Sept. 27, 2019

#DemandGen 2: Stop Romanticizing Marketing: Find the Goal, Measure Results w/ Michael Wilk

In the 2nd episode of the #DemandGen series,  speaks with  at . Want to get a no-fluff email that boils down our 3 biggest takeaways from an entire week of B2B Growth episodes? Sign up today:  We'll never send you more...

In the 2nd episode of the #DemandGen series, Sheila Kloefkorn speaks with Michael Wilk at Clear Measure.


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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:05.440 Learn how to turbo charge your marketing results by building repeatable, scalable demand. 2 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:11.109 Jens systems from Sheila cleft corn, CEO of Keo Marketing and founder of the 3 00:00:11.230 --> 00:00:16.550 Business Owners Marketing Academy. See if you qualify for a complementary marketing road map 4 00:00:16.629 --> 00:00:26.780 for your business at Kaeo Marketingcom Audit. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:27.179 --> 00:00:31.859 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, 6 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:35.700 like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from 7 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:39.850 the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with 8 00:00:40.049 --> 00:00:44.729 professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales 9 00:00:44.770 --> 00:00:49.609 and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building 10 00:00:49.649 --> 00:00:53.799 the fastest growing BB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:57.600 I'm the founder Suite Fish Media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and 12 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.240 I'm also one of the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing 13 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.909 sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own 14 00:01:03.950 --> 00:01:07.709 business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to 15 00:01:07.750 --> 00:01:12.909 take over the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. 16 00:01:19.219 --> 00:01:22.620 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm your host for today's episode. 17 00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:26.540 I'm Sheila cleft corn, CEO of Keo Marketing, based in Phoenix. This 18 00:01:26.659 --> 00:01:30.859 is the second episode, Sod, of the Hashtag Demand Jin series and I'm 19 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:36.769 joined today by Michael Wilke, vice president of marketing and sales at clear measure. 20 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:40.810 Michael, how are you doing today? I'm doing very well. Thanks 21 00:01:40.849 --> 00:01:42.170 for having me. Shee that. I'm super excited. It's my first ever 22 00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:47.159 podcast, so awesome. Well, we're excited to have you on the show 23 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:52.519 today. The topic of that we're going to be talking about is integrated demand 24 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:55.799 generation and I know you've done that at a bunch of different companies. So 25 00:01:55.879 --> 00:01:59.239 I'm thrilled to have you on. But before we begin, would you tell 26 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.230 our listeners a little bit about how you are, a little bit about your 27 00:02:01.269 --> 00:02:06.790 background and what it is the clear measure does? So I'm currently the VP 28 00:02:06.870 --> 00:02:09.629 and marketing sales. Like you said, my background is always been marketing, 29 00:02:10.389 --> 00:02:17.219 sprinkled across startups and early stage companies, as well as try it in true 30 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:23.259 kind of static entities like AAA and southwest, where I work with their vacations 31 00:02:23.379 --> 00:02:27.939 brand. So always marketing, usually within cutting edge, more on the technology 32 00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:34.330 side, but also primarily be to be as well, and with clear measure, 33 00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:38.090 which I joined just a few months ago, their professional services it team. 34 00:02:38.969 --> 00:02:43.210 One of the reasons I joined them as their philosophy of actually helping other 35 00:02:43.289 --> 00:02:47.840 entities, as opposed to most consultants want to become a dependency for those entities. 36 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:53.000 So we focus on Microsoft Technologies, Dev off acceleration, software projects, 37 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.840 don't starts things along those lines. But it's a really excited adding company. 38 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:01.469 They be kicked off in Austin roughly six or so years ago, number one 39 00:03:01.509 --> 00:03:07.550 on the Austin's top fifty. So are growing exciting company and I'm at the 40 00:03:07.750 --> 00:03:12.590 stages of building out a marketing and sales infrastructure which I really, really love. 41 00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:16.979 That's exciting and I know you have a dynamic CEO at your company, 42 00:03:17.099 --> 00:03:21.659 Jeffrey Plermo. Do you want to mention a little bit about his background? 43 00:03:21.699 --> 00:03:28.889 To Jeffrey is a wellknown and technology industry. He hosts a podcast, as 44 00:03:29.009 --> 00:03:32.169 are debouts podcast, which you can find on our website. Webinars every week 45 00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:38.409 speaking engagements, authored several different books, created the first standardized guideline for dotnet 46 00:03:38.490 --> 00:03:46.840 Dev ops for Azure and he just he lives in breeze technology, in his 47 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:52.680 passion for technology and his passion for helping others. You know the the phrase 48 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:57.469 around the office and within the company has being of service to really see other 49 00:03:57.750 --> 00:04:02.150 people and teens be all they can be with their technologies and their development is 50 00:04:02.270 --> 00:04:06.349 just is fantastic and if you ever have an opportunity to listen to one of 51 00:04:06.389 --> 00:04:11.539 his podcasts or come across Jeffrey, I think you'll really enjoy what he has 52 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:14.699 to say and what you hear from them. Yeah, Jeffrey's very dynamic and 53 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:17.220 the two of you together are quite the duel. So we're thrilled to have 54 00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:19.939 the chance to work with you. And, if you know, Dev ops 55 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:24.529 is a pretty cool space to be in. For a lot of people who 56 00:04:24.529 --> 00:04:28.610 don't know what that is. That's really about how you modernize your software and 57 00:04:28.730 --> 00:04:31.689 especially if you're on a Microsoft Stack, that can be challenging. So to 58 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:36.449 have an organization like yours who can help folks at their companies really take it 59 00:04:36.490 --> 00:04:40.519 to the next level put it in the cloud with Azure, those kinds of 60 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:44.839 things are are really exciting and you're helping some of the world's largest companies do 61 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:48.720 that really impressive projects. You know, clear measure is a great, great 62 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:55.350 company found at clear Measurecom and so thank you again for being a part of 63 00:04:55.430 --> 00:05:00.709 this podcast. Today we're going to be talking about integrated demand generation and you've 64 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:02.389 done a lot of campaigns. You and I've worked together on a lot of 65 00:05:02.430 --> 00:05:06.819 different campaigns at different and so what do you think is the most important thing 66 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:14.060 for an integrated demand end campaign? I think for any campaign is understanding. 67 00:05:14.300 --> 00:05:17.060 What are your goals and what are you trying to achieve? People in marketing 68 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:23.649 we are creative, we are thinkers, we're planners and doers. You know, 69 00:05:23.769 --> 00:05:28.129 we run the gamut, but often times, unfortunately, sometimes we're not 70 00:05:28.209 --> 00:05:33.050 included or get as much attention in the business goals and business strategy development. 71 00:05:33.250 --> 00:05:39.160 In some cases, and and I'm shining more towards the early stage smaller company 72 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.079 endeavors, where it's like hey, we have this, let's sell it, 73 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.000 and so marping goes about. Well, how are we selling this? But 74 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.560 we don't really understand what the goals are. So I think when the first 75 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:53.350 things is what are we trying to achieve as a company, where we trying 76 00:05:53.389 --> 00:05:57.829 to go, and then break those things out, you know, into steps, 77 00:05:57.910 --> 00:06:00.949 into a little pieces, into little chunks. So we start to create 78 00:06:01.069 --> 00:06:05.620 your campaigns and particularly integrated to Manda Gen campaign, where you're across channels, 79 00:06:05.660 --> 00:06:13.620 multiple channels, integrating social through your sales team and how to, how can 80 00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:17.379 they implement social selling? But how do you leverage that across your thought leadership 81 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:24.250 and your content campaigns? You really need to break those down into little pieces 82 00:06:24.410 --> 00:06:29.689 and connect all those pieces so you can manage them and then understand is what 83 00:06:29.930 --> 00:06:32.480 we're doing. Does this achieve our goal? Does this get us to our 84 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:36.519 goal, and just kind of keep yourself focused on those lines. Yeah, 85 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:40.800 I think that's really important. Knowing what the goals for the company are, 86 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:45.399 but also the goals for your target audience. You know right, you know, 87 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:47.509 and them is important and being able to segment. I know you've you 88 00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:53.790 and we've had some real success by by really getting clear about those personas and 89 00:06:53.949 --> 00:06:58.750 segmenting the target audiences. And just like you were saying about Claire, measure 90 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:03.540 being of service, making sure that they're asking them to follow you, but 91 00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:10.300 that you're actually following your target customer and providing real value is critically important. 92 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:13.300 And that does bring up a good point, and that is that that I 93 00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:15.649 skip. Your company may have goals, but if you're not understanding of your 94 00:07:15.649 --> 00:07:20.209 audience, it doesn't matter what you're going might what to do. So that's 95 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:24.810 a good point, right, right. So in those campaigns, what are 96 00:07:24.850 --> 00:07:28.089 some of the channels that you find to be most effective in the be to 97 00:07:28.129 --> 00:07:31.680 be space for driving growth and the be to be space, it really is 98 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:41.439 the social aspect, the content marketing theme, subject matter, Expert Position Yourself, 99 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:46.149 as you know, that that trusted relationship, that trusted person, that 100 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:49.949 trusted consultant, that trusted advisor, those seem to work the best in the 101 00:07:50.029 --> 00:07:54.149 be to be world because, like whether it's be to see or be to 102 00:07:54.189 --> 00:07:57.670 be, everyone's online and everyone's searching. Well, if you don't have a 103 00:07:57.750 --> 00:08:01.100 good online presence, then they don't find you and then if you don't have 104 00:08:01.339 --> 00:08:05.420 good relationships, they may or may not trust you or be one of the 105 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:09.860 first ones to have a conversation with. So there's really a nwance to selling 106 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:15.250 nowadays in it it's different from five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen 107 00:08:15.290 --> 00:08:18.850 years ago, when you and I work together at profiles and you know, 108 00:08:18.889 --> 00:08:22.730 we built out this persaunas and put in a really good strategy and program there. 109 00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:28.040 It's different today in that there has to be more online touch. There 110 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:33.039 has to be more touched before you even talk to the customer. So you 111 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.360 know, social and the online world, Internet world, your website, all 112 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:41.029 that that goes in into it. The effort the people of the content. 113 00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:46.389 That's where I kind of put all my eggs in one basket. Now that 114 00:08:46.509 --> 00:08:50.350 doesn't mean that the eggs just stay there. I just feel like that has 115 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:54.429 to be the place that you up and you have really tip top before you 116 00:08:54.590 --> 00:08:58.019 start adding other layers and other channels to leverage those. Yeah, those are 117 00:08:58.059 --> 00:09:03.019 the baseline. So a clear measure. You guys leverage these webinars and these 118 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:07.580 podcasts a lot, which a lot of companies would feel like is new media. 119 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:11.809 Now Tell me how that works for clear measure as a part of the 120 00:09:11.929 --> 00:09:18.490 inbound marketing or clear measure we are this goes back to Jeffrey. Jeffrey loves 121 00:09:18.809 --> 00:09:26.360 to create content. He's doing Azure, the the PODCAST, they're doing the 122 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:31.039 webinars. Surely to convey information, to be of value to the audience. 123 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.960 So made it relatively easy for me to once I got started in the program 124 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.909 that we're now building out and just launching the new website and everything, to 125 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:43.190 really leverage the things he has in place. And I think I've mentioned to 126 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:46.909 you previously one of the hardest things for a company once they start going on 127 00:09:46.070 --> 00:09:48.990 this road is the content. And sometimes I think that's the easiest thing. 128 00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:52.259 We get this program in place, okay, we'll make some podcasts and will 129 00:09:52.299 --> 00:09:56.100 do so webinars and will write some blogs. Will you know, at the 130 00:09:56.139 --> 00:09:58.419 end of the day, you know actually doing it and then leverage in and 131 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:03.940 then having something that an audience would find value in. And Jeffery's been able 132 00:10:03.980 --> 00:10:07.289 to do that so easy. Unique case, because a lot of technical CEOS 133 00:10:07.370 --> 00:10:11.570 don't like to be in front of a microphone right. The fact that he 134 00:10:11.809 --> 00:10:18.450 is so prolific is actually a real benefit and he really understands that media right. 135 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.399 And if you don't have to have the CEO's don't you know, don't 136 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.440 put your head down and feel like it stuff that that you can do. 137 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.480 It's about consistency, it's about having a plan, it's about promotion. So 138 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.200 the PODCAST, he does one podcast the week. He invites guests the calendars 139 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:39.269 planned out and we do promotion to the current database that we have as well 140 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:45.029 as perspective database, and now that we're developing account base marketing program with Keo, 141 00:10:45.549 --> 00:10:50.379 we're leveraging we're going to leverage that content even more. The webinars. 142 00:10:50.379 --> 00:10:56.379 Again, they're consistent. They're consistent on a weekly basis. We do change 143 00:10:56.379 --> 00:10:58.179 the timing, you know, sometimes in afternoon, sometimes in the morning, 144 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:01.100 kind of switch out up a little bit for East Coast West Coast, but 145 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:05.169 those are consistent. And then we also monitor the topics that generate the most 146 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:09.769 activity, which the most registrants, which ones get the most attendees. So 147 00:11:09.889 --> 00:11:13.850 we do all of those things to make sure that we're providing to the audience 148 00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:18.480 something of value. So we seek their feedback. We have KPIS in place. 149 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.759 We monitor those Kpis to seeper meeting them and that's how we amend our 150 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:28.279 content. And also that point you're making about monitoring the progress is really important 151 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.480 and I know you're a numbers guy, which is part of what's made you 152 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.750 so successful, but can you just talk a little bit about what you think 153 00:11:35.830 --> 00:11:41.429 is important about that? So KPIS, you know, key performance indicators. 154 00:11:41.950 --> 00:11:46.230 The metrics that you were going to use to gage your success of your program 155 00:11:46.389 --> 00:11:48.740 of your campaign. There's tons of them out there and if you're a marketer, 156 00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:52.820 you you've heard all of them, and I think I googled a couple 157 00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:54.820 weeks I was google marketing metrics. I think there's a website that gave me 158 00:11:54.940 --> 00:12:00.220 like eighty eight different Kpis from marketing, which by no means should you have 159 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:03.970 eighty a kpis from marketing, but grab a couple, but they're the ones 160 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:07.610 that are important to you and to Your Business and then they give you an 161 00:12:07.610 --> 00:12:15.210 indicator of your progress consistently. Have to monitor yourself against these Kpis and it's 162 00:12:15.289 --> 00:12:18.360 to just make sure are you on path? Are you on plan? Are 163 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.320 you meeting the goals? This program this campaign that we're putting out is the 164 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.480 purpose to account base marketing rights, to warm them up so we can make 165 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:31.990 calls and and they want to take that call. And the topics that we 166 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:35.470 chose for a given month, how did that compared to another topic? So 167 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:39.110 these are all things that you can drown yourself in numbers, but you don't 168 00:12:39.149 --> 00:12:41.750 need to. You need to pick two, three, maybe five most different 169 00:12:41.789 --> 00:12:48.100 KPIS and you just monitor yourself against them. The other part about KPIS and 170 00:12:48.139 --> 00:12:52.500 data is the analytics part, and again don't take that as because a lot 171 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:54.620 of marketers aren't on the number side and then there's a lot of marketers who 172 00:12:54.620 --> 00:12:58.970 are. And if you're not on the number side, don't let analytics scare 173 00:12:58.009 --> 00:13:01.649 you. It's just analysis. Means what am I pulling from these numbers? 174 00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:05.769 I mean there when I took statistics back in college, one of the things 175 00:13:05.809 --> 00:13:09.850 I realized shortly in the professor reaffirmed when I raised my hand, was you 176 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:13.519 can pretty much say whatever it is. You can back up whatever your statement 177 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.480 is with the same amount of numbers. Was Statistics Right. You can always 178 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:20.600 kind of find a spin for it, but that's not what you want to 179 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:22.279 do for yourself. You want to look at the numbers and just what are 180 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:28.509 the numbers telling? You pay attention to from you know from this campaign how 181 00:13:28.549 --> 00:13:31.149 many came into all the way converted through, because at the end of the 182 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:35.309 day you want the company be successful, which generally relies on the company selling 183 00:13:35.389 --> 00:13:37.470 products. And there's a revenue number there, but there's so many things in 184 00:13:37.629 --> 00:13:43.259 between. But maybe a one who starts any sort of endeavor but doesn't have 185 00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:48.379 how they're going to measure that endeavor. I would always say do not kick 186 00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:50.860 that off. Just wait a second. We're in a situation like that now 187 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:56.490 where the company made an investment in a marketing initiative and they have a bad 188 00:13:56.529 --> 00:13:58.889 taste in their mouth because they feel like nothing came to that initiative. But 189 00:13:58.970 --> 00:14:03.330 at the time there weren't any metrics that were measured, so you can't really 190 00:14:03.769 --> 00:14:07.529 tell. So you just kind of set yourself up for second guessing and or 191 00:14:07.610 --> 00:14:11.840 failure if you can't kind of turn to the numbers and say this is what 192 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:15.639 happened. Yeah, and you need to do that consistently and do it as 193 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.799 a trend so you can measure, you know, week over week, month 194 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.679 over month, here over year to see if it's a seasonal blip or if 195 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:28.309 it's something that is really an issue and you know your keywords aren't working or 196 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.309 your social media isn't work in those kinds of things. I think that's that's 197 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:33.990 so, so important. My happiest space is when I have more in twelve 198 00:14:35.070 --> 00:14:39.659 months. Yeah, when you actually can do a trend, its right. 199 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:43.059 So, Michael, you've been doing this a long time. Can you think 200 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:46.299 of an example of when you might have failed and what you learned that could 201 00:14:46.340 --> 00:14:52.529 help others earlier on and a couple different engagements, and it came from what 202 00:14:52.649 --> 00:14:58.409 I was just talking about kind of not knowing what was I trying to get 203 00:14:58.929 --> 00:15:03.169 out of this initiative. You know, and involved. You know, the 204 00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:05.570 involved inbound campaign around, and this is prior to you. She less. 205 00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:11.759 I wasn't, but it was around inbound campaign and paid at wards and landing 206 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.519 pages and not really knowing what we were trying to achieve. Just really kind 207 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:22.750 of spending money and playing with Google to certain extent. Yeah, I seem 208 00:15:22.789 --> 00:15:24.830 to be having a good time with it and getting all these clicks and whatnot, 209 00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:28.230 but, you know, not realizing that. Wait, you mean, 210 00:15:28.429 --> 00:15:31.669 it costs me money when they click on it, but they didn't do anything. 211 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:35.549 Well, why didn't they do anything? I mean now I know there's 212 00:15:35.549 --> 00:15:39.419 a whole you know your landing pages and your conversions and do you test re 213 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:41.019 landing, fading your messages? Right, but just stuff we get into. 214 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:46.500 But early on, I guess just taking for granted and then also not understanding 215 00:15:46.659 --> 00:15:50.330 what was my purpose. Was My purpose to generate leads? Was My purpose 216 00:15:50.450 --> 00:15:54.409 to convert x number of clients. Was My purpose to meet a certain audience. 217 00:15:54.970 --> 00:15:58.330 They were looking for training, for example. Was My purpose convert people 218 00:15:58.330 --> 00:16:03.929 for a training event. So it was really not having kind of outlined all 219 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:07.759 those things, but having a budget. And it happened to be a place 220 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.720 where there's a couple places where I've had a pretty good, healthy budget, 221 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.720 but typically I've either been on a smaller endeavor or an early stage endeavor, 222 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.080 and so we're, you know, I don't almos say companies are frivolous, 223 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:21.549 but you know, we were pretty tight with things. So it forced me 224 00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:27.710 to become more with the word, not more intuitive, but more insightful really 225 00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:32.980 find out what we wanted to achieve. So the failures in the past have 226 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:36.539 been around trying to start something but not knowing where the end was going to 227 00:16:36.620 --> 00:16:40.539 be and not really kind of thinking it through or getting too caught up in 228 00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:44.299 the technical how do I get the campaign launched? As by doing, and 229 00:16:44.379 --> 00:16:47.769 what are we saying? Right, and and yeah, and also getting to 230 00:16:48.049 --> 00:16:52.570 complicated, trying to be burving. Yeah, right, not breaking things down 231 00:16:52.570 --> 00:16:56.330 in chunks. So yeah, there's a thing. I have it and everyone's 232 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:00.929 heard this, you know, being too cute. You can say things in 233 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:04.960 marketing you can do things a million one ways, and maybe you know a 234 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.880 million, or look just less than a million with work right, or maybe 235 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.880 only two or and there's a lot of different ways to do things. And 236 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:18.190 I learned early on also that sometimes it doesn't matter if it's a green or 237 00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:21.549 a blue button, but sometimes it really does. And so, but let 238 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:23.390 the met what we talked about earlier, that the data, let the feedback. 239 00:17:23.430 --> 00:17:26.710 Let the metrics tell you that. Let the audience tell you. I 240 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:30.980 love ebooks. Give me more ebooks. Right. Let the audience tell you 241 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:37.220 I click on ABC mouse, you know I don't. I don't click on 242 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:42.900 XYZ draft, whatever it is. Yeah, paying attention to at instead of 243 00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:45.890 was like, man, why isn't this work? And I put so much 244 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:48.450 money into this. Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's a really 245 00:17:48.490 --> 00:17:52.970 good insight and a lot of us as marketers, have had a similar kind 246 00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:56.089 of experience. But you've been doing this a long time and you're really focused 247 00:17:56.089 --> 00:18:02.559 on building an infrastructure based on on really knowing what you want to achieve and 248 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:06.279 really know your customers, which has been very, very powerful. So if 249 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.279 for those of our listeners who had maybe with a startup or a newer company 250 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:14.670 and they have a limited budget. which marketing channels do you feel like today 251 00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:18.509 are the most important for demension at a technology company? Social, social, 252 00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:23.750 social. Yeah, get your linked in profiles buttoned up. If you have 253 00:18:25.029 --> 00:18:29.140 salesperson or people, or you are the salesperson or you're the marketer who's part 254 00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:34.619 sales and part marketing and you and you haven't participated yet or feel comfortable with 255 00:18:34.779 --> 00:18:40.019 it, dive into the research. If you are going to do anything and 256 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:42.569 not spend any money or not have the ability to, it's social, social, 257 00:18:42.609 --> 00:18:48.690 social, it's Linkedin, it's your twitter accounts for profiles. What you 258 00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:52.130 do online. Make sure your website set up correctly and honestly. That should 259 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:56.400 be the case, even if you have money. That's true right, because 260 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.279 if you haven't done that stuff, the first things people are going to do 261 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.720 is Google you. HMM, if they get an email, they're going to 262 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.440 Google you or your company. And if what pops up, if it's nothing 263 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.430 right. And so if there's nothing that POPs up, that's just as bad 264 00:19:11.470 --> 00:19:15.069 as if there's something that POPs up and it's not what you wanted to see. 265 00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:18.990 When I was at profiles, I would do when we had our our 266 00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:22.950 conference events and we use we use consultants who resold our product, and so 267 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:25.819 we would help them with business tips. And one of the things I would 268 00:19:25.819 --> 00:19:30.380 do is social selling and tell everyone your linked in profile. That's your online 269 00:19:30.500 --> 00:19:34.420 brand. If you have facebook stuff out there, look at it and if 270 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:37.650 it's something you want want to potential client to see, hide it. Make 271 00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:41.170 it private herever it may be. Don't take it for granted. And I 272 00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:45.529 would also tell people that doesn't mean that you have to be buttoned up in 273 00:19:45.609 --> 00:19:49.130 a soon and tie. If we're in a Tommy Bahama shirt with a son 274 00:19:49.210 --> 00:19:53.759 set behind you, represent you and your brand by all means. It's just 275 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:59.279 remember that your brand. So it has to be social, and social is 276 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.880 so easy to take advantage of. It's so easy to get out there. 277 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.349 It might seem like there's a lot of noise, but you really just have 278 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:10.710 to bring it down to basics and participate in a couple of the major ones. 279 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:12.910 Don't worry. I when I gave this session a few years ago, 280 00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:18.150 I put all the logos up and think is over sixty or over eighty social 281 00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:22.220 entities that you could particulate, that you can participated you focus on Linkedin, 282 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:26.180 get your twitter straight. Maybe there's a couple others your facebook, but get 283 00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.299 those buttoned up and don't feel like you have to participate in everything. Yeah, 284 00:20:30.339 --> 00:20:34.059 yeah, I think that's such good feedback. You know that that you 285 00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:40.289 can overlook some basics when you're getting worked up about a marketing program and doing 286 00:20:40.369 --> 00:20:45.289 some of those fundamentals for all the executives in the salespeople in particulars really really 287 00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:48.089 important right. And you have you have to come to the table to make 288 00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:52.680 sure that when you're sitting in the room with with either presenting to the executives 289 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:55.440 or with the other executives, and they rate, they all will. One 290 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.680 will one, at least one will raise your hand and say, well, 291 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.480 what about this one? I see this one all the time. Rs Her 292 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:07.150 metrics and data come into play where you can say, while they're relatively new, 293 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:10.069 I'll check them out, or I've been the research and they don't deliver 294 00:21:10.190 --> 00:21:14.470 the type of return, and you need that to arm yourself against the ideas 295 00:21:14.549 --> 00:21:18.579 that just kind of pop out for because everyone is a marketer. Yes, 296 00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:23.859 yes, and you are really great at educating fellow company members about what's working 297 00:21:25.099 --> 00:21:27.819 and showing the data definitely. Well, we're getting to the end here. 298 00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:32.380 Do you want to make just two or three key points that you want to 299 00:21:32.420 --> 00:21:34.529 leave our listeners with? Well, I had a great time. This is 300 00:21:34.650 --> 00:21:41.009 my first so I hope I did well. So, Michael, I just 301 00:21:41.170 --> 00:21:45.170 really for me, my approach every day is being very logical, taking things 302 00:21:45.210 --> 00:21:48.400 step by step, making sure kind of where I'm known where I'm going with 303 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.039 the next steps are. Use data mind to my advantage. Don't let the 304 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:56.720 the best new shiny thing and marketing kind of pull you away from what you 305 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.240 want to do. Technology is fantastic. We can build all kinds of Whiz 306 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.990 Bang things, but at the end of the day, if if your audience 307 00:22:04.109 --> 00:22:07.789 will respond to you sending them a pencil, then you send them a pencil. 308 00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:14.910 It might be boring, but so it's just like the it's be pragmatic, 309 00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:18.900 kind of get your feet underneath you and don't be too overwhelmed by are 310 00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:22.940 everything, like I said earlier, social and different things. Just go about 311 00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:26.859 your job on a daily basis and, as a marketer, understand where you're 312 00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:30.490 going and with an integrated program it will come to you once you lay out 313 00:22:30.529 --> 00:22:33.170 all the basics. That's awesome. Thank you, Michael. This has been 314 00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:38.250 a really great conversation. I love your perspectives on integrated demand generation and the 315 00:22:38.329 --> 00:22:42.849 feedback that you have for both experienced marketers as well as newer marketers. If 316 00:22:42.930 --> 00:22:48.000 anyone listening has a follow up question or would just like to connect with you, 317 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.240 Michael, what's the best way for them to find you? They can 318 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:56.160 find me on Linkedin, but they can also just email me at Michael will 319 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.150 w I, okay, at clear measure, which is a clear Hashtag measurecom 320 00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:03.670 excellent. Thank you, Michael. Thanks again for being on the show. 321 00:23:03.710 --> 00:23:06.710 We really appreciate it. Tell you welcome. Thank you to you for having 322 00:23:06.789 --> 00:23:12.539 me. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 323 00:23:12.619 --> 00:23:15.980 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've 324 00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:21.660 started the BTB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our 325 00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:26.460 three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet 326 00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:32.490 Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three