Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.919 The great marketing teams are the ones where the marketing leader is comfortable enough with 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.910 their own skin that they say, I am great at this and I'm going 3 00:00:07.950 --> 00:00:14.390 to hire somebody better than me in this this and this area. A relationship 4 00:00:14.390 --> 00:00:18.510 with the right referral partner could be a game changer for any BEDB company. 5 00:00:19.109 --> 00:00:23.859 So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships at a moment's notice, start 6 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:29.300 a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be guests on your show and grow 7 00:00:29.379 --> 00:00:39.609 your referral network faster than ever. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're 8 00:00:39.689 --> 00:00:44.329 listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've 9 00:00:44.369 --> 00:00:48.009 interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, 10 00:00:48.369 --> 00:00:52.439 but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the 11 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:57.159 bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests 12 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.560 are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're 13 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:06.150 experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BEDB companies in the world. 14 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:08.670 My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a 15 00:01:08.750 --> 00:01:12.469 podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the cohosts of this 16 00:01:12.549 --> 00:01:17.790 show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from 17 00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:21.260 behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of 18 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:25.579 our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, 19 00:01:26.219 --> 00:01:36.609 maybe let's get into the show. Up. Customer experience is anything that directly 20 00:01:36.810 --> 00:01:41.329 touches the customer, everything that the customer sees. Those are the words and 21 00:01:41.450 --> 00:01:45.689 ideas of Dave Knox, our guests on this episode of the B Tob Growth 22 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:49.400 Show. My name is Ethan, but I host the CX series here on 23 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.680 the show. Dave is classically trained in branding and marketing and brings a lot 24 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:59.560 of expertise in that area, and he's currently operating primarily with fast growth companies 25 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:02.909 and venture capital. So we have a great conversation for you. You are 26 00:02:02.909 --> 00:02:06.750 going to learn the pros and cons of different ways to fund a company, 27 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:09.990 you are going to learn about specific improvements that you can make to your customer 28 00:02:10.030 --> 00:02:15.669 experience, especially in a high growth environment, and you're going to get specific 29 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:20.500 marketing mistakes that he sees too many companies making. I hope you enjoy this 30 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.939 episode. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. You're going to 31 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:29.699 love this episode. Our guest works at the intersection of brands and technology, 32 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:34.569 with a focus on startups, seed funding and venture capital. He's currently a 33 00:02:34.689 --> 00:02:38.090 strategic advisor at predicting the turn. He's also a podcast host of the same 34 00:02:38.090 --> 00:02:43.650 name predicting the turn. He's a managing partner at Bind Street ventures, cofounder 35 00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:46.479 at the brandery, which is a tech accelerator, and look forward to learn 36 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.199 a little bit more about that. And also interesting here's that he spent seven 37 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.759 years of CMO at rockfish. This is a company that's owned by WPPA, 38 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:59.229 of formerly known as a global advertising and PR agency, but now they called 39 00:02:59.270 --> 00:03:04.669 themselves a creative transformation agency. I can see that becoming a conversation theme here 40 00:03:04.710 --> 00:03:08.150 today, and so our guest today, Dave knocks. Welcome to the customer 41 00:03:08.189 --> 00:03:13.659 experience podcast. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm really excited about 42 00:03:13.659 --> 00:03:17.259 this. I think there's obviously a lot going on with with brands, technology, 43 00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:23.259 disruption, innovation, and you're kind of in an interesting seat around all 44 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:25.340 of that, especially over the past decade. So I look forward to getting 45 00:03:25.340 --> 00:03:28.849 into it. But I want to start where I always start, which is 46 00:03:29.250 --> 00:03:35.210 your definition or your thoughts on customer experience. Yeah, so customer experience, 47 00:03:35.289 --> 00:03:38.050 you're being a brand guy by training. I started my career proctor and gamble 48 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:43.759 back in the day, and I think of customer experience is being everything that's 49 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.759 the front of the House, anything that touches that consumer and can influence how 50 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:52.719 they think about your company, your brand, your business. So that's everything 51 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:59.069 from the essence of the brand design to marketing, to sales to how you 52 00:03:59.189 --> 00:04:02.110 show up at retail. That customer experience is every single one of those touch 53 00:04:02.189 --> 00:04:06.469 points rolled together. That's awesome. You've given me languish that I haven't heard 54 00:04:06.509 --> 00:04:11.099 on this question before and I've asked it dozens of times. It's this clear 55 00:04:11.139 --> 00:04:14.860 delineation between front of House and back of House, back of House being, 56 00:04:14.939 --> 00:04:17.300 of course, two things that most people don't see, in front of House 57 00:04:17.379 --> 00:04:21.220 being, to your point, everything that everyone experiences. So I love that. 58 00:04:21.740 --> 00:04:25.370 So go into your branding background. You know I've had an I've had 59 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:30.410 a couple branding experts on the show and done and I put you a probably 60 00:04:30.410 --> 00:04:32.970 adjacent to, if not in that category. I've let you decide to how 61 00:04:33.009 --> 00:04:36.689 you feel about that. But there seems to be a fair amount of overlap 62 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:43.160 from time to time in talking about customer experience and brand experience or branding. 63 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.519 What do you see the relationship there as being at? Where they similar? 64 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:48.920 Where they different? You have a line between those two, or do you 65 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:54.949 see them as approximately synonymous? Yeah, I think frankly they're. They're similar 66 00:04:54.990 --> 00:05:00.670 in there, if not completely overlapping. Customer Experience is definitely an emerging field 67 00:05:00.829 --> 00:05:02.910 that the language has really only come about, I'd say, in the last 68 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:06.939 decade. You've seen it in the public eye. It wasn't something that when 69 00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:11.620 we were getting the training and branding back in the day, was ever really 70 00:05:11.779 --> 00:05:15.339 talked about. is its own thing. It was just the essence of one 71 00:05:15.379 --> 00:05:17.860 of the things that you had to do. But with the rise of bet 72 00:05:17.980 --> 00:05:21.689 to be marketing and the right of direct to consumer efforts, I think that's 73 00:05:21.730 --> 00:05:27.490 what's given rise to the language of customer experience. But if you're not doing 74 00:05:27.689 --> 00:05:30.170 branding the right way, if you're not thinking about it as part of your 75 00:05:30.250 --> 00:05:35.000 core efforts, there what is the essence of good branding to you? What 76 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:40.759 what is this outcome? If someone is committed to brand building what are the 77 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:45.040 obvious consequences of that? Yeah, so the essence of I think what makes 78 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.839 great branding is evoking emotion, because that's what a brand comes down to. 79 00:05:49.230 --> 00:05:55.389 Is it sparking something in a person when they see what you are here, 80 00:05:55.550 --> 00:05:59.230 what you are when they hear your brand? Do they know something and does 81 00:05:59.269 --> 00:06:01.589 it evoke an emotion with it? And there's a wide range of what that 82 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:06.180 emotion can be, but great branding has thought about that, has dictated it 83 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:11.459 and it's been planned across the board, and it's where it goes back to 84 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:15.860 its being across every touch point. Think about a company like Zappos. You 85 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:18.730 can think a lot of things with it, but essence it's going to be 86 00:06:18.769 --> 00:06:24.449 a great experience. That's probably what you evoke and that feeling of happiness that 87 00:06:24.529 --> 00:06:28.850 goes into it. Love it. The feeling part of it is often something 88 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:31.920 that someone will offer in the definition of customer experience, and so to wrap 89 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.600 both of those together that they are very, very overlapping. This is just 90 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:41.399 a personal curiosity for me. I mean coming up in PNG, I imagine 91 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:46.399 that you got essentially the equivalent of an MBA in your in your onboarding and 92 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:48.310 training. What was that experience like for you and how did that shape your 93 00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:53.550 career? Yeah, it's funny you use those, those words of like an 94 00:06:53.589 --> 00:06:57.949 MBA, because for me that's exactly what it was, png especially in brand 95 00:06:57.990 --> 00:07:01.939 management. It's kind of unique place in that probably about ninety two hundred and 96 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:08.259 ninety five percent of my colleagues as assistant brand managers were coming from an MBA 97 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:12.860 program and coming from usually a top tier whether it was a booth or Harvard 98 00:07:12.899 --> 00:07:15.170 or something of that nature. I was a twenty two year old kid coming 99 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:20.970 from a public university with just a bachelor of science and business. So for 100 00:07:21.089 --> 00:07:26.730 me it really really was the MBA, because one of the things that's amazing 101 00:07:26.850 --> 00:07:31.199 of a for five hundred company that invests in their people is you get that 102 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.439 training. You know, probably every week for my first two, if not 103 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:40.240 three years, there was a training that I was going to that would either 104 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.720 be a couple of hours or full day. Every time. When you got 105 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:47.149 promoted, you went to Assistant Brand Manager College, then brand manager college and 106 00:07:47.269 --> 00:07:50.310 so forth and so on, and you know, those were week long of 107 00:07:50.550 --> 00:07:56.110 all day events that they flew everyone in from across the globe that was in 108 00:07:56.230 --> 00:08:00.379 your class, at at your level so for me it really was that MBA, 109 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:05.540 that kind of training. But I think where it was differed from a 110 00:08:05.740 --> 00:08:09.980 just a classroom MBA was you combine that learning with the fact at the same 111 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:15.529 time you were putting those principles to work the next day. You weren't just 112 00:08:15.689 --> 00:08:20.129 talking in theory and case studies, but you were owning a twenty million dollar 113 00:08:20.209 --> 00:08:24.610 marketing budget the next day and doing something with it. So that's why, 114 00:08:24.730 --> 00:08:28.519 you know, I do a lot of talks at college campuses and especially when 115 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.320 I talk to entrepreneur students. They want to go start a business right away 116 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.200 at twenty two, and all encourage a lot of them of go find a 117 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:39.759 place that you can get that training first, because me at twenty two made 118 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.429 a lot of mistakes and it was a lot better to be making those mistakes 119 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.509 on the the budget of a several billion dollar company then my tiny budget if 120 00:08:48.509 --> 00:08:52.629 I was an entrepreneur. Right. You know, your error in that context 121 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:56.539 is a rounding error versus an error. With you as that you know, 122 00:08:56.620 --> 00:09:01.740 a twenty two year old maybe start up founder could be fatal. Yes, 123 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:05.100 that's exactly it, and it's one of my first bosses. He said the 124 00:09:05.179 --> 00:09:07.500 great thing he goes. You know, just remember that we've created a system 125 00:09:07.539 --> 00:09:11.129 that has a safety belt on you. So drive the far car as fast 126 00:09:11.129 --> 00:09:15.490 as you can and we know that we've got the seat felt. You'll be 127 00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:18.250 safe. I love it. It's it's such good permission. It sounds like 128 00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:22.129 there's a really good culture there. You like. When I think about are 129 00:09:22.129 --> 00:09:26.320 you familiar with the service profit chain? Loosely but not intimately, it sounds 130 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:30.360 it basically the premises. You know, so many people focus on the far 131 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.440 end of revenue and Growth, but these are outcomes of a whole series of 132 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.669 events that walk back through the customer all the way back to employees, and 133 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:43.990 so the premise is that when you invest in hiring, onboarding, training, 134 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:48.350 developing and you produce a good employee experience, that everything else falls out from 135 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:50.950 there as a consequence. So focus there. Sounds like that was a part 136 00:09:50.990 --> 00:09:54.460 of your experience there at PNG. I'm glad I ask. That's great and 137 00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:58.100 it actually leads me into a pair of questions that I that I had prepared, 138 00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:01.419 which I'll ask. The first what's happening at the intersection of brand and 139 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:07.059 technology from a start up standpoint, and then the and then the follow up 140 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:11.289 is what's happening there from, you know, maybe a fortune five hundred or 141 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:16.610 just a generally a medium or large corporation standpoint. Like at that intersection of 142 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:20.649 Brandon Technology, were kind of live and work and talk and advise and probably 143 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:24.600 study and publish, etc. Talk about that intersection from kind of a startup 144 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.159 point of view. Yes, I think one of the things that's really emerged 145 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.440 is the fact that you have that prominence of branding and marketing coming into play. 146 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:37.590 One of my good friends is a guy named Tim Copp who was the 147 00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:41.629 CMO for exact target and when Tim joined is the CMO there in two thousand 148 00:10:41.629 --> 00:10:46.470 and seven. He kind of had the premise that most of the betob world 149 00:10:48.149 --> 00:10:52.179 wasn't practicing brand marketing. They had demand generation and they had traditional be to 150 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:58.899 be marketing, but really this essence of bringing brand into the world of technology 151 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:03.779 was something that not many people had done, and so that's something he really 152 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:05.610 focused on and I think he was a pioneer in a lot of ways, 153 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:11.090 because fast forward ten years later and I think actually some of the most exciting 154 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:16.009 marketing that's going on and the most exciting brand work is actually being led from 155 00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:20.120 the bet tob world instead of the beat Toca world, and ironically, the 156 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.039 beat to sea world is becoming more about demand, Jen and performance marketing, 157 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.919 which used to be the premise of the bet be back in the day. 158 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.909 So you've got this blending where I think people are switching in between both of 159 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:37.669 those worlds kind of interchangeably as a result. Well, he kind of answered 160 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:39.870 both questions in one there and it sounds like there's just a little bit of 161 00:11:39.990 --> 00:11:43.509 a flip flop there, which is really interesting. Why do you think that 162 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:46.460 is the case? Added just a couple ideas that came to mind as you 163 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:48.580 were talking about it. But you know, why do you think that's the 164 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:54.899 case? That BTC has, to your view, maybe historically been less demand 165 00:11:54.940 --> 00:12:01.649 Jen in base and moving in that direction, and startups and tech being less 166 00:12:01.769 --> 00:12:05.450 brand focused and started moving that way, or so be tob rather. Yes, 167 00:12:05.649 --> 00:12:07.490 I think the Bet Toc one is a really simple one, which is 168 00:12:07.850 --> 00:12:13.090 the rise of direct to consumer brands has changed the business that these guys have 169 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.240 to be in because, you know, you look at a Peng Uni lever 170 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:22.000 and even a Ford Motor Company. We called them the biggest consumer marketing companies 171 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:28.360 out there, but they actually didn't sell directly to the consumer. You know, 172 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.990 the auto guys had to go through their dealerships, the pegs in the 173 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:35.429 UNI levers had to go through Walmart and target. They never actually own the 174 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:39.789 end customer and that's why you would hear in those worlds they talked about a 175 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:46.860 customer in a consumer Walmart was the customer and the consumer was the person that 176 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:50.299 was buying the product. So that's one change that's played out, I think, 177 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.340 in a lot of cases. And then on the flip side, the 178 00:12:54.460 --> 00:13:01.090 way the reason for be to be is the I'd say infusion of technology into 179 00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:05.809 the lives of be to be has caused a Cole that has taken place, 180 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:09.450 and what I mean by that is think back two thousand and eight, two 181 00:13:09.490 --> 00:13:11.529 thousand and nine, as you know, the iphone was just coming out. 182 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.320 It used to be that, you know, the enterprise in the IT guys, 183 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.200 they dictate what technology you got issued. You get your blackberry, get 184 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.279 your laptop, and then you had all these people that had two phones. 185 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.350 They had their work blackberry and they had their personal iphone, and the iphone 186 00:13:28.429 --> 00:13:31.669 got started dragging in and, you know, more and more into be to 187 00:13:31.710 --> 00:13:37.309 be. And what end up happening is the consumer and customer experience that you 188 00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:43.620 had with an iphone, with facebook, with every piece of technology, you 189 00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:48.700 would then walk into the workplace and expect that same level of high end experience 190 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:52.899 and that's really, I think, driven that behavior. That in turn caused 191 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:56.490 all the be tob marketers have to elevate their game in the same way. 192 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:03.250 I love it's a really interesting pushing pull there. He mentioned earlier that some 193 00:14:03.409 --> 00:14:07.210 of the more exciting and interesting marketing is being done in the be tob space. 194 00:14:07.289 --> 00:14:09.970 What are a couple things that come to mind there? Yeah, so 195 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:11.679 you know, one of the ones, and I know you have a favorite 196 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.000 question around who's doing customer experience right? So one of the companies I love 197 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:22.080 is terminus, and terminus is one of these great startups that's really redefining this 198 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.750 world of account based marketing, and what I love is it's a twofold thing 199 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.350 one. I just think account based marketing as a whole is one of the 200 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:37.669 more interesting trends we're seeing in the world of marketing today, and the orchestration 201 00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:43.779 and Co ordination of a great abm campaign requires you to just be a great 202 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:48.220 strategic marketer. It's about an art and science that combines. So one I 203 00:14:48.340 --> 00:14:52.289 love the fact that they're helping rise. You give rise to that, but 204 00:14:52.769 --> 00:14:56.730 they're also practicing what they preach and you look at the work that they're doing 205 00:14:56.929 --> 00:15:03.250 with flip my funnel, creating the community around that, the podcast that creates 206 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:07.240 the content with it, all of those efforts together are just truly truly top 207 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.919 notch across the board. Yeah, I love it. It's a great example. 208 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:16.840 Sand Rum Vajrai leads it as kind of the face in the personality and 209 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.879 in the podcast host all off in a speaker as well, and really coming 210 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:24.549 from a place of value and education and building a community around the concept or 211 00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:31.029 the problem of contemporary be to be marketing today rather than being pitching software, 212 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:35.340 pitching software, pitching software, pitching software. It's so funny the way one 213 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:41.500 just naturally rolls out into the other and we're both here. Several might team 214 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:45.019 members are both consumers of the stuff that they put out in as well as 215 00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:46.820 being subscribers to the software as well. I love that you took it there. 216 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.210 Anything else you want to share about like the large corporate standpoint, like 217 00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:54.970 what are some of the challenges that they're facing? I think the one big 218 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:58.210 thing that I that I took note of already, is that the market has 219 00:15:58.330 --> 00:16:03.649 changed on them and that they are now direct to consumers a consequence of or 220 00:16:03.769 --> 00:16:07.480 more often than before. I obviously they still use retail, but anything else 221 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.840 going on for like someone that's in a large brand or a large company, 222 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:17.440 that should be on the radar. Yes, one of my favorite pieces of 223 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:22.110 content out there is something that was done by Stanford University, actually, that 224 00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:26.549 Aaron Levy, who's one of the the found under a box. He did 225 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:30.909 a class along with another colleague that was called the industrialist dilemma, and you 226 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:34.659 can go watch all the videos. They put all the content up online for 227 00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:41.539 it, and what I love about that whole premise is it plays off, 228 00:16:41.659 --> 00:16:47.250 obviously, the innovator dilemma and talking about the struggle for lab the fortune five 229 00:16:47.289 --> 00:16:52.250 hundred today is that the very things that gave them their competi advantage over the 230 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:56.129 last few decades are now a liability for them. In a world of six 231 00:16:56.250 --> 00:17:02.519 sigma. You got your factories to be at this perfect balance line of profitability 232 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.039 and you had all these other things that went to perfection. But when the 233 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:12.079 business that you're in changes, what do you actually do with those historical things 234 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.150 that once gave you an advantage. You you take what's happened in the world 235 00:17:17.150 --> 00:17:21.589 of shaving. It wasn't a jet den see dollar shaved club coming. It 236 00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:23.309 was they couldn't go in and tell Walmart, Hey, by the way, 237 00:17:23.390 --> 00:17:29.869 we're going to launch something that competes directly against you. So those relationships become 238 00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:33.059 a liability. And what do you do with it? And that's kind of 239 00:17:33.099 --> 00:17:37.339 at the heart of what I wrote about in predicting the turn and the work 240 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:41.140 I'm doing with the podcast, is how can you one address that fact, 241 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:47.529 realize it's happening and then do something about it? How can you go practice 242 00:17:47.730 --> 00:17:52.289 and learn from this world of innovation and then bringing the bring that learning back 243 00:17:52.369 --> 00:17:56.849 into your hallways? And for me it's practicing this concept of market intelligence that 244 00:17:57.089 --> 00:18:00.920 gives you the ability to see the how and when the future of your industry 245 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:07.000 is going to happen by being externally focused and learning from what's happening with venture 246 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:14.309 and with startups and everything else across the board. What are a couple ways 247 00:18:14.430 --> 00:18:18.109 that someone gets so? So it's one thing to see these trends and to 248 00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:22.150 identify them recognize your own liabilities. How are. How is like, you 249 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:27.259 know, a thousand person or Tenzero or even hundred thousand person organization? How 250 00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:32.660 do they kind of make that turn? Or they starting essentially doing startups inside 251 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:37.660 the larger organization, giving them freedom to explore and learn in a practical way? 252 00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:41.490 Like what have you seen or heard around that? Yeah, practical standpoint. 253 00:18:41.529 --> 00:18:45.490 Yeah, I mean there's dozens of models that you can look at and 254 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:48.809 not one is ever going to be the right thing. You need to do 255 00:18:48.930 --> 00:18:52.609 a little bit of all of them, but a few that I personally really 256 00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:56.480 love. So one is corporate venture capital. One of the reasons I love 257 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.680 corporate DC is I think a lot of people try and get incorporate DC for 258 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.279 the same reason a VC gets into it, which is the financial returns. 259 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:10.349 That's actually the least valuable thing for corporate DC. You need to do it, 260 00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:12.829 you need to make a good return on capital and everything else. But 261 00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.950 the amazing thing about a venture capitalist is every single day they have dozens of 262 00:19:19.029 --> 00:19:23.150 people walking into their doors and telling them where the future is headed them, 263 00:19:23.579 --> 00:19:30.099 and a great investor is able to see all those things have their own thesis 264 00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:33.900 of where they think the world is headed. But combine that with breadth and 265 00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:41.289 depth and pattern recognition of I'm hearing this, this and this. I think 266 00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:45.009 that means something to my business and a corporate VC is a great way to 267 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:48.369 be able to do that, to bring that in, to learn from it 268 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:53.160 and not just look for deal flow and good investments, but actually use as 269 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:57.799 as market intelligence for Your Business. So that's one thing that I love that 270 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:02.440 I think a lot of you know. Nearly every corporation should have their an 271 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:07.710 effort in that space. The second one is involvement in the startup community, 272 00:20:07.349 --> 00:20:14.349 because corporate VC, while super valuable, you only will catch a company at 273 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:18.589 that moment that they're looking for investment. So you might limit yourself if you're 274 00:20:18.710 --> 00:20:22.779 only doing that. So that's why you need to involved with a lot of 275 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:30.180 different versions of startup engagement and that startup engagement can be partnerships, it can 276 00:20:30.220 --> 00:20:33.859 be accelerators, it can be any of those elements. But the mistake most 277 00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:41.210 corporations make is they pick one version of startup engagement and that doesn't give them 278 00:20:41.250 --> 00:20:45.410 a note breath. You can't throw your name on a corporate accelerator and said 279 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.170 I'm seeing ten startups, so I've done everything. You need to get out 280 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:52.480 there and do a lot more. So I'm at least of the belief that 281 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.920 rate engagement in the startup world and the way to predict that turn is you 282 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:03.079 have to do every thing that you can, and that means doing investment, 283 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.990 that means doing partnership, that means looking at launching your own efforts and that 284 00:21:08.190 --> 00:21:12.630 might even mean acquisition and finding companies that you can bring into your halls as 285 00:21:12.670 --> 00:21:15.869 well. Love it. I just occurred to me is, as you said, 286 00:21:15.910 --> 00:21:21.339 predicting the turn again for you. What is the turn? Yeah, 287 00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:26.180 so the turn is the moment when business changes. So the analogy I play 288 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:30.140 off of is if you play poker, the turn is that fourth card that 289 00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:33.690 comes out and if you're in the game at the fourth card coming down, 290 00:21:34.170 --> 00:21:38.130 you think you have a chance to win. And the thing where watching right 291 00:21:38.170 --> 00:21:42.410 now in the world of business is there's some people sitting around the table that 292 00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:47.200 don't realize they're actually playing a different game than they originally sat down with. 293 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.440 And so the turn is that moment in business and in the game of business 294 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:55.880 where things change and you need to be anticipating what that change is going to 295 00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:00.559 be. It's a great analogy. I'm glad I asked. So shifting it 296 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.430 just a little bit, you know, I've I've heard and observed that that 297 00:22:03.549 --> 00:22:07.990 VC's are giving a higher multiple two companies with low churn rates and, of 298 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:14.309 course, higher tension rates, and there are clear customer experience implications there. 299 00:22:14.630 --> 00:22:18.940 Is this something you've observed and are you doing any advising around what you know 300 00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:23.900 smaller, younger companies can do out of the gate to be successful and get 301 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:27.940 and get better multiples down the road? Yes, I mean the game of 302 00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:33.289 multiples is always an interesting evolving one in the world of venture because it flows 303 00:22:33.009 --> 00:22:37.970 someone in line with the public markets, that as multiples change and different metrics 304 00:22:38.009 --> 00:22:42.809 matter more or less, you see that constant evolution. So what I always 305 00:22:42.809 --> 00:22:48.759 encourage companies is you need to pay attention to your matrics, be super focused 306 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.160 on your matrics, but you should be doing everything about building a great business, 307 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.920 not building a business based on what multiple you help you're going to get, 308 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.309 because we're not going to be in control of that. You know, 309 00:23:00.509 --> 00:23:04.710 next year, when if the world of MARTEC suddenly becomes unattractive on Wall Street, 310 00:23:06.349 --> 00:23:07.950 doesn't matter what you did with turn rates or anything else, you're going 311 00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:11.029 to see your metrics blow up you know, just ask any of the poor 312 00:23:11.069 --> 00:23:15.180 ad tech companies that went public three four years ago how much they they were 313 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.779 out of their control in that. But with all of that, that's what 314 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.420 our job is marketers, is to figure out how to make the best metrics 315 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:29.089 possible for our business and to really be driving, to put ourselves in the 316 00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:33.529 driver's seat, because the the single biggest thing that will influence, you know, 317 00:23:33.690 --> 00:23:41.089 later stage investment valuations or anything else, is not needing venture capital if 318 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.160 you don't need the money because you've created a business that has great metrics and 319 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.200 maybe even as hit profitability because of those great metrics. If you don't need 320 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.359 the money, everyone's to want to give you the money, right, and 321 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.470 that's our job to kind of put yourself in those controls. So that's exactly 322 00:23:57.549 --> 00:24:03.750 why I've been doing. You mentioned the title Strategic Consultant. The work I've 323 00:24:03.750 --> 00:24:07.150 been doing since living leaving WPP and rock fish is what I call being a 324 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:12.980 strategic marketing coach. So I'm not doing consulting in it. What I'm doing 325 00:24:14.059 --> 00:24:19.180 is executive coaching in terms of how can marketers positions up themselves the best way 326 00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:25.730 within an organization, how to mentor and Coach and help you get there faster, 327 00:24:26.529 --> 00:24:30.529 because marketing is a thing that anybody can figure it out. It's not 328 00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:34.890 something that requires a PhD, but it requires your tenzero hours of practice, 329 00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:40.559 and what I'm trying to help marketers do is get their tenzero hours of practice 330 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.519 a little bit quicker by stealing some of the hours that I've had at the 331 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.000 plate. Love it, since I have easier since I am a marketer, 332 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.160 and we have a lot of marketers listening as well. What are one or 333 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:56.549 two or three common things that you see in that coaching? Opportunities for growth 334 00:24:56.710 --> 00:24:59.670 or common errors or whatever like? What are what are a couple things that 335 00:24:59.750 --> 00:25:03.470 you tend to speak too frequently in these engagements? Yeah, so I think 336 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:08.619 the the most common thing is what starts with talent, and it's amazing how 337 00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:15.180 often it comes down to that that great marketers hire other great marketers, and 338 00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:22.410 where I've seen marketing organizations that have not been realizing their potential is generally where 339 00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:27.130 the marketing leader was. If they were, they were hiring below their level, 340 00:25:27.329 --> 00:25:33.170 and why mean by that was they were maybe not comfortable with something and 341 00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:38.839 instead of hiring an a talent that would show how their weakness and expose their 342 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:44.480 weakness. They hired a B or a C player that was maybe at parody 343 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.319 with their weakness. And I don't think anybody does it maliciously or intentionally, 344 00:25:49.029 --> 00:25:53.269 but almost every single time I've seen a weakness in a mark a marketing team, 345 00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:57.910 it comes down to that. And on the flip side, those organizations 346 00:25:57.950 --> 00:26:04.380 they're great is when a marketer realizes you can't do everything and a great marketer 347 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:08.460 is probably only actually going to be great in two or three areas at best 348 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:14.420 and weak in a lot more than that. And the great marketing teams are 349 00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:18.500 the ones where the marketing leader is comfortable enough with their own skin that they 350 00:26:18.569 --> 00:26:22.369 say, I am great at this and I'm going to hire somebody better than 351 00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:26.049 me in this, this and this area, and what ends up happening is 352 00:26:26.170 --> 00:26:32.849 the entire team ends up elevating in a great place, so that in pretty 353 00:26:32.849 --> 00:26:37.079 much every company I work with, the ones that aren't hitting on all cylinders, 354 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:41.960 that is the common cause in ninety eight percent of the situations. So 355 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:48.069 I always start with that one. The similar one to that is, I 356 00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:53.109 think, a fear of thinking you have to build everything yourself. There is 357 00:26:53.150 --> 00:27:00.740 a real value of tapping into expertise externally and using that to your advantage, 358 00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:07.019 because you get credit for success. You don't get credit for doing the work 359 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:10.460 yourself. But I think a lot of marketers we feel like we have to 360 00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:14.460 get credit for doing the work ourselves. So if you can go pull in 361 00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:18.529 a demand an agency to help you for four or five months, that get 362 00:27:18.569 --> 00:27:22.609 your foundation builds built, get your marketing tach in a great place, do 363 00:27:22.769 --> 00:27:27.450 it, take advantage of it. Don't spend the time to hire that person, 364 00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:32.160 bring them on, on board, them like. Just go off and 365 00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:36.640 do it, and that's something that I think we're afraid of sometimes to do, 366 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.440 but we don't have time. As a startup, your most valuable thing 367 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.750 is executing. Executing quickly to bring an experts to help you higher great things 368 00:27:45.789 --> 00:27:49.750 when you can, but bring in partners help you get things done faster as 369 00:27:49.829 --> 00:27:55.710 well. And then I think the final thing that marketers kind of make a 370 00:27:55.789 --> 00:28:00.700 mistake is in not building up, up, building up enough credibility with their 371 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:06.099 peers and other functions. They put their head down and say I have X, 372 00:28:06.140 --> 00:28:08.500 Y Z to accomplish in marketing and I'm going to go off and go 373 00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:14.849 do it. But what you actually first need to do is figure out where 374 00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:21.049 can marketing help your peers across the organization to do their job even better. 375 00:28:21.890 --> 00:28:26.009 So sit down with your peer over and sales, with your CEO, with 376 00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:30.480 customer service, go across that board and how can you help them? Because 377 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:36.319 if you have that give first mentality, that's going to pay maximum dividends for 378 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:40.200 you later on down the road. Yeah, such great advice. They're all 379 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.789 three of those were fantastic. That last one is really something I'm trying to 380 00:28:42.869 --> 00:28:48.150 explore here on the show, because customer experiences delivered in part by all the 381 00:28:48.269 --> 00:28:53.349 people you mentioned, and so in the customer looks different at different points based 382 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:57.140 on what seat ear and in the organization, and so the more holistic view 383 00:28:57.140 --> 00:29:02.099 you can give yourself as a marketer and the more you can share your own 384 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:06.019 understanding and point of view with other people at other touch points, I think 385 00:29:06.099 --> 00:29:08.019 the better off we're all going to be. The other interesting thing there too 386 00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:12.930 is bridging one and two together. The ability to hire that outside resource or 387 00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:18.250 that outside talent or that outside service is going to be much easier when you 388 00:29:18.329 --> 00:29:21.289 have someone who is more expert in that topic area, you know, to 389 00:29:21.369 --> 00:29:26.319 your point of like hiring to complement your weaknesses as opposed to, you know, 390 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.759 hiring poorly to protect your strengths or protect your ego or, you know, 391 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:32.480 all those other things that we're not consciously doing. What we're doing. 392 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.839 We're going to be able to contract, probably contract and negotiate and evaluate that 393 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.309 work in that partnership with a third party more effectively if you have someone who's 394 00:29:41.349 --> 00:29:45.509 more expert in that topic area. Yeah, without doubt. So. At 395 00:29:45.549 --> 00:29:48.750 bombomb here we are bootstrapped. You know, we took some friends and family 396 00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:51.990 money early on. We've been in and out of a couple debt deals, 397 00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:55.539 but you know pretty much that some of the primary owners of the company are 398 00:29:55.660 --> 00:30:00.019 in the business every single day working here. Talk a little bit for people 399 00:30:00.099 --> 00:30:02.779 that are that are at a point, you know, because we've looked at 400 00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:07.930 we've looked at obviously all the opportunities are. CEO's phone rings regularly and gets 401 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:11.769 emails on, solicited and solicited, about opportunities. Talk about the kind of 402 00:30:11.809 --> 00:30:15.569 the pros and cons in the various like big buckets for someone that isn't super 403 00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:19.690 familiar with ways to fund an operation and get it, get a business to 404 00:30:19.849 --> 00:30:23.359 a healthy point. What are some pros and cons of different ways to go. 405 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.400 Yes, I think it really does depend on the company, what your 406 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.559 goals are and what you're looking to accomplish. The only reason to ever look 407 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.069 at funding and whether it's fundings, venture capital, friends and family, debt 408 00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:41.789 rounds, any of the different options out there, funding should be about helping 409 00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:47.950 you accomplish milestones and that needs to be the goal of any time you ever 410 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:52.019 take money, because you know, taking money it's like getting a mortgage on 411 00:30:52.099 --> 00:30:56.019 your house and we never go brag about how big of a mortgage we got 412 00:30:56.140 --> 00:31:00.380 when we purchase a house. Yet a lot of times we go raise money 413 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.019 and we want to go brag about how much money we raise, and that's 414 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:07.170 the wrong thing to be doing. So whenever you approach any sort of funding, 415 00:31:07.210 --> 00:31:11.049 it should because this helped me do a milestone quicker, faster, better, 416 00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:15.970 etc. And then know that any of those models of funding will all 417 00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:19.400 call it come with different things that they dictate from you. You know, 418 00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:23.519 if you take a line of credit or venture debt, well, that's something 419 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.319 that has to be steadily repaid and so you better have a consistent flow of 420 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.630 cash that's coming in to be able to do that, because if it takes 421 00:31:33.630 --> 00:31:36.430 you a little bit of extra to get your product out or something else, 422 00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:38.589 well, you still get to start paying back the interest on that debt, 423 00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:41.549 whether you like it or not. On the flip side, you look at 424 00:31:41.589 --> 00:31:47.500 venture capital, it's a little bit more patient, but it's only patient for 425 00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:52.619 so long because venture funds have to be usually they're raising a ten year venture 426 00:31:52.700 --> 00:31:55.900 fund, so they need you to repay that at some point as well, 427 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:00.339 and there will be pressures that come into that, etc. So with all 428 00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:02.049 of them it's just being cognizant. What do you want to do as your 429 00:32:02.089 --> 00:32:07.890 business, and then what are the things that will happen with those different sources? 430 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:09.890 Based on your goals? What's going to be the best way to go 431 00:32:09.930 --> 00:32:14.250 off in to do it? The final thing I'll say on that is that 432 00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:19.759 realize that all money isn't created equal either. I think the biggest mistake I 433 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.119 see from startups in the law cases is when they do make the decision to 434 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:27.720 go raise money, and when I say raise I mean usually venture capital or 435 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:36.670 private equity. They are optimizing based on valuations, and optimizing on valuation is 436 00:32:36.829 --> 00:32:40.309 the exact wrong thing to do. What you should be doing is optimizing about 437 00:32:40.390 --> 00:32:45.700 the people that will be around the table and who will help you be successful 438 00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:50.579 to do that. So find the the smartest people you can and and raise 439 00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:53.259 money from them, because hopefully what you want is those that can help you 440 00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:59.009 do your business better. Such good advice. I absolutely love what you offered 441 00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:01.329 there. The money is a means to an end. You need to be 442 00:33:01.490 --> 00:33:06.730 clear on the end, and in this case it's achieving another milestone or two. 443 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:08.970 And I would go out on a limb to say, because I've not 444 00:33:09.089 --> 00:33:12.730 been in that conversation before, but I would go on a limb to say 445 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.279 your clarity on the answers to those questions of what are you trying to get 446 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.319 done here? Are going to be questions you need to answer anyways. You 447 00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.640 should be clear on that regardless. And then the final offering there is that 448 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.829 it's all about relationships and fit. I would say that a culture match is 449 00:33:27.910 --> 00:33:30.390 probably critical. They're like again, more important than the multiple is is the 450 00:33:30.430 --> 00:33:35.829 kind of the culture match, who's there? What additional intangible value are you 451 00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:39.269 can get out of it besides just the financial or transactional aspect of it? 452 00:33:39.950 --> 00:33:45.140 Exactly good, and so I'll just use that to roll right into to the 453 00:33:45.140 --> 00:33:47.740 question I always like to ask here as we wrap up, because relationships are 454 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:52.539 our number one core value. Can you think or mention someone who's had a 455 00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:55.210 positive impact on your life or your career and give a mention to a company 456 00:33:55.289 --> 00:34:00.049 that you think is doing customer experience and in this case branding? I might 457 00:34:00.130 --> 00:34:05.210 have just been redundant. There do doing that really well. Yeah, so 458 00:34:05.369 --> 00:34:07.090 the you know, the first one I'd kind of say from a thank you 459 00:34:07.170 --> 00:34:10.840 standpoint in somebody that's been a big impact is a woman named Wendy Lee. 460 00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:15.639 Wendy is, she was on the board of directors, or is on the 461 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.639 board of directors for Text Stars, but we actually met when she is the 462 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.349 CEO of gets satisfaction, which was a great company in the the customer experience 463 00:34:23.349 --> 00:34:29.750 space back late to thousands, and when I was thinking about leaving PNG, 464 00:34:30.510 --> 00:34:32.550 Wendy was one of the people that I first sat down with and said here's 465 00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:37.750 what I'm thinking about, here's why I want accomplish and she gave me amazing 466 00:34:37.789 --> 00:34:40.860 advice that I've given to countless people after me, which was, you know, 467 00:34:42.019 --> 00:34:45.260 think about where you want to go in life and go one degree closer 468 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:49.539 every time you make a move and she said every time I've seen somebody fall 469 00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:53.409 on their face it's because they're trying to jump to May degrees over and that's 470 00:34:53.530 --> 00:34:58.489 very tough to do. And so that's been amazing advice for me and it's 471 00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:01.489 something that I've shared a lot and I've seen Wendy share a lot because she 472 00:35:01.690 --> 00:35:06.489 then, after gets as faction, actually came here to Cincinnati for the last 473 00:35:06.489 --> 00:35:10.400 few years to be our CEO for cent reviews, a great organization that we 474 00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:15.519 had here in town that's doing really kind of fun things making impact. And 475 00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:19.760 then, you know, to your question about who's doing it doing it right, 476 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:22.230 I'll actually bring back to example I've shared earlier, which is I do 477 00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:27.869 think terminus is one that, if you haven't studied it as a Bab marketer 478 00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:31.750 and as a concustomer experience professional, it's one you need to dive into. 479 00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:37.980 And the reason I think it's interesting is there's a mantro, especially with so 480 00:35:37.059 --> 00:35:40.420 much of Silicon Valley being a driver of the startup world, that you hear 481 00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:45.019 the well, you need the hacker, the Hustler and the designer as that 482 00:35:45.219 --> 00:35:50.730 Holy Trinity for the Startup World. And what was fascinating with terminus is that 483 00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:55.090 Sangrum was one of the CO founders as the chief marketing officer, and having 484 00:35:55.090 --> 00:36:00.050 a marketer as that founding team member, especially for a company that was going 485 00:36:00.090 --> 00:36:05.800 to be selling to marketers. You saw from day one they built the customer 486 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.480 into the heart and soul of what they were doing and there's so much inspiration 487 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:14.320 of how can you do that from day one that just will pay dividends for 488 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.280 a long, long time. It's outstanding. I really love the e double 489 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.869 down on that and look forward to sharing that feedback with him too. I'm 490 00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:24.590 sure he'll appreciate that. Can you give people a few ways, if anyone 491 00:36:24.590 --> 00:36:29.269 wants to go deeper learn more about the the various projects that you're involved in? 492 00:36:29.429 --> 00:36:31.510 Check out the PODCAST, check out the book. What are some ways 493 00:36:31.510 --> 00:36:35.219 that people can follow up with you? Yeah, so a few different ways. 494 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:37.460 One is pretty much any social thing you can think of. I'm at 495 00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:42.699 Dave knocks, so twitter linkedin. Go go down the list. All there. 496 00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:46.019 So just at Dave Knox, all one word and then predicting the turncom 497 00:36:46.210 --> 00:36:51.769 is my website that you can find all kinds of information, whether it's about 498 00:36:51.769 --> 00:36:54.170 a link to the book, to my podcast, to the work I do 499 00:36:54.329 --> 00:37:00.130 actually as a professional speaker with conferences and corporates or just what I'm doing from 500 00:37:00.130 --> 00:37:02.880 an Executive Marketing Coaching area. So any of those are a great place and 501 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:08.559 always happy take an email at day at predicting the turncom excellent. I hope 502 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:13.000 people take you up on that really, really great advice. You've seen a 503 00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:16.389 lot of stuff. You obviously have a very intelligent, informed perspective and I 504 00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:21.190 love the you continue to explore it through the podcast medium as well. If 505 00:37:21.230 --> 00:37:24.550 you want to subscribe to predicting the turn or to the customer experience podcast, 506 00:37:24.869 --> 00:37:30.260 you can find either of them in apple podcasts, itunes and in all the 507 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:34.820 other spots where you normally listen to a podcast. Thanks so much for this 508 00:37:34.940 --> 00:37:37.780 episode. Thank you, day for your time. Thank you. Thank you 509 00:37:37.820 --> 00:37:42.820 for everything. When you're doing with bombomb as well. I agree with Dave. 510 00:37:43.139 --> 00:37:46.849 Terminus is an awesome company and they are modeling great behavior in terms of 511 00:37:46.929 --> 00:37:52.570 community building. Hey, if you enjoyed this conversation on the CX series of 512 00:37:52.610 --> 00:37:57.650 the B tob growth show, check out the customer experience podcast. You can 513 00:37:57.690 --> 00:38:01.960 learn more about it by searching the customer experience podcasting itunes or apple podcast or 514 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:09.199 spotify or google play or Google podcasts, or you can go to Bombombcom podcast. 515 00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:15.269 That's the word bomb twice. Bomb Bombcom forward slash podcast. Thanks for 516 00:38:15.389 --> 00:38:22.630 listening. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 517 00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:27.070 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've 518 00:38:27.110 --> 00:38:30.739 started the BOB growth big three, a noe fluff email that boils down our 519 00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:36.539 three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet 520 00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:42.570 Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three
