Transcript
WEBVTT
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Learn how to turbo charge your marketing
results by building repeatable, scalable demand.
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Jens systems from Sheila cleft corn,
CEO of Keo Marketing and founder of the
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Business Owners Marketing Academy. See if
you qualify for a complementary marketing road map
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for your business at Kaeo Marketingcom Audit. You're listening to be tob growth,
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a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before,
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like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from
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the majority of our guests. That's
because the bulk of our interviews aren't with
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professional speakers and authors. Most of
our guests are in the trenches leading sales
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and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building
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the fastest growing BB companies in the
world. My name is James Carberry.
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I'm the founder Suite Fish Media,
a podcast agency for BB brands, and
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I'm also one of the CO hosts
of this show. When we're not interviewing
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sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear
stories from behind the scenes of our own
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business. Will share the ups and
downs of our journey as we attempt to
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take over the world. Just getting
well, maybe let's get into the show.
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Welcome back to be tob growth.
I'm your host for today's episode.
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I'm Sheila cleft corn, CEO of
Keo Marketing, based in Phoenix. This
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is the second episode, Sod,
of the Hashtag Demand Jin series and I'm
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joined today by Michael Wilke, vice
president of marketing and sales at clear measure.
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Michael, how are you doing today? I'm doing very well. Thanks
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for having me. Shee that.
I'm super excited. It's my first ever
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podcast, so awesome. Well,
we're excited to have you on the show
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today. The topic of that we're
going to be talking about is integrated demand
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generation and I know you've done that
at a bunch of different companies. So
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I'm thrilled to have you on.
But before we begin, would you tell
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our listeners a little bit about how
you are, a little bit about your
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background and what it is the clear
measure does? So I'm currently the VP
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and marketing sales. Like you said, my background is always been marketing,
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sprinkled across startups and early stage companies, as well as try it in true
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kind of static entities like AAA and
southwest, where I work with their vacations
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brand. So always marketing, usually
within cutting edge, more on the technology
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side, but also primarily be to
be as well, and with clear measure,
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which I joined just a few months
ago, their professional services it team.
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One of the reasons I joined them
as their philosophy of actually helping other
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entities, as opposed to most consultants
want to become a dependency for those entities.
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So we focus on Microsoft Technologies,
Dev off acceleration, software projects,
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don't starts things along those lines.
But it's a really excited adding company.
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They be kicked off in Austin roughly
six or so years ago, number one
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on the Austin's top fifty. So
are growing exciting company and I'm at the
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stages of building out a marketing and
sales infrastructure which I really, really love.
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That's exciting and I know you have
a dynamic CEO at your company,
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Jeffrey Plermo. Do you want to
mention a little bit about his background?
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To Jeffrey is a wellknown and technology
industry. He hosts a podcast, as
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are debouts podcast, which you can
find on our website. Webinars every week
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speaking engagements, authored several different books, created the first standardized guideline for dotnet
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Dev ops for Azure and he just
he lives in breeze technology, in his
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passion for technology and his passion for
helping others. You know the the phrase
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around the office and within the company
has being of service to really see other
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people and teens be all they can
be with their technologies and their development is
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just is fantastic and if you ever
have an opportunity to listen to one of
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his podcasts or come across Jeffrey,
I think you'll really enjoy what he has
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to say and what you hear from
them. Yeah, Jeffrey's very dynamic and
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the two of you together are quite
the duel. So we're thrilled to have
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the chance to work with you.
And, if you know, Dev ops
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is a pretty cool space to be
in. For a lot of people who
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don't know what that is. That's
really about how you modernize your software and
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especially if you're on a Microsoft Stack, that can be challenging. So to
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have an organization like yours who can
help folks at their companies really take it
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to the next level put it in
the cloud with Azure, those kinds of
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things are are really exciting and you're
helping some of the world's largest companies do
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that really impressive projects. You know, clear measure is a great, great
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company found at clear Measurecom and so
thank you again for being a part of
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this podcast. Today we're going to
be talking about integrated demand generation and you've
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done a lot of campaigns. You
and I've worked together on a lot of
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different campaigns at different and so what
do you think is the most important thing
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for an integrated demand end campaign?
I think for any campaign is understanding.
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What are your goals and what are
you trying to achieve? People in marketing
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we are creative, we are thinkers, we're planners and doers. You know,
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we run the gamut, but often
times, unfortunately, sometimes we're not
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included or get as much attention in
the business goals and business strategy development.
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In some cases, and and I'm
shining more towards the early stage smaller company
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endeavors, where it's like hey,
we have this, let's sell it,
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and so marping goes about. Well, how are we selling this? But
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we don't really understand what the goals
are. So I think when the first
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things is what are we trying to
achieve as a company, where we trying
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to go, and then break those
things out, you know, into steps,
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into a little pieces, into little
chunks. So we start to create
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your campaigns and particularly integrated to Manda
Gen campaign, where you're across channels,
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multiple channels, integrating social through your
sales team and how to, how can
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they implement social selling? But how
do you leverage that across your thought leadership
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and your content campaigns? You really
need to break those down into little pieces
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and connect all those pieces so you
can manage them and then understand is what
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we're doing. Does this achieve our
goal? Does this get us to our
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goal, and just kind of keep
yourself focused on those lines. Yeah,
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I think that's really important. Knowing
what the goals for the company are,
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but also the goals for your target
audience. You know right, you know,
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and them is important and being able
to segment. I know you've you
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and we've had some real success by
by really getting clear about those personas and
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segmenting the target audiences. And just
like you were saying about Claire, measure
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being of service, making sure that
they're asking them to follow you, but
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that you're actually following your target customer
and providing real value is critically important.
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And that does bring up a good
point, and that is that that I
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skip. Your company may have goals, but if you're not understanding of your
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audience, it doesn't matter what you're
going might what to do. So that's
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a good point, right, right. So in those campaigns, what are
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some of the channels that you find
to be most effective in the be to
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be space for driving growth and the
be to be space, it really is
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the social aspect, the content marketing
theme, subject matter, Expert Position Yourself,
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as you know, that that trusted
relationship, that trusted person, that
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trusted consultant, that trusted advisor,
those seem to work the best in the
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be to be world because, like
whether it's be to see or be to
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be, everyone's online and everyone's searching. Well, if you don't have a
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good online presence, then they don't
find you and then if you don't have
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good relationships, they may or may
not trust you or be one of the
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first ones to have a conversation with. So there's really a nwance to selling
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nowadays in it it's different from five
years ago, ten years ago, fifteen
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years ago, when you and I
work together at profiles and you know,
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we built out this persaunas and put
in a really good strategy and program there.
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It's different today in that there has
to be more online touch. There
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has to be more touched before you
even talk to the customer. So you
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know, social and the online world, Internet world, your website, all
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that that goes in into it.
The effort the people of the content.
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That's where I kind of put all
my eggs in one basket. Now that
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doesn't mean that the eggs just stay
there. I just feel like that has
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to be the place that you up
and you have really tip top before you
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start adding other layers and other channels
to leverage those. Yeah, those are
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the baseline. So a clear measure. You guys leverage these webinars and these
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podcasts a lot, which a lot
of companies would feel like is new media.
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Now Tell me how that works for
clear measure as a part of the
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inbound marketing or clear measure we are
this goes back to Jeffrey. Jeffrey loves
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to create content. He's doing Azure, the the PODCAST, they're doing the
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webinars. Surely to convey information,
to be of value to the audience.
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So made it relatively easy for me
to once I got started in the program
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that we're now building out and just
launching the new website and everything, to
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really leverage the things he has in
place. And I think I've mentioned to
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you previously one of the hardest things
for a company once they start going on
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this road is the content. And
sometimes I think that's the easiest thing.
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We get this program in place,
okay, we'll make some podcasts and will
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do so webinars and will write some
blogs. Will you know, at the
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end of the day, you know
actually doing it and then leverage in and
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then having something that an audience would
find value in. And Jeffery's been able
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to do that so easy. Unique
case, because a lot of technical CEOS
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don't like to be in front of
a microphone right. The fact that he
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is so prolific is actually a real
benefit and he really understands that media right.
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And if you don't have to have
the CEO's don't you know, don't
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put your head down and feel like
it stuff that that you can do.
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It's about consistency, it's about having
a plan, it's about promotion. So
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the PODCAST, he does one podcast
the week. He invites guests the calendars
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planned out and we do promotion to
the current database that we have as well
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as perspective database, and now that
we're developing account base marketing program with Keo,
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we're leveraging we're going to leverage that
content even more. The webinars.
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Again, they're consistent. They're consistent
on a weekly basis. We do change
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the timing, you know, sometimes
in afternoon, sometimes in the morning,
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kind of switch out up a little
bit for East Coast West Coast, but
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those are consistent. And then we
also monitor the topics that generate the most
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activity, which the most registrants,
which ones get the most attendees. So
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we do all of those things to
make sure that we're providing to the audience
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something of value. So we seek
their feedback. We have KPIS in place.
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We monitor those Kpis to seeper meeting
them and that's how we amend our
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content. And also that point you're
making about monitoring the progress is really important
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and I know you're a numbers guy, which is part of what's made you
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so successful, but can you just
talk a little bit about what you think
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is important about that? So KPIS, you know, key performance indicators.
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The metrics that you were going to
use to gage your success of your program
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of your campaign. There's tons of
them out there and if you're a marketer,
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you you've heard all of them,
and I think I googled a couple
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weeks I was google marketing metrics.
I think there's a website that gave me
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like eighty eight different Kpis from marketing, which by no means should you have
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eighty a kpis from marketing, but
grab a couple, but they're the ones
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that are important to you and to
Your Business and then they give you an
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indicator of your progress consistently. Have
to monitor yourself against these Kpis and it's
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to just make sure are you on
path? Are you on plan? Are
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you meeting the goals? This program
this campaign that we're putting out is the
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purpose to account base marketing rights,
to warm them up so we can make
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calls and and they want to take
that call. And the topics that we
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chose for a given month, how
did that compared to another topic? So
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these are all things that you can
drown yourself in numbers, but you don't
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need to. You need to pick
two, three, maybe five most different
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KPIS and you just monitor yourself against
them. The other part about KPIS and
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data is the analytics part, and
again don't take that as because a lot
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of marketers aren't on the number side
and then there's a lot of marketers who
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are. And if you're not on
the number side, don't let analytics scare
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you. It's just analysis. Means
what am I pulling from these numbers?
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I mean there when I took statistics
back in college, one of the things
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I realized shortly in the professor reaffirmed
when I raised my hand, was you
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can pretty much say whatever it is. You can back up whatever your statement
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is with the same amount of numbers. Was Statistics Right. You can always
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kind of find a spin for it, but that's not what you want to
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do for yourself. You want to
look at the numbers and just what are
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the numbers telling? You pay attention
to from you know from this campaign how
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many came into all the way converted
through, because at the end of the
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day you want the company be successful, which generally relies on the company selling
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products. And there's a revenue number
there, but there's so many things in
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between. But maybe a one who
starts any sort of endeavor but doesn't have
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how they're going to measure that endeavor. I would always say do not kick
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that off. Just wait a second. We're in a situation like that now
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where the company made an investment in
a marketing initiative and they have a bad
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taste in their mouth because they feel
like nothing came to that initiative. But
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at the time there weren't any metrics
that were measured, so you can't really
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tell. So you just kind of
set yourself up for second guessing and or
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failure if you can't kind of turn
to the numbers and say this is what
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happened. Yeah, and you need
to do that consistently and do it as
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a trend so you can measure,
you know, week over week, month
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over month, here over year to
see if it's a seasonal blip or if
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it's something that is really an issue
and you know your keywords aren't working or
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your social media isn't work in those
kinds of things. I think that's that's
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so, so important. My happiest
space is when I have more in twelve
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months. Yeah, when you actually
can do a trend, its right.
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So, Michael, you've been doing
this a long time. Can you think
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of an example of when you might
have failed and what you learned that could
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help others earlier on and a couple
different engagements, and it came from what
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I was just talking about kind of
not knowing what was I trying to get
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out of this initiative. You know, and involved. You know, the
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involved inbound campaign around, and this
is prior to you. She less.
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I wasn't, but it was around
inbound campaign and paid at wards and landing
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pages and not really knowing what we
were trying to achieve. Just really kind
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of spending money and playing with Google
to certain extent. Yeah, I seem
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to be having a good time with
it and getting all these clicks and whatnot,
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but, you know, not realizing
that. Wait, you mean,
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it costs me money when they click
on it, but they didn't do anything.
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Well, why didn't they do anything? I mean now I know there's
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a whole you know your landing pages
and your conversions and do you test re
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landing, fading your messages? Right, but just stuff we get into.
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But early on, I guess just
taking for granted and then also not understanding
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what was my purpose. Was My
purpose to generate leads? Was My purpose
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to convert x number of clients.
Was My purpose to meet a certain audience.
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They were looking for training, for
example. Was My purpose convert people
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for a training event. So it
was really not having kind of outlined all
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those things, but having a budget. And it happened to be a place
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where there's a couple places where I've
had a pretty good, healthy budget,
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but typically I've either been on a
smaller endeavor or an early stage endeavor,
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and so we're, you know,
I don't almos say companies are frivolous,
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but you know, we were pretty
tight with things. So it forced me
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to become more with the word,
not more intuitive, but more insightful really
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find out what we wanted to achieve. So the failures in the past have
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been around trying to start something but
not knowing where the end was going to
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be and not really kind of thinking
it through or getting too caught up in
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the technical how do I get the
campaign launched? As by doing, and
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what are we saying? Right,
and and yeah, and also getting to
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complicated, trying to be burving.
Yeah, right, not breaking things down
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in chunks. So yeah, there's
a thing. I have it and everyone's
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heard this, you know, being
too cute. You can say things in
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marketing you can do things a million
one ways, and maybe you know a
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million, or look just less than
a million with work right, or maybe
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only two or and there's a lot
of different ways to do things. And
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I learned early on also that sometimes
it doesn't matter if it's a green or
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a blue button, but sometimes it
really does. And so, but let
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the met what we talked about earlier, that the data, let the feedback.
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Let the metrics tell you that.
Let the audience tell you. I
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love ebooks. Give me more ebooks. Right. Let the audience tell you
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I click on ABC mouse, you
know I don't. I don't click on
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XYZ draft, whatever it is.
Yeah, paying attention to at instead of
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was like, man, why isn't
this work? And I put so much
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money into this. Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's a really
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good insight and a lot of us
as marketers, have had a similar kind
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of experience. But you've been doing
this a long time and you're really focused
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on building an infrastructure based on on
really knowing what you want to achieve and
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really know your customers, which has
been very, very powerful. So if
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for those of our listeners who had
maybe with a startup or a newer company
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and they have a limited budget.
which marketing channels do you feel like today
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are the most important for demension at
a technology company? Social, social,
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social. Yeah, get your linked
in profiles buttoned up. If you have
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salesperson or people, or you are
the salesperson or you're the marketer who's part
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sales and part marketing and you and
you haven't participated yet or feel comfortable with
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it, dive into the research.
If you are going to do anything and
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not spend any money or not have
the ability to, it's social, social,
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social, it's Linkedin, it's your
twitter accounts for profiles. What you
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do online. Make sure your website
set up correctly and honestly. That should
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be the case, even if you
have money. That's true right, because
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if you haven't done that stuff,
the first things people are going to do
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is Google you. HMM, if
they get an email, they're going to
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Google you or your company. And
if what pops up, if it's nothing
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right. And so if there's nothing
that POPs up, that's just as bad
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as if there's something that POPs up
and it's not what you wanted to see.
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When I was at profiles, I
would do when we had our our
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conference events and we use we use
consultants who resold our product, and so
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we would help them with business tips. And one of the things I would
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do is social selling and tell everyone
your linked in profile. That's your online
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brand. If you have facebook stuff
out there, look at it and if
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it's something you want want to potential
client to see, hide it. Make
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it private herever it may be.
Don't take it for granted. And I
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would also tell people that doesn't mean
that you have to be buttoned up in
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a soon and tie. If we're
in a Tommy Bahama shirt with a son
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set behind you, represent you and
your brand by all means. It's just
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remember that your brand. So it
has to be social, and social is
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so easy to take advantage of.
It's so easy to get out there.
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It might seem like there's a lot
of noise, but you really just have
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to bring it down to basics and
participate in a couple of the major ones.
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Don't worry. I when I gave
this session a few years ago,
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I put all the logos up and
think is over sixty or over eighty social
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entities that you could particulate, that
you can participated you focus on Linkedin,
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get your twitter straight. Maybe there's
a couple others your facebook, but get
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those buttoned up and don't feel like
you have to participate in everything. Yeah,
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yeah, I think that's such good
feedback. You know that that you
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can overlook some basics when you're getting
worked up about a marketing program and doing
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some of those fundamentals for all the
executives in the salespeople in particulars really really
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important right. And you have you
have to come to the table to make
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sure that when you're sitting in the
room with with either presenting to the executives
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or with the other executives, and
they rate, they all will. One
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will one, at least one will
raise your hand and say, well,
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what about this one? I see
this one all the time. Rs Her
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metrics and data come into play where
you can say, while they're relatively new,
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I'll check them out, or I've
been the research and they don't deliver
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the type of return, and you
need that to arm yourself against the ideas
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that just kind of pop out for
because everyone is a marketer. Yes,
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yes, and you are really great
at educating fellow company members about what's working
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and showing the data definitely. Well, we're getting to the end here.
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Do you want to make just two
or three key points that you want to
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leave our listeners with? Well,
I had a great time. This is
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my first so I hope I did
well. So, Michael, I just
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really for me, my approach every
day is being very logical, taking things
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step by step, making sure kind
of where I'm known where I'm going with
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the next steps are. Use data
mind to my advantage. Don't let the
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the best new shiny thing and marketing
kind of pull you away from what you
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want to do. Technology is fantastic. We can build all kinds of Whiz
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Bang things, but at the end
of the day, if if your audience
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will respond to you sending them a
pencil, then you send them a pencil.
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It might be boring, but so
it's just like the it's be pragmatic,
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kind of get your feet underneath you
and don't be too overwhelmed by are
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everything, like I said earlier,
social and different things. Just go about
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your job on a daily basis and, as a marketer, understand where you're
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going and with an integrated program it
will come to you once you lay out
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all the basics. That's awesome.
Thank you, Michael. This has been
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a really great conversation. I love
your perspectives on integrated demand generation and the
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feedback that you have for both experienced
marketers as well as newer marketers. If
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anyone listening has a follow up question
or would just like to connect with you,
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Michael, what's the best way for
them to find you? They can
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find me on Linkedin, but they
can also just email me at Michael will
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00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.150
w I, okay, at clear
measure, which is a clear Hashtag measurecom
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00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:03.670
excellent. Thank you, Michael.
Thanks again for being on the show.
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We really appreciate it. Tell you
welcome. Thank you to you for having
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00:23:06.789 --> 00:23:12.539
me. We totally get it.
We publish a ton of content on this
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00:23:12.619 --> 00:23:15.980
podcast and it can be a lot
to keep up with. That's why we've
324
00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:21.660
started the BTB growth big three,
a no fluff email that boils down our
325
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326
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