Can You Run ABM and Inbound Campaigns Together?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:09.200 welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Dan Sanchez with sweet Fish Media and 2 00:00:09.200 --> 00:00:13.570 today we're still continuing this a B M journey that we've been on for almost 3 00:00:13.570 --> 00:00:18.160 two weeks now. I've been learning a ton. It's been fun. But now I'm sitting down 4 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:23.550 with Matt Hines, who is the president of Heinz Marketing Incorporated, and 5 00:00:23.550 --> 00:00:25.940 I'm excited to talk to him because he is certainly a thought leader in the 6 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:30.370 space. He's one of the most influential people that I've seen sharing advice, 7 00:00:30.380 --> 00:00:34.690 helping people consulting in the B two B marketing world. And I'm excited to 8 00:00:34.690 --> 00:00:38.970 talk about one place where I don't really have a clear answer to as 9 00:00:38.970 --> 00:00:41.900 someone who's coming from a B two C space. And I've done a lot of legion 10 00:00:41.900 --> 00:00:44.940 and other companies, even in the B two C space and in the nonprofit space and 11 00:00:44.940 --> 00:00:48.730 in higher red like I'm like doing lead generation has been a very comfortable 12 00:00:48.730 --> 00:00:51.630 thing for me. I've done a lot of ads, have run a lot of marketing automation 13 00:00:51.630 --> 00:00:55.290 campaigns, like a lot of split testing on the landing pages, you know, to try 14 00:00:55.290 --> 00:01:01.900 toe, try to get people from unknown to aware to engage to contacting sales, 15 00:01:01.900 --> 00:01:06.470 right? But now is I'm digging into this A B M space. One question that I've had 16 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:11.230 in the back of my head is like, Well, can you actually do a B M effectively 17 00:01:11.240 --> 00:01:14.790 and do lead generation? Are they two different things that you could run it 18 00:01:14.790 --> 00:01:19.420 the same time? Or do you really have to, like, pick one or the other? So I 19 00:01:19.420 --> 00:01:22.410 wanted to have Matt on the show today to kind of like explore this topic of, 20 00:01:22.410 --> 00:01:26.630 like, the two different methodologies in B two B and how they can work 21 00:01:26.630 --> 00:01:30.380 together or how they conflict. So, Matt, what do you think about when you think 22 00:01:30.380 --> 00:01:36.060 about these topics of using that these very different approaches? Yeah. Well, 23 00:01:36.060 --> 00:01:39.130 first of all, Dan, thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here, 24 00:01:39.130 --> 00:01:44.560 and I don't think you could do all one or all the other. And here's why. Like 25 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:47.140 I mean you when you're when you're going to get an agreement from a 26 00:01:47.140 --> 00:01:51.750 company, you sign up a new client or a new customer. It's the logo of the 27 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:55.710 company on the wall. So it's the account you're really going after and b 28 00:01:55.710 --> 00:02:00.100 two b, but the building doesn't write a check like people in the organization 29 00:02:00.100 --> 00:02:04.980 write a check. You can say it's an account based program, but the company 30 00:02:04.980 --> 00:02:08.090 will never pick up the phone. The building were Never answer your email 31 00:02:08.090 --> 00:02:11.940 so you're still marketing to contacts or leads like however you want to call 32 00:02:11.940 --> 00:02:18.090 it. So technically, you are always doing individual campaigns with an 33 00:02:18.090 --> 00:02:23.660 account orientation. And what I mean by that is you start to measure the impact 34 00:02:23.660 --> 00:02:26.680 of your marketing, not by how many people raised their hands by by my how 35 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:30.400 many accounts in your target addressable market are engaged, 36 00:02:30.410 --> 00:02:37.010 qualified in your pipeline and then close. So I do think it's important for 37 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:41.290 the vast majority of B to B companies. Thio adopt an account based orientation 38 00:02:41.290 --> 00:02:44.920 to their go to market strategy. But it's still really important to remember 39 00:02:44.920 --> 00:02:48.160 that you have to have a specific, personalized, relevant message to 40 00:02:48.160 --> 00:02:52.360 individuals across multiple channels to be successful. So you're saying you can 41 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:56.980 run them together? E think, yes, but I would say that it's a slippery slope 42 00:02:56.980 --> 00:03:00.470 for some companies to say, See, it's OK to still just do lead based marketing 43 00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:03.410 because if you're trying to get a big account, you have to know that there's 44 00:03:03.410 --> 00:03:06.660 a buying committee inside that large account. There's multiple people that 45 00:03:06.660 --> 00:03:10.110 have a vested interest in that outcome, and your your ability to get that deal 46 00:03:10.110 --> 00:03:14.890 closed is going to depend on how well you can create some internal consensus, 47 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:18.110 mo mentum and really commitment to change inside that organization. So if 48 00:03:18.110 --> 00:03:21.870 you could get multiple people to come to that conclusion around the same time, 49 00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:24.680 you're far more likely to get the deal done. So you still have to talk to 50 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:28.270 those individual people. But you talk to them as members of a group, not as 51 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:32.410 individuals. Siloed leads. That's the difference, right? Like if I have six 52 00:03:32.410 --> 00:03:35.560 different leads, quote unquote that air from the right company that air 53 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:39.030 generated. Unless they God forbid you round robin those leads around to your 54 00:03:39.030 --> 00:03:43.920 team. You just sent six leads from the same company to six different STRS, and 55 00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:47.120 maybe they're all exploring the exact same problem in the exact same buying 56 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.830 committee group Boy, that's really gonna piss him off that'll send them 57 00:03:49.830 --> 00:03:52.900 right into the arms of your competitors. So you have to have an account 58 00:03:52.910 --> 00:03:56.920 orientation to the way that you target the way that you organized and follow 59 00:03:56.920 --> 00:04:00.430 up as well as the way you sell. And I think that you know, the majority of 60 00:04:00.430 --> 00:04:03.000 companies. I mean, we've been talking about account based on a B M for a very 61 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:07.040 long time. The majority of companies still aren't there. We actually did a 62 00:04:07.040 --> 00:04:10.680 poll earlier this week on LinkedIn had we've got about 300 people that have 63 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.410 responded to the question of like, Have you transitioned your marketing 64 00:04:13.410 --> 00:04:18.990 approach and dashboards from lead based to account based, And only 26% said yes, 65 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:23.260 we had about 36%. That said, they're working through it currently, and 66 00:04:23.270 --> 00:04:28.500 almost 40% said no. So four and attend B to B companies. Despite all this talk 67 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:32.490 and frothiness about account based are still doing, you know, landing pages 68 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:36.100 and round robin, the sales teams. It's amazing. I remember just posting about 69 00:04:36.110 --> 00:04:40.690 a B M this morning, and somebody's like, What's a B m like literally somebody in 70 00:04:40.690 --> 00:04:44.580 the B two B space you're like, Okay, so not only are like that many people not 71 00:04:44.580 --> 00:04:47.930 executing it, they don't even know what the orientation is or what what they 72 00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:52.030 could be doing differently. Or they just they could be doing it very well 73 00:04:52.030 --> 00:04:54.950 and just don't put it name on it. I mean, there are Ah lot of companies 74 00:04:54.950 --> 00:04:59.000 that for years if not decades, have been addressing and orienting their 75 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:02.240 behavior towards the account, not the individual. So they didn't they didn't 76 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:05.950 need a fancy new acronym to do this, and I would argue the value of the 77 00:05:05.950 --> 00:05:08.650 acronym. So two things. One of the value of the acronym is only and 78 00:05:08.650 --> 00:05:11.690 getting people aware that this is a better way of doing things. Like five 79 00:05:11.690 --> 00:05:14.650 years ago, we were all really excited about something called Social selling. 80 00:05:14.660 --> 00:05:18.720 You don't hear that term very much anymore, now that the activities behind 81 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:23.150 social selling are just a part unevolved version of successful selling 82 00:05:23.740 --> 00:05:27.700 A B M stands for account based marketing, which is a terrible title 83 00:05:27.700 --> 00:05:30.620 because it makes it sound like it's a marketing initiative and the companies 84 00:05:30.620 --> 00:05:35.200 that are doing well in adopting account based treated, Maura's an account based 85 00:05:35.200 --> 00:05:38.830 goto market motion, not necessarily just an account based marketing effort. 86 00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:44.010 So I think it's I'm not worried if people don't know about are inside 87 00:05:44.010 --> 00:05:49.320 baseball language and acronyms. But I do think unless you're doing a very 88 00:05:49.320 --> 00:05:53.860 transactional B two B sale, you know you're taking an account. Orientation 89 00:05:53.860 --> 00:05:57.230 is gonna create farm or efficiencies in your business. Now it's interesting 90 00:05:57.230 --> 00:06:00.220 because a lot of this comes back to like how your tools air used because 91 00:06:00.220 --> 00:06:03.970 it's not always easy toe target someone's account. I mean, I'm even 92 00:06:03.970 --> 00:06:08.210 looking at our own, our own tools that we use Hub Spot and they have some A B 93 00:06:08.210 --> 00:06:11.780 M type features and where I can load in a list and then track. You know how 94 00:06:11.780 --> 00:06:16.050 that how it goes with that list is we try toe, move them from unaware to 95 00:06:16.050 --> 00:06:20.090 aware, too engaged in all that kind of stuff. But if people start coming in 96 00:06:20.090 --> 00:06:24.260 and maybe we're addressing market that's so large and just be to be tech 97 00:06:24.260 --> 00:06:28.840 companies that are over 50 employees, so it's a huge market, I won't be able 98 00:06:28.840 --> 00:06:33.090 to find a list of all of them. If I did then I don't know, even if I would load 99 00:06:33.090 --> 00:06:37.850 them all in the hub spot necessarily. But where I'm struggling is How do you 100 00:06:38.340 --> 00:06:42.240 then account for the fact that, like you could have a list? Ah, list of 100 101 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.860 or maybe 1000 companies. You want to do some account based marketing with, but 102 00:06:45.860 --> 00:06:48.120 at the same time, like if somebody comes in the door and you don't know 103 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:52.970 who they are, you know, and just request a consultation or request the 104 00:06:52.970 --> 00:06:55.920 lead magnet somewhere, you're essentially running very. Two different 105 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.370 marketing funnels, one to deal with, the one off that came in and the 106 00:06:59.370 --> 00:07:02.820 different kind of campaign that's recognizing that certain lead came in 107 00:07:02.820 --> 00:07:06.220 that belongs to one of the accounts that you're targeting. Do you think 108 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:10.650 that those two things can work side by side in peril? Like as a marketing team? 109 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.520 I know that they can. I know that they can, because we do it and I'll walk you 110 00:07:14.530 --> 00:07:18.320 kind of good examples of how we do it. So we taken account orientation to all 111 00:07:18.320 --> 00:07:21.830 of our sales. Once the opportunity comes in, we want toe, you know, 112 00:07:21.830 --> 00:07:24.610 coordinate behavior across members of the buying committee. We have an 113 00:07:24.610 --> 00:07:27.750 account orientation to not just our marketing programs, but how we sell, 114 00:07:27.940 --> 00:07:30.700 but let me But how you differentiate those programs is you have your 115 00:07:30.700 --> 00:07:34.010 proactive named account targets like there's a reason why sales people call 116 00:07:34.010 --> 00:07:37.790 them named accounts, because we say these are the companies, these 100 117 00:07:37.790 --> 00:07:41.090 these 400 whatever thes air, the company names that we want to sell. 118 00:07:41.090 --> 00:07:44.570 Teoh. Right? So we have that same list. We say. Okay, like based on certain 119 00:07:44.570 --> 00:07:47.910 criteria, Here's the companies that we think we should sell to. Who are the 120 00:07:47.910 --> 00:07:51.310 buyers in those companies? Where do we find them? How do we reach out to them? 121 00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:55.060 How do we sort of how do we proactively work them through the final and will 122 00:07:55.060 --> 00:07:58.930 help them through the buying journey? So those are our target proactive 123 00:07:58.930 --> 00:08:01.870 accounts? There are many other companies to your point. There's many 124 00:08:01.870 --> 00:08:05.480 other companies that would like that need help building predictable 125 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:09.220 pipelines, which is what we dio some of them read our stuff, find our best 126 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:11.920 practice guides, listen to a podcast like this and ultimately find their way 127 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.780 to our website. And then they say, Hey, we need some help, so it's not that I 128 00:08:15.780 --> 00:08:19.730 won't sell to them, but the way that I sell to them the way I still think 129 00:08:19.730 --> 00:08:23.570 about sort of building internal consensus is not that different than I 130 00:08:23.580 --> 00:08:27.420 have done my named accounts. And so there's my proactive effort where I say, 131 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:31.590 here's the X number of companies I care about and I have a goal for what I 132 00:08:31.590 --> 00:08:35.590 expect to sell on building my pipeline from those companies. I have a separate 133 00:08:35.590 --> 00:08:39.570 funnel that maybe here's my inbound leads and a lot of companies. I think 134 00:08:39.570 --> 00:08:43.240 topo is maybe the first I heard talking about Topo is now part of Gartner. They 135 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:46.320 talk about the double funnel right and saying, like, you know, and the double 136 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.350 funnel, it might be three or four funnels, depending on the nature of 137 00:08:49.350 --> 00:08:53.340 your lead, because you say someone I'm targeting. I may have a lower 138 00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:57.490 conversion rate from lead to opportunity, but ah, higher conversion 139 00:08:57.490 --> 00:09:02.580 rate from opportunity to close for my inbound leads. It might be the opposite, 140 00:09:02.590 --> 00:09:06.320 right? Like so I So you, if you've got a different set of economics for 141 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:09.560 different types of leads, either based on the size of the business or based on 142 00:09:09.560 --> 00:09:13.630 inbound versus outbound or versus targeted versus reactive, it's very 143 00:09:13.630 --> 00:09:17.000 much okay to run those two different forms. I think the equalizer, though, 144 00:09:17.010 --> 00:09:20.720 is once you have a qualified opportunity and it's especially 145 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:25.200 important that you have an account based motion to get that company to buy, 146 00:09:25.210 --> 00:09:29.230 even a company that is a short term, qualified opportunity still has to go 147 00:09:29.230 --> 00:09:33.120 through the motion of making making a choice, justifying a decision and 148 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.230 ultimately buying. I think an account orientation to selling at that point 149 00:09:37.230 --> 00:09:40.480 becomes extremely important, even for those that come to you and are already 150 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:45.500 pre qualified. His leads makes sense now. Essentially splitting your 151 00:09:45.510 --> 00:09:49.470 marketing resource is in order to serve two funnels or do you just kind of like 152 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:53.320 the whole everybody ends up serving? Both funnels equally across your team, 153 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.390 and the resource is, Do you almost have to, like, create the designation 154 00:09:56.390 --> 00:09:59.880 between them? It's a great question. I mean, and there you know, the the easy 155 00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:03.290 way for us to do it. That almost anyone could do is we created a custom object 156 00:10:03.290 --> 00:10:06.460 in sales. What's not cups? This project it's we created in the drop down of 157 00:10:06.460 --> 00:10:09.750 account type in salesforce, what you could do in Hub spot or wherever else 158 00:10:09.760 --> 00:10:13.740 there's an account type called named account, right? And so if you're in 159 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:17.120 Salesforce doesn't account, You're you're our name to counter here, not 160 00:10:17.130 --> 00:10:22.230 right. And so that drop down changes a lot of things. It changes. You know 161 00:10:22.230 --> 00:10:25.660 what happens when an inbound lead comes in? If an inbound lead comes in off of 162 00:10:25.660 --> 00:10:29.850 our website and the company name on the lead matches unnamed account, it gets 163 00:10:29.850 --> 00:10:33.490 flagged differently than if it was just a random lead. If someone in a named 164 00:10:33.490 --> 00:10:37.490 account does something on our website, they might get a elevated score in 165 00:10:37.490 --> 00:10:40.950 Marcato because there was a named account Doing that versus just a random 166 00:10:40.950 --> 00:10:44.950 person doing that right And then, in general, like we have different go to 167 00:10:44.950 --> 00:10:48.960 market place for our named accounts for the companies we say we want to target. 168 00:10:49.640 --> 00:10:53.360 And then the inbound leads may go to a different person or may get, get, just 169 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:56.470 have a different process. Different workflow. So it's not that we think 170 00:10:56.470 --> 00:11:00.180 one's better than the other inherently if they show interest, but we 171 00:11:00.180 --> 00:11:04.000 definitely have different strategies. Different go to market motions for the 172 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.060 two groups. So with that in mind, it seems like that would kind of be like 173 00:11:08.070 --> 00:11:11.300 everybody would be doing that like I can't imagine demand Jin doesn't have a 174 00:11:11.300 --> 00:11:14.630 process or falling in the lead That's come off of their website that maybe it 175 00:11:14.630 --> 00:11:18.250 doesn't fit their i c p. And it's not being tracked currently in there 176 00:11:18.740 --> 00:11:22.340 software or whatever. But I mean, I guess they have a whole list of 177 00:11:22.340 --> 00:11:26.160 everybody in their software, right? And that's why their demand base, But like 178 00:11:26.170 --> 00:11:30.120 everybody doing purely a B M is still having to do legion at the same time 179 00:11:30.130 --> 00:11:34.160 because they're still going to get inbound leads. Yes, yes. You still have 180 00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:37.910 to build processes for all the accounts that are coming in that aren't in your 181 00:11:37.910 --> 00:11:41.990 a countless. Yeah, so it just depends on where you're at. So, I mean, if your 182 00:11:41.990 --> 00:11:44.980 brand new company, maybe you're not getting a bunch of leads in right? If 183 00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:47.560 your brand new company, if you don't have a website that's been around for 184 00:11:47.560 --> 00:11:51.010 very long. If you haven't been producing content, maybe you don't have 185 00:11:51.010 --> 00:11:54.950 the S e o juice and natural traffic is going to generate natural leads. So now 186 00:11:54.950 --> 00:11:57.840 you've got to go on gonna be entirely outbound. Well, who you gonna target 187 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.130 Well, you better make sure who you're targeting our companies that you 188 00:12:00.130 --> 00:12:03.700 actually want to sell to, right? Conversely, you know, let's say you do 189 00:12:03.700 --> 00:12:07.510 get a lot of traffic like we got a decent number of leads on a daily basis 190 00:12:07.510 --> 00:12:10.870 on our website. I mean, I'll be honest, like I love them all. They're all 191 00:12:10.870 --> 00:12:15.360 welcome to my content. But most of those inbound leads are I would not 192 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:19.480 consider qualified prospects for us. They're not companies that either need 193 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.710 what we have or can buy what we have or in the market for what we have, right? 194 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:28.960 And so I think, you know, inbound leads ca NBI a false positive. If you say, 195 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.890 wow, we're getting all these leads and we're gonna assume the same conversion 196 00:12:31.890 --> 00:12:34.950 rate as if they were All named accounts are all target accounts. They're not. 197 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:40.540 So the MAWR qualified leads air in that mix from your inbound them or that can 198 00:12:40.540 --> 00:12:45.270 subsidize the need for other outbound activity. Like we've been in business 199 00:12:45.270 --> 00:12:49.320 now, 12.5 years. I'm very lucky that up until this point, like we've never had 200 00:12:49.330 --> 00:12:52.870 a sales person, I've never had anybody doing business development. It's in 201 00:12:52.870 --> 00:12:56.080 part because we're not that big, but also because we've been able to 202 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.570 generate word of mouth referrals, inbound leads that have been able to 203 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:03.810 feed us. Now, I still have to be very, very honest about the quality of those 204 00:13:03.810 --> 00:13:08.180 inbound leads relative to my growth plan. And this is I mean, I'm a small 205 00:13:08.180 --> 00:13:11.730 consulting company. This this could apply to Fortune 500 as well. You wanna 206 00:13:11.730 --> 00:13:15.660 grow? You need x amount of sales from X amount of pipeline from X amount of 207 00:13:15.660 --> 00:13:20.140 demand. And if I'm gonna sit here and say, Well, only 15% of my inbound leads 208 00:13:20.150 --> 00:13:25.670 are qualified to get in and I want to grow 50% the amount of actual leads, I 209 00:13:25.670 --> 00:13:29.100 need starts to grow exponentially. Right? So that's where I could say Okay, 210 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:34.260 well, I'd better get a higher conversion rate off of my inbound leads. 211 00:13:34.260 --> 00:13:39.340 I better have a better conversion rate off of my target account program. I 212 00:13:39.340 --> 00:13:43.040 better hire someone to actually be more proactive in going after our target 213 00:13:43.040 --> 00:13:47.880 account so we can increase conversion there as well. A za marketer. You're 214 00:13:47.880 --> 00:13:51.790 probably brainstorming outside the box ideas to engage your prospects and 215 00:13:51.790 --> 00:13:55.230 customers working remotely, and you've probably thought about sending them 216 00:13:55.230 --> 00:13:58.930 direct mail to break through the zoom fatigue. But how do you ship 217 00:13:58.930 --> 00:14:02.870 personalized gifts to remote decision makers when you have no idea where 218 00:14:02.870 --> 00:14:06.700 they're sitting? At B two b growth, we use the craft and platform to send 219 00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:10.910 hyper personalized gifts toe anyone working from anywhere. 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Um, to claim your personalized gift, go to craft, um dot io slash 226 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:42.360 growth just makes so much sense to me, especially coming from the B to C World. 227 00:14:42.370 --> 00:14:46.490 You can still do all the activities you were doing for inbound all the content 228 00:14:46.490 --> 00:14:50.770 marketing, all the lead, nurturing and all that kind of stuff to bring bring 229 00:14:50.770 --> 00:14:53.480 people. And, of course, if you have a really narrow I C. P. A lot of those 230 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.660 leads aren't going to be as good like you said for your your own company, but 231 00:14:57.670 --> 00:15:02.060 maybe offers, like a whole different avenue to offset it when it's it's high 232 00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:05.010 or low or, like a whole different channel. Hold different engine you 233 00:15:05.010 --> 00:15:09.410 could build to bring in more pipeline potentially. I mean, part of the reason 234 00:15:09.410 --> 00:15:13.990 why you designate someone as a target account is because you think it's not 235 00:15:13.990 --> 00:15:16.900 just you don't think they're easier to sell to. You think they represent the 236 00:15:16.900 --> 00:15:20.480 kind of company where you can address and solve a problem where it's it will 237 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:24.600 be a good mutual relationship. Part of the reason companies aren't on that 238 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.520 Target account list is because you think that as a group they're less 239 00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:33.320 likely to have the need less likely to buy. So if you could get some of those 240 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.560 companies that are not on the name to countless, if you can get them to pre 241 00:15:36.560 --> 00:15:43.690 qualify pre select pre filter themselves by coming to you like I had 242 00:15:43.690 --> 00:15:47.520 a company come to us, um, a week ago and it was a furniture company like I 243 00:15:47.520 --> 00:15:51.520 do not have any furniture companies on my target account list. I don't have 244 00:15:51.520 --> 00:15:54.440 any problem with furniture company that just that was not a filter. We have 245 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.450 used calls in says, Listen, we're trying to increase our channel play 246 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:01.420 there. A pure B two B play selling in the workplace is they've got certain 247 00:16:01.420 --> 00:16:04.160 channels they work with. They want a more predictable pipeline. The way you 248 00:16:04.160 --> 00:16:07.750 described him like this. Is this a perfect scenario for us? Right? I did 249 00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:11.620 not target him because because my my assumption, based on our target 250 00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:14.510 profiles, is that most furniture companies or B two c most furniture 251 00:16:14.510 --> 00:16:18.730 companies are not our small family owned. Most furniture companies are not 252 00:16:18.730 --> 00:16:23.870 gonna buy from us. But if they see your stuff and like it and they align with 253 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:28.330 your vision and live with what you have to share, some of those will pre select 254 00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:31.050 and then all of a sudden they might as well be a named account because of the 255 00:16:31.050 --> 00:16:34.490 way they operate. Well, the way they act, that's interesting. So as soon as 256 00:16:34.490 --> 00:16:37.710 they come in and they're qualified, you're you're essentially moving them 257 00:16:37.710 --> 00:16:42.350 into a named account situation. I'm just working at, like, over the rest of 258 00:16:42.350 --> 00:16:46.050 the A B M Pont funnel. I may or may not actually sort of call them to account. 259 00:16:46.060 --> 00:16:50.860 But I'm not gonna pretend that my named account list or my strategic accounts 260 00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:55.570 has identified every qualified potential company. There's plenty out 261 00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:59.970 there that I am not targeting that, you know, are sitting around thinking like 262 00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:03.700 we need better pipeline. We mean more predictable pipeline. And so my job is 263 00:17:03.700 --> 00:17:06.780 to have good enough content, good enough presence. So is they start 264 00:17:06.780 --> 00:17:10.829 researching that they could learn from us. They could hopefully start to sort 265 00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:14.349 of hang out at our blogger on our podcast more often. And eventually, 266 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:16.550 hopefully I, Aaron, the chance to actually get to talk to them about 267 00:17:16.550 --> 00:17:20.190 their unique challenges. Right? But if I started calling all the furniture 268 00:17:20.190 --> 00:17:23.930 companies in the world, that probably a pretty inefficient and unprofitable 269 00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:27.339 exercise to try to find the one that finally called me right. And so this is 270 00:17:27.339 --> 00:17:30.700 where I think you know your inbound strategy and your outbound strategy can 271 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:34.330 align. This is where you know, having a lot of people generate, you know, come 272 00:17:34.330 --> 00:17:38.400 to your site and sort of sign up for something. A newsletter or white white 273 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.710 paper or something still valuable. E I mean, some of those people that were 274 00:17:41.710 --> 00:17:45.180 not qualified leads two years ago are in another job and are now a decision 275 00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:48.780 maker. Or like yourself. Like you wanna be to see guy like were purely be to be 276 00:17:48.790 --> 00:17:52.140 right as a B two C guy. Sometimes you cross over to the dark side is now 277 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:54.940 you're in B two b, right? It's and all of a sudden you're working in a company 278 00:17:54.940 --> 00:17:58.710 where? Yeah. Now. Now, all of a sudden, some of the variables changed. That 279 00:17:58.710 --> 00:18:02.520 makes someone that previously couldn't by now be a decent prospect. And so 280 00:18:02.530 --> 00:18:06.730 what's the incremental cost of offering that content marketing white paper to a 281 00:18:06.730 --> 00:18:10.560 dentist in South Carolina? Like, what does it really cost you? Nothing. Right? 282 00:18:10.570 --> 00:18:14.140 As opposed to a dentist in South Carolina who happens to be at a party 283 00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:17.050 and talks to a friend or talk to someone they met at the Kentucky Derby. 284 00:18:17.060 --> 00:18:20.530 And you know Hey, you know what? I've talked to this guy. I was learning from 285 00:18:20.530 --> 00:18:25.320 this guy. You never know, So I would not restrict any of that. Just don't 286 00:18:25.320 --> 00:18:28.820 put those on your target account list. Don't spend the extra effort don't 287 00:18:28.820 --> 00:18:32.750 spend the extra ad dollars if you're targeting that way. It's really 288 00:18:32.750 --> 00:18:36.800 interesting. Okay, one another question. I would like to ask you, Matt, 289 00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:40.570 specifically, since you are unbiased when it comes to a B M software, and it 290 00:18:40.570 --> 00:18:42.790 seems like most people have a bias towards one of these things in the 291 00:18:42.790 --> 00:18:49.400 other is what do you consider overrated as faras a B M Tech in general? Yes, I 292 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.790 am unbiased. But, you know, I think if you're going to scale an account based 293 00:18:53.790 --> 00:18:58.700 go to market motion, you have tow have tools to help you do that. That said, I 294 00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:03.560 think what's overrated is the idea that you have to have the tools to do a B M. 295 00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:07.970 For me, the minimum text act to do account based sales and marketing is a 296 00:19:07.970 --> 00:19:11.210 spreadsheet in a telephone. I mean, literally, you know, just like, who are 297 00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:13.440 the members of the buying committee? What are the roles of the people in the 298 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:15.650 buying committee down the left hand side of the spreadsheet? What are the 299 00:19:15.650 --> 00:19:19.520 stages of the buying journey from left to right on the spreadsheet? It doesn't 300 00:19:19.520 --> 00:19:23.010 start with Can I give you a demo? Doesn't start with lead coming in. It 301 00:19:23.010 --> 00:19:27.270 starts with challenging the status quo of a prospect, right? And so, if you 302 00:19:27.270 --> 00:19:31.330 can think about, like the message required toe loosen someone status quo 303 00:19:31.340 --> 00:19:36.580 associated with each of those 5678 roles as a member of the buying 304 00:19:36.580 --> 00:19:40.290 committee. Now, I have specific messages that I can I can figure out 305 00:19:40.290 --> 00:19:43.550 how to apply that to the market, and the channel might be picking the phone 306 00:19:43.550 --> 00:19:46.640 talk to someone not with the same message over and over every person but 307 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.580 the right message of the right time to the right member of the buying 308 00:19:48.580 --> 00:19:51.880 committee. Now we're doing account based work because now I've got a 309 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:55.390 different message where I'm also sort of working to build consensus towards a 310 00:19:55.390 --> 00:19:59.570 single decision. Sort of single gas. A single commitment to change If you have 311 00:19:59.570 --> 00:20:02.840 one salesperson, spreadsheet and telephone is gonna work. Fine. If you 312 00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:06.800 have multiple salespeople, multiple accounts more than 11 person can dio. 313 00:20:06.810 --> 00:20:11.120 Now you need tools to help the sales people know. Okay. Like who am I 314 00:20:11.120 --> 00:20:15.130 talking to you? What stage are they at? What should I offer them next or Okay. 315 00:20:15.130 --> 00:20:19.870 How do I find companies that meet these criteria, like what companies today 316 00:20:19.870 --> 00:20:24.260 qualify based on these criteria and what new companies might show up 317 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:27.920 tomorrow, next week, next month that all of a sudden qualified for those 318 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.270 attributes and characteristics like, What are the signals? I'm looking for 319 00:20:31.280 --> 00:20:33.950 that God help me if I have to do manually all the time. So now, having 320 00:20:33.950 --> 00:20:37.880 an automated, intense signal factory to tell your sales team who to call and 321 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:41.100 tell your marketing organ, tell your marketing tools who to send a message 322 00:20:41.100 --> 00:20:45.000 to today and why today is a better time to send it than last week and why next 323 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:50.960 week might be too late, right? And so scaling that requires a set of tools. 324 00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:57.280 But its strategy first process Second technology to support Third in that 325 00:20:57.280 --> 00:21:02.290 order. At what point do you think someone needs the Tech E? I mean, 326 00:21:02.290 --> 00:21:04.930 honestly, it is pretty early in the process, right? I mean, I think if 327 00:21:04.930 --> 00:21:09.720 you're gonna, if you have growth goals, if you want to create a more efficient 328 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:14.200 sales organization, you're gonna need those tools early on. So I don't think 329 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:17.770 the tools themselves are overrated. It all there's a number of really good 330 00:21:17.770 --> 00:21:21.270 tools out there that are having that helping seems to be very successful. 331 00:21:21.540 --> 00:21:24.260 Unfortunately, just like we saw in marketing automation several years ago, 332 00:21:24.260 --> 00:21:27.290 a lot of people said, Well, I just bought Marcato. What should I do with 333 00:21:27.290 --> 00:21:30.490 it? Right? I want to do marketing automation. So I bought Marquette. What 334 00:21:30.490 --> 00:21:34.430 should I dio? Right? Strategy First process second technology third. And 335 00:21:34.430 --> 00:21:37.140 that doesn't mean it's not a three year process. That could be a three week 336 00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:41.940 process, you know, So I just just No, no, your Why? You know who you're 337 00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:46.320 targeting. Know what your go to market motion is gonna be not about the 338 00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:49.830 technology, but what are the stages for whoever you're selling to? What are the 339 00:21:49.830 --> 00:21:53.620 steps they're going to take to buy? What are the what's the criteria 340 00:21:53.620 --> 00:21:58.870 required for them to engage certain steps and then the How can you take 341 00:21:58.870 --> 00:22:02.020 something this manual and automate that? How can you take something is done by 342 00:22:02.020 --> 00:22:05.450 people and have it done by robots like there's a healthy amount of this work. 343 00:22:05.450 --> 00:22:09.360 It's still gonna have to be someone doing something. Use technology to make 344 00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:13.340 their time better, use their technology to make their time more efficient and 345 00:22:13.340 --> 00:22:18.950 more effective. My last question for you, Matt, is if someone's new like 346 00:22:18.950 --> 00:22:23.540 myself to be to be marketing and is very interested in account based 347 00:22:23.540 --> 00:22:28.540 marketing has a discipline. What are the resource is and ways to learn more 348 00:22:28.540 --> 00:22:32.620 about it, like what's out there for people to dive deeper into it. You know, 349 00:22:32.620 --> 00:22:37.300 there's a number of really good books, quite honestly, you know, all three of 350 00:22:37.300 --> 00:22:42.620 the Big A B M vendors have smartly written books on this topic. I would 351 00:22:42.620 --> 00:22:48.230 highly recommend AH book called No Forms, No Span, no cold calls by Latin 352 00:22:48.230 --> 00:22:52.270 content. She's the CMO six sense, very good book. There's a book called A B. M 353 00:22:52.280 --> 00:22:56.490 is B two B by saying Dr A. J. He's the He's the co founder of Terminus, 354 00:22:56.490 --> 00:23:01.010 Another really good book and when you know, you know Demand Base published a 355 00:23:01.010 --> 00:23:04.380 book a couple years ago called Very creatively account based marketing all 356 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:07.540 three very good books. The the other thing, I would say is like a demand 357 00:23:07.540 --> 00:23:11.190 base does a really good certification on account based marketing. I know six 358 00:23:11.190 --> 00:23:14.140 senses about the launch one around account engagement, which is really 359 00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:19.530 well done. We did a workshop last year, a three hour workshop on Predictable 360 00:23:19.530 --> 00:23:23.290 Pipeline, which was heavy on account based on intent, signals It's available 361 00:23:23.290 --> 00:23:26.850 on demand on, quite frankly, the star of the show with this 85 page workbook 362 00:23:26.850 --> 00:23:31.240 we did along with it, which is just sort of it's a customizable, you know, 363 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:34.780 fill in the blank workbook that can help you get the fundamentals down. So 364 00:23:34.790 --> 00:23:37.710 you know, there's a lot of really good resource is out there. They're all free. 365 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.790 And even though the first three I mentioned or from companies that want 366 00:23:40.790 --> 00:23:44.830 to sell you a B M software, I can tell you all three of those those resource 367 00:23:44.830 --> 00:23:47.540 is they're just very, very good independent tools to help you 368 00:23:47.540 --> 00:23:50.860 understand the opportunities and potential of account based marketing. 369 00:23:50.870 --> 00:23:54.190 Well, I'm on the right track. I'm holding, um, working through demand 370 00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:57.510 base is account based marketing book right now. Nice. I've seen a few other 371 00:23:57.510 --> 00:24:00.490 with the same title, naturally out on Amazon. I haven't gotten those two 372 00:24:00.490 --> 00:24:04.670 those yet to just finished six cents and syndromes book. Those were first, 373 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.130 and now I'm looking for the courses would be really interested in checking 374 00:24:07.130 --> 00:24:10.380 yours out. Is that just on your website? And I find it there. It's probably up 375 00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:13.350 there somewhere. Yeah, you have a bad section. I think it's on demand there. 376 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:17.130 Fantastic. I will find it and take a look. So if anybody's listening and 377 00:24:17.130 --> 00:24:22.790 wants to dive in, Matt Course is on. Believe it's Heinz marketing dot com. 378 00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:27.330 That's right. Fantastic. If somebody wants to learn mawr, of course, they 379 00:24:27.330 --> 00:24:30.790 could go to that course. They confined your website. What's your best social 380 00:24:30.790 --> 00:24:34.790 platform in order to connect and follow? You met, I'd say. Both Linked in and 381 00:24:34.790 --> 00:24:38.020 Twitter. We're trying to be lifelong learners, and we were trying to read a 382 00:24:38.020 --> 00:24:40.920 lot about B two B sales and marketing from other companies. We Every day we 383 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:44.190 take our three favorite articles on B two B sales and marketing and post that 384 00:24:44.190 --> 00:24:49.290 goes up on Twitter. You can find those at Heinz Marketing, and I post pretty 385 00:24:49.290 --> 00:24:53.410 frequently up on unlinked Ina's well, sort of short missives. And then once a 386 00:24:53.410 --> 00:24:56.960 week, we do kind of a summary of the conversation in the CMO group that I 387 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:03.300 host or co co host eso you can find me just, uh, slash in slash Matt Hines up 388 00:25:03.300 --> 00:25:06.850 on Lincoln as well. Fantastic. Matt, thank you so much for joining me on the 389 00:25:06.850 --> 00:25:15.280 show today. My pleasure. Thanks so much. Are you on Lincoln? That's a stupid 390 00:25:15.280 --> 00:25:19.500 question. Of course you're on LinkedIn here. Sweet fish. We've gone all in on 391 00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:23.210 the platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content there. 392 00:25:23.470 --> 00:25:27.370 Sometimes it's a funny gift. For many other times, it's a micro video or a 393 00:25:27.370 --> 00:25:31.570 slide deck. And sometimes it's just a regular old status update that shares 394 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.740 their unique point of view on B two b marketing leadership or their job 395 00:25:35.740 --> 00:25:40.110 function. We're posting this content through their personal profile, not our 396 00:25:40.110 --> 00:25:44.360 company page. And it would warm my heart and soul if you connected with 397 00:25:44.370 --> 00:25:49.020 each of our evangelists, will be adding Mawr down the road. But for now, you 398 00:25:49.020 --> 00:25:53.260 should connect with Bill Reed, R C 00 Kelsey Montgomery, our creative 399 00:25:53.260 --> 00:25:57.690 director, Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth, Logan Lyles, our 400 00:25:57.690 --> 00:26:01.830 director of partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We're having a whole lot of 401 00:26:01.830 --> 00:26:05.310 fun on linked in pretty much every single day on. We'd love for you to be 402 00:26:05.310 --> 00:26:06.670 a part of it.