Demand Creation vs. Demand Capture

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:07.890 what's up? Everybody welcome back to be to be growth. My name is Leslie Cruise 3 00:00:07.890 --> 00:00:11.490 with sweet fish media and we are continuing our deep dive into demand 4 00:00:11.490 --> 00:00:15.610 generation. If you are just now diving in if this is your first time listening 5 00:00:15.610 --> 00:00:19.800 to me to be growth, we've been on a deep dive the entire month of april. 6 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:22.880 We've been talking to different practitioners and thought leaders in 7 00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:27.150 the space about demand generation and the goal has been to kind of define 8 00:00:27.150 --> 00:00:31.580 what it is, um what it's not and where it's headed in the future. So today I 9 00:00:31.580 --> 00:00:36.150 am so excited to be joined by Andy Davis head of demand generation at a 10 00:00:36.150 --> 00:00:39.740 test Andy thanks so much for coming onto the show. Where is happy to be 11 00:00:39.740 --> 00:00:43.730 here? Absolutely. So the first question I always ask and you know I'm really 12 00:00:43.730 --> 00:00:46.480 excited to hear your answer. I feel like everybody has a different answer 13 00:00:46.480 --> 00:00:51.650 is how do you, in your own words, define demand generation? Yeah, I mean 14 00:00:51.650 --> 00:00:56.140 I define it very simply, it's generating demand for your business. So 15 00:00:56.150 --> 00:00:59.990 if you think about that in terms of supply and demand, right? Supply is how 16 00:00:59.990 --> 00:01:03.020 much of a thing you've got to sell? And demand is how many people want to buy 17 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:08.710 it. So demand generation is the job of demand generation is to increase the 18 00:01:08.710 --> 00:01:11.850 amount of people in market who want to buy whatever product it happens to be 19 00:01:11.850 --> 00:01:16.820 the or selling. Um, so yeah, from a B2B perspective that is kind of running all 20 00:01:16.820 --> 00:01:20.730 of the different campaigns that you could could wish to run and want to run, 21 00:01:20.740 --> 00:01:26.010 uh, increases kind of intent to purchase for your solution within your 22 00:01:26.010 --> 00:01:30.400 target bias. Absolutely, easy peasy. I love it to tell me, what are some 23 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:34.890 things that you are doing as head of demand generation at a test that kind 24 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:39.350 of makes your team stand out among the demand gen crowd? Yeah, that's a big 25 00:01:39.350 --> 00:01:46.950 question, testing my british modesty there. I think we're, I mean we're 26 00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:51.090 above anything. We're just trying to be really good at like the fundamentals, 27 00:01:51.100 --> 00:01:55.200 like more than anything, we're trying to be rather not necessarily standing 28 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.620 out of the crowd, but I've been part of the right crowd. And what I mean by 29 00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:02.040 that is there's like a trend towards revenue marketing over kind of legion 30 00:02:02.110 --> 00:02:08.139 and we are like moving ourselves to be kind of a revenue focused team in terms 31 00:02:08.139 --> 00:02:11.630 of like what we do, that might be slightly different to other people. I 32 00:02:11.630 --> 00:02:17.970 mean, as as a marketing team test test is a research platform. So we're 33 00:02:17.970 --> 00:02:21.660 sitting on a date, a gold mine essentially. So whenever we have a 34 00:02:21.660 --> 00:02:25.300 question that we could want to ask a group of people, we can use our own 35 00:02:25.300 --> 00:02:29.540 product to ask it. And so for all of our content has our product front and 36 00:02:29.540 --> 00:02:32.670 center. So whenever you see if you were to look at any of test marketing and 37 00:02:32.670 --> 00:02:35.620 use for a data point in there and a piece of insight, we've used our own 38 00:02:35.620 --> 00:02:38.340 tool to come up with that, and what that means is that we can put our own 39 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:42.230 product at the center of everything. Was also being kind of thought leaders 40 00:02:42.230 --> 00:02:46.830 and educational and insight for being kind of like present the product whilst 41 00:02:46.830 --> 00:02:49.590 also not necessarily talking about the product, but links straight through to 42 00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:53.130 the product if you wish to use the dashboard inside our platform to do 43 00:02:53.130 --> 00:02:57.180 your own data analysis on the insights that you've just read. So it's kind of 44 00:02:57.180 --> 00:03:01.250 like almost like a slightly different take on the idea of being product lead. 45 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:07.360 Um and that we can actually literally put the result that our product 46 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:13.540 producers into our marketing in a way that isn't transactional, like I want 47 00:03:13.540 --> 00:03:16.590 to buy my things, I want to buy my thing. I mean we were gifted that 48 00:03:16.590 --> 00:03:19.380 because of the nature of our product, it makes it easier for us to do that. 49 00:03:19.380 --> 00:03:25.780 In some word. I think that is one thing that we do that perhaps other companies, 50 00:03:25.790 --> 00:03:31.590 not every other company does do. I know there are a lot that do do that, like 51 00:03:31.600 --> 00:03:36.830 hats off to them because it works for us. Absolutely. One thing I wanted to 52 00:03:36.830 --> 00:03:40.180 talk to you about, I believe you did a Lincoln status a few months ago or 53 00:03:40.180 --> 00:03:44.030 maybe a few weeks ago on this um and its demand creation versus demand 54 00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:46.940 capture. And this is something that's really, really interesting to me in 55 00:03:46.940 --> 00:03:50.010 this realm of demand generation because it is something that's kind of trending 56 00:03:50.010 --> 00:03:54.260 right now. What is the difference in between, you know, demand capture 57 00:03:54.260 --> 00:04:02.570 capturing demand and creating it? Yeah, so, I mean, demand creation is the job 58 00:04:02.570 --> 00:04:09.780 of communicating, I either like educational content or kind of content 59 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:14.490 that very clearly aligns a pain point that someone may be feeling in their 60 00:04:14.490 --> 00:04:18.370 work day to a solution that your product offers, that could make that 61 00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:22.180 pain point go away. So that is the activity that kind of in whatever 62 00:04:22.180 --> 00:04:26.050 channels you choose to use, whatever channels work for you, for you creating 63 00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:29.350 that connection to kind of like problem I have in my work day and Oh yeah, 64 00:04:29.350 --> 00:04:32.890 there's this thing that can help me solve it. So basically, the thing 65 00:04:32.890 --> 00:04:38.560 that's building that intent to purchase, that's demand creation, demand capture 66 00:04:38.570 --> 00:04:47.050 is essentially no wastage. So if someone is either in market too buy 67 00:04:47.050 --> 00:04:52.360 something in the category that you exist within or they're in market to 68 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:53.960 buy your product. 69 00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:01.190 Demand capture is about just don't waste any of that purchase in town. So 70 00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:05.060 that could be that if someone is searching for something a bit like what 71 00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:08.900 you sell, make sure you appear in the rankings and make sure you're easy to 72 00:05:08.900 --> 00:05:14.140 find, make sure your website explain what you do clearly maybe make your 73 00:05:14.140 --> 00:05:17.830 pricing available so they can make that part of the assessment, make it easy to 74 00:05:17.830 --> 00:05:23.260 book in with a salesperson right there are tons of tools out there that enable 75 00:05:23.260 --> 00:05:28.120 you to book time with a salesperson yourself on a website. It's not 76 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.360 necessary to handle your email address and have an email exchange with someone 77 00:05:31.740 --> 00:05:35.750 that's just being kind of really like bio centric in that process. And from 78 00:05:35.750 --> 00:05:42.940 my perspective like from like if my target is revenue, I have to care what 79 00:05:42.940 --> 00:05:47.740 happens further down the line. So like demand catcher. Also, it's also like my 80 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:52.010 team's relationship with the Sdrs, how often we communicate, how aligned we 81 00:05:52.010 --> 00:05:55.480 are saying exactly the same stuff with the sales team. Like all of those 82 00:05:55.480 --> 00:06:00.450 things that just kind of like clear a path to becoming a customer all count 83 00:06:00.840 --> 00:06:04.920 Within that demand capture thing. That's like 101 stuff, right? This is 84 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:10.910 like, oh, it's so hard to do the one creation bit right, involves so much 85 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:15.750 customer understanding. It involves so much like tireless effort on getting 86 00:06:15.750 --> 00:06:20.770 your proposition, messaging bang on and testing in channels and working on your 87 00:06:20.770 --> 00:06:26.160 creative and all of that stuff to do all of that. And then let an 88 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:32.660 opportunity to have a new client that you could help grow their business slip 89 00:06:32.670 --> 00:06:38.140 because some of those demand capture channels or processes were sub optimal, 90 00:06:38.140 --> 00:06:43.450 is it's not good. Yeah. And I think that's that's something that you and I 91 00:06:43.450 --> 00:06:46.600 talked about offline recently and you had that experience and I think that's 92 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.570 why the customer experience is so important. Do you mind sharing what you 93 00:06:49.570 --> 00:06:54.000 shared with me about that experience you had? Yeah. I mean, this happens, 94 00:06:54.010 --> 00:06:56.770 this has happened to me multiple times, Right? And it probably happens to 95 00:06:56.770 --> 00:07:02.090 anyone who goes and buys B to be anything. Is one, is this example of, 96 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:05.700 okay, you have two choices when I go to book a demo on a website. I can even 97 00:07:05.700 --> 00:07:09.600 just pick a time right there as as it suits me. And because the tool will 98 00:07:09.610 --> 00:07:13.940 make it so so it suits the salesperson as well. Plus points. If you do some 99 00:07:13.940 --> 00:07:18.030 lead scoring in that as well. So that if I'm like high school for you, I 100 00:07:18.030 --> 00:07:22.100 bypassed SDR going straight through to a fantastic or you can get me to fill 101 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:25.100 in a form and then a few days later someone gets back to me and maybe we 102 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:29.380 have a meeting like that is just one example of an experience which still 103 00:07:29.380 --> 00:07:33.560 occurs and then you get into the into the south process itself. So you've got 104 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:39.240 one where given my role and the company that I worked for and the fact that I 105 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.770 do what I do, like I know when I'm I C. P. For a company when I'm on their 106 00:07:43.770 --> 00:07:49.630 website, just right, so if I my C. P. For their website and then I have their 107 00:07:49.630 --> 00:07:52.700 their product and I go through their sales journey. And the first thing that 108 00:07:52.700 --> 00:07:58.300 I have to do is to kind of explain to someone in a qualifying call, like why 109 00:07:58.300 --> 00:08:01.760 I'm almost like why am I good enough to buy your product? That's not a great 110 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:05.030 buying experience. So I've had it had experiences kind of recently either 111 00:08:05.030 --> 00:08:07.880 where like I've put in my email address in a demo form and someone hasn't got 112 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:11.400 back to me, it doesn't make sense. Or were actually the sales process has 113 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:14.900 been managed in such a different way. You start to start veering towards the 114 00:08:14.900 --> 00:08:20.690 cleaner easier process when we checked the other day. That might be kind of 115 00:08:20.690 --> 00:08:26.570 like the example I gave us if it's a bit like this, if you are interested in 116 00:08:26.570 --> 00:08:30.800 buying a tv and you knew which one you wanted and you went to the high street, 117 00:08:30.810 --> 00:08:34.260 imagine you go to the high street, went into a tv shop, you stood in front of 118 00:08:34.260 --> 00:08:38.500 the tv you want to buy, you have to wait 15 minutes when someone comes up 119 00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:41.750 to you to offer that tv to you or help you by. Actually they ask you if you've 120 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:44.410 got enough money in your pocket to buy it first and then they go and get 121 00:08:44.410 --> 00:08:46.750 someone else is the one that actually then runs the process and that you 122 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:49.770 purchase, you're not going to stand by that T. V. You're gonna get bored and 123 00:08:49.770 --> 00:08:53.110 walk off. And that's what happens in vita peace health processes. And that's 124 00:08:53.110 --> 00:08:56.480 why the one capture is so important. Like that's someone basically with the 125 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.420 checkbook halfway out their pocket, kind of interested in what you've got 126 00:08:59.420 --> 00:09:03.480 to sell and you made it hard for them to buy your product. It doesn't make 127 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:07.060 sense. So like, I mean, test, we've not got this perfect right? We're still 128 00:09:07.060 --> 00:09:10.770 working on it like this for endless optimization on on the on these 129 00:09:10.770 --> 00:09:14.570 processes to make them better. But that's the intention is basically 130 00:09:14.570 --> 00:09:18.040 almost like to create a great prospect experience because it's a bit of an 131 00:09:18.040 --> 00:09:23.610 indicator of what you're maybe we'll my view rightly or wrongly. It starts 132 00:09:23.610 --> 00:09:27.280 making me ask questions about what they're. Service experience is going to 133 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:32.030 be like if that prospect experiences a bit bumpy, that could be completely 134 00:09:32.030 --> 00:09:37.950 unfair. But that's the kind of the perception that can create. Hey 135 00:09:37.950 --> 00:09:42.620 everybody Logan was sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of GDP growth, 136 00:09:42.630 --> 00:09:46.260 you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show, but you may not know that. 137 00:09:46.260 --> 00:09:50.240 I also head up the sales team here is sweet fish. So for those of you in 138 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.190 sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to share something that's made 139 00:09:54.190 --> 00:09:58.770 us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the 140 00:09:58.770 --> 00:10:03.180 past few months and what used to take us four hours Gathering contact data. 141 00:10:03.190 --> 00:10:08.720 Now takes us only one where 75 more efficient were able to move faster with 142 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:13.600 outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. 143 00:10:13.610 --> 00:10:17.750 I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check them 144 00:10:17.750 --> 00:10:25.110 out at lead I. Q. Dot com. That's L E A D I. Q dot com. All right, let's get 145 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:32.260 back to the show. Yeah, I love that. I love that idea of hey you go to buy a T. 146 00:10:32.260 --> 00:10:35.820 V. And it's the same situation. I mean it's it's literally the same thing. You 147 00:10:35.820 --> 00:10:38.860 get bored, you get tired of standing there, you get frustrated and then 148 00:10:38.860 --> 00:10:42.140 you're probably not gonna go recommend that to your friends. You're probably 149 00:10:42.140 --> 00:10:44.830 not going to say, hey go to this tv store. I got great service, They're 150 00:10:44.830 --> 00:10:48.520 conceived in it. So that's great. And clearing that path is so important, 151 00:10:48.520 --> 00:10:52.240 like you said, and making it easy to see the prices making it easy on your 152 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.250 website, but not making it so difficult. Your customers shouldn't have to dig 153 00:10:56.260 --> 00:10:59.940 for what they're looking for. So, another thing that you and I talked 154 00:10:59.940 --> 00:11:04.650 about and this is another question I have for you is what are some things 155 00:11:04.650 --> 00:11:09.440 that marketers in this space tend to get wrong? And you and I talked a 156 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.310 little bit about kind of like overthinking organic on linkedin and 157 00:11:13.310 --> 00:11:18.660 things like that. Yeah, so organic Arlington is a interesting one, is 158 00:11:18.660 --> 00:11:23.110 something that I'm like relatively neurotic in my like personal, like 159 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:28.510 activities. I feel like we're talking about it. My little like B two B system 160 00:11:28.510 --> 00:11:32.960 Manchin, like echo chambers that exist within like it's like an answer to lots 161 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:37.180 of problems. But what I'm finding what what my my experience is actually, 162 00:11:37.180 --> 00:11:40.350 there's like this and things about it that could make it really challenging 163 00:11:40.350 --> 00:11:43.110 for some businesses, which would not make it an answer to all your problems. 164 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.920 Um and so and and and the kind of the lesson that I've gained so far in this 165 00:11:46.920 --> 00:11:50.660 is about it's actually quite hard to have validity with your target audience. 166 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:54.940 So if I look at the people, they're doing it really well, they're experts 167 00:11:54.950 --> 00:11:58.130 in the thing that they're talking about because that makes sense right? If 168 00:11:58.130 --> 00:12:01.510 you're going to follow someone as a thought leader or an influencer, you 169 00:12:01.510 --> 00:12:04.410 want to know that they know what they're talking about. And so that that 170 00:12:04.420 --> 00:12:07.640 initial thing of like if you want to use linkedin organic or whatever kind 171 00:12:07.640 --> 00:12:11.580 of organic channels, but that person needs to be a valid like spokesperson 172 00:12:11.590 --> 00:12:17.010 around that topic for me personally like my target audiences B two C. 173 00:12:17.010 --> 00:12:21.780 Marketers were marketers but I actually don't have that much validity because 174 00:12:21.780 --> 00:12:26.680 my area of expertise not all that relevant. And so the things that I can 175 00:12:26.680 --> 00:12:31.560 write about and do so with some knowledge to back it up, they're not 176 00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:33.930 necessarily things they're going to resonate with the target audience for 177 00:12:33.930 --> 00:12:37.460 the company I work for. That makes me even though I'm in the right department. 178 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.510 In theory, I'm not actually a good spokesperson on organic. Well that like 179 00:12:42.510 --> 00:12:48.110 finding that individual or who can do that is like thing one anything to it's 180 00:12:48.110 --> 00:12:52.900 like it's like a real They need to have the time and inclination which sounds 181 00:12:52.900 --> 00:12:56.210 like it should be easy but it's like a hugely time consuming activity to write 182 00:12:56.210 --> 00:13:00.080 the content, to engage with people to follow people commenting on different 183 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:04.500 people's things, like to learn how the algorithm works to get your head around 184 00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:08.020 like time of day. How many times does it matter if I go into the app like 185 00:13:08.020 --> 00:13:12.280 every 15? Because I've become obsessed by how many views my post has got and 186 00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:15.860 I've been is that affecting it things negatively looks like it kind of does, 187 00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:18.860 but I don't really know, you know, they're like all of these lessons, 188 00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:21.680 these are hugely time consuming. You need like an expert who's willing to 189 00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:25.850 invest like that if you don't have that within your business and like that's 190 00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:30.090 entirely possible that you could just not have that individual, then it's 191 00:13:30.090 --> 00:13:33.260 obviously not gonna be the channel for you just because of practicalities. 192 00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:36.920 Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think that's something that's really interesting 193 00:13:36.920 --> 00:13:40.980 because I think a lot of people are so focused on like this, you know, we have 194 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:43.330 to be on linkedin and everybody has to be talking on linkedin and it's 195 00:13:43.330 --> 00:13:47.130 something that our company has been doing lately too. We've been really, 196 00:13:47.140 --> 00:13:51.030 all of us have been talking on linkedin, we've been making a lot of posts 197 00:13:51.030 --> 00:13:54.340 recently and I think it's been really great for us. But I talked to someone 198 00:13:54.340 --> 00:13:58.010 yesterday, we were talking about how that might not be where your target 199 00:13:58.010 --> 00:14:02.480 audience is, which is another thing to touch on two because I mean, if you're, 200 00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:04.650 you know, if you're trying to reach me to be, then yeah, I mean they're 201 00:14:04.650 --> 00:14:07.860 totally going to be on linkedin, but if you're trying to reach like an engineer, 202 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:11.730 there are more likely to be on Reddit or or another platform like that. So 203 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:16.460 it's not always the best place and it's not always the only place, you know? 204 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.350 Yeah, exactly, Exactly. Exactly. And that comes down to kind of like knowing 205 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:25.410 no, no, your customer and nowhere there playing. I mean like, like part of kind 206 00:14:25.410 --> 00:14:31.230 of like the job of selecting like a demand creation channel is like who, 207 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:35.610 who are my target audience and where do they already go on the internet? All 208 00:14:35.610 --> 00:14:39.650 right. Let's just go there building communities. If you can get it right, 209 00:14:39.650 --> 00:14:44.350 it's like gold. It's super hot, so much easier to 210 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:50.090 participate in a way that's appropriate in a community that already exists. But 211 00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:55.450 I think you're right. So if my company sold a B two B marketers gold, right? I 212 00:14:55.450 --> 00:15:00.220 would just ask to have like, can I have like an hour and a half a day to cut 213 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:03.720 out so that I will do this Lincoln thing because he's going to grow our 214 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:08.350 business and now listen, I have the ability to have people listen to me 215 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:13.750 because hopefully at least I know some stuff about kind of defeating the 216 00:15:13.750 --> 00:15:17.570 margin and that means that I can talk to people kind of like peer to peer. 217 00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:22.430 Yeah, I say like if you find that if you have that person great and your 218 00:15:22.430 --> 00:15:25.280 audience is linked it great. If there's somewhere else go somewhere else. But 219 00:15:25.290 --> 00:15:30.040 even then you're gonna need, like in that engineers scenario, the best 220 00:15:30.040 --> 00:15:33.770 people to do it would be your engineers. Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit 221 00:15:33.770 --> 00:15:38.900 about success in demand gen and a demand gen strategy. Sometimes this is 222 00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:42.590 a little bit difficult to measure. So I wanted to ask you, how do you measure 223 00:15:42.590 --> 00:15:46.820 success in a demand gen strategy? And what do you think some people tend to 224 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:52.240 get wrong here as well? Yeah, I mean how ultimate measure of success is 225 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.230 inbound source revenue. If that is where it needs to be. We're on quite 226 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:01.220 urban, it's almost true that no other metric that we might track higher up 227 00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:05.310 the final matters if revenue, if we're hitting the revenue number be 228 00:16:05.310 --> 00:16:09.280 interpreted. But there's like there is however long your sales cycle is 229 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:14.420 between kind of like the capture of that lead and hand over into the sales 230 00:16:14.420 --> 00:16:17.320 organization and when that revenue materializes. So you have to have 231 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.970 something a bit higher up that you can kind of, uh, you can use as a leading 232 00:16:21.970 --> 00:16:25.050 indicator of whether you're gonna hit that number. So we look at pipeline, 233 00:16:25.540 --> 00:16:31.120 pipeline generated, we look at meetings where we look at kind of like demo 234 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:35.820 request, essentially, uh, coming in, which is this like great measure of 235 00:16:35.830 --> 00:16:39.080 high intent lead. So if someone's coming to us and saying, hey, can I 236 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:42.890 talk to you about what you have to sell? That is a really good indicator of the 237 00:16:42.900 --> 00:16:46.810 demand creation work that we're doing is working. They also convert through 238 00:16:46.810 --> 00:16:50.080 the funnel better than anything else that we can put through. And then we 239 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:54.210 look at what we, what we call meetings book, which is essentially after 240 00:16:54.210 --> 00:16:58.620 whoever takes that demo runs that demo, it moves into the next stage was 241 00:16:58.630 --> 00:17:02.860 essentially like it's moving into the pipeline. So we have like to kind of 242 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.210 numerical targets, like the number of demo number of meetings and then we'll 243 00:17:08.210 --> 00:17:13.680 have like dollar pipeline. There are, there are a ton of other things that we 244 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:20.859 look at, like town metrics and website metrics and all of the rest of it. But 245 00:17:20.869 --> 00:17:26.089 those are the four things that I look at in my Salesforce dashboard. If I'm 246 00:17:26.089 --> 00:17:30.260 honest, like multiple times a day, probably more than I should. But those 247 00:17:30.260 --> 00:17:33.060 are the ones I really look at because those are the things they're like, are 248 00:17:33.060 --> 00:17:37.570 we across everything? If I stopped looking all the microscopic little bits 249 00:17:37.570 --> 00:17:40.560 of data that could send us off down the rabbit holes that potentially aren't 250 00:17:40.560 --> 00:17:44.170 helpful. Okay. At really high level are we trending in the right direction? 251 00:17:44.740 --> 00:17:48.170 Like if there were requests are going up, I have a high confidence that means 252 00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:52.160 pipeline and revenue will go up because because it has such a kind of strong 253 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.550 influence on the on those numbers. So those are the ones we look at as like 254 00:17:55.560 --> 00:18:01.000 the the the overarching kind of measures of success or like indicators 255 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:06.650 of success and then there's just a pile of other metrics that we look at which 256 00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:12.400 are more like are these channels working as expected? That's great. What 257 00:18:12.410 --> 00:18:16.780 are some specific tools or maybe advice that you would share with somebody who 258 00:18:16.780 --> 00:18:20.050 is implementing demand generation into their organization for maybe the first 259 00:18:20.050 --> 00:18:22.710 time? You know, maybe there are new business, maybe there are very, very 260 00:18:22.710 --> 00:18:26.000 small startup business um with not a lot of people on their team and they 261 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.790 need to implement these demand gen strategies. Um what's something that 262 00:18:29.790 --> 00:18:34.250 you would recommend or some advice that you would share? Yeah, I tell you don't 263 00:18:34.250 --> 00:18:39.000 actually need that many tools that you need. You need a Crm. If you haven't 264 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:42.560 got one ready right, you need some kind of crm to be managing a sales process 265 00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:47.110 you need. So I'd say you need some mechanism to send emails that is 266 00:18:47.110 --> 00:18:50.410 connected to that Crm and I would strongly recommend you keep talking 267 00:18:50.410 --> 00:18:53.440 about it is like make it easy for someone to book a meeting with the 268 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:57.410 sales team if you've managed to create inbound demand and like have analytics 269 00:18:57.410 --> 00:19:00.160 on your website and all that kind of stuff. But once you've got passed out, 270 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:05.050 like another tool, like it's not the next thing that I would do, Like I 271 00:19:05.050 --> 00:19:08.150 wouldn't then go, alright, yeah, we need a lead scoring framework. So they 272 00:19:08.150 --> 00:19:11.890 were like, you've got some other things that a bit more foundational that you 273 00:19:11.890 --> 00:19:15.960 need to do. So then point you kind of, rather than looking at another tool, 274 00:19:16.340 --> 00:19:19.400 you need to think about like what are you going to communicate into the 275 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.700 market and to know what to communicate into the market. You need to know who 276 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.630 you're gonna communicate it to and you kind of need to understand a bit about 277 00:19:25.630 --> 00:19:30.060 that day. So actually then like the next stage in demand generation 278 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.850 actually looks a bit like some product marketing fundamentals because that is 279 00:19:34.850 --> 00:19:38.940 the groundwork that makes the actual demand generation things that you might 280 00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:44.020 see when you're out into the channels work better and then you've got this 281 00:19:44.020 --> 00:19:46.950 kind of like the prospect experience stuff that was talking about. So it's 282 00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:52.240 like if you, if seriously, if you're that early and you should be working 283 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.090 out how you can like white glove, any kind of lead that's coming through 284 00:19:57.090 --> 00:20:00.590 through the Orig and give them a really good experience right through to 285 00:20:00.600 --> 00:20:05.340 customer experience because they're so precious When, you know, when you've 286 00:20:05.340 --> 00:20:11.090 got, when you've got less than 10 clients like and any another one, it's 287 00:20:11.090 --> 00:20:16.910 amazing. The 10% uplift, brilliant. Um, so like, so that's almost like the 288 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.940 things just like make sure that engine is clean, which is kind of somewhat 289 00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:22.740 relationships, it won't be much went, there might be much in the way of tech 290 00:20:22.750 --> 00:20:26.410 because if, if you are in that state and the volume is fairly life. But I I 291 00:20:26.410 --> 00:20:31.170 guess what I would stress is you can pile tech upon tech upon tech upon tech 292 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:37.260 and it's not actually going to make the demand gen activities work better like 293 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:43.420 oven in itself. It's like there are some just pure marketing fundamentals 294 00:20:43.430 --> 00:20:48.840 that will make it work better like having great messaging and having some 295 00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:53.530 really good creative that you've tested and you know resonates will have a much 296 00:20:53.530 --> 00:20:58.440 bigger impact than buying in some platform that does something that 297 00:20:58.450 --> 00:21:02.460 sounds cool, totally agree, that's awesome. Andy this has been wonderful, 298 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:05.260 thank you so much for coming on GDP growth and sharing with our audience. I 299 00:21:05.260 --> 00:21:08.800 know this has been really insightful for me, my career moving forward and 300 00:21:08.810 --> 00:21:12.540 hopefully our listeners games and value as well. Where can people find you 301 00:21:12.540 --> 00:21:17.200 online if they are interested in hearing more from you Lincoln Lincoln 302 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.970 is the best place. There are a lot of Andy Davis is on Lincoln but there's 303 00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:24.880 only one Andy Davis that works that attest to search for Andy Davis the 304 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:25.560 test your friend. 305 00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:30.600 Perfect. Thank you again so much for joining me here on B2B growth. No, my 306 00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:31.640 pleasure. Thank you for having me. 307 00:21:34.340 --> 00:21:38.020 One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of 308 00:21:38.020 --> 00:21:42.700 mouth works. It works really, really well actually. So if you love this show, 309 00:21:42.700 --> 00:21:46.620 it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. And if 310 00:21:46.620 --> 00:21:50.950 you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend meta, 311 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:54.590 I know I'll send you a copy of my book, content based networking, how to 312 00:21:54.600 --> 00:21:58.040 instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell phone number is 313 00:21:58.040 --> 00:22:07.050 40749033 to 8. Happy Texting. Yeah,