A Holistic Approach to Demand Generation, with Ken Marshall

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.960 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. I'm 2 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:21.679 happy to welcome Ken Marshall, Chief Growth Officer at revenues en, to be 3 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:24.920 to be growth. Today can honor to have you on the podcast. Man 4 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:27.120 and Ge, it's been a long time coming. Thank you for having a 5 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:34.119 man excited. Yes, linkedin connect friends and now actual real life. Well, 6 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:38.000 virtual still, but maybe one day impersive a friends. It's soon too 7 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:40.920 be for sure. If the universe is brought us together for this, it 8 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:44.560 will bring us together in real life at some point. Glad to have you 9 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:49.399 on the podcast. Revenues en as a company, you guys are focused on 10 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:55.920 be tob demand generation. You're a partner that basically tailor's an approach very specific 11 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:00.079 to the needs of the business. But give me an idea for you can 12 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.560 personally. What is your daytoday look like? What are you focused in on 13 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:07.319 right now? Yeah, so some people might be like, what kind of 14 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:12.079 pretentious millennial title is a chief Growth Officer? And I did choose it very 15 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.159 intentionally because my day to day you can think about it as sort of the 16 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:19.519 intersection between what a chief marketing officer might do. We're building, you know, 17 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:25.280 better processes and even our own proprietary technology every day. So chief product, 18 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:27.640 had a product and then I've even built part of our sales process and 19 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:30.640 up until two months ago, me and Alex, the CEO, are still 20 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:36.079 selling every single deal ourself. So the intersection of yes, sales, revenue 21 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:41.519 operations, yeah, growth, marketing products. I I do probably a more 22 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:45.159 different types of things than most executives, but that's what I love. So 23 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:49.599 yeah, the variety is always good for someone with a marketing brain. I 24 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:55.519 find myself in constant conversations with even cmos where they just they love the variety 25 00:01:55.560 --> 00:02:00.120 and playing with all the parts. So let's pick your brain on some specific 26 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.640 things here. You said something to me offline that I thought we should lean 27 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:06.640 into, and really it's going to be the spark for the rest of the 28 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:14.759 conversation, and you said marketing leaders need to be more agnostic about their channels. 29 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:17.840 And give me the genesis of that statement. Why do you want to 30 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:23.599 shout that from a megaphone? Yeah, I mean maybe even three megaphones, 31 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.560 but we're probably going to get into this of how I you know, strategy 32 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:31.400 before tactics, but I mean essentially, will have folks and will use Seo, 33 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:35.360 one of our core competencies. As an example, will have people who 34 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:39.000 are coming in where you were talking like sevenzero users a month, and guess 35 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:44.159 how many qualified, you know, sales opportunities they get. Benjie, Goose 36 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:47.639 Egg. Why isn't this that's we'd what. We wrote eight million blog post 37 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:52.159 we hired a team of writers and hate the Opia, and you know what 38 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:53.639 I mean. We're just we're doing all the things right. We look at 39 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.400 Google's core algorithms, I'm like, well, have you matched your buyers persona 40 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.199 to the stages of somebody's journey with your content assets on the site? Do 41 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:05.360 you have social proof and solutions, landing pages for them to make a buying 42 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.319 decision? You know, blank stairs, crickets, and so that's why I 43 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:13.879 always think that the channel and the tactic in the strategy have to align, 44 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.599 and I feel like so often people are like, we need to do you 45 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:20.439 know Meta, we need to get in the metaverse because it's the big new 46 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:23.680 thing. Well, if your customers don't like that and think it's weird, 47 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:25.280 then they're likely not going to be there, which means you're going to deploy 48 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:29.080 money for no reason, right just to seem cool. Or to do the 49 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.719 next big thing. So we always say, before we even have a pitch 50 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:36.520 for somebody internally, before I build a strategy, it's always why the heck 51 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:38.400 did you even come to me? I'm not that you know Kurt, but 52 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:42.800 why? Why are you here for search or inbound? Why aren't you using 53 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.719 paid linkedin ads? If you needed more MQL's yesterday and you're going to burn 54 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.360 through all of your cash in the next week and Bessio is not for you, 55 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.759 get away right. So, anyway, yeah, that's why, when 56 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:55.840 you ask those questions, what do you get in return? When they are 57 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:59.479 like when you're like well, why are you here? Like, do they 58 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.080 have some people come with really solid answers as to why it was finally time 59 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.039 to come to you? Can there's a few people who are just yeah, 60 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:10.560 I mean they're really gangster. They know their budget, they know their road 61 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:13.080 map for the channels, they know they're go to market, they have product 62 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.800 market fit. They're just really savvy. That's like they're its own bucket of 63 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:20.920 humans. Maybe a quarter. The other are somewhere between. They're in a 64 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:25.120 hurry and they heard it was the cool thing to do and I have no 65 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.560 idea why but I need to deploy this series a funding quickly to impress my 66 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.000 thoughts is and what I can do with them is really just taking them. 67 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:36.639 Yeah, just digging, asking questions and truly just being a consultant. And 68 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:41.439 if we arrived that this is the right channel for them, then we can 69 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.720 talk about what revenues end does, but not before. So, HMM, 70 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:47.240 kind of the split. Yeah, I wonder. Let's go down this road 71 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.319 for a second. What do you think are some of the things that lead 72 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:56.079 us to pursue those things out of order? Tactics before strategy? Is it 73 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:00.079 more like, I mean the series a thing is a real, a real 74 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:02.199 problem, like well, you have this fundraising and we have to you know, 75 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:05.560 it's the budget, it's the money in it. That side can easily 76 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.839 become we just deploy the tactic to get the bottom line that we have to 77 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:15.480 have anything else that you see as recurring themes where it's like, okay, 78 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.120 we've put the cart before the Horse in a sense, and tactic is now 79 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:25.959 driving strategy, which doesn't ever work. Yeah, I think there's urgency around. 80 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.439 You have like burn rate, obviously working with Bob's hast airs as companies 81 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:30.800 in general. You're going to you're going to run into that like we're burning 82 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.439 a ton of cash. We need to ramp up, like mql's are, 83 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:38.240 you know, sign ups or something. I think that's the obvious one. 84 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.879 The other ones that are least are less obvious are, you know, someone 85 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:46.519 will come and they'll say, hey, we want to pay for SEO. 86 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:51.040 We've got a month and a half and we want to spend x amount already. 87 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:56.600 There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what in the inbound Meth Mark, you know, 88 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:01.879 marketing methodology, timelines, expectations, and so that a mismanagement of expectations 89 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:05.839 right there is like one of the education points, like this isn't a onetime 90 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:11.879 check out of your go to market checklist. It is its own big bad 91 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:15.439 hairy long term campaign strategy, just like in, you know, account based 92 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:20.639 marketing campaign. It's not we run a facebook add to a few company titles. 93 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:24.519 That's not a YM. You plan, you know, you send maybe 94 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.680 a cupcake for somebody's daughter's birthday. That's you know what I mean. So 95 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:32.040 yeah, I would say the mismatch of expectations and thinking it's a onetime thing. 96 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.720 And the second thing that I see is people want to deploy it without 97 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:40.160 the infrastructure. So what I mean is they haven't gotten buy in from the 98 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.439 CEO like that. The organization doesn't even want to do in bound. They 99 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:47.079 don't want to be known as as an inbound focus organization. Or the content 100 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:51.480 manager is the one that reached out hoping to get some magic bullet to get 101 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.519 there, you know, the CMO from breathing down their neck. But ringings, 102 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:58.600 they didn't understand that you're going to we're going to have to deploy technical 103 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.120 changes. So we need the developers, we need the product manager when we're 104 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.920 writing thought leadership pieces right for conversion, and so the scope of it sometimes 105 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:10.120 just is a bit much for people who don't yet have the infrastructure and they're 106 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.759 not ready for it. So we just advised on how they can move forward. 107 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.920 So those are the big three. Yeah, I think those are all 108 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.279 real important. The one that I'm thinking of as you're talking as well, 109 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:24.480 is just people that think they have a fully baked point, like customer persona. 110 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.279 They know who their target is, but it's like not actually fully baked, 111 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.560 like they don't actually really know. They know just a general title or 112 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.759 that. You know what I mean, like general size of company and they 113 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:41.240 think that they're gonna deploy some massive inbound strategy. Sally's Got Blue Eyes and 114 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.360 she she's forty three. It's like, yeah, but what are her what 115 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:46.720 does she go to bed like, fearing at night that you can help alleviate 116 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:50.279 the next day with that checklist. Yeah, that's a party. That's a 117 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:56.480 customer for SNA. So totally very serpents. Okay. So what in your 118 00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:00.759 mind this this is going to take us to strategy, but has to be 119 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:05.360 mapped before we can start having any sort of channel conversation, any sort of 120 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.879 inbound de managin conversation. What what does that map look like to Ken? 121 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:15.800 I'll say that the most crucial step usually actually isn't. For our clients. 122 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:18.079 They tend to be more upmarket, are mid market these days. So product 123 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.519 market fit and their target customer, their target personas, tends to be a 124 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:24.920 bit more deal than the number one thing. So I'll look directly into the 125 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:31.000 camera. Yeah, it's the mapping between the platform and the product features to 126 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.799 a pain point that that person has, their target customer, those personas individually, 127 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.720 and then the next step to a solution that their feature provides. It's 128 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:46.000 those three things in tandem. Almost never do our customers actually have that mapped 129 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.440 out, and that is the seed to any good in bound strategy is aligning 130 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.799 that person's needs to a feature, to the solution and how it solves that 131 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.639 feature, not just the cool X Y Z widget and what it does, 132 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.279 but how it alleviates that the very human centered pain that they have in their 133 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.919 organization, in their job. So needs for sure solution. What are the 134 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:13.879 questions that you're asking to start on earth this and get these three things actually 135 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:18.080 laid out to where you can start to see success? Yeah, it's it's 136 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.559 kind of like an iterative process as far as how we do it internally, 137 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.159 will start out by just having them mind map all of those things. So 138 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.440 we'll just say, how do people speak about your product? How do you 139 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.840 speak about it internally? Do you know of any like you know market research 140 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:37.159 that you have that either supports or doesn't support that? Does the product manager 141 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.960 speak differently about marketing? will go through and we'll do our own research and 142 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.919 pull out some insights, like from competitors and say, Hey, you have 143 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:46.039 the exact same business model, but why is their marketing messaging like this and 144 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:50.480 they seem to have a larger organization than you or more, and then we'll 145 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:54.720 sort of just continue to like synthesize that back and forth as far as that 146 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.480 data, and then eventually the through line starts to come into focus. Of 147 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:03.080 like we thought we were this kind of tool and the technology is but the 148 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.799 sales, the SDR that we're selling to or the VP of sales, actually 149 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.840 this is what they want. And so if we merge those two with this 150 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.279 is our unique selling proposition, but this is how they speak about it. 151 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:16.799 That's your search strategy. Is that overlap? So I can tell when you're 152 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:20.279 talking the strategy to you just makes you tick, doesn't it? Like you 153 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:26.039 love that aspects the game. It is the game yet, but it is 154 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.519 how you make money. Yes, and it just brings so much clarity, 155 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.720 like the amount of clarity that someone who's been pulling out their hair going like 156 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.759 how does this going to actually work in real life? Providing the strategy that's 157 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.679 going to do that and attaching these three together made it makes makes your processing 158 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.840 and yeah, then obviously drives the bottom line, which is fantastic. Okay, 159 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.399 so this leads us right into inbound demand. Jin once you have that 160 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.600 foundation, you're naturally in a place where social selling, permission based selling, 161 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.120 whatever you want to call it, it's happening. Explain how you think about 162 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.639 generating in bound in the channels that are really necessary to start building this. 163 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.120 Yeah, I mean so permission to be selling, shout out to Seth Goden 164 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.919 change anybody's life. If you haven't read that or you don't get it, 165 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:18.080 but I think about I don't only think about the inbound like to the website, 166 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:22.919 which is why I love that you mentioned linkedin social selling. You can 167 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:28.480 do organic on just about any channel, Cora. Really the goal is understanding, 168 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:31.519 like we're like I sort of briefly mentioned. Here's where our audience hangs 169 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:37.279 out. Here's The authority that I have, or expertise or knowledge, doesn't 170 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:39.480 matter to me. You can let it. You could even be an entertaining 171 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.960 person, although I think giving value based on education that will help them is 172 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.759 better. You could even just be entertaining and essentially taking that and saying, 173 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:52.320 now, how can I leverage that or where can I leverage that to meet 174 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.840 those people where they're at an yet either entertain them, educate them or essentially 175 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:01.679 offer them something regularly that they want. And it's just as simple. As 176 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.960 that, over time, is providing them the thing that they want to the 177 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:07.679 people who, you know, you can help in the way that you can 178 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.360 help them. And so we like, you know, website. Obviously, 179 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:16.679 we utilize Linkedin, we utilize what I guess they would be business directories like 180 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:22.559 clutch. Is something that I actively and it's every SASS company needs to do 181 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.840 this. I mean we have a checklist of like the top fifteen on our 182 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.480 site. But essentially leveraging the authority of these properties to point back to you 183 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.879 and as a person doing it and bound can work for the company or person. 184 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:37.879 But talking about social selling, you're basically the company and you are you're 185 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.440 sort of mirroring the company's expertise or vice versa, and the mind of your 186 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.840 customers. So yeah, I'm not back to the channel being a you know, 187 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:48.720 agnostic two channels. Those just work for us. It's where I feel 188 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.679 most comfortable and I like owning all of our assets, which is why our 189 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.600 website is the hub for everything, but it certainly doesn't have to be. 190 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.720 But those are the channels for be to be especially that I would start thinking 191 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.720 about. Is Your website on point? Is Your CEO, CMO cheap marketing, 192 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:07.600 our product officer on Linkedin and then we can talk about the you know, 193 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:13.039 the twitters, the facebook's the course, but I mean if those two 194 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:16.120 aren't an order, you know you're not doing it right in my opinion. 195 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.399 So okay. So there's going to be some that are going to be like 196 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.360 yeah, I'm I'm active on Linkedin Ken, but there's not the strategy piece 197 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.360 behind it. Give me, like, what this is practically looked like for 198 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:30.519 you, maybe some examples of how this plays itself out. Yeah, I 199 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:35.679 mean, the number one thing to do on linked then again is I'm sorry 200 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.519 for all the strs out there hustling working hard, but if I'm the VP 201 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.240 of marketing and I'm trying to build out my marketing strategy, we need to 202 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.000 start at the sea level and the founder in the CEO or the most compelling. 203 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.279 For obvious reasons, I don't have my data beside me, but it's 204 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:52.960 not where thirty percent of our revenue comes from. So I'll leave it at 205 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:58.399 that. Alex's profile. And so the first thing is just I mean, 206 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.159 instead of like this is what I like to do on the weekends and here's 207 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:03.960 where I went to school in my about page, think about. Back to 208 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.799 what we just talked about. WHO's my target customer? What keeps them up 209 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.879 at night? What do I do that removes them? You know that pain 210 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.960 allows them to go to sleep, and that should be the focus of your 211 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:16.720 profile. Do you have a checklist that makes their life easier? Did you 212 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.480 give a talk? You know, I gave a talk at inbound. It's 213 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:22.919 right in my profile. They can go see it. That's positioning me as 214 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.039 an authority. Or I you know, a free guide for SASS COMPANIES AND 215 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.559 SEO. Go get the checklist, like go make your life easier for free. 216 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:33.720 Right. I talked about instead of you know, about myself in my 217 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:35.240 about page. The first four, you know, things that you read in 218 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.840 the first sentence are the number one pains that I hear on every sales call. 219 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:41.519 I just made a list of them and they're right at the top. 220 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:45.159 Like, I don't know how to help with these a hundred things, but 221 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:46.879 these four that you care about or what I care about. Right. So 222 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.120 optimizing the profile. That's what we do, that's what we preach and that's 223 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:54.639 what we help client with our clients with. The second thing I would say 224 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:58.440 is just get very used to spending ten to fifteen minutes a day in the 225 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:03.440 morning with a cup of coffee, just finding things that interest you, reaching 226 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.879 out to a few people and leaving a heart filled comment. People want to 227 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.240 make it more complicated than that, but those relationships will develop over time and 228 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:16.120 it's a it's a positive sort of feedback loop or a flywheel. The more 229 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:18.799 people you comment on, the more we'll see, especially if they're influential. 230 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.480 People will see your comments and interact with you, and that's how relationships are 231 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.399 made. On linkedin, at least ones that are organic, not spamming people 232 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.279 a hundred times in their inbox. And lastly, just think when we think 233 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:33.600 about thought leadership, that word are. That phrase means a lot of things 234 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.320 to everyone, but what I think about is what are you uniquely qualified to 235 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.559 talk about? So for me, executing seo strategies is what I'm good at. 236 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:46.360 Some people might have wrote a book on Seo. Some people might not 237 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:50.399 know a look about Seo, but they have a huge heart for nonprofits, 238 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:54.200 right, and so just spotlighting a nonprofit of the week that they find and 239 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:58.759 present their audience to donate to some whatever you can do, if you have 240 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:02.799 case studies, if you have something interesting that you just did may be raised 241 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:04.480 around a funding. You gave a talk. Those are the kind are. 242 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.600 Yeah, checklist how to style. If you're somebody like can who likes to 243 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.720 give strategy advice, that's what you post. Trying to become viral or a 244 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:18.799 star. That's fine, but it doesn't often result in leads and demand. 245 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:23.000 Leads and demand come from educating and solving problems. So that's my those are 246 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.320 if I had to bucket into the three things that somebody can do tomorrow, 247 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.639 just do that for seven months and then come tell me how your business has 248 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:36.080 changed. So, hey everybody, Benjie here as a member of the sweet 249 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.480 fish team. I wanted to take a second and cheer something that makes us 250 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:44.360 insanely more efficient. Our team uses lead Iq. For those that are in 251 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.799 sales, or you're in Salesox, let me give you context. What once 252 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:52.840 took us four hours to gather contact data now just takes one. That's seventy 253 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:57.360 five percent more efficient. We are so much quicker withoutbound prospecting and organizing our 254 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:03.120 campaigns is so much easier than before. I highly suggest that you check out 255 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.279 lead Iq as well. You can find them at lead iqcom. That's L 256 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:15.759 ADIQCOM. All right, let's jump back into the show. Leads and demand 257 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.480 come from educating and solving problems. So that's my those are if I had 258 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.920 to bucket into the three things that somebody can do tomorrow, just do that 259 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.599 for seven months and then come tell me how your business has changed. So 260 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:32.640 yeah, on the personal side, I think you just gave a gold mind 261 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:34.960 of how to interact. On linkedin, I want to take us to how 262 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.400 you think of the website and the content over there as a hub, because 263 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:42.160 I think that's another really crucial point and something we could hone in on a 264 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:47.759 bit. People have different ways of doing that. To me, your linkedin 265 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.880 strategy like just go rewind what can just said and just listen to that a 266 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:56.119 couple times and that's that's like, yeah, doable tomorrow. Right, you 267 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.640 could implement that and start going with that as a fantastic first step. It 268 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.359 might have a little bit of a higher barrier to entry when we start talking 269 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:10.000 about our websites as these hugs. Yeah, but it's also extremely valuable and 270 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:15.519 important to start taking into account what kind of resources were creating and where people 271 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.759 can interact with us and see the expertise we have. So talk about that 272 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:22.160 a bit and how you think through the website as a hub. Sure, 273 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:27.720 and I try to keep things like superactionable, super high level and free so 274 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.960 that people don't have to deploy a lot of effort or capital until they feel 275 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.920 comfortable. And if you do, then you know, that's for another conversation 276 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.519 where we can get into the weeds. But on the website, back to 277 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.319 I guess sort of always go back to that foundational who is this person? 278 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:45.880 You know what pains do they have features and solutions. So if we're talking 279 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.480 about like the SEO content strategy in a box, I'll talk about each sort 280 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:55.240 of separately. From an SEO standpoint. If I have no if I have 281 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.759 no tools and I have no expertise, the first thing that people want to 282 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:03.279 do is start reading articles on how to optimize two hundred and ten factors from 283 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:07.640 your SEO performance. I say let's not do that. Number One. Is 284 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.880 Your website indexed? Like can if you type it in right now. You 285 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.160 know what I mean. And if it's not, go talk to developer. 286 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.680 Maybe you have a check box done in word press, but like you can 287 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.599 do that in your browser right now. So if all of your pages show 288 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.839 up congratulations. Like that. Step one. You know. Number two you 289 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:29.680 can go and there's a simple checklist that Brian Dean has called on page Seo. 290 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:33.960 Brian Dean Backlinko on page SEO. I won't get into it because that's 291 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:36.880 after the content is produced. But some people are like where can I go 292 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.680 to make sure I do all the little tweaks and things that will get me, 293 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.039 you know, that extra nine or ten steps on my seo stuff. 294 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:48.720 But from there I would say, instead of being obsessed with keyword like volumes 295 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.640 and competitiveness and things like that, I would just start out by saying, 296 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.200 okay, now that I've identify the needs that this person has and the solutions 297 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.599 that we offer, brainstorm, you know, essentially for each feature, brainstorm 298 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:07.359 like twenty phrases and then maybe another fifteen or twenty four what the company is 299 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:10.359 not does. So the features are what it does. The platform what it 300 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:14.400 offers. What is it? Are you a sales enablement platform? You know 301 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.920 that instinctively in your heart. You don't need to do keyword research to know 302 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.440 what your platform is and if you do, you're not ready for dbell marketing. 303 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.440 You need to go back to your go to market strategy and your messaging 304 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.880 strategy. So if you are, that's the beginning of how you can begin 305 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:30.839 to, you know, essentially think about your content strategy and how to optimize 306 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.480 a site. But as far as like the down and dirty, quored research, 307 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.759 that step one. So you take that list, you type each of 308 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.240 those into Google, look at the top five results, put them in a 309 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:45.799 sheet and just those. That's your competitive gap analysis. What pieces of content 310 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.640 do they have? What kind of resources do they have? What kind of 311 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.880 solutions do they talk about? How do they talk about their solutions? So 312 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.000 I always say like keep it super simple, and that's the competitive gap analysis. 313 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.160 And your two outputs are either what are they doing that we need to 314 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.359 emulate because it's working well, or this is where they're at position in the 315 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.839 market where nothing like them. So let's actually stray away from these and here's 316 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.680 where we can carve our niche despite that. And the last aspect of sort 317 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:17.960 of the SEO game is user experience. It's huge for Google these days and 318 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:21.240 other search engines, and to keep it super simple. When you pull up 319 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.200 your website on your phone, does it take more than like four seconds to 320 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.319 load? If it does, you got to go tell your developer or read 321 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.319 about how to optimize it, but it's super simple. Does it look the 322 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.160 same on its mobile device as it does on its, you know, on 323 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.279 your desktop? And then can everyone find all of your content? Like, 324 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:42.640 if those things are taken care of, you're off to the races. And 325 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:47.319 then on the content side, which is sort of my favorite. I like 326 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.720 to think about it as everyone's aware of like the buyers journey or buyers decision 327 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:52.680 making stages. Right, we've got awareness. Somebody's going to make a decision, 328 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.319 they're going to make a purchase or you know, and then they're going 329 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.720 to return or, you know, loyalty or whatever. And if you take 330 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.160 every sort of I'm trying to think of the easiest way to say this, 331 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:08.119 but the thing that you have to do is say, when somebody's going to 332 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.160 make a decision about me, what do they have to learn at first? 333 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.519 If they have no idea, what my solution is? What if they have 334 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.160 to educate tomorrow, it might be educate right. Ours might be the B 335 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.839 Tob Seo strategy overview. It's not even a technical guide. It's just like, 336 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.319 literally, this is what this is, is how to communicate the value 337 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:30.519 exactly your CEO. On the lower stages it's like you need to talk about 338 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:33.319 your product. What are the features? Now you get to be nerdy. 339 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.680 Now you get to say what you differentiates you in the market. Then they're 340 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.440 sort of we need to make a decision around the solutions that those features offer. 341 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.680 That's back to the solutions we mapped out and all of this you're creating 342 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:48.319 content for. Right then it's social proof, case studies, testimonials, you 343 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.759 know, but industry verticals you serve. And finally, where are they going 344 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:53.680 to convert? Are they going to download something? Are they going to sign 345 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.319 up? Is there a start? Now, you know, get free trial 346 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.640 page, whatever. But if you just think about it like that and create 347 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.400 those assets without any strategy in mind of like, I don't know how to 348 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.119 optimize this, but if it's live at least when somebody comes to the site, 349 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:11.079 whether we handspoon them to it, they'll convert better. But it's also 350 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.759 going to be working in the background as you learn how to optimize it. 351 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.079 So a little long winded, but that was a lot of stuff condensed in 352 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:22.000 a short period of time. So No, I think that's it's absolutely excellent 353 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:26.559 and it's when the content piece specifically because I could ask a ton of followup 354 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.920 questions here. But having those assets created in your content, it has a 355 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.920 natural call to action that flows to the next part of essentially, we all 356 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:40.160 know it's not a just an easy funnel that's just this perfect thing, but 357 00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:45.920 it has a bit of a built in call to action to the next step. 358 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.839 That is so useful in your content. If you're thinking about taking someone 359 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:53.759 logically through all of the steps and educating them all the way through conversion, 360 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:57.519 it's going to give you an eat a very easy way to continue to call 361 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:02.279 people to the next part your funnel. So can I love that, I 362 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:06.839 think the most over, how do I say this? The thing I've heard 363 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:11.839 the most can when it comes to inbound is how am I going to actually 364 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:18.680 map this to revenue objectives? Like early on? That's a common fear. 365 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.240 If we go heavy into content, if I go heavy on Linkedin and we 366 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:27.279 don't see those numbers, especially to those that are in organizations that hyper focus 367 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:33.440 on KPI's, they're going. I I have to bear this out to my 368 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.680 boss. We have to be able to like show. So what is your 369 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.079 answer, because I know you're getting that push back from time to time, 370 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:48.400 of course it. Yeah, truly depends on how sophisticated their existing attribution is, 371 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.400 and so we don't even start campaigns before having analytics and attribution tracking stile. 372 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.759 Then, in fact, we set that up for people who don't have 373 00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.519 it. But I would say to the person starting out and you have none 374 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:03.559 of that information, no historical data, you're going to you're going to be 375 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.920 wrong, but being wrong is going to hinder you from getting started if you 376 00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.799 focus too much on projections before starting, when you have zero data and you 377 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:15.440 have no campaigns prior. So what we tell those folks is to all of 378 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:22.039 your assets on the beginning stages are basically sales enablement until Google picks them up, 379 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:25.480 you know what I mean, and their conversion Rey optimization before they start 380 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:27.559 working for you from an Seo and content. That's why I said if you 381 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:30.680 map them to the funnel and you send somebody there, they see your linked 382 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.480 in and go to your site, which they will, they'll at least get 383 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:37.759 to pick and choose their own adventure to get that confidence to when they're ready 384 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.400 to buy and then we can start to make those sort of quantitative decisions. 385 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.559 So for New People, do the things in the right order that I just 386 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.519 mentioned before you start worrying about too close of projections. But for folks that 387 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.200 have maybe they've done some seo or they have a bit of traffic because they're 388 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.680 an older, more mature company, you're essentially, if you want to do 389 00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:57.359 a good projection, you just have to start saying, well, if we've 390 00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:02.960 gotten five conversions and this many mpls and they've converted, you know, with 391 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.119 this percentage to sales qualified leads, and we've built x amount of posts and 392 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:10.519 x amount of links. Right, it's just many. It's just manipulating variables. 393 00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:14.039 We know that this link was weighted like this because you know it led 394 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.319 to x amount of traffic increase for this post and this many people converted from 395 00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:21.519 this post. So the tracking that you need something like search console or a 396 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:25.720 keyword tracker. That way you can say this keyword grouping led to this page 397 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.319 of content, because it's a one to one usually for a content ranking. 398 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:33.000 That led to this amount of traffic which, if you have proper conversion tracking 399 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.039 set up, that led to this many conversions and if that's plugged into your 400 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:40.519 crm, this page led to this conversion in this customer. Over time so 401 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:45.000 it's not actually hard. I think SEO skirt around it. The challenge isn't 402 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.200 tracking it, Benjie, it's it's getting people to understand that. You know 403 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.480 the timelines for Seo, particularly for people who haven't started, and I hate 404 00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:53.799 the whole it takes six months to a year. It takes how long it's 405 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:59.960 going to take given your budget, infrastructure and strategy. And really we should 406 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.599 be held accountable to performance. But it's iterative and it's like, after two 407 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:07.599 months, if we've increased leads by x and that's not good enough for you, 408 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:08.759 well, why isn't that? You know, why is that? Are 409 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:14.000 you struggling internally? Is Cash an issue or you know? Do you not 410 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.559 know how bad you were doing before? So we do have that conversation and 411 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:22.200 we do set goals, but projections are difficult with search because obviously things change 412 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.119 all the time. So I would tell people just stay on top of your 413 00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:26.960 stay on top of your numbers and make sure your attribution styled and to make 414 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.240 sure that, yeah, within a reasonable sixt eighth month period of time at 415 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.880 least, your kpis are trending towards being a return on your investment. So 416 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.480 that's the smart thing to do, or also give up to early before it 417 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.440 starts working. So Kay, I don't give up too early and continue to 418 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:44.559 iterate and you're going to see success. And what's great is you can constantly 419 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.799 be iterating, which is a key part to this entire strategy. Okay, 420 00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:55.279 I know you've worked with numbers of B TOB SASS marketing departments. So I 421 00:27:55.279 --> 00:28:00.599 want it finish up our conversation with this. Knowing what you know now and 422 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.240 knowing you're talking to a room full of B tob marketers, what would be 423 00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:07.960 your call to action coming out of this conversation? What would you invite us 424 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:12.799 to reconsider as we leave, and what would be maybe the mindset shift that 425 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:17.000 Ken is is calling us towards? Can I can? I do too. 426 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.680 You can give us too. You get two billboards today, okay, the 427 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:26.720 number one, three megaphones right right to billboards. I'm just I'm taking everything, 428 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:30.200 but no, and it's I say this all the time. Them people 429 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:36.359 are so I think engineers lend themselves to being perfectionists to their own detriment and 430 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:41.759 production, because indexing takes time and Google to even for your content, even 431 00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.720 ship. You can't. I think people think they don't want to put out 432 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.559 poor quality. But you can still be efficient. So see what happens if 433 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:51.640 you double your production, find a way to be more efficient, to get 434 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:56.240 things produced both on Linkedin or whatever other platform or channel utilize and your site. 435 00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:59.559 Tell me what happens. I think you it'll force you into being efficient 436 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.039 and you'll get past that analysis process of well, we're not posting or not 437 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.640 creating these assets because they're not good enough yet. Yeah, well, the 438 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.759 year it's taken you, you could have had really good data or a lads 439 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.920 coming in from that. So just, you know, stop being weird, 440 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.559 get out of your own way and in find a way to in double, 441 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.640 double production, I'll say it double production. The second thing, and we 442 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.880 didn't get some super dive into this, but is around just basically the intent 443 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.680 of the searcher and what the piece of content is for. I see a 444 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.440 lot of companies they're like, I want to rank for sales software and that 445 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.319 they created a splash page, a sales page for it, and I'm like, 446 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.599 just do me a favorite, pull at your phone. I'll have people 447 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:37.599 do this. And I was like what do you see there? Like a 448 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.799 bunch of resources and blog post I was like, okay, what is it? 449 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.400 What does that mean? People want to learn something and you're asking them 450 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.119 to come home with you when you should have just introduced yourself, and that's 451 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.160 then what they were having to drink. Like that's the difference, right, 452 00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.079 if we're using that analogy and so understanding, like what is this the intention 453 00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.359 behind this search for Seo, and why are we making this content, and 454 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:00.839 how is it going to help them make a buying decision, whether it's us 455 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:06.960 or someone else? That's how you make money. Fantastic, man. Can 456 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.640 I could talk to you for an hour, probably multiple hours, on this 457 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.279 topic specifically, but I think this is a actionable episode and it hits people 458 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.599 in multiple different places, because we're always going to be iterating on these things, 459 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.839 asking more questions about this. If you know, I know if you're 460 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:30.200 listening to this podcast, you're a learner and you're wanting to continue to get 461 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.480 better and help your organization, and so can, you're helping us do that 462 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.039 and we really appreciate it. They're going to be those that want to stay 463 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.039 connected with you. Clearly, you're all about linkedin. That's how you and 464 00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:41.839 I first got connected, and this is part of strategy for you. But 465 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:48.359 any other ways resources to point us. Two ways to stay connected. Yeah, 466 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:52.680 always on Linkedin. Come say hi, I don't bite, and then 467 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.319 if you go on the site used to look over it or you type anything 468 00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:00.400 and you'll see that we offer strategy road maps. Not only is it a 469 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.839 really dope tool that I built to help that process, but it is free 470 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:06.200 and, like I said, we we don't do scopes until we've given you 471 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.640 a consultation, and the cool thing about that is they're still a lot. 472 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.839 I think you know, most of them are going to be like with me, 473 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.319 we do. That's still with me, and so I what I want 474 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.960 to do is essentially tell people here's what you need to go do in life, 475 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.240 and if that aligns with us, then it's a win win. If 476 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.920 not, then people talk about them. It's really cool. So it's like 477 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.279 a a nice little leg gen for us. Even if people they like, 478 00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:27.039 look what I got, I got a road map for free, and I 479 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.559 like yeah, it's great, go tell your friends. So yeah, that's 480 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.240 the best way. Man. Appreciate it. Man, this has been fantastic. 481 00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:40.720 Again, can is the chief growth officer at revenues in and if you 482 00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:44.640 go to our show notes, you're going to see links to the website, 483 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.200 to Ken's Linkedin, and that's an easy way to connect. And then also 484 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.480 want to say if you're listening to this and we have yet to connect on 485 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.400 Linkedin, I would love to chat with you about marketing business life over there, 486 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:59.039 and so never hesitate to reach out. If this is your first time 487 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:01.079 listening and you haven't yet subscribed to the show, want to make sure you're 488 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:07.480 following so you never miss an episode and keep doing work that matters can thank 489 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:09.680 you so much for stopping by and being part of be to be growth today. 490 00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:13.640 Thanks for having a man and subscribe to Benjie. He's a fun guy, 491 00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:30.640 so appreciate it. We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the 492 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.839 front lines of marketing. If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer 493 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:38.279 that you think we need to have on the show, reach out. Email 494 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:43.799 me, ben dot block at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I look forward to hearing 495 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:44.119 from you.