Crisis Builds Resilience with Chuck Hengel

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.990 Welcome in to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block. 2 00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:14.029 Today we're joined by Chuck Hangel. He's a CEO and founder of marketing architects. 3 00:00:14.150 --> 00:00:17.589 Chuck, welcome to be to be growth. Beni excited to be here. 4 00:00:17.670 --> 00:00:20.870 Love your show. Thank you, sir. So, Chuck, first 5 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:26.019 off, I think a congratulations is in order because recently you celebrated twenty five 6 00:00:26.179 --> 00:00:31.500 years at marketing architects. So fantastic achievement and congratulations on that. Thank you. 7 00:00:31.579 --> 00:00:34.939 Yeah, we're a little paranoid as an agency. We think of ourselves 8 00:00:34.939 --> 00:00:37.409 as a startup every year, but we've made it a long time, so 9 00:00:37.530 --> 00:00:41.729 we are thankful for that. I love that you keep the startup culture alive 10 00:00:41.850 --> 00:00:45.570 and that heart alive, because there's something so unique about it and it's obviously 11 00:00:45.770 --> 00:00:49.329 in your blood as a founder. So it doesn't matter how many years pass, 12 00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:52.920 if you choose to have that culture, it bleeds into to everything you 13 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:57.799 guys do and that's wonderful and we actually want to tap into your twenty five 14 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:02.280 years at marketing architects on this episode. Right. One thing that you and 15 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.629 I have gone back and forth about and what we really want to drive home 16 00:01:04.709 --> 00:01:11.109 today, is this idea of the opportunity that crisis actually creates individually, but 17 00:01:11.150 --> 00:01:15.150 also, obviously, in organizations, and the resilience that can happen there. 18 00:01:15.709 --> 00:01:21.459 So, Chuck, tell me this. Do you remember the first time in 19 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:26.579 business where you had like just epic or some sort of big, sort of 20 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:32.540 crisis moment, and to walk me through what you remember about me that first 21 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:36.170 crisis that you ever hit? Yeah, that's a walked on memory lane. 22 00:01:36.209 --> 00:01:38.650 We think of ourselves as an agency that I was always looking forward, so 23 00:01:40.250 --> 00:01:44.530 we don't look back a lot, but that question definitely brings out many times 24 00:01:44.689 --> 00:01:49.319 where we're lucky to be here. Actually, my first real crisis was at 25 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.239 a time where I finally reached a level where I was an executive and I 26 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:56.359 had more responsibility for the problems that we're being creative and I think I'm there's 27 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.040 probably crisis is before that that I didn't pay a lot of attention to. 28 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:02.829 We had a scenario when I was with the prior agency right before starting marketing 29 00:02:02.870 --> 00:02:07.509 architects, and we had been making media commitments to get better value for our 30 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:12.909 clients and media. Then we had to meet the demand for those commitments and 31 00:02:13.069 --> 00:02:15.710 what had happened with one of our big ones is we want upside down. 32 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:20.180 We couldn't meet the weekly demand to fill the space that we had acquired and 33 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:23.620 our losses were approaching a hundred thousand dollars a week, which we could not 34 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:27.939 sustain. And the executive team got together because we were not able to solve 35 00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:34.009 this after seven or eight weeks, and we overwhelmingly thought let's renegotiate this commitment 36 00:02:34.050 --> 00:02:38.330 and because we're never going to survive us, and survival got to be our 37 00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:42.490 primary goal in the CEO at the time said no, we are not going 38 00:02:42.530 --> 00:02:46.000 to renegotiate that commitment. That's a core value of ours. We're going to 39 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:47.800 keep the commitments we make. We've got to figure out a way through this 40 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:53.680 and we didn't see a way through it. But that resolve to not negotiate 41 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.120 our commitments put us in a room and made us think at a level that 42 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:00.229 we wouldn't have been able to think, I think, without that pressure of 43 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:05.590 really seeing the agency probably go under and we figured out a way to make 44 00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:09.870 it happened and keep those commitments and see the agency survived. It didn't feel 45 00:03:09.949 --> 00:03:14.500 good to be at a company you loved and potentially see the end of it 46 00:03:15.300 --> 00:03:17.379 and didn't feel good to maybe have a solution that would have been a shortcut 47 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:23.379 to survive and not pursue it. But in the end, by holding strong, 48 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:27.490 we found a way through it and we became far better. And what 49 00:03:27.650 --> 00:03:31.169 was interesting was the crisis itself caused us to think in a way we hadn't 50 00:03:31.169 --> 00:03:36.050 done before, and we use that to accelerate the overall growth of the agency, 51 00:03:36.169 --> 00:03:39.050 not just to solve the current problem, but to have more resolve and 52 00:03:39.169 --> 00:03:43.439 have more strength. And we really updated our sales and marketing strategy because that 53 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:46.759 was the issue we had. We didn't have enough clients, and we use 54 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:51.280 that to accelerate growth. That ultimately put us in the upper range of the 55 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:53.800 type of agency we were and we eventually sold down to Coom. So we 56 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:59.590 really use that to springboard into greater things. I think about that moment that 57 00:03:59.830 --> 00:04:04.270 you're at this crossroads where you have this option. We can renegotiate right like 58 00:04:04.349 --> 00:04:09.389 it was something that was actively being thought about in the agency. It's something 59 00:04:09.509 --> 00:04:15.219 that we could do. But to have someone that's your senior come and say 60 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:16.860 no, that's not our culture, no, that's not what we do. 61 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:23.300 What does that do for you as a young leader to see that kind of 62 00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:28.209 spearheaded leadership and how does that impact you moving forward from that that key decision? 63 00:04:28.209 --> 00:04:32.050 Yeah, it's interesting. He was outvoted eight to one and he stood 64 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:38.410 firm wow, to keep more commitment, and I remember that resolve and I 65 00:04:38.529 --> 00:04:42.839 remember his can do spirit and I remember him having to pick all of us 66 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.040 up to believe that we could do it, and all of that made just 67 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:51.990 an amazing impression to me and I've always in my head think about that moment. 68 00:04:53.029 --> 00:04:57.470 A lot of man, you can be actually really unpopular. It was 69 00:04:57.509 --> 00:05:00.910 a leader for a period of time, but if you're following right principles, 70 00:05:00.990 --> 00:05:05.509 those first principles that are really going to drive your business, on the far 71 00:05:05.709 --> 00:05:08.899 side of that, once you get through that period of time, you're going 72 00:05:08.899 --> 00:05:12.819 to have far more respect and I think that's that economy of in time. 73 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:15.500 You start a business, you know sticking to your guns. Sometimes you want 74 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:18.899 to hear that your idea is contrarian and people don't believe you can make it 75 00:05:19.060 --> 00:05:23.810 work and that you're going to fail. Those are often times the best ideas 76 00:05:23.930 --> 00:05:27.089 that, when you see them through, help you find, you know, 77 00:05:27.209 --> 00:05:30.050 fertile new ground that other people aren't occupying. So you almost have to become 78 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:35.600 familiar, especially in startup mode, with this idea that you're walking this ridge 79 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:40.480 line on the one side is certain death and the other side is the promised 80 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.879 land. Yes, and you have this level of fear, but that, 81 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:46.920 if you have the belief that you're going to get through that. Those are 82 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:49.709 the kind of characteristics that are I think it'd be predictive if you'll be around 83 00:05:49.709 --> 00:05:54.310 a long time. HMM, the ability for a leader to go through a 84 00:05:54.430 --> 00:06:00.230 season where they're disliked. You can easily romanticize leadership when you're not sitting in 85 00:06:00.389 --> 00:06:03.189 that seat and think of all of the perks of being a leader, but 86 00:06:03.269 --> 00:06:09.100 there's obviously clearly seasons like the one you're your boss was walking through. We're 87 00:06:09.139 --> 00:06:12.899 going. I know it's an eight to one. I'm highly outvoted, but 88 00:06:12.939 --> 00:06:17.259 I'm taking the unpopular opinion and that unpopular road, because I'm seeing things that 89 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:19.970 other people aren't seeing, which is a key mark of leadership. Right, 90 00:06:20.290 --> 00:06:26.610 you're leading with vision and you're leading with character and that course that you're paving 91 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.769 for those in your organization, that that's what puts you in that that place 92 00:06:30.889 --> 00:06:34.800 of good leadership. So I really respect that decision, and obviously you do 93 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:38.639 two years and years later, but obviously, seeing it in the moment, 94 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:42.040 I'm sure it was very difficult for you. Huh. Yeah, it was 95 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.199 formative and I think, yes, every leader has a level of authority. 96 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.670 If you run a company or lead a team with people, those types of 97 00:06:48.750 --> 00:06:53.310 people have similar levels of authority, but they all have very different levels of 98 00:06:53.470 --> 00:06:57.790 trust and belief from their team, right and ultimately those are the characteristics that 99 00:06:57.910 --> 00:07:01.060 allow you to succeed and those are the things that when you enter a crisis, 100 00:07:01.779 --> 00:07:04.779 those are the things that are going to really stand out. Now, 101 00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:08.420 your level of authority of what to do next, but does your team believe 102 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:12.339 in you? Do they trust you? HMM. And decisions can be unpopular, 103 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:15.730 but if you've been consistent in the past, people are going to wonder 104 00:07:15.769 --> 00:07:20.649 why are you thinking about making a decision that way and more likely to ultimately 105 00:07:20.730 --> 00:07:27.449 follow that type of decision. So crisis preparation happens long before the crisis actually 106 00:07:27.449 --> 00:07:30.279 occurs. And so that really sets up where we're going to go, because 107 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:34.079 we're going to walk through a few more scenarios that you then faced down the 108 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:39.519 road. But I think you just mentioned something that's critical to say here towards 109 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:44.709 the front end of this episode, which is that crisis has the opportunity for 110 00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:49.269 resilience to be kind of birth there. But if you don't have a culture 111 00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:55.069 that's already set up to think that way, crisis obviously clearly can also destroy 112 00:07:55.189 --> 00:07:58.470 you. Right Chuck. Absolutely. I think that's well signed, Benjie, 113 00:07:58.550 --> 00:08:05.220 and I think it's why in business there's so many dimensions to leadership and that's 114 00:08:05.259 --> 00:08:07.660 what really makes it fun. It's the ability to look around the corner to 115 00:08:07.779 --> 00:08:11.889 know that you're probably going to face crisis. If you think you're getting into 116 00:08:11.889 --> 00:08:16.449 business or getting into leadership and you're not going to have neardeath experiences, for 117 00:08:16.490 --> 00:08:20.050 lack of a better description, then it's probably not the right role for you. 118 00:08:20.209 --> 00:08:24.689 But if you prepare yourself and you do the kind of things that get 119 00:08:24.689 --> 00:08:28.519 you ready for that, you'll get through those. Okay, so you've learned 120 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:33.480 some of this by going through crisis, but let's talk about crisis preparation for 121 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.600 a minute. What's been key to you, when things are going well, 122 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.429 to be thinking about, Hey, I know another crisis will hit at some 123 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:43.710 point. Let's have our team ready. What are some of the things you're 124 00:08:43.710 --> 00:08:46.549 thinking about in those seasons when crisis hasn't hit yet, but you know your 125 00:08:46.629 --> 00:08:50.149 you have to have your team ready. This could be a really long conversation 126 00:08:50.309 --> 00:08:54.029 and it's one of my favorite topics. And, for example, you can 127 00:08:54.230 --> 00:09:00.340 think about your business model and think about is it anti fragile, and that 128 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:03.139 means, for example, do you manage your cash well you have you thought 129 00:09:03.139 --> 00:09:07.019 about having a reserve? Do you have the ability to have some level of 130 00:09:07.059 --> 00:09:11.929 variable comp that you could pull back comp but have people understand if the changes 131 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:16.649 occurred? Are you very team based? Do you know how to collaborate, 132 00:09:16.690 --> 00:09:20.370 especially when you're under pressure and there's some anxiety where people might not be as 133 00:09:20.409 --> 00:09:24.679 willing to speak up or to stand out? So there are a lot of 134 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:31.000 just real practical steps that you can take to prepare your business for crisis that 135 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.639 actually make you better as well in the good times. We actually assess people's 136 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.830 personalities and how are they under pressure, and we're all just kind under pressure 137 00:09:41.110 --> 00:09:43.710 are you and I are socially on this call might be very different of how 138 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.350 we each would be under pressure. Some people get really calm, some people 139 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:52.100 become introverted, some people become extroverted, some people really like to gather and 140 00:09:52.419 --> 00:09:56.700 by knowing how people are under pressure, we actually can look across her team 141 00:09:56.779 --> 00:10:01.899 and get very consistent reactions. There's the cheerleader and the people that are positive, 142 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:03.539 and there's some people you just see it in their faces. They're thinking 143 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:07.889 and they're wondering. You know, and we and we like those kind of 144 00:10:07.970 --> 00:10:11.049 people as well. So all of those are steps you can take to survive 145 00:10:11.529 --> 00:10:16.090 when the challenge is going to be presented to you. Okay, so one 146 00:10:16.129 --> 00:10:18.490 more question before we get onto this. The second scenario, in the second 147 00:10:18.529 --> 00:10:22.360 situation where you face crisis, when you know the culture of your team and 148 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:26.919 you know certain people respond certain ways, is it just so that you kind 149 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:31.200 of know what to expected, or are there things that you're inviting the team 150 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.519 into in order to grow and how they kind of think about crisis management and 151 00:10:35.710 --> 00:10:39.710 resilience? Like you're inviting them into a different way to respond? What does 152 00:10:39.789 --> 00:10:43.629 that look like once you have that knowledge? Yeah, that knowledge actually started 153 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:48.950 from our desire to be a very creative business and understanding when people can do 154 00:10:48.029 --> 00:10:52.539 their best work. In knowing that when your stressed or constrained, most people 155 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:56.980 are thirty to forty percent less productive. So then knowing what those triggers are 156 00:10:56.059 --> 00:11:01.539 for people there's value. And just the Daytoday, some people like a lot 157 00:11:01.580 --> 00:11:03.649 of autonomy, some people like a lot of close management, those kinds of 158 00:11:03.730 --> 00:11:07.769 things. In one version the person's understressed. The other version loves to be 159 00:11:09.129 --> 00:11:11.649 connected with every single day. Some people say it micromanagement. So in the 160 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:16.570 process of doing that we found that we could figure out what our resolve was 161 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:22.000 long before the crisis hit because we knew what the diversity of the team was. 162 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:26.600 And they're just practical ways to do that. We just use an online 163 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:31.200 assessment that we then have everyone in the company know what everyone's profile is, 164 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:33.190 because there's not a bad profile, it's just who you are as a person. 165 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:37.710 And then you when you approach the person, you know how to approach 166 00:11:37.789 --> 00:11:41.350 them. In crisis there are certain people you approach one way and there's another 167 00:11:41.389 --> 00:11:45.190 way for other kinds of people, and we know that ahead of time and 168 00:11:45.269 --> 00:11:48.620 we spend time together as a team. Allow what's a quarter. We try 169 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:52.019 to spend a couple of hours together just reconnecting with who we all are as 170 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:58.860 people, and that time in that investment really pastied and in these key moments 171 00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:01.809 of time yeah, I heard someone talking about have you heard of the platinum 172 00:12:01.850 --> 00:12:05.649 rule? I haven't. Okay, so I hadn't either. I literally just 173 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:09.769 heard about this this week. So maybe we'll start hearing more about this in 174 00:12:09.889 --> 00:12:13.649 business. But obviously we know the golden rule, like do on to others 175 00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:16.639 as you would have them do on to you. The platinum rule, the 176 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.159 idea behind it is do onto others as they would want it done onto them. 177 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.679 So well, I let you're hitting on that exact point right there. 178 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.399 Is that sometimes we treat people how in crisis, how we would want to 179 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.470 be treated, but because they have a different response, we're not treating them 180 00:12:33.750 --> 00:12:37.309 how they need to be treated right. We don't. As leaders, we 181 00:12:37.389 --> 00:12:41.789 don't communicate to their communication style, we don't lead in a way that really 182 00:12:41.909 --> 00:12:46.860 works for them and lends itself well to how they're wired. And so you're 183 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:48.980 touching right on it. I had just recently heard about it, so maybe 184 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:52.100 we'll start hearing more of the PLATINU rule. I had never heard of it, 185 00:12:52.179 --> 00:12:54.740 but I love that point, Chuck. All right, let's go to 186 00:12:56.259 --> 00:13:01.570 a second time of crisis that you experienced. Really this will be the first 187 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:03.970 one we highlight where you had actually stepped out, you had started marketing architects. 188 00:13:05.730 --> 00:13:09.370 Give us. I guess when we first talked about this you brought up 189 00:13:09.009 --> 00:13:15.559 eleven and I had never thought about the impact, honestly, that it had 190 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.600 on the marketing industry. But it had tremendous impact. So walk me through 191 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:26.919 sort of the crisis that obviously you were faced with and some of what happens 192 00:13:26.429 --> 00:13:31.509 after right. We are now in our fourth year. So we had revenue, 193 00:13:31.029 --> 00:13:35.230 we had clients, we hadate clients at the time and we were not 194 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:37.870 out of the woods yet, but we had some momentum and I was in 195 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:41.500 the air of the morning of nine hundred and eleven when the first plane hit 196 00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:45.860 the tower and so we were grounded in Kansas City. That's as far as 197 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:50.460 they got and we quickly went inside the terminal and we saw on the screen 198 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:54.730 the second plane hitting the second tower and the first concern we all had was 199 00:13:54.850 --> 00:14:00.769 everyone safety in the airport and the people around us, and our office is 200 00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:03.370 really worried about us. If you remember, there was training of some of 201 00:14:03.409 --> 00:14:07.690 the terrasts that occurred in Minneapolis. I could have been very likely on one 202 00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:11.720 of the planes that was destined for a tower or some other place, and 203 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.879 so we were thankful, but we quickly took action. We figured we weren't 204 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.879 going to be able to fly. So we got two hurts and already there's 205 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:22.919 a longline forming for people to rent cars and the gentleman in front of me 206 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.950 was renting. They asked where he's going and he said Washington DC, and 207 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.350 he said when are you getting back and he said I don't know yet, 208 00:14:31.429 --> 00:14:33.750 and he opened his idea and nose are it was an FBI badge. So 209 00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:39.179 they are already mobilizing people from around the country to get to the center of 210 00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:45.139 where all the disasters happened. So we knew it was very serious and on 211 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:48.740 the way back we were talking to the Home Office. Clients are already calling 212 00:14:48.820 --> 00:14:52.340 us because advertising, for the most part, was paused across all major media 213 00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:56.169 channels. So we had to have a practical discussion. What's going to happen 214 00:14:56.169 --> 00:15:00.250 if advertising doesn't come back. We no one knew where this was going to 215 00:15:00.289 --> 00:15:03.690 go, where they're going to be more attacks, and clients for telling us 216 00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:07.129 they were going to pause all our advertising for a period of time and we 217 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.240 were worried about that because we did not have the cash flow to survive very 218 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:13.720 long. So over those next couple of days we got on line with our 219 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.240 clients because there was still no advertising taking place. We had long discussions about 220 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:24.350 I felt we should continue to lean forward and move forward and continue to advertise 221 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:28.470 and continue to be part of the solution, part of the economy. Seven 222 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:31.789 or eight advertisers agreed, but one didn't. So that left us in a 223 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.669 place needing to replace a client. So what we tried to do is we 224 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:39.220 tried to get the very first flight out of Minneapolis the day flight started. 225 00:15:39.580 --> 00:15:41.580 Think those four or five days later. We couldn't get flight number one, 226 00:15:41.620 --> 00:15:46.379 but we were like in flight number twenty or thirty when we flew to Washington 227 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.009 DC, the dollars airport where one of the planes took off and we were 228 00:15:50.090 --> 00:15:54.049 the only two passengers on the plane. Nobody was flying yet. Wow, 229 00:15:54.129 --> 00:15:58.649 food Washington. We drove to the Pentacon to pay our respects and then we 230 00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:02.570 did a cold call with the prospect we had and we showed up and they 231 00:16:02.610 --> 00:16:03.840 raise their hands. What are you doing? Why are you here? They 232 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.000 were upset at first and we said we're here to pay our respects, we're 233 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.000 also here to talk to you about advertising. We ended up having lunch with 234 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.039 this company and by the time we left that afternoon we had another advertiser. 235 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.440 When we win in the Dollis Airport, I think we only saw five or 236 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:22.549 six people in this entire airport. People are very afraid to fly. So 237 00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:29.509 we got back and we're very worried about what was going to happen to performance 238 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:32.750 in our advertising. So we had to guarantee results to our clients because they 239 00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:36.659 still were afraid to be on air. So when we started to see results 240 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:40.179 come in, we are getting like twice or sometimes three times the amount of 241 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:44.820 response we normally expect. HMM, now we're panic that maybe our orders were 242 00:16:44.860 --> 00:16:48.210 running more than they should, since not many people are advertising. So we 243 00:16:48.289 --> 00:16:51.450 started called stations. They said no, we're running the normal load that you 244 00:16:51.570 --> 00:16:56.009 order, and we quickly realized that people were ordering at double and triple the 245 00:16:56.049 --> 00:17:00.169 rate. So Americans, yes, they were concerned about terrorism, but but 246 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:06.440 commercial speech and shopping. It's part of our DNA. So we thought when 247 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:08.279 this first went down, first of my safe. Second, are we even 248 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.559 going to be able to be a going concern? Where our clients even going 249 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:14.519 to get through this? We thought they might all cancel on a long term 250 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.470 basis and we'd have othershes to deal with. So not only did we keep 251 00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:22.349 seven of Eight on, we landed an eighth client and that was our fastest 252 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:26.309 growth. Ears still to this date that were other people are hunkered down and 253 00:17:26.430 --> 00:17:30.940 not advertising. Response was through the roof for many, many, many months, 254 00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:33.700 and that was even at a time where direct response wasn't as popular as 255 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:37.859 it certainly is now. But people are taking every opportunity to shop and buy 256 00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:41.859 and to live a normal life. And so what we really learned was where 257 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:47.089 we thought, on one hand, this could be the end and everyone was 258 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:49.369 saying you got to hunker down, you just got to stick to your knitting, 259 00:17:51.009 --> 00:17:52.890 you have to let this blow over, wheeling into that and we found 260 00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:56.690 there was clear space out there. Other people weren't traveling, other people weren't 261 00:17:56.690 --> 00:18:00.839 prospecting, other people were in trying to grow their clients businesses. Every one 262 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.960 of our clients that year reported that that was their best year out of any 263 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.680 number of prioriars, as well as those next few years when things got back 264 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.150 to some sense of normalcy. So that was just a great lesson that you 265 00:18:15.269 --> 00:18:18.710 know, you can make really good things happen again. You have to have 266 00:18:18.829 --> 00:18:22.349 belief. But in a crisis there's going to be clear space, there's going 267 00:18:22.349 --> 00:18:26.710 to be opportunity. Often that isn't going to be available in normal times and 268 00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:30.180 we are able to find those, those positive moments in a period where people 269 00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:36.660 are really worried. Yeah, really worried and clearly making a different decision than 270 00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:41.420 the one you made. So you don't have like a bunch of examples to 271 00:18:41.490 --> 00:18:45.009 follow and go okay, we can just kind of early adopt. You're kind 272 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:49.009 of having to straight up be the forerunner and do something different. I wonder 273 00:18:49.410 --> 00:18:53.250 what gave you. Was it something internal chuck for you, or you were 274 00:18:53.289 --> 00:19:00.000 just like everyone's zigging and working a Zag? What leads to that different mentality 275 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.519 where you're going no, we need to get on one of the first flights 276 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:03.920 out, we need to go to DC, we need to pay our respects, 277 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.920 we need to actually get in front of a customer when most people are 278 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.390 doing, you know, the opposite. Yeah, I think it helps that 279 00:19:12.470 --> 00:19:18.069 I've been in advertising my entire career and I just really believe there's value and 280 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:22.470 commercial speech and there's value in communication and there's value and branding. You know, 281 00:19:22.549 --> 00:19:26.380 think about the power of a brand where you take a product that and 282 00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:30.420 you make an add that makes people like the product better. They get more 283 00:19:30.460 --> 00:19:34.259 enjoyment from it. You're building their brand and you didn't have to chop another 284 00:19:34.299 --> 00:19:38.210 tree down or burn moyl oil or add more natural resources to the mix, 285 00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:41.690 just that people start to enjoy more. So I've just been a fan in 286 00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:45.849 general of advertising and it just never occurred to me in a period of crisis 287 00:19:45.890 --> 00:19:51.890 that we cut out that part of our economy totally, that people find value, 288 00:19:51.970 --> 00:19:55.839 that people still shop for fun, they love to research products, they 289 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.839 love to be informed. Yeah, there are times you want avoid the ads 290 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.319 in the content that you're watching. That is true, and there's bad advertising, 291 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.549 that is true, but good advertising done well offers value. So I 292 00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:11.549 came from that place. I came from that place. And yes, we 293 00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:15.069 were worried about was there going to be another terrorist attack? And there's going 294 00:20:15.109 --> 00:20:18.789 to be potential other challenges going on, but I'm not in control of that. 295 00:20:18.309 --> 00:20:22.900 Yep, control the controllables. We controlled what we could control and we 296 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:29.059 can control how we responded and I didn't take on it's the old circle of 297 00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:33.140 influence and circle concern. We could have been very concerned about everything, but 298 00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:36.650 we stayed concerned about the things that we could influence and we did our part 299 00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:40.490 to keep the economy going and I feel great and our clients were really rewarded 300 00:20:40.569 --> 00:20:45.289 for that and ultimately we had a very fast growth year and we are able 301 00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:48.930 to hire good people. Just all of it turned out to be a very 302 00:20:48.970 --> 00:20:52.440 scary time to a real net positive for our industry. So for us, 303 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:56.119 the people in our industry that leaned into that, and for our clients. 304 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:02.640 HMM. Yeah, crisis builds resilience, but also it gives you an opportunity 305 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.750 to choose your response, and you just touched on that and that's something we 306 00:21:04.829 --> 00:21:10.829 definitely should highlight here in this episode. If there's some one takeaway we have 307 00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:15.349 in times of crisis, it's evaluating and reevaluating our attitudes towards circumstances and choosing 308 00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:19.500 how we respond, choosing our actions and, like chuck just set, controlling 309 00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:25.220 what you can control, which it leads to an interesting switch as we go 310 00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:30.099 into a third crisis you experienced, because what's unique about what you said coming 311 00:21:30.099 --> 00:21:37.250 out of eleven, I could understand how people still need to advertise. It's 312 00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:41.170 a very unique situation when we're talking about terrorism in this ex essential threat. 313 00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:45.289 But the two thousand and eight economic crash is one where when you just think 314 00:21:45.369 --> 00:21:51.920 intuitively, okay, the economy crashed, so advertising and people spending your you 315 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.880 like. How you pivot from that is vastly different. It's a completely different 316 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.480 type of crisis, and so you experienced something very different and had a very 317 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.789 unique response. Walk me through the two thousand and eight economy crash and the 318 00:22:06.069 --> 00:22:10.109 the crisis you had to deal with in the wake of that. Yeah, 319 00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:12.750 so now I'm going to point in my career I'm feeling and getting good with 320 00:22:12.990 --> 00:22:18.220 crisis. We've been rewarded for how we've addressed crisis. And so the economy 321 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:23.220 hits, we had a lot of high ticket, high considered purchase clients that, 322 00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:26.700 when the economy crashed, they went away. We had a couple clients 323 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.849 are our mortgage companies. They called US and said we're done. HMM. 324 00:22:30.049 --> 00:22:34.529 People weren't originating mortgages, they weren't refinancing their home. So we saw a 325 00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:40.410 significant loss of clients almost immediately, or at least over a two or three 326 00:22:40.410 --> 00:22:44.130 month period of time, and we had faith that we're going to prevail through 327 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:47.599 all of that. So we stayed the course and a year went by and 328 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:51.799 we weren't regaining any met revenue that we lost. We had started from a 329 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:56.240 period of healthy profits, because we now are well into our some of our 330 00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.190 really great growth years. So we didn't need to lay anyone off. We 331 00:22:59.309 --> 00:23:00.829 need to make we didn't have to make adjustments, we just took the hit 332 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:06.349 to revenue and profitability. A second year went by. We still want recovering. 333 00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:11.789 So now we're starting to get worried that our faith and the calm that 334 00:23:11.869 --> 00:23:15.500 we showed that maybe we should have been responding to this more than we were. 335 00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:18.819 We just felt like the economy was going to come back, our clients 336 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.859 were going to come back, and that wasn't happening and we didn't know what 337 00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:29.730 to do. And we saw, though, that consumers were shifting their purchases 338 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:34.690 to less considered purchases, better value purchases, lower ticket purchases. They still 339 00:23:34.730 --> 00:23:38.210 needed a grocery shop, of course, but instead of buying a whole beauty 340 00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:41.200 regiment, they were still buying lipstick, for example. In the beauty space, 341 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.000 okay and but we had no experience with that. We were more experience 342 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.880 with high ticket, high considered purchases. That still hadn't come back. So 343 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.519 we did something crazy. We said, you know what, we need to 344 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.549 get and gain experience and better value lower ticket items. We don't have it 345 00:23:56.630 --> 00:24:00.589 as an agency. The techniques and ways that you market products like that are 346 00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:04.309 different, the offers are different, the creativities different and we didn't have experience 347 00:24:04.390 --> 00:24:07.630 with that. We're having trouble to convincing people that we could help them without 348 00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:12.539 that type of experience. So we decided to look across the product landscape. 349 00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:18.740 We evaluated a hundred different products and we decided to launch a few of our 350 00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:22.500 own products, trying to find a winner. So we thought we'd have to 351 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:26.369 test ten or fifteen things to have success. We tested five things and two 352 00:24:26.410 --> 00:24:30.410 worked. The one I'm most excited to talk about is the hurricane. We 353 00:24:30.569 --> 00:24:33.930 spend time looking at how do we innovate and create a new category of Kane? 354 00:24:34.609 --> 00:24:37.250 At that time, a cane basically had been a stick for thousand of 355 00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:41.279 years. If you looked online or in a store, it was a usually 356 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:45.480 a round handle with a straight shaft and you would walk with it. Yep, 357 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.200 and we found that was nearly optimal. So we put our creative hats 358 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:55.670 on and we learned all sorts of things. We learned that seniors didn't change 359 00:24:55.710 --> 00:24:59.029 their favorite color to gray as soon as they became sixteen older. The they 360 00:24:59.029 --> 00:25:03.990 still loved color. They still love to be inspired, they still love to 361 00:25:03.029 --> 00:25:07.700 be mobile, and we brought all of that to the development of a whole 362 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:10.700 new category of Kane that if you look at the walking Kane category, it's 363 00:25:10.740 --> 00:25:15.019 been transformed through our efforts. We had to do product development, design, 364 00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:19.140 we had a source this internationally. We dealt with logistics, we stood up 365 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:22.849 a website, we did all the channels outside of the channel that we were 366 00:25:22.890 --> 00:25:26.089 doing at the time, which is TV. So we we learned all the 367 00:25:26.170 --> 00:25:30.609 cross channel marketing techniques. We learned about returns, we learned about the whole 368 00:25:30.650 --> 00:25:36.920 thing credit card processing and it became a very successful brand that it took off. 369 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.519 Three years later we sold that to drive medical and in that process we 370 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:45.279 regained our Mojo as an agency. Yes, there's tremendous amounts of capability that 371 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.799 we didn't need, but we needed have an understanding of our clients businesses and 372 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.069 we gained it by being a client our self. We're still very proud of 373 00:25:52.190 --> 00:25:56.950 building a product that's been very transformative to the mobility category. The issue when 374 00:25:56.950 --> 00:26:00.349 you start to age and lose mobility, you take too long before you get 375 00:26:00.390 --> 00:26:06.619 some help, and following is the number one reason a senior enters the hospital. 376 00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:10.940 Over half of hissits are falling. So they don't take enough time to 377 00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:14.220 be attentive to when they need mobility help, and we really help that. 378 00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:18.420 We had just thousands and thousands of testimonials. That said, you saved my 379 00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:22.650 life. You gave me the courage to use some assistance to maintain my mobility. 380 00:26:22.849 --> 00:26:26.769 You help me move again. You gave me mobility. I was afraid 381 00:26:26.809 --> 00:26:30.130 to move about. I was embarrassed to use the traditional kine and I'm proud 382 00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:33.279 to use this. So we regained our Mojo, we regained an updated our 383 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.839 marketing tactics. You know, we built some new capabilities to improve the funnel 384 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.839 for our clients. You know, we improved our creativity. So all of 385 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.150 that. Then we exited that and gave us some clear sailing that we really 386 00:26:47.190 --> 00:26:51.230 used to leverage to build. I would say, stay in the core as 387 00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:55.029 long as we did. We were too patient. So there's your catch twenty 388 00:26:55.069 --> 00:27:00.470 two. To you don't want to react in crisis mode without thinking through your 389 00:27:00.470 --> 00:27:03.980 actions, but you probably wanted to take more reaction than we did. Two 390 00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:07.339 years was too long to rethink our model. That was too much faith to 391 00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:12.339 have that things were coming back. So we're excited about the speed that that 392 00:27:12.460 --> 00:27:15.529 brought into organization because the amount of work we had to do it to launch 393 00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:18.769 a brand like that from the ground up. We were having to make decisions 394 00:27:18.809 --> 00:27:22.690 that we've watched clients take, you know, months to make, that we 395 00:27:22.769 --> 00:27:26.369 had to make in minutes because otherwise we never would have had this thing live 396 00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:30.359 and growing and it stimulated a level of progress again from that crisis that we've 397 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:34.960 never looked back from. It's gotten us to the next level. We could 398 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:40.839 obviously spend an entire episode just on that story and breaking that down, but 399 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.829 I think it's so valuable to press in on a couple pieces of that that 400 00:27:47.069 --> 00:27:52.309 I find very interesting. One you say now, in hindsight, two years 401 00:27:52.430 --> 00:27:56.670 was too long. I would say it's a great lesson for everybody listening, 402 00:27:56.750 --> 00:28:00.700 because a lot of people two years in wouldn't be willing. I mean they 403 00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:03.339 be all, oh, shoot, we're losing all, you know, like 404 00:28:03.460 --> 00:28:07.380 it's not coming back. They're waking up to it, but they're not going. 405 00:28:07.539 --> 00:28:10.299 We're going to innovate in a completely brand new space that we know nothing 406 00:28:10.339 --> 00:28:14.089 about. That would just be a moment where people throw up their hands, 407 00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:18.529 almost going back to your first example when you're outvoted eight to one. It's 408 00:28:18.529 --> 00:28:21.089 just kind of like, well, we could you know, it just feels 409 00:28:21.130 --> 00:28:23.569 like one of those types of pivot moments where you've been doing it one way 410 00:28:23.609 --> 00:28:27.480 for two years and now we're choosing, we're making a conscious decision to do 411 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:33.079 something different, completely different, out of the scope of what would maybe even 412 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:37.519 be normal. So one question that I have hearing you say that story, 413 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.119 Chuck, is just take me back to the creative meeting where that gets thrown 414 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.309 around, like how do you come up with we're going to evaluate these products? 415 00:28:45.910 --> 00:28:51.109 How does that become even an option for you guys to do something like 416 00:28:51.150 --> 00:28:56.420 that? Yeah, now I thinking back, I do remember we were aligned 417 00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:03.619 as an executive team. It felt like a crazy idea, but we had 418 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:07.019 a hundred percent alignment that we should do it. I joked years later with 419 00:29:07.099 --> 00:29:08.619 our head of creative I said I were you really on board with that, 420 00:29:10.369 --> 00:29:15.210 and he said I was, because I know that even if we were wrong, 421 00:29:15.369 --> 00:29:18.970 we would make it happen and make it right. He had that much 422 00:29:18.049 --> 00:29:22.730 faith in the company and that's why he said such a great cure with marketing 423 00:29:22.809 --> 00:29:30.079 architects. So yeah, we really were reflective, I guess, and you 424 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.640 know, we went for something that a lot of people wouldn't recommend doing. 425 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:37.119 It would be considered outside of your core but it stimulated progress we never would 426 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:38.710 have been able to do if we just were sticking to our knitting and stick 427 00:29:38.750 --> 00:29:44.950 into our core business. So I always think about advice being right for the 428 00:29:45.029 --> 00:29:48.069 time. Not all advice works at all times. So, for example, 429 00:29:48.069 --> 00:29:52.309 when you start a company, you're told you need to delegate as fast as 430 00:29:52.309 --> 00:29:56.019 you can, but in reality, a founder she stay very close to things 431 00:29:56.859 --> 00:30:00.140 because those are the things that are going to trip you up. If you're 432 00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:02.779 not aware of everything going on, if you stay too close to things for 433 00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:06.500 too long, well then your micromanagy and you're going to lose your key people. 434 00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:10.170 If you're at a large corporation, you never want to micromanage under any 435 00:30:10.210 --> 00:30:14.809 circumstance. You work through your team at all times. So management advice and 436 00:30:14.930 --> 00:30:18.289 crisis advice can be a little different based on the type of crisis, the 437 00:30:18.410 --> 00:30:23.119 age of the company and where you're at. I think the key is to 438 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:27.039 have faith that you're going to prevail and but to go after it in a 439 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:33.680 way that it clearly has, a way that it's bold enough that you're going 440 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:40.109 to use that to get through the crisis. And sometimes no reaction is bold 441 00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:44.430 and sometimes a complete change is bold. And if you consider that and you 442 00:30:44.509 --> 00:30:47.670 get alignment with your team, I think you're going to have a lot greater 443 00:30:47.710 --> 00:30:52.660 chance of being successful in navigating the challenge you're facing. Yeah, alignment transfers 444 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:56.859 crisis to crisis. Response is going to change right the medium of the things 445 00:30:56.900 --> 00:31:00.339 we use, the tools we use, the all of that stuff is is 446 00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:06.049 up in the year, year to year, moments moment sometimes. But I 447 00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:11.130 love that because mindset and alignment are things that we ultimately can bring to the 448 00:31:11.250 --> 00:31:15.329 table and and benefit from. And I love it again. We're going crisis 449 00:31:15.369 --> 00:31:21.119 builds resilience, but in this situation, crisis also builds creativity, and crisis 450 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:25.839 allowed for things that weren't in the normal purview, allowed for you to learn 451 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.720 things and try things that then made you closer to your customers in the long 452 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.630 term. So when we look at crisis and our attitude in our mindset going 453 00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:40.750 into it. Leaving this episode right, we we could be thinking what can 454 00:31:40.829 --> 00:31:45.150 I see creatively now that I'm in crisis or having to respond to crisis, 455 00:31:45.269 --> 00:31:49.339 that I couldn't if this experience wasn't happening to me, wasn't happening to our 456 00:31:49.420 --> 00:31:53.980 company? The creativity that comes in those moments is, I think, a 457 00:31:55.099 --> 00:31:57.619 blessing in disguise, if you allow it to be. Let's push this conversation 458 00:31:57.819 --> 00:32:04.329 forward. Chuck to one final crisis which we all experienced here in the last 459 00:32:04.329 --> 00:32:07.890 few years, which is covid. Tell me a little bit about what Covid 460 00:32:07.970 --> 00:32:13.289 is taught you and your response in in the wake of obviously a being a 461 00:32:13.329 --> 00:32:17.680 global pandemic. Yeah, I think we all know the story hasn't been fully 462 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:23.839 written on Covid. So I think we all have to be careful and understanding 463 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.960 that there's still a future we have to navigate. But that being said, 464 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:34.549 there's definitely a history now behind us and it also was a crisis for almost 465 00:32:34.549 --> 00:32:37.829 all industries. We saw clients that were not essential. Industries had a shutdown, 466 00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:43.390 so we had the same impact to revenue that we had in the O 467 00:32:43.910 --> 00:32:47.779 financial meltdown, and so it had all the same kind of challenges. The 468 00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:52.220 difference, of course, was the government stepped into intervene to bring back the 469 00:32:52.299 --> 00:32:57.859 economy faster than any of us thought would be possible. But we had now 470 00:32:57.940 --> 00:33:01.690 had a lot of history to how to respond to this and we were amazing. 471 00:33:01.930 --> 00:33:07.490 I think I never had to speak to the company. Every executive just 472 00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:10.569 knew how to lead. The teams were prepared. We all went home, 473 00:33:12.289 --> 00:33:16.240 we all got to work. People said they felt more aligned than ever because 474 00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:20.720 we were zooming, staying in touch, we were communicating, we're using all 475 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:25.079 of our TEX STAC to its fullest and we knew we had to recover revenue, 476 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.470 but we've done that many times. We thought client first. So how 477 00:33:30.509 --> 00:33:34.029 do we help their business? And we have a lot of capabilities to help 478 00:33:34.069 --> 00:33:38.710 our clients and we deployed those. We tracked workload. Our workload was triple 479 00:33:39.390 --> 00:33:44.500 what it was pretty wowvid. So we can look at number of orders in 480 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:47.059 the system and those such things, and the team was willing to do that 481 00:33:47.180 --> 00:33:55.849 work, all the while navigating childcare changes, navigating family dynamics that were changing, 482 00:33:57.089 --> 00:34:00.529 finding finding space of where to office in their home and all of that. 483 00:34:00.809 --> 00:34:05.809 So we were amazing and that we were well prepared for that. Our 484 00:34:05.890 --> 00:34:10.039 clients quickly rebounded. We quickly found there were a lot of people that could 485 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:15.320 benefit from the pandemic. They were in essential industries and they were looking to 486 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.280 market and grow their company and we picked up a lot of business amongst those 487 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:24.150 types of clients and we had a really good year over all, not initially 488 00:34:24.429 --> 00:34:28.150 where we took a big hit to revenue, but we ended up the year 489 00:34:29.150 --> 00:34:32.949 in a really good spot. We stayed positive, we stayed calm, we 490 00:34:34.070 --> 00:34:37.389 were very decentralized. We let as many people make decisions as possible, knowing 491 00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:42.179 that they were close to the client, they're close to processes and they were 492 00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:46.460 going to be responsible people and it was the best time that I've ever seen 493 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:52.019 in my history and business of a team stay in calm but still making bold 494 00:34:52.059 --> 00:34:54.610 decisions. We decided early on, just a couple months into this, that 495 00:34:54.650 --> 00:34:58.809 we were going to be at work from anywhere full time company. We had 496 00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:01.130 beautiful class a office space, but, you'd expect from a great agency, 497 00:35:01.929 --> 00:35:06.210 it was covered by local media because we did the lunch thing on site and 498 00:35:06.250 --> 00:35:09.559 all sorts of crazy things that you'd expect that an agency. We left that 499 00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:14.320 all behind. We are more productive in this new environment. We've now hired, 500 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:16.760 I think we're up to thirty five people around the country. We have 501 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.469 a more diverse team, we have a bigger variety of talents. So we 502 00:35:21.949 --> 00:35:24.789 decided to use our experience and let's make some bold decisions and really lean into 503 00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:30.190 this period of time that some people would call a crisis. But you know, 504 00:35:30.349 --> 00:35:31.829 how do we contribute? How do we change? How do we do 505 00:35:31.949 --> 00:35:37.980 things differently? And yet I didn't make those bold choices. It's been fun 506 00:35:37.059 --> 00:35:43.500 to see that happen across the company. It's been fun to see people's personalities 507 00:35:43.539 --> 00:35:46.380 come out in new ways. People that maybe we're in a board room with 508 00:35:46.659 --> 00:35:50.809 fourteen, fifteen people in a meeting that we're afraid to participate now get in 509 00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:53.489 a Gazoom call where we're all equal because we're a little square earth, and 510 00:35:54.050 --> 00:35:59.449 now we're contributing. You know, we let people moderate meetings that hadn't been 511 00:35:59.489 --> 00:36:02.530 stepping up to do that. So it's been just a time where we've just 512 00:36:02.650 --> 00:36:07.920 seen everyone dig deep into their talents and be able to use those. We 513 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:13.079 had our best growth year now last year, coming off covid and so again 514 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:19.269 we've used the crisis to make some bold decisions and to me it's spend my 515 00:36:19.349 --> 00:36:23.429 best year in business watching other people accomplish great work, and that's ultimately when 516 00:36:23.429 --> 00:36:27.510 you're running a company, if you can get to a place where you worry 517 00:36:27.510 --> 00:36:30.710 about everything but you're not responsible for anything. That's been a great goal and 518 00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:34.420 I think I've really been able to live that truth this year that we've got 519 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.900 an amazing team and this was the last two years, a chance for them 520 00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:40.699 really to step up into lead, in to grow, in to learn, 521 00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:45.420 and they've they've done all of that. So we were very concerned, like 522 00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:50.809 everyone was, when it first hit, but it's been again a boon to 523 00:36:51.610 --> 00:36:54.409 our most of our clients and to our agency. And at the end of 524 00:36:54.409 --> 00:36:59.050 the day, when you're going you're growing your clients businesses, well, you're 525 00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:00.920 going to grow and when you're growing to clients businesses, you're changing lives and 526 00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.679 that, at the end of the day, is the core of our mission 527 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.199 statement. How do we change lives through business growth? And that certainly has 528 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:12.400 happened the last two years. There's one thing you said there that I do 529 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:17.150 want to ask a follow question on. You talk about any leader right could 530 00:37:17.150 --> 00:37:22.550 be very top of the organization or different apartments. But there is a a 531 00:37:22.550 --> 00:37:27.949 level of concern and worried that you sort of have over what's, in your 532 00:37:28.070 --> 00:37:31.300 perview, that's needed as a leader, right, but then there it can 533 00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:36.900 go to maybe all out fear, like you're just trying to micromanage and just 534 00:37:37.059 --> 00:37:40.260 trying to control what's happening. How has that change over the years? For 535 00:37:40.340 --> 00:37:45.929 you, Chuck, to learn some level of health. What does that look 536 00:37:45.929 --> 00:37:50.409 like? So we have some advantage and advertising. We study psychology a lot 537 00:37:50.570 --> 00:37:52.849 and so we get into the brain and the science of the brain and there 538 00:37:53.010 --> 00:37:57.449 is some debate. Most people would agree with the statement, not everyone, 539 00:37:58.090 --> 00:38:01.840 but how we feel as a choice, and so you can plan just and 540 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:07.360 decide how am I going to feel when the next crisis hits, and it's 541 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.960 hard to completely control that. So there might be a period of time that 542 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:15.030 the stress is off the charts. But you have to decide as a company, 543 00:38:15.110 --> 00:38:15.710 how are you going to respond to that? How am I going to 544 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:22.150 choose? Not Fear, but I'm going to choose bold action, and it 545 00:38:22.269 --> 00:38:27.139 definitely is helpful if you have some awareness of how you make choices in your 546 00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:30.739 life, how you feel about things, how you respond to people and practice 547 00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:35.420 that, and if you do, then periods of crisis aren't going to feel 548 00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:38.539 like that, they're going to feel almost like opportunity. I wouldn't push it 549 00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:43.329 all the way that it's just opportunity, because sometimes you come out not as 550 00:38:43.570 --> 00:38:46.889 well as you were prior to the crisis and that's success because you got through 551 00:38:46.929 --> 00:38:52.570 it. But if you can actively make it a choice and then make that 552 00:38:52.650 --> 00:38:58.880 an organization choice, so other people believe that we're making a good choice by 553 00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.679 going after something new, by extending ourself in new ways, and we're not 554 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:06.760 hundered down and they get more empowered, not less empowered. You know, 555 00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.550 you decentralized decision making. All of that leads people to really see the crisis 556 00:39:10.710 --> 00:39:15.829 as more opportunity than crisis and to choose for themselves. Yes, this is 557 00:39:15.909 --> 00:39:21.110 a good thing, and what was great about marketing architects providing stability to people's 558 00:39:21.150 --> 00:39:24.380 lives. Many people were really impacted by this. I'm not diminishing that. 559 00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:30.340 Many people lost family members to this. They dealt with childcare crisis is, 560 00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:34.579 they dealt with family dynamics, they had to navigate, they dealt with a 561 00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:37.340 lot of stuff and that is difficult and I'm proud of the fact that we 562 00:39:37.420 --> 00:39:43.170 could provide some stability through marketing architects, through our company, so that people 563 00:39:43.210 --> 00:39:45.130 could put some time into those other aspects of the lives that they had to 564 00:39:45.170 --> 00:39:49.889 navigate for themselves. And I think if you can do that as a company 565 00:39:50.610 --> 00:39:53.960 and put it in its proper place for people, because it's very few people's 566 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.360 be all, end all goal in life, but it's a key part of 567 00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:00.039 how people live their life. In the fact that we've been able to navigate 568 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:06.119 crisis and not have that creep so far into people's lives that they freeze and 569 00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:09.590 it impacts everything else they do. I think that's that's a real gift of 570 00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:14.710 this topic and thinking about that, so that no one's ever going to have 571 00:40:14.750 --> 00:40:17.349 a hundred percent of their personal life going well. Yet a company can only 572 00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:22.099 help so far with that. So we really I think we're able to keep 573 00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:25.260 our company putting in the right context for people so they could navigate all those 574 00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:29.980 other things. We helped where we could and, for example, great text 575 00:40:29.980 --> 00:40:32.860 support and helping people set up their offices. We change some of our benefit 576 00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:37.210 programs to support people through this. So we certainly are aware where we could 577 00:40:37.210 --> 00:40:40.809 help, but the best help was to provide a great place for people to 578 00:40:40.889 --> 00:40:45.170 come to and feel like there wasn't a crisis. Yeah, Yep. Well, 579 00:40:45.210 --> 00:40:49.449 there's so much I'm taken away from this conversation with you, Chuck. 580 00:40:49.929 --> 00:40:57.079 I'm thinking about how crisis can not only help birth and fuel resilience, but 581 00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.719 how it also can, if we choose to take on a mindset, it 582 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:07.429 can fuel creativity some new levels of unity. How we get to decide what 583 00:41:07.550 --> 00:41:09.949 our attitude is, what our response is, what we see in the midst 584 00:41:09.949 --> 00:41:15.750 of crisis. I think you you touched really well, maybe even not directly 585 00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:21.980 but indirectly, on the power of overcommunication during crisis. So it's something that 586 00:41:22.099 --> 00:41:25.300 happens outside of the moment right it's just becomes part of the culture. But 587 00:41:25.420 --> 00:41:30.179 then, because you naturally have that, then you can overcommunicate when crisis actually 588 00:41:30.219 --> 00:41:34.570 does hit. In that that can help things a lot. You also mentioned 589 00:41:34.610 --> 00:41:37.130 a couple questions I want to highlight here. You said, is my business 590 00:41:37.170 --> 00:41:42.929 anti fragile and are we team based? That's a couple questions that I wrote 591 00:41:42.969 --> 00:41:45.769 down that you said that I think we can be asking ourselves whether you're going 592 00:41:45.809 --> 00:41:50.000 through a crisis right now or not. Just take a valuation of Your Department 593 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:52.920 or Your Company? And those are some great questions that I'm walking away with. 594 00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:58.400 Chuck, thank you for taking time here on be tob growth today. 595 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.869 For those that want to stay connected with you and marketing architects, where can 596 00:42:01.909 --> 00:42:06.750 they do that? Where's best to follow you guys online? For me, 597 00:42:06.869 --> 00:42:09.349 I you can get me up on Linkedin. I'm really responsive there as well 598 00:42:09.349 --> 00:42:13.869 as you can go to marketing Architectscom and you can reach me through there or 599 00:42:13.909 --> 00:42:16.900 any other member of our team. Wonderful. Thank you for taking time and 600 00:42:17.059 --> 00:42:20.500 being on the show today. Awesome. Thank you, Benji. Enjoyed it 601 00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:25.500 well. If you loved this episode, be sure to leave a review or 602 00:42:25.539 --> 00:42:30.969 a rating and you can subscribe wherever you're listening to this. We love to 603 00:42:30.050 --> 00:42:34.730 connect, so you can also find me on Linkedin. Just Search Benjie Block 604 00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:37.969 and I'd love to talk to you about business marketing life and we will be 605 00:42:38.050 --> 00:42:46.199 back very soon with another episode. Keep doing work that matters. Is the 606 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:51.119 decision maker for your product or service, a BEDB MARKETER? Are you looking 607 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:55.599 to reach those buyers through the medium of podcasting? Considered becoming a cohost of 608 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.269 BB growth? This show is consistently ranked as a top one hundred podcast in 609 00:43:00.309 --> 00:43:05.190 the marketing category of Apple Podcasts, and the show gets more than a hundred 610 00:43:05.190 --> 00:43:08.989 and thirty thousand downloads each month. We've already done the work of building the 611 00:43:09.110 --> 00:43:14.860 audience, so you can focus on delivering incredible content to our listeners. If 612 00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:17.260 you're interested, email logan at sweetfish Mediacom