June 8, 2022

Forget "Product-First". Become an Audience-First Company, with Dan Sanchez

In this episode, Dan Sanchez borrows another concept from the startup world to uncover why audiences grow. He takes the popular company methodology of "product-first" and goes one step further and applies the thinking to audience growth.
You'll learn...

In this episode, Dan Sanchez borrows another concept from the startup world to uncover why audiences grow. He takes the popular company methodology of "product-first" and goes one step further and applies the thinking to audience growth.
You'll learn about:
The pros and cons of being a "product-first" company
How starting a company with an audience-first mindset works better.
Practical steps to become more audience focused with your company
Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:24.440 Hey friends, welcome in. Excited today to share with you an episode from 3 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:28.559 another one of our sweet fish podcasts, attention, and the host of that 4 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:33.200 show, Dan Sanchez, you will know very well as he was a host 5 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:37.000 here and you definitely still hear his voice from time to time on be to 6 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:44.000 be growth. But attention was started out of this realization and this passion that 7 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:49.799 without attention, our marketing actually flat lines, our business could can go belly 8 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:54.280 up. And with whether we say it or not, attention is like this 9 00:00:54.359 --> 00:01:00.719 oxygen that were hoping for and we're trying to get the right kind of so 10 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:04.280 it can often feel like there's not enough of it, that we don't know 11 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:08.599 how to get attention and that you have to pay a high price for it. 12 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:15.280 But maybe there's a way to actually attract a consistent stream, and that's 13 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.959 Dan Sanchez. That's his pursuit in this podcast, is to have conversations and 14 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:23.719 to give some thought provoking ideas around how to build an audience and how to 15 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:27.079 get attention. And so today what I want to do is want to share 16 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:34.640 an episode called forget products become an audience first company and you're going to learn 17 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.959 the pros and cons of being a product first company, how to start a 18 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:41.959 company with an audience first mindset. That could really, I think, work 19 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:46.879 better and then also, Dan, provide some practical steps just to becoming more 20 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:52.400 audience focused right now in your current company. So some really good takeaways here. 21 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.280 Wanted to remind you of one housekeeping item before we jump in. We 22 00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:00.200 are running an audience survey. We would love your input and if you go 23 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:05.879 to be tob growth podcom, you're going to be able to just, I'd 24 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:08.719 say three minutes or less, fill out the survey have your voice be heard. 25 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:14.319 It helps us pick topics for future episodes, decide who we want to 26 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:17.199 have as guests on future episodes and just a general direction of the show. 27 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:20.919 How are we doing? What can I be doing better as a host? 28 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:25.639 I would love to hear your voice and get your feedback again. That's be 29 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:32.280 tob growth podcom. All right, let's jump in to today's episode. Forget 30 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:40.599 product first, become an audience first company with Dan Sanchez. Welcome back to 31 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:45.759 the attention podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez with sweet fish in today we're going to 32 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:50.199 be stealing yet another concept from the starter world to help us improve our audience 33 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:54.520 growth. That is the product first company, and in this episode I wanted 34 00:02:54.520 --> 00:03:00.919 to throw out the idea of an audience first company to start. Let's quickly 35 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:05.400 recap, though, what it means to be a product first company. It's 36 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:09.840 a reaction to the sales driven company, which has been most companies throughout history. 37 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:15.439 Right. Every company wants to make money, every company needs to have 38 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.840 some revenue going, so they look to sales and they've looked to marketing, 39 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:23.039 working together to drive new users, to drive new sales of new product, 40 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:30.800 new acquisition. But the product first company emphasized instead the product over the sale. 41 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:35.360 Let's make the product so good, they said that it will market itself. 42 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:42.000 It optimizes for products usage and engagement. And it makes sense because if 43 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:45.919 you're getting new sales all the time, but people try your service or product 44 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:50.240 or Sass or whatever it is and try and say, uh, it's okay, 45 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.960 they're probably going to move on, they'll probably forget about you and they'll 46 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:57.599 probably never buy again, even for just a C plus experience. So the 47 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:02.680 product first movement has been fantastic because it's because it says, let's make something 48 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:09.400 remarkable, so that not only do we retain our users longer, making more 49 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:15.319 money, but those users are more likely to become raving fans sharing the product, 50 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:19.120 making it so much easier to grow. Now, naturally, the freemium 51 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:23.800 SASS model has been the pioneer of this movement. We think of a few 52 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:28.720 examples, like mail chimp, who of who were early to adopt like making 53 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:30.800 it easy to send out an email newsletter and then putting in little kinds of 54 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:36.000 little delightful things in it that just made it fun to use, because before, 55 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.680 and I don't know if you can remember this, like making an html 56 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:43.600 email was a freaking pain. Mail chip made it easy and they made all 57 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.920 kinds of little illustration and copy thing copywriting decisions in the product to just make 58 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.360 it fun. So not only did it become hard, but it actually became 59 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:56.279 easy and fun to use, and I was a big reason why male chimp 60 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:01.439 was able to grow. A less used option is a college by the name 61 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:05.560 of Western governor's University. The reason why I know about it was because I'm 62 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:12.600 an alumni of the college. They spend hardly any money on marketing because all 63 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:16.040 their marketing comes from the alumni. Like I'm talking about it right now, 64 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:20.879 and it's because they focused on building an awesome product. They focused on building 65 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:25.439 something people would want to talk about. And the thing that Wgu does better 66 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.720 than anybody else is creating a competency based program which means essentially, if you 67 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:32.800 know the material, you can essentially test through or quickly jump to the papers 68 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.680 that you need to write in order to test out of every class, or 69 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:39.120 not test out, but work your way out of every class. So a 70 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:42.000 class could take a day, it could take a week, it could take 71 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.879 two months if you don't know the material, allowing you to go as fast 72 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.000 as possible, and the faster you go, the less it costs. Actually 73 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:51.240 went through my whole bachelor's degree in eight months and only paid about on fourteen 74 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:55.879 hundred bucks, with some help from the pail. But you hear things like 75 00:05:55.920 --> 00:06:00.240 that and you're like, Oh crap, I paid fifty grand. So when 76 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:02.920 you share this with other people, all of a sudden the value proposition just 77 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:06.560 starts to look really good right, and that's a product driven model. It's 78 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.560 a great thing. But today I want to explore a different concept, one 79 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.120 we can take from this awesome model of being a product driven first company and 80 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:21.759 question if there's maybe a better model. I'd like to call an audience first 81 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:26.560 company. Now I think there's room for both the play. I think you 82 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:29.720 can have a product driven company. I think you can actually also have a 83 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:34.519 audience driven company. Let's look at some of the comparisons I'll make in order 84 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:39.639 to make the case. One thing I've noticed with product first companies is they 85 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:43.199 tend to get out of the building a little bit too late. There's a 86 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:46.000 lot of product first companies out there that we never hear about. We only 87 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.000 hear the success stories of the drop boxes and the mail chimps, but there's 88 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:55.399 a lot of product first companies that never make it because they focused all in 89 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:00.000 on the product and they never actually talked to the end user until it was 90 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.120 too late. They invested too much of their time, their energy, pop 91 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:09.480 potentially lots of VC funds and or if they did get out there and finally 92 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:13.519 got a little something going, they never talked to the audience enough, so 93 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:18.959 they never really developed an intimacy and a really strong understanding of what their target 94 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:24.399 audience like, what their life is like, what they think, what they 95 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.040 feel, what keeps them up at night, what they wish could be what 96 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:31.319 they'd haven't even considered that would excite hate them because they don't spend enough time 97 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:36.800 with the people. Not Audience First Company is focused primarily on the people, 98 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:41.360 because the whole goal is not to sell them something, but just to capture 99 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:43.959 their attention. And the only way you're going to capture their attention is by 100 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:49.360 having a deep understanding of what they think and what they feel and what they 101 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:54.839 want out of life. Or is specifically in the little corner of life that 102 00:07:54.839 --> 00:08:00.399 you're trying to capture their attention in. May Be related to their career, 103 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.720 may be related to their job, may be related to their finances, may 104 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:09.040 be related to their nutrition, whatever it is, you want to intimately understand 105 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:13.720 how they think about that area of their life. With an audience first company, 106 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.120 in building an audience before you even build the product, the go to 107 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:24.279 market is actually remarkably faster right because if you have an audience you can build 108 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:31.440 rapid feedback into testing your product because you have thousands of people, maybe more 109 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.120 tens of thousands, over a hundred thousand people, who are willing to give 110 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.559 you feedback on any product idea you come up with, and it's built in 111 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:45.240 marketing. An Audience Focus Company doesn't have to beg for attention from publications. 112 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:50.000 The publications comes to you. There's a reason why you're attracting an audience and 113 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.440 if you're attracting a crowd, usually the media entities in the industry are curious 114 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.440 to see what you got going on. So one of the things I learned 115 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:00.720 from Chris Walker this last year is he's growing an audience and seas forget. 116 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.960 Pr will comes to you if you have an owned media entity, if you 117 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:09.000 have at tension, the media will come to you and they will publish your 118 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.919 story. Another thing is an audience first company only has to pay for advertising 119 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:18.240 when the price is right because they don't depend on advertising. They're not addicted 120 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.600 to facebook ads or Google ads or whatever the paid media of the day is. 121 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.480 They don't have to pay for it, they already have it. Now 122 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.559 I don't I'm not saying paid media is bad. Paid media's fantastic. It's 123 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.240 a great way to grow an audience, but you're not dependent on it if 124 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.720 you already have your own audience. And I think my favorite part about an 125 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:46.279 audience first company is that it's not dependent on the product. What company can 126 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.679 say that what company can say look, we don't need this product, we 127 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.799 have this massive audience and we can just launch a new product. Not Very 128 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:58.679 many, but that is something that is more valuable than even like a solid 129 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.960 productt going forward, because if you have a lot of attention, you can 130 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:07.320 come up with new products and tell you find one that really hits. It 131 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:11.480 makes it so much easier to launch a product that it almost thinks it almost 132 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:18.039 makes the product first focus look vulnerable. So two examples of an audience. 133 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:24.960 First Company is sweet fish for starters, the company that I represent, being 134 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:28.840 a BDB PODCAST agency. A lot of our growth comes from our own POD 135 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.519 CAST, be to be growth and hopefully soon this podcast. A lot of 136 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:39.039 it comes from the audience that we've developed on Linkedin and social media. If 137 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.480 it weren't for those things, sweet fish wouldn't have the product that does today 138 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.679 and honestly, if our agency went away, we would still have the audience 139 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:48.360 to be able to market something to we could come up with a SASS product, 140 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:54.000 we could come up with more resources. We have an audience in order 141 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.759 to talk to and actually make things better and better or to launch new products. 142 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:00.879 To another one that comes to mind and is talked about on Linkedin all 143 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:05.000 the time is refined labs. Chris Walker is a very strong personal brand with 144 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.879 the massive audience. If Chris Walker launched a new product offering, I'm pretty 145 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.960 sure it would go well and if it didn't, he'd be able to iterate 146 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.399 very quickly because of the feedback of his devoted audience. So how do you 147 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:24.960 become a more audience focused company? Here's three ideas to get started. First, 148 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.480 if you want to be audience first, then it has to be a 149 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.399 strategic priority. It has to come from the top. We have to have 150 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.879 buy in from leadership in order to make this change, because the whole company 151 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.279 has to be around it in order for the company to be audience first. 152 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:45.720 If you want to actually play and be like a media company, yet come 153 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.320 up with products like a product focus company. If you want to walk and 154 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.720 talk like a media company, then you need to have an orientation like a 155 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:56.840 media company. Number two is you need to prioritize more of your marketing budget 156 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:03.000 just to audience growth. Just us towards the content development, just towards promoting 157 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:09.080 the audience channels, just towards conversion rate optimization to drive people down the funnel 158 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:11.960 to becoming a subscriber. Yes, you need your own funnel just for your 159 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:18.320 audience growth initiatives. And lastly, become obsessed with your target audience. You 160 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:24.039 need to be in constant conversations, both in person conversations, or zoom at 161 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:31.600 least, and on social having engaging conversations daily, hopefully, but even weekly 162 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:35.159 would be better for some companies. That way you're always in tune with what 163 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:41.399 the audience is thinking, what they're fearing, what's priority for them, and 164 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:46.080 you can take those insights and turn it into better content and, of course, 165 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.759 use it to inform your products. Thanks for listening. Since you've made 166 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.399 it this far, I'd like to ask for one favor. If you could, 167 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.639 please just leave a rating for the show, whether it's on apple or 168 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:03.799 spotify, which now has ratings. Praise God, every single rating apps be 169 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:07.799 tob growth. Is brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. 170 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:11.399 Here at sweet fish, we produce podcast for some of the most innovative brands 171 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:16.320 in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos, linkedin content, 172 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.159 blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite 173 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:31.440 show. Want more information, visit Sweet Fish Mediacom