Build vs Buy | The Journey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth. 2 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:21.320 All right, welcome to the journey here on bTB Growth, where we're documenting 3 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:27.280 our journey of turning this show into every BBB marketers favorite show and hopefully showing 4 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:32.039 you how you can do the same. So, Dan, today we are 5 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:39.880 talking about should you build a media company or buy a media company? We've 6 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:46.399 been talking about this offline a lot. There's a lot of stories about companies 7 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:52.240 that have acquired media companies. Everybody talks about HubSpot acquiring the Hustle. I 8 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:57.520 think we hear a lot about Outreach acquiring sales Hacker. But you've got Penn 9 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:04.159 National Gaming that million dollars buying Barstool Sports. Yet Stripe bought indie Hackers. 10 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:11.319 You guys app here buying maker Pad, Digital Ocean acquired Scotch dot Io. 11 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:17.840 So it's happening. These massive companies are just straight up acquiring audiences, like, 12 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.879 screw this whole, like spending years to build our own media company, 13 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:25.599 We're just gonna go buy it. What do you think whenever you hear this 14 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:30.000 list of companies that are just going out and acquiring audience, I'm glad you 15 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:32.480 were recited like the lists, and there's even more than that, right, 16 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:34.719 because there's like Amazon bought the Washington Post, Like these things are happening, 17 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:38.719 and they've kind of happened before. It's not like acquiring media properties is new, 18 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.879 like Disney acquired ABC like thirty years ago, Like okay, but it's 19 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.799 new for this community, especially since we're we tend to speak to all B 20 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.480 two B companies, but especially a lot of tech companies are listening to this, 21 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:53.680 like this is kind of new to this space, and it's happening way 22 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.040 more than people think. So I tell people this whole time, like media 23 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.239 companies the future, and they're like, oh, okay, so HubSpot acquired 24 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:04.599 the Hustle, Like where else is this happening. It's happening a lot, 25 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:07.080 Like dozens of companies are making this and this is still like a drop in 26 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.800 the bucket compared to like all the smaller acquisitions. These are just the big 27 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:14.919 names acquiring other big names. List right, because I think what we're starting 28 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:19.879 to see is a fundamental change in content marketing. In fact, I like 29 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:24.199 this quote farm dar Mesh from HubSpot right, who said, modern media companies 30 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:30.319 have a software company embedded inside next gen software companies will have a media company 31 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.080 embedded inside, which is says a lot to me, and then he went 32 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:39.280 and did it. HubSpot is like like the freaking poster child of content marketing. 33 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:43.680 Like they had a lot of attention. They rank for every freaking marketing 34 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.560 term there is, right. They have, They've built courses, they've dropped 35 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:52.759 books, they have their own they have multiple podcasts, they have YouTube channels. 36 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:58.400 They're doing all the content marketing. Yet something was missing, something massive, 37 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:01.240 And it's called an audience right, because people were checking in on all 38 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:04.479 those things and kind of being like, oh, that was good things, 39 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:07.319 Oh that was good things. But they didn't have their like undivided attention that 40 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.960 when they dropped something, people are like, oh, when's the next one 41 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:13.919 coming, like the Hustle did, which I was. I was reading the 42 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:15.719 Huspital for a while. I really liked that newsletter, and then eventually I 43 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:20.439 got burned out and just stopped. But I really liked it. Every time 44 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:23.039 it dropped. It had a different affinity. I listened to the Hustle show, 45 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:27.879 their their podcast, the Hustle's Daily Podcast. I listened to it probably 46 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:30.080 three days a week. Maybe it's nice, little bite size I mean, 47 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.919 what helps us to with the podcast network is fascinating. So when we talk 48 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.599 about this though, Dan, you know, obviously these are massive behemoth companies 49 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:43.439 buying other really big media companies, and they're doing that for a reason, 50 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:47.240 right, they have the financials to actually go and do it. But when 51 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.080 do you think it's smarter to try to buy I mean, maybe you don't 52 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.439 have to go buy maker Pad like Zappier did, but you know, we're 53 00:03:55.439 --> 00:04:00.400 obviously trying to build B two B growth. What keeps us from going, 54 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:03.759 Hey, why don't we just try to go secure financing to go by marketing 55 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:09.159 profts or you know, buy exit five, Like, how do you think 56 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:12.520 about that? As we have really honed in on our own strategy to like 57 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.680 we're gonna build BOB growth as opposed to trying to buy something. I mean, 58 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:18.959 one of it just becomes constraints. And it's just when you're when you're 59 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:23.480 taking on a lot of debt to do it, if you're securing financing or 60 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:28.000 your wrench, if you're raising venture capital for it. Right, it's there 61 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:30.480 is massive constraints on how you can run your company at that point because it's 62 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:35.160 well known, like the constraints of of giving away equity brings to your company. 63 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:39.920 In a bootstrap situation, it makes all the sense. But even then 64 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.040 sometimes it makes more sense to even build it, even if you do have 65 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.720 the cash, because you want to pump that cash into things like and building 66 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.759 building your product, and there's just opportunity costs across the business. The other 67 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:56.279 advantage you have in building it is that you just understand your customers better in 68 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.480 the process. If you buy it, well, hopefully you fired a bunch 69 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:02.800 of people that understand your customers better than you do. But if you build 70 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:06.000 it, it's because you know you have to go through the kind of like 71 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:11.240 the painful process of actually knowing what your customers want and need and think about 72 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:15.199 from a content standpoint, which gives you a broader scope than just your tiny 73 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.399 little niche and positioning on your product. You actually have to understand the more 74 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:24.879 holistic picture and place your buyers are playing. Actually feel so grateful that we 75 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:30.240 talk that this podcast that we're talking about on now isn't the BBB podcasting show, 76 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:32.560 it's the B two B Growth Show, and therefore we talk about all 77 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:36.920 things that BBB marketers are interested in, so we have a much better understanding 78 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.480 of what B two B marketers care about because we're producing the content, we're 79 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:46.240 having conversations with them, We're talking to them on LinkedIn, trying to get 80 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.399 the ideas that resonate with them. So we have a much better understanding of 81 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:53.399 our buyer, which then makes it easier to actually build a product around the 82 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:58.000 buyer rather than building it in the shop and then saying here it is right. 83 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:00.199 So there's a massive advantage and the intimacy you gain with your customer that 84 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.480 way. So that's one major reason why you would want to build it rather 85 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:09.120 than just buying it out right buying it. One thing that I've observed just 86 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.680 in my own as I assess what I have affinity toward. You know, 87 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.040 I listened to the Hustle Daily Show three or four days a week. When 88 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.319 I listen to that show, I don't think I necessarily I mean, they 89 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:25.000 talk about HubSpot because Hubspots position is like a sponsor of the show, even 90 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:30.079 though they own it. I don't know that I necessarily like feel affinity toward 91 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:32.800 HubSpot. I look at HubSpot like, oh, that was really smart what 92 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:36.360 they did, Like they took a format, they took host talent, they 93 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:42.600 took an ingredient that's already working. But I questioned, I'm like, man, 94 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.759 do I feel affinity toward HubSpot or does it just feel like they're a 95 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.759 sponsor of this show when it would have been cheaper for them to just buy 96 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:54.959 up a bunch of ad slots on this show as opposed to acquiring the whole 97 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:59.040 thing. But when I think about what you do when you acquire a media 98 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:03.600 company, you're bringing that talent in house so that now you're like starting to 99 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:09.800 shape your culture around. Now we're we're going to start thinking like a media 100 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:14.079 company, And we just accelerated that process by probably three or four or five 101 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.600 years by going and bringing one that's already figured this stuff out in so that 102 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:23.040 it can infuse and and like start to shape our culture to be a culture 103 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.439 of folks that know how to do this. So I'm really interested to see 104 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:29.199 how the next three or five years play out for HubSpot, because I think 105 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.240 going out and acquiring a media company that got bringing it in the long term 106 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.360 benefit is, like I mean, the short term benefit is obviously the the 107 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:40.839 immediate audience of the shows that the media properties that already existed, You now 108 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:45.160 own that immediate audience. But I think there's a lot of power in in 109 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.680 the talent that you bring in so that it can shape your ability to actually 110 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:54.759 replicate what they did to get successful. And now you know how to do 111 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:58.759 that. It's it's in your DNA as an organization, and it doesn't happen 112 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:01.240 instantly. And I don't think we've you know, yea, with HubSpot, 113 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.720 but I think they're getting there. I think there's another point to be made 114 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:09.759 to around buying a media company and that you can actually acquire a business model 115 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:16.360 that's already working. Like imagine having a whole content marketing arm that pays for 116 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.360 itself. Right, So when they bought the Hustle, yes, they forked 117 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.639 over you know, tens of millions of dollars for it, but the Hustle 118 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:31.040 is profitable yea. So now they just bought this marketing engine that's a self 119 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:37.279 contained unit that they get essentially free marketing from imperpetuity. Right, this thing 120 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.879 continues to advertise for it, and they don't have to pay for it again 121 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:43.120 because they have other sponsors and other advertising going into it. So that kind 122 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.120 of makes a big difference. You just bought a little marketing machine and it's 123 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:50.440 a one time fee, one time fee for unlimited marketing. Fantastic, It's 124 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.960 kind of nice. Yeah, I do love the I mean, that's that's 125 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.480 something again we've been talking about a lot offline. Is this idea of you 126 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.000 know that this is the direction we're going and sweet fish, I mean, 127 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.480 we want to eventually be able to help companies not just build branded shows, 128 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:11.039 but we want to help them like put a media asset into their business that 129 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:16.480 has independent value, independent of their company, and something that pays for itself 130 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.360 over a four to thirty six months window, like it pay us to build 131 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:26.519 this media property for you, and we know that over amount of time this 132 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.919 thing is is going to end up paying for itself and then some so it 133 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.960 becomes a profit center instead of a cost center. And that's the whole I 134 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.360 mean, Joe Politzy has been talking about that with his book Killing Marketing, 135 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:41.159 and this idea that your marketing can actually be self sustaining is fascinating to me. 136 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:46.320 But that's an element of like the building a media company conversation that I 137 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.240 don't I'm not hearing a lot of people talking about it that way, but 138 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.679 it's certainly a problem that we're trying to figure out and trying to solve B 139 00:09:54.759 --> 00:10:00.120 two B growth will be right back. There are a lot of questions on 140 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.679 marketers minds right now, and analyzing the latest trends can be a full time 141 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.720 job in itself. Can an a R filter really improve brand awareness? Why 142 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:13.159 are streaming ads so allowed? 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But that's an element of like the building a media company 150 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:52.000 conversation that I don't I'm not hearing a lot of people talking about it that 151 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.600 way, but it's certainly a problem that we're trying to figure out and trying 152 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.480 to solve. Yep, And when you talk about building a media company, 153 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:01.200 and this is what we're hitting with B two B growth is that it's just 154 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:05.279 because you're building it doesn't mean it's free. No, it kind of requires 155 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:11.480 investment in staffing or hiring an agency to help you produce it. Either way, 156 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.440 it's gonna cost you money. But sometimes it's like, do you have 157 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:16.039 enough money to be able to pay tens of millions of dollars for it? 158 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.840 Maybe? Maybe not. But if you don't, then are you willing to 159 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.200 invest forty k into it a month in order to build it to that point 160 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.240 and grow with it organically? It's take it's a little bit of a longer 161 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.320 road. But again, like I said before, there's some advantages of doing 162 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.840 it yourself and the learnings you get in doing it. And of course there's 163 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.799 lots of companies like like sweet Fish, but other companies like consultants that have 164 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.440 done it before, so you can you can go and acquire essentially talent yourself 165 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.639 and start building it from the ground maybe somebody who's done it before, right 166 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.799 if you wanted to do it in house. So there's a couple different ways 167 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:52.799 to go about it. Like I even heard that the Record, you know, 168 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.559 just when hired some journalists that knew what they were doing and just started 169 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:01.320 putting together the Recorded Future. No, I think it it's um the Recorded 170 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:05.159 Future, put together the record right, which is the media property, and 171 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:09.519 just have a handful of journalists writing stories that matter to cybersecurity, and it's 172 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:16.759 become a really niche but favorite website news site for cybersecurity professionals. So I 173 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:18.120 think a lot of people are going to start doing this, And there's even 174 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.279 a whole movement around before you even launch a product, you build an audience 175 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.080 first, right, I mean this is becoming a more well known play across 176 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.159 famous influencers like The Rock and Mr Beast and stuff. Build the audience first, 177 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.200 and then you can launch whatever products you want. So there's an audience 178 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:37.960 first movement taking place amongst creators and soon you're gonna that's gonna eventually make its 179 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.200 way over into B two b um where these creators are just going to launch 180 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:45.039 companies to their massive audiences. Shoot, Ran Fishkin did already was Spark Carrow. 181 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:48.039 They don't have a marketing budget. They just use marked Rand Fishkin's existing 182 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:52.919 audience and uh fame essentially to build that company. When they hired an influencer 183 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.679 in the marketing space, Amanda not at Dad, I think, who was 184 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:01.600 already very influential with Marketer, and so they brought her on as the marketing 185 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.559 leader. So they have some symblance of a working budget. I don't know 186 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.799 if she's a team of one or if she's got a little team, but 187 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.240 you know they're they're a small but mighty I mean they're punching way about their 188 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.519 way you think about base Camp. Base Camp doesn't get talked about a lot 189 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:16.879 in this in this way, but they're I mean, the blog posts that 190 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.759 they're that they are founders, I mean made them famous. I've actually got 191 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:26.360 a call with their CEO later this afternoon, and I'm really excited about they 192 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:31.279 came inbound and I'm excited to like, I don't know what they built from 193 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:35.320 a from attention amassing machine. I mean, they're like a fifty person company 194 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:41.759 and millions of people know about base camp yep. And it's funny. I've 195 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:43.879 never read their blog posts, but I have because I've read their books, 196 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.039 which are literally just their blog post readpackaged into a book. Um, and 197 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.440 it was freaking amazing, amazing. They're amazing books that they've written. More 198 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.080 than one now they've read both of them. So this is becoming a thing, 199 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.159 and I want to talk about more about how we're doing it, because 200 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:01.600 this is the journey we talked about behind the scenes and how we're doing this. 201 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:03.440 We're lucky, I guess we're kind of a rare case where an agency 202 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:09.600 who actually has done what we proclaim our customers should do with bTB growth. 203 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:13.039 We actually have this show, we actually have an audience, so we're not 204 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.639 starting from scratch, which is kind of nice. We're branching off into building 205 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:22.240 something bigger. But we want to take it from more than just this podcast 206 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.559 and actually make it into a full robust media property. But obviously it's very 207 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.279 podcast focused on the in the beginning, and that's how we're planning on doing 208 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.879 this now. Luckily, like there's enough downloads happening to this show that we 209 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.840 can even begin monetizing it and actually using some of that revenue support other initiatives. 210 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:43.279 But we want to launch into more focused social media, a newsletter soon 211 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.960 and blogs, lots of blogs that are ranking for s c O in a 212 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:52.600 way that actually isn't commodity content, is actually useful, helpful expertise, so 213 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.480 that it becomes a more robust media property in and of itself. What do 214 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:00.559 you think, James, when you as we're building this proper pretty what are 215 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:03.799 the things that get you the most excited about building turning BDB growth from just 216 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:07.679 a one one channel show into multiple shows? And what are some things that 217 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.759 like you're like thinking of you need to be careful of as you as we 218 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:16.519 grow this property. Man, That's that's a great question. I think we've 219 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:18.759 got to be careful about getting stale. I was just talking to somebody last 220 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:26.000 night about the importance of continually like, you know, adding new or somebody 221 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:31.559 my my friend called this content franchises yesterday in a conversation. You're constantly like 222 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.679 coming, like, what what's a new content franchise or a new series or 223 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.440 a new like I think variability matters a lot when it comes to affinity building. 224 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.679 And you know, you look at what drift Bit did whenever they were 225 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:48.720 you know, dominating the B two B marketing conversation. Uh, and they 226 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:52.679 were doing these like marketing splashes every month. I've heard Dave Gearhard talk about 227 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:56.960 this and how he was intentional to create these these splashes, And I think 228 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:00.480 I don't want us to just like kind of Okay, we've figured out what 229 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.679 our three content franchises are. With Bob Growth, we kind of get in 230 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.720 this rot and we don't continue to innovate, We don't continue to to think 231 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.279 creatively about how we can make a splash for the show in the minds of 232 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:15.679 our buyers. And so that's that's one thing that I think we've really got 233 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.399 to be careful of of avoiding. Um, what was your other question? 234 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.679 Dam what are you that is what you're looking forward to? But what are 235 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.840 you looking forward to? Like the things that get you excited about doing it 236 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.039 this way? I think it's just the opportunity to really control the narrative. 237 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.399 And when you own the audience, you get to control the narrative. And 238 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:38.080 so as B two B Growth grows and we start to have more and more 239 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:44.039 attention than you know, our story of of the importance of building affinity, 240 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:51.360 the importance of obliterating commodity content from your marketing strategy becomes the centerpiece of conversation 241 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.720 and becomes what our buyers are talking about in their boardrooms and talking about on 242 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:59.240 their you know, on their all hands. And I think that's such a 243 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.840 powerful place to be. Like when when you get to control the narrative of 244 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:07.400 an industry, or at least shape maybe not control controls, probably a little 245 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.640 bit too aggressive war, but you get to shape what people are talking about. 246 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:14.799 I've seen it. I mean I'm seeing it literally happened with Chris Walker, 247 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.319 like he is. He is shaping the narrative and B two B marketing 248 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.599 right now because he's he's played this playbook and he's got really really good insights. 249 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:26.880 So I love so much about this. It's like we look in two 250 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.720 or three years at Bob growth and and kind of where we've where we've gone. 251 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.960 It's did we have quality insights? Did we truly add value to the 252 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.799 market in the content that we're sharing? And if we didn't, that's gonna 253 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.319 show up. It's gonna be pretty painstaking obvious, like, hey, we 254 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.720 we are not anywhere close to where we thought we'd be, and so we've 255 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.240 got to reassess. And so I think going back to like mistakes where things 256 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.400 that we should avoid. I think we've constantly got to be critiquing ourselves and 257 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.480 asking ourselves after we record episodes like this, like hey, where did that 258 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.400 miss? Hey we rambled a little bit here, We could have probably been 259 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.400 a little bit tie her in our prep. Man, this episode felt a 260 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.480 little flat. We didn't you know, we just when we were recording early 261 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:07.519 today, I was like, man, that it just didn't feel like there 262 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.240 was a lot of energy there. Tweaking the way we're doing intros and outros 263 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.079 and and trying to inject more personality into it and just constantly evolving. I 264 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.079 mean, that's that's the game. That's why I love business. It's just 265 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.519 this constant evolution. It feels like every week we're doing something in the business 266 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.279 and I'm slapping myself in the head, going, how the hell is it 267 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.240 taking a seven years to figure this out? But that's I've said that to 268 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:33.119 myself so many times. At this point, it's like it's the evolution of 269 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:37.920 the game. Like you learn, you get better, you keep pushing forward, 270 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.359 and and that's so much of the joy of this is in that, 271 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.559 and I don't ever want to lose that. One of my favorite parts about 272 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.680 actually building a media company is that there's like never an end to like things 273 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:49.759 that you need to try, But in the media company you can try, 274 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.000 and gosh, dang it, if the blog post doesn't hit, it doesn't 275 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.160 hit, that's okay. Tomorrow is a new day, let's post a new 276 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.680 block. You know, it's kind of like if it doesn't slap on LinkedIn, 277 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.359 that's okay, it's gone. It's not even gonna be seen by a 278 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.079 lot of people, like they didn't make it. That's okay. You just 279 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.319 keep trying new stuff, and then of course you start to get some attention 280 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.240 on things and you double down on that and ride that wave. You know, 281 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:11.920 if you have something that works really well, you write it for the 282 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.359 season as long as you can, and then it starts to lose momentum. 283 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.119 But you have to find that. It's kind of like writing waves. I 284 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:19.519 like that analogy. All the times you always have to be finding the next 285 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.279 rate wave to ride. But in immediate company, you kind of get a 286 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:27.160 lot of that bats to test it in your social and your emails and then 287 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.519 your podcast shows, in your YouTube videos. If you're going in that route. 288 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.720 By doing it ourselves, we get to ride the waves with our customers, 289 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:37.400 and like I said in the beginning, you build that intimacy because you're 290 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.640 you're in the trenches with them trying to figure out what's what's working, what's 291 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.240 not. Usually creators are much better at this. The solo creators, But 292 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.720 I think businesses can be just as good at it. You know, if 293 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:51.279 you have a couple of really good people, like two three four people in 294 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:52.759 the company that are kind of trying to figure this out all the time and 295 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:57.119 are experimenting a lot, just like solo creators do, especially on the B 296 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.279 two B two C side, right like the Mr beasts that are always kind 297 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.440 of experimenting, obsessed with what's what's going to hit, what's going to work, 298 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.880 what's going to capture and retain people's attention. So that's what I'm honestly 299 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.880 so excited about. Dan with you saying that makes me think about how we've 300 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.640 you know, the construction of our marketing team. You know, We've got 301 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.920 Benji here, he's you know, producing this series in the background. But 302 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:22.880 we've got Emily Brady who's on maternity leave right now, but she gets back 303 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:27.160 in December. She's gonna be focused on her newsletter and on social Emily thinks 304 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:32.240 like a creator. Benji thinks like a creator. You think like a creator. 305 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:36.440 I am thinking more and more like a creator, and I think creating 306 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:41.440 that culture of kind of creator thinking in our marketing team is what actually is 307 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:47.920 gonna propel us into building a media company and building a legitimate media property and 308 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:51.480 B TWOB growth that, regardless of what happens with sweet Fish, GDP growth 309 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:56.160 is going to have independent value of sweet Fish in a few years because of 310 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.559 the effort, the way we've staffed it, the way we're the way we're 311 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.599 approached building it. We're taking the marketing out of our content and we're just 312 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.559 trying to be as helpful as we possibly can to B B marketers. Yep. 313 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.599 And that's the way that's their approach we're taking is hiring people to have 314 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:15.640 more of a creator bent that understand marketing UM so we can have really understand 315 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.200 what we're talking about when it comes to B two B marketing, right, 316 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.000 And of course there's different routes. Some people are just scooping up the people 317 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.359 that already have audiences and slapping their logo on their T shirts because they're paying 318 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:30.000 them a huge salary, right like Stream is with a lot of um dev's 319 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:34.079 developers. Right, they're hiring people who have YouTube audience, TikTok audience, 320 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:38.519 blog audience and just making them part of the Stream team, and then they 321 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.799 marketing is funding their salaries it's a great mode. That's how they're doing it. 322 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.799 So there's so many ways to build the audience. This is just the 323 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.799 way that we're doing it here in BDB Growth by building it all around the 324 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:53.839 BBB Growth Show dot Com with multiple channels reaching out there. So I'm excited 325 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:56.759 to see where this goes. And hopefully this has been in a helpful episode 326 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.200 As we're talking about how others are doing it a firing some are building it 327 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:04.039 differently than us. This is how we're building it internally by doing these kinds 328 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.559 of episodes. Hopefully it's giving you some insight into how we're thinking about this 329 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:12.920 and processing it. Yeah. Alright, So so that's it for today's episode 330 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:18.160 of the Journey. Join us next week we're gonna be talking about a very 331 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:23.720 provocative topic in gating content. Dan's got some hot takes on gating content. 332 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.240 We're gonna be We're gonna be talking about that next week. Remember, there 333 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:33.279 are a lot of ways to win. Commodity content is the enemy, focus 334 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:38.119 on affinity over awareness. You can find all things BDB Growth at GDP Growth 335 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:42.640 Show dot Com. Make sure to connect with us on LinkedIn's Dan Sanchez, 336 00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:59.839 myself, James Carberry, We're out. B two B Growth is brought to 337 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:02.559 you by the team at sweet Fish Media. Here at sweet Fish, we 338 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.200 produce podcasts for some of the most innovative brands in the world, and we 339 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.880 help them turn those podcasts into micro videos, LinkedIn content, blog posts, 340 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.480 and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. Want 341 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:23.519 more information, visit sweet Fish media dot com.