June 17, 2022

Building a Networking Group that Actually Adds Value, with Rob Volk

In this replay episode, we talk to Rob Volk, Founder at Foxbox Digital.

In this replay episode, we talk to Rob Volk, Founder at Foxbox Digital.
Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:13.320 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:21.960 Hey friends, welcome into Friday's show. Excited to share a throwback conversation with 3 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:26.280 you today, one we had with Rob Volk on building a networking group that 4 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.879 actually adds value. Wanted to say we've had a tremendous week here on be 5 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:35.479 tob growth and if you've missed any of the episodes, man go back through 6 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:41.439 the feed and take a listen. We're talking everything from effective wind loss interviews 7 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:47.479 structuring a modern marketing team and actually guy ton Ol Danardy on yesterday show was 8 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:52.920 talking about just the nuances as he's left be to be in Ben Indeed to 9 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:58.640 see and what he's seen and learned there, as well as a great conversation 10 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:04.319 with Gong's very own Devon read around authenticity, how to be yourself on Linkedin, 11 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:08.680 on social and how to go left when be tob is going right, 12 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:14.879 finding your unique voice, and Emily Brady as well here from sweet fish. 13 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.879 She broke down a piece that she's put together from Gen Z to be to 14 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:23.840 be Tick Tock strategy for your brand. So lots of just quality content and 15 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:30.519 conversation. Don't want you to miss any of it and and so we'll be 16 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.200 sure to check it out, and you can always search by topic over on 17 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:40.840 the sweet fish website. All Right, today the feature conversation building a networking 18 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:48.959 group that actually adds value with Rob Volk. Let's jump in. Welcome back 19 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.000 to be to be growth. I'm your host for today's episode, Logan Lyles, 20 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:55.439 with sweet fish media. I'm joined today by Rob Volk. He is 21 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:59.079 the founder over at Fox box digital. Rob Height doing today? Sir? 22 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.719 Hey, looking to do great. Thanks, awesome. Hopefully you're recovering well 23 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:05.799 from your ski trip out my way in Colorado right. Oh, man, 24 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.199 it was amazing. I am sort of happy to be back. Yeah, 25 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:14.199 absolutely, Man, awesome. Well, ROB, we're going to be talking 26 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:21.639 about some strategies that you've really employed to grow your network and specifically build executive 27 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.080 relationships that have contributed to the growth of your business, and breakdown some of 28 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:30.120 the ways that you've done that effectively over the years. Before we jump straight 29 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.319 into that, though, rob I would love for you to give listeners a 30 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:37.840 little background on yourself, besides being a skier, and a little bit about 31 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:40.280 what you and the team at Fox box digital or up to these days. 32 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:44.479 Yeah, thanks, so. I mean, in short, I love building 33 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.639 software. So I've been a software developer my whole life and sort of took 34 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:53.199 that, did a lot of consulting and then jumped into the startup world really 35 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:55.599 learned how to build new products, you know, from scratch using, you 36 00:02:55.639 --> 00:03:01.120 know, newer, modern techniques, and then they're decided to take that to 37 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:06.879 larger companies and created Fox box digital. Awesome. And tell us a little 38 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:09.159 bit about what you guys do, kind of the niche that you guys serve. 39 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:12.599 What are you guys working on these days, Rob yes, so we 40 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:16.840 focus on building mobile and Web APPs, using technology called react native on the 41 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:22.120 mobile front, which really allows us to create a cross platform APP, create 42 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:24.560 the IOS and ANDROID APP at the same time with the same codebase, and 43 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:30.560 really just leads to a really efficient process but a really killer product at the 44 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:34.879 end. Nice. I love that faster development of android APPs. Just on 45 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:38.080 a personal note, I'm probably one of the few android users on our team 46 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:42.639 and I catch some flak for it, but I'm always like the IOS APP 47 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:45.719 is out for this Wednesday, android APP coming out. It drives men. 48 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.120 Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, these days you can't just release the 49 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.159 IPHONE APP and so for all of our clients, we release the ANDROID and 50 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:55.360 iphone at the same day. Very cool, I love it. Awesome. 51 00:03:55.400 --> 00:04:00.599 Well, Rob let's jump into the the topic today, and really, you 52 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:05.479 know, that's growth through executive relationships and building your network with the folks that 53 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:10.439 that really can can help you and and you can help you know, I 54 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:15.560 know a lot of marketers don't necessarily love the word networking, but I think 55 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:17.360 if we unpack it, you know, just talking with you a little bit 56 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:23.600 offline before we hit record, you very much approach networking in the way that 57 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:27.399 we think about it, in that it doesn't have to be this, Hey, 58 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:30.360 I'm sizing you up to give you my pitch later, the those sorts 59 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:32.759 of things. So tell us a little bit about the way you've gone about 60 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:36.720 this. Really kind of the center is a monthly breakfast that you started several 61 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:42.079 years ago. Right, yeah, absolutely. So, first of all, 62 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:45.600 I didn't even know this is marketing, and this is all accidental in that 63 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:48.600 I didn't. I didn't create this breakfast group in order to, you know, 64 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.519 create a consulting business, because I did it two and a half years 65 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:56.279 before I created the consulting business. But effactively, what I did was. 66 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.839 I was talking about my friend Karen, and we were both tech leaders of 67 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.240 small startups and you know, as a leader of a company, you don't 68 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:06.680 have anyone who you can talk to when you have issues, right, and 69 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.879 it's usually not about the technology, it's about the softer side, like managing 70 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:14.480 people and issues like that. So we got together and we figured that, 71 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:16.639 you know, there's probably others of the same issue, and so we created 72 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:23.959 a monthly breakfast where we get together and we discuss a topic around managing people, 73 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.680 around your growing businesses, growing technology, stuff like that. And Yeah, 74 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:30.120 it just sort of grew from there. We about seventy five members right 75 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.040 now and we meet every month. I Love It, rob I love the 76 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:36.920 genuine nature of where this came out of. One of the ways you described 77 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:42.560 it to me in a previous conversation was really it's founders therapy, right, 78 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:46.480 is something that it's kind of become, right. Yeah, that's absolutely right. 79 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:49.920 We basically get together and have an opportunity to be really open and honest 80 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:56.040 in a private and setting where we can discuss the issues that we have on 81 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.279 a daytoday. And you know, it's usually it's usually something that you don't 82 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.000 have an out with otherwise I love that. A few months ago I read 83 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:09.199 a book called the introverts edge and it was talking about, you know, 84 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:14.160 business owners and founders really kind of getting thrust into the sales roll and not 85 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.439 necessarily being ready for that because they are an expert. They launched their business 86 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:20.839 because they were an expert, you know, in their field. And it 87 00:06:20.839 --> 00:06:26.519 sounds like tackling kind of the same issue from other aspects is what you know, 88 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:29.879 you started to do with building this group, because you know, founders 89 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:32.959 are you know, they're great at the tech or different aspects, whatever they're, 90 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:36.800 you know, their specialty is. And then all these other things come 91 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:41.639 with actually building a business, right, the soft skills of managing people and, 92 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.800 you know, different financial aspects and all those sorts of things, and 93 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:48.199 so finding people that are going through the same things, I think is is 94 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:53.319 really smart. Tell me a little bit about how it started to organically growt 95 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:57.879 did you say you guys are up to seventy five regular attendees at these monthly 96 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.399 breakfasts now? Yeah, so there's seventy five people in the group, but 97 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:06.319 any given breakfast will have about twelve. Okay, so yeah, but we 98 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:10.600 have a very active flag channel and so you know, it's sort of grown 99 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:15.000 like that. It's just grown organically, where you know one member will bring 100 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:16.800 a friend, a CTEO friend of theirs, and so are. Our group 101 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:23.759 consists of mostly cteos of small startups from, you know, just single founder 102 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:29.959 to founders up to you a hundred person company. Today's gross story revolves around 103 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:34.240 search engine marketing. Delphis, a big data platform, had hired an agency 104 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:38.680 to manage their Google adds a few years ago, but they weren't seeing the 105 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:43.079 results they wanted to see. Being such a technical be tob solution, they 106 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.399 set out to find a team that could take on their challenge. After countless 107 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:51.560 proposals, they found the perfect fit directive consulting, the B Tob Search Marketing 108 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:58.680 Agency. And just one week after launching directives campaigns, delphis saw their lead 109 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:03.920 volume double and their costper lead drop by sixty percent. I have a hunch 110 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.240 that directive can get these kind of results for you to, so head over 111 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:16.079 to directive consultingcom and request a totally free custom proposal. That's directive consultingcom. 112 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:20.959 All right, let's get back to this interview. I love it. So 113 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.000 tell us a little bit, rob, as this started to gain some some 114 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:28.279 formality after it was just, you know, you and the first friend that 115 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.120 you started having breakfast with. What are some of the things that you guys 116 00:08:31.159 --> 00:08:37.120 started to do to provide some structure to make sure that this was valuable, 117 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:41.320 because obviously more people are joining in. Obviously, you know, every all 118 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.399 of the seventy five folks that are, you know, apart can't make it 119 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.480 all the time, but you've got people regularly showing up to this. So 120 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.480 there must be something that you're doing outside of, you know, like we 121 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.039 said, what people typically, you know, have the negative connotations with networking. 122 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.200 That's actually delivering some values. So I would love to hear you know 123 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.679 kind of how that has grown organically as well how you structured it to make 124 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:09.440 it valuable for folks that keep coming and showing up to these conversations. Yeah, 125 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.480 so we we do a few things. So we start with we start 126 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:18.039 the breakfast with thirty minutes of just really unstructured you get to chat with the 127 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.360 person next to you and just and just kind of honestly wake up. It's 128 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.279 thirty in the morning. I'm not a morning person. So we get some 129 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:26.559 coffee in us, we get a little loose and we reach out with each 130 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.440 other and then as soon as twenty minutes come around, we take orders and 131 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.440 then we start a structured topic. And so we're sitting around in a you 132 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:37.679 know, a long table, twelve people in it, and we have one 133 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:43.440 topic of discussion and then we have we just have a natural, cordial conversation 134 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.759 where people aren't talking over each other, people are not on the phones and 135 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.360 we all just engage in this conversation together, and then that's and that's one 136 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.360 topic for the whole breakfast. Then it'll naturally kind of fade out and then 137 00:09:54.360 --> 00:10:00.360 we pay the bill and take off. I love it so with with busy 138 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.840 founders and ctos, you have to have a phone basket by the end of 139 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.120 the table or something like that where people have to have to leave them or 140 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.519 as just kind of standing rule for breakfast. You know, it's interesting that 141 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:16.759 no, we don't and we we don't have any specific rules on it and 142 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.360 of course occasionally people will take out their phones, but it's never been an 143 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.679 issue or distraction and I don't know how, because usually, you know, 144 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.960 I've had conversations with with Karen, my cofounder of this breakfast, and he 145 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.200 was looking at his Apple Watch and response of your text message and then looking 146 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:33.039 up at me, I'm like cure, and you're not. You're not engaged 147 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.639 with me at all. So now, luckily, we have not to do 148 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.320 that. Yeah, I think we've all been there and I think that goes 149 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.320 to the quality of the the group that you've built in, the quality of 150 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.000 the conversation that people have become accustomed to. That you know, and I 151 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.559 think the lesson there, whether you're a founder or a marketer, is when 152 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.679 you're building community, if you focus on genuine connections, which you know you 153 00:10:54.679 --> 00:11:00.159 guys allowed the conversations to start. Naturally give some time for people to wake 154 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.960 up, if they need one or two cups of coffee to get going, 155 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:09.399 and it happens organically and then there's valuable conversation. Then people tend to to 156 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:11.080 and out other things. It's when we're sitting in those, you know, 157 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:15.879 death by power point meetings where, you know we can't avoid that twitch to 158 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:20.039 look at our phones. So tell us a little bit more about how you've, 159 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.759 you know, structured engagement with this group outside of the breakfast itself. 160 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.960 One of the things you mentioned is a slack channel. We've started to do 161 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:33.039 this with guests that we've had on on this podcast on bb growth and some 162 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:37.519 of our guest co hosts as well. I love the way slack is is 163 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.000 able to kind of be that, you know, I know if it's technically 164 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:43.399 a dark social network or if you'd you'd label it that way, but you 165 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:48.600 know, another kind of mini social network. Have you guys been had that 166 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.600 active channel for a while or is that something that's come up recently in kind 167 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.879 of the evolution of this networking group? Yeah, so slack came up maybe 168 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:58.840 a year, year and a half ago. You know, slack was, 169 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.240 you know, gaining popularity and really I think that we discovered that we needed 170 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.159 to, you know, chat outside of this group and you know, once 171 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.840 a month is great to discuss some you know, burning topic, but a 172 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.440 lot of times we need help with little things. Hey, I need to 173 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.279 hire an is developer, I need to find a designer, and so just 174 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.320 this is a forum for those sorts of conversations to happen, and I describe 175 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.799 it as a private social network. So we have a private channel that you 176 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:30.519 have to be invited to and one thing that's that's important is that it's not 177 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.480 too big. So seventy five people sounds like a lot, but of course 178 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.080 not everyone's engaged and so it's a we have a healthy amount of discussion on 179 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.559 there. We had discussed actually merging this with another competing group. There's no 180 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:46.080 I really harsh competition here, but another competing group and they wanted to potentially 181 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.799 merge with us, but we didn't want to get too big. So I 182 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:52.759 think the size is important and organic growth is important, because if we doubled 183 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:58.080 in size then it would change the whole dynamic. HMM. Yeah, absolutely. 184 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:03.159 I think you're very smart to be mindful of that and and I love 185 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.480 that idea of you know, we're bringing people together to be able to talk, 186 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.840 to share ideas, to ask questions, to commiserate at times and just 187 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:16.080 be you know, like you said, founders therapy or marketers therapy or whatever 188 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.080 group that you're building, the community that you're building. But having that slack 189 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:26.720 channel allows for those quick questions that can really accelerate things and save you from, 190 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.559 you know, getting deep down a rabbit whole of a Google search or 191 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.320 something on a specific topic or trying to find the right person. So being 192 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.080 able to Ping your network very quickly and very efficiently. I think that's a 193 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:41.840 great layer on top of this regular, you know, in person event. 194 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:46.159 Is there anything else, any other form of communication that you guys have now 195 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:50.320 developed with this group that have helped you, you know, kind of boiled 196 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.600 down what you guys have been talking about or bring up, you know, 197 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:58.360 certain topics that are kind of rising to the surface amongst these conversations? Yes, 198 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.600 so, in order to pick the topic, we pulled the group beforehand 199 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:05.039 and we just asked he who's got a real issue they're facing right now, 200 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.720 so that the question we like to ask is what are you struggling with? 201 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:13.000 And I think that's important, important question, because it gets to you know, 202 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.519 it gets gets sort of emotional, it triggers an emotional response and so, 203 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.120 you know, if someone's actually struggling with something, they'll bring it up 204 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.279 as a topic and if it sounds like a great topic and others agree, 205 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.039 well then that's that's how we decide what we're going to talk about. I 206 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.759 love it. So you guys just send out an email, like shortly after 207 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.320 the last breakfast, pinging people for, you know, the topic for the 208 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.240 next one, and then do they just respond or you give them a google 209 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.320 form? How do you guys kind of structure it? Yeah, I wish, 210 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.279 I wish we were that structured with it. It's really kind of an 211 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.039 ad hoc process, but we yeah, you know, we have we host 212 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:46.279 a breakfast, we wait a couple weeks and then we kind of get this 213 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:52.360 feeling that maybe we should plan the next one. That peopling keeps coming on. 214 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.919 Exactly. Yeah, I love it. Awesome, rob anything else you 215 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:01.559 guys are doing? I think you mentioned, like gay, a quarterly email 216 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.519 that you guys are doing. What's kind of the context there? You guys 217 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:07.639 wrapping up some of the things that discussion or just like pointing out, you 218 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.320 know, other events that this group, you know, might want to have 219 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:11.960 on the radar, those sorts of things? How is that evolved to? 220 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.759 Yes, so the quarterly email updates. It's a fair, fairly new thing 221 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.240 and basically it's something that I sent around to my professional network. So it 222 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.679 includes every one of the breakfast obviously, and then anyone else who I know 223 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:30.000 somewhat personally, at least somewhat personally, and and so I it's a chance 224 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.840 where I can actually be honest. I'm not really going out there and just 225 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:37.080 bragging or selling it's a little bit of bragging, it's also being honest and 226 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.480 and humble and and saying, Hey, I messed up in these shoe areas. 227 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:43.639 This is what I learned from that, which is obviously the important part. 228 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.799 And then I usually have an ask or something like Hey, I'm looking 229 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.879 for, you know, a new a new developer or head of product or 230 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:54.080 something like that. Yeah, I love that. I think that authenticity goes 231 00:15:54.120 --> 00:16:00.120 a long way one in building that connection with with your network and also giving 232 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.559 people things to learn from. We learned so much more from our failures and 233 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.559 insecurities and you know, it may actually be a little bit back by the 234 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:12.399 time that listeners here this episode, but as we're as we're recording this, 235 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:17.519 Rob Guy Tano, one of our good friends over at next Eva, and 236 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:22.440 James, our founder, kicked off what they called the insecurities challenge on Linkedin 237 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.759 and James Actually challenged me, and so there are people, you know, 238 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.039 posting to Linkedin right now with that Hashtag. Insecurities challenge too are something that 239 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.960 you know, Peel back the curtain on themselves and their own insecurities a bit 240 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.200 and what others can can learn from that. Both, you know, for 241 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.600 us to connect as professionals more on the human level and also I think they're, 242 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.440 like I said, some of the best lessons to be able to learn 243 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.679 and help each other out and encourage each other, you know, in those 244 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:52.080 ways. So I love that you're taken a very, very similar approach. 245 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:53.840 From what it sounds like. I've never heard of that, but I love 246 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.919 it. I love the concept and I just have to say that, you 247 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.759 know, I used to be so selfconscious and I used to think that I 248 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.400 had to have all the answers as you know, cteo of a company, 249 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:08.319 and and then, you know, I just I kind of realized as I, 250 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.920 you know, got older that hey, you know what, everyone has 251 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.440 these insecurities. Everyone, you know, no one's perfect, people make mistakes 252 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.440 and you can't have all the answers and so really by just, you know, 253 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.200 being open and honest and coming out there, I've had such a great 254 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.880 response from people where people just naturally want to help each other and no one 255 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.599 thinks badly of me that I don't have this answer, and so it's really 256 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:34.759 been a huge learning thing. Yeah, absolutely, there there's a tagline I 257 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:41.079 hear from Craig Grow Shell on his leadership podcast listeners had probably heard me mention 258 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:45.240 this several times lately, but that's one that's regularly in my rotation, whether 259 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.440 you're a founder of a company, a marketing leader, a sales leader, 260 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:53.480 whatever position of leadership you're in. The quote he always says is people would 261 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:59.480 rather follow a leader who's always real than one who is always right, and 262 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:03.319 I think that rings true and is really evident in what you're saying and sharing 263 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.079 their rob so again, I think we're likeminded in a lot of ways and 264 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.400 I've really enjoyed this conversation breaking down. You know how you've been able to 265 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.799 grow a network that has added value to folks that you want to be connected 266 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.880 with, and it's contributed to the growth of your business, even though it 267 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.279 wasn't necessarily you know the the reason for starting this from the onset, as 268 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:25.160 you mentioned,