Transcript
WEBVTT
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Mhm
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Welcome back to be, to be growth. I'm
your host Benji block today. We're so
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excited to be joined by rex Roberston.
He is not new. Right to the, to the
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sweet fish community to BBB growth.
He's been here before, but there is a
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new development. He is now the VP of
revenue here at sweet fish. So rex,
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welcome back to be to be growth and
welcome into the sweet fish kind of
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community here. Yeah, no excited to be
a part of the community part of the
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show. Again, I was co host man back
before I think episode 1000 and we're
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in the two thousands now, so, pleasure
to be joining you, Benji. Maybe we need
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to dust off some really, really anxious
recordings for you. Right, Love it.
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Well, we're gonna jump into what I
think is gonna be a fascinating
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conversation today. One that is timely
and important. We're going to talk
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about eliminating distractions as a
marketing team and in the current
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landscape, I mean Phil talk about a
landmine of potential distractions.
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Right? So rex, how did you kind of
first come to realize like, man, this
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is something we need to tackle. And uh
when did this kind of become important
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to you? Yeah, I will say that
distractions professionally are rampant
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in every department, but perhaps
nowhere more so than in marketing. And
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so in some of my early marketing roles,
being asked to do things that couldn't
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be tied back to any logic. We couldn't
explain why were we doing these things
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And then additionally, just always
having this kind of open one side of
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your, one side of your face this ear is
always open and listening for new ideas
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from people who had various levels of
qualification to be throwing ideas and
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then those being acted on as if they
were like the gospel truth, Okay,
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somebody said we ought to do this, so
we ought to do this and now we gotta
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drop everything we're doing and start
over. And I remember the level of
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exhaustion and frustration that
marketers would feel in these scenarios
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and it's like it just burns you out And
that's the opposite of why we got into
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marketing. We got a market to do
amazing things to share stories and
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communicate with people in a way that
makes them magnetized. They want to
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come to you, they want to be excited
about what you're doing and when we're
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just creating to create, when we're
getting distracted by all kinds of new
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ideas, we can never really go as far
with what we want to build and the
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level of quality that we want to for
our audience. Yeah. For you
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specifically, when did you notice like
man, you ever have a time where it's
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like I am so distracted right now
because there's a million things we
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could do, right? There's always a
million things we could do in marketing
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give me an experience maybe for you or
you felt like, wow, I am distracted
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right now. Yeah, I'll tell you as the
head of sales and marketing at my
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second startup, right? I was a co
founder and in my partner, my co
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founder was always throwing new ideas
into slack and because he was the ceo,
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everyone thought that he meant do
exactly what I say, because I said it
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and all he wanted to do was drop ideas.
He wasn't trying to burn anybody out.
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But I mean, you couldn't even imagine
the number of times somebody dropped
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the project to start a project he came
up with and that was exactly the
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opposite of intention. He just wanted
to give us good ideas for future use.
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And so we just burned out super fast on
all these new ideas and we wasted a
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bunch of cycles on them. So for me that
was the real moment of okay, how do we
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push back against this problem? Not
this person because he wasn't the
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problem, it was that we didn't have a
good mechanism for determining what is
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the valuable work we're doing and what
open space mentally and time wise do we
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have for new ideas because you kind of
always have to stay open to new ideas.
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And I think that's why it's hardest in
marketing is if you're not looking at
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the market, if you're not listening
actively, you're gonna miss them
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opportunity, right? Not the club houses
of the world, are you going to miss the
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flash in the pan, but like you're gonna
miss a major channel or a major market
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opportunity, you should be grasping at
quickly. So you kinda have to keep your
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ear to the ground. But that for me was
the moment that I realized, okay, we're
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gonna kill ourselves over this problem
because this guy is not gonna stop
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giving great ideas or you know, a mix
of mediocre and great ideas, but we
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can't drop everything every time he has
a thought and having that. I mean, you
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want that person on the team, You want
the person that's constantly dripping
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ideas and you don't want to limit them
completely to be like, okay, we got to
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just stop, We don't want this anymore.
Right? So finding that balance is
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critical and so what have you found to
kind of be that better way? What
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started to be like, okay, we could try
this and maybe you found some some
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secret there. Yeah. So there's
definitely a couple of secrets that
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I've been slowly uncovering like an
archaeologist. Like there's, there's
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something deeper than what I've
understood so far that I'll continue to
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develop. But one of the big things for
me was determining what was the value
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of marketing and each of the companies
I've worked at where is the highest
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order of value that we can provide to
the company. So my last company we had,
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we had a very specific hierarchy of
needs. And so we would, we would lay
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out that hey, the very best thing we
can do is help a customer buy more from
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us ideally if a new project comes along
and we're working on all this great
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stuff. If something comes along, we're
gonna help a customer by more. That is
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inherently more valuable than trying to
get strangers to care about something
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new. We're saying in a platform where
we're barely making a dent. So we had
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this hierarchy and it went from helping
current customers buy more down to
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helping acquire ideal new customers
down to helping us acquire, you know,
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good new customers down to converting
an audience into actual leads and then
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all the way down to the bottom, which
is trying to get strangers to pay
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attention to us and a lot of people
think that the value of marketing is
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getting strangers to pay attention to
us. Some companies, if you have a
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specific role of like if your demand
gen or if you have a very specific
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function absolutely all day and night,
that's what you eat, sleep and breathe.
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But for us is like a small marketing
crew. We really couldn't look at it
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that way. So we had to say, okay, if
somebody comes along and they want to
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buy more, but they are not enabled with
the resources and materials or events
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that they need to support that action.
We're gonna give them probably 20% of
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our time. Yeah, right. And we might
prioritize if there's an ongoing need
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will re prioritize next quarter, but
we're gonna keep those quarterly goals.
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We're gonna focus on this. We used okay,
ours. You would focus on quarterly
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goals and would leave open that 20% of
flex time really, it's almost like a
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hierarchy of needs. I mean, okay. Or it
ends up defining like what's most
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important to us, right? And then these
ideas kind of get filtered through this,
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this is what's most important and this
is what's most needed. Yeah. What were
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some of the results that you started to
see as you went from this like and
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almost flying by the seat of my pants.
Like, here's all these different ideas.
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Let's try each one to okay, no, we're
going to actually start to prioritize.
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I will tell you everyone's happier
regardless of the marketing outcomes,
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which were really, really, really
important. The business outcomes are
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critical. Everyone on the team was
happier everywhere that we've deployed
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that that methodology of like actual
prioritization and then having
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somewhere to put good ideas, which is
the other thing that we didn't touch on
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is missing that you need to have
somewhere to put good ideas and come
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back to. But everyone has been happier
and we're able to live the mantra that
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I've always believed but hasn't always
been the case, which is, there are no
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emergencies in marketing. We're not a
heart transplant surgeon. We don't do
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that stuff. We're just trying to get
people to pay attention and to buy
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stuff from us and it should be much
less of a hair on fire running around
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like a crazy person because that's just
not the function that we serve in the
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world. And that's good. We should know
what function we serve and so everybody
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is more calm. We're able to accomplish
those big goals because we're not also
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taking into consideration every other
single idea. We have a place to put
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them when we set our goals again we
revisit them. And if something really
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comes up that's massively critical to
help move the needle, we know how to
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prioritize how we can say great, it's
going to move the needle on, getting
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more strangers to pay attention to us
but that's not going to be something we
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do this quarter and just having that
muscle of saying not now but thank you
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is critical for marketing leadership.
Hey everybody Logan with sweet fish
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here. If you're a regular listener of
GDP growth, you know that I'm one of
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the co hosts of the show but you may
not know that I also head up the sales
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team here at sweet fish. So for those
of you in sales or sales ops I wanted
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to take a second to share something
that's made us insanely more efficient
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lately. Our team has been using lead I.
Q. For the past few months. And what
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used to take us four hours gathering
contact data now takes us only one
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where 75% more efficient. We're able to
move faster with outbound prospecting
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and organizing our campaigns is so much
easier than before. I'd highly suggest
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you guys check out lead I. Q. As well.
You can check them out at lead I Q dot
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com. That's L E A D I Q dot com.
Alright, let's get back to the show.
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Okay. So I think people would easily
buy into the premise of this episode,
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right? Because everyone's bombarded,
everyone's got, you know, someone on
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their team that's coming up with ideas
and you're going, OK, I understand what
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you're saying, rex, I understand the
why behind what you're saying, but
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honestly where I wanted to get more
granular and where I really want to
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lock us in over the next few minutes is
on how, what you just kind of started
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to transition us into that space
because how we execute this is really
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all that matters. So where did you
start to keep track of these ideas?
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Let's start there. So it happens in a
couple of ways. So one we had an
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ongoing projects board. Right? So we
used monday dot com here. Sweet fish.
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We use Asana. Love both products. It's
not about the product about the process.
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So having a place where you can put
them and then some sort of like section
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that you can drop them down to for like,
hey this is our backlog and then hey,
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this is on the table for next quarter
and then hey, this is this quarter.
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It's kind of moving those things up as
you determine their value. And then
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literally telling people thank you so
much for that idea. I just put it on
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our monday or asana project. We'll
definitely take a look at this the next
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time we review these ideas, I gotta ask
you a follow up, how varied were these
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ideas? Oh, all over the map, All over
the map. But I think there are certain
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ideas that are gonna come up really
often. So let's say we're going to
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launch a new website for sweet fish
media dot com. Right? We're going to
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say this is, we're starting from
scratch. There's gonna be a whole bunch
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of new ideas on this website. First of
all, we're going to develop that
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without a ton of all of the team member
input and all the customer input
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because we don't wanna have to expose
everyone to the project on an ongoing
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basis. But once we launch, we want to
respect that. There are people who know
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more than us about certain aspects of
how the website should run. They might
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know more about what our customers need.
Our customers might have some feedback
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about, hey, I don't know where to get
this information. So our customer
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success team is gonna be gathering
great data. So we're going to have
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instead of just a general project board,
we're gonna have one specific board
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that is for the website. So we'll say
all right, we're gonna take all of your
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ideas about the website and put them on
a one specific place where we are
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evaluating the success of the website
and continue to evaluate new ideas for
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how the website functions. That's
probably the most popular place to run
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into new ideas. It's like, hey, what if
we had a page for this? Another one is
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sources of materials like, hey, what if
we had a pdf that talked about that and
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then getting really clear on, Okay, do
we really need that? What function does
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that serve? How scalable is that? Is
that something that everyone needs or
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just one person? But putting them all
in there, there's all kinds of ideas.
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But I do split it out if there's really
common stuff that comes up a lot, it
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gets its own place to live. What about
recurring times to sort of generate
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some of these ideas like when were you?
Because we might be running through a
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process and we have this, you know,
I've even slapped you in the last month
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of us working together and like I got
this idea, I'm gonna slack rex right
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now. That's different than like an
ideation process where we're going, we
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want to think of new things. Right. So
when were you kind of having time to
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talk about this stuff. Yeah. So we had
a couple of mechanisms and my last
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company, I actually learned this from
someone else from the Head of marketing,
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a company called Alice, she talked
about these concepts called inspo sesh.
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So my marketing team without me there
as the leader to kind of distract or
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maybe do too much. Like over handed
guidance, they would host these
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meetings where they would come up with
a problem they were trying to solve for
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like, hey, how do we get more
attendance at our events or how do we
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get more people to to accept our offers
or how do we get more X? Right. And
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they would just go off on these
brainstorm sessions for a full hour and
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nothing was wrong. It was kind of yes
and classic improv approach? And they
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would come up with all these fantastic
ideas. So we did have a monthly
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mechanism for that, that was recurring,
right? And it was hosted by a different
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person every time she had three team
members, each one got to rotate who was
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hosting. So no one person dominated the
conversation too much. But then we also
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have those one off, like any idea is
just going to go on the board and then
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on our weekly marketing meeting, we
would revisit and say, okay, is there
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anything critical here? No. And then in
quarterly planning, we go back to all
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those ideas and say, okay, what's the
inspiration here, what are the themes
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that we're noticing? What are we
missing? And we'd pull up that board
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and look at those things.
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I love that. Because having those
mechanisms in your calendar to revisit
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ideas is so important. You can uncover
an idea in a second but then not have
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the proper kind of like runway right to
make an idea actually work. And so
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having time to really think was this
pros and cons of this idea. And if we
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execute well on it, what's the R. O. I.
Such an important part to deciding what
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to actually do and put your time into?
Okay, so tips and tools for how to do
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this, right? I mean, you mentioned it's
not about the actual like monday dot
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com vs. Sonic conversation. But are
there some other things that we should
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be thinking through that could be
helpful. Yeah. Part of the process that
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we haven't touched on that I think is
really essential is communicating the
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value order to everyone else in the
company. So a big part of what I do is
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I share with the company. Hey,
marketing is working on X. And here's
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what we think of the value of Y and Z.
And A and B. And here's the order that
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they fall in. So if you're gonna come
up with ideas focus mostly on X.
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Because that's the most valuable thing
for us, right? So we give them that
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order of value so that they know why we
said no to something at the very bottom
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of the totem pole. Yeah. You know what,
That's a great idea. We'll put that on
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the list and no, we're not going to
action that right now. And they don't
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feel bad. It's not like they don't
think I'm a valuable member of the team.
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It's more like, okay, well that's not a
critical priority for them at this
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moment. So you've got to educate, you
have to reiterate that at least every
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quarter. That's just a valuable note to
be sharing with the entire company. So
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when you have an all hands are like a
quarterly review, share it with the
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team and then certainly celebrating
when someone else's idea comes up and
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marketing is a success or even if it's
a failure, if we executed against it
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and we can share that somebody else
brought us that idea, It's really
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powerful. But from a, like a tips or
maybe the tools that I would use,
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certainly some sort of form or
submission process that's formalized.
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Like, hey, if you have an idea for
marketing, drop it in the general slack
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or the marketing slack or throw it in
this form right here for marketing
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ideas and then it all flows into one
place and there's someone responsible
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for capturing that. That's the other
thing. I think teams mrs like, hey,
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what was that idea that the CFO put in
slack like six months ago, you guys
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remember that and it's not anywhere
because it lives in this place. That's,
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it's like a news feed? It's just
constantly spinning. So somebody being
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responsible for taking those out,
someone has to go all the way back
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through slack. Find that one message
from six months ago. Yeah. So on an
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ongoing basis have somebody who knows,
okay, if a new idea pops up in the
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marketing channel in slack, I've got to
put that over in a sauna. I love the
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idea of prioritizing at it like an all
hands. Just communicate. Sometimes we
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know what's going on in our silo. I
would say often we know what's going on
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in our silo and we don't know what's
going on in others and we don't
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communicate what we would like from
other people, which often is ideas
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right? Because that they have fresh
perspective that we can gain from and
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no experiment is totally a failure
because we're learning from all of this
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stuff and so sharing that at a meeting
like that is vital and really important.
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Anything else you would say as we kind
of start to, to wrap this conversation
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up rex Yeah, it's definitely a
behavioral issue that comes from the
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top down. Also say like if you model as
a, as a marketing or revenue leader, if
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you model bad behavior here, if you're
setting everyone else's hair on fire
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all the time, you're the problem. So I
have to be really good at not setting
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someone else's hair on fire and saying,
hey Benji had this crazy idea for me to
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be growth show, why don't we go do X.
Like how quickly do you think you can
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pull that off? It's more like, okay, I
have an idea, I'm gonna bring it up in
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my one on one with him and we'll
probably throw that onto our board for
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consideration at the revenue team
meeting next week and accepting that if
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it's, if it's not something that's
going to move the needle on that top
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priority of value, that's okay, let's
talk about it when it's an appropriate
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time. So modeling that behavior as a
leader is critical and just
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reemphasizing, I do love using the
phrase, there's no such thing as an
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emergency and marketing. Yeah, we just,
we don't have emergencies. People
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aren't bleeding out on the floor in
marketing, it doesn't happen. I love
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that too. You've said it several times
offline and then in this episode and
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people can really take that and run
with it. And also if everything is
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urgent when it's coming from the top
down then nothing is, and we will
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easily know right as a company, oh,
that's just the way they're wired is to
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communicate, everything is urgent. And
so once in a while an idea comes along,
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we go, man, we want to do this right
now, we need to implement and then it
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makes that experience more fun. People
are more bought in because this doesn't
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happen every day. And so having in mind
where we have these conversations is
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vital. I'm taking a lot away from this
conversation with you rex wrote down
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several things. Always have a
whiteboard, always have my mark already.
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And uh, I'm thinking about having an
ongoing project board in a section to
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drop things into maybe to talk about
later. I'm thinking about having an
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inspo sesh, right, I love that idea.
Just a monthly recurring meeting where
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we're throwing out ideas and then we're
prioritizing those. And then also it's
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just prioritized communication and in
all hands, sort of meeting and and in
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that space as a marketing team going,
hey, here's what we're focused on here
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is what we are prioritizing over the
next quarter, over the next however
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many weeks and we would love your ideas
and and having a way to filter those.
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Having someone that's responsible for
those, That's kind of the key takeaways.
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This that's very practical. What we can
do this week, this month, things we can
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actually apply that will make our
marketing better rex. Thanks so much
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for taking time to be with us on B2B
growth today. How can people connect
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with you further? Yeah, I love linkedin.
That's a place where I spend the most
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time on social say it's actually the
only channel I use on social for now.
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So linkedin dot com. I'm rex by Burston
last name is real tricky. B I B E R S T
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O N and otherwise Sweet Fish media dot
com. I'm gonna be all up in that
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website. Love it. Yeah. And connect
with me as well. Benji block on, linked
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in. We would love to have conversations
with you guys about marketing, business
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life. Always ready to connect, Hey,
stay in touch with us. You can
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subscribe to be to be growth wherever
you're listening to this episode and
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we'll catch you again soon. Keep you in
work that matters. Mhm.
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At Sweet Fish, we're on a mission to
create the most helpful content on the
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internet for every job function and
industry on the planet for the B two B
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marketing industry. This show is how
we're executing on that mission. If you
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know a marketing leader that would be
an awesome guest for this podcast.
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00:19:44.090 --> 00:19:47.640
Shoot me a text message. Don't call me
because I don't answer unknown numbers
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00:19:47.650 --> 00:19:54.140
but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8.
Just shoot me their name may be a link
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to their linkedin profile and I'd love
to check them out to see if we can get
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them on the show. Thanks a lot