Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:10.189 Digital, virtual, contactless or contact free, no matter how you describe it, 2 00:00:10.310 --> 00:00:15.470 no matter what business you're in, your customer experiences more physically handsoff today 3 00:00:15.949 --> 00:00:18.230 than it was at the start of two thousand and twenty, and it's going 4 00:00:18.269 --> 00:00:22.179 to stay that way for the foreseeable future. So today we're talking about how 5 00:00:22.219 --> 00:00:28.940 to create exceptional online experiences that drive customer engagement and produce results, and we're 6 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:33.939 doing it with a gentleman who researches and designs human computer interactions and who's focused 7 00:00:33.979 --> 00:00:40.009 on customer experience, user experience and learning experience. He spent years inside companies 8 00:00:40.090 --> 00:00:45.210 like Hewlett Packard, adulant technologies and Deluxe Corporation. He's currently a speaker, 9 00:00:45.250 --> 00:00:50.759 author, researcher and presenter with the Human Computer Mastermind Academy at it's the USERSCOM. 10 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:56.439 He also serves as principal user experience researcher with answer lab and is leading 11 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.560 in depth research for Google, Amazon, Cisco and other world class companies. 12 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:06.109 Bob Berry, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thanks you thing. Glad 13 00:01:06.109 --> 00:01:07.349 to be here. Looking forward to this. Yeah, me too. We 14 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:11.950 haven't done I'm hoping we get maybe a little bit technical or we really operate 15 00:01:12.030 --> 00:01:17.430 at that human machine intersection point. It comes up thematically, but certainly not 16 00:01:17.629 --> 00:01:21.659 with the depth of exposure and knowledge that you have to that. But before 17 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:25.299 we get going, in earnest answer, lab is based in San Francisco, 18 00:01:25.379 --> 00:01:29.099 but you're here with me, not physically, but you're here with me on 19 00:01:29.140 --> 00:01:34.010 zoom in Colorado Springs and you've been here for years. So how did you 20 00:01:34.049 --> 00:01:37.569 land here and what do you love about being here? Well, I actually 21 00:01:37.569 --> 00:01:40.650 grew up in Colorado. I'm not originally from Colorado, but I've spend the 22 00:01:40.730 --> 00:01:44.489 majority of my life here. So, as you mentioned, I worked for 23 00:01:44.530 --> 00:01:49.040 Lett Packard and you know the asual and still has that facility out on gardener 24 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.840 the God's road. So that's the thing. I work there for fifteen years, 25 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:55.319 back in the days when Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard were still alive. 26 00:01:55.480 --> 00:02:00.840 So I've always enjoyed Colorado. Love the outdoor life, love the business opportunities 27 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:05.269 here. So colorail springs and the front rangement home for most of my years 28 00:02:05.870 --> 00:02:08.189 awesome. And it is a much different town than it was even before I 29 00:02:08.389 --> 00:02:13.389 arrived, which was about thirteen years ago. So I can't imagine the amount 30 00:02:13.389 --> 00:02:15.939 of change you've seen here locally. Yeah, it has changed a lot. 31 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:21.939 Fortunately, a lot of the beautiful mountain areas and wilderness and everything that's west 32 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:24.259 of here hasn't changed that much. So we still get a chance to get 33 00:02:24.259 --> 00:02:30.569 away, and especially these days when we're looking for opportunities for extreme social distancing 34 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:34.849 that you know, those those places are still available to us. Absolutely as 35 00:02:35.009 --> 00:02:38.009 fortune to be able to get out with my son a couple times last week 36 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:42.370 and it's awesome. I love how close everything is to Colorado Springs with regard 37 00:02:42.490 --> 00:02:47.000 to wilderness, outdoors, etc. So you do a lot of work with 38 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:53.680 experience. So we'll start with your definition or your thoughts or characteristics of customer 39 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:57.199 experience, in particular. When I say customer experience, what does that mean? 40 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:01.469 Do you Bob? So I interpret that pretty broadly. So I interpret 41 00:03:01.550 --> 00:03:08.270 customer experience is virtually any contact that you have with any individuals, humans, 42 00:03:08.430 --> 00:03:15.340 prospects, customers, users that may interact with your business. And you know, 43 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:19.819 we tend to think of this whole concept of Omni Channel, which is 44 00:03:20.259 --> 00:03:24.539 really looking holistically at all of the ways that you might interact with or touch 45 00:03:24.580 --> 00:03:29.610 a customer. That certainly could include many different ways online, but it can 46 00:03:29.650 --> 00:03:36.009 also include phone, it can include facetoface contact. That can include printed materials, 47 00:03:36.330 --> 00:03:43.560 pr it doesn't really leave anything out when it comes to your interactions and 48 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:49.800 how you might make offers to, or serve or support customers at any point 49 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:53.879 through the product or customer life cycle. Great definition covers a lot of the 50 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.349 themes that we talk about here. In particular, the one that you really 51 00:03:58.389 --> 00:04:01.509 hit in a variety of different ways is that it's every single touch point, 52 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:06.189 human, analog, digital, etc. And it's so important that. So 53 00:04:06.310 --> 00:04:09.909 that's the reason we host this show is to is to talk about how, 54 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:14.580 if so many people, different people inside your organization, are involved in creating 55 00:04:14.620 --> 00:04:17.500 and delivering these various aspects of the experience, how do we do it in 56 00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:23.100 a way that's intentional and aligned? And so you also are a user experience 57 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:27.569 expert. You've done a lot of work and learning experience talk about these other 58 00:04:27.730 --> 00:04:33.250 experiences and maybe where they intersect with or diverge from customer experience. So I 59 00:04:33.490 --> 00:04:40.560 guess it's difficult to come up with a lot of really comprehensive definitions because this 60 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:44.920 can vary a lot from one type of business to another, from one type 61 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:49.680 of customer to another. One type of system or interactive platform or interface to 62 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:56.629 another. But in general user experience tends to go deeper. It probably does 63 00:04:56.790 --> 00:05:00.750 not cover as many of those touch points that we discussed when we were defining 64 00:05:01.269 --> 00:05:05.550 customer experience. So, for example, it may not cover as much around 65 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:11.180 what might you what you might consider customer service or support, although there may 66 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:15.980 be elements of that as well. The user experience really talks a lot more 67 00:05:15.100 --> 00:05:20.850 about the the fine points, in the particulars of how a human being interacts 68 00:05:20.889 --> 00:05:28.209 with some kind of interactive system or platform or APP or website or device, 69 00:05:29.250 --> 00:05:33.290 and that back human computer interaction, that HCI that we often refer to. 70 00:05:34.290 --> 00:05:39.480 There's a lot of science that goes into creating those types of interactions and a 71 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:45.680 lot of science that goes into evaluating and optimizing those interactions. We work on 72 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:51.230 a basic premise that all business results, and it challenge anyone to think of 73 00:05:51.430 --> 00:05:59.750 one that doesn't fall within this definition. All business results are individuals making specific 74 00:05:59.870 --> 00:06:05.540 choices within the user experiences we provide them and in a sense the user experience 75 00:06:05.699 --> 00:06:11.939 then drives all business results and actually drives the world economy because all of those 76 00:06:11.980 --> 00:06:19.290 individual decisions and reactions and choices and responses from users or customers add up to 77 00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:24.850 all the business outcomes that we can imagine and therefore what drives the world world 78 00:06:24.850 --> 00:06:30.089 economy. So experience and how somebody interacts with those virtual interfaces is really at 79 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:33.600 the center of so much of what we're trying to do and ways that we're 80 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:40.040 trying to serve and influence our customers in our prospects. Do you separate at 81 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.920 all or are they all bundled together? And if you do separate them, 82 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:49.790 is there any hierarchy with regard to the human feelings or thoughts or behaviors? 83 00:06:49.870 --> 00:06:55.470 Do you separate those elements? Do you study them independently, and what is 84 00:06:55.550 --> 00:06:59.269 the relationship between those? Yeah, I'm glad you ask that. So in 85 00:06:59.389 --> 00:07:02.300 user experience research, and there's certainly elements of this, and customer experience as 86 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:08.620 well, and user experience research, we really create a context around that virtual 87 00:07:08.740 --> 00:07:14.620 interaction, around those human computer interactions, and that context is really understanding the 88 00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:19.529 individual, understanding their narrative. So we talk about things like ethnographies, we 89 00:07:19.649 --> 00:07:26.490 talk about journeys, we talk about personas, and that really all that out 90 00:07:26.649 --> 00:07:31.160 happens before we actually get into those virtual interactions. We want to understand these 91 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:36.040 individuals, their lives, whether it's a business or a personal context. What 92 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:42.439 motivates them? What are their needs? What kind of outcomes are they looking 93 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:47.350 for? What is their level of technical capability? How savvy are they about 94 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:51.430 technology? What's their economic status? So there's a whole lot of things we 95 00:07:51.509 --> 00:07:57.670 want to learn about all those individuals. That puts that virtual interaction, that 96 00:07:57.790 --> 00:08:01.339 interface, in a much more relevant context when we try to interact with them 97 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:05.779 and serve them, to do something useful for them. So that's that context 98 00:08:05.819 --> 00:08:11.259 is really critical to understanding the experience because you can't like separate their interactive experience 99 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:15.970 with your APP or your website from the larger context of their lives and what's 100 00:08:15.970 --> 00:08:18.209 important to them and what they're trying to accomplish. Right, it's the whole 101 00:08:18.290 --> 00:08:22.810 picture, or as much of the picture as you can get, is so 102 00:08:22.889 --> 00:08:26.129 much more useful in terms of making decisions that are going to be helpful for 103 00:08:26.290 --> 00:08:30.079 them. Do you work? I'm going to go one follow up there. 104 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:35.240 You know, when we start talking about ethnographies and journeys and Personas you know, 105 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:39.799 you're obviously talking about things that sales and marketing likes to talk about. 106 00:08:41.549 --> 00:08:45.470 Have you found from an organizational standpoint, from a workflow standpoint, from a 107 00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:50.110 project development and management standpoint. Does this work? It seems like it could. 108 00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:54.029 Should would intersect very directly with with what sales and marketing is doing in 109 00:08:54.110 --> 00:08:56.539 terms of who they're bringing to the experience. Do you find that that tends 110 00:08:56.580 --> 00:09:00.460 to be the case? Absolutely, and a lot of the work that I 111 00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:03.299 do with a lot of the brands that you mentioned, with Google, facebook, 112 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:07.500 Amazon, a lot of the work we do with them is in fact 113 00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:15.289 evaluating and guiding people through the the front end experiences. How do people interact 114 00:09:15.370 --> 00:09:22.450 with those companies offerings, their marketing programs, their online catalogs, their offers, 115 00:09:22.889 --> 00:09:26.440 their social media, so the whole upfront process when they're still in the 116 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:31.720 prospect stage or they're still in the learning and discovering and shopping stage. In 117 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.759 many cases, we we in many cases may actually focus more on that then 118 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:41.309 we do the actual transaction or what happens after the transaction, because that part 119 00:09:41.309 --> 00:09:46.470 of it is so essential to those companies, in those businesses being successful and 120 00:09:46.629 --> 00:09:50.669 those users, in those customers finding what they need. You've already kind of 121 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:54.980 driven by this. I always like to ask something like this for folks who 122 00:09:54.980 --> 00:09:58.259 aren't familiar. Can you tell us a little bit about answer lab, like 123 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:01.860 who is your ideal customer? Is it these these giant, you know, 124 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:03.779 world class brands, or is it more than that? Like, who's your 125 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:09.690 ideal customer and what specifically do you solve for them? So we do a 126 00:10:09.850 --> 00:10:15.009 lot of the kind of research we've been talked about for those brands and a 127 00:10:15.090 --> 00:10:20.210 lot of major brands in high tech, in automotive, in pharmaceuticals and financial 128 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:28.240 in just about any of the major industrial categories or customer segments that you can 129 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:35.039 imagine. And these are companies that rely heavily on the the virtual platforms, 130 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.190 in the virtual tools and the virtual offerings that they provide to the market place. 131 00:10:39.269 --> 00:10:43.389 And again, that can include everything from the online catalogs that they provide, 132 00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:48.870 the shopping experiences, the social media programs that they run, all of 133 00:10:50.019 --> 00:10:56.299 the ways that they do actually actually do business with customers and transact orders, 134 00:10:56.659 --> 00:11:00.940 and then, in many cases, how they support those customers and how they 135 00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:05.970 maintain ongoing relationships with them once they become customers. And so these are these 136 00:11:05.009 --> 00:11:09.809 are companies that, for them, user experience and customer experience is not an 137 00:11:09.850 --> 00:11:15.289 event it's an ongoing process. It's built into their culture. You look at 138 00:11:15.289 --> 00:11:20.000 a company like Amazon and they've been doing this from the very beginning and the 139 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:24.320 user experience that they have is often pointed to as sort of the gold standard 140 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.600 and it's one that obviously has served them very well. And if you look 141 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.470 at the recent performance and everything that's happened over the last few months and how 142 00:11:33.590 --> 00:11:37.389 successful they've been in providing all of the products that we don't go out and 143 00:11:37.509 --> 00:11:43.990 shop for anymore, clearly they have an interface that billions of people are familiar 144 00:11:45.110 --> 00:11:48.299 with and comfortable with and use on a regular basis and has really become a 145 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:54.019 critical part of the world we live in today. So we help them optimize 146 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:58.059 those experiences so people at all levels can make sense out of those, can 147 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.649 get what they need and can be successful and getting the products and services that 148 00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:07.330 are required for them to be to be successful. Awesome. It's a great 149 00:12:07.330 --> 00:12:11.370 example and I think almost all of us listening should be able to relate to 150 00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:13.730 that one. For me, I think the most dangerous thing they've done is 151 00:12:13.809 --> 00:12:18.080 the buy now button. Particularly in mobile. It's just so easy to hit 152 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.279 it on purpose or at accident, like here we go it's shoes, just 153 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.080 that easy. So before we go one step further, and you were right 154 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:31.830 there into you know how things are changing maybe for some other businesses. You 155 00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:33.509 know the Amazon had this built in from day one, but other people are 156 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:39.149 need to figure out how do we turn maybe the physical into the virtual or 157 00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:43.620 the you know, things where we might hand off physically to contactless operations, 158 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:50.740 and getting into that, what part of the organization are you typically plugging into 159 00:12:50.259 --> 00:12:54.179 when you come into do this type of research? What I'm thinking about now 160 00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:56.779 is a listener who might be saying, Gosh, I don't know that I 161 00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:01.529 can hire answer lab because we're a much, much smaller organization and we don't 162 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:05.210 have a figured out yet and we don't even know what research questions to ask. 163 00:13:05.769 --> 00:13:09.409 But we should be doing this type of work, whether we do it 164 00:13:09.450 --> 00:13:13.480 internally or we hire it out. Where do usually plug into the organization? 165 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.919 We plug into a lot of different places and actually I'm led you ask the 166 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.720 question about the smaller organization. So in addition to answer lab, as you 167 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:26.360 mentioned at the beginning, I also run this operation called it's the USERSCOM, 168 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:31.750 which is the human computer mastermind academy. The mission there is to help smaller 169 00:13:31.870 --> 00:13:37.070 companies, entrepreneurs, professionals get introduced to this world of understanding their users, 170 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:41.379 really understanding the context and the narrative and figuring out how to create the right 171 00:13:41.419 --> 00:13:46.019 kinds of experiences that are going to help their businesses succeed and also help their 172 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:48.820 customers, in their end users, succeed. And so we do a lot 173 00:13:48.860 --> 00:13:52.500 of stuff for free. We do a lot of stuff the very low cost. 174 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:56.730 That's a whole different scale economically than what a lot of those big brands 175 00:13:56.769 --> 00:14:00.289 do. So we provide that as well. About to answer your question about 176 00:14:00.289 --> 00:14:03.490 where do you plug in in? You used to be that the user experience, 177 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:09.129 customer experience with sort of a side operation. You know, it might 178 00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:13.279 be up attached somewhere in marketing and might be attached somewhere in the IT Department 179 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:20.440 or some cases it might be even part of the sales operation. Right now, 180 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:24.909 in many of these companies it's deeply embedded in the culture and from top 181 00:14:26.029 --> 00:14:31.110 leadership on down, the boards of directors, the CEOS, the CEIOS, 182 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:35.590 they all pay very close attention to this and the amount of funding that they 183 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.019 provide is pretty substantial to continue these this type of research, in this type 184 00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:45.620 kind of optimization ongoing. So in many cases we may be talking to organizations 185 00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:50.179 that are running, you know, the large marketing programs that are trying to 186 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:56.649 promote and merchandise products and try to influence customers and transact business online or offline 187 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:03.210 as well. We may also plug into the parts of the organization that are 188 00:15:03.250 --> 00:15:09.480 specifically responsible for Web and e commerce and virtual platforms. You know, some 189 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.200 companies are all about virtual their whole operation, their whole mission is based on 190 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:20.159 interactive virtual platforms, and so we may plug into various parts of the organization 191 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.909 depending on, you know, what aspect of promotion and outbound or inbound marketing. 192 00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:28.629 You know, they probably have a social media team, they probably have 193 00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:33.590 a content development team, they probably have online catalogs that they're working with product 194 00:15:33.629 --> 00:15:39.980 merchandising. So all of these are areas that that we might singularly plug in 195 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:43.500 or we might plug into multiple aspects of those as well. But in many 196 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:48.139 cases a lot of this is recognized and funded and tracked very closely from the 197 00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:52.330 top of the organization in the more successful companies. It's fantastic and I am 198 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:54.850 going to go out on limb. I'm sure you'll go out there with me, 199 00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.929 if you have to, and say these are the companies that are built 200 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:03.409 to last, people that have that embedded in the culture. So let's it. 201 00:16:03.490 --> 00:16:07.759 Let's get really specific to all the changes that were forced upon basically every 202 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.720 business that exists for the most part, and of course, some more than 203 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:18.789 others, because some relied so much more heavily on physical contact and physical interaction, 204 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.629 human to human interaction, not just via zoom or via phone or whatever, 205 00:16:22.669 --> 00:16:29.070 but actual human to human interactions. At the risk of stating the obvious, 206 00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:32.710 can use start at the beginning and maybe talk about the transformations that you've 207 00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:37.419 been seeing, or maybe the accelerated rates of trance of transformation that you're seeing 208 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:41.620 in reaction to the pandemic. Well, they the big driver, of course, 209 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:48.850 is the need to go contactless. So there are still tremendous amount of 210 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:55.250 conflicting science out there about exactly how this virus is transmitted and in the last 211 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:59.850 few weeks in many parts of the country the numbers of new cases has gone 212 00:16:59.850 --> 00:17:04.240 up dramatically. Yet we still don't really understand how this was transmitted. You 213 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.000 know, my wife and I have five kids that are scattered throughout the west 214 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:14.279 and we're debating going on a road trip in a few weeks to go visit 215 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:19.670 them. But we really it's an ongoing research and discussion process about is this 216 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:23.390 really feasible and what are the risks that we're taking and what are the things 217 00:17:23.430 --> 00:17:26.950 we should do and shouldn't do? On any given day, if you follow 218 00:17:27.029 --> 00:17:32.819 the news, you get conflicting stories and data and science and recommendations. So 219 00:17:33.500 --> 00:17:38.299 it's about contactless and in so many ways not just businesses but organizations of all 220 00:17:38.420 --> 00:17:45.369 types have been forced to figure out how to do what they do without doing 221 00:17:45.450 --> 00:17:49.329 any physical contact or minimizing physical contact. You know, I gradle off a 222 00:17:49.369 --> 00:17:55.650 number of examples just all the companies and businesses, operations and their employees that 223 00:17:55.730 --> 00:17:59.839 have simply gone home to work, that have gone remote. And so here 224 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:03.680 we are on zoom and the use of zoom is exploded. So telework in 225 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.920 and of itself has been a major transformation. Some of that's not going to 226 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.319 go back. It's going to stay where people are going to continue to do 227 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:15.150 that. You look at education at all levels, from preschool all the way 228 00:18:15.190 --> 00:18:21.829 up to postgraduate in college, it's completely changed and honestly, we haven't figured 229 00:18:21.869 --> 00:18:23.750 that out. If you look the jury still out on how to make that 230 00:18:23.910 --> 00:18:30.140 work and with everybody pulling students out of classes at all levels back in March 231 00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:34.779 and then trying to cope from March until now, I think the general consisus 232 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:37.980 is we failed, we didn't we haven't figured it out. We have a 233 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:41.569 long way to go. Health and medicine is changed dramatically. So I'm trying 234 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:45.970 to catch up on some of my doctor's appointments that I've been procrastinating on the 235 00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:48.490 last few months, and a lot of these now we're doing virtually. We're 236 00:18:48.490 --> 00:18:53.490 doing through zoom meeting, we're doing through, you know, sharing records online, 237 00:18:53.529 --> 00:18:56.759 scheduling things and trying to do as much as possible. You know. 238 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:02.039 So pull examples in small businesses, the restaurants that are allowing you to order 239 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.799 online and pick up at the curb. You know, there's another example here 240 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:11.950 in Colorado Springs up a construction company that has gone totally video, where they 241 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:17.309 will show you how to do video with your phone of the space in your 242 00:19:17.349 --> 00:19:19.630 home that you want to have remodeled and you send them the video, they'll 243 00:19:19.630 --> 00:19:23.460 come back to you with simulations of what that space would look like with new 244 00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:27.140 materials, with a redesign. Then they'll come back and they'll show you a 245 00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:30.980 simulation of how they're actually going to come in and do the work and how 246 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:34.700 they're going to maintain social distance. And I've heard other examples of tailors that 247 00:19:34.819 --> 00:19:40.650 have figured out how to do measurements using APPS and how to measure your body 248 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:45.569 and send them your body measurements for a new suit without having any we could 249 00:19:45.609 --> 00:19:48.890 go on and on and on about all these examples of all the ways that 250 00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:52.119 we're figuring out how to do this. So it's some it's pervasive, a 251 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.279 lot of it is very creative and you know, as they say, necessity 252 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.359 is the mother of invention and there's a lot of new stuff being invented. 253 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.799 Yeah, I love it in some some of these examples, for example the 254 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.190 one about the tailor you were use the APP and it takes your measurements and 255 00:20:07.230 --> 00:20:11.269 get a custom cut suit for like five or six hundred bucks. That's one 256 00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:15.670 of those where the idea, it's an idea whose time has come. And 257 00:20:15.789 --> 00:20:18.309 then there's this other camp where it's we've been doing this for a long time, 258 00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:22.259 successfully or unsuccessfully. How do we adapt? And I think that's the 259 00:20:22.339 --> 00:20:25.259 that's the majority of a lot of them and you know to your point, 260 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:27.779 I mean we've added a couple trips to Arizona. We have family down there 261 00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:33.420 and my son is looking at a couple schools in Arizona. We've canceled two 262 00:20:33.460 --> 00:20:37.529 of those trips. So I can imagine your thoughts around is this, is 263 00:20:37.609 --> 00:20:41.369 this good or not? In the science is very, very challenging. It's 264 00:20:41.369 --> 00:20:45.569 also a lot of it is politicized, which makes it more confusing and there's 265 00:20:45.569 --> 00:20:48.769 a great deal of challenge here for you know. I know that you're talking 266 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.400 with a lot of folks, you're doing a lot of presentations and engagements like 267 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.480 this one we're enjoying right now. What are a couple things that people have 268 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:03.519 have found surprising or lowhanging fruit or missed opportunities? What are some things that 269 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:10.109 you're seeing that might be practical from a takeaway standpoint for someone listening to improve 270 00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:14.630 what they're doing? For example, specific to your touchless I just released an 271 00:21:14.670 --> 00:21:17.789 episode, by the time this releases, will have released a week or two 272 00:21:17.829 --> 00:21:21.940 before, with a gentleman who works at a company. Michael Ashford works this 273 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:26.859 company called the receptionist. They're based up in Denver coincidentally, and they provide 274 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:30.220 those ipads where people can punch in and then it alerts the person you're coming 275 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:33.890 to visit at the office, you know, and all of this. And 276 00:21:33.450 --> 00:21:38.329 just to remove the idea that someone has to touch an IPAD, they're adapting 277 00:21:38.410 --> 00:21:41.009 it so that it talks to your mobile device, so you can check in 278 00:21:41.130 --> 00:21:45.250 on your own phone via this this, you know, the rest of this 279 00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:48.480 infrastructure. And so anyway, I would assume that you're hearing a lot of 280 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:53.640 star stories like that. Is there anything surprising or easy see or challenging in 281 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.400 particular, that that's been interesting to you or helpful to others? Well, 282 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.990 one of the things that we've done, and answer lab, which is very 283 00:22:02.029 --> 00:22:04.670 important in in and we have worked with a lot of our customers and clients 284 00:22:04.710 --> 00:22:10.109 on this too, is the probably the first priority is to make sure that 285 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:17.859 you're being safe. So whatever whatever new direction you're going or however you're running 286 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:21.140 your option operation, make sure that, based on the best knowledge we have 287 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:26.180 available today, make sure that you're taking care of yourself, your family, 288 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:30.890 your employees, your customers, your clients. So as much as possible, 289 00:22:32.250 --> 00:22:37.650 minimize that physical contact and try to find creative ways to deal and in a 290 00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:40.849 lot of the examples we've been talking about. Companies of all sizes, of 291 00:22:40.970 --> 00:22:44.089 course, are doing this. They're figuring out how to and even in the 292 00:22:44.289 --> 00:22:48.799 in the example you just mentioned with the IPAD, even just physically touching something 293 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.720 could be risky. So now let's use voice, and certainly the voice technology 294 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:56.039 has come far enough that we can do that today. So look at the 295 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.109 technologies that are available, look at where you might be at risk or where 296 00:23:00.150 --> 00:23:03.509 you might be putting other people at risk and, first of all, figured 297 00:23:03.509 --> 00:23:08.589 out how to maintain that safety in that distance and minimize or eliminate those points 298 00:23:08.630 --> 00:23:12.980 of context so that you're not spreading the virus first of all. Next, 299 00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:18.940 it's probably important to really look carefully at where your customers are headed. One 300 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:22.380 of the things that we're also book missing a lot on is customer data. 301 00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:27.569 So in all of the marketing that we do, certainly in many aspects of 302 00:23:27.650 --> 00:23:34.329 customer experience and User Experience, we've learned a lot about our customers and as 303 00:23:34.410 --> 00:23:41.170 well as our prospects and and the our ability to manage these data sets and 304 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.119 optimize what we offer people and when we offer it and all the things that 305 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.319 we do before and after the sale is based on these massive data sets that 306 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.200 we've collected about our customers. Well, some of that data, maybe a 307 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.789 lot of that data, may now be suspect because people are losing their jobs, 308 00:23:57.710 --> 00:24:02.029 people are now working at home, so they may no longer be using 309 00:24:02.509 --> 00:24:04.869 the, you know, the same email systems that they did before, the 310 00:24:04.910 --> 00:24:11.140 same phone numbers that they did before. People may be changing jobs, customers 311 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:15.339 may be pivoting, they may be shifting their budgets or scaling back those all 312 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:22.579 this transformation going on that's going to render some, some portion of your customer 313 00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:26.250 data, your customer knowledge, obsolete, and so one of the things you 314 00:24:26.289 --> 00:24:30.410 have to start right now to do is really start to understand how you're going 315 00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:33.450 to rebuild that knowledge, because if you lose track of those customers and who 316 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:37.690 they are and what their need, that's going to create additional risk way. 317 00:24:37.769 --> 00:24:42.400 So that's a really important one. Another short term, really important aspect of 318 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.680 this is really to understand, you know, as I mentioned earlier, all 319 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.960 business outcomes are those individual choices that people make within the experiences we provide them. 320 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.750 So it's really important to understand what those choices are, what represents a 321 00:24:57.230 --> 00:25:03.990 specific outcome that your customers have to achieve that's going to have them be successful. 322 00:25:03.750 --> 00:25:07.619 And what outcomes do you need to achieve as a business for you to 323 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:12.259 be successful? You need to very clearly articulate those and then begin to understand 324 00:25:12.259 --> 00:25:17.220 whether they're diverging or they're converging. You know, as I've used this metaphor 325 00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:22.170 before about Wayne Gretzky, made the point about his some of his success, 326 00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:25.569 or a lot of his success, was based on skating to where the puck 327 00:25:25.730 --> 00:25:27.529 was going to be stead of where the puck is or where it's been. 328 00:25:29.210 --> 00:25:32.369 So try to figure out three months, six months, a year out, 329 00:25:32.529 --> 00:25:34.799 and that's going to be difficult, but try to figure out where the PUCK 330 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.799 is going to be and decide whether you're skating in the right are you going 331 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:42.640 to be there when the puck gets there or will hit it have already passed? 332 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:47.680 So you got to understand those points of success, those those outcomes and 333 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:51.069 begin to anticipate what that future looks like and what kind of data you're going 334 00:25:51.109 --> 00:25:53.670 to need and then how you're going to make all of that happen in environment 335 00:25:53.670 --> 00:26:00.869 where you're keeping everybody safe. Three fantastic caution sensitivity areas. I and of 336 00:26:00.910 --> 00:26:04.140 course, I really like where you left there with the with the Gretzky quote, 337 00:26:04.339 --> 00:26:07.380 because there is so much changing, just like there is in a live 338 00:26:07.700 --> 00:26:11.779 fast action you know, best players in the world hockey game. There's a 339 00:26:11.859 --> 00:26:15.819 lot that's moving really, really quickly. You know, with regard to your 340 00:26:15.859 --> 00:26:21.130 own business, your own team members, your customers, their actual needs, 341 00:26:21.210 --> 00:26:23.089 the solution that you provide or the way that you provide a has to change. 342 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:26.210 It's been thematic, of course, throughout the conversation so far. I 343 00:26:26.289 --> 00:26:32.450 want to double back really quickly, Bob, to have this problem of asking 344 00:26:32.450 --> 00:26:36.720 multiple questions all the same time. So I have partly held myself back there. 345 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.200 But you know, this is something that I see in in conversations on 346 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:45.079 linked in in that type of thing, which is from your perspective. Is, 347 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.029 you know, the way we're talking about customer experience today or the way 348 00:26:48.069 --> 00:26:53.789 that we're talking about user experience? Is this just new language or return to 349 00:26:53.829 --> 00:26:57.549 language for things that we've always worked on and focused on? Is there actually 350 00:26:57.549 --> 00:27:02.779 anything new here? What's changed? What stayed the same maybe over the past 351 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:07.779 twenty years or so in these areas? So there, yeah, they're glad 352 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.099 you asked that's a really good question. So there have been a number of 353 00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:14.259 major changes that have happened. Certainly the shift to mobile has been a big 354 00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:17.690 one. So back in the day, when I first started doing this, 355 00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:23.450 when I worked with Hewlett Packard, you know, we did everything on desktop 356 00:27:23.490 --> 00:27:30.920 computer using windows explorer browser, and ninety five percent of the world that was 357 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.640 what they used. Since so you could just test that. The world is 358 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.440 much different now. So there are so many different devices out there, so 359 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:47.670 many different APPS, different operating systems, and so it's really important that mobile 360 00:27:47.869 --> 00:27:51.269 be first, you know, and that's really what our focus is on, 361 00:27:51.349 --> 00:27:56.950 especially now that a lot of people have moved away from their work desktop and 362 00:27:56.029 --> 00:28:00.539 they're relying more and more on mobile. Even though they're not as mobile, 363 00:28:00.819 --> 00:28:04.539 they're actually relying more and more on mobile devices to do what they need to 364 00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:10.779 do. So mobile is the is the one of the big transformations. The 365 00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:14.769 other thing that we're starting to see is a lot more intelligence in interactive systems, 366 00:28:15.049 --> 00:28:21.410 so augmented reality, virtual reality intelligence systems, the ability for these interfaces 367 00:28:21.490 --> 00:28:25.369 to begin to learn who we are at anticipate who we are. Those are 368 00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:29.079 going to be a those are going to take a much larger role now in 369 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.200 the ways that we're going to be able to stay contactless. So you know, 370 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.319 driverless cars and trucks are obviously coming. You know, the any of 371 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:44.150 these examples that we've named, like, for example, the tailor example. 372 00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:48.910 You know, in order to be able to measure body dimensions and translate those 373 00:28:48.950 --> 00:28:52.869 into something physical that actually it's on your body, there has to be some 374 00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:56.660 intelligence built into those to be able to understand how to process those algorithms. 375 00:28:56.700 --> 00:29:02.980 So those, those models, those systems, those tools are going to become 376 00:29:03.019 --> 00:29:04.500 a lot more intelligent. So that's a big deal and you're going to start 377 00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:08.660 to see more and more intelligence built in two interfaces and tools and ways of 378 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:12.849 interacting with one another and keeping things contactless. And again, all those are 379 00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:17.369 all of those are individual experiences. People are going to learn, need to 380 00:29:17.450 --> 00:29:21.890 learn how to use those, learn how to make them effective for whatever outcomes 381 00:29:21.930 --> 00:29:26.000 they're seeking, and that's going to require us to do more and more evaluation 382 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.359 of those systems to make sure they're functional, make sure people can make sense 383 00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:32.559 out of them. You know, another one that we're going to start to 384 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.200 see and which is going to be a big deal is already a big deal, 385 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.200 but it's going to become even more a big deal is data privacy. 386 00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:41.470 So you know, we hear a lot about that now, but if you 387 00:29:41.509 --> 00:29:45.309 you know, if you watch the news, there are some major issues going 388 00:29:45.430 --> 00:29:48.309 on with some of our social media platforms around data privacy. We have an 389 00:29:48.349 --> 00:29:55.019 election coming up which is going to continue to a surface significant data privacy issues. 390 00:29:55.700 --> 00:29:59.140 You know, with all of the social justice and all the protests going 391 00:29:59.259 --> 00:30:03.579 on. There's a lot of talk about police use of facial recognition. That's 392 00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:06.180 going to be a big deal. And what and the biggest one is probably 393 00:30:06.259 --> 00:30:10.890 going to be a key part of solving in the coronavirus problem is going to 394 00:30:10.970 --> 00:30:15.690 be testing, tracing and tracking. Now, smart devices and all the the 395 00:30:15.769 --> 00:30:18.690 phones we have in our pockets are not going to be the solution, but 396 00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:22.039 they're probably going to be a key part of the solution and people are going 397 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.079 to resist, especially in this country. People are going to resist mightily having 398 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:30.759 themselves tracked and their personal health tracked and made available to other people. But 399 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:34.480 are we going to be able to solve the coronavirus problem if we can't do 400 00:30:34.710 --> 00:30:37.789 that? So that's a big deal. We haven't. We're a long way 401 00:30:37.829 --> 00:30:41.190 from even really backling that, much less solving it. So those are some 402 00:30:41.230 --> 00:30:45.710 of the major things going on right now and in some of these work just 403 00:30:45.829 --> 00:30:48.349 on the front end of them. Really good observations, a lot of big 404 00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:52.019 ideas there. For folks who are listening, I recommend that bounce back button 405 00:30:52.099 --> 00:30:55.900 on my phone. It in the APP that I use. It's a sixty 406 00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:59.220 two bounce back, so maybe hit that thing twice or a lot of really 407 00:30:59.259 --> 00:31:03.180 good ideas in there. I appreciate you making that pass and it's really interesting 408 00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:07.450 that the what will we give away in terms of privacy or information personally in 409 00:31:07.569 --> 00:31:14.049 exchange for what type of value or experience or entertainment? And it just mind 410 00:31:14.130 --> 00:31:15.650 blowing to me. As you said it, I was like, yeah, 411 00:31:15.650 --> 00:31:18.599 there is going to be a lot of resistance to health data and tracking. 412 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.279 At the same time, you know, you already pointed to the vulnerabilities of 413 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.720 social networks. Like I want to see these, you know, ten second 414 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.279 video clips and I'm willing to, you know, put my personal information at 415 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.150 risk in exchange for that, but I'm not going to help track this virus 416 00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:37.750 down anyway. So much interesting stuff going on. Can you do a quick 417 00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:41.670 pass here on learning in particular? You know, I saw learning experiences as 418 00:31:41.710 --> 00:31:45.630 a lot of your background and it's just something that's really of interest to me. 419 00:31:45.710 --> 00:31:49.259 I would assume that folks who are this deep in a podcast episode are 420 00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:53.660 learners. If you listen to podcasts, you probably read books, digitally or 421 00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:59.099 physically. You're probably a tight a learner type. GIFF, any tips on 422 00:31:59.259 --> 00:32:04.130 learning, something that you've learned along the way that would help people learn more 423 00:32:04.250 --> 00:32:07.730 effectively or something like that? Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges, 424 00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:13.049 and I that I'm sure you've experienced this, one of the biggest challenges 425 00:32:13.210 --> 00:32:16.680 with with learning, especially virtual learning, now that we're doing all of this 426 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:23.000 so remotely, is the retention in the application. So and I can't tell 427 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:27.960 you that I've that I have any any secret solutions to that. I think 428 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.069 again, if we referred earlier to all the challenges going on now with trying 429 00:32:31.109 --> 00:32:36.589 to do remote learning for school at all different levels and so, I mean 430 00:32:36.630 --> 00:32:42.069 I consume a tremendous amount of information and learning, but my ability to remember 431 00:32:42.109 --> 00:32:46.019 it is one challenge and then my ability to apply it, whether it's to 432 00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:51.700 my personal life or to my career or to my professional work, is a 433 00:32:51.740 --> 00:32:55.740 whole another challenge. So I think that you know and I have done quite 434 00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:59.049 a bit of e learning in the past. In fact, a years ago 435 00:32:59.049 --> 00:33:04.450 I did a start up where we developed a lot of learning tools and evaluation 436 00:33:04.569 --> 00:33:08.769 tools to help young people prepare for life and and some of the things that 437 00:33:08.890 --> 00:33:14.079 we were able to accomplish there to kind of make a dent in this retention 438 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:22.799 and application challenge is is really making things very personal is really trying to make 439 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:30.910 the tools adaptable to a particular individuals life and context, learning style and and 440 00:33:30.150 --> 00:33:35.670 current level of knowledge and confidence. So knowledge and confidence are two very important 441 00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:40.150 vectors on that and the more adaptable and personalized you can make that learning to 442 00:33:40.309 --> 00:33:44.900 the individual, the more they're going to pay attention to it and then the 443 00:33:45.019 --> 00:33:47.660 more relevant it's going to be for them in their lives and therefore their ability 444 00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:52.299 to apply it in useful ways is going to be more important. And again 445 00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:54.140 that's where some of this intelligence is going to come in. So some of 446 00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:58.289 the early tools that we were able to develop, and there's more of this 447 00:33:58.410 --> 00:34:00.769 going on now, like a lot more of this where you can assess an 448 00:34:00.809 --> 00:34:06.609 individual ahead of time and actually adapt the learning content, the learning delivery, 449 00:34:07.009 --> 00:34:13.199 the media types, the speed, the depth, everything to that individual so 450 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:16.079 one size fits all doesn't fit in most cases. We need to find ways 451 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:21.559 again at all levels of learning. Also, learning is to be experiential and 452 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:23.989 I think that's one of the biggest failings of what's happened over the last few 453 00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:29.670 months is, you know, that classroom experience, interacting with other students, 454 00:34:30.269 --> 00:34:35.710 interacting with the instructor, all the other enriching activities that happen in a school. 455 00:34:35.829 --> 00:34:37.780 They'll serve. For example, one of my sons is in college and 456 00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:44.099 he's premed and he's at the lab stage of his premed studies where he's got 457 00:34:44.179 --> 00:34:46.900 to lay hands on a lot of things in a laboratory. Well, now 458 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:52.090 he can't do that and you simply can't simulate that by watching videos online. 459 00:34:52.130 --> 00:34:58.730 It's just not going to happen. So so I think removing that experiential aspect 460 00:34:58.769 --> 00:35:04.210 and that interpersonal aspect of our education in response to coronavirus has been a real 461 00:35:04.250 --> 00:35:06.929 risk and honestly I'm not sure how we replace that. I think there's a 462 00:35:06.929 --> 00:35:08.760 lot of ways we're going to have to continue to work on that to make 463 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.039 that work better, really, really good it. I was recently able to 464 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:19.440 go to the dentist and and the dental hygienist apologize to me for having to 465 00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.510 pause for a moment because she had to put a gown over her gown. 466 00:35:22.389 --> 00:35:27.630 She had to put a whole plastic sheeting over her already. You know, 467 00:35:28.070 --> 00:35:30.909 mask the face, mask, all these other things, and it's I just 468 00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:35.150 think about a med school student and what's required there, and you're right, 469 00:35:35.230 --> 00:35:37.179 it is. A lot of it is so tactile. Gosh, it's got 470 00:35:37.219 --> 00:35:39.139 to be so challenging. In to your point a, you know, we're 471 00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:43.500 in this some kind of a holding pattern until we figure it out at some 472 00:35:43.659 --> 00:35:46.460 level. What you also shared there about learning reminded me of an episode that 473 00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:51.690 we did with Pianca Jane, who is a data analytics expert, and she 474 00:35:51.730 --> 00:35:57.690 shared some ways to improve data literacy in this idea of application asap. You 475 00:35:57.809 --> 00:36:00.409 know, as soon as the learning happens that you can start applying it, 476 00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:05.599 and so we talked a bit about data personas within an organization. Of course 477 00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.840 that's not truly individualized and personalized, but it at least takes a step in 478 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:13.800 that direction to make sure that how deep does someone need to get to be 479 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:20.190 appropriately data literate for their role, and how can we make assignments and interactivity 480 00:36:20.710 --> 00:36:23.110 so that the learning is taken right away and is appropriate again to the role 481 00:36:23.230 --> 00:36:27.510 or the depth of knowledge that the person needs. If you're listening to this 482 00:36:27.590 --> 00:36:30.789 episode even enjoyed it so far with that with Bob, as I have, 483 00:36:30.309 --> 00:36:35.699 you might also like episode fifty of the customer experience podcast. That was with 484 00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:38.019 Bill Ammerman. He's the author of a great book called the invisible brand. 485 00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:43.260 In fact, porchlight books called it their marketing book of the year and we 486 00:36:43.420 --> 00:36:49.690 titled that Episode Episode Fifty, the ethics of AI customer persuasion versus customer coercion, 487 00:36:49.730 --> 00:36:52.210 and you did a pass there toward the end, Bob, about you 488 00:36:52.289 --> 00:36:57.250 know some of the tradeoffs that were making and you know what's motivating the intelligence 489 00:36:57.289 --> 00:37:01.119 behind these systems and what's motivating the way that the massive data collection we've been 490 00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:07.000 doing for years is actually applied in in an experiential way and for whose benefits. 491 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:10.239 So that was episode fifty with Bill Ammerman and episode seventy four a little 492 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:14.599 more recently with Steph called well of narrative science. Are Really Cool Company in 493 00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:19.190 Chicago and we called that using tech to scale the human touch, and we 494 00:37:19.309 --> 00:37:22.349 were at that intersection, a little bit of human and machine. And you 495 00:37:22.429 --> 00:37:25.469 know, how do we still create that personal and human experience for people in 496 00:37:25.750 --> 00:37:35.539 a scaled and partly automated and eventually artificially intelligent interactivity? And so, Bob, 497 00:37:35.619 --> 00:37:37.539 this has been great. I've really enjoyed our time together. And before 498 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:42.139 I let you go, because relationships are our number one core value at bombomb, 499 00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:45.929 I like to give you two opportunities. One to think or mention a 500 00:37:45.010 --> 00:37:47.730 person and two, to think or mentioned a company or a brand. And 501 00:37:49.010 --> 00:37:52.130 the person is someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career, 502 00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:57.650 and the brand is one that you appreciate or respect for the experience that 503 00:37:57.730 --> 00:38:00.159 they deliver for you as a customer. Well, you know, I say, 504 00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:05.000 I have to go back to my early days of my career and, 505 00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:07.280 as I mentioned, I work for Hewlett Packard, back in the days when 506 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:12.119 bill and day were still alive and I had the opportunity to meet them on 507 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:16.710 various occasions, and you know they were. They were the original Silicon Valley 508 00:38:17.630 --> 00:38:22.510 start the new business in your garage duo, and there have been so many 509 00:38:22.750 --> 00:38:25.429 duos that have done that, and they did it back in the late s 510 00:38:27.659 --> 00:38:30.460 and I think a lot of people don't realize that they were the original, 511 00:38:30.739 --> 00:38:36.539 you know, technology company founders. So their story and their values and how 512 00:38:36.619 --> 00:38:38.780 they there was a very different company back then. You know, they invented 513 00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:43.690 the HP way and they inventagement management by walking around and, you know, 514 00:38:43.809 --> 00:38:46.210 in the open door policy and there was so much this just become embedded in 515 00:38:46.329 --> 00:38:50.929 our corporate culture these days. That so they were. They were a true 516 00:38:50.929 --> 00:38:54.090 inspiration then. I you know, appreciate I had the opportunity to work in 517 00:38:54.210 --> 00:38:59.920 that environment back back in the S and s when when they were still around. 518 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:02.480 So I mentioned them. Their long past, but they they had a 519 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:07.840 really impact on the on the industry and the just corporate culture in general. 520 00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:13.110 The other one I would mention that I really appreciate is Jeff Walker and product 521 00:39:13.150 --> 00:39:16.030 launch formula. So he invented you're shaking your not in your head. So 522 00:39:16.070 --> 00:39:19.829 I assume you've heard of him. Oh, yeah, he's. You know, 523 00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:28.219 he invented ways of creating experiences for customers that really focus a lot on 524 00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:34.460 education, focus a lot on creating an effective experience that brings the prospector of 525 00:39:34.539 --> 00:39:38.730 the customer into the value of whatever it is you're offering and lead you down 526 00:39:39.010 --> 00:39:45.210 a process of engaging in a way that is, I think, is so 527 00:39:45.409 --> 00:39:51.170 widely used anymore in marketing, and especially an online in digital marketing, that 528 00:39:51.329 --> 00:39:53.000 I think we forget that. Jeff and beent a a lot of that back. 529 00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:57.119 I've probably been twelve years ago now that he did that it and a 530 00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.400 lot of companies are using aspects of that today. So those are a couple 531 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:05.599 of professionals, systems, individuals that I think had a pretty, pretty big 532 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:10.110 impact on me. Awesome. Any companies or brands come to mind? You 533 00:40:10.190 --> 00:40:15.989 know, I I follow apple very closely. You know, I own virtually 534 00:40:16.030 --> 00:40:22.500 every apple device that has known to exist and just the quality of the products 535 00:40:22.539 --> 00:40:29.420 that they create and and you talk about experience, and so every aspect of 536 00:40:29.539 --> 00:40:34.380 what they do, whether it's in the APPS or the websites that they create, 537 00:40:35.260 --> 00:40:37.610 if it's in the devices themselves, whether it's an apple watch or an 538 00:40:37.610 --> 00:40:43.329 iphone or a Mac, I just think I always turn to them when we're 539 00:40:43.329 --> 00:40:46.809 talking about experience. I always think about them as being the gold standard as 540 00:40:46.929 --> 00:40:52.320 far as the quality of the experience and how intuitive it is and how how 541 00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:54.519 truly delightful it is to interact with the things that they make, so I'll 542 00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:59.079 definitely want to mention them because I'm a big fan cool. I love all 543 00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.559 three of those choices. I when I think about companies today that really think 544 00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:08.150 about the relationship between humans and their devices, apple is obviously first or second 545 00:41:08.190 --> 00:41:12.670 to come to mind, with Amazon being right there with them. Jeff Walker, 546 00:41:12.750 --> 00:41:15.670 we all read that at bombomb years ago and we've generated at least a 547 00:41:15.710 --> 00:41:21.780 million dollars in revenue. And that my favorite thing about that process that he 548 00:41:21.860 --> 00:41:25.659 advocates in the product launch formula. I forget the exact name of the book 549 00:41:25.659 --> 00:41:30.179 but it's something like that, is that it's actually called launch. Is the 550 00:41:30.219 --> 00:41:34.250 body there. You go right, and so even for people who don't take 551 00:41:34.289 --> 00:41:37.650 you up on the offer and don't pay you a dollar of revenue, they 552 00:41:37.730 --> 00:41:42.170 still got a massive amount of value. And so from a at bomb when 553 00:41:42.210 --> 00:41:45.610 we would do these teachings and things that would lead to some opportunity for someone 554 00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:49.320 to spend time or money with us, even people who didn't opt to follow 555 00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:53.079 along to that last stage still got a massive amount of value. Huge engagement 556 00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:57.840 with the software and with our team is just really positive experience. So I 557 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:01.429 love with that leaves customers with in a huge proponent of managing by walking around. 558 00:42:01.469 --> 00:42:05.949 It's something I discovered on my own and then I realized, you know, 559 00:42:06.150 --> 00:42:10.789 in doing some more traditional corporate culture and business reading as I was coming 560 00:42:10.829 --> 00:42:13.710 up in my career, as like, Oh, this is actually a thing, 561 00:42:14.349 --> 00:42:19.500 you know, there's actually a useful philosophy and practice. I'm so legitimate. 562 00:42:20.139 --> 00:42:22.900 Anyway, Bob, this has been great. I've really enjoyed it. 563 00:42:22.019 --> 00:42:24.900 If someone wants to follow up on this conversation, they want to connect with 564 00:42:24.980 --> 00:42:30.090 you or answer lab or, it's the USERSCOM. If people enjoyed this, 565 00:42:30.170 --> 00:42:34.010 where would you send them to follow up? So we have a lot of 566 00:42:34.130 --> 00:42:37.610 free materials to help people get started in this world of user and customer experience 567 00:42:38.210 --> 00:42:44.050 and a lot of advanced materials, learning courses, tools, platforms, etc. 568 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:49.880 Also, I offer a free personalized consult so if you if you go 569 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:54.920 to it's the USERSCOM, bombomb, then you can sign up for all those 570 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:59.670 free materials and that extensive library and you can also sign up for some time 571 00:42:59.710 --> 00:43:02.630 with me to guide you through this and talk specifically about Your Business, your 572 00:43:02.670 --> 00:43:07.550 customers and how to make all of this work for you. Awesome. Thank 573 00:43:07.590 --> 00:43:10.670 you so much, Bob. That's it's the USERSCOM bomb bomb. If you 574 00:43:10.710 --> 00:43:15.099 want to see video clips from this episode links to some of the things that 575 00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:20.340 we talked about, you can always visit Bombombcom podcast. Thank you so much 576 00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:22.940 for listening, and Bob, thank you so much for your time and insights. 577 00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:28.650 Ethan, all the best, take care. Is Your buyer a BBB 578 00:43:28.769 --> 00:43:31.929 marketer? If so, you should think about sponsoring this podcast. BB growth 579 00:43:31.969 --> 00:43:36.929 gets downloaded over a hundred and thirty thousand times each month and our listeners are 580 00:43:37.050 --> 00:43:40.480 marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting, send logan and email logan at 581 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.840 sweet fish mediacom.
