Transcript
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Yeah,
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welcome back to be, to be growth. I'm
dan Sanchez, Friends call me dan says,
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and I'm here with scott miller, who is
the former executive vice President of
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Thought leadership at Stephen Covey and
is currently a strategic advisor. Um
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I'm excited to talk to you about
thought leadership because he's been
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doing it for a long time for a well
known brand in the marketing and just
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business strategy space um with plenty
of years in as you know, as you've been
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uh joined me on this journey into
thought leadership. It's a topic that
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I've become increasingly passionate
about and I've been a student of and
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I'm just trying to interview more
people like scott to learn myself what
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it actually takes to make thought
leadership, what it actually takes to
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become a thought leader in position to
company as a thought leader. So thank
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you so much for joining me scott and
welcome to the show, Sanchez, thank you
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for the platform for the spotlight
honor to be here. Absolutely. And
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thanks for calling me Sanchez, that's
how I know your friend, but you teach
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it up pretty well. Right. So I was up
for me to either um ride or fail on
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that one. That's right, make it easy.
But I wanted to learn a little bit
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about like how you even got started
into this thing of thought leadership.
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There's as being in a company like this
for 25 years, probably a number of
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different paths you could have taken.
Um how did you land and specifically
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focusing on thought leadership for a
brand? Like franklin Covey. Sure, my
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career has been really quite deliberate.
As deliberate as I could create it. I'm
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from florida originally, I was a
associate of the Disney Development
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Company, which is the real estate
development arm of the walt Disney
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company for four years. I'm from
Orlando. They invited me to leave,
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which is the gracious way that Disney
fires you. So here I am a 26 year old
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unemployed catholic boy from Orlando.
Where do I move? Provo Utah, Right,
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where all the Catholics are? That's a
joke. If you've been to provo Utah. But
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I moved out here in 1996. I live in
Salt Lake City now with my wife and our
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three young sons and I joined what is
now the franklin Covey Company, which
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is by most measures the most prominent
biggest leadership development firm in
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the world, where a public company
offices in Gosh, nearly 50 plus
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countries. I started on the sales side,
right as a front line sales person
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carrying a bag, managing schools,
universities, community colleges,
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selling leadership productivity
strategy solutions. I then became the
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general manager of our division in
Chicago, where I got kind of dipped
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into the corporate world really for the
first time in my thirties, was always
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on the education side or the private
sector side or on the real estate side.
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With Disney grew that division to
become a large consulting practice for
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the firm, came back to the company and
became the company's first ever chief
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marketing officer, where I was that in
that role for eight years, which is
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twice the annual tenure of CMOS and
public companies proud to report. And
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then I disrupted myself. I moved out of
that role for a variety of reasons. We
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need some new, fresh younger talent,
including someone who had a SAS
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background as we became a SAS company.
And I took on the role for the first
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time in the company as the executive
vice president of thought leadership
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and I'm happy to explain what that
means more if you're interested. But as
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a thought leadership firm, I, arguably
one of the most impactful, influential
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in the world. I I built that division
for the last three years, stepped away
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from the company, retired after 25
years. And now I'm a advisor to the
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firm As a consultant still lead their
Thought Leadership Strategy, lead all
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of our books podcast, keynote speeches,
you name it, host myself, the world's
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largest weekly leadership podcast
called on Leadership with Scott Miller.
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And now I'm an advisor to the firm,
writing, speaking on my own and
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building my own brand as well. So I got
a few um messes and successes under my
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belt when it comes to Thought
Leadership. So happy to talk about the
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topic on any particular area you want
to go into. There's so many different
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questions that I could possibly in
angles to possibly go out though, I'd
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like to hear from you, especially as
you're starting to go at it. Um as a
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kind of like a solo agent now, um how
you feel becoming a thought leader from
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just starting as a professional and
actually aspiring and then actually
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taking clear steps to it. Like what
would those steps be if your
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professional, maybe a CMA or a Ceo of a
SAS company, you got your first round
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of funding your relatively unknown
other than for being the ceo of this
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company. But now you want to become a
thought leader. Like if you were an
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adviser to that person, what would the
steps that have to take B in order to
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be positioned as that? I'd assume you'd
never call yourself a thought leader,
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right? That's job number one. Right? As
soon as you call yourself an expert,
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you're not so do not read, do not refer
to yourself as a thought leader.
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Somebody else does fain humility but
accept it. But job # one never refer to
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yourself as a thought leader. Well, I'm
glad you have that position. I was
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gonna have to start winding down this
interview. If you were like, no, start
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calling yourself, just proclaim it.
Proclaim it, it's going to be as one of
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the world's most prominent thought
leaders. Let me weigh in on that, right?
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No. So let me level set for a moment
dan, because let me define what I think
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thought leadership is as a executive
Vice President of thought leadership
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and my title, I'd say kind of just
rudimentary thought leadership is the
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new public relations mean no more. Do
companies have legions of people in pr
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calling up news reporters in newsrooms?
There are no more reporters. There are
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no more newsrooms. They barely exist
anymore. They're not on the local
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business beat. Right? The, the Salt
Lake tribune or the, the Dallas,
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whatever it is, does not have someone
assigned to cover local product
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launches and local business. They don't
exist anymore for a variety of obvious
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reasons what has been disrupted in the
media business. So really public
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relations, although it still exists, I
think primarily for, you know,
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collateral damage control, reputation
repair, right? It's usually you hire a
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PR firm in the moment of a reputational
crisis. Thought leadership is the new
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pr it is the megaphone, if you will
where your announcing your expertise to
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those who care on a topic that matters
to both of you. So it's very carefully
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calibrating deliberately focusing on
who are the people out there that need
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to know and understand your expertise
on a topic. It might be leadership
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development, that might be some kind of
engineering, might be a medical
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invention right now, whatever it is,
who needs to understand and learn that
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you have expertise and what problem
they're trying to solve. That's thought
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leadership that may come in any number
of fashions. And I want to answer your
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question a second, but I just kind of a
level set. I think thought leadership
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is go ahead. Would you say that thought
leadership is synonymous with expertise
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or as extra? I've never been asked that
question, you know, for risk of not
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knowing your position, I'd say it's
fairly synonymous. I mean, how would
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you have thoughts on it? Who would care
what your thoughts are on a topic if
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you didn't have some expertise? So yeah,
I think you have to have a developed
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sense of report and acumen on a topic
for someone to care about it. I'm sure
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there's those that developed it over
time, right? And welcome to most
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entrepreneurs. But first and foremost,
I think to your point, you have to have
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a articulated point of view. You have
to bring to the table something new,
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something different, something valuable
that someone else will choose to read
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your book, listen to your podcast, read
your article, come to your speech book,
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you as a keynote speaker. So there's no
question you should have an articulated
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point of view, whether it be highly
experiential or well researched or just
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practice, because you've got the number
of reps that somebody else doesn't have.
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No, I have essentially the same same
viewpoint of what you just articulated.
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What I want to make sure is that some
people will take, like, we'll say that
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you can be an expert if it's synonymous,
then you don't need an articulated
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point of view, right? Because there's
lots of public intellectuals that like
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to critique all day because they know
the space intimately well, but they're
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not necessarily offering anything new.
And I'd usually say that a thought
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leader is somebody who's adding in his
prerequisite his expertise, right? But
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is then offering something new,
original, useful novel um in a way
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that's useful and I'm sure there is
space for both. To your question, what
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advice would I give you know, to an
entrepreneur, a founder I give there's
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different advice for different
scenarios, right? I mean, I would first
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want to really understand what
circumstance are they in Clayton?
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Christensen was a good friend of mine
passed a year ago, of course, the
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famous Harvard Professor, author and
innovative expert, right? I mean, he
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was obsessed with helping business
leaders understand what circumstance
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are their clients in circumstance based
marketing, we know it often known as
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the job to be done. Right? So my first
question to your client might be, what
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is your circumstance? You know? Are you
looking to grow your business? Are you
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looking to sell a book? Are you trying
to sell a book to build your keynote
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business? I think, you know, for
different reasons, different people
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have different strategies. Some people
do it because they want to build their
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own brand, right? They have they've
made all the money they want to make,
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they have helped their customers and
now they want to be seen as someone who
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is influential and build their brand.
Nothing wrong with that. If that's your
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strategy, I may or may not choose to
hire you. I'll ask you selfishly, since
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I get to meet with a lot of these ceos
and cmos and different people um as a
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podcast agency, part of the big reason
why people come to buy podcasting is
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because I thought leadership and I'm
usually the one kind of coaching them
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on podcasting. That's why I'm doing the
deep dive and learning more about it
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myself is to give them better answers.
And usually they're doing it for a mix
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of motivations, right? There is a
personal branding aspect to it because
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they know this startup that they're in
right now isn't the final destination
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of their life, right? They know by
using this they can build a little
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personal brand here that that might
sell, it might fail, but either way
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their personal brand gets to live live
beyond that. So there is a personal
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branding aspect to it that gets to live
beyond the startup. But addition to
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that, they do want to be, essentially,
it's somewhere between the mix of
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branding and demand gen by having that
leader that's out in front and being
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positioned as innovative. With thought
leadership marketing, they want to be
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seen and have their company known for
being innovative and whatever kind of
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industry or category you're either
designing a category that position
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themselves in a category. And they
usually want to use thought leadership
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as a means to do that. So it's, it's
somewhere between branding so that
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people like having their mind that this
company is innovative because they have
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an innovative leader and they want to
use it also to generate demand. So
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people are waking up the new ways of
looking at things everything you said
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amen to. I think the one point out to
build on is you've you've used the word
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leader. I think too often organizations
picked the wrong person to play the
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role of thought leader because you are
the Ceo or the founder does not
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correlate that you should be the
thought leader. Maybe it should be your
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chief scientist or your chief legal
counsel. It should be your chief
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innovation expert or your chief whoever.
Right? Not every time should that
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perhaps rarely should the founder of
the owner of the C. E. O. B. The
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thought leader. It depends on their
medium. No, they're there. If you're
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trying to host a podcast and you're
very shy, retiring personality and, and
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or you have a stutter or something like
that, it may not be the best venue for
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you. You might be a genius writer. You
might have several thought leaders. You
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might have, you know, the the leader
might be great at writing an article
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for ink magazine and maybe you pick
somebody else to have the personality
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for keynotes or for interviews. I do
think too often organizations select
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the wrong person for the wrong medium
and one person rarely has the talent to
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crush it in all mediums. So be
thoughtful about as a leader. Should
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you be the person that is the thought
leader or perhaps someone else might be
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better for your firm, depending upon
what your goal is. So that's
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interesting. What would you say? The
characteristics that are required in
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order to be seen as that person depends
on the industry depends on the medium.
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I mean, here's a good example, right? I
mean, there's lots of things I cannot
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do well fly a plane cook parent, you
know, but I have lots of poor skills,
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but I do have one skill of fairly
ubiquitous and I can write and I can
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speak and I can host and I can
interview. And so I'm actually probably
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a fairly good candidate to be
considered a thought leader on topics
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where I have expertise, right? It
should not be a thought leader on six
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sigma or on only in manufacturing. So I
just think it depends on the content. I
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mean, you might have a topic where
you're perhaps you're in the beauty
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industry, right? Perhaps your you own a
series of hair hair salons and maybe
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you are charismatic and outgoing and
you know the practice well, you know
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how to run the business side, as well
as the marketing side and the
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recruiting side and you wanna you wanna
school and perhaps you can speak to all
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of those in a variety of mediums and
modalities. I think you have to be self
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aware, you have to recognize am I the
best person? Again, that really has to
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do with your intent. If your intent is
to build your brand, you build your ego,
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then you might find yourself being the
thought leader in mediums that don't
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resonate well with people that are
searching for advice. I love this
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question dan. And that is um I think
effective thought leaders, effective
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leaders are more concerned with what is
right than being right, so take a step
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back and say who in this firm would be
the best thought leader provided they
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have, you know, the capability, the
knowledge, you can teach knowledge to a
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lot of people and they can innovate on
their own. I know a lot of people that
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serve as thought leaders of their firms
and you're thinking, yeah, you've got
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you have expertise but your ability to
persuade me to hire you or your ability
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to articulate it is not resonant with
me. So I turn you out, turn you off. No.
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I definitely say that the ability to
kind of create a personal brand around
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that expertise is probably one of those
things that you want to be able to
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build right. Because people not only
have to be able to hear and understand
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your expertise, they have to believe
that they have to trust you, so they
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have to be able to kind of like to some
degree resonate with you and who you
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are, maybe even your your background,
your backstory um to some degree. But
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do you think for a company that it
would be worth playing out as a single
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thought leader, do you think it's
better for a company to have multiple
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thought leaders? Maybe all your, maybe
you pitch all your employees and being
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that leaders to some degree? Yeah, I
think it depends. Uh I don't think
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everyone is a thought leader. I don't
think every employee should be a
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thought leader because you have people
that are off brand off message there
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perhaps saying things that are
confusing, contradictory. And so I
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think she'll be very deliberate around
how you curate thought leaders for what
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industry, here's a good client, here's
an example. I'm coaching a client in a
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pro bono fashion where the ceo of this
major hospital is going to create a
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podcast and I love this idea and I
think actually he would be and I told
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him, I think he actually will be a
better ceo host of this podcast for
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internal associates. That there are
thousands of employees in this health
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care network I think will be great at
building culture retention recruitment.
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I think he'll be the right person to be
the thought leader on how they're
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leading out. I don't think he's the
right thought leader for the industry
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per se, but I think maybe that maybe
the chief medical officer or somebody
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else that has a little more charisma,
um I don't actually think the ceo is a
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physician where the chief medical
officer is, and he might be a better
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better spokesperson for um mergers,
acquisitions, things like that, you
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know, and trials that kind of stuff. So,
again, circumstance, right. I mean, I
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know a lot of ceos that are very
charismatic, but quite frankly can't
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write a column weekly to save their
life, right? They don't have the
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discipline or the management or they're
just there are better with the spoken
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word than the written words. So it
comes down to self awareness and how to
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get a team that you trust, sit down and
say, what should our thought leadership
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strategy be? Where do our customers
find us? You know, it might just be
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that you should have a thought leader
that's out key noting at conferences,
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or perhaps you're writing a column in a,
an industry journal that doesn't take
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any charisma that just takes expertise
and good writing skills. And again, you
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know, match task to talent, match it to
the right industry. That's how
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ubiquitous answer. But I think it's a
valuable answer is one strategy does
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not fit every organization. Look at
franklin covey, you know, we produce
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intellectual property for a living, we
don't own anything we don't own and
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there's no inventory books and manuals,
but beyond that it's all personal
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property. But we find ourselves hosting
podcast and also being guests on
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podcast were writing books and
audiobooks and giving keynote speeches
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and writing columns and articles and
interviews and it's endless and we pick
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people that are expert in that medium.
You don't see our ceo writing any
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columns or giving any speeches or any
interviews, it's not his passion, he
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doesn't want to be in the limelight. He
probably should be a little more public
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in his brand, but quite frankly is more
of a producer director. Therefore we
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deliberately craft people that have
charisma and expertise and energy and
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competence and points of view and
deploy them very strategically. So tell
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me about that process that you take
internally. So you find people that are
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already have strong points of view,
expertise and our charismatic and can
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get in front of a microphone or on
stage or something. So you have that
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that's already pretty far along. What
do you do with them next? Well, there's
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more than just that too, right is we
make sure that they are on brand, that
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they have paid the reps, that they have,
you know, X 1000 of client
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implementations behind them and that
they have the ability to not just, you
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know, charm someone behind a microphone,
but they actually have strong
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leadership skills and they have
intuition and self awareness. They can
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write and they can speak. We make sure
that they have a good reputation, Right?
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I mean, I don't check their credit
score, but I sit down with the key
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people office, we talk about where
they've been, where they are, where we
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think we're going, right? I mean, what
is their own reputation outside the
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firm? Do you think they'll be around
for a while? It's part of that is very
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pragmatic. It's almost like getting
married. I mean, kind of investment
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you're gonna be making in them, you
better make sure its job and there's
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upside for them, Right? And I'll tell
you, I'll tell you probably the biggest
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criteria is your social media. I mean I
I'm the author of multiple books. You
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can see them behind me if you see a
video clip and I lead our book strategy
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and there's not a publisher in town
that will take you as an author. If you
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don't have 50,000 instagram followers
and 50,000 subscribers to your Youtube
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channel and 30,000 linked. I mean it's
just the new media and I coach people
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way too often that say I hate social
media. Well do you hate billboards? No
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to hate radio? No direct tv. No do you
hate Time magazine? No do you hate I'm
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like you gotta get over it because
social media is the way that you you
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project your thought leadership because
you can write an article for ink
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magazine every week as I do. But then
if you don't activate it through all of
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your social media, the only people are
going to read it are those people
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happened upon it on inc magazine's So
thought leaders also need to have a
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curated reputation and deliberate
strategy and cadence to make sure they
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are maximizing their social media
platforms. It's it's everything, it's
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the first and only question a publisher
really cares about now. So it sounds
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like by the time they're getting to you,
like The kind of already are thought
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leaders. I mean, if you would've got
50,000 Twitter followers and 30,000
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followers on linkedin and uh expertise
and established point of view and the
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background to get there, I'm like, I
mean you're kind of a micro thought
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leader into some point. Well, you might
be a micro thought leader and you might
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have 400 connections on linkedin. So if
I think you have promised on a variety
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of you know, criteria, I'm willing to
help you build your thought leadership,
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it's gonna are your social media is
going to take, you know, three years to
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build your linked incredibly with a
cadence where you've got a post two
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times a day or one time a day with
really thoughtful value, add things,
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not just pictures of your kids, which
sometimes is a good. Also you'd be
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surprised, I think, I mean, you know, I
I've been this business a long time and
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and you know, I'll post an income that
I think crushes it. I'll post a picture
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of my kids dancing, my dining room
table and we'll get, you know, triple
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the engagement, right? So I don't mean
that to be funny, but also need to be
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true. You also have to build a
connection with your audience. They
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want to know that you are real, that
you have struggles, that you're
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thinking through something that you're
relatable, that you also take vacations
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and that you you know, take pictures of
your sushi dinner. Do you believe
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people want to know that you're
relatable, you're trustworthy and that
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they like you outside of just your
expertise. It may sound trite, but you
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look at the best people that are
thought leaders that are also
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distributing through social media and
you see the whole person, not just
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there, there there's sterile or sterile
article people want to know, I mean,
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that's why Gary Vaynerchuk is
successful because he shared little
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bits of his story and in fact that he
likes this or that or has dreamed of
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the new york Jets, Right. I mean,
people buy into that kind of stuff
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because well, there's there's probably
a good amount of Jets fans out there
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and people who really die hard for
their underdog football teams, right? A
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lot of people can relate to that. I can,
I'm not a big sports fan, but like
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there's all kinds of little hooks you
put out there to connect with you on an
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emotional level. But ultimately he
still has to deliver on all the
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business and marketing an entrepreneur
ice. Right? So that's like 80% of the
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game in 2010 20% that, But what do you
do? So you got that person and your on
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boarding them? You said you spend like
three years like helping them get in a
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rhythm of creating it and most of that
they're just, they're doing themselves,
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you're just putting in front of them
being like, hey, this is what it's
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going to take, this is what you're
gonna have to execute, what other
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things are you putting in front of them
to do once they get signed on with you
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to become these internal thought
leaders.
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Yeah. So the point you mentioned that I
want to reiterate is we don't just take
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people that are, you know, good looking
and well spoken and turn them into
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thought leaders, right? I mean, these
people have serious reps of expertise
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on the topic in which we've decided to
make them the public face of the firm,
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but we do a lot of things that, you
know, it may seem superficial, but we
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do media training, right? We we we sit
them down with an outside media company
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and ask them hard questions about
reputational issues and what is the
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company point of view and find out
whether they know it or not. And we
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make sure they have it authentically,
we make sure that they know they're an
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ambassador for the firm on and off the
clock and that when they've had four
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martinis on a friday night at Bruce
chris they need to know that probably
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was too too many. And I mean that to be,
you know, metaphorical, but we will
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talk to them about the responsibility
they have for our organizational
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reputation. We make sure that if
they're incubating a new idea that they
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talk with us about it right? We don't
want them to go out and test it with
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clients because they have a fiduciary
responsibility that we need to remind
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them of. We hone their writing skills.
So we actually put them through some
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writing training because you know how
you write for Fortune magazine is
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different than how you might write
answers to a question for Good
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Housekeeping, which is different than
how you might right, you know, a blog
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post or a book for that matter. So we
actually we really helped to build
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people's writing skills and their
speaking skills, their interviewing
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skills. So we do a fair amount of
training like I said before a lot of
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social media training as well, you know,
I also do training on your own personal
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image, right, kind of clothes you wear
and you know your grooming habits and
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things like that. I mean my
responsibility to make sure that you
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are a good ambassador for the brand,
You also know where the company is
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headed at any given time. You can
articulate kind of where the company
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isn't just where we are now, but where
we are headed, what are we seeing in
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the market place that you are just a
thought leader on an island, but you
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can speak to other topics of the
organization, you might be a thought
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leader on organizational change, but
you should be adept at understanding
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where we're headed on productivity, on
building a culture of trust. What are
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the trends and employee retain
recruitment? Of retaining, retaining
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right? So retention rather. So we do a
fair amount of refreshing frequently on
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kind of, where is the overall firm?
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Gosh, what have I missed a lot? It's a
lot. What do you do for training? Like
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for example, you said writing skills,
does that mean they're they're
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submitting and you or somebody else on
the team is behind it and kind of like
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even appointing a different program
books you recommend? Or is it kind of
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like a pretty well established? They go
through this for the first three months
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or we just start critiquing everything
you write. Here's what I usually find
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people who tell you their a thought
leader aren't and people who tell you
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they can write can't, so there's
usually an inverse correlation in your
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confidence and your ability to speak it
and say it out loud and what's really
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true. So we do I mean, we we sit
everyone down in a different place and
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we have them right for us, right? It
might be a column on article or blog
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post, and we just talk about stuff like
smooth transitions, right? And what is
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the call to action? And how far deep
into the article? Is your idea embedded?
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And who are you writing this for? Is
this for health care practitioners? Or
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is it for hospitality professionals?
And you can't just keep the same idea
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and we appreciate the same column,
right, in the same article or the
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interview that matter. So yeah, we do.
We we have an editor, we do teach
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punctuation and grammar, but we also
expect that by the time you're a
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thought leader you're able to you know,
compose but you'd be surprised. You
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know there are some very credible,
articulate thought leaders that can
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crush An audience of 10,000 but they
can't put five sentences together or
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five paragraphs together to save their
life. So sometimes we have to protect
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them from themselves and we may choose
to have a ghostwriter right? Interview
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them and then turn that into some
article and they approve it and change
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it in such again, each person is in a
different situation. It's so helpful to
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identify a thought leader and then have
a really high courage conversation.
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Here's where we think your strengths
are, here's what I think your
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weaknesses are, here's where we need to
protect you from here. We're gonna
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burden or burgeon your skills and build
them up. That can only happen when they
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trust your intent and you trust that
they have humility and vulnerability
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and that they're willing to have you
grow them. There are some thought
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leaders that are quite frankly arrogant,
you know what? And I tend to steer
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clear from them and don't give them a
whole lot of platform because they're
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not moving with the times, they're not
adapting them going, their skills.
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Thought leadership is an iterative
process. I know a lot of experts that I
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have had on my podcast and we have not
aired the tape because they literally
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did not realize they gave me a 12
minute answer to a question, are you
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out of your mind? You gave me? I mean
literally a 12 minute answer and so
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those that are open to the training and
writing and speaking and interviewing
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man, I'm all in on hey everybody Logan
with sweet fish here. If you're a
400
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regular listener of GDP growth, you
know that I'm one of the co host of the
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show, but you may not know that. I also
head up the sales team here at Sweet
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Fish. So for those of you in sales or
sales ops, I wanted to take a second to
403
00:27:10.410 --> 00:27:14.570
share something that's made us insanely
more efficient lately. Our team has
404
00:27:14.570 --> 00:27:18.640
been using lead I. Q. For the past few
months and what used to take us four
405
00:27:18.650 --> 00:27:24.490
hours gathering contact data. Now takes
us only one where 75% more efficient
406
00:27:24.500 --> 00:27:28.350
were able to move faster with outbound
prospecting and organizing our
407
00:27:28.350 --> 00:27:33.170
campaigns is so much easier than before.
I'd highly suggest you guys check out
408
00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:39.640
lead EQ as well. You can check them out
at least I Q dot com. That's L E A D I
409
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:47.330
Q dot com. All right, let's get back to
the show, man. It sounds like a lot of
410
00:27:47.330 --> 00:27:50.290
work, but at the same time it's like
well, I mean you're taking people that
411
00:27:50.290 --> 00:27:56.120
are probably 60 70% of the way there
and Polishing up to get to 100%. Which
412
00:27:56.120 --> 00:28:00.420
somebody operating at 100% is going to
be operating pretty effectively. How
413
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:07.690
many people do you have a better These
kinds of thought leaders at 2043, 23.
414
00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:11.180
So on any given day I've got like a big
like an air traffic controller right on
415
00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:14.960
the team. And we're helping them with
their social media where many of them
416
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.910
have weekly columns at any given time.
There is, you know, eight or 10 media
417
00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:23.100
inquiries coming in a day and some of
them aren't trained to be spokespersons
418
00:28:23.100 --> 00:28:26.710
for the company because there might be
a not nefarious but there might be a
419
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:31.670
journalist who has an angle and he or
she. And so we make sure that in some
420
00:28:31.670 --> 00:28:35.040
cases we might have our director of
public relations on the phone with them.
421
00:28:35.050 --> 00:28:38.560
We might just simply say, you know what
that person's expertise on this topic
422
00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:42.770
Isn't what you need when you talk to
this person. So we have 23 and any
423
00:28:42.770 --> 00:28:46.530
given time, we have probably four or
five that are kind of coming up in the
424
00:28:46.530 --> 00:28:51.960
ranks. You've not seen them yet, but
we're helping them perfect. They're not
425
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.970
thought leadership per se because
they've got articulated expertise on
426
00:28:55.970 --> 00:28:59.420
the topic, but helping make sure that
when we do launch them, that they're
427
00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:03.470
never in over their head, right, that
there safely ensconced. If you will, we
428
00:29:03.470 --> 00:29:06.070
don't try to control the message. I
don't need it to be like the White
429
00:29:06.070 --> 00:29:09.310
House communications firm, but we want
to make sure that, you know, we don't
430
00:29:09.310 --> 00:29:13.430
lead people into a path that they could
get over their heads in. It makes sense
431
00:29:13.430 --> 00:29:16.090
that you kind of get boundaries. It's
like, hey, here's some boundaries play
432
00:29:16.090 --> 00:29:20.560
within those, right? There, probably
fairly generous boundaries. So 23
433
00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:23.830
people is a lot to be doing this kind
of work with. Have you started, were
434
00:29:23.830 --> 00:29:29.670
you like number one? No, but I was so
it's interesting you ask that because
435
00:29:29.670 --> 00:29:34.710
my job was the Executive Vice President
of Thought leadership, right? A a you
436
00:29:34.710 --> 00:29:39.290
know, named officer in a public company.
So my job was to identify, grow and
437
00:29:39.290 --> 00:29:42.250
build people, you know, and I might
have actually, there are some cases
438
00:29:42.250 --> 00:29:45.760
where I plucked a person out of the
audience and said, gosh, I think you've
439
00:29:45.760 --> 00:29:50.770
got great talent and you know, you're
so in demand with clients on this topic,
440
00:29:50.780 --> 00:29:53.880
we're thinking of writing a book and
this is the book, were writing on,
441
00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:57.040
Would you be interested here all the
things you'll have to do and how do you
442
00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:00.050
feel about this? And you're willing to
pay the price to become an expert on
443
00:30:00.050 --> 00:30:04.550
this topic? Your, you know, more than a
novice, but so we'll build them up. So
444
00:30:04.550 --> 00:30:07.950
I had four or five people that were
quite significant already.
445
00:30:09.040 --> 00:30:11.610
People that sold, you know, a million
or two million copies of their book
446
00:30:11.610 --> 00:30:15.400
inside the firm. And then I started
writing myself and podcasting and
447
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:20.100
speaking. And maybe once along the way,
someone referred to me as a thought
448
00:30:20.100 --> 00:30:23.420
leader, you will never hear those words
come out of my mouth. I'm an author and
449
00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:28.250
I'm a speaker and I have expertise on
topics, I'm not afraid to say, you know,
450
00:30:28.260 --> 00:30:32.760
I have expertise on this because I know
I do have expertise on how to launch a
451
00:30:32.760 --> 00:30:37.310
book. I have expertise on how to build
communities of clients inside
452
00:30:37.310 --> 00:30:41.460
organizations, to buy your products and
things. So along the way, I kind of
453
00:30:42.140 --> 00:30:45.790
moved from being producer and director
to also being kind of actor on the
454
00:30:45.790 --> 00:30:51.410
stage and I'm in I'm in half the time
I'm a thought leader as described by
455
00:30:51.410 --> 00:30:55.180
others, and the other half the time I'm
promoting and raising other thought
456
00:30:55.180 --> 00:30:58.780
leaders. But I think it's good because
it allows me to understand the
457
00:30:58.780 --> 00:31:02.090
challenges of thought leader plays, and
I can say to people, you know what guys,
458
00:31:02.090 --> 00:31:04.990
you gotta follow what I'm doing and you
may not like what I'm doing, but learn
459
00:31:04.990 --> 00:31:08.870
from it, take what's good leave, what's
bad and create your own, your own
460
00:31:08.870 --> 00:31:12.210
strategy around it. That works for you
and for the firm, There's nothing wrong
461
00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:14.790
with being a thought leader. There's
nothing wrong to aspire to be a thought
462
00:31:14.790 --> 00:31:18.860
later. Take the steps to be one. You
just can never call yourself one right?
463
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:24.250
A men beautifully said. And that's
that's the first and the second rule of
464
00:31:24.250 --> 00:31:27.230
thought leadership, Right? And I would
never be afraid to talk about thought
465
00:31:27.230 --> 00:31:30.850
leadership. I know there's been
parodies about it and such and I think
466
00:31:30.850 --> 00:31:32.960
they might even been one on saturday
night live or some like that. That's
467
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.600
totally fine. But there's no question
thought leadership is a space that I
468
00:31:36.600 --> 00:31:41.090
think any organization, I don't care if
you're a mechanic, if you're a dentist,
469
00:31:41.100 --> 00:31:45.000
if you want a carpet business. I mean,
there is no reason why, you know, as
470
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.930
the owner of a carpet business. If you
can write, you couldn't have a weekly
471
00:31:47.930 --> 00:31:51.800
blog that goes onto your linkedin
account, right? Or goes to your company
472
00:31:51.800 --> 00:31:57.690
website. Every organization could and
should have a thought leadership
473
00:31:57.690 --> 00:32:01.870
strategy because that's kind of in many
ways the new marketing, new advertising,
474
00:32:01.870 --> 00:32:07.020
not just the new pr so the way you guys
are implementing thought leadership is
475
00:32:07.020 --> 00:32:10.540
different from most of the guests that
I'm going to be talking to have the
476
00:32:10.550 --> 00:32:14.410
title like thought leadership in their
their title, right? Usually their pr
477
00:32:14.410 --> 00:32:17.710
bent maybe journalists and background.
And they're helping the company come up
478
00:32:17.710 --> 00:32:20.610
with thought leadership content.
They're talking to the subject matter
479
00:32:20.610 --> 00:32:23.450
experts and then crafting it into
content. It's the usual thought
480
00:32:23.450 --> 00:32:26.440
leadership role. But what you guys are
doing is a whole step ahead and that
481
00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:31.510
you're developing a 23 is a big team of
thought leaders. Um so I'm kind of
482
00:32:31.510 --> 00:32:35.300
curious about the administration of
this kind of a program. Are they all
483
00:32:35.300 --> 00:32:39.460
these people on on staff, are they like
full time salaried or are they like
484
00:32:40.040 --> 00:32:44.080
ambassadors of some kind where they're
like, so there may be there all paid
485
00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:45.420
differently, maybe they all have
different.
486
00:32:46.840 --> 00:32:49.940
Yeah, they're all different. Right?
Some are executive officers and the
487
00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:53.540
firm, here's a good example. Our Chief
people Officer is a man named Todd
488
00:32:53.540 --> 00:32:57.260
Davis. He's the Chief People Officer,
Franklin Covey, this is an executive
489
00:32:57.260 --> 00:33:02.810
role with a large group and uh he is a
two time Wall Street Journal
490
00:33:02.810 --> 00:33:06.300
bestselling author. He gives keynotes
around the world. He does interviews
491
00:33:06.300 --> 00:33:10.340
for us. He writes responses to
journalists all the time, wanting to
492
00:33:10.340 --> 00:33:14.280
have a quote from him in their article,
whatever it is, he's on salary. He
493
00:33:14.280 --> 00:33:18.530
makes no money off any of his thought
leadership. Right? He's on salary as an
494
00:33:18.530 --> 00:33:22.000
executive officer. We have people who
are independent contractors that like
495
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.510
for example, Stephen M. R. Covey,
Doctor Covey's oldest son. He wrote the
496
00:33:25.510 --> 00:33:30.060
book The Speed of Trust, an amazing
book. He's considered by most to be the
497
00:33:30.060 --> 00:33:34.420
most preeminent Nayman organizational
trust worldwide. He's actually a
498
00:33:34.420 --> 00:33:38.600
contractor for us. We have full time
consultants. We have some sales people
499
00:33:38.610 --> 00:33:42.090
who on the side are kind of working
their way to become an author and
500
00:33:42.090 --> 00:33:45.590
they're writing blogs and they're kind
of building their brand. Everyone's at
501
00:33:45.590 --> 00:33:50.670
a different level in terms of impact,
competence, compensation is honestly
502
00:33:50.670 --> 00:33:54.630
all different. We have some outside
publicist we hire, we have an outside
503
00:33:54.630 --> 00:34:00.080
digital distribution company that helps
us to land and maintain columns. And we
504
00:34:00.080 --> 00:34:03.340
have a team of three or four people
inside that help us produce podcast and
505
00:34:03.340 --> 00:34:07.730
activate columns and things. So not a
large, not a huge team, about three or
506
00:34:07.730 --> 00:34:12.469
four people that work to envision
execute the strategies that I lied. But
507
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:17.770
uh, it's a machine that I think is uh,
second to none in our industry. I have
508
00:34:17.770 --> 00:34:21.330
not been one like quite like that. I
think Dave Ramsey would probably like
509
00:34:21.330 --> 00:34:25.590
he's got a number of personalities that
are pumping out content but not 23, but
510
00:34:25.590 --> 00:34:28.600
he's got quite a few. Now. I notice
he's trying to diversify away from his
511
00:34:28.600 --> 00:34:32.360
own personal brand. Right? That's kind
of been interested and I think he's
512
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:37.090
lost a few recently too. I think he's
lost a few as well. I know Dave what is
513
00:34:37.100 --> 00:34:39.840
in the nature of the beast to help
people build their own platforms
514
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.820
naturally. Some of them are going to
want to go off and chase it. And I
515
00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:49.179
actually think that's, that's not bad.
That's yeah, I know especially well
516
00:34:49.190 --> 00:34:53.250
people are going to be talking about
you. Right? That's right. Look at me. I
517
00:34:53.250 --> 00:34:56.330
mean, I'm the perfect example, right? I
mean I left the firm and I'm the
518
00:34:56.330 --> 00:35:00.650
biggest evangelist out there for the
firm on more podcasts than anybody and
519
00:35:00.650 --> 00:35:04.910
I'm a huge ambassador for the firm.
You're exactly who's, who's responsible
520
00:35:04.910 --> 00:35:09.780
for finding the new people. Do you just
have like people raising their hands
521
00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:12.500
being like, hey, like I've noticed
you're doing this thing. Can I get in
522
00:35:12.500 --> 00:35:15.290
on that? Do you have like a number of
those? Just pick from them or do you go
523
00:35:15.290 --> 00:35:18.190
find them or is it kind of a
combination of both? Yeah, It's
524
00:35:18.190 --> 00:35:22.180
controversial. Right. I mean, I think a
lot of people probably think scott has
525
00:35:22.180 --> 00:35:26.440
his favorites and I hope that's not
true. But you know, we have a grid that
526
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:31.590
we look at all kinds of criteria and I
have my eye on someone and I always
527
00:35:31.590 --> 00:35:35.840
consult with the ceo of the company,
the chief people officer, the DP
528
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:39.380
consulting and four or five people talk
about their reputation, their
529
00:35:39.380 --> 00:35:43.250
competence of a team player. Do you
think they're here for the long term?
530
00:35:43.340 --> 00:35:46.500
Do we think they have expertise? Are
they open to feedback? Are they thunder
531
00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:50.080
work with? Like, do you enjoy working
with, Are they humble? Are they
532
00:35:50.080 --> 00:35:55.240
grateful? Are they open to learning? So
as I'm raising someone up, it's usually
533
00:35:55.240 --> 00:35:59.230
because I've had a series of four or
five conversations with three or four
534
00:35:59.230 --> 00:36:02.690
executives from different points of
view of different backgrounds of
535
00:36:02.690 --> 00:36:05.780
different races. Right? Just to kind of
make sure that we have different age
536
00:36:05.780 --> 00:36:10.040
groups. I'm not just, I'm not anointing
people on my own by any stretch. No,
537
00:36:10.040 --> 00:36:13.080
it's definitely a team effort, but it's
sounds like it's fairly robust and
538
00:36:13.080 --> 00:36:17.270
you're trying to get multiple people on
board with making the decision beyond
539
00:36:17.270 --> 00:36:22.860
yourself, which at a company that size
is smart, especially as a, as a public
540
00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:25.530
company. Right? Because quite frankly,
the majority of our thought leaders for
541
00:36:25.530 --> 00:36:29.980
decades were, you know, caucasian males
from Utah's where our company is based
542
00:36:29.980 --> 00:36:33.940
and that worked for us for, you know,
several decades. And of course it's not
543
00:36:33.940 --> 00:36:37.850
anymore. So we have a very diverse
group of thought leaders that are
544
00:36:37.850 --> 00:36:41.650
coming up in the firm, actually more
diverse than our our members of our
545
00:36:41.650 --> 00:36:45.070
board of directors. And even our
executives were quite proud of the
546
00:36:45.070 --> 00:36:48.900
level of diversity, both in age and
gender and experience and background,
547
00:36:48.910 --> 00:36:53.210
ethnicity, sexual orientation. Right?
In terms of making sure that our
548
00:36:53.220 --> 00:36:57.430
thought leadership quite frankly, looks
more like our customer base than it
549
00:36:57.430 --> 00:37:01.180
does our employee base right now. How
do you know if it's successful, You got
550
00:37:01.180 --> 00:37:06.290
23 people on this program. How do you
know if it's working? Yeah, different
551
00:37:06.290 --> 00:37:10.680
criteria for different mediums and
channels. Here's a good example. Um If
552
00:37:10.680 --> 00:37:15.070
I write a new book six months from now
and we pitch when you invite me back on,
553
00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:19.280
it's working. If you don't invite me
back on, it's not working, we might
554
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:24.430
sell 100,000 books on a particular
topic. But if that's not driving
555
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:29.290
clients to be interested in purchasing
the solution to adopt in their program,
556
00:37:29.290 --> 00:37:32.940
the organization, all we've done is
sold a bunch of books. You know if we
557
00:37:32.940 --> 00:37:38.260
book a keynote speech at the conference
And they pay us $30,000 for that. But
558
00:37:38.270 --> 00:37:42.100
you know the phone doesn't ring with 12
clients wanting to book that keynote
559
00:37:42.110 --> 00:37:46.410
and then that person doesn't drive
ongoing business. It's not working. If
560
00:37:46.410 --> 00:37:51.370
we write a column and fortune magazine
for a series of five issues and that
561
00:37:51.370 --> 00:37:55.530
person's social media doesn't grow.
It's not working. So we have lots of
562
00:37:55.530 --> 00:38:02.710
measures and tests to know are you just
building likes and impressions or are
563
00:38:02.710 --> 00:38:07.510
you actually building influence where
people know to come to you when they
564
00:38:07.510 --> 00:38:09.950
want to solve that problem? Because
there's lots of times when someone's
565
00:38:09.950 --> 00:38:14.520
not ready yet, right? You're just,
you're building credibility with them
566
00:38:14.530 --> 00:38:18.270
that when they are ready they will come
to you. There's some times when you
567
00:38:18.270 --> 00:38:23.430
might have a ceo of a hospitality
company that later becomes the ceo of
568
00:38:23.430 --> 00:38:28.340
an airline and now she is thinking
about you and says, I'm gonna call up
569
00:38:28.340 --> 00:38:31.160
dan because I've been, I've been loving
dams topic and dan might be able to
570
00:38:31.160 --> 00:38:36.690
refer me to someone in our firm or even
outside our firm. Sometimes a long
571
00:38:36.690 --> 00:38:39.890
burning you're not gonna become a
thought leader and have a thought
572
00:38:39.890 --> 00:38:43.950
leadership strategy and see your
qualified leads exponentially in
573
00:38:43.950 --> 00:38:47.510
salesforce dot com. That ain't gonna
happen. Thought leadership is a
574
00:38:47.510 --> 00:38:52.290
committed long term strategy where
you're building reputational
575
00:38:52.290 --> 00:38:56.360
credibility and a point of view that
someone will come to you when they are
576
00:38:56.360 --> 00:39:01.320
ready. You thought leadership does not
tip A decision like you know a
577
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:05.840
marketing campaign or advertising
campaign, its overall kind of
578
00:39:05.850 --> 00:39:10.920
infrastructure that helps you shape the
reputational credibility of your brand.
579
00:39:10.930 --> 00:39:14.480
So how do you monitor all that though?
Because it's got to be a lot of work if
580
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:18.000
you got 23 people that's and they're
all doing a variety of activities. I'm
581
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:21.690
like do you have them self report in
what they've gotten or what has
582
00:39:21.690 --> 00:39:24.590
happened or do you have maybe someone
underneath you that's kind of like
583
00:39:24.590 --> 00:39:30.230
keeping tabs with everybody to make
sure things are working a variety of a
584
00:39:30.230 --> 00:39:33.910
variety. I would be fraudulent if I
said we took and tie every single you
585
00:39:33.910 --> 00:39:37.950
know post and what the outcome is. But
we we we have some good processes in
586
00:39:37.950 --> 00:39:43.080
place that are very predictive of of uh
success. We know he placed someone at a
587
00:39:43.080 --> 00:39:48.320
certain conference or a certain An
event or a certain publication or on a
588
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.740
certain podcast or TV program. We
generally know what that will do and
589
00:39:51.740 --> 00:39:55.440
sometimes you get it wrong, I mean you
could go on to the today show and not
590
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:00.830
sell four books. You could go on Donald
Miller's podcast and sell 8000 books.
591
00:40:00.910 --> 00:40:04.250
It's just it's all kind of situational.
You naturally sometimes you get it
592
00:40:04.250 --> 00:40:09.240
right. Sometimes you don't, we have
pretty good measures in place to uh
593
00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:14.920
make educated decisions on. Was that a
good investment? Sometimes they're not,
594
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:18.510
sometimes they are quite frankly dan,
some of its instinctive gut, right.
595
00:40:18.510 --> 00:40:22.710
Some of it is, let's just put this
person, let's give them a column and
596
00:40:22.710 --> 00:40:26.510
Forbes and let's just make sure it
happens every week for 52 weeks. Let's
597
00:40:26.510 --> 00:40:30.000
watch their social media, let's watch
their lead flow. We check in every
598
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:33.560
three or four weeks with them and we
know if it's working or not based on,
599
00:40:33.560 --> 00:40:38.430
you know how many inquiries they got.
Forbes might not be the best place for
600
00:40:38.430 --> 00:40:42.860
a column, unemployed retention. It
might be a great place for column on
601
00:40:42.870 --> 00:40:48.190
building sales pipeline or converting
your pipeline to revenue. So we, we we
602
00:40:48.190 --> 00:40:52.850
we we are increasingly more adept at
knowing who, what, when and where, how
603
00:40:52.850 --> 00:40:57.940
do you make sure ambassador actually
champions the company? Like they all
604
00:40:57.940 --> 00:41:01.980
have their individual things that there
a thought leader on. How do you, how do
605
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:05.430
you, how do you tie the company back
into each one of their own particulars?
606
00:41:05.810 --> 00:41:10.640
Her particular expertise is like, is
there a unifying theme between all 23
607
00:41:11.010 --> 00:41:13.610
or do you have standards you give to
all of them being like, hey, you have
608
00:41:13.610 --> 00:41:18.450
to do this regularly, do these things
regularly, for example, and sweet fish.
609
00:41:18.450 --> 00:41:22.040
We have, we don't have thought leaders
are really like more brand evangelists,
610
00:41:22.050 --> 00:41:26.720
but like all of our employees and maybe
this maybe may not be a good idea, but
611
00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:29.560
they have to change their byline to
kind of have the company position
612
00:41:29.560 --> 00:41:32.020
statement and the byline. So that is
there commenting and stuff. We're
613
00:41:32.020 --> 00:41:35.590
putting a lot of resources in their own
posts and stuff. Um you know, our our
614
00:41:35.590 --> 00:41:39.460
positioning statement is always there.
We do podcasts or beauty brands so that,
615
00:41:39.470 --> 00:41:42.140
you know, that's kind of like an ad
that's just floating out there. We're
616
00:41:42.140 --> 00:41:46.500
gonna linked in. We could probably do a
better job at that. But these are
617
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:50.390
mature, sophisticated people. We, we
don't have to monitor them, we don't
618
00:41:50.390 --> 00:41:53.580
police them at all. We know that
they're going to be great ambassadors
619
00:41:53.580 --> 00:41:57.280
for our brain. We also know that, you
know, they also have a brand on their
620
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:01.310
own and that you know, they may not
always be an employee of Franklin Covey.
621
00:42:01.310 --> 00:42:04.270
We recognize there's some value in it
for them as well. They're doing a lot
622
00:42:04.270 --> 00:42:07.940
of work to build our brand and they
ought to build their own as well. Not
623
00:42:07.940 --> 00:42:11.580
at the expense of our firm, but I just
philosophically believe that I can
624
00:42:11.580 --> 00:42:15.870
build my brand and also Bill, Franklin
Covey is not the expense of franklin
625
00:42:15.870 --> 00:42:19.920
Covey write the books that I've written.
Don't come at the expense of franklin
626
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.970
Covey. So I just generally think we
pick people who have an abundance
627
00:42:22.970 --> 00:42:27.670
mentality that their mindset is, they
are an ambassador for franklin Covey
628
00:42:27.680 --> 00:42:33.350
and I recognize that they also have a
brand of their own and they can
629
00:42:33.350 --> 00:42:37.070
peacefully coexist with us and
interviews and columns and podcasts and
630
00:42:37.070 --> 00:42:42.670
speeches. We do obviously have very
strict rules about certain things like
631
00:42:42.670 --> 00:42:48.740
so for example, you know, you can't go
out and give a speech for us and market
632
00:42:48.740 --> 00:42:52.750
or pitch books that you wrote outside
of our firm. That's not ethical, right?
633
00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:57.200
You can't take one of our clients and
an offline pitch one of your products.
634
00:42:57.200 --> 00:43:00.660
If you again are a contractor, it's not
ethical. And you know, there's been a
635
00:43:00.660 --> 00:43:04.380
couple incursions along the way, but
the vast majority of people are highly
636
00:43:04.380 --> 00:43:09.100
ethical, implicitly trustworthy. And it
really isn't even a question for us. So
637
00:43:09.110 --> 00:43:12.640
mainly you have like a baseline
standard of just like business ethics
638
00:43:12.640 --> 00:43:17.300
that are kind of like Plane one on one
like base level. But then you like,
639
00:43:17.310 --> 00:43:22.120
we're going to help you. We know it'll
come back to us. That's exactly right.
640
00:43:22.120 --> 00:43:26.890
I mean, these are, these are people
that we hopefully trust implicitly and
641
00:43:26.890 --> 00:43:28.950
I don't want to jeopardize their
relationship, right. These people are
642
00:43:28.950 --> 00:43:32.430
smart, self governing people. So
honestly, we have to do very little
643
00:43:32.430 --> 00:43:36.850
policing of that. I can think of maybe
two incursions and I've been in the
644
00:43:36.850 --> 00:43:41.300
firm 25 years and they both still work
for us were perhaps a little more
645
00:43:41.300 --> 00:43:47.610
cautious. Um, and you know, generally
our Ceo has a methodology of assume
646
00:43:47.620 --> 00:43:52.720
good intent and that was what permeates
our culture here. What services do you
647
00:43:52.720 --> 00:43:56.300
provide for them? So they're doing a
lot of work already. They got social
648
00:43:56.300 --> 00:43:59.580
media kind of going there doing a lot
of their own work. But what what are
649
00:43:59.580 --> 00:44:03.820
you doing to help them build their
brands? Yeah, So we provide a global
650
00:44:03.820 --> 00:44:08.720
platform. I mean we provide, you know,
people who can help to build their
651
00:44:08.730 --> 00:44:13.750
social following. We have people that
edit their columns and articles. We
652
00:44:13.750 --> 00:44:18.600
have a podcast that I host. It goes to
eight million people every week. So if
653
00:44:18.600 --> 00:44:21.580
one of our thought leaders earns the
right to get on our podcast, I mean
654
00:44:21.590 --> 00:44:25.810
Matthew McConaughey was two weeks ago,
right, and next week was going to be
655
00:44:25.810 --> 00:44:30.490
Bill Gates. I'm not sure it's going to
be right now. He's having a rough row
656
00:44:30.490 --> 00:44:34.060
right now. But you know, for one of our
thought leaders to have a chance to
657
00:44:34.060 --> 00:44:38.870
earn our a spot on our podcast is a big
deal for them. I actually host a
658
00:44:38.870 --> 00:44:44.130
franklin Covey book Club for a new
start up called book Club dot com,
659
00:44:44.130 --> 00:44:47.710
launching in june and so they're gonna
get a chance to actually be a guest on
660
00:44:47.710 --> 00:44:52.370
Franklin Covey's book Club. So we have
a massive platform where we get to
661
00:44:52.370 --> 00:44:56.720
shine our spotlight onto them. So
there's a significant amount of
662
00:44:57.190 --> 00:45:01.840
gasoline that we put into their tank.
But at the end of the day, they have to
663
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:05.720
turn the engine on and they have to
keep the keep it gas because it's an
664
00:45:05.720 --> 00:45:09.980
issue. There are some people that don't
want to pay the price and they, and
665
00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:14.820
they look at me as a model and I say,
yeah, well I spent six hours on social
666
00:45:14.820 --> 00:45:19.320
media yesterday and I also worked six
hours and I also wrote for four hours.
667
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.730
So yeah, I had a long day yesterday.
Right? And, and so you got to put the
668
00:45:22.730 --> 00:45:28.670
price in and if someone is not going to
put the price in, then um, they get 88
669
00:45:28.680 --> 00:45:34.000
octane gas, not 93 octane gas. I'll
tell them I'm very clear. I mean you're
670
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:37.400
not putting the work in so I'm putting
the team back off. You I have a lot of
671
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.160
hikers. I don't have a lot. No. And
kind of like all or nothing. Or do you
672
00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:45.390
have like different stages? Right.
You're like, because a brand like yours
673
00:45:45.390 --> 00:45:48.920
has access different levels of access
to different things. You got websites,
674
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:53.450
you got podcasts, you got speaking
deals. You know, I mean kind of like
675
00:45:53.450 --> 00:45:57.120
the Dave Ramsey who gets it. I don't
know what the size of his show is, but
676
00:45:57.120 --> 00:46:00.630
like not everybody speaking with him on
his prime time, some of them are on
677
00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:04.700
different things there on podcasts are
lower down. Yeah, I think he has the
678
00:46:04.700 --> 00:46:08.550
second largest radio program in the
world that rush Limbaugh has passed I
679
00:46:08.550 --> 00:46:14.440
think Hannity was two and Dave Ramsey
was three But there's no question if
680
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:20.220
someone is crushing it on their end,
they're getting 93% octane gas from
681
00:46:20.220 --> 00:46:20.800
Scott
682
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:24.570
Question it, meaning they're writing
their reading, they're taking
683
00:46:24.570 --> 00:46:30.480
interviews, their podcasting, they're
paying the price to not just build
684
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:34.990
their social media but respond right
and engage people and give people value
685
00:46:35.380 --> 00:46:39.130
With coaching and answers. Takes a lot
of work. This is not for the this is
686
00:46:39.130 --> 00:46:44.130
not a full time job for anyone in our
company is for me as the administrator.
687
00:46:44.140 --> 00:46:48.780
But you know these people all have
mostly have day jobs. These people have
688
00:46:48.790 --> 00:46:55.530
you know 50 hour a week jobs plus
they're writing plus they're doing all
689
00:46:55.530 --> 00:46:58.240
of this, right? This takes a lot. This
is not for the weak of heart. Let me
690
00:46:58.240 --> 00:47:02.460
tell you, not for the lazy, nope.
Sometimes you got to be able to work
691
00:47:02.470 --> 00:47:07.040
really hard in order to get out there.
What's that quote, successful people
692
00:47:07.040 --> 00:47:11.370
are merely those who are willing to do
what unsuccessful people weren't I
693
00:47:11.370 --> 00:47:15.570
slaughtered that. But there's so much
wisdom in that right there. That's why
694
00:47:15.570 --> 00:47:19.020
it's usually see tiredness is a is a
good thing, right? Taking tired Good.
695
00:47:19.030 --> 00:47:24.060
That's good because the people who run
the world are tired, right? Isn't that
696
00:47:24.060 --> 00:47:28.490
true? This has been fantastic scott. If
there's anything left, like if there's
697
00:47:28.490 --> 00:47:31.990
anything our audience has heard after
all these questions and talking about
698
00:47:31.990 --> 00:47:35.470
this program, what what question
haven't I asked? That would be good for
699
00:47:35.470 --> 00:47:39.270
them to know? Yeah. You may have asked
this and I may have talked over you,
700
00:47:39.270 --> 00:47:42.800
but I think, you know, to be a great
thought leader, your ticket to the game
701
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.210
is obviously having a articulated
702
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:50.280
point of view that's grounded in
expertise, research reps and you're
703
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:54.410
constantly innovating, disrupting
yourself, giving your audience new
704
00:47:54.410 --> 00:48:00.360
value, new experiences. You're also
insatiably curious and open to coaching.
705
00:48:00.370 --> 00:48:03.270
You're willing to get some writing
coaching, you're willing to get some
706
00:48:03.270 --> 00:48:08.910
platform speaking skill coaching.
You're willing to take feedback from
707
00:48:08.910 --> 00:48:12.260
people who have your best interests at
heart. At some point, you get to a
708
00:48:12.260 --> 00:48:15.730
level where you're drowning and
feedback. I mean, look at me, I'm not I
709
00:48:15.730 --> 00:48:19.060
know celebrity, but there are blogs
that are dedicated to my glasses and my
710
00:48:19.060 --> 00:48:22.100
hair. And I have I have a speech
impediment, have a stutter that I've
711
00:48:22.100 --> 00:48:26.230
tried to control on this call today,
and I wanted to be careful about who I
712
00:48:26.230 --> 00:48:35.020
take feedback from but like me has like
like me, I would say to people um make
713
00:48:35.020 --> 00:48:39.740
your brand be that you're open to
feedback that you're really working on
714
00:48:39.740 --> 00:48:44.760
all of your skills. Because I think the
most impactful thought leaders are
715
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:50.170
those that can master the variety of
mediums that your organization will
716
00:48:50.170 --> 00:48:55.110
need you to crush it in key noting on
stages, radio interviews, tv interviews,
717
00:48:55.110 --> 00:49:00.970
podcast interviews, writing columns,
writing articles and also writing short
718
00:49:00.970 --> 00:49:04.160
snippets. I mean I have I have thought
leaders all day long where we'll get an
719
00:49:04.170 --> 00:49:09.490
ap reporter That's writing an article
for some kind of something or other. We
720
00:49:09.490 --> 00:49:14.000
gotta find someone and they and they
want 75 words in three hours all the
721
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:18.480
time. And that person has to be able to,
you know, on their lunch break
722
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:23.250
somewhere in an airport in the Delta
crown room, flip open their laptop and
723
00:49:23.250 --> 00:49:28.640
write 75 valuable words and make sure
it sends happens, happens multiple
724
00:49:28.640 --> 00:49:32.820
times a day. If you want that reporter,
if you want that publicist, if you want
725
00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:36.800
that editor calling you back for future
comments and articles because they know
726
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:40.360
you're a credible source That not just
has a point of view, but you're willing
727
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:44.050
to do the hard work to sit down and
focus on it and give them 755 words
728
00:49:44.050 --> 00:49:48.170
that they may use 12 of the words when
the article comes out. Man, that's a
729
00:49:48.170 --> 00:49:51.950
great to be able to turn that. But if
you're, if you're into writing articles
730
00:49:51.950 --> 00:49:56.230
and content, all that is usually
pumping out 75 words well, it's like
731
00:49:56.230 --> 00:49:59.780
you got to refine muscle to be able to
do it. So it kind of makes sense. I
732
00:49:59.790 --> 00:50:03.690
think even a year ago I probably would
have shuddered at that fact. I would
733
00:50:03.690 --> 00:50:07.210
have been like, oh my gosh! But after
doing Lincoln constantly all all year,
734
00:50:07.220 --> 00:50:11.970
doing 1 to 2 posts most days, I'm like,
yeah, I think I could squeeze that out
735
00:50:11.970 --> 00:50:15.680
in a 30 minute lunch break or something
like that in an airport or on my cell
736
00:50:15.680 --> 00:50:19.740
phone in between things on my girl
would be a challenge. But you know, so
737
00:50:19.740 --> 00:50:24.390
it makes a lot of sense. Where can
people go to learn more about what
738
00:50:24.390 --> 00:50:29.110
you're doing? It's franklin covey. Well,
so obviously franklin covey dot com.
739
00:50:29.110 --> 00:50:33.380
You can also visit my own website,
scott Geoffrey miller dot com as an
740
00:50:33.380 --> 00:50:37.580
author and columnist and speaker. I put
up all of the podcast that I host up
741
00:50:37.580 --> 00:50:40.880
there, all the articles that I write
and you can use them as examples of how
742
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:44.840
to improve your own meaning. Like do
what I'm doing but do it better. You're
743
00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:49.330
welcome to use everything that I do as
an example of how you should and could
744
00:50:49.340 --> 00:50:53.700
do it better. So franklin covey dot com.
You also can visit scott, Geoffrey
745
00:50:53.710 --> 00:50:57.720
Miller dot com. Fantastic. Again.
Thanks for joining me on GDP growth.
746
00:50:57.730 --> 00:50:58.990
Thank you.
747
00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:07.720
Are you on linkedin? That's a stupid
question. Of course you're on linkedin.
748
00:51:07.730 --> 00:51:12.240
Here's sweet fish. We've gone all in on
the platform. Multiple people from our
749
00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:15.980
team are creating content there.
Sometimes it's a funny gift for me.
750
00:51:16.030 --> 00:51:20.110
Other times it's a micro video or a
slide deck and sometimes it's just a
751
00:51:20.110 --> 00:51:24.190
regular old status update that shares
their unique point of view on BB
752
00:51:24.190 --> 00:51:28.420
marketing leadership or their job
function. We're posting this content
753
00:51:28.420 --> 00:51:32.710
through their personal profile, not our
company page. And it would warm my
754
00:51:32.710 --> 00:51:37.130
heart and soul if you connected with
each of our evangelists, we'll be
755
00:51:37.130 --> 00:51:41.330
adding more down the road. But for now
you should connect with Bill Read our
756
00:51:41.330 --> 00:51:46.290
Ceo Kelcy Montgomery, our creative
director, dan Sanchez, our director of
757
00:51:46.290 --> 00:51:50.630
audience growth Logan Lyles, our
director of partnerships and me, James
758
00:51:50.630 --> 00:51:54.220
Carberry. We're having a whole lot of
fun on linked in pretty much every
759
00:51:54.220 --> 00:51:56.990
single day and we'd love for you to be
a part of it.