Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:08.269
Hey there, this is James Carberry, founder of sweet fish media and one
2
00:00:08.269 --> 00:00:11.150
of the cohosts of this show.
For the last year and a half I've
3
00:00:11.150 --> 00:00:14.910
been working on my very first book. In the book I share the three
4
00:00:15.029 --> 00:00:19.429
part framework we've used as the foundation
for our growth here at sweetfish. Now
5
00:00:19.469 --> 00:00:22.219
there are lots of companies that ever. He'sed a bunch of money and have
6
00:00:22.339 --> 00:00:25.539
grown insanely fast, and we featured
a lot of them here on the show.
7
00:00:26.300 --> 00:00:30.539
We've decided to bootstrap our business,
which usually equates to pretty slow growth,
8
00:00:31.059 --> 00:00:34.539
but using the strategy outlined in the
book, we are on pace to
9
00:00:34.619 --> 00:00:38.530
be one of inks fastest growing companies
in two thousand and twenty. The book
10
00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:42.530
is called content based networking, how
to instantly connect with anyone you want to
11
00:00:42.649 --> 00:00:45.210
know. If you're a fan of
audio books like me, you can find
12
00:00:45.250 --> 00:00:48.329
the book on audible or if you
like physical books, you can also find
13
00:00:48.329 --> 00:00:53.479
it on Amazon. Just search content
based networking or James Carberry, car be
14
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:58.240
a ary in audible or Amazon and
it should pop right up. All right,
15
00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:03.240
let's get into the show. Hey, welcome back to the B tob
16
00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.989
growth show. My name is Ethan, but I host the CX series here
17
00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:11.390
on the show, as well as
the customer experience podcast. And if you
18
00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:14.430
want to get practical, if you
want to get some details, if you
19
00:01:14.469 --> 00:01:19.060
want to talk org structure, team
members, rolls, metrics and measures desired
20
00:01:19.140 --> 00:01:23.620
outcomes in more you're in the right
place. In addition to roles and responsibilities,
21
00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:30.299
we also talk about the relationship between
in customer success and customer experience as
22
00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:34.090
a practice, why the approach most
companies take to customer success is flawed and
23
00:01:34.329 --> 00:01:38.450
what they're doing to change that.
We talk about leveling up your metrics by
24
00:01:38.489 --> 00:01:44.530
using the customer Maturity Index. I
hope you enjoy this conversation with Luke Owen.
25
00:01:46.730 --> 00:01:49.920
Hey, welcome back to the customer
experience podcast. If you've been with
26
00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.760
us for a while. First,
thank you, and second you may have
27
00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:57.200
noticed that we've only had a few
folks on the show with customer experience in
28
00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.879
his or her title, and they
tend to be advisors, consultant speakers in
29
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:05.430
that type. So today we have
a gentleman who has customer experience in his
30
00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:07.349
title. Will talk a little bit
about that in particular. He spent more
31
00:02:07.389 --> 00:02:12.310
than four years and hub spot and
account management spent four and a half years
32
00:02:12.310 --> 00:02:16.020
as director of customer success at Bedrock
data. He's currently the director of customer
33
00:02:16.099 --> 00:02:21.780
experience at Form Stack. Luke Owen, welcome to the customer experience podcast.
34
00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:25.340
Thank you, Atin by the beer
good. Really really looking forward to this.
35
00:02:25.539 --> 00:02:28.780
I want to get into kind of
the title, the role, the
36
00:02:28.819 --> 00:02:30.490
structure a little bit, and I
think they're going to be some really fun
37
00:02:30.530 --> 00:02:34.250
nuances to get into there. But
we'll start where we always start, with
38
00:02:34.849 --> 00:02:40.490
your definition or your thoughts or characteristics
you'd identify in customer experience as a concept.
39
00:02:42.129 --> 00:02:46.400
Sure. So, for me customer
experience is sort of the partner soul
40
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:54.400
of an organization that superceedes that relationship
with the client right and keeps everybody aware
41
00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:59.750
of how strong that is or how
not strong that is, you know,
42
00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:05.189
so that we can put in the
right playbooks to to make that relationship at
43
00:03:05.310 --> 00:03:07.110
even stronger. So it's kind of
like this coolest of view, right,
44
00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:12.229
it's not like one team per se. It's sort of a sort of an
45
00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:16.379
organization that has lots of moving parts, lots of different functions within it.
46
00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:20.900
Awesome, you've done something that I
have not heard, I don't think,
47
00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.979
in asking that question, which is
kind of personified and like that in the
48
00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:27.610
heart and soul piece and and you
tapped into something that is probably one of
49
00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:30.250
the most challenging things about customer experience, which is how do we get everyone
50
00:03:30.250 --> 00:03:35.129
on board, how do we create
a holistic experience across the board and how
51
00:03:35.169 --> 00:03:38.650
do we make sure that all of
these different I forget the term you used,
52
00:03:38.770 --> 00:03:42.439
but you know, department's, team, silos, functions, parts of
53
00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:46.000
the organization are all operating together.
Just for context, before we go a
54
00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.199
lot farther, what is form stack
do for folks that might not be familiar?
55
00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.240
You know, what are you doing
for customers? Sure so, form
56
00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:55.590
stack. Little background. Form Sex
actually been around for quite some time.
57
00:03:57.030 --> 00:03:59.550
Started around two thousand and six.
Is One of the first, you know,
58
00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:03.750
sort of no code form applications that
you can build stop on your website
59
00:04:03.830 --> 00:04:06.909
to start, you know, getting
people to fill out your form on your
60
00:04:06.949 --> 00:04:14.659
website. Over the past few years
it's sort of migrated it's platform into being
61
00:04:15.139 --> 00:04:18.180
way more for sophisticated right. So
all the intake data that you would bring
62
00:04:18.259 --> 00:04:21.779
in from your forms can now start
to be utilized and sort of a back
63
00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:29.329
office where to help smooth operations out
within the organization. So lots of companies
64
00:04:29.569 --> 00:04:31.569
that find form stact really attractive nowadays. Are, you know, some of
65
00:04:31.649 --> 00:04:35.810
the EU healthcare. You know a
form sex YIP, a compliance. So
66
00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:41.759
a lot of these companies that operationally
have a lot of inefficiencies, if you
67
00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:45.680
will, haven't quite gotten into the
modern world, but now can through like
68
00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.759
this very sophisticated form application. So
it's really the sort of smoothing the workforce,
69
00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:54.470
if you will, operations Nice.
This was part of that evolution.
70
00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:59.269
Apis where the data can then be
put into all the places that various people
71
00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:01.870
might need it. Well that it's
interesting you bring that up. How I
72
00:05:01.990 --> 00:05:06.980
got to form stack was actually through
the bed rock data crew, because we
73
00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:13.620
got acquired by form stack earlier this
year and part of the reason they acquired
74
00:05:13.660 --> 00:05:16.180
us, you know, certainly we
share the same values and the same mission,
75
00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:21.170
but they sort of needed this layer, or needed to make this layer
76
00:05:21.689 --> 00:05:26.050
more sophisticated, to take that data
they're getting from their forms and be able
77
00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:30.250
to start moving it around a little
before efficiently to various systems that some of
78
00:05:30.290 --> 00:05:33.569
their customers are are using. Awesome. Love it and you actually answered a
79
00:05:33.569 --> 00:05:35.600
question I was going to follow up
with there, which is how did you
80
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.240
find them? How did they find
you? But that already came out.
81
00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.680
So for context, what do you
do as director of customer experience? I
82
00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.519
think you know your background is an
account management and see us in particular,
83
00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:51.029
killer what's in the title for you
and for the organization, and maybe then
84
00:05:51.269 --> 00:05:56.829
also kind of how are you structured? How do you report up? Who
85
00:05:56.910 --> 00:06:00.509
reports to you? Kind of what
does this role mean in a in a
86
00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:04.379
functional way? Right, right.
So the role itself was was there before
87
00:06:04.420 --> 00:06:10.220
me, of course, so customer
experience, but I actually I love the
88
00:06:10.259 --> 00:06:14.860
way that they've structured it. So
what I what I focus on is the
89
00:06:14.980 --> 00:06:20.209
support organization and that the success organization, the success team. That didn't quite
90
00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:24.689
exist until I got there. There
was a one gentleman who was doing some,
91
00:06:25.610 --> 00:06:28.889
you know, count management, general
success type activities, on boarding and
92
00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:33.000
things like that, but wasn't fully
developed out in any way. So I'm
93
00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:40.560
helping to develop sort of that Customer
Success Account Management Component of the experienced team,
94
00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:45.639
as well as overseeing the support team
that, again, has been there
95
00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.149
for for many, many, many
years. There is another elements, the
96
00:06:48.189 --> 00:06:53.470
customer experience team. That's also very
important to this sort of holistic, you
97
00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:57.589
know, view I have of what
customer experience is, which is a professional
98
00:06:57.670 --> 00:07:00.699
services that's actually being developed. I
don't oversee that. I've got a colleague
99
00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:05.620
that, along with her and me, are overseeing sort of this whole customer
100
00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:11.980
experience team that comprises them again,
support success. That's me. She runs
101
00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:15.699
the pro pro services. We have
an operations believe it or not, we
102
00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:18.810
have a little of CX operations,
but I like to kind of draw a
103
00:07:19.370 --> 00:07:25.689
call like our our atmosphere, our
protective ozone layer of the CX team.
104
00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:28.850
Cool. And so what does opps
do in that scenario? Is that like
105
00:07:29.050 --> 00:07:31.240
text AC and and data integrity or
like, what is it? What is
106
00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.199
opps in this context? Yeah,
it's it is sort of the text act
107
00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:41.000
management and primarily for CX, at
least at the support level, it's end
108
00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.949
us. So we use endsk at
form stack, and so it's really that
109
00:07:45.149 --> 00:07:48.670
team keeping that system as healthy as
possible, alongside some of the other systems
110
00:07:48.709 --> 00:07:53.550
that obviously care our customer data,
such as sales force. Cool. So
111
00:07:54.110 --> 00:07:58.110
when you get acquired, you get
this role, you get this title.
112
00:07:58.699 --> 00:08:01.740
What are like two or three of
the first things you did? Like assess
113
00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:03.579
the scene and then, like what
are a couple things that you said.
114
00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.939
Okay, I'm going to start here, right and then the reason I ask
115
00:08:07.220 --> 00:08:11.459
is you know, so, for
example, we have we have a VP
116
00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:16.649
of customer success who oversees the success
organization and a support organization, and we
117
00:08:16.730 --> 00:08:22.089
have directors of both of those functions
and of course all the probably common rules
118
00:08:22.129 --> 00:08:24.930
that fall under those. Your structures
a little bit different. And so if
119
00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:30.279
someone is in a situation like ours
here at bombomb and they want to move
120
00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:35.279
to a situation like you're in,
like when you get plugged in as director
121
00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:37.840
of customer experience, what does this
seem look like and what do you think?
122
00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:39.960
Okay, these are the first two
or three things I'm going to tackle.
123
00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:46.629
So, given the support organization had
been there and pretty well established by
124
00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:50.110
a couple of folks that have been
running the team for about two or three
125
00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:54.669
years. One in particular had a
strong background with apple retail and so she
126
00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:58.659
was really running a tight ship.
So I looked at that team and they
127
00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:03.340
didn't have a lot to let's say
fix if you will, although everything always
128
00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:05.779
needs to grow with the team.
You know, the company's growing. There's
129
00:09:05.779 --> 00:09:07.419
a lot, a lot of these
acquisitions, there's a lot of moving parts
130
00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:11.690
that certainly need to be to be
worked through and work together on, but
131
00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:16.490
she's got a pretty good along with
another manager recently promoted into the support team
132
00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:20.250
since it's growing. So I was
really been focused on sixth, on the
133
00:09:20.330 --> 00:09:26.919
customer Success Management Team, since that
again didn't quite exist besides just one individual,
134
00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:28.320
and that's really where I kind of
said, okay, we got to
135
00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:33.279
get our processes. We're going to
get our how are we working in alongside
136
00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.759
sales? You know, some the
most part sales had been the primaries,
137
00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.789
sort of manager of clients to some
extent, and so here comes along this
138
00:09:41.870 --> 00:09:45.269
customer success team and it's like,
how do we work together and really making
139
00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:50.590
sure that we're getting that sort of
relationship between sales and seat and customer success
140
00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.259
as harmonious as possible. You know, they as as you know. If
141
00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:58.059
you can't make a good experience in
that first ninety days, you're in an
142
00:09:58.100 --> 00:10:01.139
uphill B battle. So we have
to really focus in as much as we
143
00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:03.899
possibly can on how those two teams
are going to work. Hees. That's
144
00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:09.210
really where my focus has been,
is kind of getting well and in hiring
145
00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:13.289
the CSMS. Let's be honest,
I got in there one guy. We
146
00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:18.610
now have five CSM's, so that
was mission critical, of course, when
147
00:10:18.610 --> 00:10:20.289
we first God, it is just
building that team up. Cool. How
148
00:10:20.370 --> 00:10:26.039
do you organize your your CSM's is
as they're like? Are Are they tiered
149
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.120
based on account size? Like when
you look to build that team out from
150
00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.679
scratchin a masking on behalf of someone
that needs to do what you just did,
151
00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.909
you know, what were your thoughts
on how to how to hire and
152
00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:43.389
arrange those? Yeah, so I'm
going to answer it by saying there's a
153
00:10:43.429 --> 00:10:46.309
way I want to do it and
there's a way we kind of had to
154
00:10:46.350 --> 00:10:50.139
do it to some extent because so, again, the background is with form
155
00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:54.940
stack. They've gone through a bit
of a hiring acquisitions free over the last
156
00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:58.620
year. So better ack was the
fourth or third or fourth acquisition in the
157
00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:03.419
last year. So there was a
bunch of brands that are now part of
158
00:11:03.419 --> 00:11:07.210
the form stack world and the customers
that could the ideas that it's customer success
159
00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:11.210
overseas. If you're a form stack
customer, if you're a better rock customer,
160
00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:15.370
if you're web merge customer, you're
a form stack customer and we're going
161
00:11:15.370 --> 00:11:18.240
to be a customer success manager for
you at some level. So because of
162
00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.559
that we had to specialize a little
bit, you know. So we got
163
00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.120
two people from the support team that, you know, support always can be
164
00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.919
a great place to look for customer
success managers, product driven, you know.
165
00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.830
So they've got a little bit of
that relationship driven, you know,
166
00:11:33.029 --> 00:11:37.669
mindsets, some of that sales acting
then can be a great place to kind
167
00:11:37.669 --> 00:11:41.629
of find some success managers, and
so we brought two folks up from the
168
00:11:41.669 --> 00:11:46.470
support team. So one of them
just happens to be experienced with one of
169
00:11:46.509 --> 00:11:48.940
those brands, so she's focused on
that brand as well as bet rock data
170
00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:54.700
because of both pret technical and then
there's the form stack core sort of support
171
00:11:54.779 --> 00:11:58.500
reps, so she's focused really on
form stack. We did bring one outside
172
00:11:58.539 --> 00:12:03.210
enterprise customer success manager who wasn't with
inform stact as a way to, you
173
00:12:03.250 --> 00:12:07.409
know, obviously I'm there as a
director, but in an additional leader to
174
00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:09.570
kind of be there along with this
really junior team for the most part.
175
00:12:09.970 --> 00:12:15.129
So that was the only outside and
she's just focus on enterprise to some of
176
00:12:15.169 --> 00:12:20.559
our more marquee clients. kind of
that's so. So that's kind of specialized,
177
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.879
right. So it's very targeted in
terms of like what you can work
178
00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.879
with at a technical level. Ideally, what would like to get to is
179
00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:33.710
more of its structure at a sort
of revenue level. So if you're,
180
00:12:35.070 --> 00:12:37.629
you know, paying anywhere from three
hundred and ninety nine to, you know,
181
00:12:37.710 --> 00:12:41.029
six hundred and Tinety nine, you're
in the small busines, you know,
182
00:12:41.110 --> 00:12:43.750
mid market team or small business team, and then we get to the
183
00:12:43.789 --> 00:12:46.740
midmarket and then we get to enterprise
and it really doesn't matter which products you
184
00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:50.460
have. It's more we're going to
tier it in that way. So it's
185
00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:52.779
makes it a little bit more you
don't have to necessarily think about it at
186
00:12:52.779 --> 00:12:56.940
a product level, and I can
get a little bit tricky and Harry,
187
00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:00.210
because then as people buy more products, then you have to constantly be thinking
188
00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:03.090
about, oh now I got US
sign us out over here to this,
189
00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:05.929
and then that customer experience to starts
to break down. So if you make
190
00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:11.370
it more simplistic at a revenue level, likely, you know, customers are
191
00:13:11.529 --> 00:13:15.159
going to be jumping that often,
although you of course want them to expand,
192
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.759
but they're going to probably stay within
a certain traunch for a little while
193
00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:24.320
and have that customer experience sort of
stay somewhat, hopefully the same the same
194
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.750
person over time, really important.
I love that. This idea of being
195
00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:31.070
sensitive to, you know, breaking
those relationships and starting new ones. You
196
00:13:31.149 --> 00:13:35.750
know, the handoff from sales to
SS is enough to manage well, you
197
00:13:35.830 --> 00:13:39.429
know, and then handing, additional
handling, additional handoffs beyond that can be
198
00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:43.740
tricky. Cool. I it's interesting
the situation and I can definitely see you
199
00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:48.019
going in the next evolution or kind
of the next expansion of the team to
200
00:13:48.139 --> 00:13:50.620
go, you know, in the
direction that you've described, once you have
201
00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:54.500
kind of the brands and product breaks
covered a bit and people start to to
202
00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:58.129
grow. Let's get a little bit
into your philosophy. I mean again,
203
00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.570
you have a you know, a
decade of experience in Account Management and C
204
00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:05.330
S, which I guess actually let's
start. They're had a conversation with a
205
00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:11.000
guy that I work with and we're
talking about CSS in a way just being
206
00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:16.960
the new language for account management.
Talk a little bit about either or both
207
00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:22.879
of customer success or customer experience as
kind of new languages or they feel new,
208
00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.789
especially to someone younger in their career
that hasn't seen kind of the old
209
00:14:26.909 --> 00:14:31.429
become new again. Talk a little
bit about either. Were both of those
210
00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:35.750
terms and kind of what they mean
to you from a we've been working on
211
00:14:35.870 --> 00:14:39.899
customer success pretty much since we've been
running businesses, but we have this language
212
00:14:39.940 --> 00:14:43.980
in some practices around to talk about
that. Yeah, so I'll give you
213
00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:46.620
sort of my background. Right is, as you mentioned, or so years
214
00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.220
at hub spot and I started there
in two thousand and ten and when I
215
00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:54.370
join, you know, they had
this customer success management sort of team that
216
00:14:54.529 --> 00:15:00.049
was building out from the consulting team
that they had and I you know,
217
00:15:00.289 --> 00:15:03.009
for me I didn't quite know what
that meant to some extent, but as
218
00:15:03.049 --> 00:15:07.080
I got into the role it became
kind of a running joke that we'd always
219
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.480
be like, you know, I'm
your customer success manager and that's just a
220
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.159
fancy way saying your account manager.
Right. We we constant extend because clients
221
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.240
of ours, you know, hut
spot had all sorts of different kinds of
222
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.870
customers, from mom and pop shops
to, you know, various big businesses,
223
00:15:20.950 --> 00:15:24.269
and they didn't know what the Hecker
Customer Success Manager was. We ended
224
00:15:24.309 --> 00:15:28.269
up actually changing the title at hub
spot, I want to say maybe two
225
00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:31.870
years in when I was here,
maybe in the year and a half or
226
00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.309
something like that, from Customer Success
Manager to Account Manager. He said let's
227
00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:37.899
stop, let's stop having to say
that extra thing, right, you guys
228
00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:41.700
work out managers. And then,
funny enough, and I still have a
229
00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:46.179
business card for when we were CSMS
and I never got it changed. You
230
00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:48.100
know who use the business cards,
and all those times, and then I
231
00:15:48.139 --> 00:15:52.690
left in two thousand and fifteen and
we moved back to being called customer success
232
00:15:52.690 --> 00:15:56.250
managers. So I think it was
kind of like this evolution of the market,
233
00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.090
just shoving it down businesses sort of
I wouldn't say throats, but hey,
234
00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:03.840
that customer success manager team essentially mean
a dedicated person that helps you with
235
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.639
your account over a like period of
your which is kind of a again,
236
00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:14.480
it's account manager. So for me, I it's I struggle with it to
237
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.480
sometimes because yes, we have customers
because as managers the form stack, but
238
00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:21.990
to me it's not just one team. Write the or. You know,
239
00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.269
if we had a customer success team
at form stack, I probably structure it
240
00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:29.029
just like I am doing it,
with the customer just like they did it
241
00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:33.460
and how I'm adopting it with customer
experience. That it is sort of this
242
00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:40.779
pillar of foundational functions that involved that
ball around account management and on boarding and
243
00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:45.419
customer support, prosservices, right.
So it's like those things in another themselves
244
00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:48.929
are customer success or customer experience,
for whatever you want to call cool.
245
00:16:49.370 --> 00:16:52.649
Let's get a little bit into philosophy
and I'll start with, and I've just
246
00:16:52.730 --> 00:16:56.610
got a few of these for you, customer success as a philosophy, not
247
00:16:56.809 --> 00:17:00.929
as a function. This gets a
little bit back to holism, but I
248
00:17:00.049 --> 00:17:03.000
love you just kind of share your
perspective and maybe a couple things you've learned
249
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.480
over the past decade around around this. Yeah, I mean I think to
250
00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.079
me it's pretty pretty obvious. Right
at the end of the day, you
251
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:18.750
have to lead out with the customers. What kind of value are they perceiving
252
00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:22.349
right to get out of your solution, or what do they want to get,
253
00:17:22.829 --> 00:17:27.789
and really centering all of your conversation
from the beginning sale right all the
254
00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:33.180
way to the on boarding and throughout
the life of that customer and really understanding
255
00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.940
what are your primary desired outcomes,
as they want to call it, what
256
00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:40.299
do you want to achieve? And
sometimes they don't always know and it's our
257
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:44.059
job to help guide them to what
those might need to be and if we
258
00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:47.369
lead out with that right not to
say, Oh, you know, I
259
00:17:47.529 --> 00:17:49.170
have product A, B and C
and that's what you know. You woke
260
00:17:49.210 --> 00:17:52.289
up one morning saying you need it. We need to really be digging into
261
00:17:52.690 --> 00:17:56.450
not this is the product I have
for you, but you're use case that
262
00:17:56.529 --> 00:18:00.000
you have or your desire, you
know, outcomes that you have I can
263
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:04.039
help you with and it just so
happens these solutions can get you there.
264
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:11.400
And to me that philosophy has to
has to be throughout the entire organization.
265
00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.349
It can't just be the customer success
team that's carrying that philosophy through. has
266
00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:18.470
to be everybody and at the end
of the day, your you need to
267
00:18:18.549 --> 00:18:25.430
build the resources to continue to not
just say I'll we've successfully sold them on,
268
00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:27.900
letting them say, Hey, I
can get my use cases imployment with
269
00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:30.579
this product and then we're off,
you know, we're off to the new
270
00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:34.380
client. You have to continue to
identify, okay, I got that use
271
00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:37.460
case, implement it. Now,
what's a new one you want to do?
272
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:41.250
You know, in seven months or
eight months there's something new. Otherwise
273
00:18:41.289 --> 00:18:45.329
you're just it's just a static thing. Or I successfully did what I want
274
00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:48.849
to do. And then if there's
no identification of other new things, things
275
00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:52.849
they want to do or other goals
or other use cases, and you're not
276
00:18:52.049 --> 00:18:57.200
tracking that and you don't have a
team that's maintaining that, then that's where
277
00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:02.200
the SASS model breaks apart. As
we know, you're just that that long
278
00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:06.400
tail is going to get chopped off
the minute they get bored of your product
279
00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:08.359
and it's so easy to leave it
out. So if you're not keeping that
280
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:12.589
cycle of use case understanding and what
they want to get, what their desire
281
00:19:12.589 --> 00:19:15.150
outcomes, are you not tracking it? You don't have a process, whether
282
00:19:15.269 --> 00:19:18.910
that's a human being process, if
you're a BB company selling a large inner
283
00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:23.940
quest solution, or some automated team
working through and tracking these things, and
284
00:19:25.059 --> 00:19:26.779
you you're dead in the water.
Over, I don't know how long you're
285
00:19:26.779 --> 00:19:32.299
going to be around, but it's
going to take. It'll happen. Yeah.
286
00:19:32.420 --> 00:19:36.099
So so let's pick up on that. I love the documentation and the
287
00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:41.210
continued conversation or that is such that
you can retain and expand these accounts,
288
00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:45.410
metrics and measures. So you know, got traditional ones like churn and health
289
00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:48.450
scores. I'd love to hear a
little bit more about the customer maturity index
290
00:19:48.809 --> 00:19:52.160
and when we were chatting before we
hit record, you know you're working on
291
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:56.880
something else. So I don't know
how secret it is, but you know,
292
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.440
I'd love to know how you see
the future of metrics and measures of
293
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.920
success. So start with the traditional
going to the maturity index and then here
294
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.990
as much as you're willing and able. Sure. So, so right churn,
295
00:20:08.109 --> 00:20:14.150
everybody always focusing on and it's important. We've tend to look more specifically
296
00:20:14.150 --> 00:20:18.309
at net revenue, retention, at
a form stack, so kind of taking
297
00:20:18.109 --> 00:20:22.619
all that into one you know,
consideration, you know, we look at
298
00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:25.660
it from a quarter to quarter basis. We look at net retension. So
299
00:20:25.779 --> 00:20:27.500
there is a key KPI for us. Don't don't get me wrong, but
300
00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:30.859
I always struggle with it. I
think a lot of us do. That
301
00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:33.180
that's that's a that's a lagging in
the kid. You know, it's not
302
00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:37.490
so much what should I be looking
out for, Worre should I be focusing
303
00:20:37.609 --> 00:20:45.009
my time? So I stumbled upon
bowses bowse mayors right customer Maturity Index,
304
00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:48.410
I guess what about two years ago, and to me it was kind of
305
00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:52.200
a light bulb moment in some regard
of that. We always are asking ourselves
306
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:53.599
at hut spot I. You know
a lot of smart people. They're like,
307
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:59.200
how else can I say this customer
success team is being success? Like
308
00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:02.599
how are we how are we measuring
what the customer success team was doing and
309
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.109
then ultimately leading to our customers being
successful, or potentially successful, if you
310
00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:08.869
will, like, what kind of
measurement can we do? And is always
311
00:21:08.910 --> 00:21:12.869
lots of different like experiments and stuff
like that, but nothing really seems sick.
312
00:21:14.470 --> 00:21:18.220
And so his idea really Reson it
with me now what we're doing at
313
00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:21.700
form stack. So I don't know
if you want me to go into details
314
00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:25.740
of what the CMI is, or
maybe basics, like like a quick drive
315
00:21:25.859 --> 00:21:29.299
by, and again I'll link up
to it in the in the blog post.
316
00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:30.500
For anyone that's listening that wants to
check it out. Just go to
317
00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:36.769
bombombcom slash podcast and then all the
all the blog post will be posted there
318
00:21:36.809 --> 00:21:37.849
and I'll link it up. But
yeah, just give a give a,
319
00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:41.490
you know, couple lines on the
CMI. Sure. So the idea is
320
00:21:41.569 --> 00:21:45.529
that obviously everybody knows health scores.
Generally speaking, you're building out sort of
321
00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:48.640
this score of like how healthy is
the client based on their usage of your
322
00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.680
product? Right, so it's more
of a how healthy is that relationship from
323
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:56.599
with your customer and your product,
which is important. It's great to have
324
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.240
that insight, but in and of
itself that's not a great sort of idea
325
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.509
of how successful they might be.
Are How happy it might be? Are
326
00:22:03.630 --> 00:22:07.470
they a churn risk? It you
know you have somebody using your product like
327
00:22:07.589 --> 00:22:11.190
crazy, but still be a churn
risk. So he add this idea of
328
00:22:11.349 --> 00:22:15.140
the customer maturity index, which would
be sitting alongside another access point with the
329
00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:21.779
health score, that really focus more
on the relationship of your customers abilities to
330
00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:26.859
gain value out of your product.
How structured are they in their organization,
331
00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:32.329
from things like have they used a
product like yours before? Who are the
332
00:22:32.410 --> 00:22:34.609
stakeholders? How many are there?
Does this go all the way up to
333
00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:40.529
the sea sweet or is it just
some one employee that's overseeing one department that's
334
00:22:40.569 --> 00:22:42.730
bringing this in as an experiment?
And how likely, what did they need
335
00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:48.759
to be successful and kind of gaging
that sort of whatever those attributes are for
336
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:52.000
your business can vary. So it's
building that index alongside with the Health Score,
337
00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.839
gives you this sort of Matrix that
you can then start plotting your customers
338
00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.869
on. Okay, they're using your
product, but they're not really set up
339
00:22:59.910 --> 00:23:03.109
to really understand how to gain that
value. Right. So you have all
340
00:23:03.150 --> 00:23:06.549
these playbooks based on the four quadrooms
that you have that you can start to
341
00:23:06.630 --> 00:23:08.230
play out. You start to think
like, oh, top right, those
342
00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:11.349
are people that are using our pot
like and our wealth positioned within the organization.
343
00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:15.700
Based on their structure, they should
be our success stories. Does it
344
00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.619
mean? Again, none of this
means that these people are happy and I'm
345
00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:21.380
not turn risk. It just means
that's what they should be and that's our
346
00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:22.940
playbook. Right. We now to
make them happy, you know, be
347
00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:27.089
they should be our our advocates and
our referral mechanisms. And then the lower
348
00:23:27.089 --> 00:23:30.130
left, of course, are you're
not using your products, not really structured
349
00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:33.170
that well. A lot of effort
to go in right to try to make
350
00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.049
those people turn around, and sometimes
you have to make decisions right in our
351
00:23:37.089 --> 00:23:41.519
kind of businesses, that you might
just have to leave those folks alone for
352
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.200
a little bit and start focusing on
the areas we have their opportunity. That
353
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:48.480
is that, in the nutshell,
right and to me and I open to
354
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.039
add this extra layer along your health
food. Now, how we're doing that
355
00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.309
at forms to act slightly different variation
that we're starting to play out. It's
356
00:23:56.390 --> 00:24:00.309
very early stage. I don't have
any results, but it's kind of being
357
00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:03.710
piloted right now where we're taking this
sort of approach of if you think about
358
00:24:03.829 --> 00:24:07.829
this journey, right, of a
customer within a company like form stack or
359
00:24:07.869 --> 00:24:11.619
any software, or it really any
company, I guess there's all these different
360
00:24:12.099 --> 00:24:17.859
periods and milestones that you have that
you call this desired outcome. Right,
361
00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:22.980
I have a desired outcome on a
feature. There's a feature I really like
362
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:26.890
to would like to have so I
can do more things with your solution.
363
00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:30.170
Right, that's a desire I coming
now. Maybe I needed immediately, maybe
364
00:24:30.369 --> 00:24:32.490
it's a nice to have. So
if you get it in six months,
365
00:24:32.529 --> 00:24:34.410
great, whatever it is, but
there's some desire there. And then there's
366
00:24:34.450 --> 00:24:38.240
also down to the like its minuter
things up. I got a support ticket
367
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.799
and it's turned into a bug and
it's impeding our ability to really use your
368
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:45.319
product. Well, so I have
a desired outcome of having that bug fixed
369
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:52.200
in a certain time period. Tracking
those is really tricky because you've got all
370
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.029
those things happening in various places.
But if your organizations like FORSAC, where
371
00:24:56.029 --> 00:25:00.670
you're building a customer success component,
or Account Management Team Component, whatever you
372
00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:04.710
want to call it, in this
sort of layer of customer experience, then
373
00:25:04.789 --> 00:25:08.779
you have this opportunity to have this
team that oversees their clients be able to
374
00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:15.539
identify those desired outcomes and start tracking
and creating literally an activity fee, because
375
00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:17.859
that's what desired outcomes are. They're
going to happen, they're going to happen
376
00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:21.890
multiple, multiple times. Some of
them are going to have more importance to
377
00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:25.410
the likelihood of the customer being happy
over a period of time. So you
378
00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:29.890
can start to kind of envision a
similar sort of Constitutencymi, where you add
379
00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:34.170
a different layer of waiting cut mechanisms
to those desired outcomes. Did you do
380
00:25:34.329 --> 00:25:41.359
that extra index alongside your product usage? That's how where we're focusing our love.
381
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.680
It really I'd love to follow up
in like six to ten six to
382
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:48.599
ten months and to see how it's
going. Is really clever ways to layer
383
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.269
that last thing here before we kind
of move on to a couple slightly more
384
00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:57.390
personal questions for fun. Three pillars
of success here, you know, onboarding,
385
00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:00.309
account management and supporter, or kind
of the three pillars of success.
386
00:26:00.710 --> 00:26:03.380
Where do you see maybe for each
of those, where do you maybe see
387
00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:07.700
people fall down or missed opportunities or, you know, for someone that's that's
388
00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:12.180
listening, it's that that is in
CST Cx, talk about the importance of
389
00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:17.660
these three pillars and maybe a just
a pro tip around each of them.
390
00:26:18.220 --> 00:26:25.009
Yeah, I think it's easy for
organizations to want to say right that they're
391
00:26:25.490 --> 00:26:30.569
a unified organization, but at the
end of the day these are separate teams.
392
00:26:30.609 --> 00:26:34.559
Right. Support has its functions and
its processes. Customer success has its
393
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.880
functions in this processies and pro services
and on, you know, whatever it
394
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.480
is, technical services and support engineers, they have their processes and teams and
395
00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:47.470
managers. So you know, you
we're all under one umbrella, but we
396
00:26:47.630 --> 00:26:51.430
have to we have to have this
vision right, that were we are one
397
00:26:51.549 --> 00:26:55.109
team. You know, doesn't matter
where you sit and where you might be
398
00:26:55.710 --> 00:26:59.589
in terms of your responsibilities with the
client, at the end of the day
399
00:26:59.630 --> 00:27:03.859
we're one big outfit called customer experience, and I think it's it's easy to
400
00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.740
like lose that. I guess focus
and lose that, lose that vision sometimes
401
00:27:07.779 --> 00:27:11.940
because when we go back into,
like our respective teams were back into the
402
00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:15.579
grind right of the day to day. So it's trying to kind of keep
403
00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:18.289
everybody, you know, reminding of
what is that vision, even if it's
404
00:27:18.289 --> 00:27:22.250
not fully implemented right that moment and
it may still be a little disjointed and
405
00:27:22.410 --> 00:27:23.650
people are saying like, when's this
going to happen? When are we going
406
00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.730
to be like seeing across both internally
and organization and externally by our customers as
407
00:27:27.809 --> 00:27:33.240
is one big giant organization that can
help you grow and be successful with our
408
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.920
business. I think it's just continuing
to have that focus, even if things
409
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.720
are going to they're going to fall
apart from time to time, right,
410
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.349
and you just got to keep keep
people's energy up about where we're going to
411
00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:47.309
go and it might take six months
or m take ten months or whatever.
412
00:27:48.069 --> 00:27:52.549
So that's the thing. You don't
lose help very it. It's gets good
413
00:27:52.630 --> 00:27:56.950
for anyone. It's kind of a
fun question that I that I tend to
414
00:27:56.990 --> 00:28:00.700
ask people who specialize and I've asked
it across all three of these kind of
415
00:28:00.740 --> 00:28:03.779
departments, marketing, sales and see
us I'll just ask this to you one
416
00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:06.579
way. What do you wish in
your experience? What do you wish more
417
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:14.289
salespeople knew or understood about customer success? Great Question. I love that question.
418
00:28:14.769 --> 00:28:19.170
What I wish they understood about come
is that we're we're partners with them
419
00:28:19.690 --> 00:28:23.450
and that we're not competitives, but
we're not in a competitive space, like
420
00:28:23.930 --> 00:28:27.440
we're not fighting to get, you
know, the upgrade. You know that
421
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:33.160
that you might be also try.
Like sometimes you get these various areas of
422
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.720
like sales has, you know,
measured also on their retent to, their
423
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:40.160
ability to grow there install base,
and then csms come along and it's like,
424
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.910
whoa Wa wait a minute, what's
happening here, like are they taking
425
00:28:44.029 --> 00:28:47.390
over my relationship with this client?
And it has to be seen more as
426
00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:51.750
a partnership, you know, in
that customer success is there to help really
427
00:28:51.950 --> 00:28:56.980
grow that customer together and hopefully benefits
both of us. Of course it end
428
00:28:56.980 --> 00:29:00.460
a day, but certainly you,
salesperson, will reap the benefits because we'll
429
00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:06.299
be helping those customers use the product
more and those expansion opportunities and up graportudies
430
00:29:06.339 --> 00:29:11.170
will come along the way. Love
it one team don't lose hope. So
431
00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:15.450
personal question, just because I'm curious
and that's the fun opportunity I have as
432
00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:18.650
to host of the show to talk
to smart folks like you. You are
433
00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:22.009
a Bachelor of Science and philosophy at
the University of Vermont. Why Philosophy,
434
00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:26.799
and is there any kind of unique
or surprising way that it's it's you know,
435
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.880
you found yourself somewhere along your career
dream said man, I'm so glad
436
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:33.880
I have a background philosophy. Right. So it's one of those stories,
437
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:36.240
right. I you know, backgrounds
easy. I. How did I get
438
00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:40.029
into it? I was a business
major starting out and I hated the professor's
439
00:29:40.029 --> 00:29:44.670
right the end of the day,
I had a hard time going into that
440
00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:49.950
building and actually feeling like I was
going to have a successful educational outcome,
441
00:29:51.509 --> 00:29:56.980
whereas I'm like philosophy classes, I
loved all the professors engaged, you know,
442
00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:00.019
going in that building was was a
breath of press here, and so
443
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:02.980
for me it was like a no
brainer, like I don't want to go
444
00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:06.940
through this next four years not being
happy with who I'm being taught by.
445
00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:10.089
I'd rather go and have a good
relationship with my professor. That was really
446
00:30:10.130 --> 00:30:12.450
the big obviously, at the end
of day, reason why I went to
447
00:30:12.569 --> 00:30:18.289
philosophy. I'm somebody who likes to
be I like having the ability to talk
448
00:30:18.410 --> 00:30:22.799
to people about my ideas, of
my opinions, but also listen to them
449
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:27.200
and try to understand their argument,
and I find that aspect of philosophy and
450
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:33.200
what I learned in that process has
immensely helped me in what I've done over
451
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.269
the last ten years in my career. Working with customers all walks of life.
452
00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:41.630
You have to really understand where they're
coming from. You can never assume
453
00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:45.869
right that somebody knows something that you
might know or knows it in the same
454
00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:49.539
way right and how they're talking to
you about it. So to me that
455
00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:55.819
is such a great background if you're
somebody WHO's trying to get into customer service
456
00:30:56.460 --> 00:31:00.859
sales. Even just being able to
understand how to have those dialogs so good.
457
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:03.289
I'm so glad I asked. Hey, this has been awesome. I've
458
00:31:03.369 --> 00:31:07.970
really enjoyed it. Love what you're
doing. Love that you already have a
459
00:31:07.049 --> 00:31:11.650
vision for where you're going while you're, you know, turning, you know,
460
00:31:11.730 --> 00:31:15.609
building this team out under, you
know, an acquisition and merge situation
461
00:31:15.849 --> 00:31:21.200
here. Relationships are our number one
core value here at bombomb and on the
462
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.599
podcast, and so I always like
to give you the chance at this point
463
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:27.599
to think or mention someone who has
a had a positive impact on your life
464
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:32.119
for career and to give a mention
to a company that you really respect for
465
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:37.470
the types of experiences they're delivering to
you as a customer. I've had some
466
00:31:37.710 --> 00:31:41.390
really I mean it's a tough question
and yet I know you were going to
467
00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:44.390
ask him. I've been thinking of
Bout my head, like who who has
468
00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:47.109
had the biggest impact, and it's
kind of on the things where it's the
469
00:31:47.180 --> 00:31:49.299
most recent. I guess that I
would say when I came into bed rock.
470
00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:52.539
You know, I came out of
hub spot. Had A lot of
471
00:31:52.819 --> 00:31:57.140
experience, obviously there with the customer
experience, but not a ton of focus.
472
00:31:57.380 --> 00:32:00.740
Right, if you think about it, it's like million things that you
473
00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:02.450
want to try to do when you
get this opportunity coming out of like being
474
00:32:02.490 --> 00:32:06.329
an interest contributor and wanted to grow
a team. It's like where do you
475
00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:10.049
focus? So I was immediately probably
not focus very well. When I was
476
00:32:10.170 --> 00:32:15.519
first at bedrock we brought on a
crow chief ev an officer probably around two
477
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:21.519
thousand and thirteen the amount de Petro
and he his backgrounds log me in.
478
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.279
He's had tons of experience in the
Boston area in the revenue space, but
479
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.990
he really helped kind of tone my
ability to focus on working through the problems
480
00:32:31.109 --> 00:32:36.549
that needed to be worked on the
most, and I would say that experience
481
00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:43.150
and understanding that the sales relationship,
between sales and customer experience, customer success.
482
00:32:43.269 --> 00:32:46.259
I owe a ton to that man. Awesome. How about a company
483
00:32:46.339 --> 00:32:51.700
that you've had some good experiences with
great experience? Well, you know,
484
00:32:51.859 --> 00:32:57.579
for talking about from a business software, I guess experience. You know,
485
00:32:57.660 --> 00:33:01.289
I myself tend to try to limit
how much text Stac I have to be
486
00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:05.849
honest with you, so I don't. You know, I use sales force
487
00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:08.609
and I can't say too much about
their experience, to be perfectly honest.
488
00:33:09.089 --> 00:33:13.720
But you know, in terms of
I use every note. I absolutely love
489
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:15.519
ever notes. You know, it's
not a you know, it's a one
490
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:19.680
too many experiences of product experience,
what they do and how they help me
491
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.039
guide, like how I can structure
my notes and just little things that the
492
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:27.390
tech touches that they do. I
think there are phenomenal company in that regard.
493
00:33:27.910 --> 00:33:30.750
I am a big user, though, at a music level. I
494
00:33:31.069 --> 00:33:38.710
use all sorts of applications for music. I use from spotify to soundcloud to,
495
00:33:39.710 --> 00:33:43.500
you know, use word pressed for
a blog that I used to run,
496
00:33:44.019 --> 00:33:46.539
and medium, you know. So
all those companies inspire the heck out
497
00:33:46.579 --> 00:33:50.220
of me, you know, at
a sort of how do I make the
498
00:33:50.299 --> 00:33:53.660
experience? How can I somewhat are
you know, replicate some of those experiences
499
00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:59.250
of this company do like spotify,
Netflix and those companies and bringing into the
500
00:33:59.289 --> 00:34:04.089
BB space, obviously with the not
the data scientists they've got, but sort
501
00:34:04.130 --> 00:34:07.490
of be able to replicate that in
some level? Awesome. So I you
502
00:34:07.569 --> 00:34:09.280
know, take away there for anyone
listening is look around you, because you
503
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:14.320
have everyday experiences that could be you
know, if you're a little bit more
504
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.760
conscious, for intentional about it,
you could apply the things that you're experiencing
505
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:22.920
yourself and and turn those into practices
and experiences for your customers every day loop.
506
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:27.150
This has been awesome. How can
someone connect with you or follow up
507
00:34:27.190 --> 00:34:30.670
with you and or with form stack
whim on twitter? Pretty active on twitter.
508
00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:37.630
My handles chip Owen. That's Kip
from a nickname throughout high school and
509
00:34:37.710 --> 00:34:42.099
college and just never goes away.
Might as well keep it at Kip Oh
510
00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:45.099
and if you want to pay me
there and also on Linkedin. You know
511
00:34:45.139 --> 00:34:51.300
it's for simple luke own cool and
form stack is form stackcom, form stack,
512
00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:53.889
Yep, loup dot own a,
form Stacom. Awesome. Thank you
513
00:34:54.010 --> 00:34:58.329
so much for your time. Thanks
so much for your insights. Continued success
514
00:34:58.369 --> 00:35:00.010
to you. Love the journey that
you're on and I really appreciate your time
515
00:35:00.050 --> 00:35:06.369
with us. Thanks. Thank you. I have to tell you I'm never
516
00:35:06.530 --> 00:35:10.920
disappointed when I ask what more salespeople
should know or understand about cs or what
517
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.920
marketers should know or understand about sales. If you want more conversations like this
518
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:22.190
one, subscribe to the customer experience
podcast in your favorite player and if you
519
00:35:22.230 --> 00:35:28.550
want to go deeper into this episode
or any other, visit bombombcom slash podcast.
520
00:35:28.949 --> 00:35:32.190
We break down every episode with right
ups and video clips and a whole
521
00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:37.340
lot more. That's at bombombcom slash
podcast. My name is Ethan Butt and
522
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:45.619
thanks for listening to the B tob
growth show. We totally get it.
523
00:35:45.019 --> 00:35:49.659
We publish a ton of content on
this podcast and it can be a lot
524
00:35:49.780 --> 00:35:52.530
to keep up with. That's why
we've started the BOB growth big three,
525
00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:58.530
a no fluff email that boils down
our three biggest takeaways from an entire week
526
00:35:58.570 --> 00:36:04.210
of episodes. Sign up today at
Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet
527
00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:07.039
PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three