Sept. 19, 2019

#CX 23 - Avoiding Marketing Mistakes While Driving Fast w/ Dave Knox

In this episode of the #CX series, , Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with , an author, speaker, and advisor at  about the best ways to avoid common marketing and branding mistakes, manage a fast-growth company, and find and use...

In this episode of the #CX series, Ethan Beute, Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with Dave Knox, an author, speaker, and advisor at Predicting The Turn about the best ways to avoid common marketing and branding mistakes, manage a fast-growth company, and find and use venture capital.

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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.919 The great marketing teams are the ones where the marketing leader is comfortable enough with 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.910 their own skin that they say, I am great at this and I'm going 3 00:00:07.950 --> 00:00:14.390 to hire somebody better than me in this this and this area. A relationship 4 00:00:14.390 --> 00:00:18.510 with the right referral partner could be a game changer for any BEDB company. 5 00:00:19.109 --> 00:00:23.859 So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships at a moment's notice, start 6 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:29.300 a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be guests on your show and grow 7 00:00:29.379 --> 00:00:39.609 your referral network faster than ever. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're 8 00:00:39.689 --> 00:00:44.329 listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've 9 00:00:44.369 --> 00:00:48.009 interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, 10 00:00:48.369 --> 00:00:52.439 but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the 11 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:57.159 bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests 12 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.560 are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're 13 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:06.150 experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BEDB companies in the world. 14 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:08.670 My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a 15 00:01:08.750 --> 00:01:12.469 podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts of this 16 00:01:12.549 --> 00:01:17.790 show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from 17 00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:21.260 behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of 18 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:25.579 our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, 19 00:01:26.219 --> 00:01:36.609 maybe let's get into the show. Up. Customer experience is anything that directly 20 00:01:36.810 --> 00:01:41.329 touches the customer, everything that the customer sees. Those are the words and 21 00:01:41.450 --> 00:01:45.689 ideas of Dave Knox, our guests on this episode of the B Tob Growth 22 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:49.400 Show. My name is Ethan, but I host the CX series here on 23 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.680 the show. Dave is classically trained in branding and marketing and brings a lot 24 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:59.560 of expertise in that area, and he's currently operating primarily with fast growth companies 25 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:02.909 and venture capital. So we have a great conversation for you. You are 26 00:02:02.909 --> 00:02:06.750 going to learn the pros and cons of different ways to fund a company, 27 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:09.990 you are going to learn about specific improvements that you can make to your customer 28 00:02:10.030 --> 00:02:15.669 experience, especially in a high growth environment, and you're going to get specific 29 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:20.500 marketing mistakes that he sees too many companies making. I hope you enjoy this 30 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.939 episode. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. You're going to 31 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:29.699 love this episode. Our guest works at the intersection of brands and technology, 32 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:34.569 with a focus on startups, seed funding and venture capital. He's currently a 33 00:02:34.689 --> 00:02:38.090 strategic advisor at predicting the turn. He's also a podcast host of the same 34 00:02:38.090 --> 00:02:43.650 name predicting the turn. He's a managing partner at Bind Street ventures, cofounder 35 00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:46.479 at the brandery, which is a tech accelerator, and look forward to learn 36 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.199 a little bit more about that. And also interesting here's that he spent seven 37 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.759 years of CMO at rockfish. This is a company that's owned by WPPA, 38 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:59.229 of formerly known as a global advertising and PR agency, but now they called 39 00:02:59.270 --> 00:03:04.669 themselves a creative transformation agency. I can see that becoming a conversation theme here 40 00:03:04.710 --> 00:03:08.150 today, and so our guest today, Dave knocks. Welcome to the customer 41 00:03:08.189 --> 00:03:13.659 experience podcast. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm really excited about 42 00:03:13.659 --> 00:03:17.259 this. I think there's obviously a lot going on with with brands, technology, 43 00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:23.259 disruption, innovation, and you're kind of in an interesting seat around all 44 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:25.340 of that, especially over the past decade. So I look forward to getting 45 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:28.849 into it. But I want to start where I always start, which is 46 00:03:29.250 --> 00:03:35.210 your definition or your thoughts on customer experience. Yeah, so customer experience, 47 00:03:35.289 --> 00:03:38.050 you're being a brand guy by training. I started my career proctor and gamble 48 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:43.759 back in the day, and I think of customer experience is being everything that's 49 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.759 the front of the House, anything that touches that consumer and can influence how 50 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:52.719 they think about your company, your brand, your business. So that's everything 51 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:59.069 from the essence of the brand design to marketing, to sales to how you 52 00:03:59.189 --> 00:04:02.110 show up at retail. That customer experience is every single one of those touch 53 00:04:02.189 --> 00:04:06.469 points rolled together. That's awesome. You've given me languish that I haven't heard 54 00:04:06.509 --> 00:04:11.099 on this question before and I've asked it dozens of times. It's this clear 55 00:04:11.139 --> 00:04:14.860 delineation between front of House and back of House, back of House being, 56 00:04:14.939 --> 00:04:17.300 of course, two things that most people don't see, in front of House 57 00:04:17.379 --> 00:04:21.220 being, to your point, everything that everyone experiences. So I love that. 58 00:04:21.740 --> 00:04:25.370 So go into your branding background. You know I've had an I've had 59 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:30.410 a couple branding experts on the show and done and I put you a probably 60 00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:32.970 adjacent to, if not in that category. I've let you decide to how 61 00:04:33.009 --> 00:04:36.689 you feel about that. But there seems to be a fair amount of overlap 62 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:43.160 from time to time in talking about customer experience and brand experience or branding. 63 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.519 What do you see the relationship there as being at? Where they similar? 64 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:48.920 Where they different? You have a line between those two, or do you 65 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:54.949 see them as approximately synonymous? Yeah, I think frankly they're. They're similar 66 00:04:54.990 --> 00:05:00.670 in there, if not completely overlapping. Customer Experience is definitely an emerging field 67 00:05:00.829 --> 00:05:02.910 that the language has really only come about, I'd say, in the last 68 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:06.939 decade. You've seen it in the public eye. It wasn't something that when 69 00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:11.620 we were getting the training and branding back in the day, was ever really 70 00:05:11.779 --> 00:05:15.339 talked about. is its own thing. It was just the essence of one 71 00:05:15.379 --> 00:05:17.860 of the things that you had to do. But with the rise of bet 72 00:05:17.980 --> 00:05:21.689 to be marketing and the right of direct to consumer efforts, I think that's 73 00:05:21.730 --> 00:05:27.490 what's given rise to the language of customer experience. But if you're not doing 74 00:05:27.689 --> 00:05:30.170 branding the right way, if you're not thinking about it as part of your 75 00:05:30.250 --> 00:05:35.000 core efforts, there what is the essence of good branding to you? What 76 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:40.759 what is this outcome? If someone is committed to brand building what are the 77 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:45.040 obvious consequences of that? Yeah, so the essence of I think what makes 78 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.839 great branding is evoking emotion, because that's what a brand comes down to. 79 00:05:49.230 --> 00:05:55.389 Is it sparking something in a person when they see what you are here, 80 00:05:55.550 --> 00:05:59.230 what you are when they hear your brand? Do they know something and does 81 00:05:59.269 --> 00:06:01.589 it evoke an emotion with it? And there's a wide range of what that 82 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:06.180 emotion can be, but great branding has thought about that, has dictated it 83 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:11.459 and it's been planned across the board, and it's where it goes back to 84 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:15.860 its being across every touch point. Think about a company like Zappos. You 85 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:18.730 can think a lot of things with it, but essence it's going to be 86 00:06:18.769 --> 00:06:24.449 a great experience. That's probably what you evoke and that feeling of happiness that 87 00:06:24.529 --> 00:06:28.850 goes into it. Love it. The feeling part of it is often something 88 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:31.920 that someone will offer in the definition of customer experience, and so to wrap 89 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.600 both of those together that they are very, very overlapping. This is just 90 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:41.399 a personal curiosity for me. I mean coming up in PNG, I imagine 91 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:46.399 that you got essentially the equivalent of an MBA in your in your onboarding and 92 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:48.310 training. What was that experience like for you and how did that shape your 93 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:53.550 career? Yeah, it's funny you use those, those words of like an 94 00:06:53.589 --> 00:06:57.949 MBA, because for me that's exactly what it was, png especially in brand 95 00:06:57.990 --> 00:07:01.939 management. It's kind of unique place in that probably about ninety two hundred and 96 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:08.259 ninety five percent of my colleagues as assistant brand managers were coming from an MBA 97 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:12.860 program and coming from usually a top tier whether it was a booth or Harvard 98 00:07:12.899 --> 00:07:15.170 or something of that nature. I was a twenty two year old kid coming 99 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:20.970 from a public university with just a bachelor of science and business. So for 100 00:07:21.089 --> 00:07:26.730 me it really really was the MBA, because one of the things that's amazing 101 00:07:26.850 --> 00:07:31.199 of a for five hundred company that invests in their people is you get that 102 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.439 training. You know, probably every week for my first two, if not 103 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:40.240 three years, there was a training that I was going to that would either 104 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.720 be a couple of hours or full day. Every time. When you got 105 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:47.149 promoted, you went to Assistant Brand Manager College, then brand manager college and 106 00:07:47.269 --> 00:07:50.310 so forth and so on, and you know, those were week long of 107 00:07:50.550 --> 00:07:56.110 all day events that they flew everyone in from across the globe that was in 108 00:07:56.230 --> 00:08:00.379 your class, at at your level so for me it really was that MBA, 109 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:05.540 that kind of training. But I think where it was differed from a 110 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:09.980 just a classroom MBA was you combine that learning with the fact at the same 111 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:15.529 time you were putting those principles to work the next day. You weren't just 112 00:08:15.689 --> 00:08:20.129 talking in theory and case studies, but you were owning a twenty million dollar 113 00:08:20.209 --> 00:08:24.610 marketing budget the next day and doing something with it. So that's why, 114 00:08:24.730 --> 00:08:28.519 you know, I do a lot of talks at college campuses and especially when 115 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.320 I talk to entrepreneur students. They want to go start a business right away 116 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.200 at twenty two, and all encourage a lot of them of go find a 117 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:39.759 place that you can get that training first, because me at twenty two made 118 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.429 a lot of mistakes and it was a lot better to be making those mistakes 119 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.509 on the the budget of a several billion dollar company then my tiny budget if 120 00:08:48.509 --> 00:08:52.629 I was an entrepreneur. Right. You know, your error in that context 121 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:56.539 is a rounding error versus an error. With you as that you know, 122 00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:01.740 a twenty two year old maybe start up founder could be fatal. Yes, 123 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:05.100 that's exactly it, and it's one of my first bosses. He said the 124 00:09:05.179 --> 00:09:07.500 great thing he goes. You know, just remember that we've created a system 125 00:09:07.539 --> 00:09:11.129 that has a safety belt on you. So drive the far car as fast 126 00:09:11.129 --> 00:09:15.490 as you can and we know that we've got the seat felt. You'll be 127 00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:18.250 safe. I love it. It's it's such good permission. It sounds like 128 00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:22.129 there's a really good culture there. You like. When I think about are 129 00:09:22.129 --> 00:09:26.320 you familiar with the service profit chain? Loosely but not intimately, it sounds 130 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:30.360 it basically the premises. You know, so many people focus on the far 131 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.440 end of revenue and Growth, but these are outcomes of a whole series of 132 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.669 events that walk back through the customer all the way back to employees, and 133 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:43.990 so the premise is that when you invest in hiring, onboarding, training, 134 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:48.350 developing and you produce a good employee experience, that everything else falls out from 135 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:50.950 there as a consequence. So focus there. Sounds like that was a part 136 00:09:50.990 --> 00:09:54.460 of your experience there at PNG. I'm glad I ask. That's great and 137 00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:58.100 it actually leads me into a pair of questions that I that I had prepared, 138 00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:01.419 which I'll ask. The first what's happening at the intersection of brand and 139 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:07.059 technology from a start up standpoint, and then the and then the follow up 140 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:11.289 is what's happening there from, you know, maybe a fortune five hundred or 141 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:16.610 just a generally a medium or large corporation standpoint. Like at that intersection of 142 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:20.649 Brandon Technology, were kind of live and work and talk and advise and probably 143 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:24.600 study and publish, etc. Talk about that intersection from kind of a startup 144 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.159 point of view. Yes, I think one of the things that's really emerged 145 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.440 is the fact that you have that prominence of branding and marketing coming into play. 146 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:37.590 One of my good friends is a guy named Tim Copp who was the 147 00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:41.629 CMO for exact target and when Tim joined is the CMO there in two thousand 148 00:10:41.629 --> 00:10:46.470 and seven. He kind of had the premise that most of the betob world 149 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.179 wasn't practicing brand marketing. They had demand generation and they had traditional be to 150 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:58.899 be marketing, but really this essence of bringing brand into the world of technology 151 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:03.779 was something that not many people had done, and so that's something he really 152 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:05.610 focused on and I think he was a pioneer in a lot of ways, 153 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:11.090 because fast forward ten years later and I think actually some of the most exciting 154 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:16.009 marketing that's going on and the most exciting brand work is actually being led from 155 00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:20.120 the bet tob world instead of the beat Toca world, and ironically, the 156 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.039 beat to sea world is becoming more about demand, Jen and performance marketing, 157 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.919 which used to be the premise of the bet be back in the day. 158 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.909 So you've got this blending where I think people are switching in between both of 159 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:37.669 those worlds kind of interchangeably as a result. Well, he kind of answered 160 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:39.870 both questions in one there and it sounds like there's just a little bit of 161 00:11:39.990 --> 00:11:43.509 a flip flop there, which is really interesting. Why do you think that 162 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:46.460 is the case? Added just a couple ideas that came to mind as you 163 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:48.580 were talking about it. But you know, why do you think that's the 164 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:54.899 case? That BTC has, to your view, maybe historically been less demand 165 00:11:54.940 --> 00:12:01.649 Jen in base and moving in that direction, and startups and tech being less 166 00:12:01.769 --> 00:12:05.450 brand focused and started moving that way, or so be tob rather. Yes, 167 00:12:05.649 --> 00:12:07.490 I think the Bet Toc one is a really simple one, which is 168 00:12:07.850 --> 00:12:13.090 the rise of direct to consumer brands has changed the business that these guys have 169 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.240 to be in because, you know, you look at a Peng Uni lever 170 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:22.000 and even a Ford Motor Company. We called them the biggest consumer marketing companies 171 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:28.360 out there, but they actually didn't sell directly to the consumer. You know, 172 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.990 the auto guys had to go through their dealerships, the pegs in the 173 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:35.429 UNI levers had to go through Walmart and target. They never actually own the 174 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:39.789 end customer and that's why you would hear in those worlds they talked about a 175 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:46.860 customer in a consumer Walmart was the customer and the consumer was the person that 176 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:50.299 was buying the product. So that's one change that's played out, I think, 177 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.340 in a lot of cases. And then on the flip side, the 178 00:12:54.460 --> 00:13:01.090 way the reason for be to be is the I'd say infusion of technology into 179 00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:05.809 the lives of be to be has caused a Cole that has taken place, 180 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:09.450 and what I mean by that is think back two thousand and eight, two 181 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:11.529 thousand and nine, as you know, the iphone was just coming out. 182 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.320 It used to be that, you know, the enterprise in the IT guys, 183 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.200 they dictate what technology you got issued. You get your blackberry, get 184 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.279 your laptop, and then you had all these people that had two phones. 185 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.350 They had their work blackberry and they had their personal iphone, and the iphone 186 00:13:28.429 --> 00:13:31.669 got started dragging in and, you know, more and more into be to 187 00:13:31.710 --> 00:13:37.309 be. And what end up happening is the consumer and customer experience that you 188 00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:43.620 had with an iphone, with facebook, with every piece of technology, you 189 00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:48.700 would then walk into the workplace and expect that same level of high end experience 190 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:52.899 and that's really, I think, driven that behavior. That in turn caused 191 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:56.490 all the be tob marketers have to elevate their game in the same way. 192 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:03.250 I love it's a really interesting pushing pull there. He mentioned earlier that some 193 00:14:03.409 --> 00:14:07.210 of the more exciting and interesting marketing is being done in the be tob space. 194 00:14:07.289 --> 00:14:09.970 What are a couple things that come to mind there? Yeah, so 195 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:11.679 you know, one of the ones, and I know you have a favorite 196 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.000 question around who's doing customer experience right? So one of the companies I love 197 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:22.080 is terminus, and terminus is one of these great startups that's really redefining this 198 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.750 world of account based marketing, and what I love is it's a twofold thing 199 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.350 one. I just think account based marketing as a whole is one of the 200 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:37.669 more interesting trends we're seeing in the world of marketing today, and the orchestration 201 00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:43.779 and Co ordination of a great abm campaign requires you to just be a great 202 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:48.220 strategic marketer. It's about an art and science that combines. So one I 203 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:52.289 love the fact that they're helping rise. You give rise to that, but 204 00:14:52.769 --> 00:14:56.730 they're also practicing what they preach and you look at the work that they're doing 205 00:14:56.929 --> 00:15:03.250 with flip my funnel, creating the community around that, the podcast that creates 206 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:07.240 the content with it, all of those efforts together are just truly truly top 207 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.919 notch across the board. Yeah, I love it. It's a great example. 208 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:16.840 Sand Rum Vajrai leads it as kind of the face in the personality and 209 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.879 in the podcast host all off in a speaker as well, and really coming 210 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:24.549 from a place of value and education and building a community around the concept or 211 00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:31.029 the problem of contemporary be to be marketing today rather than being pitching software, 212 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:35.340 pitching software, pitching software, pitching software. It's so funny the way one 213 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:41.500 just naturally rolls out into the other and we're both here. Several might team 214 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:45.019 members are both consumers of the stuff that they put out in as well as 215 00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:46.820 being subscribers to the software as well. I love that you took it there. 216 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.210 Anything else you want to share about like the large corporate standpoint, like 217 00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:54.970 what are some of the challenges that they're facing? I think the one big 218 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:58.210 thing that I that I took note of already, is that the market has 219 00:15:58.330 --> 00:16:03.649 changed on them and that they are now direct to consumers a consequence of or 220 00:16:03.769 --> 00:16:07.480 more often than before. I obviously they still use retail, but anything else 221 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.840 going on for like someone that's in a large brand or a large company, 222 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:17.440 that should be on the radar. Yes, one of my favorite pieces of 223 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:22.110 content out there is something that was done by Stanford University, actually, that 224 00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:26.549 Aaron Levy, who's one of the the found under a box. He did 225 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:30.909 a class along with another colleague that was called the industrialist dilemma, and you 226 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:34.659 can go watch all the videos. They put all the content up online for 227 00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:41.539 it, and what I love about that whole premise is it plays off, 228 00:16:41.659 --> 00:16:47.250 obviously, the innovator dilemma and talking about the struggle for lab the fortune five 229 00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:52.250 hundred today is that the very things that gave them their competi advantage over the 230 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:56.129 last few decades are now a liability for them. In a world of six 231 00:16:56.250 --> 00:17:02.519 sigma. You got your factories to be at this perfect balance line of profitability 232 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.039 and you had all these other things that went to perfection. But when the 233 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:12.079 business that you're in changes, what do you actually do with those historical things 234 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.150 that once gave you an advantage. You you take what's happened in the world 235 00:17:17.150 --> 00:17:21.589 of shaving. It wasn't a jet den see dollar shaved club coming. It 236 00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:23.309 was they couldn't go in and tell Walmart, Hey, by the way, 237 00:17:23.390 --> 00:17:29.869 we're going to launch something that competes directly against you. So those relationships become 238 00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:33.059 a liability. And what do you do with it? And that's kind of 239 00:17:33.099 --> 00:17:37.339 at the heart of what I wrote about in predicting the turn and the work 240 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:41.140 I'm doing with the podcast, is how can you one address that fact, 241 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:47.529 realize it's happening and then do something about it? How can you go practice 242 00:17:47.730 --> 00:17:52.289 and learn from this world of innovation and then bringing the bring that learning back 243 00:17:52.369 --> 00:17:56.849 into your hallways? And for me it's practicing this concept of market intelligence that 244 00:17:57.089 --> 00:18:00.920 gives you the ability to see the how and when the future of your industry 245 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:07.000 is going to happen by being externally focused and learning from what's happening with venture 246 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:14.309 and with startups and everything else across the board. What are a couple ways 247 00:18:14.430 --> 00:18:18.109 that someone gets so? So it's one thing to see these trends and to 248 00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:22.150 identify them recognize your own liabilities. How are. How is like, you 249 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:27.259 know, a thousand person or Tenzero or even hundred thousand person organization? How 250 00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:32.660 do they kind of make that turn? Or they starting essentially doing startups inside 251 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:37.660 the larger organization, giving them freedom to explore and learn in a practical way? 252 00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:41.490 Like what have you seen or heard around that? Yeah, practical standpoint. 253 00:18:41.529 --> 00:18:45.490 Yeah, I mean there's dozens of models that you can look at and 254 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:48.809 not one is ever going to be the right thing. You need to do 255 00:18:48.930 --> 00:18:52.609 a little bit of all of them, but a few that I personally really 256 00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:56.480 love. So one is corporate venture capital. One of the reasons I love 257 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.680 corporate DC is I think a lot of people try and get incorporate DC for 258 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.279 the same reason a VC gets into it, which is the financial returns. 259 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:10.349 That's actually the least valuable thing for corporate DC. You need to do it, 260 00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:12.829 you need to make a good return on capital and everything else. But 261 00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.950 the amazing thing about a venture capitalist is every single day they have dozens of 262 00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:23.150 people walking into their doors and telling them where the future is headed them, 263 00:19:23.579 --> 00:19:30.099 and a great investor is able to see all those things have their own thesis 264 00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:33.900 of where they think the world is headed. But combine that with breadth and 265 00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:41.289 depth and pattern recognition of I'm hearing this, this and this. I think 266 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:45.009 that means something to my business and a corporate VC is a great way to 267 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:48.369 be able to do that, to bring that in, to learn from it 268 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:53.160 and not just look for deal flow and good investments, but actually use as 269 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:57.799 as market intelligence for Your Business. So that's one thing that I love that 270 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:02.440 I think a lot of you know. Nearly every corporation should have their an 271 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:07.710 effort in that space. The second one is involvement in the startup community, 272 00:20:07.349 --> 00:20:14.349 because corporate VC, while super valuable, you only will catch a company at 273 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:18.589 that moment that they're looking for investment. So you might limit yourself if you're 274 00:20:18.710 --> 00:20:22.779 only doing that. So that's why you need to involved with a lot of 275 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:30.180 different versions of startup engagement and that startup engagement can be partnerships, it can 276 00:20:30.220 --> 00:20:33.859 be accelerators, it can be any of those elements. But the mistake most 277 00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:41.210 corporations make is they pick one version of startup engagement and that doesn't give them 278 00:20:41.250 --> 00:20:45.410 a note breath. You can't throw your name on a corporate accelerator and said 279 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.170 I'm seeing ten startups, so I've done everything. You need to get out 280 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:52.480 there and do a lot more. So I'm at least of the belief that 281 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.920 rate engagement in the startup world and the way to predict that turn is you 282 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:03.079 have to do every thing that you can, and that means doing investment, 283 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.990 that means doing partnership, that means looking at launching your own efforts and that 284 00:21:08.190 --> 00:21:12.630 might even mean acquisition and finding companies that you can bring into your halls as 285 00:21:12.670 --> 00:21:15.869 well. Love it. I just occurred to me is, as you said, 286 00:21:15.910 --> 00:21:21.339 predicting the turn again for you. What is the turn? Yeah, 287 00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:26.180 so the turn is the moment when business changes. So the analogy I play 288 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:30.140 off of is if you play poker, the turn is that fourth card that 289 00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:33.690 comes out and if you're in the game at the fourth card coming down, 290 00:21:34.170 --> 00:21:38.130 you think you have a chance to win. And the thing where watching right 291 00:21:38.170 --> 00:21:42.410 now in the world of business is there's some people sitting around the table that 292 00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:47.200 don't realize they're actually playing a different game than they originally sat down with. 293 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.440 And so the turn is that moment in business and in the game of business 294 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:55.880 where things change and you need to be anticipating what that change is going to 295 00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:00.559 be. It's a great analogy. I'm glad I asked. So shifting it 296 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.430 just a little bit, you know, I've I've heard and observed that that 297 00:22:03.549 --> 00:22:07.990 VC's are giving a higher multiple two companies with low churn rates and, of 298 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:14.309 course, higher tension rates, and there are clear customer experience implications there. 299 00:22:14.630 --> 00:22:18.940 Is this something you've observed and are you doing any advising around what you know 300 00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:23.900 smaller, younger companies can do out of the gate to be successful and get 301 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:27.940 and get better multiples down the road? Yes, I mean the game of 302 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:33.289 multiples is always an interesting evolving one in the world of venture because it flows 303 00:22:33.009 --> 00:22:37.970 someone in line with the public markets, that as multiples change and different metrics 304 00:22:38.009 --> 00:22:42.809 matter more or less, you see that constant evolution. So what I always 305 00:22:42.809 --> 00:22:48.759 encourage companies is you need to pay attention to your matrics, be super focused 306 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.160 on your matrics, but you should be doing everything about building a great business, 307 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.920 not building a business based on what multiple you help you're going to get, 308 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.309 because we're not going to be in control of that. You know, 309 00:23:00.509 --> 00:23:04.710 next year, when if the world of MARTEC suddenly becomes unattractive on Wall Street, 310 00:23:06.349 --> 00:23:07.950 doesn't matter what you did with turn rates or anything else, you're going 311 00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:11.029 to see your metrics blow up you know, just ask any of the poor 312 00:23:11.069 --> 00:23:15.180 ad tech companies that went public three four years ago how much they they were 313 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.779 out of their control in that. But with all of that, that's what 314 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.420 our job is marketers, is to figure out how to make the best metrics 315 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:29.089 possible for our business and to really be driving, to put ourselves in the 316 00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:33.529 driver's seat, because the the single biggest thing that will influence, you know, 317 00:23:33.690 --> 00:23:41.089 later stage investment valuations or anything else, is not needing venture capital if 318 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.160 you don't need the money because you've created a business that has great metrics and 319 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.200 maybe even as hit profitability because of those great metrics. If you don't need 320 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.359 the money, everyone's to want to give you the money, right, and 321 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.470 that's our job to kind of put yourself in those controls. So that's exactly 322 00:23:57.549 --> 00:24:03.750 why I've been doing. You mentioned the title Strategic Consultant. The work I've 323 00:24:03.750 --> 00:24:07.150 been doing since living leaving WPP and rock fish is what I call being a 324 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:12.980 strategic marketing coach. So I'm not doing consulting in it. What I'm doing 325 00:24:14.059 --> 00:24:19.180 is executive coaching in terms of how can marketers positions up themselves the best way 326 00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:25.730 within an organization, how to mentor and Coach and help you get there faster, 327 00:24:26.529 --> 00:24:30.529 because marketing is a thing that anybody can figure it out. It's not 328 00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:34.890 something that requires a PhD, but it requires your tenzero hours of practice, 329 00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:40.559 and what I'm trying to help marketers do is get their tenzero hours of practice 330 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.519 a little bit quicker by stealing some of the hours that I've had at the 331 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.000 plate. Love it, since I have easier since I am a marketer, 332 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.160 and we have a lot of marketers listening as well. What are one or 333 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:56.549 two or three common things that you see in that coaching? Opportunities for growth 334 00:24:56.710 --> 00:24:59.670 or common errors or whatever like? What are what are a couple things that 335 00:24:59.750 --> 00:25:03.470 you tend to speak too frequently in these engagements? Yeah, so I think 336 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:08.619 the the most common thing is what starts with talent, and it's amazing how 337 00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:15.180 often it comes down to that that great marketers hire other great marketers, and 338 00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:22.410 where I've seen marketing organizations that have not been realizing their potential is generally where 339 00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:27.130 the marketing leader was. If they were, they were hiring below their level, 340 00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:33.170 and why mean by that was they were maybe not comfortable with something and 341 00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:38.839 instead of hiring an a talent that would show how their weakness and expose their 342 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:44.480 weakness. They hired a B or a C player that was maybe at parody 343 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.319 with their weakness. And I don't think anybody does it maliciously or intentionally, 344 00:25:49.029 --> 00:25:53.269 but almost every single time I've seen a weakness in a mark a marketing team, 345 00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:57.910 it comes down to that. And on the flip side, those organizations 346 00:25:57.950 --> 00:26:04.380 they're great is when a marketer realizes you can't do everything and a great marketer 347 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:08.460 is probably only actually going to be great in two or three areas at best 348 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:14.420 and weak in a lot more than that. And the great marketing teams are 349 00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:18.500 the ones where the marketing leader is comfortable enough with their own skin that they 350 00:26:18.569 --> 00:26:22.369 say, I am great at this and I'm going to hire somebody better than 351 00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:26.049 me in this, this and this area, and what ends up happening is 352 00:26:26.170 --> 00:26:32.849 the entire team ends up elevating in a great place, so that in pretty 353 00:26:32.849 --> 00:26:37.079 much every company I work with, the ones that aren't hitting on all cylinders, 354 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:41.960 that is the common cause in ninety eight percent of the situations. So 355 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:48.069 I always start with that one. The similar one to that is, I 356 00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:53.109 think, a fear of thinking you have to build everything yourself. There is 357 00:26:53.150 --> 00:27:00.740 a real value of tapping into expertise externally and using that to your advantage, 358 00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:07.019 because you get credit for success. You don't get credit for doing the work 359 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:10.460 yourself. But I think a lot of marketers we feel like we have to 360 00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:14.460 get credit for doing the work ourselves. So if you can go pull in 361 00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:18.529 a demand an agency to help you for four or five months, that get 362 00:27:18.569 --> 00:27:22.609 your foundation builds built, get your marketing tach in a great place, do 363 00:27:22.769 --> 00:27:27.450 it, take advantage of it. Don't spend the time to hire that person, 364 00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:32.160 bring them on, on board, them like. Just go off and 365 00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:36.640 do it, and that's something that I think we're afraid of sometimes to do, 366 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.440 but we don't have time. As a startup, your most valuable thing 367 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.750 is executing. Executing quickly to bring an experts to help you higher great things 368 00:27:45.789 --> 00:27:49.750 when you can, but bring in partners help you get things done faster as 369 00:27:49.829 --> 00:27:55.710 well. And then I think the final thing that marketers kind of make a 370 00:27:55.789 --> 00:28:00.700 mistake is in not building up, up, building up enough credibility with their 371 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:06.099 peers and other functions. They put their head down and say I have X, 372 00:28:06.140 --> 00:28:08.500 Y Z to accomplish in marketing and I'm going to go off and go 373 00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:14.849 do it. But what you actually first need to do is figure out where 374 00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:21.049 can marketing help your peers across the organization to do their job even better. 375 00:28:21.890 --> 00:28:26.009 So sit down with your peer over and sales, with your CEO, with 376 00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:30.480 customer service, go across that board and how can you help them? Because 377 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:36.319 if you have that give first mentality, that's going to pay maximum dividends for 378 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:40.200 you later on down the road. Yeah, such great advice. They're all 379 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.789 three of those were fantastic. That last one is really something I'm trying to 380 00:28:42.869 --> 00:28:48.150 explore here on the show, because customer experiences delivered in part by all the 381 00:28:48.269 --> 00:28:53.349 people you mentioned, and so in the customer looks different at different points based 382 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:57.140 on what seat ear and in the organization, and so the more holistic view 383 00:28:57.140 --> 00:29:02.099 you can give yourself as a marketer and the more you can share your own 384 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:06.019 understanding and point of view with other people at other touch points, I think 385 00:29:06.099 --> 00:29:08.019 the better off we're all going to be. The other interesting thing there too 386 00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:12.930 is bridging one and two together. The ability to hire that outside resource or 387 00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:18.250 that outside talent or that outside service is going to be much easier when you 388 00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:21.289 have someone who is more expert in that topic area, you know, to 389 00:29:21.369 --> 00:29:26.319 your point of like hiring to complement your weaknesses as opposed to, you know, 390 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.759 hiring poorly to protect your strengths or protect your ego or, you know, 391 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:32.480 all those other things that we're not consciously doing. What we're doing. 392 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.839 We're going to be able to contract, probably contract and negotiate and evaluate that 393 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.309 work in that partnership with a third party more effectively if you have someone who's 394 00:29:41.349 --> 00:29:45.509 more expert in that topic area. Yeah, without doubt. So. At 395 00:29:45.549 --> 00:29:48.750 bombomb here we are bootstrapped. You know, we took some friends and family 396 00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:51.990 money early on. We've been in and out of a couple debt deals, 397 00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:55.539 but you know pretty much that some of the primary owners of the company are 398 00:29:55.660 --> 00:30:00.019 in the business every single day working here. Talk a little bit for people 399 00:30:00.099 --> 00:30:02.779 that are that are at a point, you know, because we've looked at 400 00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:07.930 we've looked at obviously all the opportunities are. CEO's phone rings regularly and gets 401 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:11.769 emails on, solicited and solicited, about opportunities. Talk about the kind of 402 00:30:11.809 --> 00:30:15.569 the pros and cons in the various like big buckets for someone that isn't super 403 00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:19.690 familiar with ways to fund an operation and get it, get a business to 404 00:30:19.849 --> 00:30:23.359 a healthy point. What are some pros and cons of different ways to go. 405 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.400 Yes, I think it really does depend on the company, what your 406 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.559 goals are and what you're looking to accomplish. The only reason to ever look 407 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.069 at funding and whether it's fundings, venture capital, friends and family, debt 408 00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:41.789 rounds, any of the different options out there, funding should be about helping 409 00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:47.950 you accomplish milestones and that needs to be the goal of any time you ever 410 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:52.019 take money, because you know, taking money it's like getting a mortgage on 411 00:30:52.099 --> 00:30:56.019 your house and we never go brag about how big of a mortgage we got 412 00:30:56.140 --> 00:31:00.380 when we purchase a house. Yet a lot of times we go raise money 413 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.019 and we want to go brag about how much money we raise, and that's 414 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:07.170 the wrong thing to be doing. So whenever you approach any sort of funding, 415 00:31:07.210 --> 00:31:11.049 it should because this helped me do a milestone quicker, faster, better, 416 00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:15.970 etc. And then know that any of those models of funding will all 417 00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:19.400 call it come with different things that they dictate from you. You know, 418 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:23.519 if you take a line of credit or venture debt, well, that's something 419 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.319 that has to be steadily repaid and so you better have a consistent flow of 420 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.630 cash that's coming in to be able to do that, because if it takes 421 00:31:33.630 --> 00:31:36.430 you a little bit of extra to get your product out or something else, 422 00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:38.589 well, you still get to start paying back the interest on that debt, 423 00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:41.549 whether you like it or not. On the flip side, you look at 424 00:31:41.589 --> 00:31:47.500 venture capital, it's a little bit more patient, but it's only patient for 425 00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:52.619 so long because venture funds have to be usually they're raising a ten year venture 426 00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:55.900 fund, so they need you to repay that at some point as well, 427 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:00.339 and there will be pressures that come into that, etc. So with all 428 00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:02.049 of them it's just being cognizant. What do you want to do as your 429 00:32:02.089 --> 00:32:07.890 business, and then what are the things that will happen with those different sources? 430 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:09.890 Based on your goals? What's going to be the best way to go 431 00:32:09.930 --> 00:32:14.250 off in to do it? The final thing I'll say on that is that 432 00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:19.759 realize that all money isn't created equal either. I think the biggest mistake I 433 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.119 see from startups in the law cases is when they do make the decision to 434 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:27.720 go raise money, and when I say raise I mean usually venture capital or 435 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:36.670 private equity. They are optimizing based on valuations, and optimizing on valuation is 436 00:32:36.829 --> 00:32:40.309 the exact wrong thing to do. What you should be doing is optimizing about 437 00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:45.700 the people that will be around the table and who will help you be successful 438 00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:50.579 to do that. So find the the smartest people you can and and raise 439 00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:53.259 money from them, because hopefully what you want is those that can help you 440 00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:59.009 do your business better. Such good advice. I absolutely love what you offered 441 00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:01.329 there. The money is a means to an end. You need to be 442 00:33:01.490 --> 00:33:06.730 clear on the end, and in this case it's achieving another milestone or two. 443 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:08.970 And I would go out on a limb to say, because I've not 444 00:33:09.089 --> 00:33:12.730 been in that conversation before, but I would go on a limb to say 445 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.279 your clarity on the answers to those questions of what are you trying to get 446 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.319 done here? Are going to be questions you need to answer anyways. You 447 00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.640 should be clear on that regardless. And then the final offering there is that 448 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.829 it's all about relationships and fit. I would say that a culture match is 449 00:33:27.910 --> 00:33:30.390 probably critical. They're like again, more important than the multiple is is the 450 00:33:30.430 --> 00:33:35.829 kind of the culture match, who's there? What additional intangible value are you 451 00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:39.269 can get out of it besides just the financial or transactional aspect of it? 452 00:33:39.950 --> 00:33:45.140 Exactly good, and so I'll just use that to roll right into to the 453 00:33:45.140 --> 00:33:47.740 question I always like to ask here as we wrap up, because relationships are 454 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:52.539 our number one core value. Can you think or mention someone who's had a 455 00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:55.210 positive impact on your life or your career and give a mention to a company 456 00:33:55.289 --> 00:34:00.049 that you think is doing customer experience and in this case branding? I might 457 00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:05.210 have just been redundant. There do doing that really well. Yeah, so 458 00:34:05.369 --> 00:34:07.090 the you know, the first one I'd kind of say from a thank you 459 00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:10.840 standpoint in somebody that's been a big impact is a woman named Wendy Lee. 460 00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:15.639 Wendy is, she was on the board of directors, or is on the 461 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.639 board of directors for Text Stars, but we actually met when she is the 462 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.349 CEO of gets satisfaction, which was a great company in the the customer experience 463 00:34:23.349 --> 00:34:29.750 space back late to thousands, and when I was thinking about leaving PNG, 464 00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:32.550 Wendy was one of the people that I first sat down with and said here's 465 00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:37.750 what I'm thinking about, here's why I want accomplish and she gave me amazing 466 00:34:37.789 --> 00:34:40.860 advice that I've given to countless people after me, which was, you know, 467 00:34:42.019 --> 00:34:45.260 think about where you want to go in life and go one degree closer 468 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:49.539 every time you make a move and she said every time I've seen somebody fall 469 00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:53.409 on their face it's because they're trying to jump to May degrees over and that's 470 00:34:53.530 --> 00:34:58.489 very tough to do. And so that's been amazing advice for me and it's 471 00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:01.489 something that I've shared a lot and I've seen Wendy share a lot because she 472 00:35:01.690 --> 00:35:06.489 then, after gets as faction, actually came here to Cincinnati for the last 473 00:35:06.489 --> 00:35:10.400 few years to be our CEO for cent reviews, a great organization that we 474 00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:15.519 had here in town that's doing really kind of fun things making impact. And 475 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:19.760 then, you know, to your question about who's doing it doing it right, 476 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:22.230 I'll actually bring back to example I've shared earlier, which is I do 477 00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:27.869 think terminus is one that, if you haven't studied it as a Bab marketer 478 00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:31.750 and as a concustomer experience professional, it's one you need to dive into. 479 00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:37.980 And the reason I think it's interesting is there's a mantro, especially with so 480 00:35:37.059 --> 00:35:40.420 much of Silicon Valley being a driver of the startup world, that you hear 481 00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:45.019 the well, you need the hacker, the Hustler and the designer as that 482 00:35:45.219 --> 00:35:50.730 Holy Trinity for the Startup World. And what was fascinating with terminus is that 483 00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:55.090 Sangrum was one of the CO founders as the chief marketing officer, and having 484 00:35:55.090 --> 00:36:00.050 a marketer as that founding team member, especially for a company that was going 485 00:36:00.090 --> 00:36:05.800 to be selling to marketers. You saw from day one they built the customer 486 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.480 into the heart and soul of what they were doing and there's so much inspiration 487 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:14.320 of how can you do that from day one that just will pay dividends for 488 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.280 a long, long time. It's outstanding. I really love the e double 489 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.869 down on that and look forward to sharing that feedback with him too. I'm 490 00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:24.590 sure he'll appreciate that. Can you give people a few ways, if anyone 491 00:36:24.590 --> 00:36:29.269 wants to go deeper learn more about the the various projects that you're involved in? 492 00:36:29.429 --> 00:36:31.510 Check out the PODCAST, check out the book. What are some ways 493 00:36:31.510 --> 00:36:35.219 that people can follow up with you? Yeah, so a few different ways. 494 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:37.460 One is pretty much any social thing you can think of. I'm at 495 00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:42.699 Dave knocks, so twitter linkedin. Go go down the list. All there. 496 00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:46.019 So just at Dave Knox, all one word and then predicting the turncom 497 00:36:46.210 --> 00:36:51.769 is my website that you can find all kinds of information, whether it's about 498 00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:54.170 a link to the book, to my podcast, to the work I do 499 00:36:54.329 --> 00:37:00.130 actually as a professional speaker with conferences and corporates or just what I'm doing from 500 00:37:00.130 --> 00:37:02.880 an Executive Marketing Coaching area. So any of those are a great place and 501 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:08.559 always happy take an email at day at predicting the turncom excellent. I hope 502 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:13.000 people take you up on that really, really great advice. You've seen a 503 00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:16.389 lot of stuff. You obviously have a very intelligent, informed perspective and I 504 00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:21.190 love the you continue to explore it through the podcast medium as well. If 505 00:37:21.230 --> 00:37:24.550 you want to subscribe to predicting the turn or to the customer experience podcast, 506 00:37:24.869 --> 00:37:30.260 you can find either of them in apple podcasts, itunes and in all the 507 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:34.820 other spots where you normally listen to a podcast. Thanks so much for this 508 00:37:34.940 --> 00:37:37.780 episode. Thank you, day for your time. Thank you. Thank you 509 00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:42.820 for everything. When you're doing with bombomb as well. I agree with Dave. 510 00:37:43.139 --> 00:37:46.849 Terminus is an awesome company and they are modeling great behavior in terms of 511 00:37:46.929 --> 00:37:52.570 community building. Hey, if you enjoyed this conversation on the CX series of 512 00:37:52.610 --> 00:37:57.650 the B tob growth show, check out the customer experience podcast. You can 513 00:37:57.690 --> 00:38:01.960 learn more about it by searching the customer experience podcasting itunes or apple podcast or 514 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:09.199 spotify or google play or Google podcasts, or you can go to Bombombcom podcast. 515 00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:15.269 That's the word bomb twice. Bomb Bombcom forward slash podcast. Thanks for 516 00:38:15.389 --> 00:38:22.630 listening. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 517 00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:27.070 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've 518 00:38:27.110 --> 00:38:30.739 started the BOB growth big three, a noe fluff email that boils down our 519 00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:36.539 three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet 520 00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:42.570 Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three