#ABM 13: Amplify Your Voice: Turn Your Entire Company Into Marketers w/ Maria Pergolino

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.440 People receive hundreds of digital messages a day, from push notifications to emails. 2 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:10.710 So how do you engage your top prospects and stand out? By sending personalized 3 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:15.310 gifts the old fashioned way. With Sindoso. Soandso helps you use gift giving 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:20.190 and direct mail throughout your customer life cycle, from lead generation to converting customers 5 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:25.820 into brand advocates, from sourcing to sending and centralizing the direct mail and gifting 6 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:29.579 process. So and Doso helps you scale your gift giving, stand out and 7 00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:38.609 keeping your brand top of mine visits and DOSOCOM to learn more. You're listening 8 00:00:38.689 --> 00:00:43.409 to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed 9 00:00:43.409 --> 00:00:47.049 names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and Simon Senek, but 10 00:00:47.170 --> 00:00:51.399 you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk 11 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:55.920 of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are 12 00:00:56.039 --> 00:01:00.200 in the trenches, leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're 13 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.750 experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BB companies in the world. 14 00:01:04.390 --> 00:01:07.069 My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a 15 00:01:07.390 --> 00:01:11.109 podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts of this 16 00:01:11.189 --> 00:01:15.430 show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from 17 00:01:15.469 --> 00:01:19.900 behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of 18 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:23.219 our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, 19 00:01:23.859 --> 00:01:33.769 maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to the ABM series on the 20 00:01:33.849 --> 00:01:38.049 Bob Gross show. I'm your cohost, Dan FROWNIN CMO at Sindo. So 21 00:01:38.489 --> 00:01:42.290 I'm here today with Maria Pergolino, the chief marketing officer at active campaign. 22 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:46.569 Are You doing, Maria? I'm super good. I'm so excited to be 23 00:01:46.609 --> 00:01:49.239 here with you, Dan. Yeah, me too. I think for two 24 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.799 reasons I'm excited, one being that I used to work with you in the 25 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:57.799 past and you're one of my big marketing superheroes, and I think secondarily because 26 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:01.670 it's Valentine's Day and I couldn't think of a better person other than my wife 27 00:02:01.670 --> 00:02:05.310 to hang out with on Valentine's Day. So thanks for taking the time. 28 00:02:05.909 --> 00:02:12.030 That's nice of you to mention. I am in my full like Valentine's outfit. 29 00:02:12.110 --> 00:02:15.229 I have a it's a jacket, very typical to me, but with 30 00:02:15.389 --> 00:02:19.659 hearts all over it. So I am feeling the Valentine's Day and I know, 31 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:22.300 Dan, it has been great to work with you through that. If 32 00:02:22.300 --> 00:02:23.780 got to know your family and I know that you're going to have a great 33 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:29.259 Valentin's Day, not only with your amazing wife, but you're too, high 34 00:02:29.259 --> 00:02:35.650 energy, very cute boys. Gosh, don't remind me, I think. 35 00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:39.490 Before we get started, I wanted to congratulate you on active campaign's first our 36 00:02:39.650 --> 00:02:43.289 massive fund raise. I should say you guys just took a hundred million. 37 00:02:43.409 --> 00:02:46.159 So why don't you tell us a little bit of about active campaign and what 38 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:51.400 your kind of future plans are now that you've got so much money in the 39 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.759 bank to do your thing? Yeah, I know, come you know. 40 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.919 You go onto this and you give your company description with a lot of buzz 41 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:00.870 words. I'll try to make it really simple for everybody. Active campaign's a 42 00:03:01.069 --> 00:03:07.629 customer experience automation platform and what you may think of right now as marketing on 43 00:03:07.710 --> 00:03:10.830 a nation and CRM and customer success. I know we all have tools to 44 00:03:10.949 --> 00:03:15.300 cover some of those areas, but you, like myself, probably feel some 45 00:03:15.460 --> 00:03:21.580 pain with sending out an email the day after a customer is frustrated and having 46 00:03:21.659 --> 00:03:24.740 them feel bad about your marketing not great because it's not kind of a unified 47 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:30.210 approach. Active campaign really helps unify that customer experience so that you can do 48 00:03:30.610 --> 00:03:34.449 better marketing, better sales, and so it's really great to be here just 49 00:03:34.569 --> 00:03:38.849 because it's something I think every marketer thinks about now, customer life cycle, 50 00:03:38.930 --> 00:03:42.080 which is awesome. Yeah, it's a it's an amazing topic. I think 51 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:46.919 is as I'm getting more and more familiar with the space that that were in 52 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:51.159 here. It send oh so that that customer experience peace and really that end 53 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:55.030 to end from not even knowing a person to retaining them as a customers, 54 00:03:55.509 --> 00:04:00.629 such a it's such a nuanced but extremely important journey. So it's awesome to 55 00:04:01.030 --> 00:04:04.030 hear that you guys are solving some challenges there. Yeah, you mentioned the 56 00:04:04.069 --> 00:04:10.580 fundraise. We already have ninety thousand customers in over a hundred and sixty countries. 57 00:04:11.259 --> 00:04:13.939 It's not about, I think, acquisition. A lot of that growth 58 00:04:14.020 --> 00:04:18.220 has happened organically, people spreading the word, but making sure that we continue 59 00:04:18.259 --> 00:04:23.779 to set the bar for great customer experience and, you know, continuing to 60 00:04:23.899 --> 00:04:26.689 grow. A hundred and sixty countries or and this sectually. I think a 61 00:04:26.730 --> 00:04:31.209 hundred sixty one is more than like places McDonald's has customers. And so when 62 00:04:31.209 --> 00:04:34.569 we think about fundraising, I think sometimes we think about like putting all this 63 00:04:34.889 --> 00:04:38.759 money into marketing, but I think the goal here is really to make sure 64 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.160 we can make our customer successful and using that as the core of our marketing, 65 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.879 which is both a big challenge and really fun. I know you guys 66 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:49.319 just had a big fund raise too, and we're excited to see what s 67 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:55.509 and Oso does, because I think that tactile piece, that that you know, 68 00:04:55.709 --> 00:04:59.149 getting something in a customer's hands when you have ninety thousand customers can be 69 00:04:59.230 --> 00:05:02.069 so important in that customer experience. YEA, for sure, for sure. 70 00:05:02.470 --> 00:05:10.060 So I think an interesting topic here. We're on an ABM focused podcast, 71 00:05:10.220 --> 00:05:13.980 but one of the things that that you're known for it is your demand Gen 72 00:05:14.100 --> 00:05:18.779 shops too. So you started at Marquetto really under John Miller and really kind 73 00:05:18.819 --> 00:05:24.370 of took that whole demand waterfall thing and just made it textbook and then when 74 00:05:24.410 --> 00:05:27.930 you made the move over to Aptis and then subsequent companies, you really pioneered 75 00:05:27.930 --> 00:05:32.089 the ABM approach and love to hear from you where you think the intersection points 76 00:05:32.129 --> 00:05:35.360 are of the two and maybe just tell us a little bit about how you 77 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:41.120 think about those two disciplines and how to work them together. Or maybe they're 78 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.040 completely separate in your month. You know I mean, I think at the 79 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.879 end of the day, and I think just knowing you, I think you 80 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.470 think the same way, that it's all about great marketing and marketing is about 81 00:05:49.509 --> 00:05:54.029 getting the right products and the people is in the hands of the right people, 82 00:05:54.269 --> 00:05:58.550 not it's not about just making noise to make noise. And so we 83 00:05:58.709 --> 00:06:01.430 think about marketing. It used to be a lot of ABM because you didn't 84 00:06:01.430 --> 00:06:05.300 have these channels for mass distribution, before digital was around. Right, you'd 85 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:09.779 maybe have a salesperson or maybe an ad but the goal was to get it 86 00:06:09.819 --> 00:06:13.220 always in the right person's hands. But then we were handed things, the 87 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:16.300 Internet, social media, and it became this. You mentioned John Miller what 88 00:06:16.420 --> 00:06:20.649 he would call the air war, right where you're just kind of dropping marketing 89 00:06:20.689 --> 00:06:25.449 and hoping it sticks where it lands. And and that was great for awareness, 90 00:06:25.529 --> 00:06:28.250 but it became noisy. Think about how many white papers are out there 91 00:06:28.370 --> 00:06:31.649 now that nobody has the capacity to read. And so it really became centered 92 00:06:31.689 --> 00:06:35.959 back in and whether you call it abm or just doing a great job and 93 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:41.000 targeting the people that want to hear your message, I think it is that 94 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.639 evolution of the space that just allows us to not annoyed but instead inform the 95 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:50.790 right people. Yeah, I think you're dead on the annoyance and the information 96 00:06:50.949 --> 00:06:55.829 piece. Or are very nuance to what are some of the ways that you've 97 00:06:56.189 --> 00:06:59.509 kind of worked with your teams to, you know, throttle back when you 98 00:06:59.629 --> 00:07:02.339 think you might be annoying your audience is a little bit you know, it's 99 00:07:02.379 --> 00:07:05.620 not even up to US anymore. We see legislation changing to make it that 100 00:07:05.699 --> 00:07:10.540 we just can't annoy everyone. Right. It's a good point and I think 101 00:07:10.540 --> 00:07:15.620 that legislation is important because we do want to to make sure that marketing is 102 00:07:15.769 --> 00:07:18.449 not it's only going to benefit great marketers because if we can get some of 103 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:23.410 that noise out of the way and it clears the path for you know, 104 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:25.930 I'll say to my team, like you know, I don't ever want to 105 00:07:25.930 --> 00:07:28.329 spam, but there are people that want to know about us. How do 106 00:07:28.410 --> 00:07:30.399 we get how do we let them know what we're doing? And that's really 107 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.920 the goal and it's through lots of different channels. I think sometimes we confuse 108 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:40.079 the message with the channels. You know, different people engage in different whether 109 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:45.230 it's on the website or through email or through things like direct mail. It's 110 00:07:45.269 --> 00:07:47.949 taking that message to those right people and using those channels to help share it, 111 00:07:48.110 --> 00:07:51.230 and so we know that. We've got taken a lot from you guys 112 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:56.029 to learn how to do that with Sendoso and now you know, even being 113 00:07:56.069 --> 00:08:03.060 at a company that sells to smaller companies, really making those engagements count and 114 00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:07.139 and getting the right pieces to the right people is what creates the efficiency in 115 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:09.660 our marketing. Yeah, those are all really valid points. You bring up 116 00:08:09.699 --> 00:08:13.170 a point that I wanted to bring up later, and why not bring it 117 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:16.410 up now, is that I certainly know you when I think a lot of 118 00:08:16.490 --> 00:08:20.089 our listeners would. Would really know you as an enterprise marketer, but you're 119 00:08:20.170 --> 00:08:24.370 now very much in an SMB space. We're talking a hundred thirty one countries, 120 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:31.480 Ninety Tho customers. Tell me about you know why why you shifted to 121 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.039 s and be and maybe how you've navigated those waters and where you see some 122 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:41.080 of the similarities and marketing across just all all sizes of market that you've been 123 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.389 in. Yeah, I'm so happy that I'm here at active campaign, but 124 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:46.549 I spend a lot of time choosing the companies that I'm going to go to, 125 00:08:46.669 --> 00:08:50.470 and I think you know well. We go to school for Marketing and 126 00:08:50.950 --> 00:08:54.350 the first thing you're learning about is how to size the market. Maybe this 127 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:56.460 is changed, but back when I was doing my program right, you're learning, 128 00:08:56.460 --> 00:09:01.940 you're for peas and figuring out what the potential is there. And there 129 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:07.379 are so much noise in enterprise software. Every enterprise organization has a hundred things 130 00:09:07.419 --> 00:09:11.889 that they're trying to implement and the I was so excited about working for a 131 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:16.570 company where customers are looking for a solution, where there's a market that's underserved 132 00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:20.929 and where you're doing something where there's been so much put into the product that 133 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:24.759 you feel like you can deliver value. I would definitely recommend to any any 134 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:30.440 marketer considering an opportunity. You know, don't just think about who the bosses. 135 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.639 I actually think sometimes it's great to have a hard boss or you know 136 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.750 somebody who is very different than you, but do things like customer reference. 137 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:41.710 Make sure you're reading the reviews. Don't just read the Glass Door Review. 138 00:09:41.789 --> 00:09:45.710 See what the customer saying and use that to choose an opportunity. And it 139 00:09:45.830 --> 00:09:48.149 was clear to me even before active campaign that I wanted to go somewhere where 140 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.940 there was lots of white space, where people aren't going, oh, how 141 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:54.940 am I going to do all of this, but where they are saying I 142 00:09:54.019 --> 00:09:58.259 need to do something, and smb market offer that, and then active campaign 143 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:03.259 was a solution that was really relevant. Customer experience is something I think we 144 00:10:03.299 --> 00:10:07.409 all think about and so I thought it was a great opportunity. Yeah, 145 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:09.850 that's awesome and I something that I'm super curious about, and I'm sure our 146 00:10:09.929 --> 00:10:13.730 listeners will be too, is, you know, going into this smb world, 147 00:10:15.330 --> 00:10:18.610 what are some of like your kind of go to strategies that you've always 148 00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:22.480 had in your in your tool kit? I'm how have you employed those there, 149 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:28.000 if you found your enterprise experience to be useful here, or if you 150 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.799 found yourself having to learn a whole new set of marketing skills? Yeah, 151 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.360 I think first, as we think about account base marketing, which I know 152 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:41.230 as the theme, while we're going to use things like highlighting customer advocacy customer 153 00:10:41.269 --> 00:10:45.549 success, will use things like referrals as well as a channel strategy, which 154 00:10:45.549 --> 00:10:48.149 may be a little different than those that are thinking pure abm, to do 155 00:10:48.309 --> 00:10:52.100 customer acquisition. I mentioned those ninety thousand customers and those are all accounts we 156 00:10:52.179 --> 00:10:58.019 care about and we've been adding products and been expanding that, the solutions around 157 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.980 customer experience, making sure we're using a great account based strategy to keep them 158 00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:05.009 informed. Marketing to me as a word, that's that's not just about, 159 00:11:05.129 --> 00:11:09.529 like, you know, pitching something, but helping, right, and so 160 00:11:09.009 --> 00:11:13.730 making sure that we're using our marketing to help those ninety thousand customers. Today 161 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:20.519 we're launching some nurturing that's specifically for our alliance partners, right, and and 162 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:22.840 so I would consider that account based marketing and I hope to extend that through 163 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:28.799 other channels, like sending mail pieces to them, engaging with them at in 164 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.950 person events. And so I think as long as you have a customer base, 165 00:11:31.990 --> 00:11:35.149 you're doing account based marketing in some way. Absolutely, I think. 166 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:39.870 I think you nail that. It's down to that human connection, knowing the 167 00:11:39.909 --> 00:11:43.950 audiences. Sometimes it's a persona, sometimes it's the actual person that you know, 168 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:48.179 sometimes it's the account I think it's it's almost human marketing at this point. 169 00:11:48.179 --> 00:11:50.019 Yeah, no, I love that and I think you're right. I 170 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:54.100 don't I don't use that phrase too much because I want everybody to think all 171 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:58.860 of marketing is that human a marketing, but I think it's easy to forget 172 00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:03.649 sometimes. I feel like I'd be doing our listeners are disservice if I didn't 173 00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:07.610 bring up this part of your kind of superpowers and marketing. I think we 174 00:12:07.929 --> 00:12:11.090 talked a lot about ABM and demand Jin and like you're really good at that, 175 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:18.519 but you're also a really killer brand marketer and you have a big point 176 00:12:18.559 --> 00:12:22.559 of view on not only external brand plays but internal and I'd love for people 177 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.440 to learn some of the things that you do there as well. I think 178 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:33.230 brand's a super important because ultimately marketing is is promotions and selling right. It's 179 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:37.110 growing the awareness of the company and then helping sell that solution, like if 180 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:41.789 we were to go to Google by definition, and the reason we don't use 181 00:12:41.950 --> 00:12:46.419 just direct sales forces or just throw up our products online and and hope that 182 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:50.379 people come to them or spend a lot of money maybe to reach out one 183 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:52.539 by one to the people we think is we should buy is that marketing creates 184 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:56.460 an efficiency at the front. So brand is that efficiency. It can be 185 00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:00.330 a massive multiplier. When we look at a brand like Microsoft that's worth over 186 00:13:00.370 --> 00:13:03.769 a trillion dollars. It's larger than most countries. That is not in their 187 00:13:03.809 --> 00:13:07.610 assets, it's in that value is in two things. It's in their Ip 188 00:13:09.289 --> 00:13:11.529 and it's in their brands. And so if you if you don't think about 189 00:13:11.529 --> 00:13:16.159 brand, you're not giving yourself that multiplier. Now I think you have to 190 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.000 be smart about that and you have to do that within your desired base, 191 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.039 with the people that are going to find you relevant, because it can also 192 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.120 be super wasteful. I think brand is also, you know, it's important 193 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:30.509 to pay attention to because your employees care about it's how they're I think our 194 00:13:30.509 --> 00:13:33.750 employees learn a lot more through our websites and through what we're putting out in 195 00:13:33.870 --> 00:13:37.750 social than they do through like the newsletter you send out. And so if 196 00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:39.830 you really want to get a company a line to an overall message up, 197 00:13:39.830 --> 00:13:45.299 brand becomes very important to Yep, for sure, and I think a big 198 00:13:45.379 --> 00:13:48.860 part of getting that brand out there and that message out there is the people 199 00:13:48.980 --> 00:13:52.539 that are in your company, and I know you've always done a really good 200 00:13:52.539 --> 00:13:56.409 job of activating whether it's sales team, marketing team, CSM's, anyone and 201 00:13:56.450 --> 00:14:00.610 everyone you know in a ways an extension of your brand. How do you 202 00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:05.090 how do you mobilize those people and get them as on brand and able to 203 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.679 really talk about active campaign and your past brands? Yeah, I think first 204 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.919 of all it all comes down to message, and you know it's you had 205 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:16.919 to be careful with that because sometimes that message that we think we have perfect 206 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:20.799 as a bunch of buzz words. I think it's also as marketers, I 207 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:26.350 think we know that we can't, we don't necessarily perfectly represent our demographic and 208 00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:30.789 so what we like may not be what they liked. I was super impressed 209 00:14:30.830 --> 00:14:33.429 this morning I was going through some emails. I was behind as as I 210 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:39.899 often get, and, as you would know, Dan and it was I 211 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.539 had an email from another cmo and they said, Hey, we're considering updating 212 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:45.940 our messaging. Can you read through these and let me know what you think? 213 00:14:46.059 --> 00:14:48.460 And Bonus points if you send back some edits, and I was like 214 00:14:50.059 --> 00:14:54.330 wow, like, how great just to like use your network to help with 215 00:14:54.610 --> 00:14:58.090 solidifying that message. And so, like, I love this idea that we're 216 00:14:58.090 --> 00:15:03.570 all in it together and and hopefully somebody here's this, and then things you 217 00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:05.889 for help and then things me for help, because I do think we do 218 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:09.720 it together, and then I think beyond that. But just at the end 219 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:13.480 of the day, like I just mentioned, we had ninetyzero customers. But 220 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.519 let's just say I was at a company where that was more enterprise and let's 221 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.080 say we had let's say we had a let's say a smaller company. Let's 222 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.590 say it's ten marketers, let's say it's a hundred employees or two hundred employees, 223 00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:28.750 and let's say it's two thousand customers and another couple hundred partners. Like, 224 00:15:30.429 --> 00:15:35.220 if you're counting on ten people to spread the word about your whole company, 225 00:15:35.620 --> 00:15:39.740 that's that's really hard. But if you add in then those other ninety 226 00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:43.539 employees, you add in those other two thousand customers, and they're all carrying 227 00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:48.259 that forward to like that's what gives your brand like. You cannot be successful 228 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.409 at brand if you are just counting on your marketing team. You'll never get 229 00:15:50.450 --> 00:15:54.850 there one hundred percent. I couldn't say better myself and I almost want to 230 00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.649 shout it from the mountaintops right now. I think something that you that we 231 00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:03.519 were talking about a little bit earlier in the conversation is the word and the 232 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.799 topic of content, and I'd love to hear from you. Know, you 233 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.320 know now that we've shifted from this demand Jin or even, in some ways, 234 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:17.000 like evolving past account based into really, you know, Customer Life Cycle 235 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:21.190 Marketing and really caring about the entire journey. And and because the definition of 236 00:16:21.309 --> 00:16:26.269 content change to you and in the delivery of said content. Yeah, I 237 00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:29.269 mean I think it all goes back to what we've been saying about having to 238 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.820 really make it relevant and appropriate for your audience. There is so much noise 239 00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:37.299 that it really has to stand out and be useful. I think it can't 240 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:41.220 be just about us. It has to be pain based. Yeah, I 241 00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:45.100 think the other thing is, as much as we want to think about ourselves 242 00:16:45.139 --> 00:16:48.009 as growth marketers and growth hackers, and I do brand or I do demand, 243 00:16:48.009 --> 00:16:52.370 I think what's makes the marketers that have a lot of success great as 244 00:16:52.370 --> 00:16:56.649 they think. You know, it's not just about having one superpower. I 245 00:16:56.730 --> 00:16:59.929 know demand, Dan, you are known for your demand marketing, but I 246 00:17:00.049 --> 00:17:06.680 also know you have great strength in putting product marketing together, looking at content, 247 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.920 being that thought leader, and I think that's what makes you know you 248 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.880 just it has to be more than just that one discipline, because marketing is 249 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.109 not just about adding a bunch of things together. What gives you that bigger 250 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:22.829 effect is being cohesive across all of it, and so what I'd say about 251 00:17:22.829 --> 00:17:25.269 content is not only does that to be strong, it has to be like 252 00:17:25.710 --> 00:17:29.150 woven through all of the marketing you're doing and aligned to a single message, 253 00:17:29.750 --> 00:17:33.380 which takes good leadership and can team members that don't just think within their single 254 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:37.940 role. That's a really good point of you know, one of the things 255 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:41.180 that I would love to unpack a little bit as how what kind of things 256 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:44.259 do you do is as a leader of a marketing function to make sure that 257 00:17:44.329 --> 00:17:49.210 everyone is thinking beyond their their silo and crossing party lines, if you will. 258 00:17:51.009 --> 00:17:52.450 Oh, I like that question, but I feel like I should ask 259 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:56.890 you that because I've driven you crazy with this right being on the team wich, 260 00:17:56.930 --> 00:18:00.759 some of the things that you do that maybe where that we've done into 261 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.839 other companies that do that. I'm sure you have such a good answer here. 262 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.000 Yeah, no, I mean it's funny because I think to your point, 263 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.319 when when I served under your leadership, it was a little nerve reckn 264 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.950 sometimes when you're like, oh my gosh, I got I have to update 265 00:18:14.069 --> 00:18:17.589 this entire team and but I need to do my job and Yada, Yada 266 00:18:17.589 --> 00:18:19.470 Ya. And then when you when you cone to go into your own function 267 00:18:19.549 --> 00:18:23.549 and you start managing a team that's growing, you realize how critical it is 268 00:18:23.710 --> 00:18:30.420 to stop the press is every single week and have half the team do an 269 00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:33.460 update so that the other half can learn and chime in and know what's truly 270 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:37.500 going on, and then the other week make sure that that other side is 271 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:41.970 doing the same so that you have integrated marketing. And you know, one 272 00:18:41.009 --> 00:18:45.650 hundred percent agree with you and that's how I run it now, because if 273 00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:49.130 you're if you're not connected in that way, then you're actually not going to 274 00:18:49.289 --> 00:18:55.210 get that holistic experience for your customer and it's going to look disjointed and you're 275 00:18:55.210 --> 00:18:57.880 going to waste all your resources. Yeah, it's a true you made me 276 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.599 think about so I've been a part of these fast growing teams and so you're 277 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:07.000 constantly hiring, and so I interview a lot of people who are maybe at 278 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:10.670 smaller companies are excited to join a company that's larger, but also ones are 279 00:19:10.750 --> 00:19:14.750 a larger company and when from larger organizations. I'm almost always here, like 280 00:19:15.470 --> 00:19:18.509 it's so sideload, you know, where there's five different groups and we're each 281 00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:22.309 sending an email the same day, and like how that opens the door for 282 00:19:22.589 --> 00:19:26.700 other brands to take a market away from them. I believe the marketing is 283 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:29.940 the front of the ship. I believe if you don't have it right, 284 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:33.220 that it's hard to have anything else in the company right. Like if you're 285 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:37.819 doubting that you're importance in the organization, like push on that leadership, because 286 00:19:37.420 --> 00:19:41.730 marketing done well becomes the most important thing in a company, and I love 287 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:44.329 marketing because of that. Like I want to go to work felling like what 288 00:19:44.410 --> 00:19:48.130 I'm doing is important, and I feel that here, not just in getting 289 00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:52.920 new customers but helping educate our current customers, having relationship with our partners and 290 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:57.200 a scale and ninetyzero customers and like almost ten. It's probably between five and 291 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.079 ten thousand partners. I don't know the exact number, but you can't do 292 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.160 that one on one. So you really have to make your marketing count to 293 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.079 have that impact. But when you when you do it well, it feels 294 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.549 so good. You feel like you're making such an impact and so if you're 295 00:20:10.549 --> 00:20:14.750 a marketer that doesn't feel that way about your job, like chase that because 296 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:18.390 it feels so good when it's happening. Yes, I couldn't agree more. 297 00:20:18.549 --> 00:20:22.539 I think we try to instand. We have to pause this interview because you've 298 00:20:22.579 --> 00:20:26.180 agreed with a lot and I feel like when we work together it was like 299 00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.980 I would go to you to disagree with me. So, yeah, I 300 00:20:30.019 --> 00:20:33.539 don't know what's happened here. I think Valentine's Day has really affected you and 301 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:38.170 I've got these these hearts. It just in my eye right now. Yeah, 302 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:42.130 I I'm glad we're doing it today because normally you be pushing on me, 303 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:45.569 telling me where you disagreed with me. This is a great day to 304 00:20:45.650 --> 00:20:48.970 do this. Will be a call out to anybody invited to do this podcast. 305 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:52.960 Do It on a on Valentine's Day with Dan. He's very agreeable. 306 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.559 Well, actually this is a call out to our listeners, though. I 307 00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:02.200 do fundamentally believe that part of a really good like director of Demandain, director 308 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.670 of events, whatever you are, to a CMO or a VP of marketing, 309 00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:10.109 or even a CMO to a CEO, part of your job is to 310 00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:12.470 point out blind spots. And weak spots so that you can be as good 311 00:21:12.470 --> 00:21:15.430 as possible. That's why, that's why you're hired in the first place, 312 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.700 and I think that that's probably why we had that relationship at the time, 313 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:22.180 because I wanted to make sure that you were always going to be as good 314 00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:25.460 as you are. No, I totally agree with that. Like, we 315 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.380 all make each other better, and the cool part about marketing is that it's 316 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:32.059 a lot of functional expertise. So, like there is no day that I 317 00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:34.250 will be better at Seo than the person that leads our SEO, and no 318 00:21:34.329 --> 00:21:38.410 day that I will be better at events than the day then the event person 319 00:21:38.490 --> 00:21:41.329 right, and so, you know, you really do have to count each 320 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:45.769 on each other as a team, which really makes it fun and you learn 321 00:21:45.890 --> 00:21:48.839 so much and I love it. I love it too. Last question for 322 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:55.640 you is I want to talk a little bit about making big strategic bets versus 323 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:57.799 trying to do everything. I feel like we've touched on at the entire time, 324 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:03.750 but what is your definitive statement and how you would just tell everyone to 325 00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:07.869 be thinking about that? Yeah, I mean it's like I call it peanut 326 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:11.829 butter marketing or peanut butter and things like. If you just have to do 327 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:15.710 everything. You're going to do everything okay, and you're not going to have 328 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:19.059 that differentiation in market. You have to choose some places where you're going to 329 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:23.740 go big. We are. We have here we've just rolled out like this 330 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:29.779 is our integrated marketing calendar. Here's the things we're going to do well and 331 00:22:30.529 --> 00:22:33.410 you know, anything that's not on those you know. I think we have 332 00:22:33.529 --> 00:22:37.609 to give pause in question to I was just inspired by another leader, Tony 333 00:22:37.609 --> 00:22:42.329 Nucomar, our chief technology officer. He said that if it's not related to 334 00:22:42.690 --> 00:22:47.000 his like we use a framework called V to mom here, similar to sales 335 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.039 force. I know others use like BSCM, but whatever, it is your 336 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.839 planning model. He said, if it's not related to one of the things 337 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.519 on that model, he is not taking that meeting period. And that's from 338 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.910 external, that's from internal, and I thought that was so powerful, like 339 00:23:00.029 --> 00:23:03.630 this is a man that is going to definitely achieve his goals and when I 340 00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:07.269 think about our marketing, I want to be able to commit to my marketing 341 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:11.190 team that we are going to hit those goals and I think by, you 342 00:23:11.309 --> 00:23:14.220 know, being ruthless in our prioritization, that way we can do that, 343 00:23:14.299 --> 00:23:17.500 but you have to be willing to place those big bets. Yeah, now, 344 00:23:17.619 --> 00:23:21.420 that's it's really well said. I I try to employ the twenty rule 345 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:26.059 as much as possible. Eighty percent big strategic leave twenty percent to be agile. 346 00:23:26.930 --> 00:23:30.769 Obviously doesn't work that way all the time, but it's a good rule 347 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:33.930 of thumb that I've leaned from its yeah, and I think even about like 348 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:37.450 the where we've built our relationship and the teams we've led together and like, 349 00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:41.359 when you think about the best moments, it's like you've done a big event 350 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.960 together as a team, not just leaving on the event persons shoulder, but 351 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.839 then you're like drinking afterwards and you're laughing together and whatever. That is like. 352 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.519 The best moments come for that that are from that, that are personal 353 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.990 to do and you know that. I think that's really special if you can 354 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:00.230 do that with a team. Yes, one hundred percent. I mean those 355 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:03.950 are the things that you look back on when jobs are all set and done 356 00:24:04.029 --> 00:24:08.230 and careers move on. It is you have those moments and those are stories 357 00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:11.019 you could never share with anybody but those people that went through it with you, 358 00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:17.259 and that's what makes these lifelong connections in this business love it. Yeah, 359 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:19.059 like what a way to bring it together about that day. We can 360 00:24:19.099 --> 00:24:22.900 a little bushy there, but I mean that's the the best part of marketing. 361 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:26.289 If we wanted to do it on our own, like sales, is 362 00:24:26.289 --> 00:24:30.890 awesome, but it is more of an individual contributor type of approach. Like 363 00:24:30.009 --> 00:24:33.529 marketings all about team and it's a it's fun to be doing with us, 364 00:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.769 with you today, and I know both of our teams are hiring. So 365 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.599 come join us in that if you're excited about that too. Know you know 366 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.920 honestly, that's a good sign off point. So tell our listeners a where 367 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.680 they can find you, just to follow you. I know you do a 368 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.720 quite a bit of thought leadership, and then, more importantly, how they 369 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.630 can join your team if they're looking. Yeah, I am inbound marketer on 370 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:03.430 twitter and facebook and instagram. You can find me at Maria Pergolino and Linkedin. 371 00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:08.380 I am the only Maria Pergolino in the world and it's pretty phonetically accurate. 372 00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:14.059 So, like, you can find me. It's first initial last name 373 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.539 at active campaign as well, and we have lots of roles open globally because 374 00:25:18.579 --> 00:25:22.410 we are at an organization that that has customers and people around the world, 375 00:25:22.490 --> 00:25:26.529 old and if you have questions about our product, I'm happy to help you 376 00:25:26.609 --> 00:25:29.849 as well, and then we'll be at, you know, a number of 377 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:32.769 upcoming marketing events and things like that. Stopped by our booths say hello, 378 00:25:33.849 --> 00:25:36.880 we'd love to talk to you. Amazing well, I can't thank you enough 379 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:38.599 for joining me today and I think, as you said, Love was in 380 00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:44.200 the air on February fourteen. So thank you so much. Thank you, 381 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.920 Dan and awesome. If you haven't subscribed yet, please subscribe to the serious 382 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.950 to hear the latest from leaders on the B tob grows show. Thanks for 383 00:25:52.069 --> 00:25:56.230 tuning in. Hey, there, this is James Carberry, founder of street 384 00:25:56.230 --> 00:26:00.470 fish media and one of the cohosts of this show. The last year and 385 00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:03.950 a half I've been working on my very first book. In the book I 386 00:26:03.150 --> 00:26:07.059 share the three part framework we used as the foundation for our growth. Here 387 00:26:07.099 --> 00:26:11.420 a sweetfish. Now there are lots of companies that ever. He'sed a bunch 388 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:14.779 of money and have grown insanely fast, and we featured a lot of them 389 00:26:14.819 --> 00:26:18.250 here on the show. We've decided to bootstrap our business, which usually equates 390 00:26:18.289 --> 00:26:22.569 to pretty slow growth, but using the strategy outlined in the book. We 391 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:26.289 are on pace to be one of inks fastest growing companies in two thousand and 392 00:26:26.289 --> 00:26:30.369 twenty. The book is called content based networking. How to instantly connect with 393 00:26:30.529 --> 00:26:33.519 anyone you want to know. If you're a fan of audiobooks like me, 394 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.559 you can find the book on audible or be like physical books. You can 395 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.319 also find it on Amazon. Just search content based networking or James Carberry, 396 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:47.309 car be a ARY, in audible or Amazon and it should pop right up. 397 -->