Transcript
WEBVTT
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Want to expand the reach of your
content, start a podcast, feature industry
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experts on your show and leverage the
influence in reach of your guests to grow
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your brand. Learn more at sweet
fish Mediacom. You're listening to BEDB growth,
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a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard
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before, like Gary vanner truck and
Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard
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from the majority of our guests.
That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't
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with professional speakers and authors. Most
of our guests are in the trenches leading
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sales and marketing teams. They're implementing
strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're
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building the fastest growing betb companies in
the world. My name is James Carberry.
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I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands,
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and I'm also one of the cohosts
of this show. When we're not
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interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll
hear stories from behind the scenes of our
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own business. Will share the ups
and downs of our journey as we attempt
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to take over the world. Just
getting well, maybe let's get into the
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show. Welcome back to the behind
the curtain series of BB growth. I'm
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really pumped to be back into a
somewhat regular rhythm of doing these with Logan
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Lyles, our director of partnerships.
In my dear, dear dear friend,
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Logan, how you doing name?
I'm doing fantastic, dude. I'm excited
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to see you next week, but
I'm also excited that we're back in the
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rhythm of doing these episodes and sharing
with people the lessons we're learning as we're
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building our own business here. Man. Yeah, it's super, Super Fun
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and looking. Today we're going to
be talking about the math of sales.
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This is something that we have recently
figured out for ourselves and something that I
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have been learning from Rex Bibberston and
the guys over at the sales developers.
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See them talk about that a lot
and so decided to try to figure what
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that is for us. And because
of all the data that you've been collecting
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the last probably six to eight months, really being diligent in our crm and
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working with different folks on our sales
team to get the right data input it
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so that you can see the right
numbers in front of you, you've really
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been able to come up with a
pretty comprehensive view of what it takes for
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us to get a deal across the
finish line from someone that's a complete stranger
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that we do there, we're doing
outbound with so take it from here.
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Tell us a little bit about the
numbers that you've looked at and and really
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the benefit of knowing your numbers.
Yeah, absolutely. I think I'll start
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with that second point and then we'll
get into, you know, our specific
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sales process and the conversion points and
the numbers that we look out specifically.
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But I think it's important. The
first lesson that I really learned here,
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and I would, you know,
advise for other sales leaders, especially if
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they're at early stage companies like ours, is find a way to understand the
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conversion points at the different steps in
your sales process. You know, when
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I joined the team a year ago, we didn't really have a defined sales
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process. We weren't even tracking,
you know, how many sales calls are
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we having, how many interviews are
we doing? I mean you can see
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how many interviews we're doing with prospective
customers and be to be growth feed,
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but it wasn't something that we were
actively tracking in the crm. So I've
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done some tweaking in. What are
the deal stages in our crm? We
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use hub spot crm. A lot
of people use sales force and that's a
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common first step. But really looking
at understanding the conversion points from one deal
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stage or one step in your sales
process to the next. So what I
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started doing was, all right,
we've got first sales calls, we've got
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follow up sales calls. We're usually
initiating with new prospects, if it's outbound,
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through interviewing them on BB growth.
So another, you know, sales
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activity type our interviews. And then
looking at okay, what outreach does it
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take to initiate a conversation and an
interview with someone that we would like to
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work with to interview them on the
podcast? So that's what I started looking
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at, is working from the front
end of the sales process backwards. So
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we looked at okay, we've got
email outreach. How many emails do we
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typically send in order to get a
reply and book someone to do an interview
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with us on our podcast? And
then from there, how many of those
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turn into qualified sales opportunities where there's
interest and timing, and we ask that
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question and they book a follow up
sales call further folks that might be booking
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a demo or booking a qualification call
based on cold outreach or telephone outreach or
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email or whatever it might be,
and then looking at okay, what is
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the the conversion to close from there. So first I had to look at
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what are the stages, what are
the steps in our sales process, and
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then look at the conversion points in
between there. So that that's really where
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I started. And then we had
to, you know, build different meeting
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types in our crm so that I
could see, okay, how many have
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we done, you know, per
week, per month? Here do some
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quick maths so that I could at
least have a baseline of what those conversion
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numbers were. So what were some
of those numbers? Yeah, so when
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we do email outreach to folks,
we were seeing about a thirty two,
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thirty five percent response rate and getting
them book to be a guest on the
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podcast. And then from there about
half of those fifty percent we're turning into
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qualified sales opportunities where someone was at
least interested in having a conversation about our
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service, either joining one of our
collective podcasts or US helping them launch a
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show, or maybe US helping them, you know, produce a show that
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they already have. So kind of
different opportunities, but usually a fifty percent,
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you know, which is really high. I mean, I would say
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for anybody listening, a big part
of that is one Nikki, our primary
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cohost now, is just phenomenal at
this. She does in an enormous amount
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of research on each guest and is
looking at the content that they're putting out
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and and so when she starts that
conversation at the end of the interview seeing
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if they're interested and possibly having their
own show, it's very effective because she
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puts in a lot of work to
make it that effective. There's also,
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I think, something to the fact
that we're interviewing them on a podcast and
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our service happens to be podcasting.
So the correlation of them being on a
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show and wanting their own show.
You know, we probably weed out a
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lot of the people that just wouldn't
be interested in having their own show by
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the people that don't agree to be
a guest on ours. So I was
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really shocked at that fifty percent number, that fifty percent of our guests and
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up turning into sales conversations with you. So I just wanted to give that
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caveat. That is probably not a
number you should expect if you're selling software
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or financial services or something something like
that. Yeah, I think that's a
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really good point there. You know, two things. It's kind of Meta
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in our situation and then also,
I think you know, we're very lucky
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in that the way that Nikki approaches, you know, what we call turning
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relationships into revenue and doing it in
a way that feels natural, that doesn't
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feel like you're getting a timeshare presentation
after every lunch and those sorts of things.
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Those are definitely things that you want
to think about, you know.
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I think on the flip side,
even though you're not having people on a
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podcast and then offering them podcast services
like we are, you've just had a
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conversation with someone about high level trends
in your industry, so you are more
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more equipped to have a better conversation
with them about the challenges that they're facing.
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So if you are thoughtful and your
sales process does include interviewing your prospects
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on a podcast, think about the
questions that you're asking not only in the
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content that you create, but how
you can understand your buyers better in the
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challenges they're facing, the solutions they're
finding, those sorts of things. I
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think we get a lot of that
by interviewing marketers about, you know,
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things other than just podcasting as well. So I think that's really good context,
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James. So moving on from there, you know I mentioned our email
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outreach. Thirty to thirty five percent
between sales calls and then a five to
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ten percent close rate off of,
you know, all sales calls that we're
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having. Now the next step in
the process here that we're kind of dealing
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with or looking to tackle, is
to break it down further, because what
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this allowed us to do here,
now that we have these three conversion points
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in these three metrics, we can
work backwards from a revenue goal. Okay,
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we know our average deal size is
this. Okay, how many deals
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per month does it take to hit
this goal? Okay, then we need
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to have this many sales calls.
Then we need to have this many interviews.
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Now we need to do this much
outreach, because we know those points
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along the way. So that has
been a game changer for us, as
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opposed to just hey, let's set
this goal and let's let's try and hit
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it and let's just work really hard, which our team has been doing a
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great job at. But now we
have better leading indicators. To Borrow,
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you know, a phrase as we
went through the four disciplines of execution a
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while back. What are those lead
measures that are going to lead to the
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lag measures that we're trying to be
just knowing, knowing, we need to
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find contact information for VP's of marketing
at seven hundred accounts in a particular industry.
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So with our new model, with
these collective shows we're doing, BEB
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sales show, industrial and manufacturing,
crafting culture, these shows that are focused
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on very specific industries or roles in
an organization or categories. We know,
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okay, we're going to go to
seven hundred companies, knowing that thirty five
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percent of those people are going to
say yes to being on the show,
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knowing that fifty percent of those people
are going to turn into a sales conversation,
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knowing that five to ten percent of
those people are going to end up
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becoming a cohost of one of these
shows. So the having that number,
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seven hundred, makes equipping our research
team that's building these lists for us jobs
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so much easier because we know,
hey, we need to go find conferences
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that have, you know this,
seven hundred different sponsors so that we can
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build list accordingly, or we need
to find lists since some other way.
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But seven hundred is your stopping point, and so we're really in the beginning
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phases of taking it to this level. We haven't done this before, so
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we might mind that with selling collective
shows, that takes a little bit more.
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Maybe it takes eight hundred or nine
hundred. But I'm really excited to
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dive in and start using this this
framework that you've allowed us to execute,
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because to me it just brings an
enormous amount of clarity and focus around what
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we're doing. Yeah, absolutely,
and I think you know a couple of
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things here in the next stage for
us. I think you touched on a
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caveat there. Right now we're not
entirely changing our business model, but we've
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layered on and new offering in the
last four to five months. That is
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a very much a different go to
market strategy. It has allowed us to
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be more account base, more targeted. We've narrowed in our ICP quite a
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bit. So one thing I'm keeping
my eye on as as we've offered a
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new service and we've become more targeted
as opposed to saying, hey, we
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tend to work with tech companies.
We know are buyer persona as a VP
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of marketing, typically we know that
fifty plus employees is kind of a ground
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level for US typically in that that
account criteria. Now we're being more targeted.
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Okay, we're trying to find folks
who want to get in front of
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HR or media facturing companies, and
so we're taking that ICP that's been kind
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of loose and narrowing it down.
And so I think one of the things
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here, not only for sales but
for marketing, is the more you understand
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your ICP, the more you can
hone in this math of sales. And
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Yeah, we're at the beginning stages
of it. Admittedly, is as you
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point out there, James, but
I think that's going to allow us to
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really test and and Ab test different
things to see what's really effective, because
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the next steps for us here,
and I was talking with with racks,
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that the sales developers about this,
is he was looking at kind of our
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math of a sale. It was
like, well, you know, you
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know your conversion point from interview to
sales call and sales call the close.
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But what about the steps between that
first sales call and the close? If
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you deliver a proposal, how does
that Change Your conversion rate? Another thing
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I'm thinking about is, you know, I've tracked number of sales calls we've
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had over the last year and number
of deals that we've closed and doing that
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simple math has given me that five
to ten percent close rate. But I
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don't know definitively. Okay, if
it's outbound it's five percent, if it's
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inbound it's fourteen percent. You know, those are two different sales motions.
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A lot of organizations are going to
have a mixture of inbound and outbound.
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Now they might be different percentages,
but most of us are going to have
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those two sales motions and I think
understanding the percentages on both of those and
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isolating them a little bit can add
a lot of value and, to your
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point, more clarity. So that's
kind of the next step for me is
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figuring out these mini steps in the
process. What are those conversion points?
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Because the value there is going to
be not only more clarity but allow us
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to find Oh, maybe there's a
small leak here and let's let's test how
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we do this or how we follow
up after the first sales call or how
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we deliver a proposal that could to
help us, you know, increase a
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little bit. And something I saw
from Ethan Bawt at bombomb the other day
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is, you know, was very
encouraging. Hey, if you increase,
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you know, five percent here,
five percent here, five percent here,
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I five, all of a sudden
you're at twenty five percent. Yeah,
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feel like you've made this massive shift
and twenty five percent increase in your sales
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process feels like, you know,
a massive task. Yeah, that's encouraging
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for this next stage and then being
able to delineate inbound versus outbound so that
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you can you can build out your
team accordingly. Do you want to go
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heavier outbound because you see that the
economics of that in the the input that
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it takes, really works well?
Or maybe inbound is just more economical as
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you understand the math of your sales, so you're going to invest even more
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in content. So it really educates
your approach to building out operations, to
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building out marketing and all those sorts
of things. Is something I you know,
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a quote that that I love especially, you know, heading up the
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sales team here at sweet fish.
I was mentioning to build our co the
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other day. Nothing happens until someone
sells something. Yep, and you know,
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the idea that, hey, I
know what it takes to sell something
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so that I can plan for these
other areas I think enormously valuable, and
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so it's been fun for me to
work through this process. Yeah, the
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idea of, obviously that Aaron Ross
made famous, with predictable revenue is just
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really exciting to me, as as
we start to build out other parts of
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the organization and we're hiring people that
can help us build audiences for the shows
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that we're building and and hiring videographers
and social media folks and and writers and
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it all that. We can't do
any of that stuff because we don't have
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ten million dollars in the bank from
a, you know, venture capital firm.
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It knowing predictably, okay, we
reached out to, you know whatever,
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three hundred and three hundred fifty accounts
in the last two weeks. We
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know that statistically that should turn into
this many new cohost for these collective shows
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and this many traditional shows. You
know, six weeks from now or whatever
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the case may be. Being able
to have that level of granularity in your
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in your forecasting and and reliability of
your forecasting as we see these numbers play
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out, that you know moving forward. I think. I think bill,
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our CEOS, is going to love
it, but it gives me, and
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it over, some amount of piece
as well. Yeah, I love it,
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man. Well, hopefully this has
been valuable for folks in just hearing
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us think through and share what we've
been going through as we build out.
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What is the anatomy? What is
the math of sales for us and how
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that affects, you know, the
other parts of the business. Is,
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as you point out there with bill. It helps you know, with planning,
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with staffing plans and all those sorts
of things, especially if you are
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a boots tramp startup. So for
folks who haven't gone through this exercise or
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have kind of let their metrics just
kind of sit and they haven't evaluated them
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lately, I hope this is a
little bit of encouragement to dive back into
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that, because I feel like it's
been helpful for us. Awesome, Sweet
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Logan, you are all over instagram
these days. At I am Logan Lyles.
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I am at James Carbury on instagram. I've been up in my instagram
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game as well. Instagram as a
channel that that we're starting to really go
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heavy on with the shows that we
produce, with our collective shows that we
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mentioned. So industrial podcast, BB
sales show, be tob growth show even
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starting to get really active on instagram. So make sure to at least follow
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Logan and I. I am Logan
Lyles at James Carberry on instagram. We
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would love to connect with you there
see a little bit more behind the scenes.
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If you're listening to this episode and
you enjoy hearing Logan and I talk
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about this kind of stuff, see
a lot more of it on instagram.
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So, Logan, man, thank
you so much for dropping your brain on
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this episode and talking us through how
you've verse engineered these numbers and and really
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excited to do this again. It
awesome, man. Appreciate it. We
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totally get it. We publish a
ton of content on this podcast and it
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00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:26.470
can be a lot to keep up
with. That's why we've started the B
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00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:30.259
tob growth big three, a no
fluff email that boils down our three biggest
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00:17:30.259 --> 00:17:36.500
takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom
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00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.380
Big Three. That sweet fish Mediacom
Big Three