things. I love the way that you walk through some very specifics and 454 00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:03.799 what you guys have tested, tried and and learned from column. On that 455 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.640 note, if anybody listening to this would like to Ping you with any follow 456 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:11.160 up questions or maybe just stay connected with you and the team at trip actions, 457 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:12.759 what's the best way for them to do that, the best way would 458 00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:17.359 be linkedin. So Colin Shallby. I'm one of one CLM, so you're 459 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.440 not gonna find too many of me