Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:09.070 Hello and welcome to the BEDB grows show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas Fourdet, 2 00:00:09.189 --> 00:00:13.070 hosts of the marketing book podcast, where each week I published an interview 3 00:00:13.109 --> 00:00:16.190 with the author of a new marketing or sales book to help me and my 4 00:00:16.269 --> 00:00:20.309 listeners keep up with the latest ideas in the quickly changing world of modern marketing 5 00:00:20.350 --> 00:00:24.940 and sales. Joining me as always is my friend James Mu or, author 6 00:00:25.019 --> 00:00:29.379 of the perfect close, the secret to closing sales, the best selling practices 7 00:00:29.420 --> 00:00:34.380 and techniques for closing the deal. In this monthly episode of the BB Gross 8 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:38.170 Show, we recap some of the key ideas from the marketing sales books that 9 00:00:38.210 --> 00:00:42.969 were recently featured on the marketing book podcast. I read every book featured on 10 00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:47.409 the Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads even more books than I do and 11 00:00:47.969 --> 00:00:53.119 he listens to every episode of the Marketing Book Podcast, so I'm delighted that 12 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:57.439 he can join me. If either of US can recommend any marketing your sales 13 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:00.640 books or other resources for whatever situation you find yourself in, please feel free 14 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.709 to connect with us on linkedin where we can chat and we'll do our best 15 00:01:03.709 --> 00:01:07.709 to point you in the right direction. James, welcome back to the BEDB 16 00:01:07.829 --> 00:01:11.109 gross show. Book Talk. Thank you, my friend. In this episode 17 00:01:11.150 --> 00:01:15.230 we're going to talk about four recent books featured on the Marketing Book Podcast, 18 00:01:15.549 --> 00:01:19.299 which are context marketing revolution. How to motivate buyers in the age of infinite 19 00:01:19.299 --> 00:01:25.500 media by Matthew Sweezy, sizing people up a veteran FBI agents user manual for 20 00:01:25.579 --> 00:01:30.099 behavioral prediction by Robin Drake, owning game changing subcast categories on common growth in 21 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:34.609 the digital age by David acker and finally, restoring the soul of business, 22 00:01:34.849 --> 00:01:38.769 staying human in the age of data, by Rashad to Bacca Walla. Now, 23 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.650 before we get to the books, let's Talk Quarantine. How are things 24 00:01:42.689 --> 00:01:46.930 at Fort Burdette right now? Oh good, thank you. As probably most 25 00:01:46.969 --> 00:01:51.680 of the listeners are hold up at their home, but I've been not shaving 26 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.400 for about the last six weeks just to see what happens. So I think 27 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.879 I'll be getting a part as an extra in a civil war film soon, 28 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:04.549 I'm but everybody's healthy, happy, doing well. Daughter came home from college 29 00:02:05.230 --> 00:02:08.469 for Spring Breaks in your year and they said don't come back and can't do 30 00:02:08.590 --> 00:02:14.310 graduation. So she's been around. It's been great and my son's an EMT, 31 00:02:14.550 --> 00:02:16.580 so he's really on the front line of all this stuff and he's actually 32 00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:23.020 been holding up at a Virginia Beach oceanfront resort which is empty, but they 33 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:29.500 opened it up to coronavirus first responders who kind of wanted their own place so 34 00:02:29.539 --> 00:02:34.330 that they wouldn't bring things home. So it's it's an interesting story. He's 35 00:02:34.370 --> 00:02:36.610 on the front line of that. But it's also a great example of a 36 00:02:36.689 --> 00:02:39.129 company. This one's called diamond resource where. I mean they're getting crushed. 37 00:02:39.330 --> 00:02:43.330 I don't know how they're handling us, but they said, you know what, 38 00:02:43.729 --> 00:02:46.400 let's at least do something good to help. So what a great example. 39 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.319 I think I saw picture him on social too. Yeah, yeah, 40 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.759 Great. Well, we're holding down here. It's at the Costa de Mirror, 41 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:57.879 so we're hoping that it ends soon. All right, first thought. 42 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:00.590 We've got call text marketing revolution, how to motivate buyers in the age of 43 00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:05.629 infinite media, by Matthew Sweezy, and this is a Barnburner of a book. 44 00:03:05.789 --> 00:03:08.229 It's one of the most well researched and actual marking books I have read 45 00:03:08.270 --> 00:03:10.669 in a long time. I mean over and over I found myself, while 46 00:03:10.669 --> 00:03:13.020 I was reading this thing. Oh, I got to do that, I 47 00:03:13.099 --> 00:03:15.699 got to do that right. So tell us a little bit about Matthew sweezies 48 00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:19.780 book. Well, he is a, you know, a marketer and he 49 00:03:20.099 --> 00:03:23.740 works for sales force and the interesting one of the many and this was published 50 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:30.090 by Harvard Business Review Press and they took so much data from customers, you 51 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:35.650 know, research mean sales force has lots of data and they can get even 52 00:03:35.689 --> 00:03:38.650 more and this book was a bit of a barn burner and it's like one 53 00:03:38.689 --> 00:03:43.159 of those books that at some point you're going to hear a lot of marketers 54 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:45.319 say, yeah, this is the one they read. You know, like 55 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:50.080 a lot of salespeople ten years ago said they all read the Challenger Sale. 56 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.789 This is a similar kind of thing for marketers and there's so much interesting information 57 00:03:54.949 --> 00:04:00.949 in here. But what's first and foremost of great interest to me is that 58 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:05.469 in the book he talks about how one day in June of two thousand and 59 00:04:05.629 --> 00:04:10.340 nine, I think it was, or two thousand and eight. Looking back 60 00:04:10.860 --> 00:04:15.139 on that day, they realized that more content was produced by individuals that my 61 00:04:15.259 --> 00:04:19.259 companies on that particular day and it's never come back. It's sort of like 62 00:04:19.339 --> 00:04:23.660 crossing the equator on a ship. You know you you don't notice that at 63 00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:28.649 the time, but they tell you you passed it. And he he explains 64 00:04:28.689 --> 00:04:33.810 all that beautifully and is also a way of explaining that we are in an 65 00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:39.360 era of limitless media. So what does that mean to people? Well, 66 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:46.000 there are a lot of companies out there that think their mindset is still in 67 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.279 that of a world of limited media. And what I mean by that is 68 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:53.589 like back when I was a New York ad man, there was limited media 69 00:04:54.029 --> 00:04:57.790 and it worked beautifully and we had captive audiences and they were either reading magazines 70 00:04:57.829 --> 00:05:01.470 or watching our TV commercials and not being able to fast forward and reading the 71 00:05:01.550 --> 00:05:04.910 newspapers. It mean you had more of a captive audience and there were media 72 00:05:04.949 --> 00:05:12.420 gate keepers and you could buy attention right. So now, in this era 73 00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:18.019 of limitless media, I like to say everyone's competing with cat videos because our 74 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:24.329 attention is so overwhelmed. And there's another book on the show while back called 75 00:05:24.329 --> 00:05:30.209 the econoist, where he also explained beautifully how oversaturated everyone's attention is. And 76 00:05:31.089 --> 00:05:34.720 it brings to mind me talking to a client or something where they'll say, 77 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.759 well, this actually happened, where they said, we want to start a 78 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:44.360 newsletter campaign, email newsletter, and I want to talk about ourselves and our 79 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:47.759 products and some of the projects we've been doing. And I'm reading this book 80 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.029 and I'm just thinking, you know, I mean, these are Nice folks 81 00:05:51.069 --> 00:05:55.910 and they would they mean well, but they're stellf oriented and they have no 82 00:05:56.230 --> 00:06:00.470 sense of how they don't even have a chance. And in this book he 83 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:06.339 talks about this self oriented advertising is actually it's more than invisible, it's out. 84 00:06:06.579 --> 00:06:13.899 It's actually damaging a lot of companies who don't appreciate just how overwhelmed people 85 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:16.660 are and the idea of trying to you know, the only thing comes to 86 00:06:16.699 --> 00:06:19.769 mind from maybe be like if there's a football game on and they go to 87 00:06:19.810 --> 00:06:24.290 a TV commercial like live sports, maybe I'll still see some commercials, but 88 00:06:24.410 --> 00:06:30.490 those the only commercials I ever see. And so he talks about how you 89 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:34.040 just can't buy attention, you can't shout at people. To succeed now you 90 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:41.879 have to really understand and be good at context. So you have to deeply 91 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:46.870 understand your customers and then what they're going through as they're looking to solve a 92 00:06:46.990 --> 00:06:50.589 problem that your product might have something to do with. So in other words. 93 00:06:50.589 --> 00:06:56.709 Naturally he'll talk about getting found, and that includes search engine optimization of 94 00:06:56.790 --> 00:07:00.540 all, as many, many other things. And then you have to underscores 95 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:04.379 what Seth God and talked about over twenty years ago with permission marketing, is 96 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:10.220 you really do have to get the permission of these people you're trying to market 97 00:07:10.339 --> 00:07:15.420 to. Is going that way legally, and that's what people, you know, 98 00:07:15.660 --> 00:07:19.410 really expect. And so he also talks in the book about, you 99 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:24.009 know, the understanding of your customers and naturally the best way to do that 100 00:07:24.250 --> 00:07:29.009 is to really zero in on the persona research and there's been other books written 101 00:07:29.009 --> 00:07:31.079 about that. He talks about that as well. So I mean there was 102 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:35.519 so much in this book that it's it was new and it was interesting, 103 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.800 it was refreshing, and I'll get off my soapbox here, but the thing, 104 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.279 one of the things that I have taken with me from this book is 105 00:07:44.430 --> 00:07:48.509 that ever since I read the book, I am now able to put everybody 106 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:54.509 in the business world into one of two mental camps, meaning what their perspective 107 00:07:54.550 --> 00:07:59.100 is, and one is they still think they're in an era of limited media 108 00:07:59.740 --> 00:08:03.259 where they think they can interrupt their way or buy attention and then the others 109 00:08:03.339 --> 00:08:09.459 that are doing really well at gathering attention and providing the right information to their 110 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:13.850 customers within the right context, and those are the ones that are doing extremely 111 00:08:13.889 --> 00:08:20.370 well and they understand that they are in this era of limitless media. Yeah, 112 00:08:20.410 --> 00:08:24.490 it's the it's the difference between being you focused, brings being or self 113 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:28.600 focused. Sorry, so focused are very or client focused. So I think 114 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.480 irony is that literally, the marketers are competing against the very people and individuals 115 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:35.639 that they're trying to reach. Right, those people are sharing, there's those 116 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.590 individuals are sharing more media now than actual media people are so fascinating. Is 117 00:08:41.950 --> 00:08:43.429 His one takeaway on here was really what you said at the very beginning, 118 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:46.350 which is we've left the old era right, we're in a new time now, 119 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:52.149 and that learning how to work with customers the entire way through their goal 120 00:08:52.429 --> 00:08:56.940 is what creates the best outcomes. And I found this book very practical and 121 00:08:56.139 --> 00:08:58.259 with a lot of actionable stuff in it. And so the one thing he 122 00:08:58.299 --> 00:09:01.860 said folks could do is to do what he called a review, and what 123 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:05.620 he means by that is ask customers what they actually thought about the content that 124 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:09.820 you just provided them. And he even gave three questions on how to do 125 00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:11.610 that, which is indicative of a whole book is very practical, like thecause. 126 00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:15.370 Ask Them. You know what got you to this moment that made you 127 00:09:15.409 --> 00:09:18.210 want to download our stuff or whatever. The second did this experience fufill your 128 00:09:18.210 --> 00:09:22.210 expectation of it? And third, have you seen better? And, like 129 00:09:22.330 --> 00:09:24.799 I said, that is really just a microcosm of how actionable this entire book 130 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.519 is. I I don't think that the the concept of context marketing is really 131 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:33.519 hundred percent new, but what Matthew Sweezy does is brilliantly document that and make 132 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.399 it very actionable. Right. It's easily the best book on the topic. 133 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.950 Yeah, and I think it's also like everything in the book he talked about 134 00:09:41.990 --> 00:09:45.149 I was familiar with, although I still I learned so much from all these 135 00:09:45.190 --> 00:09:48.950 books. But what I love is being able to see how people like Matthew 136 00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:56.580 are able to explain various concepts that I try to explain or I struggle with 137 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:01.059 helping people to understand. So that's I probably get twice as much out of 138 00:10:01.059 --> 00:10:05.659 the books just because I'm such an admirer of the way these authors are able 139 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.330 to explain these concepts, which normally just make people's heads explode. Amen. 140 00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:11.970 Right, he's got a gift for that, all right. Well, next 141 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:16.169 up we got sizing people up, a veteran FBI agents user manual for behavioral 142 00:10:16.289 --> 00:10:20.250 prediction by Robin Drake. And and by the way, who couldn't want to 143 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.240 watch read this book with the title like that? Right? This book is 144 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:26.879 a great follow up to his other book, and he's got several of the 145 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:30.159 books, but the one I'm thinking of his code of trust. HMM, 146 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.440 and I think it's got really brought application for both sales professionals as well as 147 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.549 markers and really almost anybody. Who Will you have as interested in, you 148 00:10:37.629 --> 00:10:41.429 know, understanding the trust and intentions of another person? But give us a 149 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:45.389 lowdown on sizing people out, by Robin treek. So he was a FBI 150 00:10:45.509 --> 00:10:48.669 agent for, I guess twenty years. He was in the Marines for five 151 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:52.659 years after you graduate from the Naval Academy, and what he did, apparently 152 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:58.259 most of the time he was in the FBI was dealt with Russians who wanted 153 00:10:58.299 --> 00:11:03.820 to become double agents. I may not be getting exactly right, but so 154 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:07.649 he had to gain their confidence quickly. Yeah, and he had to really 155 00:11:07.690 --> 00:11:11.049 understand what was motivating them. Another was like you talked about with the context 156 00:11:11.129 --> 00:11:16.889 marketing revolution. It couldn't be about him. It had to be all about 157 00:11:16.169 --> 00:11:20.360 that person that he was he was dealing with, which, of course, 158 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.600 I think this is such a great book for salespeople. But he talks about 159 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:31.870 how he finally codified this practice that he developed about being able to tell if 160 00:11:31.870 --> 00:11:35.669 he was going to be able to trust somebody. And it doesn't mean that 161 00:11:37.830 --> 00:11:41.669 not tell if they were moral or good or bad people. He just needed 162 00:11:41.710 --> 00:11:45.230 to know if he could trust them. Right. You see the distinction there. 163 00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:50.059 So he talks about this one concept which I particularly liked. It was 164 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:54.980 called stempathy. Yes, I know the one. You I could. I 165 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:56.259 thought that was great. I think he needs to write a book about that 166 00:11:56.539 --> 00:12:01.730 concept all by itself. And it's a combination of stoicism and empathy. So 167 00:12:01.330 --> 00:12:07.409 empathy means understand, deeply, understanding the person you're dealing with, but the 168 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:13.809 stempathy comes from stoicism, which is just accept it took. Don't get hung 169 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:18.440 up on you know what they're doing is right or wrong or if they're in 170 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.759 misinformed or whatever. It's not important in terms of figuring out if they can 171 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:30.669 be trusted. And he also talks about this thing called the primacy of self 172 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:33.789 interests. You know, humans are self interested. That's how we've evolved and 173 00:12:33.909 --> 00:12:39.470 stayed you know, being able to pass our genes along for many, many, 174 00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:43.669 many years. And he says except that people are looking out for their 175 00:12:43.710 --> 00:12:48.019 own self interests. There's nothing wrong with that. That's okay. And then 176 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:50.460 there were just other a couple other concepts that I wanted to mention. One 177 00:12:50.620 --> 00:12:56.539 was called a vesting, which is where you have to get the other person 178 00:12:58.299 --> 00:13:01.409 to figure out if you're gonna be able to trust each other, you have 179 00:13:01.610 --> 00:13:05.850 to show that you're invested in their success. First, you have to know 180 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:11.009 what success is for them, but show that you're committed to them. And 181 00:13:11.250 --> 00:13:16.399 another one that was interesting was this concept of longevity. So you've got to 182 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:20.639 help them understand that both of you are in it for the long term for 183 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.279 each other. And and again, that came back to a lot of things 184 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.990 in sales where, like somebody would say, look, I could sell this 185 00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:31.149 to you, but it's not going to help you long term. You know 186 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:35.669 how you trust goes way up when you when you tell her approach like that. 187 00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:41.779 And one of the others was being able to figure out if the reliable 188 00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:45.940 or not. I thought that was great. And it's not about are they 189 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:48.419 good or bad. Are they going to do? They have the capacity to 190 00:13:48.500 --> 00:13:52.019 do what they say they're going to do and a lot of people, you 191 00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:56.450 know, just don't. Don't have that. And you know also, I 192 00:13:56.490 --> 00:13:58.889 think probably the most important one that he talked about is is how to figure 193 00:13:58.889 --> 00:14:03.769 out if somebody is mentally stable enough. That ties in with the emotional hijacking. 194 00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:07.730 Yes, yes, tell about the emotional hijacking. That's another great one. 195 00:14:07.809 --> 00:14:11.120 That that's just how how is a person respond when they get into one 196 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:16.799 of these emotionally high situations and how fast do they recover for it? So 197 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.799 when he's talking about stability, do they get hijacks for, you know, 198 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:22.440 weeks, months, years, but can they recover from that or it? 199 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:26.750 Can they recover from a quickly? That's kind of I mean the thing about 200 00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:31.190 all he's got these six different right behavior prediction things in his book and he's 201 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:33.629 got all these wonderful tasks that you can use to try to understand, you 202 00:14:33.669 --> 00:14:37.470 know, where the person sits on each one of those right it's almost like 203 00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:39.539 a trust or don't trust type of a thing with the test that he's given, 204 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:43.379 and he gave some of those on your interview with him, but that 205 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:46.259 the stability one, is essentially how fast can they recover from Yos, an 206 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:50.659 emotional hijacking? Can they recover quickly and get back into action? And then 207 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:52.850 it demonstrate all the rest of the attributes or not. Yeah, and also 208 00:14:52.889 --> 00:14:58.129 the emotional hijacking. If you're aware of that, you are able to better 209 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.330 respond to it, because it's impossible not to become somewhat emotionally hijacked. And 210 00:15:01.450 --> 00:15:05.049 that's kind of the interesting thing about the whole book is the whole book, 211 00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:07.320 as you're reading it, you not only are you looking at it thinking, 212 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.000 oh, Hey, I can use this to understand this other person better, 213 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.360 but you're looking at it say hey, how do I deal with these types? 214 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.960 You're right. So I thought it was this is good for myself, 215 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.600 as I was for understanding other folks. Yeah, it was really, really 216 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.509 interesting. I hope it's not the last book. He writes now really great 217 00:15:22.509 --> 00:15:24.429 books. So his one takeaway on this one, which is kind of you 218 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:28.149 alluded to the beginning, it's just understand and the interesting thing about this book 219 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:33.309 is it has a surprising amount of compassion throughout the entire book. That surprised 220 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:35.139 me right. Yeah, I FBI guy. It was going to be hardcore 221 00:15:35.259 --> 00:15:39.940 reading people's personalities and things like that, but really it was much more of 222 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:43.139 about how to understand the other person. And the the fact that he was 223 00:15:43.179 --> 00:15:45.820 an FBI guy and doing that, you know, with agents and all that, 224 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:50.370 that just speaks world's about how important it is to actually genuinely understand others, 225 00:15:50.409 --> 00:15:54.889 including customers, right. And then what he says is understand how to 226 00:15:54.929 --> 00:15:58.129 be a valuable resource to them and then do what you have to do to 227 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:00.289 genuinely understand them. So that's his takeaway. And then the one thing he 228 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:06.159 said that the listeners could do going forward is to start seeing the greatness and 229 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.240 other people and, instead of looking for what they're doing wrong, look for 230 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:14.320 what's what they're doing right and validate that. So now I really am enjoyed 231 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.679 this book. I mean he he kind of shows you you know who to 232 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:19.389 trust, why to trust, when to trust in the book. And so 233 00:16:19.389 --> 00:16:22.750 if he ever wanted a a complete map, you know, of how to 234 00:16:22.830 --> 00:16:23.830 trust or not trust, this book will show you that way. And, 235 00:16:23.909 --> 00:16:26.149 like I said, there's a surprising amount of compassion that. So I think 236 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:30.950 it's a great read for everybody. Yeah, and I heard that if you 237 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:33.620 lie to an FBI agent you could go to prison. I heard that from 238 00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:38.539 my friend Marthea's so at the beginning interview I said to make really sure that 239 00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:44.179 he was retired FBI agent because if I asked and said something that wasn't true, 240 00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:47.169 I was worried I was going to get that's a high res scenario, 241 00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:51.250 right, high stakes interview. I suffered from my art. It's all about 242 00:16:51.289 --> 00:16:56.009 my audience. So all right. Next up we've got owning game changing subcategories, 243 00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:00.289 uncommon growth in the digital age, by David Acker, and David Ocker 244 00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:03.960 is a phenomenal and prolific writer. I think he's got like thirteen or fourteen 245 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.480 books on marketing and branding out there, and this book is about innovating within 246 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.720 subcategories to create business growth. So tell us about your interview with David Aker, 247 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.670 the second time I've interviewed him, and he is considered the godfather of 248 00:17:15.910 --> 00:17:21.269 modern branding strategy. So when we say branding, we're not talking about logos, 249 00:17:21.309 --> 00:17:26.069 we're talking about business strategy involving brands. And what was interesting to me 250 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:30.019 is that I wasn't aware of all this going on, but he talks about 251 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:34.059 how in the digital world companies are disruptive even more quickly. So I guess 252 00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:40.980 I did know that. But he then shows how companies are taking advantage of 253 00:17:41.059 --> 00:17:44.970 all that to grow dramatically. And so he looked at all these companies and 254 00:17:45.089 --> 00:17:48.009 the different categories that have grown very quickly and what they had, I think 255 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:52.250 all of them had done was, rather than creating like a new product category, 256 00:17:52.769 --> 00:17:57.880 all they do is create a subcategory. So like the Japanese, I 257 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:02.880 can't know if it's Karen, but the whoever came out with the dry beer 258 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:08.079 in Japan first. Well, they created this dry beer category and it worked 259 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.839 really, really well for them and they grew it and then the others would, 260 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.910 other beers would try to join in, but these other guys got there 261 00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:21.230 first and it was almost more about that subcategory than it was that particular brand. 262 00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:25.910 It's just it was it was fastening to read and he talks about all 263 00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:29.579 the different ways that you do it and even non I guess whatever. No 264 00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:33.579 nondigital, like a industrial kind of company in these digitals everywhere now. But 265 00:18:33.859 --> 00:18:36.500 I'm not talking about just the UBERS and the AIRBNB's of the world. So 266 00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:38.579 there's other kinds of companies out there. They're that are doing this sort of 267 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:45.690 thing and at the heart of a lot of these new subcategories that are created 268 00:18:47.569 --> 00:18:52.769 is really understanding where the frustrations are for their customers. Once again, it 269 00:18:52.970 --> 00:19:00.319 comes back to understanding your customers and what's irritating them. And also there's a 270 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.000 hesitation on the part of a lot of companies to say, well, I'll 271 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.000 give you an example, like Kodak, like, Oh no, let's not 272 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.599 focus on the digital stuff. We're in the film business and it's complicated. 273 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.029 I don't mean to be being up a cat on Kodak, because that was 274 00:19:11.069 --> 00:19:15.269 a you know, they've got all kinds of distribution and they you can't just 275 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:19.230 disrupt these things quickly, but they, a lot of companies also had the 276 00:19:19.470 --> 00:19:23.420 mindset of if they don't disrupt themselves, someone else is going to do it 277 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:27.500 anyway. So that's why they're experimenting with creating new subcategories. And also, 278 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:30.259 if you have a subcategory, it's not like ift. Don't explain that. 279 00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:37.099 There's a point of reference everyone are already understands. Agreed. Interesting. I 280 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:38.490 thought that he said that it's more important that you would be the first one 281 00:19:38.529 --> 00:19:42.529 to get it right in that subcategory than just being the first one in that 282 00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:48.690 which called back again to listening to the customer. So he goes through this 283 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:52.160 and bact he talks about must have throughout the entire book and I think essentially 284 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.359 what he's doing is trying to give you the idea of what the must haves 285 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.599 for given subcategory or going to be different for each and so he's got tons 286 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.680 of great examples throughout the book of different organizations and the must have that they've 287 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.950 had in their little subcategories, like the drive beer you mentioned, but you 288 00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:11.789 know he mentioned Tesla and a bunch of other great examples in there. Yeah, 289 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:15.670 so his one takeaway. It was just realized, like you said, 290 00:20:15.750 --> 00:20:19.549 that the old our brand is better than your brand strategy really doesn't produce significant 291 00:20:19.630 --> 00:20:22.819 growth, it really doesn't work, and yet that's the basis for so much 292 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.619 marketing. Communication got to be the majority of it right, right, and 293 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:30.539 you have to create a brand new subcategory and leverage that in order to build 294 00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:36.049 customer relationships and brand relationships and also that, like you said, digital has 295 00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:38.930 really put this whole particular strategy on steroids and there's a lot of potential there. 296 00:20:40.569 --> 00:20:42.809 So that the one thing he says that reader, they're sorry, listeners, 297 00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:47.650 could do is it's just to change their innovation makes from just something that's 298 00:20:47.650 --> 00:20:53.440 incremental within a single category to to more substantial transformational types of innovations that involved 299 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:59.559 new subcategories, right, and to be close to the customer. Yeah, 300 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:03.759 really by a phenomenal author and I thought it delivered a lot of powerful insights 301 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.269 on innovation strategy. Absolutely okay. Now, last up we've got restoring the 302 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:12.349 soul of business, staying human an age of data, by Rashad Tobacca Walla, 303 00:21:12.950 --> 00:21:18.390 and I found this title really refreshing. I mean I see analysis paralysis 304 00:21:18.470 --> 00:21:22.220 everywhere and this book really speaks to that. So Tay tell us how to 305 00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:26.700 restore the whole business. Yes, and I would argue is even more relevant 306 00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:33.289 now in the age of coronavirus and sheltering at home. So we're Shawn Tobacca 307 00:21:33.329 --> 00:21:38.769 Walla is of very senior executive with publicists, which is the parent company of, 308 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:42.130 amongst other companies, the Leo Burnett Company, where he started in the 309 00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:48.680 early s after he got his MBA at the University of Chicago. Bust School 310 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.960 of business and he's been there ever since and he is a real digital pioneer. 311 00:21:52.079 --> 00:22:00.039 He started some of the very first interactive subsidiaries. They're digital media buying. 312 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:06.509 So he is you're not going to find somebody who understands digital and all 313 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:12.670 that world better than anyone else. However, he argues that it if anybody 314 00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:18.460 has seen it go too far, it's Rashad. So he talks about how 315 00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:23.740 overreliance on data is not a good thing and that there are certain things in 316 00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:30.130 this increasingly digital world that companies that are doing well are remembering and other companies 317 00:22:30.170 --> 00:22:34.369 are are going too far. You know, he talks about the the dark 318 00:22:34.410 --> 00:22:42.049 side of our world of bright screens and he talks about why data is so 319 00:22:42.410 --> 00:22:51.680 seductive and organizations make a huge mistake when they become overly focused on just the 320 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.960 data. So it was interesting in the book he said, you know, 321 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:02.150 we should learn to ask questions data can answer, not data driven questions, 322 00:23:02.750 --> 00:23:07.309 and so often that, you know, it's like the the notion that not 323 00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:11.829 everything that can be measured matters and not everything that matters can be measured. 324 00:23:11.150 --> 00:23:15.339 I don't know who said that. Everyone says that it's Einstein, I'm not 325 00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:21.259 sure about that. But he talked about things like how, so many things. 326 00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:26.819 One of them was about how workers now really are looking for meaning in 327 00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:29.809 the modern workplace. You know, they want to understand, and you hear 328 00:23:29.809 --> 00:23:32.210 about this a lot with the younger workers and I think they have it right, 329 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:34.769 where they want to understand how what they're doing helps. You know, 330 00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:40.490 the this notion about being a cog in the machine is just it's a nonstarter 331 00:23:40.569 --> 00:23:44.359 and you're not going to be very competitive. But in a nod to knuckle 332 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:52.319 headed people like myself in the book he did talk about Turds and he talked 333 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:59.710 about this notion of in business today you have to make it so your employees 334 00:23:59.750 --> 00:24:02.869 can talk about the Turd on the table, and what he meant by that 335 00:24:03.349 --> 00:24:07.829 was if something is doesn't make sense or if something is not a good idea, 336 00:24:08.069 --> 00:24:12.059 you've got to let people feel safe enough to say that, because they're 337 00:24:12.099 --> 00:24:18.900 actually doing you a big favor by doing that. And he also talked about, 338 00:24:18.019 --> 00:24:25.210 you know, change, and change is horrifying to employees, it's horrifying 339 00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:30.690 to humans and again, from our caveman past, change often meant that your 340 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:34.930 chances of dying were greater. So I don't think that's been erased from our 341 00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:40.400 hard drives. And he talks about how you know if you're going to make 342 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:44.839 change, and everybody's having to make change. He talks about again, back 343 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.519 to the TURDS, he says, you have to talk about like the Colon, 344 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.910 and he's just looking. Don't just say everything's going to come out great, 345 00:24:52.549 --> 00:24:56.910 he said, talk about all the pain and suffering and the things that 346 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.589 are going to have to happen in order to affect this change and then talk 347 00:25:00.589 --> 00:25:03.750 about why the change is important. It works a lot better. Again, 348 00:25:04.190 --> 00:25:08.539 you know, you're being more honest with people. And another thing that he 349 00:25:08.660 --> 00:25:12.019 talked about. I don't think this is just driven by, you know, 350 00:25:12.099 --> 00:25:18.099 the pre coronavirus economy, and that is that. You know, he says 351 00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:22.490 talent used to work for companies and today companies need to work for talent, 352 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:25.369 right, and I've heard that so many times. I just I just like 353 00:25:25.529 --> 00:25:29.609 the way that, you know, that he talked about that. So also, 354 00:25:29.730 --> 00:25:32.329 you know, he talks a good bit about this idea of community, 355 00:25:32.369 --> 00:25:37.240 you know, building community in a business and and why humans yearn for that 356 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:41.680 and they want to know that they're in a good community and actually it helps 357 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.000 to attract a lot more of the right kind of people, the talent, 358 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.029 to come work for your company. So it's not necessarily a marketing or sales 359 00:25:49.150 --> 00:25:56.950 book, as he said, but it directly applies to both fields. Yeah, 360 00:25:56.029 --> 00:26:00.349 and I think I think listeners might be interested in knowing that each chapter 361 00:26:00.390 --> 00:26:03.950 of this book is sort of a self standing chapter. So you could read 362 00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:07.859 this thing in any order that you wanted. and He's got these seven keys 363 00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:10.940 to staying human, of which we've covered a couple, but I think anybody 364 00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:14.299 that maybe read, you know, Simon Senex, start with why, or 365 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:18.569 Daniel Pink's drive, would really, really, really like this particular book because 366 00:26:18.769 --> 00:26:23.650 it's a very human aspect of things. Yes, his one takeaway on this 367 00:26:23.730 --> 00:26:27.609 particular one was you're only as good as you can improve yourself from the people 368 00:26:27.609 --> 00:26:30.930 around you. Right are our success is built on the people around us, 369 00:26:30.930 --> 00:26:33.680 so grow yourself and grow them. And then then one thing he said the 370 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:38.279 listeners could do is this is interesting, is a build a case for the 371 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:42.440 exact opposite thing that you just recommended to your boss. Right, yeah, 372 00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:47.430 we got a job at least. Yeah, fantastic. Right. And so 373 00:26:47.470 --> 00:26:48.869 that's going to give you some understanding. So I thought that was fascinating this 374 00:26:48.950 --> 00:26:52.990 I really enjoyed this book. It was really completely refreshing, easy read and 375 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:56.549 and I think it could have easily been titled Don't let Computers Become leaders, 376 00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:02.579 because it's really focus is quite a lot on leadership and retaining the human element 377 00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:06.099 and management right, in addition to using data. It's a brilliant book. 378 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:08.339 Yeah, as always, I learned a lot from this month's books. They 379 00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:11.019 were all excellence. To tell us what new books you've got coming up on 380 00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:14.980 the marketing book podcast? Well, next time we meet we're going to talk 381 00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:18.210 about five books. The first one is the forever transaction. How to build 382 00:27:18.250 --> 00:27:25.130 a subscription model so compelling your customers will never want to leave, by Robbie 383 00:27:25.130 --> 00:27:30.680 Kelman Baxter, a mine for sales. Daily habits and practical strategies for sales 384 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.599 success by mark honor, your friend and mine, the content fuel framework. 385 00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:42.559 How to generate unlimited story ideas by melanie diesel inked. The ultimate guide to 386 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:49.109 powerful closing and negotiation tactics that unlock yes and seal the deal by JEB blunt, 387 00:27:49.190 --> 00:27:53.029 your friend of mine. And finally, can you hear me? How 388 00:27:53.109 --> 00:27:59.140 to connect with people in a virtual world by Nick Morgan. And that's it 389 00:27:59.299 --> 00:28:02.740 for this month's be to be gross show book talk. To learn more about 390 00:28:02.740 --> 00:28:07.180 the marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book podcastcom and to learn more about James 391 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:11.500 and his excellent book the perfect close, visit pure mirrorcom. That's spelled pure 392 00:28:12.210 --> 00:28:19.009 muirecom. And in the past James and I would talk about our speaking engagements 393 00:28:19.049 --> 00:28:22.569 and I don't have any. They all got canceled. Well, in an 394 00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:29.200 effort to cope with this pandemic, in addition to my weekly marketing book podcast 395 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:33.160 interview, I've started a daily series on the other six days of the week 396 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.720 called authors in quarantine getting cocktails, and what I do is I get on 397 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.589 the line with all the as many of the past guests as will talk to 398 00:28:41.670 --> 00:28:45.589 me, people like James Mure. He took pity on me, and I 399 00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:52.069 talked to them about what's changed, where are they, what's affected them and 400 00:28:52.710 --> 00:28:56.819 what they think is coming up in the future in terms of, you know, 401 00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.380 the new normal, or is this the big reset? And it's just 402 00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:03.740 really interesting and it's a great service to my family, who doesn't want to 403 00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:07.859 have to talk to me all day and I'm able to talk to these authors 404 00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:11.970 and it's become very, very popular with the the listeners and I just I 405 00:29:12.089 --> 00:29:15.849 guess I was doing it for my reasons, to reach out and talk to 406 00:29:15.930 --> 00:29:18.970 people and try and figure this out. And a lot of people are thinking 407 00:29:19.049 --> 00:29:23.130 the same thing. So what about James Mure? Well, of course, 408 00:29:23.130 --> 00:29:26.519 I just got his chance to interview with you on the what. What are 409 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.160 we calling that? The you name is something else. Yes, I did. 410 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.319 So you'll have to listen in if you want to know how I renamed 411 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.279 it. Bobs in quarantine. Something else. Yes, drinking healthy libations, 412 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.390 I think so. Yes, so. Well, not everything is canceled. 413 00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:47.029 We're still hoping that outbound will happen in Atlanta in August. In August, 414 00:29:47.069 --> 00:29:48.630 so we'll see a cross on our fingers on that. Maybe we'll be able 415 00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:53.940 to do that. And then on in September there's relationship marketing grant summit, 416 00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:59.019 which hopefully part of so we will see right across our fingers. Maybe we'll 417 00:29:59.019 --> 00:30:02.779 all be freedom roam around the country by then and and then we'll be back 418 00:30:02.779 --> 00:30:06.619 to normal. But it has been an interesting change. Yes, but I 419 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.250 can tell you this, dear listener, we will be here in about a 420 00:30:10.289 --> 00:30:14.490 month's time. So you can count on that because, frankly, we don't 421 00:30:14.490 --> 00:30:18.609 have to leave our houses to do this. So but, like I mentioned 422 00:30:18.609 --> 00:30:21.599 earlier, if either of US can recommend a specific sales or marketing book or 423 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:25.519 other resource for whatever situation you find yourself in, connect with us on linkedin 424 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:27.480 where we can chat. Please just just connect with us so we can talk 425 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:30.599 to somebody and will do our best to gets you pointed in the right direction 426 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:34.559 and maybe even save you time. And remember, keep learning, because these 427 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:42.910 days the big learners are the big earners. I hate it when podcasts incessantly 428 00:30:44.029 --> 00:30:47.309 ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because 429 00:30:47.309 --> 00:30:51.539 reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's 430 00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:53.180 what we decided to do. If you leave a review for me to be 431 00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:57.660 growth in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James at 432 00:30:57.700 --> 00:31:02.859 Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you assigned copy of my new book, content 433 00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:06.569 based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We 434 00:31:06.690 --> 00:31:08.410 get a review, you get a free book. We both win.
