Transcript
WEBVTT
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Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth, this
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is Bob Growth. My name is
Benjie Block. I'm your host and joined
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today buy a new friend, Tim
ricords. Tim, thanks for joining us
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here on be tob growth today and
my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
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Absolutely so, Tim. You are
the director of social and content strategy
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at hearsay systems, and that sort
of encompasses quite a bit, but maybe
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tell me a little bit of of
your background in the work that you do.
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Absolutely so, and here's say we
are a company that focuses on last
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mile engagement for companies that are selling. We specialize in social selling. We
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are social media platform. We also
do compliant texting and individual sites for firms
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in the financial services industry. So
it's integrated experience selling suite of products that
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we provide and my job is to
do outreach to our customer base with about
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anything related to their social strategy or
their content strategy within social and that is,
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to be more specific, what we
call organic social so nonpaid social selling,
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typically in the insurance and Financial Services
Wealth Management Industries. Prior to that,
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I worked for a really long time
at Charles Schwab the Ro Corid here
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in the United States. Yeah,
I started as a copywriter in their inhouse
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agency and I ended up as a
director of marketing for client engagement for their
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retail brokerage business. So, folks
who are investing for the future, for
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the retirement fantastic, and we're going
to tap into some of your wealth of
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knowledge today on ourganic social on a
be testing and excited to do that.
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But when we were having our conversation
offline, I had this image kind of
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pop into my head that I think
sets up where we're going to go,
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and I imagined that you kind of
like just someone, just you win two
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tickets to like a fight of the
year and too boxers, to top boxer.
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You kind of hop on this flight, you pick picked up in a
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limo, go to like Caesar's Palace
and Vegas or something. And if you're
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like me, you're not super into
boxing. So maybe I don't even know
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who's on the card and then I
like get there, in one corner the
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only boxer I know. It's Mike
Tyson. He's in blue shorts. In
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the other corner, red shorts,
it's Mike Tyson. Like what the heck,
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it's to Mike Tyson's, but they're
just slightly different and that's where they
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starts to break down a little bit, Tim. I'll tell you. But
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the reason I bring that up is
because I think that sets up AB testing.
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Slight differences, right, little things
that we test, little things that
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we change, we pin them in
two different corners and then we say which
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one ends up kind of winning the
fight in a sense. Does that make
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sense to you, Tim, when
we start to kind of discuss a be
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testing here? Absolutely, I mean, I think so from a broad perspective.
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You know, anytime you're testing you've
got two entities going against each other
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in a given context. And to
take the fighting analogy a little bit further,
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oftentimes we're testing stuff like I'm going
to have Mike Tyson fight Toyota Corolla.
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Right, we're testing is it don't
really the same. They may not
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even be striving for the same goals, and so you're going to get a
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result that maybe isn't useful. Yes, you dig down a little bit and
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maybe we are indeed testing to individuals
who are boxers. But one person isn't
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a boxer, is a chef,
for example. You might figure out how
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the boxer can inflict physical pain on
the chef, but the chef can cook
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a really good meal. HMM,
you've identified a difference there, but it
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hasn't helped you move forward. So
with AB testing at its most top level,
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you know, you're essentially, in
our world anyway, taking two different
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types of marketing assets, or in
this case social posts, and you're letting
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them out into the wild. Then
you're seeing which one did better based on
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how you're measuring your performance. Yeah, with a bee. As you move
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farther down the road, you're the
two assets or the two items you're testing
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become much closer and much more similar
to each other, because you're really trying
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to dig into a single thing or
a small group of things that are making
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the difference. So there are people
who specialize in testing from have science backgrounds,
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and they're those people listening to this
podcast will probably be cringing to my
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so of these terms. Keep it. I'm a marketing communitions person, but
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I think the general principles apply.
By comparing items that are similar, that's
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the way you can really dive into
finding out what might actually be producing better
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or worse results. Yep, Yep, what makes you so passionate about this
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topic? Maybe do you see it
often done wrong? I'd love to know
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where that passion comes from. Sure
from a passion perspective. So what's interesting
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about the setting up a test is
you have to make some key decisions that
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are often not made in a very
strict stance when in the marketing profession.
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Is because a person in that profession. Yeah, so when you're going test
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something, you really have to decide
what is the desired outcome of this campaign,
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or what does the desired outcome of
this series of social posts? Sometimes
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in the real world the desired outcome
of a marketing campaign is simply to run
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the marketing campaign. Sometimes that's the
top goal. You know you need to
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do this thing, you know that
if you do this thing you're going to
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get some results and you can measure
those, but really you're not super clear
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on what you're trying to drive.
When you go down the road to testing,
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it forces you to be way more
specific. So, to use an
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example, if you are going to
run an organic program for your podcast,
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you may think back and decide,
okay, of all the items that I
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want out of this, could be
grow my net work right, could be
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get the online engagement, likes and
whatever, shares, retweets, or could
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be visits to your website for some
sort of lead form activity. I'm not
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sure. Well, if you're going
to test, you to decide which one
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of those most important, and it
doesn't necessarily mean that in some huge value
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judgment perspective, one is ultimately better
than the other, but is what's more
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important in this particular moment for this
campaign. So that kind of focus is
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really valuable because it helps clear away
a lot of the distractions and actually helps
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you make better decisions, because when
you're reviewing the creative, and for those
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of you who not be failing with
that term, that's the pictures and words
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and all marketing, like, most
of the time for marketing gets spent in
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arguing over the creative, which you
know is the most subjective of all things.
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But as you're reviewing your creative and
as you're reviewing your distribution plan,
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you always can go back to okay, well, are we driving the most
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important thing here? Yeah, we'll
make decisions easier. It gives you an
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objective framework for that. So that's
why I'm passionate about it, because it
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helps cut through a lot of the
noise that we create for ourselves and try
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to make these complicated decisions. And
then, you know, what's also great
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about it is that you can test
these items and get a result that you
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feel is important and from there it
gives you a wonderful set of decisions to
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make to move forward. If one
thing was better than the other, do
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we want to revalidate the test and
recreate it? Do we want to take
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the results and then take the winning
item and test that? I get something
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else. So your your program then, is moving forward like from an evolutionary
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perspective, versus simply being Oh,
we're going to do some marketing now,
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put some stuff out there and then
we're going to rest because that was really
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hard. Then we're going to put
more stuff out. It gives you a
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nice road port towards seeing actual improvement. It optimizes it. It does it's
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all about optimization. I think that, especially in social media, you know,
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what gets press, what people notice, are things that go viral and
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the reality is really hard thing to
chase, not worth chasing. Often right
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it's not. I don't think you
can't. It's sort of like, oh,
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how am I going to create a
black swan event, and that's the
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whole point, is that you don't
know how that works. That's why it's
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a black swan of it. So
unless you're in a situation where you have
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such an online following and influence or
you're using an influence or who can you
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know has a higher capacity to drive
virality, you're better off focusing on this
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slow, steady, thoughtful, optimized
approach. It gives you those small incremental
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improvements that over time, have a
huge have a huge impact. As you're
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doing this and you're trying to optimize, do you see certain channels right now
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that you think are best for a
be testing? Does it depend campaign to
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campaign? What do you think is
when it comes to actual channels for this?
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Well, that's a really interesting point. So if we're talking about marketing
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channels in general, I think where
you're going to get the best testing results
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is where you have the most control
totally. And so the way you get
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control is you either own the control
or you buy the control. So although
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supposedly email died ten years ago,
it's still here and still valid. When
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you own people's email addresses, you
control which audience sees your communications. So
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that's a really good way also,
if you're going to buy media, so
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and let's just say that you're going
to buy online media, you're going to
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buy banner ads and such, the
agencies from whom you're buying. They will
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help you understand who you're targeting and
you have a higher sense of control.
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With organic social you have less control
in many ways because it's the algorithms of
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the social media networks that decide if
you're opposed to seeing and by whom,
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that you can do things to increase
the visibility of your posts, but you
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have a lot less ability to dictate
that they're going to be seen. So
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it makes it a little bit trickier. When I think of a be testing,
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I think of it in the micro
and the macro. Sometimes you can
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do big changes, sometimes it's just
as small. As I was saying,
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to start right, just the color
slightly different. Let's go small here.
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So to give us what you would
be considering, or what someone running in
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Ab test would be considering when they
go to the micro. And what types
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of small changes are we testing?
Sure so like, for example, take
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your own channels. Let's take your
website or the destination page that you're marketing
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your marketing leads to. So you
own that entire experience and I've had results
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on projects I've worked on where we
just change the color and size of a
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button. Everything else was the same. That's the famous Google result that they've
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tested their home page, I don't
know, a bazillion times to optimize how
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well it works right, and you'll
notice that it doesn't get more complicated over
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time, unlike maybe what a traditional
marketer in control of the Google home page
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would have created, a giant thing
of texting, images and worring becomes a
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NASCAR car. Exactly what we have
is a box, essentially, and they've
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messed around with size and color.
So that's a really small test, but
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it can have incredible results. We
did some work, I'm in one of
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my prior positions where we had a
destination page and the team that own that
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page moved a button from one position
of the page to the other other position
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of the page and increased the clicks
and conversion by like over a hundred percent
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something by making that more visible.
So that's like a small thing. You
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can also be pretty small in terms
of images. So does a certain type
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of image matter? Just certain words
matter, and from there you you get,
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you get more complicated and you add
more variables. So, from where
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you sit, you're not the one
actually running these tests, but you have
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you know, you're advising your consulting, you're thinking through these things. Who
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Do you see in these gating that
conversation? Is it someone that's at the
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design level going, hey, we
should just try to move this button over?
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Is it someone from a consulting perspective
going hey, tried this? How
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do those conversations take place? It's
a really interesting question. I think the
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answer is that it's highly variable.
Typically, the idea to test comes from
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someone who who owns the results in
some shape or form. So if you're
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the project or product owner or if, in this case could be on this
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podcast, the business owner, you
may be thinking, I understand why people
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are dropping off my page. Maybe
I might. Adobe data tells me that
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they start entering stuff into my form
fill and then they abandon or I have
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a really high bounce rate. So
Gee, that to me that's a problem
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to be solved. How can I
start to understand how to solve this problem?
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I should consider testing. Likewise,
from my perspective, sometimes I'll work
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with the one of our clients and
they'll say, hey, would you just
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take a look at our program and
I'll look at their program and notice that
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maybe performance is low for a specific
topic area, and then I look at
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the creative units and they may look
very similar, and then that's really easy
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for me to look smart. there. I'm like, well, why don't
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we consider taking the same topics but
changing the way that those posts are constructed
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and see if we can get meaningful
results? So anyone really throughout the entire
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kind of creation chain of a of
a project should have the ability to say
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I think we should us to see
if it works better. But sometimes it
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just depends on the company itself.
You know, who has who has the
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juice to say we need to stop
and test, or who's the most who's
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the most implicated in the success?
Yeah, obviously this is going to vary
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a little bit project to project.
But when you think of even the website,
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example, and you're running a test, do you see there being like
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an optimal time frame that you would
suggest long enough? Obviously you're going to
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need to gather some data. So
what do you think when it comes to
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time? So this brings up kind
of a funny story from my past.
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You know I would often, when
I was in marketing, out work with
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the data science team and be a
couple of people that I worked with all
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the time on my particular slice of
the business and their data science people.
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So they would have a specific number
of impressions in order for the test to
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be statistically valid, and that takes
time and so I would always have this
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conversation like yeah, I don't need
statistically valid, I just need directionally correct
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and the kind of Wowlee. Over
time we got to a good midpoint.
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So it really depends on how much
exposure you have. I don't know the
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exact number, but like sure the
Google home page, they can probably run
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test all during the day because I
have enough people hitting it. But you
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need to make sure that it's a
it's a significant number that you based on
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like your normal response, right.
You want to make sure that you're getting
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you know, if you have a
hundred, if I had a hundred hits
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to a page and a day,
I'd want to test that thing over several
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days because the more you test,
the more you can smooth out any of
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that kind of randomness and statistical noise. With something like an email. We
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used to put it out in the
market and then we would wait a week
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to ten days before we started counting, just to give a chance to be
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in the open if you're thinking about
your social media activity, if you're the
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person who's controlling the post. So
I do little experiments myself with my own
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Linkedin, instance, and sometimes on
instagram. I will put a post out
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and then I won't really think about
how will it did for at least several
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days. Give it a chance to
be out there, and so then I
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can afterwards, I can come back
and have a sense that's enough. The
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thing that's important to not do is
to just draw conclusions too early, and
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that can be challenging because, you
know, especially have a lot of energy
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behind a test, people want to
know did it work? Yeah, I
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am guilty of that, especially on
social right like the quick give it,
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yes, give it a minute,
walk away. Sure, social wides nature
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supposed to be instantaneous. Way To
instantaneous. Things are funny. Like recently
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did some testing on Linkedin for myself
and I had a post that was still
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generating additional responses weeks later, so
which really surprised me. I hadn't run
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into that before. So you have
to give things some time. One way
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to kind of deal with that impatience
is that if you if you're running tests
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on a regular cadence, you're always
going to have some things that you think
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are, quote unquote, done enough
to allies and I can help. It's
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really hard when you test one thing
and then you're in a vacuum waiting.
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It's like toast. Hey everyone.
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growth for a while, you know
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That's why we're really excited about shield
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let's get back into the show.
Yeah, what do I do until
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this test is over? But when
you got a backlog and you know the
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next thing you're going to iterate on, you got time to rethink. Okay,
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so that's micro level. Span out. Let's go to macro. So
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then when we start talking at a
macro level, we're talking about things like
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you might go a product ad versus
a story based add there's several things we
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can do when we get to the
macro. Talk me through what you're thinking
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through Tim when you think of macro
a be testing. Sure, so,
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just as in a hypothesis, let's
say that I've created a new GIZMO that's
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going to help you with your posture, and I'm taking a non financial services
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example, just because then we don't
have to talk about legal or compliance.
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Right, we'll just we'll just go
to a product that that doesn't have a
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ton of regulation behind it and is
that is probably a little more kind of
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day to day. So let's say
it's a thing that's going to help you
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with your posture. All medical compliance
and legal to the side. So you
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may want to think it first.
Well, I don't really know. I
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haven't seen this before in the market
place. I'm not really sure what story
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about this item is going to attract
people's attention. I have, however,
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focused down the group I think is
interested. So what we're going to take
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different audience groups and set that aside. We're going to assume we've got an
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audience define right. So a very
pragmatic way to move forward is to say,
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okay, well, let's start.
On one hand, let's talk about
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what the product is and does and
use that Lens, and then on the
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other hand let's talk about what it
does for people. What is the effect
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on the individual? So there's a
whole school of thought, which I think
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has been pretty validated, that when
you talk to people about something that solves
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a problem for them, if you
can identify the problem to be solved and
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you talk about how that problem is
solved. You typically have good results,
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but that's not always the case.
It could be that that this particular product
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is so unique in and of itself
that people get Trans Transfixed by the story.
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But if you created those two different
ways and you could go out and
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test that, like something like let's
say you're going to do some I don't
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know, paid social on Instagram,
you might run these two different creative sets
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and then see which one gets better
results. And that I'll give you valuable
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information because you can think, Oh, if, assuming you get you get
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clear enough indication at one's better than
the other, then you can just say
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well, this horse one. Let's
continue to ride this horse right, see
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if we then then okay, now
we're talking about the story, about the
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product, what it's going to do
for someone great. So I have that.
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HMM, what can I change there
that's different to see if it works
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better. And maybe that has to
do with certain words or maybe it has
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to do with certain images. It
could be a variable in your ad by
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and your at placement, a bunch
of different things, but the ideas just
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then take one other item and test
against that and then keep moving forward in
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be to be and in finance,
I'm sure at we we are very prone
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to not going story based. Luckily, I think there is a movement to
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get away from just the stats driven
stuff and understand people our story base.
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Huh, it can be hard.
I mean, I think you want to
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show efficacy and the way we do
that typically is with numbers. What I
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think, though, is so fascinating
about be to be is that for a
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long time we just kind of assume
that because it was business, it wasn't
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about people. And it's absolutely about
people. It's absolutely about the person who's
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making that that buying decision. So
if you can figure out a way to
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present your product in a light that
says, this is how I can solve
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a problem for you and make your
life easier, this is how I can
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contribute to your success and you have
more, more success. And just talking
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about the numbers. Years ago,
Oracle used to do these ads on the
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back of Economist magazine that literally were
like just numbers. It would be an
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oracle does point nine seven percent better
than sap. That was it and I
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never understood and I guess it must
have been successful because they kept doing it,
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but part of me wondered if maybe
it was just successful because it was
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a giant placement that said Oracle on
the back of the economist right. I
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just that message never occurred to never
seem to solve a problem for anybody other
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than the implicate this is better.
Yeah, so I think it's great if
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you can understand your market and have
that quote unquote, conversation with them through
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your marketing and really you get down
to the person and and you know,
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we'll probably trying to solve for them. How is what you offer going to
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help them succeed? The value of
AB testing to is if you have a
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boss who is leans heavier into the
number side and you want to run a
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test, you can just show them
in one test that the bar is low
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for the where you have to start. You can just try one thing,
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you suggest one thing. So I
love the the ability there to to tweak
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into to try. You brought something
up earlier that I wanted to touch on
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because you bring in compliance and regulations. So for that example we put that
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to the side. But the truth
is that's not where you work right.
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You have to constantly be thinking through
compliance and regulation. That makes things complicated.
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Walk me through how that complicates things
and then how you have additional things
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you've got to be thinking about.
Sure. So let's take take something like
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financial advice. HMM. So there
are many very important regulations and considerations that
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need to be reviewed before you public
publish something about financial advice. And you
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know the origin of those is a
totally different story. But the end,
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whether or not it's a pain in
the neck because a different story. The
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driver behind the regulations is a good
driver. You're trying to not missleap people
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totally. You need to be fair
and balanced. So when you get into
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marketing, where sometimes people, let's
say, might stretch the truth or maybe
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take the truth and try and presented
in a little different light, you have
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to hit the happy medium where what
you're saying is follows the regulations but still
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places yourself or your your product in
a good light. So what it really
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forces you to do, I think
you know, if you're a creative person
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trying to come up with messages and
images, it actually makes the job more
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challenging. It's a bigger challenge.
It hampers a little bit what you can
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do, but I think probably that's
a good thing in the end result,
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because it forces you to dig deeper
and get to this core problem to be
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solved for the audience. From a
collaboration standpoint, it really requires you to
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work closely with a bunch of different
partners, so the people who specialize in
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compliance and legal, your creative your
strategists, even your data people, because
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they have a hand in deciding what's
going to be tested or not. Honestly,
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you know, it's always easy to
throw darts at regulation and requirements,
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but I think even if you had
a product like the back Gismo I was
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describing, or or, I don't
know, something that's going to improve you
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your physical appearance, if you think
about these requirements and guidelines as as a
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way to get to what's honest,
you should have those for your product anyway.
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Right you should be talking about yourself
or your product in a way that's
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honest and truthful because, especially these
days, if you're not, you will
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be discovered. Authenticity matters. It
does. It may not. Maybe your
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short term play and you're just trying
to move a bunch of gismos or do
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dads and then you're going to disappear, but I mean if you're trying to
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build a at anable business or or
grow your reputation. You need to make
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sure that you're grounded in authenticity.
So that's just required authenticity and it adds
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a little extra again, difficulty level
of difficulty to the communications and requires more
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collaboration. But the other thing is
it does provide some good guard rails and
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then you're able to work from within
those. What it does not do is
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hamper your ability to think innovatively about
how you talk about your product. So
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let's say you're an assurance agent and
you have your own franchise or your own
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business. What your products are,
that's defined by the companies who provide the
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products, but the service you provide
and how you present yourself and how you
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connect with your local community, that's
completely up to you. So that's a
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very big broad cameras from which you
can work and then try and, you
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know, test and experiment your way
to what you think is a most authentic
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for you and be that works the
best within that framework, because organic socialist
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something that clearly works and it's something
that your you're thinking about and consulting advising
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on how you make sure that you're
doing that effectively while also within these guard
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rails. Wells, you know,
for many of the most, if not
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all, the customers that we work
with right their financial services firm. So
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they have their own internal and legal
departments that review all of the social posts
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before they go out, or least
they the content. So those are the
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guard rails. Therefore, what,
quote unquote, what we can and cannot
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say? So that checks that box
where the the white space is okay.
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Well, how are we going to
say this? How is the how will
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the image or the Post be constructed? And then when will we encourage people
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to put the set that free in
the social networks and how can we train
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them then to take advantage of the
response that it that it generates? So
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these firms all have dedicated groups that
make sure that things are compliant, and
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I served both as a creative talking
to the compliance people, trying to explain
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what we're trying to do and having
those conversations, to being the marketer having
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those conversations, and I was also
a series twenty four, which meant I
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actually was the final say on yes
no for publications. I got kind of
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a broad experience in it and if
everybody comes with a good attitude and your
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respectful of other people's concerns, it's
it can be good. You can actually
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sometimes it makes things better than they
would have been before because you're acting in
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a more authentic way and you're making
sure that everyone is is properly protected,
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the firm, the individuals and also
the consumer. Do you have any maybe
387
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:15.559
example of like a complex product or
service that you're offering that you guys explained
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00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.480
in a in a story or you
really hit at the heart and the why
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we're able to translate that effectively that
maybe you could you could share or think
390
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of? So in just in my
experience, I think the most typical thing
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that I had to try to communicate
was financial advice. It's not a product
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per se, it's a service,
but it's something that can be devilishly difficult
393
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to quantify and in this particular case, you know the it's Opaque's confusing.
394
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The level of trust in general is
relatively low. So in one instance,
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the way that we wanted to communicate
this particular advice offering, which was for
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00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.799
people with higher levels of assets and
a more higher level of service, more
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00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.039
attentive, more customized. We and
this was many years ago. At the
398
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:15.640
time it was as this. I'm
going to date myself, but at the
399
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.279
time this was kind of a big
deal. So we ended up shooting videos
400
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of clients talking about their lives and
then we made those available. And so
401
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what we're trying to do is translate
all of these intangible things that the service
402
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:34.079
provided and give them life in somebody
else's story. And what that did is
403
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.960
it it gave space for the viewer
to see themselves in the people we were
404
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:44.920
portraying, and we thought that that
was a better, more visceral way of
405
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:49.279
connecting than giving them a bullet list
of all the things they would get and
406
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:52.480
saying and saying. The worst is
that, when you're kind of trapped in
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you're saying all of the things that
everyone else says, because companies tend to
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copy each other and also in a
highly regulated environment, you end up with
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a shortlist of things you can actually
say. So we felt like that was
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was really successful. Another way we
worked around that problem was we tried to
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focus in on the fact that people
who have higher portfolios have a tendency to
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take a chunk of that money and
want to invest it based on their own
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strategies and then take a chunk of
money and have someone manage it for them.
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And so we were very up front
and recognizing that you were going to
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do some of this on your own, which is great, but in order
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to free you up for that task, would you not want expert help to
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take care of the other components?
And you can see this across financial services
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industry. I mean it is the
famous New York life disclosure, a customer
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of ours, but they had a
famous ad campaign where they were selling insurance.
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But really what you saw on the
screen with somebody holding a baby.
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I don't know if it's been distilled
any better than that. Sure. So
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those are those are powerful ways to
do it and it's a little more difficult
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than having a physical product. But
if you take someone like Nike, who
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took tennis shoes and turn tennis shoes
in a in a method of self expression
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and also a social signal of the
fact that I'm athletic, right, that's
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the alchemy right there make that transition. Well, there's a lot that I'm
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taking away from this conversation. Tim
I'd think of micro and macro in a
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be testing, and maybe this is
just a little prompt for our listeners on
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to is episode to go test something
and do it just slight and variation for
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the next little bit and see what
comes in it. Maybe it's in your
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00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:41.000
personal social strategy. You want to
try that, or for your company.
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00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:45.440
What's a test you could run right
now and get you think it outside the
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box. And then I love the
value of story right. I think we
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come back to that on be tob
growth pretty often because we want to push
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be to be specifically SASS companies,
but we want to push you guys to
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00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.839
really adapt, adapt and adopt stories
into your marketing strategy. Well, let
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00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.720
me because like I just thought something
so we can spice it. I wanted
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00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.000
to see on not note. One
thing we see in social is that levels
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00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:14.680
of engagement are higher in BTB than
there and BTC, which might be counterintuitive
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00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:19.519
but it's actually not. And the
social activity there in the BEDB space is
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00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:23.519
not just informational. It tends to
be more informational, but it's also personal,
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00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:29.160
or it's about me within my job. So it definitely works in the
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00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:32.720
BETB segment. And you had mentioned
stories and that's what it is. You're
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00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:37.400
describing to people what motivates you to
do your job or what you're passionate about,
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00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:43.440
and that works. That will create
engagement and it follows along with everything
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00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:47.599
else we've been discussing. Fantastic Tim
for those that want to stay connected to
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00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:51.720
you and the work that you're doing. What the best way to do that
448
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:53.759
and hit on me what the company's
doing as well? One more time for
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00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:57.799
us, sure. So, if
you want to connect with hearsay systems,
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00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:00.640
you can just look for our company
page on link dinner visit our website.
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00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:06.519
I'm on Linkedin as well. I'm
always open to talking to people and connecting.
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00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:10.839
And if you are very interested in
social selling and how to improve your
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00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.839
last mile engagement with customers and prospects, definitely visit our heirsay site. We've
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00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:21.000
got sweeter products and subject better experts
like myself and other people who can really
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00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:25.160
help you reb that engine. Love
it, but we're always having insightful conversations
456
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:29.319
like this here on be to be
growth. We want to help fuel your
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00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:31.920
innovation, so never miss an episode. Subscribe to be to be growth.
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00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:36.759
Wherever you're listening to this right now, you can connect with me on Linkedin
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00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:52.880
as well. Just Search Benjie Block
and keep doing work the matters. We're
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00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.039
always excited to have conversations with leaders
on the front lines of marketing. If
461
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.839
there's a marketing director or a chief
marketing officer that you think we need to
462
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:05.039
have on the show, reach out
email me, bene dot block at Sweet
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00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:07.039
Fish Mediacom. I look forward to
hearing from you.