5 Steps to a World-Class Team with Dr. Jon Finn

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.240 Hey be to be growth listeners. We want to hear from you. In 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:06.080 fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to be tob 3 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:11.759 growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:16.320 to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus. The first fifty participants will 5 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:21.120 receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more 6 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:28.160 time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B number two letter be growth 7 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:34.079 podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to 8 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:46.520 enter, and look forward to hearing from you, conversations from the front lines 9 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:54.399 of marketing. This is be tob growth. Welcome back to be to be 10 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:59.240 growth. This is your host, Benjie Block, and today I am honored 11 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:03.000 to be joined by Dr John Finn. He is the author of a new 12 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:08.120 book called the habit mechanic and he's the director and founder of tougher minds, 13 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:14.040 which is an award winning consultancy. John, thank you for being with us 14 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.480 today on B tob growth hibends. You will thank you for having me. 15 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:22.560 Very exciting to be we love the work you're doing. I can say personally 16 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:26.040 I love it. I know we've had a couple conversations now. So the 17 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:30.159 habit mechanic. Congratulations on the book. Let's start here. For those that 18 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:33.319 are are going to be new to the work that you've done and all of 19 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:37.159 the May and the sweat and, I'm sure, just the effort that has 20 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.680 gone into this project. Tell us a little bit about the habit mechanic and 21 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:44.640 the genesis of this book. Yeah, well, I've been working on the 22 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:48.680 habit mechanic for over twenty years. Believe it or not. I've got three 23 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:53.560 psychology related degrees, cuding a PhD, and there's work from my undergraduate degree 24 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:59.840 in this book as some of the foundational ideas. And I spotted quite early 25 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:04.719 on in my career that the traditional approaches I was being taught to help people 26 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:08.199 to be their best just didn't seem to be that effective. They were putting 27 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:14.680 helping people to understand what they're needed to do to do better and not so 28 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:20.919 great actually helping them to change their behavior. So I became really passionate about 29 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:27.599 creating a new, more powerful approach that was based on cutting edge neuro science 30 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:31.960 and behavioral science, quite new sciences, in some way to actually help people 31 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:38.120 to do better. So and whether an individual, your your a leader, 32 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:43.039 whether you're a team I wanted to create something that everybody could use to do 33 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:50.599 better. And although we use these ideas the highest level of elite sport and 34 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:54.120 the top businesses on the planet, you know we use them through a range 35 00:02:54.159 --> 00:03:00.919 of other areas, all the way through to school and pair and teachers, 36 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:06.039 because we want to create something that you could use throughout your journey through life, 37 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.159 not just at work or in sport, but actually in life. Well, 38 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:13.560 someone that has taken the time to read this, I think it's extremely 39 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:19.360 impactful and why I invited you on the show today really is to take one 40 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:23.639 particular chapter from the book that I found that would be very insightful, I 41 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:29.840 think, to our audience of leaders, specifically in the marketing space, leaders 42 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:34.800 that, man, we know right we're facing all sorts of challenges and you 43 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:39.840 mentioned in the book that you believe this may be the most challenging time ever 44 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:46.240 for leaders. Let's identify some of those key factors that you see and make 45 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:52.000 leaderships so complex and challenging today, John. Yeah, so I think we 46 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.560 have to step back and think about the modern world, and the way to 47 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:59.199 describe the modern world is the vouka world, the fulatile and certain complex, 48 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:03.319 ambiguous world which, if people didn't believe in it, became very real to 49 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:08.599 her in the last few years with the COVID pandemic. Right and not just 50 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:13.759 really means there's one constant in the world and that constantly is change, and 51 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:18.800 the change you getting faster and faster and faster. So long gone other days 52 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:23.519 of the factory model of work in where you learned your trade and your your 53 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.360 technical skills when you were, as it maybe, a teenager and you didn't 54 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.639 have to learn too much for the rest of your career. Now things are 55 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.399 changing all the time. The competences we need to manage ourselves but also to 56 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.480 do our job, the technical competies for a job, the tech by using 57 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:42.199 this changing all the time. So there's only one constant the world. That 58 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:47.639 constant is change. Change creates problems, problems to solve problems as opportunities, 59 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:54.600 problems that create big challenges. And, as human beings are, best way 60 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:59.639 of solving problems is to work in teams. So almost apiens are unique, 61 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:05.879 clear excellent at working cleverly in teams, and there are a few rules you 62 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:10.879 need to get right to create good teamwork. The first thing we need to 63 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:17.360 get right is each individual member the team needs to get their brain working properly. 64 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:25.560 Right they can think clearly and they can solve problems at an individual level. 65 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:29.319 But then the beauty of a team is that we can then start to 66 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:33.079 communicate and collaborate and essentially get our all all our brains working together on the 67 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:42.319 same problems. And in order to do that we need to feel valued and 68 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:47.160 respected and trust to other people we're working with, and also helps our brain 69 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:50.800 to work well. And the third thing that we need to do is we 70 00:05:50.839 --> 00:06:00.120 need to feel excited and emotionally bought into the team's mission. So so, 71 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:03.000 in short, there's only one constant in the world, that's change. Change 72 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.079 creates a lots of problems. We're going to be able to deal with those 73 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:11.000 problems much better if we work in a team. And if we want to 74 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:14.079 do that well, we need to get everybody's brains working well, so that 75 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:17.319 people need to be looking after themselves, but we need to create trust and 76 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:21.120 respect and people need to feel valid, because that helps people's brains to work 77 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:25.720 well. Well, otherwise they'll be threat detection all the time. And then 78 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:31.319 we need to get people oriented towards an exciting mission that there can get emotionally 79 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:35.759 invested in, so that's teams can help us in the VUCA world. Here's 80 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:41.839 the problem. Hybrid work has made it much more difficult to do those things. 81 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:46.800 So the hybrid world and the pandemic has made it much more difficult to 82 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:53.000 get your brain working properly. Obviously we've had a thesy an illness that's been 83 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:57.480 going round. We talked about the covid brain, etc. But a lot 84 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:01.000 of people have developed an awful lot of bad habits in the pandemic. Hybrid 85 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:04.480 work creates an other challenges well, where you're not going to the same physical 86 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:09.399 space anymore. So it makes it much more difficult to actually look after your 87 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:15.399 brain. We have being bombarded in the modern world with the attention economy, 88 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:18.079 with stresses, with challenges, and it's just more difficult to get your own 89 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:23.160 brain working. Problem. It's awesome, not difficult to build the trust and 90 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:29.959 the respect and the feeling that people care about you when you're communicating remotely, 91 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:34.199 because the technology we use in our brain to help us to read each other's 92 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:39.240 emotions, they're called mirror and your arms and Mir on your owns just don't 93 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:42.720 work as well when you're not in the same room with people. You know 94 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.319 you can look at someone, you can send how they're feeling, because when 95 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:50.560 you look at someone you read their expressions and their fit and their body language, 96 00:07:50.600 --> 00:07:56.879 etc. That's why emails are always starting off within the night with a 97 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:00.160 negative term, and so you have to go the extra mile to early mat 98 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:07.879 your emails and because, as but hybrid work makes it more difficult to communicate 99 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.079 and collaborate, because it challenges some of the foundational things we need to get 100 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:15.399 right as a team. So to bring it all together, I say that 101 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:22.199 as a leader there are three core challenges that the modern world brings. One 102 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.879 is it's hard of a teams to work together, for all the reasons I 103 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:31.240 wanted out. Two is leadings harder because people have traditionally been promoted to leadership 104 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.039 positions because they're good at getting into a room and influencing other people's behavior, 105 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:39.919 because leadership just about influence. When you can't do that and you don't see 106 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.840 your team every day anymore in the same way, that's more difficult to do. 107 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.679 And connected to those first two ideas is that we are just now going 108 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.720 to be much more dependent on team members self managing. MMM, because team 109 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.440 is not going to be as good at influence in their behavior. Neither is 110 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.960 a leader. So we need to get better at self managing. But arguably 111 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:03.519 self management is more difficult than I would before. So that's whas complex and 112 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:09.440 challenging. Yep, do a great job of explaining that, because I totally 113 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.399 agree. And as in your you have so many marketing leaders that are listening 114 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.960 to this right now and they're going you talk about fast, you talk about 115 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.679 problems and yeah, we'll raise our hands and go YEP. That's the world 116 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.799 we're living in. Hybrid work, all the complexity that that adds. So 117 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:28.480 when you're going, man, we want to create this world class team, 118 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:33.600 there's so many ways that that can potentially hit a wall right potentially break apart. 119 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.279 You have some people that aren't fully bought in or they haven't done the 120 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.679 work internally, like you were talking about, to really bring their whole self. 121 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:43.440 So many roads we can go down. John. What I want to 122 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:48.159 do is I want to spend our time together giving away some steps. You 123 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.600 five steps to kind of like a world class team. But where I want 124 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:56.799 to start us in this discussion is actually rewinding in your story back to two 125 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.960 thousand and six, because you were working in the back room staff of an 126 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:07.720 English professional soccer team right and you become fascinated by the performance and the leadership 127 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:13.120 transitions that were kind of happening within the team, so much so actually to 128 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.799 the point where you had mentioned some of the degrees that you got, but 129 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:18.159 you went on to pursue your PhD to kind of learn more about the theory 130 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:24.600 behind some of the successes some of the setbacks that you were observing and seeing 131 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.639 firsthand. Tell me a little bit about how that season of your life you 132 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:35.879 equally informs your view on leadership. Yeah, and this actually happened over to 133 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:39.759 season. So the first season we won the league by a record amount of 134 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:46.039 points by spending less money than anyone ever spent in professional soccer in the UK 135 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.279 to gain those points. So we spent fifty percent less on player wages and 136 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:56.440 the team that came second team that came third. So we were massively punching 137 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:58.840 above our way and one of the really interesting things that happened in that season 138 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:05.600 was our manager got putched by another team, so he left. One of 139 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:09.320 the coaches then was promoted to the map to become the manager and what he 140 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:13.440 did is he promoted the two most senior players, who were coming towards the 141 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:20.080 end of their careers, to become his assistant coaches. And what immediately happened? 142 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:28.039 There was that barrier, often invisible barry, between the senior leaders, 143 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:35.480 the players in this example, just disappeared because they had the players we're essentially 144 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:39.440 leading them. So that trust and that respect and people feeling valued. It 145 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:46.639 just set that really good psychological safety in the dressing room when our amazing season 146 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.840 and lots of little different stories within. But then this the season afterwards, 147 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:58.559 when we got promoted, we lost some of our senior leaders, not the 148 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.399 assistant manager but some other one, because they went to drop down lead to 149 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.559 get there more money or whatever. Other some retired. And then we, 150 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.639 because we didn't have a very big budget, we ended up getting a lot 151 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:16.720 of young players and we got a player and learn from one of the biggest 152 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.240 teams in the UK, or Man City, and this player pulled up in 153 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.440 the car park with a car that was probably worth more than some of the 154 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:28.679 players contracts for the season and he walked into the dressing room and he had 155 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:33.879 a Hoodie on and instead of having a draw string in the Hoodie. He 156 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.879 had a big thick goal chain. So you saw this felt way a minute, 157 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.159 this is not quite right. And but because he was playing, you 158 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.240 know, playing for Man City, rich famous club, all the young players 159 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.879 bravitated towards him and this this young guy got sent off after twenty minutes in 160 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:56.399 his first game. So just absolutely disaster. What it what that taught me 161 00:12:56.519 --> 00:13:03.320 was that leadership isn't about the title or the position. It's about influence, 162 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:09.039 and everybody has influence. And it also taught me that we weren't being deliberate 163 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.840 enough in terms of bringing leaders into our environment or bringing really positive influences our 164 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.720 environment or developing leaders. Yeah, we were great developing the technical and tactical 165 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.519 skills, but we weren't great developing leaders, and I think that that still 166 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:33.080 is the case. Leadership is almost the untapped results, the we haven't yet 167 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.240 learned how to look. I think the tough of mind says in the how 168 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.159 a mechanic approach has but because we went up into our leadership science, so 169 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:45.799 we've kind of driving that forwards, but but then not really struck a cold 170 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:48.399 with me that we could do much more, and it really took me on 171 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:50.600 that journey to want it to Lowell. How do we do it? How 172 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.600 do we look lead isn't not only help people to be at that best individually, 173 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.279 but how do we help them tell all this to be at that best? 174 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.399 What's the scientific approach to doing that? Yep, scientific approach is an 175 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:07.799 interesting way of saying that right, because I don't know that we naturally equate 176 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:11.120 the way we think of leadership with a scientific approach, which is obviously something 177 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:18.440 your advocate advocating for heavily. In this book you talk about a useful case 178 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.919 study that I've that story is so interesting, John, so thank you for 179 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.159 going into that. One of the things that I think we can be guilty 180 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:30.679 of as leaders is having these just traditional ways right where we think about we've 181 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:33.519 always thought about leadership in this way. So this is how they did it 182 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:35.679 back then, that's how we're doing it now, this is how I'll do 183 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.080 it forever, and sort of the mentality. But you would say, hey, 184 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.799 there's some outdated old ways of thinking about leadership that we need to move 185 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.639 past or we need to update. Right, explain to me what some of 186 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:54.120 those old ways are that you you see that we kind of often adopt in 187 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:58.120 our leadership. Yeah, and to Calviat, they says, are all very 188 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.440 well intended thing things, people trying to help other people do better, but 189 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.879 we haven't known about it's only in the last twenty, twenty five years we've 190 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.039 had the technology to look inside the human brain with because we've got functional MRI 191 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.759 s cams. A lot of the pros we're using to help leaders are over 192 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:22.279 a hundred years old and for me broadly, the big problem with traditional leadership 193 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.639 of training. It's all about knowledge and knowing what to do. And here's 194 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.039 what great leaders do. Is All here's a top ten list and we got 195 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:33.559 tools like psychimetric psychiometrics measure what you can do today against some of the psychimetricst 196 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:39.840 we user over a hundred years old. Some modern neuroscientists say they're about as 197 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:45.200 accurate as astronomy and how they're not all that helpful. And I use these 198 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.720 tools and that's how I've learned that they're not find them particularly helpful. I 199 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:54.320 think they've got this help me to starting a conversation, but ultimately leaderships about 200 00:15:54.320 --> 00:16:02.000 habits and if and we can all build better habits, and because the world's 201 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.960 moving so quickly. The way that we're leading today, although it may be 202 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:10.320 really good, it's not necessarily going to be good enough in the in six 203 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:14.080 months time or six months after that. So as leaders we need to keep 204 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.080 building and refining better habits, but also we need to recognize that every warning 205 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:23.679 in our team has some leadership responsibility and we've got to empower them to learn 206 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:27.000 how to build better leadership habits, not just know what good leaders do, 207 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:32.200 but actually build better habits. So that's where I took the approach is about 208 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:36.720 breaking it down into these tiny little habits, of which you know it in 209 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.279 our approach, in the cheek hope mechanic approach and in the book. It's 210 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:45.200 probably one thousand eight hundred ninety little different habits that we talked about. HMM, 211 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.399 fascinating stuff. Let's go down that road a little bit more before we 212 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:53.159 break down these these five stages and helping build these world class teams. Because 213 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.759 you say leadership is about habits. Obviously the book habit mechanic. So I 214 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:03.039 think we needed to find that term real quick, like when you say become 215 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.759 a habit mechanic, what would use define that as? John? Yeah, 216 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:14.160 so I think about in three, three ways. One is understanding how your 217 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:18.319 brain works and how other people's brain work. It oft to be a neuroscientists 218 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.480 just a gist level, and we have a few models we explain in the 219 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:27.160 book we've created to help people to understand that. Then having a having ways 220 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.200 to analyze your habits, because, if you understand, I a brain which 221 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.319 you understand most of what you're doing. Most of the time, at least 222 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:40.000 nineteen percent is mindless, automated behavior, from how you think to what you 223 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.839 do. We have a tiny bit of consciousness and nuts it. So we've 224 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:47.559 got to be able to understand our habits. which habits are helping us to 225 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:51.519 be healthy, happin at our best, which habits are getting in the way? 226 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:56.079 And then, thirdly, we have to be able to start building more 227 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.960 new habits. We call them super habbits. So build more new Super Habits, 228 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:06.319 get rid of your destructive habits, but not so you can just do 229 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:08.799 it for the next few days, all weeks, so you can build them 230 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:11.920 in a sustainable when. To do that you need to use behavioral science. 231 00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:15.119 So that's how I would think of a hobbit mechanic, and the chief of 232 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.319 a mechanic by extension is and someone who understands only how to de off for 233 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:25.279 themselves, but also how to help others to do it and create a culture 234 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:30.000 that makes it really easy for others to build more helpful, sustainable new habits. 235 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.640 And that's the foundation of wide call a purposeful development organization. And whether 236 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.640 when we live in a world where the only constantly is change, it's essential 237 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:42.039 that everyone is working on themselves all the time to keep getting a little bit 238 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:45.519 better and a little bit better. Man. I mean you think about the 239 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.680 leaders that are listening to this and the need for us to be able to 240 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:56.000 help other people in their development. Such a timely conversation. In so what 241 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.599 I want to do, because one thing to spot issues right and leadership development. 242 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.119 It's a whole other thing to look at what you're talking about, neuroscience, 243 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:11.400 behavioral science and Create Training that's actually going to help us address like leaders, 244 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.319 help them take their next right step. So you've tried different approaches. 245 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:21.000 Eventually you're landing on what was called the five stage team power model, and 246 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.480 we're going to take some time here over the next few minutes to talk about 247 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:27.119 these five stages and in greater detail. But let's start with just a high 248 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:32.680 level. John, would you walk a through these five stages and what you 249 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:37.519 call the five stage team power model? Yeah, so the metaphor here is 250 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.920 you're climbing up a mountain with your team. Top of the mountain is the 251 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:48.720 mission success. It's the big goals you're working towards and the five stages are 252 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:53.680 kind of placed getting you up the mountain. That's up the mountain essentially, 253 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:57.640 at so right the bottom, before you even set off on your journey. 254 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.160 Stage one is what we call me power conditioning. This is about getting everyone 255 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.200 doing their best to be their best, and me power conditioning. Doing more 256 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.480 of that is the first step to becoming a habit mechanic. So we need 257 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:15.039 everyone to be working themselves, to get their brains working properly, to have 258 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:19.200 that mindset that they want to keep making little adjustments and little, little improvements, 259 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.920 because then they're going to be healthier, they're going to be happier, 260 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.680 they're going to be much better able to help the team to succeed. Stage 261 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.799 two, then, is before we actually set off on our journey up the 262 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:36.920 mountain. Stage too is community base camp where we get together and we discuss, 263 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:40.640 well, what is the mission and what are the big girls and what 264 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:45.440 are the immediate priorities and how do those priorities distill down into everyone's roles and 265 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.119 responsibilities? And we do that. The chief have a mechanic in the group 266 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.400 dees thatigner really empowering where they gets everyone to buy into it. And then 267 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:59.200 the third stage is called group climbing support. This is the daily grind of 268 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.920 working and doing the work to solve the problems and help the team move forwards. 269 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:08.880 This is how we communicate with each other, verbally, nonverbally's how we 270 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:15.599 support each other as we're climbing up the mountain. The fourth stage, then, 271 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.279 is what we call camp fire discussions. This is where we periodically stop 272 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:26.839 and we coach and support each other so we know that the skills that we 273 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.440 have to day to help the team be excellent and not necessarily the skills we're 274 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:34.160 going to need tomorrow or in six month times. Everyone needs to keep growing 275 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:40.440 and developing and we need to have we need to be supporting each other, 276 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.839 to help each other to build new habits. And the fifth stage is what 277 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:52.119 we call the group climbing review. This is where we periodically stop and say 278 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:57.480 right, there were are. That was our mission last month or two months 279 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.400 ago, however long you want to put your reflection gaps in for with that. 280 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.319 That was our mission. Is it still the case? And they're still 281 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:10.880 our big goals and they're still our priorities? Is everyone one fulfilling their roles 282 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:17.839 and responsibilities? And when you're not doing that, the opposite is people are 283 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.440 talking negatively behind each other's backs, you know, and there's not that trust 284 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:25.880 as not that safety in the group, etc. So it's just a simple 285 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:30.279 framework that we can start to think about. What we need to do is 286 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:36.799 a team to be as hobast and like everything you know, programs and the 287 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:41.440 hobbit mechanic book. Nothing's descriptive. This works really well. I we use 288 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:44.440 this an out team, but you can you can tell this, you can 289 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.599 tweak it, you're going to just but essentially have a way of having a 290 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:52.680 really intelligent conversation about team performance in a way that you can keep Quimbato and 291 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:57.319 you can keep assessing. So I want to walk back through. You know, 292 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:02.400 we're put the leaders that are listening. You're already wearing your leadership pat 293 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:06.279 in a sense, so you're listening through that Lens, that perspective. One 294 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:11.440 thing I find so smart about this model is the first two you're not even 295 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:15.519 really moving yet. Right. One is like, as a leader, as 296 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.440 a chief habit mechanic, I'm in a place where I'm also empowering my team 297 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:25.119 to where they are becoming habit mechanics. They're thinking and taking ownership for themselves. 298 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:30.759 But it's like it's discussion, it's empowerment to this communal piece. We're 299 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.640 looking at the vision. What I mean, it's it's again, it's a 300 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:37.160 lot of conversation. It's about establishing where we're headed. Right. So, 301 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.599 if you're the leader in in, let's say, a team, and you're 302 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.759 trying to make this stage one me power conditioning happen, John talked to me 303 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:51.319 about some of the conversations you're having, some of the ways that you're actively 304 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:55.319 empowering your team to set them up for success, to set them up to 305 00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:00.400 become the habit mechanic. Yeah, well, I think if you do a 306 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.640 map of your team on me power conditioning, when end is people are absolutely 307 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.759 doing their best to be at their best. The other end of the continuum 308 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.079 is, when I say a map, I just I mean a cut, 309 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.519 a continuum. When end is yeah, they're absolutely doing me power conditioning. 310 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:21.160 When is they're not. They're just passive to the VOCA world and they're being 311 00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:26.079 controlled by Netflix and FACEBOOK, etc. Everyone's on a somewhere different on the 312 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:32.359 continuum, but everyone can can do a little bit better. So it's good 313 00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:36.519 to know where people are at. Just back of a we would set a 314 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:40.640 fag pack it on the in the UK, which means cigarette. So you 315 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.039 just we say that backing mapking kind of thing. Just map it out. 316 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:48.920 Yeah, yeah, see where people are. But if people don't believe they 317 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.400 can change, that's going to be the first barrier. So that's why we 318 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.000 always start our programs and that's why the First Section of the having me kind 319 00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.160 of books all about how your brain works and the fact you can learn, 320 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:04.920 and learning just superpower. So we have to prime that mindset. And then 321 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.799 the way that the way that I think about helping people to do better in 322 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:15.839 this is complex world. It's a bit like teaching them to drive. So 323 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:18.799 they might have the mindset that they can learn how to drive, but then 324 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:23.160 you've got to given the knowledge in the skills. So you help them to 325 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:30.279 normally understand more about themselves, but show them how to do that in tellige 326 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.799 of where develop help them to develop their having mechanic intelligence so they can analyze 327 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.720 their habits and then got the skills to get better at building better sleep habits 328 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.440 or stress management or productivity habits, whatever it is. It's, I literally 329 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:45.079 learning to drive. You're not going to do that with a Webinar or one 330 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.480 workshop, because you don't learn to drive by that right, you don't. 331 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.160 You can't drive after the first lesson. You know this Theorem, whealism, 332 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.759 whether accelerators, etc. So it's like you got to teach them to drive. 333 00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.759 And then one hat as a leader is you're a bit like the driving 334 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.799 instructor. But another how you have to wear is your like the Department for 335 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:10.759 Transport. You've got to set the Highway Code. What rules? What be 336 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:15.960 how do we use the behavior or science to actually help our people to do 337 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.920 better? So we have our nine action factor model. You know. Just 338 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.839 a really simple example from that is, if I want my people to be 339 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:26.400 doing more me power conditioning, I've got to be getting them to check, 340 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:32.720 checking with themselves on a daily basis, or at least the weekly basis, 341 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:36.440 just doing a simplexticized like how well did I do my best to be at 342 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:38.680 my best to day. Ten would mean I was perfect. One would mean 343 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.799 I failed. Care what can I do a little bit differently? Today? 344 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.960 We caught a tea, a tiny power and action tell me to do a 345 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.039 bit better today. Okay, so I'm going to go for a five minute 346 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.880 walk at lunch time to make it easier to be a bit more productive this 347 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:56.240 afternoon. And then three years I've got to say why? Why would doing 348 00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.680 that be helpful for me? Well, as just as I said, I'll 349 00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:04.279 be more productive of finished work earlier, etc. So there are a whole 350 00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:08.200 range of things we can do as a leader to help out people do better. 351 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:12.759 But the starting point is you got to get that mindset open that we 352 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:17.599 can all change, we can all learn and in fact it's essential. And 353 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.359 me, as the leader, look, I'm doing this, I'm working on 354 00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:22.880 myself. I'm the most experienced person in the room. And then we've got 355 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:27.400 to start to empower our people with knowledge and skills, and that's why we 356 00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:33.480 were at the habit mechanic book, because this isn't a book with one idea 357 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.160 in it. This is a manual for life. It's the tool kit for 358 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.279 success, it's everything. It's like a second me twenty is to learn how 359 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:44.039 to write it, because it's everything to write it, rather, because everything 360 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.559 I've learned over twenties is in that book. But then, as a leady, 361 00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.440 you've got to think about how do we create the Highway Code to actually 362 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:56.440 make it as easy as possible to help my people keep working themselves and keep 363 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.359 moving forwards, and that's where the chief having mechanic peace comes in. So 364 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.960 let me ask you for up question on that, just really practically, because 365 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.720 I loved I love the example of even just you know, we're about implementation 366 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:12.759 here at BB growth, so we want to give organizational leaders and opportunity. 367 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:19.799 You're bringing up this idea of okay, even if it's just priming them by 368 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:25.839 having them think through. What did they show up at their best yesterday? 369 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.400 Is that? Is that something that you've seen implemented in like a morning meeting 370 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:30.640 setting? Because one thing we talked about at the beginning right, we're all 371 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.960 in remote work, which means it's harder to create these habits, are these 372 00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:38.279 rituals for your team? So what are something like? What's a cadence that 373 00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.400 that would happen at? Is it an all together community thing? Are you 374 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.039 just saying hey, this might be good for you to try. Like, 375 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.240 how would you actually implement something like that on a team? Yeah, so 376 00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:56.000 periodically. One example would be at I'll be asking everyone to check in across 377 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.000 these five areas. We're going to step back and we're going to reflect on 378 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.119 how well are we doing in these five areas. So there are some self 379 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:10.279 assessments in Mechanic Book Guide lead US through how to do this and I'll just 380 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:14.839 read out one of one of those. So how do you assess people? 381 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.279 On the me pal conditioning, everyone could rate themselves out of ten or they 382 00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.359 could read the team out of ten when a question, like us them and 383 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.039 like everyone in our team, deliberately chooses to bring their best self to work 384 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:33.559 every day so they can be their best and help the team fulfill its potential. 385 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.000 So if they thought everybody did that all the time, you get to 386 00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:37.559 give the team at ten. They thought no one ever did that, they 387 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:42.799 give them a one. Then on the Community Base Camp System, at like 388 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:49.000 the team has a clear strategy. That makes everyone feel empowered and helps a 389 00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:55.359 team perform well and achieve its mission. Again, everyone can give a score. 390 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:59.839 So we're empowering everyone to have us a here and it doesn't mattery. 391 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.640 They're not quite sure about all what's me power conditioning yet, because we're going 392 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:06.119 to keep checking in with this and as we do it we're going to learn 393 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:10.640 more about it. A step in three would be everyone in our team deliberately 394 00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:15.400 chooses to support and bring the best out in each other to help the team 395 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.000 achieve its mission. Again, everyone gets gives a score out of ten statement, 396 00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:23.960 for we coach and support each other to develop better habits so that every 397 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:30.200 team member can make a more positive contribution to our success. Again, everyone 398 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:34.000 gives a score. And then, finally, collectively, we periodically review our 399 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:40.720 individual and team performance and create a plan of action to help our team improve. 400 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:45.160 So this is what I call intelligence, self watching. We can do 401 00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.920 that at individual level and we can do it at a team level. So 402 00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.839 I know that lots of businesses ask their people to be more strategic and more 403 00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:59.240 reflective, but without good knowledge and skills about how to do that, you're 404 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:03.359 going to problem end up in that strategy meeting talking about the football game that 405 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:08.359 was on last night and not actually deliberately reflecting on the team. So, 406 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:14.799 as a leader and as a team it's good to have that five step model 407 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.160 that you can keep going back to and you can keep selfassessing on, and 408 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.960 the more you do that, the more intelligent you would get about your team. 409 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.279 And then a world where team work is harder, we need everybody to 410 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.960 be more intelligent about the team. We need everyone in the team to understand 411 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:34.200 on those five stages but also in just done that they have a job to 412 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:41.160 positively contribute to age stage and I think that's a really empowering way of doing 413 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.000 them. Does that? Do you think that will help people? Benja? 414 00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:48.519 Oh, absolutely, I think one thing I'm thinking as you're even reading out 415 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:52.319 those questions, and I love the idea of intelligent self watching and doing that 416 00:31:52.359 --> 00:32:00.279 at a level for an organization, like we do things like as an organization, 417 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:05.799 or thinking, okay, let's let's review how how bought in people are, 418 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.599 and we might send out a survey and get get people's feedback there. 419 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:14.759 But intelligent self watching to me is slightly different in that you're really taking an 420 00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:17.240 assessment, of learning, of how much you're leaning, I would say, 421 00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:22.359 leaning into life right, leaning into your work, versus being very passive. 422 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.319 And when you do that periodically, maybe you choose to take a cadence of 423 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.799 monthly or quarterly, but there's some sort of thing that you're tracking over time. 424 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.559 You can see your health just like you would with a doctor visit or 425 00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.839 anything else. So you can see are we really thriving or an in? 426 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:44.480 You set benchmarks over time, which I think again for intelligence, self watching 427 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:49.000 is necessary and I think personally every leader should be doing some sort of this. 428 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.559 And then you're just implementing this in your team. So I think it's 429 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:54.480 fantastic. Let me ask you this. Of the five stages, we just 430 00:32:54.599 --> 00:33:00.000 went a bit more in detail on me power conditioning and but of the five 431 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.240 of where do you feel like leaders are most likely to get hung up or 432 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:09.119 is there a one particular stage you feel like we struggle to really implement or 433 00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:15.920 focus on? I think the most challenging stages are me power conditioning, because 434 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:21.200 I think everything you just talked about, the leaning into life that's about better 435 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.359 self management, and self managements harder than ever. So yeah, the first 436 00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:28.279 question on the staff server for me is how well are you doing your best 437 00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:30.680 to be at your best, because without that nothing we do it where it's 438 00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:37.440 going to be helpful. So me power conditioning is challenging hence why we wrote 439 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:38.880 the book, because we want to make it easier for people to do it 440 00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:45.400 well and get more more control over their lives and get better at managing themselves. 441 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.400 And I think the hybrid will makes up more difficult. You know, 442 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:53.480 the storage here of a of a pandemic people that leaving the house for a 443 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:57.920 week, starting work at eleven o'clock at night, working all the way through 444 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:00.599 the night. You know. So that's more difficult. And I think also 445 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:04.839 the second bit is group climbing support, because we don't see each other other 446 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:09.400 every day. So get in the collaboration is much more difficult. Building the 447 00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:13.559 safety, building the trust is much more difficult to do. So we have 448 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:19.639 to work harder to do it. I actually did my first in person training 449 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.360 session for HSBC, you are one of the thing, the biggest bank in 450 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:28.119 the world, few weeks ago and it's so different, you know, to 451 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.000 be in the room with people and yeah, I've been talking about the Marinail 452 00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:37.280 Rosenow for two years and the AAH this right, it's so different. So 453 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:40.360 Group, I'm support is much more difficult. So if we but if we 454 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.320 empower people to get better at managing themselves, that's going to make it less 455 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:52.119 difficult and we really heightened the need to work harder, supporting each other and 456 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.079 to become some language we haven't used yet, but it's one of a part 457 00:34:54.079 --> 00:35:00.559 of our leadership model is action communicator, which hopefully does what it says on 458 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:04.559 the ten you know, it's about communicating in a way that helps other people 459 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.840 to tell positive action. There's a whole list of habits that people can developed 460 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:12.199 to do that better. So we need to be helping everybody in the team 461 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.840 to become better action communicators, because communicating just become more difficult. So I 462 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.800 think that the saling ones. For me. Let's go a little bit just 463 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:27.159 further down that road before we wrap up here on that one specifically, what 464 00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.559 I mean, yeah, the way we communicate and we help people lean into 465 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.679 action. That's going to be a big deal. But especially as we're becoming 466 00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:37.920 used to this hybrid version of work or this remote version of work, what 467 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:43.039 are other ways as leaders that you would encourage us, John, to be 468 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:47.639 actively empowering our teams? Is there anything that we can even start putting into 469 00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:52.880 our our ritual, our routine of work that all help us better empower our 470 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:59.480 teams for collaboration and and for teamwork. Yes, we can use insights from 471 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:04.840 self its termination theory, okay, and this is an important part of of 472 00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:10.000 the book and we talk about in a leadership capacity, in the cultural architect 473 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:15.599 part of our leadership model, and there's an entire self assessment there. But 474 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:21.920 the pullet, the pillars of selfdetermination are we don't tell people what to do. 475 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.320 We always ask first and we you know, we get their opinion and 476 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.480 even if our opinion is different, and as long as we rationalize, you 477 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:35.000 know why we're maybe doing things differently, that's going to be helpful. So 478 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.559 it might take a little bit longer to do it that way, but it's 479 00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.679 going to save your time in the long run, rationalizing your decision, which 480 00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:45.199 I just mentioned there in the second part of that. And I think just 481 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:50.559 just one one really interesting insights just catched a lot of a lot of a 482 00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:53.960 lot of selfdetermination and a practical ways as a leader and a too, I 483 00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:00.360 used to use more advancedly developed in the book, but drawing something called performance 484 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:05.480 profiling. So you ask your direct reports, for example, to write down 485 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:09.239 or what are their roles and responsibilities and then to rate themselves out on time 486 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.679 and then where you think they're out of ten. That's a great conversation starter 487 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:20.320 because already you haven't said anything. It's not yours what they think. So 488 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.719 they're empowered to think they're in power to give their opinion. So just just 489 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:30.800 scratches the surface. They're Benji, but it's it's really about being more selfdetermining. 490 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:37.119 You can always be purely selfdetermining, but it's not that you are either 491 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:43.199 selfdetermining or coercid. As a continuum. It's just about being mindful to try 492 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:47.320 to stay away from the coercive end of the continuum, which is much harder 493 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:53.719 to do when we're communicating. Yeah, of the technology try. HMM, 494 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.920 fascinating stuff. Man, we do to say we can't do what? Twenty 495 00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:04.400 plus years of work just as in a forty minute conversation everybody. So we're 496 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.719 doing a great job here distilling some of this framework and some of this information 497 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.840 and John, thank you for being along for the ride today and for doing 498 00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:15.360 this with us. Want to ask you kind of one question as we close, 499 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:20.239 as we kind of are are working to apply this framework. We leave 500 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.519 we're going to take action on today's episode. What would you tell us to 501 00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:29.320 do right away? Like. I know we brought up several sort of practical 502 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:32.360 things we can try, but is there a first thing you would invite us 503 00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:36.480 to do to make sure that we're doing any or maybe it's even a mindset 504 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:37.679 ship, but what would you tell us like, Hey, walk away from 505 00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:43.159 this episode with this in mind, with this as an action item. Course 506 00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:45.000 I'd say buy the book. Bends you, but its probably don't leave that 507 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:49.639 for me. I'll say that at the end. From what you want, 508 00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.159 from what we've covered in the podcast, I'd say just think about the self 509 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:57.920 reflection statements I talked through. Yeah, just why do you think your team's 510 00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:00.519 up? So with your leave the ship pattern? Who where do you think 511 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:06.119 people are up? And then, if you feel comfortable with those questions, 512 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.239 take them to the team. You'd ask them slightly differently. Well, their 513 00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:15.559 statements as I read them out. That's the starting point. It's the way 514 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:22.800 I see life is that it's the journey that has ups and downs, but 515 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:28.000 if we do more intelligence self watching, we're going to get more control over 516 00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.719 those ups and those downs, and that's what they haven't mechanic approach is all 517 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:36.480 about, and the more we do intelligence self watching, the more we learn 518 00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:38.639 about ourselves. The more we doing tell self watching with the team, the 519 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:43.639 more the team learns about itself and the more we understand ourselves, the better 520 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.559 able we are to be at our best and to manage our journey through life 521 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:53.880 controlling what we can control. So don't worry that the themes and the concepts 522 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.800 in the five stage model, for example, might feel a little bit for 523 00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:01.320 and now it because the more you go there and look at them and think 524 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:06.639 about them in that way, the team in that way, the more powerful 525 00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.000 they will become and the more you will embed that language and that way of 526 00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:14.880 thinking about yourself. So I think starting with the questions is a really, 527 00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:17.440 really good starting point. Right down the answers, as been you were saying, 528 00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:21.639 track them, track them over a few months, see why you're getting 529 00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.280 it's not about being perfect in all the areas. It's just about recognizing where 530 00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:29.519 you are then picking one area to work and coming back to it month after 531 00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:32.119 and say, right, how we improve the IRIA. Yeah, so that's 532 00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:37.599 how I would stop in J can't be a good leader without being an intelligent 533 00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:44.000 self watcher and then also empowering others to do the same. If you want 534 00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:45.599 to be a great leader. That is a great place to start. And 535 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:49.679 again, like when we're tracking this, we're tracking because then we can see 536 00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:53.760 where we've been and where we're going. And I know on this show, 537 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:57.039 with the people that we interview, in the people that listen, we love 538 00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:00.760 tracking data in our business. We love bottom lines, but sometimes a guy 539 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.280 to also be thinking about this at a human level, like where are we 540 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.920 at? And so I love today's conversation. John. I really appreciate your 541 00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.840 insight and I'll give a plug here at the end of this episode to just 542 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:15.559 say go by the habit mechanic. Do It on Amazon. This is is 543 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:19.920 not a book where you just sit down and you read it once through and 544 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.920 then yeah, you're done. It's it's the type of book that you go 545 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:28.320 back to as a resource, as a manual for life, and it's years 546 00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:31.920 and years of work and study in things that are often outside of our purview 547 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:37.159 as leaders. Right we're busy in business in our marketing departments, but we 548 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.360 can tap into the science and it can make us a better leader, and 549 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:45.119 so want to encourage go grab the book on Amazon. John, thank you 550 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:49.639 for being with us today on be tob growth. For those that want to 551 00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:52.679 stay connected with you. What's the best way for people to do that? 552 00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:57.320 Yes, I'm on Linkedin. To connect with me on Linkedin, don't to 553 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.119 Jones, fin J and I flight to villain checks our website, which is 554 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:05.159 tough of minds that could at UK. There's lots of free resources on that, 555 00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.440 and then if you want to email me directly, you can do that. 556 00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:13.079 Actually, a John Finn, which is Jo n Fi Doblen, ought 557 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.320 to for minds that could at UK or just contact us via the website. 558 00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:20.280 Yeah, happy to take any further questions if you have them. John, 559 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.679 thanks for joining us on beatov growth. Thank you, Benjie. It's been 560 00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:27.519 an absolute pleasure and I hope this really helps people to start taking that first 561 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:31.599 step to imbedding a bit more leadership science into helping the teams to thrive and 562 00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:37.880 succeed in the challenging world. To all of our listeners that are listening this 563 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.679 episode right now, I say thank you for tuning in today. If this 564 00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:45.559 is your first time listening and you've yet to subscribe, do that on whatever 565 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:49.920 podcast platform you're on. Can connect with me as well over on Linkedin. 566 00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.920 I'm talking about business marketing in life and would love to hear from you. 567 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:57.760 Thanks for listening today. Keep doing worked that matters, and we'll be back 568 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:14.440 real soon with another episode. We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on 569 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:17.400 the front lines of marketing. If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing 570 00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:21.800 officer that you think we need to have on the show, reach out. 571 00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:25.519 Email me, Benjie dot block at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I look forward to 572 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:27.159 hearing from you.