Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:09.589 Hi there, and welcome to the BDB growth show. This is John Rougie 2 00:00:09.630 --> 00:00:13.710 and I host our category creation series here. I'm also the VP of marketing 3 00:00:13.750 --> 00:00:18.750 strategy at Bombomb, where we help you build better business relationships through personal one 4 00:00:18.829 --> 00:00:22.859 to one video. Okay, so here is the thing with category design. 5 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:26.699 It's not the kind of thing that just a few people can handle. You 6 00:00:26.780 --> 00:00:30.620 can really only pull it off if your entire team, your entire company, 7 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:34.340 is on board. Now, you might lead this strategy for marketing, but 8 00:00:34.579 --> 00:00:39.049 category design is going to affect everyone, from sales to accounting, to hr 9 00:00:39.130 --> 00:00:43.570 to product everyone else. So getting your team on board can't be left to 10 00:00:43.649 --> 00:00:46.969 chance. You have to be intentional about it. That's why I wanted to 11 00:00:47.009 --> 00:00:50.840 have our own president at bombomb, Darren Dawson, on the show with me 12 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:55.399 today. Now we are right in the middle of this category design process at 13 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:59.560 bombomb and I wanted to share some of the things that we've learned as we've 14 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:02.560 been trying to get our team not just aware of what we're working on, 15 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.430 but excited and involved, and that's a process that Darren has been leading from 16 00:01:06.469 --> 00:01:10.230 day one. So if you're ready to hear some firsthand thoughts on how to 17 00:01:10.469 --> 00:01:15.870 get your team on board with category design. Let's dive right in. All 18 00:01:15.909 --> 00:01:19.379 right, Darren, welcome to the show. Thanks, John, thanks for 19 00:01:19.420 --> 00:01:22.980 having me for of course now. I think this is the first time I've 20 00:01:22.980 --> 00:01:26.739 actually interviewed someone on this podcast that I work with directly, so kind of 21 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:33.370 excited about that. That's great. Yeah, so, instead of me telling 22 00:01:33.650 --> 00:01:38.489 our listeners about bombomb and about your story, obviously you're not just a president, 23 00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:41.209 but you're a cofounder. Can you give us a little bit of background 24 00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:44.329 about, you know, how bom mom came to be and then, of 25 00:01:44.370 --> 00:01:48.959 course, your involvement as as cofounder? Yeah, I mean it was two 26 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.640 thousand and six. I was running sales and content teams. Connor was running 27 00:01:55.640 --> 00:02:00.879 he was an independent sales rep for a billboard company. We you know, 28 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:07.110 he came up with this idea that we should be sending videos because we both 29 00:02:07.229 --> 00:02:14.110 had an issue where we had more people than we had time to communicate with, 30 00:02:14.509 --> 00:02:17.580 so, you know, customers to do presentations for. We realize that 31 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:23.300 if we wanted to scale ourselves and scale, more importantly, income, we 32 00:02:23.419 --> 00:02:28.780 needed to have more meetings, but that was hard because of time and all 33 00:02:28.860 --> 00:02:34.490 the constraints around that, and so he's like, man, we could send 34 00:02:34.530 --> 00:02:38.370 video. I thought that's that's a great idea. We should and so he 35 00:02:38.449 --> 00:02:45.000 can investigated that. Really couldn't find anything that did it. was looking for 36 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.319 another technology and again, pretty early in two thousand and six no, no 37 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:52.840 phone in the IPHONE, though, Youtube was privately held. I mean you 38 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:57.919 really wasn't know a video hosting service out there. So, you know, 39 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.669 he hosted a video on a server and he set it out to his customers 40 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:06.909 and they loved it. But what they love most about it is everyone wanted 41 00:03:07.550 --> 00:03:09.469 a service like that. Where to what service were using? How did you 42 00:03:09.550 --> 00:03:14.060 do that? So he came to me and we'd always been kind of toying 43 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:17.020 with ideas. We had a company before that we had ran, and so 44 00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:23.819 we're always looking for different entrepreneurial and things to do with different businesses going on 45 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:27.449 and stuff, and he said, you know, we should do this, 46 00:03:27.530 --> 00:03:30.650 this, this is the this is the one, this is a big deal. 47 00:03:30.689 --> 00:03:35.330 I think we could really make this happen. You know, we were 48 00:03:35.409 --> 00:03:38.889 just so early to it. That was the thing and I had a had 49 00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:42.280 a pretty good job. He did too, but he he jumped into the 50 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.879 deep end of the ocean. LS teasing and I had just gotten married and 51 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.479 had a baby on the lamb, like, I'm not quitting my job quite 52 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.120 yet. So, you know, wasn'tntil two thousand and eleven when I quit 53 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:58.830 my job and really dove in with both feat and the coincidentally, I just 54 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:01.349 had twins at the time I actually quit my job. So I don't know, 55 00:04:01.669 --> 00:04:04.710 everyone has their own appetite for risk and so connors was higher than my 56 00:04:05.030 --> 00:04:10.020 time. But by the time we in two thousand and eleven, things were 57 00:04:10.060 --> 00:04:13.419 a little bit better. You know, Youtube was owned by Google and the 58 00:04:13.539 --> 00:04:18.100 iphone had cameras and that really helped us accelerate what bombomb is, and you 59 00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:23.420 don't know bomb bombs of video messaging platform allows you to send quick, simple 60 00:04:23.420 --> 00:04:27.810 video messages to anybody. So yeah, and I think the the thing I'd 61 00:04:27.810 --> 00:04:30.089 add to that is it's not just that there wasn't a technology. People just 62 00:04:30.170 --> 00:04:36.610 weren't comfortable on camera, like every yeah, every you know, conference call 63 00:04:36.730 --> 00:04:42.759 I was on was exactly that. It was a conference call and if there 64 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:45.319 was a video option, you weren't using it, like unless there was a 65 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:49.120 real need. A really good point. Yeah, I was in television at 66 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:54.269 the time and so I really saw it as the world was captivated with this 67 00:04:54.389 --> 00:04:58.949 idea of the eleven o'clock news, that those were the professional video people and 68 00:04:59.029 --> 00:05:02.629 like that's how and also that's how video should be done. And we were 69 00:05:02.709 --> 00:05:08.660 big followers of Seth Goden and reading a lot of you know back then and 70 00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:12.100 the idea that if you had one thousand true fans, you know, that 71 00:05:12.459 --> 00:05:15.100 that was a big deal to us, and so we saw that that we 72 00:05:15.139 --> 00:05:19.100 could be our own broadcast network. Right, like either too many people or 73 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:21.930 two one person, but through video we saw the power of videos. So, 74 00:05:23.769 --> 00:05:26.209 yeah, it's it's fun to think about. And we also didn't have 75 00:05:26.329 --> 00:05:30.170 this VC C, you know culture that I think is so pervasive now that 76 00:05:30.730 --> 00:05:34.959 everyone has a start up, everyone is looking the adventure capital and things like. 77 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:40.319 It just wasn't like that then, like it is today. existed, 78 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:45.480 but just not it's pervase for pervasive as it is today. Yeah, so 79 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:48.639 you've been working on this for number of years. Maybe maybe a little bit 80 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:59.589 ahead of your time and had maybe and obviously at that point category design wasn't 81 00:05:59.670 --> 00:06:02.230 on your radar. Really wasn't on anyone's radar that. Yeah, term wasn't 82 00:06:02.230 --> 00:06:05.899 even coined until just a few years ago. Yeah, but here you and 83 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:11.980 I are. Were talking about it because it's a strategy were discussing and well, 84 00:06:12.019 --> 00:06:15.379 decided to pursue it. It bombomb and so it's in today's interview we're 85 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:18.970 going to talk about really like how to get your team on board with that 86 00:06:19.089 --> 00:06:24.050 strategy. But to give us some context for that, walk me through how 87 00:06:24.170 --> 00:06:28.850 you went from category design being basically nothing, something you had not heard of, 88 00:06:29.689 --> 00:06:31.529 to where we are today. It is a strategy we're moving forward with. 89 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:38.199 I think everybody, even back then, you you, everyone doesn't. 90 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:43.120 Doesn't understand maybe that there's an unknown category they we just think that we have 91 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.839 a problem that people don't know they have. I think that's the way that 92 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.829 it's been coined right that and if you're saying that to yourself, I think 93 00:06:48.870 --> 00:06:54.310 you probably have a category design problem. That that was the epiphany for me. 94 00:06:54.949 --> 00:06:57.670 You know, I just thought we really were having to explain a lot 95 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:02.740 to people the problem that existed. Why video is better, but it's a 96 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:08.019 category problem. We didn't have a category that fit. I didn't really realize 97 00:07:08.139 --> 00:07:12.339 that, and so when I did, it was podcasts on the topic, 98 00:07:12.500 --> 00:07:16.850 it was reading on the topic and I really time blocking to think. I 99 00:07:17.009 --> 00:07:20.850 think that that's hard. That's hard to find space to create time for that. 100 00:07:21.009 --> 00:07:25.689 But ring the play bigger book and you know, I see him. 101 00:07:25.689 --> 00:07:29.290 I brought this to me last year. I'm like, Oh, like a 102 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:31.920 I just don't have time. You know, it was it was the apprehension 103 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:38.839 of is this, is this one more marketing position thing, and now I 104 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:43.519 really don't think it is. But that's what I had to get myself there. 105 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:47.189 I had to read play bigger, I had to listen to a few 106 00:07:47.310 --> 00:07:53.709 podcasts and just wrap my head around it because I knew I would have to 107 00:07:54.509 --> 00:08:00.379 lead it from the position that was in. Yeah, so initially had, 108 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:03.939 like you mentioned, this idea of it being just another mark, like marketing 109 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:07.220 initiative, or just kind of a flash in the PAN. What what changed 110 00:08:07.259 --> 00:08:13.850 your mind about this really being more of a core strategy when I realized that, 111 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:20.129 like I had said, I really think that this, this is existed 112 00:08:20.209 --> 00:08:24.610 for a long time. But this idea that we just have to help them 113 00:08:24.649 --> 00:08:28.519 understand the problem we solve. They don't understand the problem you solve or or 114 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.440 that their problem exists. I think that's a category issue. And then that 115 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.600 was kind of the lightbulb going off, and so once that happened, I 116 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:41.629 could I could adapt, I think better. Yeah, okay, so you 117 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:46.590 mentioned Seve, Ourcmo, mentioned to it's you last year. We've been talking 118 00:08:46.629 --> 00:08:48.629 about it a little bit of past few months. Like tell me about some 119 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:52.710 of the discussions you had. I don't know if what that was, what 120 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:54.899 you with Connor our CEO, or others, just like over the some of 121 00:08:54.940 --> 00:08:58.899 the questions you had. What are the some of the questions others had, 122 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:03.340 concerns, things that you just had to talk through to kind of a make 123 00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:07.659 that lightbulb go off. I was skeptical, I get I think I thought 124 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:13.490 it was another maybe just a marketing position, because you think about things like 125 00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:18.450 Gardner or DT and how you fit in those things. And but when I 126 00:09:18.529 --> 00:09:20.529 started to really think about that and look at that and realize that we were 127 00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.240 in, for instance, other video, they just didn't have a place to 128 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:28.960 put us, and so we're just trying to prove to them where we belonged, 129 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.480 to show them that. So that's that was part of the again, 130 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.519 the Aha, like we need to invest in this, this needs to be 131 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.470 an initiative, and then realizing that it wasn't a marketing initiative. It was 132 00:09:39.509 --> 00:09:46.590 at a whole company initiative that it would change fundamentally how everyone really how they 133 00:09:46.710 --> 00:09:50.990 thought about the business and worked inside of the business and the mission that they 134 00:09:50.029 --> 00:09:54.139 had within it. And and that was a that's a really big deal. 135 00:09:54.379 --> 00:10:01.179 Right, we're thinking about changing just how people think inside an organization. That 136 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:03.899 that was part of the issue that everybody had to get in the same page. 137 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:07.169 We category design, that they needed to think about it to help us 138 00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:13.929 come to conclusions about what they thought it was. And how do we get 139 00:10:13.970 --> 00:10:18.450 everybody in the same page? I'm a big fan of Moncioni's five d functions 140 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:24.080 of a team and so whenever we roll into something I just really think about 141 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:33.279 commitment and buy in is one of those fundamental pillars and we have pretty good 142 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:39.230 trust on the teams person the executive team to introduce things. But you know, 143 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:41.950 a lot of times you have people just kind of held out and not 144 00:10:41.029 --> 00:10:46.789 not committed and I knew if we were to pull this off we just had 145 00:10:46.870 --> 00:10:50.019 to get buy in and commitment across the board, and so that was one 146 00:10:50.059 --> 00:10:54.500 of the things that a lot of one on one meetings with those folks you 147 00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:58.700 know from the leaders of CS, product development sales, like this is going 148 00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:01.179 to be a thing and I'm going to need you to help me and bring 149 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:05.490 it to your teams and be bought into it. Yeah, so they'll kind 150 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:09.129 of like three phases that it sounds like you went through. There was the 151 00:11:09.169 --> 00:11:15.009 phase where you're trying to get yourself sold on it. Yeah, is this 152 00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:18.490 something we should do? Is this real? Is it yeah, exactly, 153 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:20.559 and then we I think, the problems that I had a lot of other 154 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.080 people end up having as well. Right, right then, we discussed it 155 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.120 as a leadership team and we we made that decision as a team that this 156 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.720 is something that we would go forward with. And then that's the third phase 157 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.789 is, of course, sharing that with the entire team and talking to them 158 00:11:35.830 --> 00:11:39.470 about that process and what it's going to mean for them and how they need 159 00:11:39.470 --> 00:11:45.029 to be involved. But so let's I want to spend time on each so 160 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.100 let's start with the leadership team. What like if you look back at the 161 00:11:48.139 --> 00:11:50.820 process we used, what do you what are some of the things you think 162 00:11:50.860 --> 00:11:56.820 worked well? Then you know you would advise other companies to do or perhaps 163 00:11:56.899 --> 00:11:58.779 follow, and what are some of the things that maybe, if we were 164 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:03.889 to talk about it from a leadership or executive team perspective. Again, we 165 00:12:03.929 --> 00:12:09.049 might do a little differently. The first thing that we did was get everybody 166 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:13.289 this play, a bigger book, which is really this definitive work on this 167 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:18.159 topic, and then I asked them to read it. And then, you 168 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.240 know, I've been listening to some podcasts. Please check out these podcasts. 169 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.279 But then ask yourself this question. Do you think people actually understand the problem 170 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.269 that we're solving, what we're trying to do? Do you think that that's 171 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:35.149 true? Yes or no? And that was the each one of them and 172 00:12:35.230 --> 00:12:37.909 I had one on one conversations with each one of the leaders that report to 173 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:41.269 me, because I think that's the first buy and that I needed because I 174 00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:46.220 know that they were the key then to their teams right and in. And 175 00:12:46.299 --> 00:12:48.059 so that takes time. It takes time to read a book. We asked 176 00:12:48.100 --> 00:12:52.379 them to read it and I think like a week or two week maybe we 177 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:56.019 can have yeah, yeah, but you know, I that's not at all 178 00:12:56.139 --> 00:13:00.169 ask for our team. They we read, were readers. That's it's I 179 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:03.210 think you should be if you're lead ship. So and then, but just 180 00:13:03.370 --> 00:13:07.330 to get their heads wrapped around it. But it was the question of what 181 00:13:07.450 --> 00:13:11.610 do you think? Do you think that we fit in this category? Why 182 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:13.919 is it that these folks can never kind of put us in the right spot 183 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:18.120 that we agree with? You know, because we're not video hosting and we're 184 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.279 not we're not a lot of the we're not sales automation. So you know, 185 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.720 what are we? And if we're not any of those things, then 186 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.309 we have a category problem that we have a new defined category which actually, 187 00:13:28.509 --> 00:13:31.470 in this is the other part of this conversation with them, is a massive 188 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:37.350 opportunity for the business. If that is true and we are this or early, 189 00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:41.230 it's just opportunity, and so I think this will help us see that 190 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:45.860 opportunity to please understand this. I love your opinions and their opinions were a 191 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:50.340 lot what I had were is this just another marketing thing? Is this some 192 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:56.610 marketing position? Is this marketing sales stuff? Right, and and I just 193 00:13:56.730 --> 00:14:00.690 kind of work through my conclusions that it wasn't that. It really does change 194 00:14:00.690 --> 00:14:03.730 how your product people think about what you're doing and how your development people think 195 00:14:03.769 --> 00:14:09.690 about what they're building and your your success folks, how they talk to customers. 196 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:15.279 Your customer experience changes. So that was kind of it from the leadership 197 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:18.360 team and we've been working together, a lot of us for a long time, 198 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.080 so we got bought in and there's always I think the other thing is 199 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.629 you think you're done, but I think there's always that reinforcing why are we 200 00:14:26.710 --> 00:14:30.590 doing this? This is why you need have those answers right. You need 201 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.870 to keep I think as leaders, we quit and we launch something or we 202 00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:37.620 do something, we think we're done, but you need to keep reinforcing it, 203 00:14:37.779 --> 00:14:43.580 keep telling them why, reminding them why, the why, the why, 204 00:14:43.740 --> 00:14:46.539 and make sure you keep because I think you can lose by and you 205 00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:50.059 can lose commitment along the way if you'll keep people in the same kind of 206 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:54.169 lane focused on what you're trying to do. Yeah, yeah, you've you 207 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.889 certainly be doing that a lot. Like it's something we talked about every week 208 00:14:56.289 --> 00:15:00.690 now. Sometimes it's more in depth, sometimes it's it's just mentioned, but 209 00:15:00.730 --> 00:15:05.970 it's always something that's on the radar. And one thing I want to kind 210 00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:09.440 of call out that we did in the way kind of you framed us was 211 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.960 that it wasn't just like the fact that they that we were like miscategorized or 212 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.720 didn't really have a good way for people to describe us. It was almost 213 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.710 the other lens was that we knew that, when we looked at the competitors 214 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:26.909 in our space, at this category was going to take shape sooner or later, 215 00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:30.870 with the without us, with or without us, and so there was 216 00:15:30.950 --> 00:15:33.549 that challenge aspect of like, do we want to give ourselves the best chance 217 00:15:35.149 --> 00:15:37.299 of becoming the leader of this category or do we want to set on the 218 00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:41.259 on the sidelines and kind of watch things play out? Yeah, it's right. 219 00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:45.659 So we talked about that. What you mentioned, some things we did 220 00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:48.379 with well, anything you do differently and in terms of talking about this with 221 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.610 the leadership team next time, Gosh, I or not. All in all, 222 00:15:52.649 --> 00:15:58.409 I would wish I would have done this sooner. When I think about 223 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:02.169 because because of what you just said, just the because there is it's the 224 00:16:02.289 --> 00:16:04.720 timing thing. It's so if you're out there and you know you have a 225 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:10.879 problem that is unique, you know to seize it, because I wish I 226 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:12.799 would have done it sooner. And but we got buy and I mean we 227 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.399 turned around pretty fast, I think you know. You know, John, 228 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:19.149 was really your interview process with our CMO that really brought us to bear and 229 00:16:21.350 --> 00:16:22.789 and for us it was it was that him bringing it to me, just 230 00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:26.950 the conversations he was having with you. And so I mean, we turned 231 00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:30.110 around pretty quick, but still I always wish I would. I don't often 232 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:33.700 do that. Done often same way. We should have done that quicker, 233 00:16:33.460 --> 00:16:37.419 but this one we probably should have done quicker. Yeah, so one thing, 234 00:16:37.580 --> 00:16:41.500 one thing we did wait on, though, was we didn't really talk 235 00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:45.299 about this with the team at large until our executive team was was bought in, 236 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:49.129 and that was intentional. So tell me about like your thoughts on the 237 00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:53.090 right time and the right way to share this with the team, you know, 238 00:16:53.169 --> 00:16:56.730 once you're executive teams bought in. Yeah, for me, that's two 239 00:16:56.769 --> 00:17:02.799 ways. You know, we're we became because of the time of we find 240 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:06.920 ourselves in, this challenging time around this virus that's everywhere. We became a 241 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.559 distributed team very quickly and something that we've been trying to implement is more what 242 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.869 I call digital leadership, where you're using the digital tools that you have to 243 00:17:17.150 --> 00:17:19.869 scale leadership through video, and so we were using bomb bomb raising zoom, 244 00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:25.509 but and so that's one method that I can talk about. But the other 245 00:17:25.630 --> 00:17:29.549 one was that I expect that if I have my team's bought in at the 246 00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:33.619 leadership level, then I expect them to carry that message to their teams and 247 00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:38.980 help them understand it. And so that was one. But then through I 248 00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:44.019 do a Friday video every Friday and kind of update the entire company. I've 249 00:17:44.019 --> 00:17:48.650 been doing it before the virus kind of happen, but we do this to 250 00:17:48.690 --> 00:17:52.730 keep everyboy up to speed that was happening in the company, the positives and 251 00:17:52.809 --> 00:17:55.690 negatives, everything we want to communicate. So this became one of the pieces 252 00:17:55.730 --> 00:18:00.039 that we communicated and we offered also to buy everyone this play bigger book to 253 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.559 help them understand. I recommended the PODCAST. Is very similar to what I 254 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:08.880 done with the leadership team and invited them to engage. And you know you're 255 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.190 not going to get everybody to engage, but I think when you ask them 256 00:18:12.269 --> 00:18:17.029 to be a part of this, you know, I kind of challenge them 257 00:18:17.109 --> 00:18:18.869 like this is a part of leadership, this is what we're going as a 258 00:18:18.950 --> 00:18:22.630 company. Do you want to have a voice in this? We'd love for 259 00:18:22.710 --> 00:18:26.380 you to participate in this is how you can participate and it always gives me 260 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:32.099 a read on engagement and who's really bought into. Like how many books for 261 00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:34.819 ASP for right like how many people cook that the leg to the podcast, 262 00:18:34.940 --> 00:18:40.539 like what was the real engagement on? For me, I think about that 263 00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:42.650 a lot. As far as internally and what's the internal engagement with the initiatives 264 00:18:42.690 --> 00:18:47.049 that we're tackling? How bought in is the team and where do I need 265 00:18:47.130 --> 00:18:49.890 to work and what what areas of the business do I need to work in 266 00:18:49.970 --> 00:18:53.930 the get that buying broader, because I know I have it with my leaders, 267 00:18:53.970 --> 00:18:57.400 but how do we get that to the to the front of the line? 268 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.079 Right? And so the book was a big deal. Like how many 269 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.680 book orders did I pay for? Right, because we've got a you know, 270 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.119 about a hundred and fifty some od employees and yeah, we bought I 271 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.430 know we bought books for all marketing. So that covers, you know, 272 00:19:11.509 --> 00:19:15.670 a dozen, maybe fifteen and least probably bought like eighty books. Right. 273 00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:19.990 So far are still that gap there, and so thinking like okay, who's 274 00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:22.990 not on this list? You know, wh what we need to do to 275 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:26.140 close that gap? Yeah, and as leaders we want everybody to be like 276 00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:30.220 just so happy to be at work and they just think it's the best job 277 00:19:30.380 --> 00:19:33.700 ever. Right, but that just kind of tells you that you might need 278 00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:37.099 to work on and that not everybody thinks you're so awesome and right, you 279 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:38.809 need to help them along, but I love the fact that we got that 280 00:19:38.930 --> 00:19:44.009 many folks to kind of commit and are they reading it? So now I'm 281 00:19:44.009 --> 00:19:45.849 actually in this Friday video. I'm going to challenge them. Hey, what 282 00:19:47.009 --> 00:19:48.369 are you learning from? Play bigger? I would love to hear your input, 283 00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:52.039 which you were your comments from from the podcast that you're you're listing on 284 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:56.960 the topic. Like just challenge like again, like no, I want to 285 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.680 know. I'm and so, you know, I think it's leaders always get 286 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.119 we we're a bad at communication for not telling you what's going on. I 287 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.000 have no input to what the business is. So this is one of my 288 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.430 get out jail free cards right that I could say. Look, I asked 289 00:20:08.470 --> 00:20:12.230 you here and we have and I got responses from some people, but not 290 00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:17.190 from also that feedback loop. I think it's important to you because I want 291 00:20:17.269 --> 00:20:19.630 to understand. You know, I do believe, like I said, that 292 00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:22.619 I think it impacts everybody's job and that was one of the things I told 293 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:26.819 them. I said, you need to read this book, because what we're 294 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:30.299 about to do, it's not a marketing initiative. Like reinforcing this idea that 295 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:33.819 this is what it isn't and this is what it is. I think it's 296 00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:37.609 going to affect your job, and I gave examples of this. is how 297 00:20:37.609 --> 00:20:42.250 I think it affected in customer success, sales, development, product and so 298 00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:48.609 on. Accounting, UM, HR. Right, like think about all those 299 00:20:48.609 --> 00:20:52.400 different departments at how it affects them and kind of give them a real why 300 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.839 you should pay attention to this. So so, tell me more about HR 301 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.119 and accounting, because I know when I talk to people about category design. 302 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.349 First you got to get him off the idea that it's not just marketing, 303 00:21:03.430 --> 00:21:07.750 it's bigger than that. But then still I think there's an assumption that, 304 00:21:07.869 --> 00:21:11.750 okay, maybe it's marketing, sales and perhaps products, but then, like 305 00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:15.829 people don't jump to the idea that it affects someone in hr or accounting. 306 00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:19.339 But it does. So what in your mind? What are the things you 307 00:21:19.420 --> 00:21:23.339 said to those groups? How it's yeah, it's a part of the mission 308 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:27.740 of the business. You have to I mean you can ride, I guess 309 00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:30.660 in both of those roles. You can just kind of said it maybe to 310 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:36.049 you can some them the sidelines and just kind of do your job. But 311 00:21:36.329 --> 00:21:38.130 the mission of the business. You're supporting all of these groups. So, 312 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:44.089 yeah, I'm asking every way to read a book. HR when folks complaining 313 00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:48.000 about this or that, about not having a voice in the business or not 314 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.720 having a path to leadership, ask them how did you, how are you 315 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:57.599 involved in the category design things that they're in connor ask you to participate in 316 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:02.069 you know, right there, I think is a great example of how to 317 00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:06.549 bring everybody along. They're having a lot of those conversations that we don't get 318 00:22:06.549 --> 00:22:11.230 the opportunity to have necessarily, and I think that's a great example right there, 319 00:22:11.309 --> 00:22:15.019 that asking the question to help help me get by and help me get 320 00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:19.700 people involved in accounting. I think affects. It can affect billing and sales 321 00:22:19.819 --> 00:22:23.980 and and other things that we're doing. It can affect spend in marketing. 322 00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:29.259 It can affect spending expenses buying books. You know, why are we doing 323 00:22:29.380 --> 00:22:32.609 this? What's this for? How much are we going to spend this? 324 00:22:32.890 --> 00:22:33.970 You know, all those things come up. Well, if you read the 325 00:22:34.009 --> 00:22:37.250 book, You understand what we're trying to do. I think those questions become 326 00:22:37.289 --> 00:22:41.130 easier to answer. Yeah, now we don't have, you know, a 327 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:45.359 set of VC investors or practs a big board of directors, but we do 328 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:52.839 have some external stakeholders and I haven't really asked you before, like how much 329 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.319 they've been part of that conversation, but I'd love to hear what you share 330 00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.750 with them and what that response has been. You we have two board advisors 331 00:22:59.829 --> 00:23:03.470 that are really in the trenches with us. The others are kind of silent, 332 00:23:03.950 --> 00:23:07.950 you know, friendly folks from a long time ago, but those two 333 00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:12.380 really have engaged with that, read the book, enjoyed the conversation, helping 334 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:18.099 to in the kind of like they had the same conversation with them. You 335 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:21.140 know, here's a book, read the book, Here's The podcast, and 336 00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:26.490 then answer this question. Do you think people understand who we're trying to help? 337 00:23:26.970 --> 00:23:30.569 Is it? Is it intuitive? And if it's not, then I 338 00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:33.210 think this is what we need to pursue. And both of them came to 339 00:23:33.289 --> 00:23:37.089 that conclusion as well. So this is very much akin to what I did 340 00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:41.279 of the senior team. M But one of the other, I think, 341 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.440 benefits of what you're doing with so much discussion internally is that it's not just 342 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:51.960 keeping the team aware, it's keeping them involved and as we work on our 343 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.349 point of view and our story and our lightning strikes. It's you're creating a 344 00:23:56.390 --> 00:23:59.670 situation where it's not, you know, something that was handed down from on 345 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:03.069 high and correct or just have yeah, but they feel like it's something that 346 00:24:03.430 --> 00:24:08.349 they helped participate in and create, and thus they have our ownership of everything 347 00:24:08.390 --> 00:24:12.380 we're doing there. I hope so. That is definitely the goal. We'll 348 00:24:12.460 --> 00:24:17.579 see. We're I feel like we're still midway through the stream, but we're 349 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.980 getting there. Yeah, I know in the in the book and play bigger. 350 00:24:22.059 --> 00:24:25.490 I can't remember the term that they use, but there's a term for 351 00:24:25.609 --> 00:24:30.170 someone who's just a real like, really down and out about category design and 352 00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:36.490 how like that can be a real cancer to just making that effort. Six 353 00:24:36.650 --> 00:24:40.039 testful is that. I don't know if you've run into that specifically, but 354 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:42.119 if you did, what would like? How would you handle that? What's 355 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:47.079 your advice for dealing with someone whose head is in that space? Man, 356 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:51.279 I hope not. I hope I haven't it, but again, that would 357 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:56.470 be a fear I have that that conversation is happening and I'm not cognizant of 358 00:24:56.589 --> 00:25:00.710 it. Again, where I trust that my leaders are bought in and I 359 00:25:00.990 --> 00:25:06.269 and I hope that they're carrying that conversation. That's why HR and nes be 360 00:25:06.349 --> 00:25:08.460 bought in and everyone does. So you don't have that. What is this? 361 00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:11.859 Where we spending this money on or what are we doing this for? 362 00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:15.579 This makes no sense. Will you have you read the book? Do you 363 00:25:15.579 --> 00:25:19.619 understand well? What did your direct report or your your supervisors have to say 364 00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:25.369 about that? And if I was met with that conversation, I would I 365 00:25:25.410 --> 00:25:29.130 would be more inquisitive and curious just to how things are going for them, 366 00:25:29.809 --> 00:25:34.880 what's going on personally professionally? I would dive into that because I you know, 367 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:40.519 frankly, there's got to be something more underlying to that pain and problem. 368 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.160 Then category design. Yeah, and you know, to be fair, 369 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:49.190 like you in your one of your updates, you mentioned like this is something 370 00:25:49.230 --> 00:25:53.990 that's going to affect you like right. I, ever very up front with 371 00:25:55.269 --> 00:25:57.789 you. Need to read this if you really care about your job. I 372 00:25:57.910 --> 00:26:00.230 mean not that you're going to lose it, but if you want to grow 373 00:26:00.349 --> 00:26:03.980 as a person and you want to be in engaged in the direction of the 374 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:07.220 business, this is a great way to do that. Right, and it's 375 00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:11.539 like a it was like you know, your cheese is about to be moved. 376 00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:14.740 We're telling you that it's going to be moved and it's going to be 377 00:26:14.859 --> 00:26:17.579 moved for a good reason and there's reason to be excited about it. But 378 00:26:17.660 --> 00:26:22.089 we need to let you know so you're not surprise when things are different or 379 00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:26.049 we talked about different changes or directions or ideas. Yeah, that's right and, 380 00:26:26.210 --> 00:26:30.609 moreover, I it's just such an opportunity. If we can get it 381 00:26:30.809 --> 00:26:34.279 right, if you can get this right, the opportunity is massive. The 382 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:40.319 other side's massive. I think being a part of that ride is a great 383 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.000 look. I always tell folks at bomb bomb you know, I hope that 384 00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:45.599 you're here for a very long time. You love working here, but if 385 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.430 you're not, I want this to be a place where you grew more than 386 00:26:48.470 --> 00:26:52.789 you grew anywhere else in the and I think about man, it's it's just 387 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:56.349 if you want to build your resume, if you want a career path, 388 00:26:56.390 --> 00:27:00.230 that's exciting. This is something you know. It's a it's a metal on 389 00:27:00.390 --> 00:27:04.380 your uniform, if you will, that you achieve this with a business and 390 00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:07.779 you help implement it and you know about it. It's something you understand. 391 00:27:08.180 --> 00:27:11.859 I think it's very, very valuable in the future. Yeah, it's like 392 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.619 if you're in the military, you know it's a manage a whole lot more 393 00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.210 that you win the war. Right, like, right, I got my 394 00:27:18.329 --> 00:27:21.730 category design jump wings, right, something like that. Right. Yeah, 395 00:27:22.369 --> 00:27:25.289 so, like like a lot of things, I know, at least for 396 00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:27.849 me, I'll read about something and it sounds one way in theory and then 397 00:27:27.930 --> 00:27:33.319 in practice there's it's usually a little different. There's some surprises along the way. 398 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.079 What have those been for you in this process? You know, it's 399 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:42.799 there's so many questions you end up asking yourself in your in your customers and 400 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:52.309 your people about who you think you are, and that always surprises me. 401 00:27:52.349 --> 00:27:56.430 I guess you spend so much time building a product thinking about the problem you 402 00:27:56.549 --> 00:28:03.740 solve and the people it serves, and then when you you really you get 403 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:08.259 this a lot and product interviews, but this is far more invasive or all 404 00:28:08.259 --> 00:28:12.289 encompassing, and so I think it gets deeper and I guess I've been surprised 405 00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:22.049 really about how how we think things are versus how maybe customers do or employees 406 00:28:22.170 --> 00:28:25.690 do, the team does, what they think about it. That, I 407 00:28:25.769 --> 00:28:30.839 think that's actually been my biggest one is how the team thinks about certain aspects 408 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:36.279 of the product or how we've developed it are done different things and their perceptions 409 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.680 of those things and the outcomes ever created from it. So it's just a 410 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:45.950 big you got to create space to think. I can't straight like I've never 411 00:28:47.670 --> 00:28:52.710 before, or spent more time Tom Time blocking to think about category design, 412 00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:57.180 the impact that's having on the business in listening to feedback then I have. 413 00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:03.460 I've never done it more than I have now through this process. So one 414 00:29:03.500 --> 00:29:07.339 of those was just hearing ways that our team and our customers talk about the 415 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.009 product and that being different from how you're not thinking about it. With with 416 00:29:11.410 --> 00:29:15.609 category design, you can get to this point where you're trying to scale. 417 00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:18.289 You know, how do you scale this team that we've been here a long 418 00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:22.650 time. Our core team has been along here a long time. You kind 419 00:29:22.650 --> 00:29:25.359 of get this bubble them until we all get it. We understand how this 420 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.039 thing is and we perceive how it's perceived in a way. But the diversity 421 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.000 that you get when you're talking to a law your larger group, and then 422 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:38.430 as the as the company has grown, all the users you have, the 423 00:29:38.549 --> 00:29:44.029 different you know types of users you have and which one's the best ones of 424 00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:48.150 all of those and I think that's a big growing up maturity process for any 425 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:53.059 business, and this process, I think, put you through that at a 426 00:29:53.220 --> 00:30:00.019 at an accelerated rate, because you're spending so much time focusing on like the 427 00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:03.500 strategy of the business, what the what category of the business is and what 428 00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:06.579 problem we're trying to solve. All these kind of like it's like a you 429 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:11.650 know, it's like a magnifying glass and a and the sun coming through its 430 00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:15.410 amplified, because once in a while you'll pick up these, you know, 431 00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:21.920 verbatim's from clients or, you know, internally, but here that entire thing 432 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.599 is escalated, accelerated in magnific find into a tighter window of time. Yeah, 433 00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.480 yeah, so going forward, what are some of the things that you 434 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:36.309 think we need to do well in order to, think you sustain this momentum, 435 00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:41.509 to pull off category design and just be successful in this whole endeavor again 436 00:30:41.630 --> 00:30:45.069 reminding everyone why we're doing it. I think just keeping the buy in, 437 00:30:45.190 --> 00:30:51.099 keeping the commitment sustained. We can't just say we're doing it and then expect 438 00:30:51.140 --> 00:30:53.740 that that continues to happen. I think people even that maybe bought in the 439 00:30:53.819 --> 00:31:00.380 beginning might have questions along the way. That maybe has their focus away from 440 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:04.569 the committed side of things. So I think pushing on that and then leading 441 00:31:04.609 --> 00:31:11.769 by example. I really feel that that's important for me in my leadership team 442 00:31:11.369 --> 00:31:18.640 that we walk the walk and talk to talk and don't deviate from that. 443 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:23.160 And so we read the book, we're we're telling them the latest thing we 444 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:30.119 heard on this podcast about the topic or just leading by example. It is 445 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.910 is a big deal. I think it is in all things, but in 446 00:31:33.069 --> 00:31:37.109 this they have to see that you're committed to it too, or they're not 447 00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:40.109 going to be committed to it. Yeah, and that's why it's so important 448 00:31:40.150 --> 00:31:44.309 that this isn't something that me or Steve Ore see them. Oh Yeah, 449 00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:47.660 be the cheerleader for like. It has to be you and Connor, because 450 00:31:47.900 --> 00:31:49.740 you got to set that example for the whole company. Yes, you, 451 00:31:49.900 --> 00:31:53.380 Yep, complete and then, and then I need y'all to help me do 452 00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:57.180 that with your teams and then so and then through all the leadership teams that 453 00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:00.890 buy and I think permeates from the top down. Yeah, it's to buy 454 00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:06.049 and if you get to buy in, doing the work becomes not about to 455 00:32:06.089 --> 00:32:08.730 work. Kind of right. Right, and one of the things that we 456 00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:14.250 talked about early on was just the time horizon for the thinking this work, 457 00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:19.440 and I'm mistakenly told you I wanted to go fast, which is like, 458 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.720 Oh, it's a lot of work, I think. I think I underestimates, 459 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:29.960 underestimated in and how much is involved here. And so it's like we're 460 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.430 always going fast anyway and drinking from a fire hose kind of thing. That's 461 00:32:32.470 --> 00:32:37.109 like, yeah, just getting past the fire hose and going right to the 462 00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:42.190 hydrant. But I think I want to go faster because I felt like we 463 00:32:42.269 --> 00:32:45.859 were behind on it, that that, yeah, someone's going to do this 464 00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:51.299 the for us if we don't write, and so I don't want that happen. 465 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:54.180 That could happen. Yeah, and I think the one like counterbalancing forces 466 00:32:54.220 --> 00:33:00.650 this idea that you know when you come up with your messaging around this category 467 00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:02.609 and that you know point of view around this. It's not something that you 468 00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:07.250 want to test out for a month and go back on and try something else, 469 00:33:07.329 --> 00:33:10.250 like it's a it's a commitment, right, and so you do want 470 00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:13.799 to move quickly, you also want to make sure you put the time into 471 00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:15.119 it and you know, block time out of your day, like you're doing, 472 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.799 to think through it and make sure that we're giving our best selves the 473 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:24.000 best chances of getting it right. Yeah, I think everyone probably wonders, 474 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:28.069 how long is it take? And I think it probably takes as long as 475 00:33:28.069 --> 00:33:31.029 it takes, and that's like the worst answer for any person in your ship, 476 00:33:31.230 --> 00:33:36.349 right, but it's it's kind of hard to rush that. I think 477 00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:38.390 some of this information. If you rushed it, I don't know if you 478 00:33:38.549 --> 00:33:43.099 get the same outcome that you're because the idea is getting the outcome what you 479 00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:45.579 want, which is you want to be number one in the category, but 480 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:51.019 the leader in the category. That the name people think of when they think 481 00:33:51.099 --> 00:33:53.099 of the problem you solve. Sure, who do I need to solve this 482 00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:58.089 problem? They think of your company and that's what that's the outcome, and 483 00:33:58.369 --> 00:34:04.250 second isn't good. So you know, really you got to do it fast 484 00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.610 enough to take out your competitors or to win in that race. I am 485 00:34:07.650 --> 00:34:12.519 take them out, just define your space in the market. But yeah, 486 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.280 there's there's probably happy medium there. I think. I think we're striking it. 487 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:19.559 Of course. I feel pretty good about it. Right. All right, 488 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:24.150 Darren, any any parting advice for any other cofounders executives who are thinking 489 00:34:24.150 --> 00:34:29.510 about category design. Maybe they're at a point where maybe they read play bigger, 490 00:34:29.630 --> 00:34:31.710 maybe they've just listened to this interview. They want to bring it up 491 00:34:31.710 --> 00:34:36.309 with their team, but they're not sure what that looks like, what that 492 00:34:36.429 --> 00:34:38.739 next step is, which what's your kind of parting advice for someone in that 493 00:34:38.860 --> 00:34:45.579 situation? I really do believe buying with your team, your core leadership team, 494 00:34:45.619 --> 00:34:49.539 is key that. If I would, I would start to have the 495 00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:52.650 first conversation. I would ask yourself myself, what is the next right thing 496 00:34:52.809 --> 00:34:55.690 to do and decide what that step is and then, after that, was 497 00:34:55.809 --> 00:35:00.650 the next right thing to do after that? And I think the first thing 498 00:35:00.769 --> 00:35:04.929 to do is probably, if you have a partner and cofounder like I did, 499 00:35:04.929 --> 00:35:07.320 it's what do you think about this? I think this is something we 500 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:13.320 should do and and again pose it with a question of hey, you know, 501 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.920 read this chapter of this book, or here's a podcast, or do 502 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.989 you think that everyone understands a problem that we uniquely solve easily? And if 503 00:35:23.070 --> 00:35:27.750 the answer is null, we should consider this. I like to talk to 504 00:35:27.789 --> 00:35:30.070 you more about that next week to let give them time. I don't think 505 00:35:30.070 --> 00:35:34.949 everybody can just like instantly decide, so maybe giving them time to come around 506 00:35:34.949 --> 00:35:38.099 to that conclusion and then take the next one and the next one and then 507 00:35:38.179 --> 00:35:44.500 talk about as a group. I think that's that worked well and that's where 508 00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:46.380 you're at. You just read the book, you listen to this. I 509 00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:51.090 would I would start to have one on one conversations to kind of move in, 510 00:35:51.170 --> 00:35:52.809 you know. So it sounds like what you're saying is, even if 511 00:35:52.849 --> 00:35:57.409 you're bought in and you're excited and you know in your heart of hearts that 512 00:35:57.969 --> 00:36:00.730 category design is the right strategy for your company, if you if you go 513 00:36:00.889 --> 00:36:05.119 into hot and you try to make the hardest cell and that first conversation, 514 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.800 that's really not going to get you anywhere. You just want to see if 515 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.559 people are open to discussing it and then through that this session. Yeah, 516 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.039 getting the internal bind is the key because without it, you you cannot do 517 00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:22.269 this. Without that, you without them committed and then ultimately a good portion 518 00:36:22.309 --> 00:36:27.070 of the entire business committed, it's just not going to have the outcome which 519 00:36:27.110 --> 00:36:29.989 is your number one in your category. That's what you're trying to do and 520 00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:34.260 that's not easy. I am far past the days of me being able to 521 00:36:34.420 --> 00:36:39.059 just drop what I want done in this business and have it happened and and 522 00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:43.420 and I don't want to be that way anymore. Like it that that's the 523 00:36:43.460 --> 00:36:47.369 way you have to do it when you're a five person team or a twenty 524 00:36:47.449 --> 00:36:52.809 person team. You know that. But we're we've skilled past the entrepreneur. 525 00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:58.250 You know, ideas are chief executions hard like you know, I've had there's 526 00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:00.610 been too many of these ideas. I've been like, oh, that one 527 00:37:00.690 --> 00:37:02.960 one was so good, so why is this one? You'RE gonna have to 528 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:07.000 you know, the size of our business, like, why is this the 529 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.000 direction that we need to go on? You need to get them bought in 530 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:13.159 because they might follow you, but if they're not committed and bought in, 531 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.110 it's going to create drag on the whole program and you won't have the success 532 00:37:16.150 --> 00:37:20.429 you want. Yeah, it would be a really expensive diversion for suspend lot 533 00:37:20.469 --> 00:37:22.710 of time on it and not be able to get the team bought in right, 534 00:37:22.710 --> 00:37:24.389 because if, yeah, if you get nine months into this and they 535 00:37:24.469 --> 00:37:30.820 just kind of Fizzles, man as a lot of cash. Right. All 536 00:37:30.860 --> 00:37:35.139 right, Darren, if someone wants to get in touch with you talking about 537 00:37:35.300 --> 00:37:39.420 category designer bombomb or, Yep, you your sweet be generous shirt. What's 538 00:37:39.699 --> 00:37:44.059 what's the best way for them to do that? I'm easy to find on 539 00:37:44.289 --> 00:37:47.650 Linkedin, Darren Dawson and then, but I am one of those guys who 540 00:37:47.690 --> 00:37:52.170 likes to communicate facetoface. You want to hit me up on email, Darren 541 00:37:52.289 --> 00:37:55.369 bombombcom. Love the chat with you. Love to understand, love to always 542 00:37:55.369 --> 00:37:59.960 love to collaborate with other entrepreneurs, other business owners, trying to figure the 543 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.079 stuff out. So that's the best way. All right, good stuff. 544 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:05.239 Thanks for being with me, Darren. Thanks, John, appreciate you. 545 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:10.159 Okay. Well, that reps up this episode of the Category Creation Series. 546 00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:14.869 I hope you enjoyed it and I hope that this episode helped you in some 547 00:38:15.070 --> 00:38:17.469 small way to become a better marketer. Now, if you want to get 548 00:38:17.469 --> 00:38:22.550 in touch with me, you can just head to John Dot Marketing in your 549 00:38:22.590 --> 00:38:25.269 browser or, of course, you can find me on Linkedin. Thanks for 550 00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:32.099 listening. I'll see you next time. One of the things we've learned about 551 00:38:32.099 --> 00:38:37.860 podcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. The works really, really 552 00:38:37.940 --> 00:38:40.019 well actually. So if you love this show, it would be awesome if 553 00:38:40.059 --> 00:38:44.449 you texted a friend to tell them about it and if you send me a 554 00:38:44.650 --> 00:38:47.289 text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend Metta. I 555 00:38:47.409 --> 00:38:51.730 know I'll send you a copy of my book, content based networking, how 556 00:38:51.769 --> 00:38:54.329 to instantly connect with anyone. You want to know my cell phone numbers. 557 00:38:54.369 --> 00:38:59.159 Four hundred seven, four nine, hundred and three hund and three, two 558 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:00.480 eight. Happy texting.
