April 29, 2021

Demand Creation vs. Demand Capture

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As we wind down our demand gen series, Lesley Crews talks with Andy Davis, Head of Demand Gen at Attest, about demand creation vs. demand capture, and why having both of these in your demand generation strategy is crucial. 

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:07.890 what's up? Everybody welcome back to be to be growth. My name is Leslie Cruise 3 00:00:07.890 --> 00:00:11.490 with sweet fish media and we are continuing our deep dive into demand 4 00:00:11.490 --> 00:00:15.610 generation. If you are just now diving in if this is your first time listening 5 00:00:15.610 --> 00:00:19.800 to me to be growth, we've been on a deep dive the entire month of april. 6 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:22.880 We've been talking to different practitioners and thought leaders in 7 00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:27.150 the space about demand generation and the goal has been to kind of define 8 00:00:27.150 --> 00:00:31.580 what it is, um what it's not and where it's headed in the future. So today I 9 00:00:31.580 --> 00:00:36.150 am so excited to be joined by Andy Davis head of demand generation at a 10 00:00:36.150 --> 00:00:39.740 test Andy thanks so much for coming onto the show. Where is happy to be 11 00:00:39.740 --> 00:00:43.730 here? Absolutely. So the first question I always ask and you know I'm really 12 00:00:43.730 --> 00:00:46.480 excited to hear your answer. I feel like everybody has a different answer 13 00:00:46.480 --> 00:00:51.650 is how do you, in your own words, define demand generation? Yeah, I mean 14 00:00:51.650 --> 00:00:56.140 I define it very simply, it's generating demand for your business. So 15 00:00:56.150 --> 00:00:59.990 if you think about that in terms of supply and demand, right? Supply is how 16 00:00:59.990 --> 00:01:03.020 much of a thing you've got to sell? And demand is how many people want to buy 17 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:08.710 it. So demand generation is the job of demand generation is to increase the 18 00:01:08.710 --> 00:01:11.850 amount of people in market who want to buy whatever product it happens to be 19 00:01:11.850 --> 00:01:16.820 the or selling. Um, so yeah, from a B2B perspective that is kind of running all 20 00:01:16.820 --> 00:01:20.730 of the different campaigns that you could could wish to run and want to run, 21 00:01:20.740 --> 00:01:26.010 uh, increases kind of intent to purchase for your solution within your 22 00:01:26.010 --> 00:01:30.400 target bias. Absolutely, easy peasy. I love it to tell me, what are some 23 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:34.890 things that you are doing as head of demand generation at a test that kind 24 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:39.350 of makes your team stand out among the demand gen crowd? Yeah, that's a big 25 00:01:39.350 --> 00:01:46.950 question, testing my british modesty there. I think we're, I mean we're 26 00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:51.090 above anything. We're just trying to be really good at like the fundamentals, 27 00:01:51.100 --> 00:01:55.200 like more than anything, we're trying to be rather not necessarily standing 28 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:57.620 out of the crowd, but I've been part of the right crowd. And what I mean by 29 00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:02.040 that is there's like a trend towards revenue marketing over kind of legion 30 00:02:02.110 --> 00:02:08.139 and we are like moving ourselves to be kind of a revenue focused team in terms 31 00:02:08.139 --> 00:02:11.630 of like what we do, that might be slightly different to other people. I 32 00:02:11.630 --> 00:02:17.970 mean, as as a marketing team test test is a research platform. So we're 33 00:02:17.970 --> 00:02:21.660 sitting on a date, a gold mine essentially. So whenever we have a 34 00:02:21.660 --> 00:02:25.300 question that we could want to ask a group of people, we can use our own 35 00:02:25.300 --> 00:02:29.540 product to ask it. And so for all of our content has our product front and 36 00:02:29.540 --> 00:02:32.670 center. So whenever you see if you were to look at any of test marketing and 37 00:02:32.670 --> 00:02:35.620 use for a data point in there and a piece of insight, we've used our own 38 00:02:35.620 --> 00:02:38.340 tool to come up with that, and what that means is that we can put our own 39 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:42.230 product at the center of everything. Was also being kind of thought leaders 40 00:02:42.230 --> 00:02:46.830 and educational and insight for being kind of like present the product whilst 41 00:02:46.830 --> 00:02:49.590 also not necessarily talking about the product, but links straight through to 42 00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:53.130 the product if you wish to use the dashboard inside our platform to do 43 00:02:53.130 --> 00:02:57.180 your own data analysis on the insights that you've just read. So it's kind of 44 00:02:57.180 --> 00:03:01.250 like almost like a slightly different take on the idea of being product lead. 45 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:07.360 Um and that we can actually literally put the result that our product 46 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:13.540 producers into our marketing in a way that isn't transactional, like I want 47 00:03:13.540 --> 00:03:16.590 to buy my things, I want to buy my thing. I mean we were gifted that 48 00:03:16.590 --> 00:03:19.380 because of the nature of our product, it makes it easier for us to do that. 49 00:03:19.380 --> 00:03:25.780 In some word. I think that is one thing that we do that perhaps other companies, 50 00:03:25.790 --> 00:03:31.590 not every other company does do. I know there are a lot that do do that, like 51 00:03:31.600 --> 00:03:36.830 hats off to them because it works for us. Absolutely. One thing I wanted to 52 00:03:36.830 --> 00:03:40.180 talk to you about, I believe you did a Lincoln status a few months ago or 53 00:03:40.180 --> 00:03:44.030 maybe a few weeks ago on this um and its demand creation versus demand 54 00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:46.940 capture. And this is something that's really, really interesting to me in 55 00:03:46.940 --> 00:03:50.010 this realm of demand generation because it is something that's kind of trending 56 00:03:50.010 --> 00:03:54.260 right now. What is the difference in between, you know, demand capture 57 00:03:54.260 --> 00:04:02.570 capturing demand and creating it? Yeah, so, I mean, demand creation is the job 58 00:04:02.570 --> 00:04:09.780 of communicating, I either like educational content or kind of content 59 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:14.490 that very clearly aligns a pain point that someone may be feeling in their 60 00:04:14.490 --> 00:04:18.370 work day to a solution that your product offers, that could make that 61 00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:22.180 pain point go away. So that is the activity that kind of in whatever 62 00:04:22.180 --> 00:04:26.050 channels you choose to use, whatever channels work for you, for you creating 63 00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:29.350 that connection to kind of like problem I have in my work day and Oh yeah, 64 00:04:29.350 --> 00:04:32.890 there's this thing that can help me solve it. So basically, the thing 65 00:04:32.890 --> 00:04:38.560 that's building that intent to purchase, that's demand creation, demand capture 66 00:04:38.570 --> 00:04:47.050 is essentially no wastage. So if someone is either in market too buy 67 00:04:47.050 --> 00:04:52.360 something in the category that you exist within or they're in market to 68 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:53.960 buy your product. 69 00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:01.190 Demand capture is about just don't waste any of that purchase in town. So 70 00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:05.060 that could be that if someone is searching for something a bit like what 71 00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:08.900 you sell, make sure you appear in the rankings and make sure you're easy to 72 00:05:08.900 --> 00:05:14.140 find, make sure your website explain what you do clearly maybe make your 73 00:05:14.140 --> 00:05:17.830 pricing available so they can make that part of the assessment, make it easy to 74 00:05:17.830 --> 00:05:23.260 book in with a salesperson right there are tons of tools out there that enable 75 00:05:23.260 --> 00:05:28.120 you to book time with a salesperson yourself on a website. It's not 76 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.360 necessary to handle your email address and have an email exchange with someone 77 00:05:31.740 --> 00:05:35.750 that's just being kind of really like bio centric in that process. And from 78 00:05:35.750 --> 00:05:42.940 my perspective like from like if my target is revenue, I have to care what 79 00:05:42.940 --> 00:05:47.740 happens further down the line. So like demand catcher. Also, it's also like my 80 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:52.010 team's relationship with the Sdrs, how often we communicate, how aligned we 81 00:05:52.010 --> 00:05:55.480 are saying exactly the same stuff with the sales team. Like all of those 82 00:05:55.480 --> 00:06:00.450 things that just kind of like clear a path to becoming a customer all count 83 00:06:00.840 --> 00:06:04.920 Within that demand capture thing. That's like 101 stuff, right? This is 84 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:10.910 like, oh, it's so hard to do the one creation bit right, involves so much 85 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:15.750 customer understanding. It involves so much like tireless effort on getting 86 00:06:15.750 --> 00:06:20.770 your proposition, messaging bang on and testing in channels and working on your 87 00:06:20.770 --> 00:06:26.160 creative and all of that stuff to do all of that. And then let an 88 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:32.660 opportunity to have a new client that you could help grow their business slip 89 00:06:32.670 --> 00:06:38.140 because some of those demand capture channels or processes were sub optimal, 90 00:06:38.140 --> 00:06:43.450 is it's not good. Yeah. And I think that's that's something that you and I 91 00:06:43.450 --> 00:06:46.600 talked about offline recently and you had that experience and I think that's 92 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.570 why the customer experience is so important. Do you mind sharing what you 93 00:06:49.570 --> 00:06:54.000 shared with me about that experience you had? Yeah. I mean, this happens, 94 00:06:54.010 --> 00:06:56.770 this has happened to me multiple times, Right? And it probably happens to 95 00:06:56.770 --> 00:07:02.090 anyone who goes and buys B to be anything. Is one, is this example of, 96 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:05.700 okay, you have two choices when I go to book a demo on a website. I can even 97 00:07:05.700 --> 00:07:09.600 just pick a time right there as as it suits me. And because the tool will 98 00:07:09.610 --> 00:07:13.940 make it so so it suits the salesperson as well. Plus points. If you do some 99 00:07:13.940 --> 00:07:18.030 lead scoring in that as well. So that if I'm like high school for you, I 100 00:07:18.030 --> 00:07:22.100 bypassed SDR going straight through to a fantastic or you can get me to fill 101 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:25.100 in a form and then a few days later someone gets back to me and maybe we 102 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:29.380 have a meeting like that is just one example of an experience which still 103 00:07:29.380 --> 00:07:33.560 occurs and then you get into the into the south process itself. So you've got 104 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:39.240 one where given my role and the company that I worked for and the fact that I 105 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.770 do what I do, like I know when I'm I C. P. For a company when I'm on their 106 00:07:43.770 --> 00:07:49.630 website, just right, so if I my C. P. For their website and then I have their 107 00:07:49.630 --> 00:07:52.700 their product and I go through their sales journey. And the first thing that 108 00:07:52.700 --> 00:07:58.300 I have to do is to kind of explain to someone in a qualifying call, like why 109 00:07:58.300 --> 00:08:01.760 I'm almost like why am I good enough to buy your product? That's not a great 110 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:05.030 buying experience. So I've had it had experiences kind of recently either 111 00:08:05.030 --> 00:08:07.880 where like I've put in my email address in a demo form and someone hasn't got 112 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:11.400 back to me, it doesn't make sense. Or were actually the sales process has 113 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:14.900 been managed in such a different way. You start to start veering towards the 114 00:08:14.900 --> 00:08:20.690 cleaner easier process when we checked the other day. That might be kind of 115 00:08:20.690 --> 00:08:26.570 like the example I gave us if it's a bit like this, if you are interested in 116 00:08:26.570 --> 00:08:30.800 buying a tv and you knew which one you wanted and you went to the high street, 117 00:08:30.810 --> 00:08:34.260 imagine you go to the high street, went into a tv shop, you stood in front of 118 00:08:34.260 --> 00:08:38.500 the tv you want to buy, you have to wait 15 minutes when someone comes up 119 00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:41.750 to you to offer that tv to you or help you by. Actually they ask you if you've 120 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:44.410 got enough money in your pocket to buy it first and then they go and get 121 00:08:44.410 --> 00:08:46.750 someone else is the one that actually then runs the process and that you 122 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:49.770 purchase, you're not going to stand by that T. V. You're gonna get bored and 123 00:08:49.770 --> 00:08:53.110 walk off. And that's what happens in vita peace health processes. And that's 124 00:08:53.110 --> 00:08:56.480 why the one capture is so important. Like that's someone basically with the 125 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.420 checkbook halfway out their pocket, kind of interested in what you've got 126 00:08:59.420 --> 00:09:03.480 to sell and you made it hard for them to buy your product. It doesn't make 127 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:07.060 sense. So like, I mean, test, we've not got this perfect right? We're still 128 00:09:07.060 --> 00:09:10.770 working on it like this for endless optimization on on the on these 129 00:09:10.770 --> 00:09:14.570 processes to make them better. But that's the intention is basically 130 00:09:14.570 --> 00:09:18.040 almost like to create a great prospect experience because it's a bit of an 131 00:09:18.040 --> 00:09:23.610 indicator of what you're maybe we'll my view rightly or wrongly. It starts 132 00:09:23.610 --> 00:09:27.280 making me ask questions about what they're. Service experience is going to 133 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:32.030 be like if that prospect experiences a bit bumpy, that could be completely 134 00:09:32.030 --> 00:09:37.950 unfair. But that's the kind of the perception that can create. Hey 135 00:09:37.950 --> 00:09:42.620 everybody Logan was sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of GDP growth, 136 00:09:42.630 --> 00:09:46.260 you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show, but you may not know that. 137 00:09:46.260 --> 00:09:50.240 I also head up the sales team here is sweet fish. So for those of you in 138 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.190 sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to share something that's made 139 00:09:54.190 --> 00:09:58.770 us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the 140 00:09:58.770 --> 00:10:03.180 past few months and what used to take us four hours Gathering contact data. 141 00:10:03.190 --> 00:10:08.720 Now takes us only one where 75 more efficient were able to move faster with 142 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:13.600 outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. 143 00:10:13.610 --> 00:10:17.750 I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check them 144 00:10:17.750 --> 00:10:25.110 out at lead I. Q. Dot com. That's L E A D I. Q dot com. All right, let's get 145 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:32.260 back to the show. Yeah, I love that. I love that idea of hey you go to buy a T. 146 00:10:32.260 --> 00:10:35.820 V. And it's the same situation. I mean it's it's literally the same thing. You 147 00:10:35.820 --> 00:10:38.860 get bored, you get tired of standing there, you get frustrated and then 148 00:10:38.860 --> 00:10:42.140 you're probably not gonna go recommend that to your friends. You're probably 149 00:10:42.140 --> 00:10:44.830 not going to say, hey go to this tv store. I got great service, They're 150 00:10:44.830 --> 00:10:48.520 conceived in it. So that's great. And clearing that path is so important, 151 00:10:48.520 --> 00:10:52.240 like you said, and making it easy to see the prices making it easy on your 152 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.250 website, but not making it so difficult. Your customers shouldn't have to dig 153 00:10:56.260 --> 00:10:59.940 for what they're looking for. So, another thing that you and I talked 154 00:10:59.940 --> 00:11:04.650 about and this is another question I have for you is what are some things 155 00:11:04.650 --> 00:11:09.440 that marketers in this space tend to get wrong? And you and I talked a 156 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:13.310 little bit about kind of like overthinking organic on linkedin and 157 00:11:13.310 --> 00:11:18.660 things like that. Yeah, so organic Arlington is a interesting one, is 158 00:11:18.660 --> 00:11:23.110 something that I'm like relatively neurotic in my like personal, like 159 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:28.510 activities. I feel like we're talking about it. My little like B two B system 160 00:11:28.510 --> 00:11:32.960 Manchin, like echo chambers that exist within like it's like an answer to lots 161 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:37.180 of problems. But what I'm finding what what my my experience is actually, 162 00:11:37.180 --> 00:11:40.350 there's like this and things about it that could make it really challenging 163 00:11:40.350 --> 00:11:43.110 for some businesses, which would not make it an answer to all your problems. 164 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.920 Um and so and and and the kind of the lesson that I've gained so far in this 165 00:11:46.920 --> 00:11:50.660 is about it's actually quite hard to have validity with your target audience. 166 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:54.940 So if I look at the people, they're doing it really well, they're experts 167 00:11:54.950 --> 00:11:58.130 in the thing that they're talking about because that makes sense right? If 168 00:11:58.130 --> 00:12:01.510 you're going to follow someone as a thought leader or an influencer, you 169 00:12:01.510 --> 00:12:04.410 want to know that they know what they're talking about. And so that that 170 00:12:04.420 --> 00:12:07.640 initial thing of like if you want to use linkedin organic or whatever kind 171 00:12:07.640 --> 00:12:11.580 of organic channels, but that person needs to be a valid like spokesperson 172 00:12:11.590 --> 00:12:17.010 around that topic for me personally like my target audiences B two C. 173 00:12:17.010 --> 00:12:21.780 Marketers were marketers but I actually don't have that much validity because 174 00:12:21.780 --> 00:12:26.680 my area of expertise not all that relevant. And so the things that I can 175 00:12:26.680 --> 00:12:31.560 write about and do so with some knowledge to back it up, they're not 176 00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:33.930 necessarily things they're going to resonate with the target audience for 177 00:12:33.930 --> 00:12:37.460 the company I work for. That makes me even though I'm in the right department. 178 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.510 In theory, I'm not actually a good spokesperson on organic. Well that like 179 00:12:42.510 --> 00:12:48.110 finding that individual or who can do that is like thing one anything to it's 180 00:12:48.110 --> 00:12:52.900 like it's like a real They need to have the time and inclination which sounds 181 00:12:52.900 --> 00:12:56.210 like it should be easy but it's like a hugely time consuming activity to write 182 00:12:56.210 --> 00:13:00.080 the content, to engage with people to follow people commenting on different 183 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:04.500 people's things, like to learn how the algorithm works to get your head around 184 00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:08.020 like time of day. How many times does it matter if I go into the app like 185 00:13:08.020 --> 00:13:12.280 every 15? Because I've become obsessed by how many views my post has got and 186 00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:15.860 I've been is that affecting it things negatively looks like it kind of does, 187 00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:18.860 but I don't really know, you know, they're like all of these lessons, 188 00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:21.680 these are hugely time consuming. You need like an expert who's willing to 189 00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:25.850 invest like that if you don't have that within your business and like that's 190 00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:30.090 entirely possible that you could just not have that individual, then it's 191 00:13:30.090 --> 00:13:33.260 obviously not gonna be the channel for you just because of practicalities. 192 00:13:33.640 --> 00:13:36.920 Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think that's something that's really interesting 193 00:13:36.920 --> 00:13:40.980 because I think a lot of people are so focused on like this, you know, we have 194 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:43.330 to be on linkedin and everybody has to be talking on linkedin and it's 195 00:13:43.330 --> 00:13:47.130 something that our company has been doing lately too. We've been really, 196 00:13:47.140 --> 00:13:51.030 all of us have been talking on linkedin, we've been making a lot of posts 197 00:13:51.030 --> 00:13:54.340 recently and I think it's been really great for us. But I talked to someone 198 00:13:54.340 --> 00:13:58.010 yesterday, we were talking about how that might not be where your target 199 00:13:58.010 --> 00:14:02.480 audience is, which is another thing to touch on two because I mean, if you're, 200 00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:04.650 you know, if you're trying to reach me to be, then yeah, I mean they're 201 00:14:04.650 --> 00:14:07.860 totally going to be on linkedin, but if you're trying to reach like an engineer, 202 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:11.730 there are more likely to be on Reddit or or another platform like that. So 203 00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:16.460 it's not always the best place and it's not always the only place, you know? 204 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.350 Yeah, exactly, Exactly. Exactly. And that comes down to kind of like knowing 205 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:25.410 no, no, your customer and nowhere there playing. I mean like, like part of kind 206 00:14:25.410 --> 00:14:31.230 of like the job of selecting like a demand creation channel is like who, 207 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:35.610 who are my target audience and where do they already go on the internet? All 208 00:14:35.610 --> 00:14:39.650 right. Let's just go there building communities. If you can get it right, 209 00:14:39.650 --> 00:14:44.350 it's like gold. It's super hot, so much easier to 210 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:50.090 participate in a way that's appropriate in a community that already exists. But 211 00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:55.450 I think you're right. So if my company sold a B two B marketers gold, right? I 212 00:14:55.450 --> 00:15:00.220 would just ask to have like, can I have like an hour and a half a day to cut 213 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:03.720 out so that I will do this Lincoln thing because he's going to grow our 214 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:08.350 business and now listen, I have the ability to have people listen to me 215 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:13.750 because hopefully at least I know some stuff about kind of defeating the 216 00:15:13.750 --> 00:15:17.570 margin and that means that I can talk to people kind of like peer to peer. 217 00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:22.430 Yeah, I say like if you find that if you have that person great and your 218 00:15:22.430 --> 00:15:25.280 audience is linked it great. If there's somewhere else go somewhere else. But 219 00:15:25.290 --> 00:15:30.040 even then you're gonna need, like in that engineers scenario, the best 220 00:15:30.040 --> 00:15:33.770 people to do it would be your engineers. Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit 221 00:15:33.770 --> 00:15:38.900 about success in demand gen and a demand gen strategy. Sometimes this is 222 00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:42.590 a little bit difficult to measure. So I wanted to ask you, how do you measure 223 00:15:42.590 --> 00:15:46.820 success in a demand gen strategy? And what do you think some people tend to 224 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:52.240 get wrong here as well? Yeah, I mean how ultimate measure of success is 225 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.230 inbound source revenue. If that is where it needs to be. We're on quite 226 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:01.220 urban, it's almost true that no other metric that we might track higher up 227 00:16:01.220 --> 00:16:05.310 the final matters if revenue, if we're hitting the revenue number be 228 00:16:05.310 --> 00:16:09.280 interpreted. But there's like there is however long your sales cycle is 229 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:14.420 between kind of like the capture of that lead and hand over into the sales 230 00:16:14.420 --> 00:16:17.320 organization and when that revenue materializes. So you have to have 231 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.970 something a bit higher up that you can kind of, uh, you can use as a leading 232 00:16:21.970 --> 00:16:25.050 indicator of whether you're gonna hit that number. So we look at pipeline, 233 00:16:25.540 --> 00:16:31.120 pipeline generated, we look at meetings where we look at kind of like demo 234 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:35.820 request, essentially, uh, coming in, which is this like great measure of 235 00:16:35.830 --> 00:16:39.080 high intent lead. So if someone's coming to us and saying, hey, can I 236 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:42.890 talk to you about what you have to sell? That is a really good indicator of the 237 00:16:42.900 --> 00:16:46.810 demand creation work that we're doing is working. They also convert through 238 00:16:46.810 --> 00:16:50.080 the funnel better than anything else that we can put through. And then we 239 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:54.210 look at what we, what we call meetings book, which is essentially after 240 00:16:54.210 --> 00:16:58.620 whoever takes that demo runs that demo, it moves into the next stage was 241 00:16:58.630 --> 00:17:02.860 essentially like it's moving into the pipeline. So we have like to kind of 242 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.210 numerical targets, like the number of demo number of meetings and then we'll 243 00:17:08.210 --> 00:17:13.680 have like dollar pipeline. There are, there are a ton of other things that we 244 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:20.859 look at, like town metrics and website metrics and all of the rest of it. But 245 00:17:20.869 --> 00:17:26.089 those are the four things that I look at in my Salesforce dashboard. If I'm 246 00:17:26.089 --> 00:17:30.260 honest, like multiple times a day, probably more than I should. But those 247 00:17:30.260 --> 00:17:33.060 are the ones I really look at because those are the things they're like, are 248 00:17:33.060 --> 00:17:37.570 we across everything? If I stopped looking all the microscopic little bits 249 00:17:37.570 --> 00:17:40.560 of data that could send us off down the rabbit holes that potentially aren't 250 00:17:40.560 --> 00:17:44.170 helpful. Okay. At really high level are we trending in the right direction? 251 00:17:44.740 --> 00:17:48.170 Like if there were requests are going up, I have a high confidence that means 252 00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:52.160 pipeline and revenue will go up because because it has such a kind of strong 253 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.550 influence on the on those numbers. So those are the ones we look at as like 254 00:17:55.560 --> 00:18:01.000 the the the overarching kind of measures of success or like indicators 255 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:06.650 of success and then there's just a pile of other metrics that we look at which 256 00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:12.400 are more like are these channels working as expected? That's great. What 257 00:18:12.410 --> 00:18:16.780 are some specific tools or maybe advice that you would share with somebody who 258 00:18:16.780 --> 00:18:20.050 is implementing demand generation into their organization for maybe the first 259 00:18:20.050 --> 00:18:22.710 time? You know, maybe there are new business, maybe there are very, very 260 00:18:22.710 --> 00:18:26.000 small startup business um with not a lot of people on their team and they 261 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.790 need to implement these demand gen strategies. Um what's something that 262 00:18:29.790 --> 00:18:34.250 you would recommend or some advice that you would share? Yeah, I tell you don't 263 00:18:34.250 --> 00:18:39.000 actually need that many tools that you need. You need a Crm. If you haven't 264 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:42.560 got one ready right, you need some kind of crm to be managing a sales process 265 00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:47.110 you need. So I'd say you need some mechanism to send emails that is 266 00:18:47.110 --> 00:18:50.410 connected to that Crm and I would strongly recommend you keep talking 267 00:18:50.410 --> 00:18:53.440 about it is like make it easy for someone to book a meeting with the 268 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:57.410 sales team if you've managed to create inbound demand and like have analytics 269 00:18:57.410 --> 00:19:00.160 on your website and all that kind of stuff. But once you've got passed out, 270 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:05.050 like another tool, like it's not the next thing that I would do, Like I 271 00:19:05.050 --> 00:19:08.150 wouldn't then go, alright, yeah, we need a lead scoring framework. So they 272 00:19:08.150 --> 00:19:11.890 were like, you've got some other things that a bit more foundational that you 273 00:19:11.890 --> 00:19:15.960 need to do. So then point you kind of, rather than looking at another tool, 274 00:19:16.340 --> 00:19:19.400 you need to think about like what are you going to communicate into the 275 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.700 market and to know what to communicate into the market. You need to know who 276 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.630 you're gonna communicate it to and you kind of need to understand a bit about 277 00:19:25.630 --> 00:19:30.060 that day. So actually then like the next stage in demand generation 278 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.850 actually looks a bit like some product marketing fundamentals because that is 279 00:19:34.850 --> 00:19:38.940 the groundwork that makes the actual demand generation things that you might 280 00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:44.020 see when you're out into the channels work better and then you've got this 281 00:19:44.020 --> 00:19:46.950 kind of like the prospect experience stuff that was talking about. So it's 282 00:19:46.950 --> 00:19:52.240 like if you, if seriously, if you're that early and you should be working 283 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.090 out how you can like white glove, any kind of lead that's coming through 284 00:19:57.090 --> 00:20:00.590 through the Orig and give them a really good experience right through to 285 00:20:00.600 --> 00:20:05.340 customer experience because they're so precious When, you know, when you've 286 00:20:05.340 --> 00:20:11.090 got, when you've got less than 10 clients like and any another one, it's 287 00:20:11.090 --> 00:20:16.910 amazing. The 10% uplift, brilliant. Um, so like, so that's almost like the 288 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.940 things just like make sure that engine is clean, which is kind of somewhat 289 00:20:19.940 --> 00:20:22.740 relationships, it won't be much went, there might be much in the way of tech 290 00:20:22.750 --> 00:20:26.410 because if, if you are in that state and the volume is fairly life. But I I 291 00:20:26.410 --> 00:20:31.170 guess what I would stress is you can pile tech upon tech upon tech upon tech 292 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:37.260 and it's not actually going to make the demand gen activities work better like 293 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:43.420 oven in itself. It's like there are some just pure marketing fundamentals 294 00:20:43.430 --> 00:20:48.840 that will make it work better like having great messaging and having some 295 00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:53.530 really good creative that you've tested and you know resonates will have a much 296 00:20:53.530 --> 00:20:58.440 bigger impact than buying in some platform that does something that 297 00:20:58.450 --> 00:21:02.460 sounds cool, totally agree, that's awesome. Andy this has been wonderful, 298 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:05.260 thank you so much for coming on GDP growth and sharing with our audience. I 299 00:21:05.260 --> 00:21:08.800 know this has been really insightful for me, my career moving forward and 300 00:21:08.810 --> 00:21:12.540 hopefully our listeners games and value as well. Where can people find you 301 00:21:12.540 --> 00:21:17.200 online if they are interested in hearing more from you Lincoln Lincoln 302 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.970 is the best place. There are a lot of Andy Davis is on Lincoln but there's 303 00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:24.880 only one Andy Davis that works that attest to search for Andy Davis the 304 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:25.560 test your friend. 305 00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:30.600 Perfect. Thank you again so much for joining me here on B2B growth. No, my 306 00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:31.640 pleasure. Thank you for having me. 307 00:21:34.340 --> 00:21:38.020 One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of 308 00:21:38.020 --> 00:21:42.700 mouth works. It works really, really well actually. So if you love this show, 309 00:21:42.700 --> 00:21:46.620 it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. And if 310 00:21:46.620 --> 00:21:50.950 you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend meta, 311 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:54.590 I know I'll send you a copy of my book, content based networking, how to 312 00:21:54.600 --> 00:21:58.040 instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell phone number is 313 00:21:58.040 --> 00:22:07.050 40749033 to 8. Happy Texting. Yeah,