Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to BB growth. My
name is James Carberry and I'm joining today
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by Timmy Bauer, our content strategist. Timmy and I were just at pizza
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press down the street at lunch and
we were nerding out on something new that
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we are doing with BB growth and
it's around original research. So I've talked
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to Ian Luck in the past about
original research, our friend Andy Krestodina talks
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about original research a ton and we
have just started to do our own original
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research. Timmy is starting to do
original research at his company with his podcast
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books for kids, and so I
was like, man, we should go
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back to the house and just record
how we're thinking about original research, because
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I don't hear anybody talking about original
research in this way and inside I think
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some of the things we're doing are
pretty unique as it relates to using our
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podcast to fuel our original research.
So to me, what, why?
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Why are you jazzed up about this
topic? I guess the biggest reason I'm
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jazzed up about it is the idea
that, because of something I'm already doing,
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like it's already smart for me to
be recording as many episodes as I
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can on books for kids. This
thing that I'm already doing can be an
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engine of creating a really valuable resource
that I can then offer to my the
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ideal people that I need to be
in relationship with from business. Yeah,
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so, I mean we've we run
a lot of experiments and sweet fish.
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We're constantly trying to develop new products, new offerings, and as I evaluate
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what is something that we need to
add into our product mix, you've got
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to think through, okay, what
is the hard cost of this if this
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doesn't work? And so we've done
things in the past where we've had to
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bring on New People into the team, we've created new roles. Obviously,
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your people assets or your most expensive
things that you can invest in. And
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when we thought about this channel,
because we're going to talk about how we're
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actually going to be monetizing the original
research that we do through through our podcast,
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through this podcast, and in doing
so, it's not nearly as much
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of a risk as other new products
that we've brought to market, because it's
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exactly what timmy just said. We're
already doing these interviews. We're already interviewing
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multiple people every single day for this
show. So it's literally just a matter
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of asking a few extra questions after
we've cut the recording, gathering that information,
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putting that data together, pulling insights
from that data and then displaying that
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information in a really nice visual asset. So when you hear US talk about
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original research, essentially what that is, what most people what most companies that
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are doing original research, which actually
there are very few companies, they're really
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doing it, unfortunately, but they're
doing it on an annual basis and they're
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coming up with a list of maybe
twenty to forty questions and they they blast
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their their list, they go and
try to get everybody that they possibly can
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in their target demographic, their target
market, to fill out this two forty
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question survey and then they put that
data together and they package up those insights
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and say, Hey, this is
our annual report on the state of whatever
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it is who, whatever they're starts, the state of customer experience or the
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State of Bebe Marketing or whatever,
and what the what we're doing? That's
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that's different here is, instead of
putting all this data together once a year
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and making this massive push toward getting
everybody to fill out this long questionnaire once
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a year, we're experimenting with doing
this on an ongoing basis and releasing a
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quarterly report every three months and actually
charging for that report. So I think,
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as the time that we're recording this
right now, the thought is,
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you know, it's it's going to
be ninety seven bucks a quarter or three
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hundred bucks for the entire year and
you can get a piece of that research
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for free. So that's how will
market it will get you. Will do
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a lot of paid advertising around say
one question, the answer to one of
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the questions. Will put it in
a nice maybe two. Will package up
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that data in a two or three
page PDF. That's really nice. Well,
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the designed actually shares an actionable insight
from the the question and the data
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that we've collected and will say hey, if you want to know the most
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underrated be tob marketing trend, we
asked a hundred bb marketers what they thought
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it was. Here's the answer.
You sign up, you get that insight
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and then once you've got that,
we now will try to upsell you on
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buying the rest of the report.
For, you know, ninety seven bucks
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a quarter and I'm really excited about
it. Who knows if people buy it
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or not, but it's not a
huge risk for us to do it because
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we've already got designers, we're already
doing all these interviews and package and it's
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so it's just a matter of a
little extra time for the host of BB
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growth, so mostly Dan and and
Logan, and a little bit of extra
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time for our design team to pack
it, you know, to package up
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the data and organize it in such
a way where it's actually a really helpful
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asset for folks. So, as
you're thinking about doing this for yourself,
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to me with books for kids.
You know you for you it's very strategic
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for you to know people that are
organizing literacy events. So, your children's
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book author, you make your money
whenever you go into a school read your
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book and parents of the kids that
you've read to now you send an order
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from home with them. They then
come back the next day and with a
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check or with cash and you sell
your book individually a kids. So not
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a traditional B tob model, but
you've figured out that if I can get
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on stages, if I can get
if I can go and teach at literacy
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events, then teachers go to those
events and I get a swarm of teachers
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that want me to come to their
school and read my book to their kids,
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which is how you make your money
exactly. So you've had to reverse
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engineer how do I actually get on
these stages? And and so you're doing
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content based networking. You've got your
books for kids podcast. You are asking
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these event organizers that are just the
decision makers, the people that can put
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you on their stages. You're asking
them to be on the books for kids
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podcast. You're building genuine relationships with
them and then and you're doing original research
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with them. You're asking these questions. You've figured out what are your ten
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questions that you're going to ask close
to interview and and you're using that to
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build a relational equity with these people
who then are ultimately going to be asking
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you to come and speak at their
events. So why is the original research
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a critical part of that process for
you? Yeah, so originally I was
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just doing original research for this sheer
hey, I'm already talking to these people
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and I know original research is a
thing that people should be doing, so
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I'm just going to start doing it
and then figure out what I'm going to
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do with it. So that's kind
of how it started, and originally a
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big part of it was just content
strategy. I would ask questions that would
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help give me clues as to what
would make good content on the podcast.
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But as I've been doing it,
I've realized, Oh wait a second,
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these the questions that I'm asking.
I'm literally asking questions to teachers, which
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teachers of literacy are the people that
goes that go to these events, and
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I'm asking them what's related to your
role teaching literacy? What's something that you
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what's the last thing you turn to
Google looking for the answer for? And
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it's like that list of things that
they are searching the internet to try to
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find the answers for. would be
so valuable for somebody putting on a literacy
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event to have, yes, to
know that about the people that are coming
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to this event so that then they
can go, okay, we need to
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find speakers that can speak on these
topics. And so I'm like, holy
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cow, this, this is going
to be an asset that I can that
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I can offer to the exact relationship
that I need to have that is genuinely
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valuable for that person. Yes,
so for me it's like holy cow,
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like that was the big Aha moment
that we had a pizza press. I'm
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curious for you what do you think
is the big value? So this a
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two part question. It's like,
what's the big value of BB growth doing
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original research? And then your your
position here is that everyone who's doing a
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BB podcast should be doing original research. So what's the big value for everyone
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that's doing yeah, so. So
one of the big motivators for me is
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I'm trying to to diversify the revenue
that comes into sweet fish and right now
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all of our revenue is coming in
through services. So people are coming to
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us to produce their show or to
cohost one of our shows and it takes
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a lot of people to pull that
off and people are expensive and so your
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margins are small in a service business. And so what I'm trying to do
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is say, Hey, how can
we actually build information products? So we're
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going to start doing some courses,
but I think original research is a is
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a really compelling piece of original research
or a piece of content that people would
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actually pay money for. My friend
Nick Martin actually got me hot on this
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idea a couple weeks ago when we
met up for dinner, and here's it's
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like, man, people will pay
for research, and I think you've got
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folks like Gartner and forester that have
proven that out. They've built entire businesses
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around doing research and then having people
buy that research. And so, because
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we're already doing these interviews for BB
growth every day, we're already talking to
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these people, it really is like
what you said at piece of press earlier
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today. To me it's a missed
opportunity every interview we do where we don't
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ask our post interview original research questions. And so the reason I think everybody
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should be doing it is one even
if you don't plan on monetizing it,
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like if you're not looking to diversify
your revenue, maybe you're a sash product
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and you're like, we're only going
to sell our subscription and to our tool.
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We don't care to diversifier of a
new stream and to sell and to
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have a revenue stream that comes from
information products. That's totally cool. You
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could do this original research and it
could be really great top of fhonal content
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for you. That would allow you
to grow your influence, grow your reach,
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grow your list by getting people to
sign up for your original research.
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That's honestly how most people use original
research right now. They do an annual
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report and they get thirtyzero people to
sign up for it because it's really compelling
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content and cut and information, and
then they are able to repurpose that original
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research into a ton of different content, which will also be doing. But
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I think keeping some of it behind
a pay wall was a big motivation for
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me because I am trying to diversify
a revenue. So that's a big one.
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The reason I think everybody should do
it is because, one, I
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think you can monetize it. I
think you can add enormous value to your
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market by, if you're already doing
these interviews, coming up with a set
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of ten to fifteen rap kind of
like rapid fire questions. I mean some
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of the questions were asking. Just
to give you a an idea of what
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we're asking, it's, you know, what's your all time favorite marketing book?
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Who are the marketing influencers that are
influencing you right now? What's an
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underrated trend and BEDB marketing? What's
an overrated trend or tactic in BB marketing
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that you think's played out? And
then the last question that we ask is
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a really strategic one and it's if
you could ask a hundred of your peers
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in beb marketing leadership. One question. What question would you want to ask?
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And what that question does is it
it constantly gives us new questions to
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add into our mix so that we
can continue to do these quarterly reports on
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are very regular basis and we're not
limited to only doing them annually. But
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we can say, Hey, we're
coming out with new research every single quarter
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because we're already doing this daily podcast
and at the end of every one of
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these interviews with a marketing practitioner,
these are not just thought leaders and authors,
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these are people in the trenches doing
the work. Then we're able to
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get these insights and answers to questions
that they actually want to know of their
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peers, because we're asking that that
question is the final question. So all
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that to say, I think there's
so many strategic benefits to doing this.
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I think anybody with a podcast should
be doing it, and I hope,
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hope, that you're hearing this going
man, we should be doing more interviews
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just for the benefit of the original
research that we can get on the back
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of these interviews. Yeah, absolutely, unless you've got anything more on the
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top of your head about the why
people should be doing this, I'd love
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to drill down and start getting really
practical on the how? Yeah, it's
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probably way simpler than a lot of
people think. Yeah, pretty simple.
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Yeah, I think that there are
a few nuances worth thinking about about it,
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but just to get like super practical. How do you actually do it,
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James? So we first did it
by getting Dan my self in Logan
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on a call to talk through what
are the ten questions that we want to
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ask our ideal customer, which is
a VP of marketing and a BB tech
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company with plus em ploys. That
also happens to be the exact person that
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we interview on our podcast every day. And if you're doing content base networking,
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I think you should be doing the
exact same thing. You should be
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interviewing your ideal customer on your podcast. You should be doing a lot of
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those interviews, and the more you
do, the more opportunities you have to
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do this style of original research we're
going to. So we first came up
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with a list of probably thirty questions
and then we wrestled through. Okay,
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what are the ten that we actually
want to ask? I think we ended
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up landing on twelve, and so
we now have our list of twelve questions
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that we want to ask that we
think are going to be really valuable and
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we have that in a google doc
that each of us keeps on a tab
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on chrome. And so when we
go to do our interviews on Zoom,
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we stop the recording after the interview
and then we say, Hey, would
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you mind if I just asked you
these twelve rapid fire questions? It'll take
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less than five minutes, and and
then we go through those questions. We
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record it separately and then we store
those questions in a trelloboard where it gets
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organized. Once we get to a
hundred response, like a hundred different people
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that we've had on BEV growth that
have answered these questions, which for us,
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because we're doing a daily show,
multiple episodes a day, will likely
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be able to do that in about
sixty days. Will have a hundred responses
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of these twelve answers. will go
through and we'll pick okay, what do
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we want our first original research report
to be about? So we might pick
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out five to seven questions going curate
all that data, will insights from that
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data and have our design team put
that data together into a, I don't
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know, ten to fifteen page report
where we clearly articulate some really valuable points
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of view that we're pulling directly from
the answers that we're getting from these folks.
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Now, one of the things that
you and I talked about, Timmy,
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at lunch was how do you visually
represent this data, because most original
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research, again, like what I
said earlier, is a survey. So
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people are choosing one of eight responses
or there you know, it's ABC or
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D. we're asking free flowing questions, so we're getting people to answer in
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such a way that maybe it doesn't
fit into a box. You actually had
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a really good idea for how you're
going to do this with yours, with
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the literacy report. Can you share
kind of how you're thinking about organizing the
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data, you know, first by
category and then listening the individual responses underneath
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the category? Yeah, this was
just a top of my head idea,
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but I think it's a good one, which is I'm at. One of
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the questions that I'm asking is what
people that teach literacy are going to google
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to try to find the answers for. And what I can do is,
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let's say I've got a hundred different
answers, but I can group thirty seven
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of them under the category of like, how do I convince my school administration
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to be more focused on such and
such initiative? Right, maybe there's thirty
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seven questions that were related to that, or maybe that's too aggressive, but
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as much as I can grouping those
into categories and then, like on the
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next page, actually just have every
one of those questions showcase. Yeah,
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you could also structure your questions that
you're asking post interview for the original research
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in such a way where you give
people options. That's one way to do
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it. Dan On our team is
actually very strongly against that. He wants
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people to give free flowing answers because
he wants to know what they're what they
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would truly say, not being shoehorned
into a specific path, and then on
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the back end we can analyze those
answers and say, okay, they said
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this, we know that they really
mean this, so we can bucket it
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under this category. Another thing you
can do, and this is something that
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I've done when I've forgot to do
my post interview questions, I just send
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an email quickly to the person that
and just say, Hey, we're doing
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this new thing for original research.
I blanked. I forgot to ask you
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the questions after we after we hung
up the zoom call, would you mind
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just shooting a quick loom video and
answering these twelve questions? It'll take you
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less than five minutes. Both Times
I've done that people, they've been more
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than happy to do it. I
think we might actually go back to several
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of our previous guests on bb growth
and just say hey, would you mind
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shooting a quick loom video and answer
these twelve questions for some original research we're
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doing? I don't think we're going
to have a lot of people that don't
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want to be a part of something
like that and and I think it could
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be a way for us to quickly
x. But I getting these responses so
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that we can put this product together
and see if people actually want to buy
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it. But even if they don't
want to buy it, I think it's
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a no lose because even if we
find that people won't pay ninety seven dollars
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or quarter for this report, I
still think people will give us an email
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address for it, which US pivoting
into being a media company. I think
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every company, whether you're a SASS
company or in manufacturing or whatever, I
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think you need to be thinking of
yourself as a media company first, then
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whatever it is you do. We
are actually becoming a media company, so
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it's that much more important for us
to think about growing our own audience and
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get it. The more the more
emails we can collect, the more influence
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we're ultimately going to have, because
we we own the distribution of being able
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to get our content in front of
those people. So makes a lot of
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sense for us to use it for
top of funnel, even if we find
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that people don't necessarily want to pay
for the research. But something you mentioned
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to me that I thought was really
interesting to me was, you know,
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you said, you know, I
want to make this free, but yeah,
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this is a highly valuable resource and
if I make it free, I'm
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worried that people won't really value it
that much. And you know, we
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see that in the BB marketing space
a ton with EBO books, and you
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know, people were enormous amounts of
effort into these things. But when it's
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free, you know, I've got
any book sitting on my Google Chrome right
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now that I download it on Friday. Reality is I'm just not gonna I'm
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not going to read it, like
it's not something that I'm going to consume
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now, had I paid ten bucks
for it, I probably would. What
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are your what are your thoughts are? Well, first of all, our
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IP. Whoever sent you that?
Yeah, out you listening? You know
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who you are. Yeah, that's
the thing that's been my struggle because,
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like, I monetized being a kids
book author by just getting everyone to cooperate
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with me to the point where my
flyers are getting in front of parents.
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I don't need to charge schools.
I don't need to create a barrier of
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me getting into schools by charging the
schools. But the problem that I come
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up against is when I don't charge
for something, it's seen as worthless.
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And so what I think I'm going
to do, and I don't know,
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this could change, but what I
think I'm going to do is charge for
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it and offer it to my content
based networking made friends for free. Yep.
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So I all that to say,
we by no means have the only
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answer for this, but I did
actually have another, one little nuance thing
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that I wanted to bring up.
I didn't know if you sounded like you
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were maybe wrapping up the episode.
Let me interject with this, and this
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is sort of coming at you know, as content strategist. One of the
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things that I think about a lot
is how do we make sure that we're
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getting how do we make sure that
we're teaching people, teaching hosts, to
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get really great content out of guests
that are not used to delivering content on
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a daily basis? In your case, won't you? You benefit a lot
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from being somebody that delivers content regularly
and knowing a lot of people that deliver
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content regularly. When I'm talking to
somebody that's spoken at a literacy event,
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it's pretty easy. But oftentimes I'll
get people recommended to me that our teachers
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and they're like, Hey, you
need to interview so and so, and
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I talked to the teacher and they're
like, what do you want me to
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say on your podcast? I don't
have anything to say. And of course
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the answer that is a different episode
that we need to make, which is
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POB discovery. But how this relates
to original research is I've actually found it
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can be really powerful to do your
original research in the pre interview phase,
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because what I've noticed that it does
is it really warms up the guest.
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So there's this is just something I
would want listeners to think about, which
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is if you've got a cadence where
you book a guest, you do a
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pre interview with that guest and then
you do a recording with that guest.
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I mean first of all that cadence
is a pretty powerful content based networking cadence.
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Yeah, because it makes the relationship
stickier because of all the touch points.
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Yep, that's one great thing about
it. In that pre interview phase,
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when you open up with original research
questions instead of Pov discovery questions,
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you're asking them questions that are pretty
easy for them to answer. That really
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starts warming them up on delivering content. Gives them confidence that they actually do
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have something exactly. And so often
I've pulled Pov content from original research questions
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that then I can double down on
that with hey, when I was asking
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you about what you've googled answers for, you mentioned that you know. Or
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One of my questions is like what's
something you struggle with at the beginning of
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every school year? Right, well, whatever they answered, right, there's
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a good chance that there's some pov
there. For me, when we said
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Pov, we it's point of view. Yep, exactly. Yeah, another
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another way to think about it is
like potentially thought leadership content like something that's
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differ a differentiated point of view,
are very strongly held point of view that's
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not not getting enough air time.
Yeah, yeah, so I've just found
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that doing it in that cadence helps
when you're talking to people that aren't necessarily
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used to delivering content. I think
that's a great point. When you you
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had mentioned me that to me that
a couple weeks ago that you were starting
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to do original research pre interview instead
of post and I think you could absolutely
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do it either way. I hope
that one of the takeaways from this episode
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is you're like, man, these
guys don't really know what the heck they're
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doing there. They're figuring this stuff
out, but there are so many different
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ways that you can slice andise this
stuff and there's no one right way to
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do it. You can monetize it, you cannot monetize it. You can
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do it preinterview, you can do
a post interview. The idea here is
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if you're are especially if you're already
doing a podcast, maybe this convinces you
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that you need to start doing one. But if you are already doing one,
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it's just a missed opportunity not to
build out some infrastructure that allows you
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to do some original research, because
it is a very, very low lift
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to just ask some questions in addition
to the interview that you're already doing with
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this person, and maybe you already
do like a rapid fire part of your
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podcast. Anyway, I think you
could even do original research with content that
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you are already done in your actual
podcast. So even though all of the
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episodes already have the content publicly available, what you're doing is you're going through
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and taking maybe some specific questions that
you've asked and and putting those all together
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and tying a nice little bow on
it and saying, Hey, this was
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original research we've done from our podcast. So you can do it. You
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00:24:06.829 --> 00:24:08.230
can do it gated, you can
do it ungated, you can do it
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from content that's been in your podcast. You can do it. There's so
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many different ways you can win with
original research and hearing Ian Luck talk about
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it, hearing Andy Chrestending to talk
about it, has got me really thinking
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like maybe we need to be doing
something with the original research, and we
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found ourselves doing it in this quarterly
rhythm we are. We're going to be
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charging for it, so I'm sure
you'll be hearing ad spots on this show
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in the next few months getting you
to sign up to to for our BB
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growth report that we're going to be
releasing every quarter. We think it's going
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to be extremely valuable information that every
beb marketer is going to want to know
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and it's going to help us diversify
our revenue stream away from just services revenue.
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So, anyway, take this for
what it's worth. I think if
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you're doing a podcast, you should
absolutely be thinking about original research and how
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you can make this work for your
business. To me. Any any final
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words before we shut this one down? Yeah, this would be my final
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thought, which is, as soon
as this episode is over, this is
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this would be the thing that I
say. You know, do this right
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away. Open up a Google doc
on your phone and type in the question.
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If you could ask a hundred of
your peers one question, what would
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it be? Let that be if
that's the only original research question you can
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think of. Let that be come
a question that you you now ask every
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podcast guest that you interview. Yep, and then for every answer you get
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you can literally just start asking your
asking those set of questions to every podcast
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guest post interviewer pre interview, however
you want to do it, and obviously
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you're not. You don't want to
ask people forty seven questions at the end
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of an interviewer before an interview,
but I would say get to the ten
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to fifteen range where it takes no
more than five minutes for them to answer
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your rapid fire questions. But I
love that point. You can literally start
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with that one. If you wanted
to ask your peers one question, what
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question would you ask? And and
and that that gets you off to the
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racist and doing original research with your
podcast, without doing you know, without
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this massive left I think in my
head, original research has been this thing
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that's like, oh my gosh,
it's got to be this whole project we've
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got to get it's going to be
this huge lift. We've got to somehow
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figure out how to get hundreds and
hundreds and hundreds of people to fill out
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this long survey that nobody wants to
fill out. I think this is a
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expedited way to get to the same
result using something you're already doing. And
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so anyway, connect with Timmy.
He's Timothy Bauer on Linkedin. Yep,
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00:26:32.049 --> 00:26:34.319
it's trying to be bougie on Linkedin
and he can't go by timmy, but
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00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:41.519
connect with with Timothy Bauer on Linkedin. I'm James Carberry, CE R B
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00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.039
Y. Check out the book.
We've mentioned content based networking a few different
381
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.910
times in this episode. If you
haven't already read or listen to the book
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00:26:48.910 --> 00:26:51.750
on audible, make sure to check
that out. We love you a ton.
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00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:57.869
Thank you. See Yeah, for
the longest time I was asking people
384
00:26:57.910 --> 00:27:03.059
to leave a review of BB growth
and apple podcasts, but I realize that
385
00:27:03.259 --> 00:27:07.940
was kind of stupid because leaving a
review is way harder than just leaving a
386
00:27:07.059 --> 00:27:11.819
simple rating. So I'm changing my
tune a bit. Instead of asking you
387
00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:14.579
to leave a review, I'm just
going to ask you to go to baby
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00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:18.329
growth and apple podcasts, scroll down
until you see the ratings and reviews section
389
00:27:18.690 --> 00:27:22.809
and just tap the number of stars
you want to give us. No review
390
00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:26.049
necessary, super easy and I promise
it will help us out a ton.
391
00:27:26.609 --> 00:27:30.799
If you want to copy on my
book content based networking, just shoot me
392
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.160
a text after you leave the rating
and I'll send one your way. Text
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me at four h seven four,
and I know three hundred and thirty two
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00:27:37.000 -->
eight