Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.839 Branding is the art of diffrenciation. If you fail to diffrenciate, you aren't 2 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:10.630 branding, you're making a relationship with the right referral partner could be a game 3 00:00:10.669 --> 00:00:15.789 changer for any BEDB company. So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships 4 00:00:15.869 --> 00:00:21.190 at a moment's notice? Start a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be 5 00:00:21.390 --> 00:00:26.699 guests on your show and grow your referral network faster than ever. Learn more. 6 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:36.490 At Sweet Fish Mediacom you're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast 7 00:00:36.649 --> 00:00:40.689 for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary 8 00:00:40.689 --> 00:00:44.609 Vander truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of 9 00:00:44.729 --> 00:00:49.369 our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and 10 00:00:49.450 --> 00:00:53.759 authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. 11 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:58.840 They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing 12 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:02.600 BDB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder 13 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.349 of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also 14 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:10.189 one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing 15 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:14.109 leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will 16 00:01:14.109 --> 00:01:17.430 share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the 17 00:01:17.469 --> 00:01:26.939 world. Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Barriers to 18 00:01:27.019 --> 00:01:32.459 entry are down, competition is up and there's nothing more important than we can 19 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:38.329 do than create and deliver better experiences for our customers. That is differentiation, 20 00:01:38.450 --> 00:01:44.569 as is branding. There's an intimate relationship between brand experience and customer experience, 21 00:01:44.849 --> 00:01:48.879 and you're about to go deep into that in this episode of the Bab Growth 22 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.239 Show. My name is Ethan Butt. I host the CX series here on 23 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:56.519 the show, and you're about to spend a half hour with branding expert David 24 00:01:56.599 --> 00:02:01.069 Bryer. Thank you so much for clicking play on this episode of the Customer 25 00:02:01.150 --> 00:02:06.030 Experience Podcast. My name is Ethan Butt and I'm so excited to have David 26 00:02:06.109 --> 00:02:08.789 Bryer with me today. David, welcome to the show. Absolutely man, 27 00:02:08.830 --> 00:02:13.389 thank you so much for having me. David is the chief gravity to fire 28 00:02:13.469 --> 00:02:17.379 at DVD International. He runs a branding consultancy and agency. He's the author 29 00:02:17.419 --> 00:02:23.379 of brand intervention thirty three steps to transform the brand you have into the brand 30 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:27.939 you need, and this line one really resonated with me. Helping brands defy 31 00:02:28.219 --> 00:02:32.569 gravity and achieve brand elevation. So I normally start with a definition question, 32 00:02:32.650 --> 00:02:37.729 but I want to start with this instead. In this model of helping brands 33 00:02:37.810 --> 00:02:40.770 defy gravity, what is gravity in this case? What is the constant force 34 00:02:40.889 --> 00:02:45.400 that is that a company or a brand or a team has to fight against 35 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:47.960 all? I'd say there's two sides to that. What is the factor of 36 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:53.319 the ever increasing amount of noise out there and how do you not add to 37 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:59.189 it but actually still be a singular voice that's meaningful amongst all that noise? 38 00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:04.229 And the other flip side of that is that that you, as a brand, 39 00:03:04.349 --> 00:03:09.229 as an organization, that what happens is is that you do not fall 40 00:03:09.430 --> 00:03:19.099 into the sort of brand hell of using cliches and that will suck the life 41 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:23.620 out of a brand faster than a room full of politicians. Is Great. 42 00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:28.370 I knew I get a good answer on that, in a helpful one to 43 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:32.530 those are both great insights to find for me, customer experience. When I 44 00:03:32.569 --> 00:03:36.530 say customer experience, you what does that mean? What are some of these 45 00:03:36.530 --> 00:03:40.520 characteristics. What comes to mind on that term? Well, customer experience. 46 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:44.000 Well, let's let's look at this. Well, let me let me step 47 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:47.719 back and crush one myth right out of the gate. What I'm about to 48 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:52.080 talk about equally applies to be, to be as well as be to see. 49 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:57.030 There is this myth that, oh, well, do you brand businesses 50 00:03:57.069 --> 00:04:00.469 or do you brand the business centric businesses or customer centric businesses? And I'm 51 00:04:00.469 --> 00:04:04.590 like, excuse me, there's actually a person at the end of each of 52 00:04:04.669 --> 00:04:09.310 those decision points. One is making a decision for an organization, one's making 53 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:12.379 a decision for either their family or their cells or whatever like that. See, 54 00:04:12.419 --> 00:04:16.300 have slightly different criteria, but you're still dealing with having to be meaningful 55 00:04:16.339 --> 00:04:20.939 and impact a person. So, in terms of customer experience, one of 56 00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:27.730 the big, big potholes and customer experience is doing what is predictable. I 57 00:04:28.250 --> 00:04:33.170 I actually say that meeting expectations is a death sentence, and what I mean 58 00:04:33.290 --> 00:04:40.680 by that is any organization that merely does what is expected of them, their 59 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:46.639 days are numbered. Right, they're not giving you or me anymore then what 60 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.000 we expect it. They're not. You know whether it's and and that could 61 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:57.029 be anything. It could be the speed with which you respond if you're offering 62 00:04:57.069 --> 00:05:00.389 tech support. It could be people answering the phhone instead of machines. It 63 00:05:01.029 --> 00:05:04.069 could be like, for example. I mean I remember when you know what 64 00:05:04.189 --> 00:05:08.100 it I mean. We look at apple and apple introduced the genius bar. 65 00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:13.180 It brought the biggest sore point for technology was tech support. That was the 66 00:05:13.300 --> 00:05:15.259 most dreaded thing that anybody I ever had to do. They get on with 67 00:05:15.379 --> 00:05:19.620 some Bozo, or they wait for really long time or they would even try 68 00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:23.730 and be up sold to Jo. That's going to cost you mean any one 69 00:05:23.769 --> 00:05:27.610 of those? It was always a sore eye. And so apple, in 70 00:05:27.730 --> 00:05:31.410 a brilliant move, moves the genius bar into the stores themselves. You, 71 00:05:31.850 --> 00:05:36.879 as a consumer, have experienced. You have a an above above way exceeding 72 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:41.199 expectations. You're also dealing with a person right there who can look at it 73 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:45.920 with you, and the culture of apple being not like, for example, 74 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.550 it wouldn't have worked in the culture of best buy, because best buy isn't 75 00:05:49.589 --> 00:05:55.430 known for being a people centric culture. Right they're moving crap, they've got 76 00:05:55.470 --> 00:06:00.189 inventory, they've got four thousand different versions of laptops, they've got four thousand 77 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:02.069 different speakers. They got four that you know, it's like a gazillion. 78 00:06:02.069 --> 00:06:06.180 It's just invatory. They're shoveling crap. So when I look at customer experience, 79 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:11.980 I look at what's it's a very simple exercise. What's the benchmark for 80 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:15.180 what is expected? What's the norm becomes real SIP? What is the norm? 81 00:06:15.660 --> 00:06:20.129 If the norm is X Y Z, well, how how can you 82 00:06:20.170 --> 00:06:25.930 do a better X Y Z? Or How could you do Qrst U v 83 00:06:26.209 --> 00:06:30.050 W X Y Z? Because you know what, five percent, ten percent, 84 00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:35.199 fifteen percent more can make an enormous difference for the customer and be a 85 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.600 very slight investment on the part of an organization. As far as it's brandon 86 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.040 the yet, yet that could be the pivoting point that makes the difference in 87 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.879 terms of customer experence view, and me that's awesome. I also that the 88 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:49.389 way you describe the genius bar makes me see it differently. The thing that 89 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:54.350 I always appreciated about is got that kind of exit through the gift shop thing 90 00:06:54.430 --> 00:06:57.670 going on. We have to go all the way past all the gorgeous product 91 00:06:57.709 --> 00:07:00.310 displays to get there and I get on the way back out. So you're 92 00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:04.779 always like you know it is. It is genius, truly to create such 93 00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:10.819 a gorgeous space to tackle the biggest problem in a in a truly human and 94 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:15.339 helpful way, and then, you know, have that interaction with the product 95 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:18.490 display as well. When I hear what you just offered, which is great, 96 00:07:18.930 --> 00:07:21.529 what is the benchmark? How do I exceed it? Is there any 97 00:07:21.569 --> 00:07:27.610 risk in you have to continue to raise expectations for people who are doing business 98 00:07:27.689 --> 00:07:29.970 with you over time. And what does that look like? Is it? 99 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.600 Is that really it like? You just need to be better today than you 100 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.399 were yesterday and you have to keep doing that, because every day is a 101 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:39.959 new day and you got to, like I operate out of a basis of 102 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.600 fear, understand, and so I think like, okay, do I have 103 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.269 to keep raising the stakes? And I ate, yeah, okay, yeah, 104 00:07:46.670 --> 00:07:50.230 talk about that. You know, I can guarantee you look at any 105 00:07:50.790 --> 00:07:57.709 you grab any autobiography of any major achiever in the world, whether you're talking 106 00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:01.579 Michael Jordan, you talk Muhammad Ali, or you're talking about any artist or 107 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:09.980 any business leader or entrepreneur. Today's innovation. What ultimately happens? It becomes 108 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:15.370 tomorrow's norm. You know, you look at. I mean we now, 109 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:18.610 we will now, you and I will find things on the drive through menus 110 00:08:18.850 --> 00:08:24.129 on McDonald's and Burger King and Wendy's today that ten years ago, like no 111 00:08:24.329 --> 00:08:28.480 freaking way, are you kidding? You know, unusual, more exotic, 112 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:33.360 different things a little you know whether they you know, what's stuff in their 113 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:37.080 salads that's different, or seasonings or different taste profiles that ten years ago they 114 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:41.350 were they would laughter out of their corporate headquarters. Now, today, their 115 00:08:41.389 --> 00:08:50.070 mainstream. So if one has to really accept the fact that evolution, constant 116 00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:54.789 evolution, is the normal way to do business, it's not the exception. 117 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:58.980 It has to become the rule if you're going to continue to lead a color 118 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:07.500 uture of innovation needs to be your norm. And and complacency is the work 119 00:09:07.899 --> 00:09:13.690 of the dark Lord from Harry Potter or wherever you want to pick, whatever 120 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:18.970 dark line right. Yeah, NASTIES character you've ever encountered on a screen exactly. 121 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:22.009 It's like it's like the Zombie Apocalypse. If you're look at you go 122 00:09:22.169 --> 00:09:24.799 wait a second, because complacency is like hey, we've made it, and 123 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.159 I cover this in the book, which you know, I talked about the 124 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:35.480 fact that you know the what the difference between losers and real winners, or 125 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.990 or let's say short term winners versus long term winners. Let's put it in 126 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:43.789 that context. The long term winners realize that every time they reach a milestone, 127 00:09:43.990 --> 00:09:48.309 that that's a new start. Basically there is no finish line and whereas 128 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:50.870 the short term winners, they'll be like, oh good, we made it 129 00:09:50.950 --> 00:09:52.100 this mouse, so we can now coast, we can chill for a while, 130 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:56.740 we can kick our feet up, and that's not true. It's just 131 00:09:56.940 --> 00:09:58.700 not true. You need to always raise the bar. You Ne need to 132 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:03.539 always go okay. I mean and great example. I mean I just use 133 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:05.500 this because I know a lot about a not that, not because I'm like 134 00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:09.809 a Steve Jobs Junkie, but I do it I admire what he did so 135 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:15.809 much. I remember reading from his boot autobiography that when they were done with 136 00:10:15.889 --> 00:10:18.610 the first IPAD, before was ever released, he was already saying good, 137 00:10:18.929 --> 00:10:22.240 what's what's number two version going to look like? What's number three version? 138 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:28.960 Even before he was already already ready to outcreate, sort of literally make his 139 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:35.240 own product line obsolete. He was already planning on its own obsolescence based on 140 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:37.269 his own innovation, not waiting for somebody else to come along. So that's 141 00:10:37.309 --> 00:10:41.990 the that's the viewpoint of the true winner in today's in today's business model. 142 00:10:41.509 --> 00:10:46.309 So good. I love the idea of and this applies especially for people that 143 00:10:46.350 --> 00:10:50.019 are listening in in a software business, you know it's you know, but 144 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:52.460 this ipad thing, it's hardware, which you know you have to have a 145 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:56.340 formal release date. But you know, with with software, even though you 146 00:10:56.379 --> 00:10:58.179 can kind of correct it on the fly, you still have major releases. 147 00:10:58.299 --> 00:11:03.059 But knowing, okay, in order to make this deadline, we cut some 148 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:05.490 corners or we made some compromises or we said we'll do this later, but 149 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:09.570 having that plan baked into the whole thing from the get go to create this 150 00:11:09.690 --> 00:11:15.210 just constant movement for I love it. Talk now about brand or branding. 151 00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:20.200 How do you define it and what is its relationship to customer experience? Okay, 152 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:26.039 so little little back story, just to give a context here. About 153 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:31.919 five years ago I started looking at I start looking at branding from a stepoint 154 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:33.269 of how do I how do I simplify this, because all of a sudden 155 00:11:33.269 --> 00:11:39.750 I was starting to see so many more people entering into the branding space and 156 00:11:39.909 --> 00:11:43.830 people calling themselves branding experts and all these kind of stuff from Blah, blah, 157 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:46.950 blah, I'm will and thence graphic, graphic design background or something. 158 00:11:46.950 --> 00:11:50.419 Yeah, they they have a graphic design background or or they may or they 159 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:52.740 may have dabbled in social media channels and it's like, well, I'm a 160 00:11:52.779 --> 00:11:56.059 brand expert because I can get friends, I can get them eyeballs. What 161 00:11:56.139 --> 00:11:58.980 does make you a branding expert? That makes you a good person to get 162 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:03.570 attention to the brands. It's one part, but that's not the whole story. 163 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:05.730 So what happened was was I went to Amazon one day and I typed 164 00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:11.330 in branding on the books and I pressed search just to see how many books 165 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:15.529 and at the time and again, it's about six five. Six years ago, 166 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.840 there's over six thousand three hundred books. Blew my mind. Then there 167 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:24.039 was then, then then, I think most recently I've checked within the past 168 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.600 few months, it's up to eight thousand three hundred or something like that. 169 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.000 Now I think I did the math and if I did it write, if 170 00:12:30.070 --> 00:12:33.590 you were to read each and every one of those books, one per day, 171 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:37.230 would take you twenty two years. Okay, now the thing that's amazing 172 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:41.870 about that is this is a specific tool and the one thing that I know, 173 00:12:41.990 --> 00:12:45.940 I've been doing this long enough that I know when there's a lot of 174 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:50.059 different viewpoints about one thing, a lot of conflicting viewpoints, there's always something 175 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:56.700 central and fundamental that has not been well established. There's like a missing fundamental 176 00:12:56.779 --> 00:13:01.210 point if there's that many viewpoints, that many experts, that many philosophies and 177 00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:03.769 approaches and systems and things. And listened at the other so I looked at 178 00:13:03.769 --> 00:13:05.409 all this, I looked at all this, I looked at all this and 179 00:13:05.450 --> 00:13:09.769 then I actually realized it actually is one thing because I'd been using this successfully 180 00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:15.960 for clients. I'd also been using it in my own my own philanthropic activities 181 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.240 and raising millions of dollars for things that I care about. And so I'm 182 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.480 like, what am I doing and what's working here? And it came down 183 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:26.679 instead of all I of these eight thousand plus books, it came down to 184 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:33.190 a four word definition, and that Ford definition is the art of differentiation. 185 00:13:33.509 --> 00:13:39.309 Branding is the art of differentiation. If you fail to differentiate, you aren't 186 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:43.019 branding, you're making you might be making something prettier, you might be making 187 00:13:43.059 --> 00:13:48.379 something sound cooler. You might be rewriting its copy, you might be getting 188 00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:54.139 it more distribution points on social channels and other channels, but if you are 189 00:13:54.340 --> 00:13:56.169 not, if at the bed rock of each of those activities you are not 190 00:13:58.330 --> 00:14:01.409 differentiating, then you are not branding. And the reason that that's important is 191 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:05.250 because you and I, if I were to say I would say, okay, 192 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:07.529 even here's the deal. I have two bottles of water here, I 193 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:11.360 got sick one. Here's a sixteen ounce brand, a sixteen ounce brandby and 194 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.919 neither of these manufacturers have done anything to different shape one from the other. 195 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.120 I just say which one, which one do you want? Which one do 196 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:20.360 you want to buy? And you're like, you look at them, you 197 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.309 like you're trying to look at the label, you look an inside to see 198 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:26.710 if there's any difference in color or something. You can't tell any difference. 199 00:14:26.870 --> 00:14:30.789 The first things you're going to command in mouth is like well, which one's 200 00:14:30.789 --> 00:14:35.029 cheaper? Now it's not because you're cheap, but it's because you and I, 201 00:14:35.389 --> 00:14:39.580 we demand difference. We demand a point of difference and if a manufacture, 202 00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:43.019 if a company, whether they're offering a service or product, fails to 203 00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:48.299 deliver differentiation. The consumer will do it on your behalf. That's why, 204 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:54.129 that's why you get these races to the bottom of undercutting, undercutting, undercutting 205 00:14:54.129 --> 00:14:56.450 on price. The reason that that can happen is because those categories were that's 206 00:14:56.490 --> 00:15:01.769 happening. They have failed to differentiate and add value. Differentiate in this in 207 00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:07.129 this context, is synonymous with value, but it is clearly differentiation in the 208 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.039 in your eyes and in my eyes, like I can see that's totally not 209 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:15.039 like anything I've seen before. You look at the best product launches. That's 210 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.120 not like any I've seen before. You look at the best whatever, whether 211 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:24.950 they're anything sneakers, cars, clothing, building equipment, whatever. You know, 212 00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:26.470 it's just, you know, I mean even with what you've got going 213 00:15:26.509 --> 00:15:30.710 on with with Bomba Ba, I someone I ended up, you know, 214 00:15:30.789 --> 00:15:33.429 I was talking with somebody. I was like Whoa, I saw this thing. 215 00:15:33.470 --> 00:15:35.470 I was like and N I clicked on it. I'm like, I 216 00:15:35.549 --> 00:15:37.299 want to track track, track down who was this person that had this little 217 00:15:37.299 --> 00:15:41.740 animated gift in my thing, because I noticed what I did. I see 218 00:15:41.779 --> 00:15:45.700 this person on this little loop and it's whatever it is, the three second 219 00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:48.580 or four second animated gift, and I'm going. You know what, what 220 00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:52.450 did I do? I clicked play. I needed to hear what they were 221 00:15:52.570 --> 00:15:56.129 saying. I was compelled. I what I didn't fall into. Oh, 222 00:15:56.169 --> 00:16:00.529 I don't have time to look at that email right now. I was immediately 223 00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:06.279 compelled, instantaneously, and I'm a consistent observer of what are those things that 224 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:11.000 trigger me into action rather than Ah, that's just adding to the noise. 225 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.240 I'll get to that later and then I end up with way too many things 226 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:19.830 to get to later. Yeah, gravity used to come to gravity rather your 227 00:16:19.870 --> 00:16:23.269 sender succumbs to gravity. Yeah, so I lovely offer there this thing, 228 00:16:23.350 --> 00:16:27.830 and that's why I just want to reiterate this idea that there is no finish 229 00:16:27.909 --> 00:16:33.019 line and you have to constantly be innovating because if you're innovative and different times 230 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:37.539 to differentiation. You know, eight years ago, ten years ago, but 231 00:16:37.580 --> 00:16:41.340 now the norm has come to meet you because you've been complacent. You need 232 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:45.700 to reinvent. Hence the brand intervention. One of the one of the great 233 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:49.649 lessons in there is about seeing and being seen. Can you talk about that? 234 00:16:49.809 --> 00:16:53.009 Because I think you know what a lot of people not only will they 235 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:57.889 confuse branding with advertising, let's say, or even marketing in general, when 236 00:16:57.929 --> 00:17:02.879 we know that brand is even more broad and fundamental than any of those activities. 237 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:04.720 You know, I think a lot of people think that it's about, 238 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:07.519 you know, how do we look to the public? But can you talk 239 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:14.799 about this relationship between helping other people see versus seeking to be seen yourself? 240 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:18.829 Totally, totally. I'm always of the mindset for myself and for my clients 241 00:17:19.670 --> 00:17:26.269 is very, very important distinction. I'm always like, how do I empower 242 00:17:26.549 --> 00:17:30.579 my clients and how do I get my clients to empower their clients or customers? 243 00:17:30.259 --> 00:17:37.819 The greatest brands empower you and me if you and I feel bigger, 244 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:42.380 bolder, freer, more liberated, more empowered at the at the end of 245 00:17:42.460 --> 00:17:47.450 an interaction with a brand then we did at the beginning, rather than okay, 246 00:17:47.450 --> 00:17:49.690 I completed a transaction. That's how that's not anything. I mean even 247 00:17:49.809 --> 00:17:52.450 something is trivial. What do you I mean? And I know Amazon has 248 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:56.289 been like on everyone's chopping block. What lately they've been kind of like it. 249 00:17:56.369 --> 00:17:59.720 One's the love to kind of kick them these days. But let's take, 250 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:03.680 for example, even Amazon. What does Amazon do now? They have 251 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.400 they give me the user, they give me more of my time because I 252 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:10.359 can go in and out of there with the one click and I could be 253 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:14.430 out of there in about a minute and a half. Okay, that made 254 00:18:14.470 --> 00:18:18.589 me more potent. I didn't have to speak to somebody on the phone. 255 00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:22.150 I didn't have to spend twenty minutes, thirty minutes or whatever. I gave 256 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.779 me back twenty eight minutes. That's not that's not a big thing that it's 257 00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:32.140 not like a technological revolution where I have a computer and all of a sudden 258 00:18:32.180 --> 00:18:34.180 I can do things that I couldn't do before or blah, blah, Blah 259 00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:38.859 Blah. But that's an example. And so the thing is is when brands 260 00:18:38.980 --> 00:18:42.650 are looking at the equation of things, yes, you need to get eyeballs, 261 00:18:42.809 --> 00:18:48.410 but when you're getting those eyeballs, don't become so obsessed and fixated onto 262 00:18:48.329 --> 00:18:52.009 the issue of how do we get more eyeballs? How do we get more 263 00:18:52.049 --> 00:18:55.720 eyeballs? How do we you got to be in the you got to provide 264 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:00.000 value before you can seek to get value back. So how do the real 265 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.880 question becomes how do we help other? How do we help empower other instead 266 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.079 of how do we get empowered? How do we empower others? How do 267 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:12.309 we add so much to our customers? How do we give them so much 268 00:19:12.349 --> 00:19:18.670 more? And again it aligns we talked about earlier. We talked about meeting 269 00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:22.309 expectations is a death sentence. If I'm going to give you the same as 270 00:19:22.349 --> 00:19:26.220 anyone in my competitors could give you, why you going to come back to 271 00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:29.700 me? Why is that? Why is this relationship that we have going to 272 00:19:29.740 --> 00:19:30.980 be considered valuable to you? Why are you going to be loyal to me? 273 00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:34.180 You have no imp you have no incentive to do that. But if 274 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:40.930 every time I make sure that I give you some additional tools. I mean 275 00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:44.130 I will take twenty minutes in a conversation with a client and I'll say, 276 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:47.609 by the way, I just said something. I really want you to understand 277 00:19:47.769 --> 00:19:51.170 the meaning of what I've said and how you can use this. Here's why 278 00:19:51.289 --> 00:19:53.440 this is important. I never assume that they know why I'm staying what I'm 279 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:57.680 saying. So I take I take those ten, fifteen, twenty minutes and 280 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:02.440 I say I want to explain this to you because it's vitally important. If 281 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:04.799 you do not understand why, you will not be able to make use of 282 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:08.029 it. And that's one of the rules that I basically applied throughout my career, 283 00:20:08.069 --> 00:20:15.190 which is that rules enable you to follow, but knowledge enables you to 284 00:20:15.309 --> 00:20:18.869 lead. I never want a client to just have a set of rules that 285 00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:22.619 they can now follow. Okay, when we advertise here, this is what 286 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:26.460 the brand pieces we should use, and we do this, we should just 287 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.539 that's blindly being a robot. I want them to understand why are you doing 288 00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:33.140 that? You run, you must understand the role of differentiation. You must 289 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:37.890 understand why we've chosen the voice that we've chosen. You must remain attentive. 290 00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:44.410 You must realize when you've achieved one milestone, that's simply a milestone. That's 291 00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:47.970 yesterday's news. What's tomorrow's news? It's going to keep us as relevant tomorrow 292 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:52.119 as we sought to be yesterday. And so all of these things really start 293 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.279 to come together and they just make an amazingly powerful recipe. That's great. 294 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.000 So when in the recipe, you know, we talked, I think it 295 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.839 was before we hit record, about vision statements and mission statements and things. 296 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.630 What are these executables like? What are the you know, when you engage 297 00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:10.990 with someone, you know what is what is one of the leaf behinds in 298 00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:14.990 addition to this knowledge, in this philosophy, in this mindset that's so valuable 299 00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:19.259 to be operating from as a contributor in a business enterprise, do you leave 300 00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:25.019 them with some not again that rules, but, you know, some some 301 00:21:25.220 --> 00:21:30.380 documentations, some filters to evaluate opportunities on and move forward? Like what just 302 00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:37.289 tangibly? What's a what is a practical leaf behind that as an exercise to 303 00:21:37.369 --> 00:21:40.769 go with the knowledge totally? So well, there's there's a few, there's 304 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:45.450 a few different things in and to be just to give you a little sneak 305 00:21:45.130 --> 00:21:48.960 peek, a little pull back on the curtain, I'm acting putting together an 306 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:55.960 actual course that that goes, really dives quite deeply into this. But to 307 00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.079 give you an idea there there's there are four core phases and fifteen steps that 308 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.589 go into this. They go into this whole evolution. Some of the things 309 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:07.589 are really reminding them and sometimes I have to I have to beat up my 310 00:22:07.789 --> 00:22:12.190 clients verbally to basically say, what are you doing? Where the hell was 311 00:22:12.349 --> 00:22:18.019 that in the brand voice that we established? You fell back into your old 312 00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:22.259 habits and those old habits didn't they're not going to take it to tomorrow. 313 00:22:22.299 --> 00:22:26.339 Okay, they're not. They're not your gps for where you're going. And 314 00:22:26.019 --> 00:22:30.730 so a perfect case in point one of my one of my clients out of 315 00:22:30.730 --> 00:22:34.490 Napa Valley. It was just amazing because they saw a nine hundred percent growth 316 00:22:34.569 --> 00:22:38.690 in twenty four months after the rebrand that we did for them. Maybe about 317 00:22:38.849 --> 00:22:42.410 six months into it, the owner, Sandra, had called me up. 318 00:22:42.410 --> 00:22:47.240 She goes to David, we have a we have a new salesperson that we 319 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:51.160 want to introduce, that we want to actually take on, but they're not 320 00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:55.160 quite comfortable with the brand, with the brand title, the title of that 321 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.240 you came up with us, because I created titles that were part of the 322 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.869 brand culture, like, for example, because they produced this amazing stuff Napa 323 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:04.509 Valley, so delicious, these amazing short bread cookies that they were like melt 324 00:23:04.589 --> 00:23:08.150 in your mouth, ridiculous. They were a freaking drug. Okay, you 325 00:23:08.309 --> 00:23:14.019 needed you definitely needed like someone to be your supplier. You needed a different 326 00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:17.339 kind of intervention. It was a different kind of intervention. But what happened 327 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:22.740 was so she went from on her card, going from founder to chief indulgence 328 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:26.339 officer. Okay, that was her new title. So it had the spirit 329 00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:27.650 of the brand, it had the fun of the brand. The brand was 330 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:32.369 a fun brand. WHO's not a throughs brand? And so that was the 331 00:23:32.369 --> 00:23:33.490 you know, some brands are a little more serious and some brands are not, 332 00:23:33.890 --> 00:23:37.369 but that's one thing. It's like. You know, people do respond 333 00:23:37.410 --> 00:23:41.289 the fun. You'll notice people actually do respond to energy. And so it 334 00:23:41.410 --> 00:23:45.119 happens is the name of the salespeople. That I the title that came up 335 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.519 and I said I need your sales personel going to be called senior taste testalizers. 336 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.519 All right, and this person now, so the new persons coming and 337 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.440 say this person is not quite comfortable, David, with have this senior taste 338 00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:56.990 antiser. Can You? Can you dilute it a little bit it? I 339 00:23:57.029 --> 00:24:00.950 said, Sandra, I really don't recommend this. She's like no, please, 340 00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:03.069 can you just humor me? So I came up with something that was 341 00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:07.190 definitely diluted. There was no question and I didn't like it and I said 342 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:10.779 look, if you feel you have to, here you are, but whatever. 343 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:15.099 And so the funny thing is here's just the lesson in point. To 344 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:19.140 answer your question. This person comes in, the new title is given to 345 00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:25.130 her, this m diluted one. This person is there for a day at 346 00:24:25.170 --> 00:24:29.529 the end of a nine hour shift, as in this new sales capacity, 347 00:24:30.089 --> 00:24:33.089 the person, the culture was too much for her and she quit. And 348 00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:37.849 Son and the end sonds are the owner. Well, well, what a 349 00:24:37.930 --> 00:24:41.160 tell from the beginning exactly. She goes. I learned my lesson. She 350 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.799 goes. You told me it was off brand to do that. I said 351 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.960 yes, I did, and she got and I said why would you compromise 352 00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.150 your brand to satisfy her if she's already having problems with that? That's already 353 00:24:52.150 --> 00:24:55.309 it should be a red flag. seat. There's the door. We don't 354 00:24:55.349 --> 00:24:59.029 have to do business together and that and she goes. I will never ever 355 00:24:59.630 --> 00:25:02.750 go off brand again. And that would that's just one example, one much 356 00:25:02.829 --> 00:25:06.789 little baby example. So good. Hey, I could go an hour or 357 00:25:06.910 --> 00:25:11.259 two hours easily because I'm sure you have so many more great takeaways and stories, 358 00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:14.420 but I'm going to wrap this with the way I always like to wrap 359 00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:18.220 it because I always get such great answers. We're all about relationships here on 360 00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:22.250 the show and at bombomb and so I want to give you a chance to 361 00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:25.890 think or mention someone who's had a really positive impact on your life or on 362 00:25:25.970 --> 00:25:32.410 your career and to shout out to a brand or a business that's doing customer 363 00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:37.160 experience. Well, wow, well, okay, so I don't know that 364 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.240 I can limit it to one, but I'll try a couple drawn to do 365 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.160 please. So, so the first one and what? So, first of 366 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.920 all, Ted Reuben, if you know. I don't know if you know 367 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:51.869 Ted. You Know Ted, Yep, Ted, TED's. Teds like a 368 00:25:51.910 --> 00:25:55.349 brother from another mother. We're we're very kintured spirits. Ted Is Great on 369 00:25:55.470 --> 00:26:00.230 relationships and and to Ted Ted's. Ted's awesome in terms of relationships and customer 370 00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:03.819 experience. He's all about that. Damon John is a freaking rock star, 371 00:26:03.819 --> 00:26:08.859 Damon. Damon had actually responded to an article that I had written for Fast 372 00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:15.460 Company and he literally tweeted out the best article ever written on Shark tank ever. 373 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:18.450 That's what he tweeted out and I saw that I was like Holy Shit, 374 00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:22.970 right, I was just astonished and then I responded. He responded immediately 375 00:26:22.970 --> 00:26:25.970 back. I know. I didn't know damn at the time. So this 376 00:26:26.170 --> 00:26:30.970 is like and and Damon ended up writing the forward to my book Brandon Dimension, 377 00:26:30.049 --> 00:26:34.960 and so he's such a great example of someone who is never lost touch 378 00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:41.240 with being buried down to earth and accessible and he's such a continual shining example 379 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:47.150 of that and that's fabulous. And then also, I would say, I'd 380 00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:52.150 say Lacy Abachi, lacy a Bachi, she's gonna she's gonna go. No 381 00:26:52.309 --> 00:26:55.710 Way, you didn't mention me. I said I did. So she's someone 382 00:26:55.829 --> 00:27:02.339 that I came know Onlin and she's she's a really she's an awesome linkedin coach. 383 00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.500 She's really she's really cool, really quite badass. And those are those 384 00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:10.660 are three first ones. And of course I mean my my wife doesn't doesn't 385 00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:12.339 help me in this regard. She gives me great great customer serves as a 386 00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:17.089 fabulous spouse. We're we're just like, we're just an amazing team. But 387 00:27:17.210 --> 00:27:19.569 that I have to include, because not no answ would be complete without that 388 00:27:19.609 --> 00:27:23.250 in there as well. Coursen at. And then name a company that that 389 00:27:23.369 --> 00:27:27.930 you really respect the way that they're doing brand or customer experience. Wow, 390 00:27:29.089 --> 00:27:33.119 let's see here. Go to you obviously have some crients you love, but 391 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:40.240 give me something, something else, totally will you'll tell you know, this 392 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:44.039 is not this made me one or your listeners mayor may not be aware, 393 00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.069 but I'll tell you a company. They're more booty company, but I'd really 394 00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:49.750 dig him. Now you know I mean, obviously everyone knows sonos. Sono 395 00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:53.150 says done a real good job in terms of their own brand. But there's 396 00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:57.349 a company called, it's coming, called Peach tree audio and they have an 397 00:27:57.430 --> 00:28:03.579 amazing Bluetooth. So when we moved to our new offices about four years ago, 398 00:28:03.259 --> 00:28:07.140 I was looking for a Bluetooth speaker, like kickass one, and so 399 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:08.980 everyone say, Oh, Sono, Sono, sonas. That I was. 400 00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:14.250 That was I'm doing my own homework. And this deep blue too keeps on 401 00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:17.049 coming up that people are talking about. They see, these guys are like 402 00:28:17.170 --> 00:28:19.490 real audio files. They're really just they're just amazing. They're off the hook 403 00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:22.089 and they have all of these presets when you make it louder or lower in 404 00:28:22.170 --> 00:28:25.529 this air and that are like like, for example, like I didn't even 405 00:28:25.569 --> 00:28:33.079 know that when a sound signal goes across blue tooth that it actually loses sound 406 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:37.920 quality and that unless the speaker, the receiving speaker, compensates, you'll actually 407 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:40.839 end up with a diminished sound quality. I didn't know that. So a 408 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.309 really good Bluetooth Speaker is going to compensate and do it really to very high 409 00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:49.430 levels and these guys have been amazing. I've called up their tech support. 410 00:28:51.230 --> 00:28:55.309 They've called me back literally, of called me, but I mean on my 411 00:28:55.470 --> 00:28:59.700 phone ten minutes later and they've taken twenty minutes. Thirty minutes will be when 412 00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:03.339 I've had a few technical questions and they've been always accessible. And so that's 413 00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:07.220 a company's a smaller boot tea company, but it's a company that I completely 414 00:29:07.700 --> 00:29:14.930 I love. Their customer service is amazing and they're always available and they're just 415 00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.769 super supportive that it's really a lost art. Whenever I think of great customer 416 00:29:18.890 --> 00:29:22.049 service, I think of these guys. It's a great story because they've done 417 00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:26.160 some education with you right like before you engaged with them. This whole you 418 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.440 know, loss over blue tooth is like now you have something. I'm super 419 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.039 compelled now big, just just on that little learning alone. So great example. 420 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.920 Hey, David, has been so fun. If people want to follow 421 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:38.190 up, and by the way, I encourage you. I hope you mentioned 422 00:29:38.269 --> 00:29:42.950 linkedin. David produces a ton of video and it's just as engaging as this 423 00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:47.390 conversation was. David, where would you send someone to follow up with you 424 00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:49.910 or learn more about brand intervention? Well, I mean you definitely can go 425 00:29:49.990 --> 00:29:56.660 to rising above the noisecom oursimg. Rising above the noisecom is my website, 426 00:29:56.700 --> 00:29:59.420 so you can definitely go there. You can subscribe a as a Free Book 427 00:29:59.420 --> 00:30:02.900 Let, the Lucky Brand Ebook. You can download that. That immediately gets 428 00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:06.380 your subscription. I would recommend doing that because there's a lot of amazing stuff 429 00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:08.650 over the next several months is going to be coming out for those that want 430 00:30:08.690 --> 00:30:14.369 to learn. Definitely Hook up with me on Linkedin, subscribe to my Youtube 431 00:30:14.369 --> 00:30:18.529 Channel and Brandon eventually grab it. And here's the here's the tip. Here's 432 00:30:18.529 --> 00:30:21.960 the tip I'm going to tell all of you listens inside secret. If you 433 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:27.400 get not, if you when you get your copy of brand intervention, grab 434 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:32.599 the hardback copy. Trust me, the actual production guy who's are different than 435 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:37.230 the paperback. Get that one because when you see me, whether I'm speaking 436 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:41.309 in your city or you come to a conference from talking and you have your 437 00:30:41.390 --> 00:30:44.150 hardcover with you, I will sign your hardcover. You come up to me 438 00:30:44.230 --> 00:30:47.109 with a paperback, I'm going to look at you and I'm going to look 439 00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:49.180 at you say you're joking right, yeah, it's well, you didn't read 440 00:30:49.180 --> 00:30:52.940 the Amazon reviews. That's another thing Amazon does well. That's the one tip 441 00:30:53.339 --> 00:30:56.059 that I read on the Amazon reviews. You have to get the hard back 442 00:30:56.180 --> 00:31:02.579 because it's just as gorgeous coffee table experience, just really well designed and laid 443 00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:06.769 out. So great closer, David, thank you again so much for spending 444 00:31:06.849 --> 00:31:10.490 time with me today. I hope people love the conversation and they reach out 445 00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:12.769 and connect you on Linkedin. Oh, absolutely, man, I totally appreciated 446 00:31:12.930 --> 00:31:17.650 great interview and and keep on, keep on doing what you do with bom 447 00:31:17.769 --> 00:31:21.000 bomb them. You and I need to talk about Bumba more anyway, because 448 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.720 I I think I can actually like get you involved with some of my clients. 449 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.160 I think that there's I think that there's some real synergy there. That 450 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:30.079 can happen. They'll be awesome. Yeah, I mean you are your own 451 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.509 best differentiator and that's what we're trying to put forward, is you know who 452 00:31:33.549 --> 00:31:38.230 you are, and so these customer experience touches by video again, the asynchronicity. 453 00:31:38.269 --> 00:31:41.549 Yes, Great, I'm glad you have that vision and we do need 454 00:31:41.589 --> 00:31:44.950 to have that conversation. Absolutely, mad perfect. Thanks so much. Have 455 00:31:45.029 --> 00:31:47.900 a great rest of your week. Oh, Youtube, crush it. Bye 456 00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:53.259 Bye, bye, bye brand experience and customer experience our key to differentiation, 457 00:31:53.779 --> 00:31:59.539 and differentiating ourselves in a world of noise and competition is one of the most 458 00:31:59.539 --> 00:32:02.250 important things we can do. Hey, if you enjoyed that conversation, there's 459 00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:07.009 a lot more where that came from, on branding, on sales, on 460 00:32:07.210 --> 00:32:10.970 marketing, on CS, all in pursuit of discovering how we can create and 461 00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:16.759 deliver better experiences for our customers. Check out the customer experience podcast by visiting 462 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:24.960 Bombombcom podcast or by checking out the customer experience podcast in your favorite podcast player. 463 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:31.509 Thanks for listening. We totally get it. We publish a ton of 464 00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:35.750 content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. 465 00:32:36.269 --> 00:32:39.589 That's why we've started the BOB growth big three, a no fluff email that 466 00:32:39.710 --> 00:32:45.460 boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up 467 00:32:45.460 --> 00:32:52.420 today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. 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