#CX 5: Neuroscience, Trust, and the Human Face w/ Ed Powers

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:10.710 The neuroscience behind trust and the power of human faces too, critical themes on 2 00:00:10.910 --> 00:00:16.550 this episode of the CX series on BB growth. Our guest is customer success 3 00:00:16.589 --> 00:00:22.339 expert Ed powers, and this conversation is the single most downloaded episode of the 4 00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:27.539 customer experience podcast. My name is Ethan Beut. I host the CX series 5 00:00:27.660 --> 00:00:32.299 here on the show and I've known ED powers for years. He's the first 6 00:00:32.340 --> 00:00:37.490 guest I ever hosted and he provides great insight on how to build connection with 7 00:00:37.770 --> 00:00:42.729 our customers. Here we go. Hey, thanks so much for playing this 8 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:47.170 episode. Glad you're listening in. I'm really glad that you're here and I'm 9 00:00:47.170 --> 00:00:50.960 glad to have our guests this week, ed powers, who I know as 10 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:56.759 a longtime consultant into software companies, into the SASS space around how to reduce 11 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:00.600 term but specifically, among other things, he's got an amazing framework for building 12 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:07.430 real human relationships at scale. Ed, welcome to the customer experience podcast, 13 00:01:07.790 --> 00:01:10.909 but I see it's been great to be with you. That's my background with 14 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:14.310 you, but you've got a certainly a more nuanced and interesting background that I 15 00:01:14.349 --> 00:01:17.549 shared there. Can you just let folks know who you are, where you're 16 00:01:17.549 --> 00:01:19.739 coming from and what you're up to. Sure even well, I've been in 17 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:25.060 business about thirty years or so. I have spent some time in sales and 18 00:01:25.140 --> 00:01:30.099 marketing. I was an operations and quality of run organizations and startups, big 19 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:36.689 companies, and I spent about fifteen years or so in consulting and these days 20 00:01:36.849 --> 00:01:42.250 I'm back in an operations role at a company and South Denver called and telesecure, 21 00:01:42.370 --> 00:01:46.810 and we're in they managed it security business. So that's a little bit 22 00:01:46.849 --> 00:01:49.079 about me. And Right now, we were talking before, I'm in the 23 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:52.560 midst of writing a book, so that's been kind of a hobby of mine. 24 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.400 That's awesome. Is it's the theme of the book similar to kind of 25 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:59.799 where we're going to take this conversation today. Yeah, absolutely. The book 26 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:05.950 is really about the customer experience and applying neuroscience to that. So how do 27 00:02:05.989 --> 00:02:10.270 you make your customer experience brain friendly and how does that warm up your interactions 28 00:02:10.310 --> 00:02:15.460 and how does that drive customer attention and loyalty? Cool, I'm sure trust. 29 00:02:15.539 --> 00:02:19.419 You know, when we when we talk about building relationships at scale and 30 00:02:19.979 --> 00:02:23.580 neuroscience and brain friendly, I'm sure trust is the essence of this. Can 31 00:02:23.620 --> 00:02:25.460 you just paint a broad picture about where we're going to go over the next 32 00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:29.740 fifteen to twenty minutes. Yeah, trust is, you know, I'm sure 33 00:02:29.780 --> 00:02:32.169 everybody's heard the addage. You know, people do business with people they know, 34 00:02:32.409 --> 00:02:37.849 like and trust, and you know it's intuitively obvious that that's the case. 35 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:43.090 But there's also some interesting empirical data that also supports that. There've been 36 00:02:43.169 --> 00:02:50.479 some studies among the the loyalty researchers that really show when customers are buying something, 37 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.360 a product or service, and there's a risk associated with that, they 38 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:59.590 tend to rely much more strongly on their sense of trust. And Trust is 39 00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:01.830 kind of the glue in our social environment, whether it's, you know, 40 00:03:01.909 --> 00:03:07.430 an intimate person that we have in our lives or business associates or friends, 41 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:10.990 you know you need to trust them. So I we'll talk a lot about 42 00:03:12.030 --> 00:03:15.939 about that whole idea. Sure. So trust is one of those words, 43 00:03:15.020 --> 00:03:20.620 kind of like customer experience is where I say it and you know what it 44 00:03:20.740 --> 00:03:24.379 means, but you might have a different understanding or definition for it in somebody 45 00:03:24.379 --> 00:03:28.289 else. How do you in the in the context of this conversation, how 46 00:03:28.409 --> 00:03:31.129 do you define trust, like what are its key components? Yeah, and 47 00:03:31.449 --> 00:03:38.810 and I really like the definition that of trust being a willingness to accept vulnerability 48 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:43.879 or risk when you work with someone. So it's it's your comfort level right 49 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.039 that that you can be vulnerable, you can be your true self, you 50 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:52.199 can say something without repercussions. You're not going to be judged. You know 51 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:59.150 so. So trust is really this the sense of comfort, safety and security 52 00:03:59.229 --> 00:04:02.509 working with someone else. And the psychologist say that it really breaks down into 53 00:04:02.629 --> 00:04:12.060 three major components. Its ability, benevolence and integrity. And ability is competency, 54 00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:16.620 you know, consistency and behavior. Benevolence is caring for someone, that 55 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:21.939 there's there's genuine commitment to share goals. And Integrity is, you know, 56 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:26.050 doing the right thing, even though sometimes it can be the hard thing. 57 00:04:26.689 --> 00:04:29.449 So the the example that I use, as you know, think of your 58 00:04:29.529 --> 00:04:31.889 doctor, right, and so is do you trust your doctor? Well, 59 00:04:31.930 --> 00:04:36.129 let's let's run the litmus test. Is She a good healer? Does she 60 00:04:36.329 --> 00:04:42.000 genuinely care about you as a person, not just a patient? And you 61 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.920 know, if you have to have a difficult conversation, is she going to 62 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:47.759 shoot straight with you? And if the answers yes and all of those conditions, 63 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:50.920 you probably trust your doctor. Right, that's a great example and I 64 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:56.189 love those three elements that you broke out there again. Ability, benevolence and 65 00:04:56.310 --> 00:05:00.269 integrity does just sound like the words I would associate with someone I like. 66 00:05:00.829 --> 00:05:04.670 Yeah, and apparently trust. And so you know, when these things are 67 00:05:04.790 --> 00:05:09.100 this is a process. They're right. Like I need to sense the benevolence 68 00:05:09.139 --> 00:05:11.860 in you, even if I don't assign those words in my mind to you 69 00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:15.540 and my experience with you. And that's just one of the three components. 70 00:05:15.579 --> 00:05:17.980 How do we come to trust each other? How do we build this in 71 00:05:18.259 --> 00:05:23.730 people's minds through experience? Yeah, it's a great question and there's been some 72 00:05:23.970 --> 00:05:28.689 my interesting neuroscience on that. You know, we talked about earning someone's trust, 73 00:05:28.730 --> 00:05:31.610 right. Well, we actually learn about trust. Trust as a learning 74 00:05:31.730 --> 00:05:35.560 process and, like you say, it comes through the experience. There's a 75 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:43.000 neuroscientist by the name of Luke Chang who did an interesting experiment using something called 76 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:47.120 the trust game, and the trust game is a is an economic experiment that 77 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:50.790 has been around for a number of years and it's like an investment game. 78 00:05:50.870 --> 00:05:56.949 So you work with other players in this game and you invest money with these 79 00:05:56.990 --> 00:06:00.790 other players and it pays a big return, but some players will return that 80 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:03.779 money back to you and take your money. They invest. You'll see what 81 00:06:03.899 --> 00:06:08.100 they get back. Some of them will share it back and then other ones 82 00:06:08.139 --> 00:06:11.819 will keep it for themselves. Right. So what they do is they that 83 00:06:11.939 --> 00:06:15.540 you play this game over and over again and you learn which which partner is 84 00:06:15.660 --> 00:06:19.730 trustworthy and which one is not, and the proxy for that is the amount 85 00:06:19.730 --> 00:06:24.769 of money you invest with that person. So in that experiment, what they 86 00:06:24.810 --> 00:06:27.569 do is they ring the game, of course, and you know they have 87 00:06:27.769 --> 00:06:31.129 some players that are and will return the money eighty percent of the time and 88 00:06:31.649 --> 00:06:35.199 others that or return only twenty percent of the time. And through the course 89 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:39.079 of playing the game you kind of learn, well, this person I can 90 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:42.560 trust, that person I can trust, and you can actually see that it 91 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.920 actually when you measure the amount of money that's invested. Lo and behold, 92 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:51.149 it's a reinforcement learning is that through those experiences you learn who can be trusted 93 00:06:51.230 --> 00:06:56.430 and who can't. And one thing that that Chang also studied, which is 94 00:06:56.550 --> 00:07:00.459 really interesting. He has a mathematical model that shows is very predictable. And 95 00:07:00.699 --> 00:07:05.139 there's two elements to this. There's there's what you learn over time and there's 96 00:07:05.300 --> 00:07:11.139 what you learn initially. What do you believe about another person and which you 97 00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:15.529 believe tends to set the stage for how you behave throughout that experience with another 98 00:07:15.610 --> 00:07:19.209 person. It's really interesting. So loop Chang, if you want to look 99 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:25.769 him up, Sejanng. So if one component is where we start in the 100 00:07:25.889 --> 00:07:29.329 other component is what we learn through experience, what is that? Where do 101 00:07:29.410 --> 00:07:32.279 we get our initial beliefs about trust? I have to assume that varies across 102 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:36.879 the population to some people probably grow up in much more trusting environments. I'm 103 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:41.920 sure some of it is deeply instinctual and part of the human experience we're in 104 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.230 general. We'd our initial baseline starting points. You know, for example, 105 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:47.829 I think about tipping when I'm at a restaurant. I started twenty percent. 106 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:50.269 If someone does an amazing job, to go up to twenty five or even 107 00:07:50.310 --> 00:07:55.189 thirty percent, and if it's terrible they might go down to fifteen percent. 108 00:07:55.430 --> 00:07:58.189 I'm really not the ten percent guy. So I have a baseline and things 109 00:07:58.230 --> 00:08:00.259 get better or worse, and I feel like that's what you're talking about. 110 00:08:00.259 --> 00:08:03.939 Her's people have some kind of an initial belief, for a baseline for how 111 00:08:03.139 --> 00:08:07.060 trusting they are. Of other people. Where does that come from? Yeah, 112 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:09.779 like you say, law, some of it is environmental and there are 113 00:08:09.819 --> 00:08:13.850 individual differences and some people genuinely are more trusting and there's actually there's an age 114 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:18.089 dependency as well as the older you get, the more trusting you are, 115 00:08:18.209 --> 00:08:22.810 which is but but generally we use, you know, the brand likes a 116 00:08:22.850 --> 00:08:26.160 lot of shortcuts, you and it tends to use what other information, what 117 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:31.679 whatever information is available at the time to make these initial assessments. But we 118 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:35.720 always do it automatically. We do it so consciously. If you were to 119 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.679 know somebody you know, like you know the mafia, is always this person's 120 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.230 is a friend of ours or is a friend of mine, and because of 121 00:08:43.309 --> 00:08:48.230 the association you know from someone else, you you said expectations about that other 122 00:08:48.309 --> 00:08:52.789 person based upon what you hear from someone that you trust. So that's one 123 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:56.019 way. But in this case there was something really interesting, and researchers have 124 00:08:56.179 --> 00:09:01.100 known this for quite some time, is that just showing someone a face is 125 00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:09.019 enough to set a trust expectation about someone else. So just showing a face 126 00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:13.289 as it is important. And what they found was that just by showing a 127 00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:18.889 face, Smiley face or an angry face. That alters people's behavior. There 128 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:22.490 it forms an initial trust belief. So it doesn't take very much at all 129 00:09:24.049 --> 00:09:26.519 to to get someone to set like a little condition in the brain and the 130 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.240 once they have that little anker, then they then they work with that anchor, 131 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.200 just like in your tipping example. Hey, everybody, Logan the sweetish 132 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.870 here. If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know 133 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:43.750 we're big proponents of putting out original, organic content on Linke did, but 134 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:46.590 one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is to easily 135 00:09:46.750 --> 00:09:50.750 track the reach of that linkedin content. That's why I was really excited when 136 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:54.620 I heard about shield the other day from a connection on you guessed it linked 137 00:09:54.700 --> 00:09:58.539 in. Since our team started using shield, I've loved how it's let us 138 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:05.379 easily track and analyze the performance of our linkedin content without having to manually log 139 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:11.129 it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generates some dashboards that are incredibly useful 140 00:10:11.289 --> 00:10:13.970 to see things like what content has been performing the best and what days of 141 00:10:15.049 --> 00:10:18.529 the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views proposed. I'd 142 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.559 highly suggest you guys check out this tool if you're putting out content on Linkedin, 143 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.639 and if you're not, you should be. It's been a game changer 144 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.639 for us. If you go to shield APP DOT AI and check out the 145 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.440 ten day free trial, you can even use our promo code be to be 146 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.350 growth to get a twenty five percent discount. Again, that's shield APP DOT 147 00:10:39.429 --> 00:10:43.509 AI and that Promo Code is be the number to be growth. All one 148 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:50.899 word. All right, let's get back to the show. Obviously, then, 149 00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:54.620 this is a deep part of the human experience. I have to imagine 150 00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:58.740 that our ability to judge based on faces and have impressions based on basis is 151 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:03.299 part of our deep survival instinct, or something like that. How did what 152 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:07.370 was that? What are the dynamics behind access to the human face and and 153 00:11:07.529 --> 00:11:09.210 all the things that it triggers in us? Yeah, you know, it's 154 00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:13.330 interesting because one of the first skills we ever learned as an infant, right 155 00:11:13.370 --> 00:11:16.850 before we can talk, we can recognize faces, and so we're hard word 156 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:22.559 for that and may have shown that in less than a hundred milliseconds, which 157 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.279 is about three times faster you can than you can blink your eye. You 158 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:30.000 process a face and what you do is you look at the eyes and the 159 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:35.309 mouth and what you're really looking for is their emotional state. We attribute an 160 00:11:35.389 --> 00:11:39.509 expression to an emotional state, and the eyes and the mouth are very descriptive 161 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:43.710 for us and we can instantly tell is this person, this new person that 162 00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:46.990 I'm seeing for the first time? Is this a friend or foe? Who 163 00:11:46.379 --> 00:11:48.820 is this person going to do me good or they're going to do me harm? 164 00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:54.700 And that we have wiring in our brain that goes to our our Migdalo, 165 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.860 which is our our fear detector, and they're also imprints on our memories. 166 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:03.129 So we immediately make this association by looking at the face when we say 167 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:07.570 I can trust that person. That person looks a little shaky to me, 168 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:11.490 and we do it so consciously, automatically whenever we see a face, but 169 00:12:11.730 --> 00:12:16.799 instantly, Yep, yeah, that's you. You gave me new language and 170 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.840 new understanding for something I've known and even taught before, which is that human 171 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.519 emotion expression through the face is both universal in a night we all do it 172 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.919 from birth. That's the innate part, and we all do it across history, 173 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.590 across cultures, across the side as we all do it the same way. 174 00:12:31.710 --> 00:12:35.429 So even if someone is sitting with a translator and the translator hasn't hasn't 175 00:12:35.429 --> 00:12:39.309 translated the person's words to you from another language. You still have a sense 176 00:12:39.389 --> 00:12:43.830 of you know, are they angry? Are they clear, or they excited? 177 00:12:43.909 --> 00:12:46.860 Are they happy, etc. So we do a lot of work in 178 00:12:46.940 --> 00:12:52.100 video at bombomb here, and so something a lot of people run into, 179 00:12:52.100 --> 00:12:58.220 because obviously the implication what you're saying is in our businesses, sharing our faces 180 00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:00.769 and a variety of ways more often it's going to be a benefit to us. 181 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:03.970 But a lot of people get hung up on I got a face for 182 00:13:03.049 --> 00:13:09.009 radio kind of stuff. Talk about that, right. So for someone who 183 00:13:09.009 --> 00:13:13.960 lacks the confidence to appear more often, whether in video or whether in photos 184 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:18.559 or whatever, live video chats or video emails or whatever, talk about that 185 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.559 dynamic is did is any face work? Yeah, actually, any face does 186 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.230 work, and it's funny. They can even they've done experiments where they're just 187 00:13:26.350 --> 00:13:30.870 three dots, right, there's the two dots where the eyes are, the 188 00:13:30.909 --> 00:13:33.789 little doubt for the mouth, and we recognize that kind of face. That's 189 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:35.830 how hard Worre we are, you know, we ever, when you see 190 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:39.309 the front grill on a car, you see a face or you see you 191 00:13:39.389 --> 00:13:43.179 know, our rock formation or clouds, you see a face. So we 192 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:46.980 we're hyper sensitive to look to interpret anything that looks like a face. But 193 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:52.620 in terms of trust, it's really the expression and not not the nature of 194 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.450 the face itself, unless you're dating, of course. Now, if you're 195 00:13:56.450 --> 00:14:01.009 dating, there is some science that shows people like symmetry in the face and 196 00:14:01.090 --> 00:14:03.690 people will fixate on that and whatever. But if that's not true goal, 197 00:14:05.409 --> 00:14:07.409 you just need to look into the camera. You know, I straight ahead 198 00:14:07.409 --> 00:14:13.000 and smile and that's really all that's necessary to create a sense of trust. 199 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:16.960 I love that. I'm going to be scanning the environment for faces even more 200 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.799 intentionally now than I was before you introduced that. But I've experienced all the 201 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.110 things you described in clouds and rocks and things. One of the business implications 202 00:14:24.230 --> 00:14:26.909 here. So just to kind of connect the DOTS as we wind up, 203 00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:31.350 you shared a lot of compelling research. I think all of it makes sense. 204 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:35.350 You've spoken directly to the one of the things that motivated me to to 205 00:14:35.429 --> 00:14:39.580 start this podcast in the first places. And where does the human belong in 206 00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:43.980 the customer experience, whether it's a tangible product or an intangible product or that 207 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:46.940 or the product isn't experience. It's itself button this down a little bit around 208 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:52.220 this research. Where's this point? What can someone do differently over the next 209 00:14:52.220 --> 00:14:54.210 day or week or month, or what can they teach their team? You 210 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.570 know, how might we operate differently in light of this information? At sure, 211 00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:03.409 and it's you know, What's interesting in these economic experiments, and again 212 00:15:03.409 --> 00:15:07.840 these are laboratory conditions where they measure things and they control of variables. But 213 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:11.840 in the laboratory environment they have found by sharing, by showing a face, 214 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:20.600 that the cooperation or the trustworthiness and these interactions increases about fifteen to twenty percent, 215 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.990 depending upon the experiment, and there's been a lot of experiments that have 216 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:26.629 kind of verified this idea. So if you could just show your face and 217 00:15:26.669 --> 00:15:33.070 get fifteen to twenty percent higher cooperation with a prospect or customer, that's a 218 00:15:33.190 --> 00:15:35.299 slam duck. Why not? Right? It's a simple thing that gives you 219 00:15:35.860 --> 00:15:39.940 a little bit of an edge and that fifteen to twenty percent maybe all you 220 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:43.419 need. So what I tell people is, you know, put your face 221 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:48.299 everywhere. Put your face on your website, put it in your signature line 222 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.570 and your email. You know, if you have like little mail or cards, 223 00:15:50.610 --> 00:15:54.690 put a face on that. You know, we all look at social 224 00:15:54.769 --> 00:15:56.409 media. We look at facebook. While do we look at it? Do 225 00:15:56.529 --> 00:16:00.169 we read stuff? Now we look for the pictures of the people and what 226 00:16:00.289 --> 00:16:03.919 that we know we're attracted to those faces. So wherever you can put your 227 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:07.759 face out there, and that's what I really love about bombomb what you guys 228 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:14.480 are doing, because it's really encapsulating this and it's it's make it easier for 229 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:18.039 people to show their faces and to tell their story. And in the very 230 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.830 beginning, when you're building a relationship, you want to have every advantage you 231 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:25.389 can to set the bit to get people to have that initial trust belief, 232 00:16:25.830 --> 00:16:27.629 and the more you do that, the more you get on the right path. 233 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:32.830 Now, at the end of the day, you have to still act 234 00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:36.740 and a trustworthy fashion. Right, ability of benevolence and integrity are all very 235 00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:40.620 important. If you if you yourself or you work with your company who is 236 00:16:40.659 --> 00:16:45.340 incompetent or there you know their cheaters or whatever, the truth comes out and 237 00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:48.129 people will learn their lesson. They'll give you the benefit of the doubt, 238 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:51.809 but in time you know they're going to they're going to wake up to the 239 00:16:51.889 --> 00:16:53.850 way that you are. So you had. Obviously the way you look has 240 00:16:53.929 --> 00:16:57.169 to match your actions. At the end of the day, that's what's ultimately 241 00:16:57.250 --> 00:17:03.159 important. But getting that initial nudge, getting that initial direction forward, getting 242 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.480 you that that appointment that you're seeking with that new prospect, all of these 243 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.000 little things add up and that put you in a position to be successful. 244 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:15.829 It's excellent integrity. My language on integrity is consistency and word. Indeed, 245 00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:18.349 you know, are you going to do the things that you promise, whether 246 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:21.910 those our promises on your website or promises on the phone, or promises that 247 00:17:21.950 --> 00:17:25.710 you can actually get customer support when you need it, etcetera. So these 248 00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:29.869 things really add upability, benevolence and integrity. There are a lot of ways 249 00:17:29.950 --> 00:17:33.220 to do it, but ultimately the experience should be at some points human, 250 00:17:33.660 --> 00:17:37.940 and I think at you shared a lot of really great recommendations in great research 251 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:44.650 on the importance of this human aspect, which is trust based and obviously deeply 252 00:17:44.730 --> 00:17:48.009 embedded in our in our psyches. Or anything you want to wrap on, 253 00:17:48.529 --> 00:17:49.930 to wrap up with here, anything you want to share with folks that we 254 00:17:51.049 --> 00:17:53.410 maybe didn't touch on? No, I think that's it and I really I 255 00:17:55.170 --> 00:17:57.089 appreciate you going down this path even because, you know, a lot of 256 00:17:57.170 --> 00:18:02.920 times we get we get wrapped around the axcel on metrics and processes and deliverables 257 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.720 and contracts and, you know, we do lose sight of this human this 258 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.839 human nature, and business is all about people. It's all about the how 259 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.269 do we experience each other? How do we learn and grow and learn to 260 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:17.710 trust each other and do business and hopefully do business again? You know, 261 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:21.509 that's that is a human process and we need to pay very close attention to 262 00:18:21.630 --> 00:18:25.630 that. So I would just recommend to your listeners to give it a try, 263 00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:27.779 you know, take a run at it. When I since I've been 264 00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:30.180 talking about this, people have come back and said, you know, I 265 00:18:30.259 --> 00:18:33.660 gave that a go. It's on scientific but man, it just feels different. 266 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.980 Customers seem to respond a little bit better. So I would say give 267 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:40.940 it a go. That's excellent. Thank you. A if someone wants to 268 00:18:41.019 --> 00:18:44.170 connect with you, ed and build some no like and trust with you, 269 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:47.930 what are some of the easiest ways for anyone to connect with you? Well, 270 00:18:47.970 --> 00:18:49.769 I'm available on Linkedin. I connect to people all the time. I 271 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:56.359 said. Now a little you know, stories about those little snippets and in 272 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.519 the middle of writing a book, so hopefully when I do that I'll let 273 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.319 you know one that's available and and that but definitely linkedin. Is a good 274 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.680 way to connect great ed powers. Thank you so much for your time today 275 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.990 on the customer experience podcast. I will definitely have you back when you're able 276 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:15.069 to button down that book, because there are a lot of topics I'd love 277 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:18.230 to talk with you about that we didn't even get to touch on today. 278 00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:22.549 So I appreciate your time so much and have a great rest of your week. 279 00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:26.940 Thanks. He's going to appreciate it. There's a lot of fun again. 280 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:32.140 Ed was my first guest ever and this is the most downloaded conversation on 281 00:19:32.259 --> 00:19:37.380 the customer experience podcast. If you want more conversations with sales executives, marketing 282 00:19:37.569 --> 00:19:45.170 executives, customer success executives, branding experts, customer experience experts and more, 283 00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:52.160 check out the customer experience podcast in Apple podcasts, Google podcast, spotify or 284 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:59.480 wherever you prefer to listen. Learn more by visiting bombombcom slash podcast. My 285 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.880 name is Ethan Butte. Thank you again so much for listening to the B 286 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:10.670 tob growth show. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask their listeners for reviews, 287 00:20:10.910 --> 00:20:14.390 but I get why they do it, because reviews are enormously helpful when 288 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:17.430 you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what we decided to do. 289 00:20:17.869 --> 00:20:19.950 If you leave a review for me to be growth and apple podcasts and 290 00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:25.779 email me a screenshot of the review to James At sweetfish Mediacom, I'll send 291 00:20:25.819 --> 00:20:29.220 you a signed copy of my new book, content based networking, how to 292 00:20:29.299 --> 00:20:32.420 instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get a review, you 293 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:33.539 get a free book. We both win.