Transcript
WEBVTT
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Mhm
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Welcome back to BBB Growth. I'm dan
Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and I'm
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here with Casey Maxwell who is the
executive director of marketing at
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Ramsey Solutions or one of a few
executive directors. Right, so we've
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got a number of them there. Casey,
Welcome to the show. Thanks thanks for
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having me. I know in the past few years
team that Ramsey team has really been
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scaling from a few 100 team members to
just over 1000 now and with plans to go
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like to the moon probably to 2000. I
know you guys are building a whole new
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building things are going up for team
Ramsey and that means change. So I was
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excited to talk to her Casey today as I
know there's had a lot of changes
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within the last two years. I know the
pandemic has accelerated some changes
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going on recently, especially with your
essentially a proliferation of brands
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that you've had before and websites
that you guys have had. So before we
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jump into like what's going on now and
where you guys are going in the future.
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I wanted to learn more about what you
guys have done or where you guys were
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with the amount of brands and websites
you were managing and kind of what
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you've done recently with them. Yeah,
the interesting thing, so I've been,
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I've been at Ramsey for about five
years and I can say the most consistent
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thing at Ramsey has been changed. So if
if you look at at what Ramsey solutions
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was 25 years ago. Dave it was Dave with
a small team, they had a radio show,
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they had a book and they had a class
and they expanded some of the services
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over time, over those next 10 to 15
years. But it's really been in these
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last 5 to 7 years that it really has
exploded. So when I, when I joined it
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was, it was a little under 500 team
members. Like I said, we're now over
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1000. We have the number of brands and
services that we've begun to offer.
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Just over that time Has been, it's
almost been 150% increase. Uh, and it's
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funny because when you look at it, a
lot of people will know us for one
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specific thing, maybe it is the book or
the class or the radio show, but the
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number of services that we provide
across money and across things like
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marriage and mental health and career
were just, were just exploding. And
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it's, it's a really fun time to be part
of that sort of growth. That's really,
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really accelerated how many, just to
give people a sense of what, like how
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many things you guys got going on? How
many like profit centers does Ramsay
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currently have going on? Well, we've
been consolidating those for a while,
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but if you, if you look back, there was
10 to 15 profit centers across the
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company and we've consolidated a good
number of those over the past the past,
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actually a few months and few years,
but it's, it's amazing, it's amazing
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how many different pieces the company
itself, it's always had this sort of
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entrepreneurial bent. So uh teams
within, we would have these little
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startups that just happened within the
organization and it's a small team that
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that come around an idea and begin
pushing it to get A P. N. L. And to be
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able to grow this. And so we had those
things springing up all over the place
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Over the past, you know, 7, 8 years and
we've started to consolidate those and
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saying, Okay, these are hitting, but
what would it look like for all of
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these to be together? What what could
we push with with a consolidated effort?
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It makes a lot of sense. I mean with
the, I know you guys launched entre
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leadership like a while ago, I remember
first reading that when I got
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introduced to Ramsey is kind of about
that time and so you were like, yes, we
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want to have people that are equally
entrepreneurial but also leaders
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because we don't need them to go like
crazy all over the place. We need them
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to kind of set goals and milestones and
shoot for those goals at the same time,
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but we want them to invent new stuff.
So it makes sense that you kind of
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created a environment of
entrepreneurship and created all these
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new skews to sell, right, and you had a
lot of attention, you had a radio show
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that's being syndicated lots of places
that probably lots of eyes and
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attention to sell new stuff, but now
you have a lot of brands to deal with.
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And I know working with companies that
can become kind of confusing, right?
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Like who's responsible for this product?
Who is this brand? How do we type?
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People don't even realize this is a
Ramsey brand. How do you, how do you
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deal with that? I've worked at some big
enough companies to know that it can
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become confusing to have all these this
proliferation of different identities
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and brands and different, sometimes
they're in the home website. Sometimes
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they all have their separate websites,
you launch a blog, you're like, okay
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crowd, where does that go? Does that
does that sit on the home brand? Or
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does it, does this new brand need a
twitter account? Right. You just have
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all these pieces everywhere. So what
did you guys do to start cleaning that
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up recently? Well, when, when you look
at our company, our company, the
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products that we offer, the services
that we offer, the shows that we put
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out? We are a trust brand, you you're
not gonna buy any of our books, you're
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not going to listen to any of the
advice that we have or you're not gonna
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take any of the recommendations that we
offer. If you don't trust us and trust
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is not an easy thing to, to have or to
get in the market place, you've got to
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really earn that and Dave earned a lot
of trust with people, one, he was
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consistent, two people were not
disproving this baby steps to seven
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baby steps that we that we've put out
there and so he's got all of this time
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and trust built and all of these new
brands that were continually being spun
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up didn't have that trust, a lot of
them were starting from zero, we would,
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we had every dollar budget and unless
you knew Dave and knew that we said you
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know you need to give every dollar a
job, every dollar a name, you're not
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going to connect those those two brands.
And so we were going back to zero every
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time we would launch a new brand and we
said that you know that's that's not
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scalable for the long term, you know
you bring up, do we need a twitter
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account, do we need all of this stuff?
We started going down that path which
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led to 23 different websites across the
organization and a bunch of Twitter
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accounts and a bunch of instagram
accounts and and we said this is not a
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scalable future. Just looking at our e
commerce platform, having Five, stores,
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if you think of all the skews that are
in those, think each of that every time
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you had a skew your doing it eight
times and managing across eight
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different properties and it just, it
just wasn't scalable. And so we said
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that we have to figure out that, but
even even before we got into that um
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this, this conversation falls into what
we call succession planning. So as you
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know, Dave, Davis is kind of the heart
of the company. He started it and he's
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a personality, he's written books, he
did live events, but he's not gonna be
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here forever, right? He's not going to
leave the company unless he's forced to
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like in the future, right? He said he's
going to stay on the radio show until
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he stops making sense and we're gonna
have to like yank him off. So he's not
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planning to go anywhere but in the
future, he wants the company to outlast
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him. He knows there's a lot of families,
a lot of people that rely on Ramsey for
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their livelihood and that the stuff
that we're doing the way that we're
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helping people that needs to continue
beyond him. And so if that's going to
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happen, we've got to figure out a way
where Dave is not the connective trust
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that runs through all of our brands. We
need a brand that's going to connect
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all of this stuff together and we
needed to figure out how to get these
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experiences and these brands all to, to
sound the same and worked together. I
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mean it makes a lot of sense. Whereas a
lot of legacy brands, it felt, I felt
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like personal brands were like a big
thing when people just often like maybe
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like 100 and 250 years ago? People
often named the company's after
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themselves, right? And then that kind
of went away in the Mad Men era when we
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were coming up with different names for
things. But I almost feel like there's
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a swing back to this personal brand
thing because again, there's a
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proliferation of brand. So people that
the pendulum tends to swing. Ramsey is
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definitely one of those early adopters
of leading with the personal branding
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with a radio personality like his and
like a thought leadership that he has.
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It just makes sense. It works. It's
easier to build trust that way. So it
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makes sense that you're trying to
consolidate brands a little bit around
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that Trust. It's interesting. You made
a point about like a trust brand and
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I'm like, wait a second. Like aren't
all brands equated with trust, right?
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You could say like there's might be
check like a, like a new thing of candy
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or gum at the checkout aisle, which may
not have any trust has zero brand. It's
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some, it just has a small value
proposition. It promises. Uh, I don't
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know, it's like a five hour energy
knockoff, but it's cheaper than five
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hour energy. You pick it up, you go,
you get the caffeine rush, whatever. So
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not a lot of trust there, but you would
also say that that doesn't have a brand,
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right? So are all brands, trust brands,
how do you differentiate between a good
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brand and a trust brand? It's a it's a
really good question. Trust, when it
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comes to brand, I agree that in any
brand, any time you're going to buy a
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product, you have a level of trust and
there's a level of commitment and
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expectation with that. So when I go to
a fast food place, I don't necessarily
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have to have a lot of trust there.
Right? So I can go in and say it's
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going to be a burger, it's going to be
fries. I don't have, I don't have to
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trust that this is going to be the best
burger I've ever had or that this thing
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is going to change my life, so I'm not
going to pay that much and I'm not
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going to expect that much. But when you
look at the things that we do, we have
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a process to say, we're not gonna put
anything out there that's not going to
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help people. And if if you're going to
do something that is going to change
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your life, you have to have a lot of
trust in the person offering that to
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you before, you're going to do it. So
maybe like if we if we didn't have a
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lot of trust, we could probably sell a
lot of books. We could probably have
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people sign up for a lot of stuff, but
for people to actually do it and it to
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be successful because once you start
getting in there, that stuff is hard,
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right? I want to go spend a bunch, I
want to spend money on whatever I want.
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You know, you need to budget this way,
I want to put a bunch of stuff on
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credit cards. No, you need to actually
not have credit cards. Well that sounds
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weird if I don't trust you enough to
believe that even though that sounds
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wrong, but I'm gonna trust you and
actually do it and get the results that
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that comes from it. Like if we don't
have a lot of trust people aren't gonna
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take the leap to do the weird stuff and
if they don't take that leap, they're
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not going to have the awesome results
that are going to come from, from doing
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that weird stuff. I mean that makes
makes a lot of sense. You're asking
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people to go counter culture, you know,
you're fighting against, but that's
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also kind of what makes a strong brand
right, is to have, is I find that
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strong brands actually pick a fight
with something, right? Brand can almost
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be established by its villain, right?
Where is a hero without a villain? If
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you don't have a villain, you probably
don't have a hero, there's gotta be a
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bad guy somewhere. So I actually think
that it's probably often missed in a
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lot of branding conversations. I think
Ramsey's is essentially the debt
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industry, right? Is that, is that the
main villain? We, we have a lot of
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villains out there. We just released a
documentary about the student loan
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industry and the way that that has
basically become this darling that
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everybody thinks, oh this is good debt,
but that's actually a villain for what
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it's doing to your future. And so I
100% agree that a brand is really
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solidified when it knows its villain.
That was one of the best when when
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story brand first came out, it didn't
have that villain component to it and
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and Donald Miller went in and added,
you know, you've got to figure out who
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the villain is that is, is attacking
your hero so that you can be the guy to
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guide them out of that. So being very
clear on what you're going against is
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important, how you tell people about
that. That's that's a nuance of of the
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marketing. But yeah, being very clear
is really important.
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So what does, what does the brand
strategy look like now for Ramsey? Are
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you throwing Ramsey on the front of
everything? Like how are you
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consolidating how you explain all your
different products and properties? Yeah,
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we're slowly walking into that a lot of
it. There is a is a good deal of, we
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need to add Ramsey to that. So Ramsey
every dollar Ramsey financial peace. If
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you look at our subscription now is
Ramsey plus we've consolidated
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something's under what we're calling
Ramsay trusted, which was our endorsed
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local providers and smart vester. So we
are adding Ramsey, there's there's
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things that we're doing. So all of our
videos online start with our block. R R
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Ramsey are it's not as as simple as
that, but that's that's one of the
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visual things. You need to start
hearing Ramsey over and over and over.
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Because when you think of consumers,
just in general, when when you think of
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a brand, How many pieces of information
of a brand are you you going to keep in
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your mind if you have 37 brands, are
you expecting people to understand all
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of those brands? Remember all of those
brands categorize all those brands or
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do you want them to remember one thing
so that when they hear it attached to
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other things, that trust is going to go
to those other things. So if you heard
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Ramsey and you build trust around that
and then you heard endorsed local
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providers, your question is, well, what
has endorsed local providers? Who's
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endorsing them? What why do I care
about that? But if you hear Ramsey,
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you've attached some trust to that and
then you hear Ramsey trusted local
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providers, you're like, oh, oh, okay,
these, these are trusted by Ramsey and
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I trust Ramsey. So I'm going to trust
them. So a lot of our strategy is how
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how do we connect that and there's, yes,
adding Ramsey. But then the way that we
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talk about things, we, we want to be
consistent about how we talk about
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things across our property. When we
look at our websites, we want to make
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sure we will talk about this in a
minute. But we consolidate them all
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under one U. R. L. But that you could
take a bunch of colors of plato and
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smash them together and they're still
going to be a bunch of different plato
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pieces together just in one ball. But
we needed to figure out how how does it
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actually become one brand? And so when
you go to the home page and you go to
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um one of our brands and then you go to
another brand, you don't feel like
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you're on a completely separate website.
So there's a there's an audio, there's
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a written portion of it. There's a
colors that we do. You know, even down
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to button colors as they go throughout
our website. Every website had
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different buttons, right? Different
shapes, different colors. That simple
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thing of making this connected tissue
that goes throughout is extremely
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important for making that consistent
brand experience for customers. And
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it's not an easy decision, right? I
mean it takes weeks, weeks sometimes of
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all these all day meetings of debating
back and forth what we're gonna do,
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even from the top level of, I don't
know you guys probably had this
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conversation of uh that's usually the
three part like branded house or house
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of brands, right? I think every brand,
every market has had this branding
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conversation like which one do we want
to go to or do we want to do the one in
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between? That's the endorsed brand? And
it kind of sounds like you've landed
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essentially in that middle ground of
endorsed brand, kind of like a Mario,
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it's a good example where they'll have
courtyard by Marriott, right? It's
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almost like you have these sub brands,
but then it's always endorsed by Ramsey.
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Now, I'm sure you have some purely
Ramsey brands too, right? But then you
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have a lot of separate brands and they
might just be products, but essentially
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like entre leadership is more than just
a product. So it's a massive property
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in between, Right? Um so you guys have
stayed clear from the P and G. Model,
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which is kind of where you were before,
you had a bunch of different sub brands
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and they were Brandon dealt with
differently, correct, correct. You hit
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the nail on the head. We made the
decision, we're not going to be google,
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right? So we're not gonna be google
maps, google sheets, google docs. So
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we're not gonna be Ramsey debit card,
Ramsey debt class, right? We're not
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going there, but we're not going the
PNG route where you don't really know
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what PNG is and you only know the sub
brands, we do fall somewhere in the
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middle and a lot of that is we've kind
of got tier one level brands and then
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we've got sub brands that fall
underneath that. So when you think of
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uh entree leadership, you'll see Ramsey
Entree leadership, when you think of a
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product, like I said every dollar,
you'll see Ramsey every dollar, but a
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lot of that is dependent on kind of the
space. So sometimes that means we got
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some big words, you want to throw
another word on top of that, like
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that's that's not gonna work, you're
not gonna see that in the app store
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where it's like Ramsey, every dollar
budgeting to like We've got to, we've
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got to consolidate that some way. So
some of that is based on is based on
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space and availability. But yeah, we
we've spent the architecture of putting
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all of this stuff together. It's been
going on for a while. I mean this
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conversation started at least 24 months
ago from a, how do we consolidate all
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of these brands and it's an ongoing, we
have a what we call a branding
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committee that meets every week and we
not only review those things, discuss
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those things, but we also look at what
are the new products and services that
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we have coming out, how does that,
where does it fit into the brand
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architecture overall, does this need a
logo, does this need to fall under this
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logo, how do how do all of these things
fit together? So it's something that
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wasn't necessarily actively managed
from a global perspective? We were
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always having those conversations from
an individual product or even
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individual brand line? But looking at
it from the global perspective, we've
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we've been so pleased about the way
Work that's been done over the past 24
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months where it all starts to feel
together and that that handoff from one
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brand to another to another, uh it's
getting better, it's definitely not
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there, but it's definitely headed in
the right direction. So how do you
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decide if you want to start a new
initiative to sell a product? Maybe
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like your your B two B product that you
sell, you sell your your software
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package and content to HR directors,
right? Who kind of package it as a
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benefit? Yeah. Smart dollar, smart
dollar. I know Sweet Fish is probably
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gonna be looking at signing up for that
for that sometime, right? Yeah, I can
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connect you with someone, just let me
know. I think we're already in
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conversations, I can't remember, I'm
not in nature, so I'm not I'm not the
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guy in direct conversation but I'm like
I know that we've talked about this
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before, the leadership team like this
thing but let's say like you want to
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start a property around HR but Ramsey
is not known for HR. Ramsey is known as
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a finance? Maybe essentially personal
finance is kind of the main category if
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you think of when you think of Ramsey,
how do you then that idea? Do you try
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to figure out how it fits into the
overall brand or is then that or if it
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doesn't fit into the overall brand,
does it become a conversation of like,
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okay then we kill it or do you consider
making new property for building a
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separate brand? How would you approach
something like that? Yeah, we have, we
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have what we call the Wheel of Life. So
when we started, we were uh, we were
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just a money company. And when you look
at the Wheel of Life, there's a lot of
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different areas when people are
thinking about, how do I, how do I
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better myself? So that's marriage,
parenting career business, which is
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kind of outside of career, you've got
money. Exactly like all of these, all
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of these different areas kind of fall
in, in the wheel of Life and we have
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been a money company for the past 20
years. We've slowly started moving into
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some of these other spaces now, almost
unintentionally at first, like you
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mentioned entree leadership, that book
came out in 2008 and really that book
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was just how Ramsey did business. If
you read that book, it's like, well we
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do it this way and we did this and we
did that. It wasn't necessarily, hey,
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we're going to redefine the business
landscape. It was kind of like this is
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this is how we do it. But as we've
moved forward, we've been very, very
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intentional about the different, what
we call spokes uh, that we go into one.
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If we don't feel like there is
something that needs to be disrupted or
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there's something that needs to be um a
light shined on it. We're not going to
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go down there just because somebody has
an idea, some of it is, we've all,
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we've, we've always had this champion
mindset, we call it where somebody has
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an idea and then it goes through a
pretty significant vetting process. It
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doesn't make sense with Ramsey and
before, if it wasn't money to, to your
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point,
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it was kind of like, well no, we
probably won't do that. Like if you
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looked at our events, a lot of our
events, anytime we would have someone
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come and speak, that was outside of
money, it wouldn't be one of our in
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house personalities, it would be
somebody from the outside. But as we
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begin having conversations of what does
the future look for our company, we do
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say we're going to need to move outside
of money in some of these other areas
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because honestly, when you look at
money, everything of life interacts
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with money in some way, I'm not saying
that money is the most important thing,
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but if you look about any area of life,
money is a part of it. So just think
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about parenting, how do I pay for a kid,
how do I teach my kid money values? I
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need to send my kid to school, how am I
going to pay for that? How do I set
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them up for the future? Right, What are
the things that I should teach them? Oh,
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what about marriage and marriage and
money? Like we have a conference called
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Money and Marriage and when you think
about that, there is a lot around money
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when it comes, should I, should we have
a joint bank account? How do we have a
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budget conversation? How do we get even
on the same page about how we're trying
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to move forward? So when we look at,
when we look at things that we're going
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to move forward, there's a very uh
specific process around how we do that
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and a lot of it comes down to do we
feel like we can enter this market and
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provide value and help people because
you know, that's, that's what our
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mission is to bring hope and education
to everyone in every walk of life. It
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doesn't just say money and so it's,
it's not an easy, it's not an easy
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thing to just jump over into a space
that we're not known for, but part of
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the global branding effort is so that
we can transfer that trust into that
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space so that we're not going to just
do something that is a completely
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separate brand. Um it may be something
different than we've ever done. We just
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had john Deloney join, join our team
and we've been moving into the mental
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health space and he's amazing, but
we're connecting that back to the brand
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and we're connecting that within he,
you know, he hosts are Ramsey show, he
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is in Ramsey Plus, which is our our
subscription, he is throughout our
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different areas so that we can tie all
of this together moving forward. So
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what I hear you saying is that you
would take an initiative like that
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would be like how do we connect this
back to the home base? In what ways is
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this tied to our core thing of of money?
So if you're reaching out to HR
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directors and you're kind of reaching
out with the value proposition, like
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people struggle with money and the more
your employees struggle, the more
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they're not going to be focused on
great work, help your employees thrive,
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build it into your benefits to get
smart dollar and help teach them how to
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use their money, teach them how to
utilize your company benefits, become a
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better HR director. And we essentially,
we want to help you can become a better
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HR director and that could be a
property that you then build and still
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tie back to the core thing of, we help
people take care of their money so that
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they can live a better life or whatever
the slogan is, right? Yeah, yeah. I
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mean you look at, you look at a lot of
the ways that our products and services,
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they all grew out of an initial class.
So financial peace is a class that
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teaches you how to do money. We said,
okay, there's a lot of people that come
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in are doing that on their own. But
what are the other areas that people
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need this help? Well, what about to
your point? What about employees? We
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found that employees that don't have
that are able to pay and get out of
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debt and start saving for their future.
They're actually better employees.
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Because the stress that comes with
mismanaging your money actually makes
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you a worse employee because you're
focused on that. I'm gonna need to
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constantly leave to get a better job
because I need to make more money
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because I don't know how to spend
correctly. Um I've got stress. I'm not
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going to come into work. I can't focus
because I got all that we've got the
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research and we found that companies
love that. They're like, yes, please,
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how do we offer a benefit that's gonna
actually make a better worker, right?
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And it's not just we need to to make
better workers, but the way that we're
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helping people at the same time that
then produces a result that a business
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is going to like, it made complete
sense for us to do that. And we also
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did that in schools. Nobody was
teaching financial literacy in schools.
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I mean, the reason financial peace was
so successful is because nobody taught
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in schools and people time and time
again, we're like, man, I wish, I wish
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I learned this when I was in school.
And so we said, well what if we found a
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way to start getting this into schools?
So we started working, we got Ramsey
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education, which is a, is a sub brand
of ours, but it's teaching that
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curriculum in schools and some may say,
well that's stupid because if that's
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really successful, then this whole
other part of your business, you're not
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gonna need anymore because everybody is
going to be doing it right. And and yes,
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that's true. And if you look at our our
we want to bring hope to everybody,
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That would be a great world. We would
be 100% okay if everybody took this
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curriculum in high school and didn't
need us for that part of of us in the
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future, that would be, that would be
okay. And there's different areas like
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that. How do we take things that are in
one area and move them into these,
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these other areas? That just makes
sense, man makes a ton of sense to me.
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I before sweet fish, I was working for
a university called Bethany Global
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University and it was a required class
budgeting and they just walked through
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Financial Peace University and I know
that students were very thankful for
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that. So I know colleges are doing even
better to get it at the high school
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level, but if not then at least at the
college level, as you're starting to
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prepare for those things and hopefully
you didn't take talk, you'll probably
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learn. I mean, a lot of colleges
probably wouldn't want to do it because
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you'd be like anti large college debt
and they'd be like, well, so hence the
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high school level would be better. Yeah.
Well, and the thing is like, if you
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take the curriculum, I think there
could be a future and maybe if there's
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anybody at college is listening, if
they said, hey, we want to sponsor this
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to get into all of these schools
because we're not anti college. That's,
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that's the thing. We're anti student
loan debt because it robs your future.
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We, if you look at one of the baby
steps, one of the baby steps is saving
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for college. So we are very pro
education. We're very pro, like, hey,
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we want, we want higher ed. The thing
is you just got to figure out the best
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way to pay for it. And they're like, we
teach all that stuff through
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scholarships and part time jobs and
figure out how to, you know how to do
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all of that higher education. If they,
if they look at it as like, oh, we
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don't want to talk about this. No, no,
something's going to happen with
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student loans. Like it's, it's reaching
the crescendo and something's gonna
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disrupt the college industry in a major
way they would be good to look and say
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how do we figure out how to help people
pay for college so that people can
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continue to come to college instead of
trying to say no, no, no, don't do that,
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continue to do the way we're doing now.
So
390
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with Ramsey being as big of a brand as
it was, you guys had a have a massive
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web presence, how did you go about
consolidating a lot of those websites
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that were out there with all those
different U. R. L. S, all those
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different style sheets, all those
different Back End Systems, Like Why
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Did 1? You've already talked a little
bit about why you wanted to consolidate
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some of these things to provide a more
holistic experience for brand reasons.
396
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But what were some of the technological
reasons you wanted to do this? And then
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how did how did you execute that
process?
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00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:29.140
How do I distill 18 plus months of work
into answer? Like that is a really,
399
00:29:29.150 --> 00:29:33.330
it's a great question, but it is a
really, really big question. So when
400
00:29:33.340 --> 00:29:38.580
when we made the decision to
consolidate this a lot of it, uh
401
00:29:38.590 --> 00:29:45.250
branding was a big part of this, there
was also S E O that we thought about it,
402
00:29:45.250 --> 00:29:52.450
It's very similar to Trust Google is a
is a trust brand right there there,
403
00:29:52.460 --> 00:29:56.210
they have to trust your website before
they're going to give it the right
404
00:29:56.210 --> 00:30:02.280
placements and they call it, you know,
different things. But we have a lot of
405
00:30:02.280 --> 00:30:07.060
trust in google. We had it for Dave
Ramsey dot com which was our primary
406
00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:11.660
website. But every time we would go
launch a new website that wasn't
407
00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:16.860
connected to that, we didn't have that
trust. So we were building that trust
408
00:30:16.860 --> 00:30:20.930
from scratch so that every time if we
put the same article out on Dave Ramsey
409
00:30:20.930 --> 00:30:25.350
dot com versus one of our other sites,
it would always win. It would always go
410
00:30:25.350 --> 00:30:29.180
to the top of that search result and we
were struggling on all of these other
411
00:30:29.180 --> 00:30:35.980
sites. So we made the decision, we need
to combine all of these into 11 site
412
00:30:35.990 --> 00:30:40.820
and to do that it was it was going to
be a massive undertaking. So they were
413
00:30:40.820 --> 00:30:45.850
like, there were three main things that
we thought through in this process. One
414
00:30:45.850 --> 00:30:50.660
we had to to think of traffic right? We
had to think of, there is a lot of
415
00:30:50.660 --> 00:30:54.630
traffic coming to this site. There's a
lot of traffic from S. C. O. Coming to
416
00:30:54.630 --> 00:31:01.270
this site. And so how we plan this and
walk this out if we do this wrong, it
417
00:31:01.840 --> 00:31:06.070
the damage that it's going to do to our
site that we are going to be digging
418
00:31:06.070 --> 00:31:11.830
out of forever. It's like we did, we
looked at all of these migration case
419
00:31:11.830 --> 00:31:17.170
studies and found that, you know,
people were losing in 90% of their S. E.
420
00:31:17.170 --> 00:31:20.860
O. Because of the way they did it when
it's not doing the redirects correctly
421
00:31:20.860 --> 00:31:24.620
or giving a bunch of four floors and
all of these other things. And so a big
422
00:31:24.620 --> 00:31:29.450
focus of our planning was around how do
we make sure that we don't destroy
423
00:31:29.450 --> 00:31:32.860
ourselves in S. E. O. For the long term.
We knew we were gonna have a hit
424
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:37.890
regardless. We were going to have an S.
E. O. Hit. But how do we minimize that
425
00:31:37.900 --> 00:31:42.790
as much as possible? The second is
there was a lot of work that needed to
426
00:31:42.790 --> 00:31:49.230
be done. Not all of these websites that
we had were on the same uh systems on
427
00:31:49.230 --> 00:31:53.120
the back end. The CMS is so we had to
figure out how do we transfer pages
428
00:31:53.120 --> 00:31:59.770
over into the new section with that
came redirects? Our final redirect map
429
00:32:00.140 --> 00:32:07.420
was over 15,000 U. R. L. S. So we had a
spreadsheet of â¬15,000 that said here's
430
00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:11.650
the old one and this is the new one
that it goes to. And we had one person
431
00:32:11.660 --> 00:32:15.550
that was responsible for owning that.
And the thing is she was really good
432
00:32:15.550 --> 00:32:19.920
with spreadsheets and she loved it but
it kind of made my eyes bleed when I
433
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:24.030
just would look at it just because it
was it was so long and so complicated.
434
00:32:24.040 --> 00:32:27.680
And so we had to figure out how do we
do that? How do we make sure that we
435
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:34.310
don't have a ton of 4/4. We had to look
at the overall architecture. We went
436
00:32:34.310 --> 00:32:40.410
from a very brand first architecture to
a topic first architecture. So instead
437
00:32:40.410 --> 00:32:47.760
of leading with financial peace and an
R. U. R. L. Slug. We lead with debt or
438
00:32:47.770 --> 00:32:52.760
money or insurance because that's what
people are looking for in in search.
439
00:32:52.840 --> 00:32:57.000
And so when we consolidated all this,
we said, what is the, what is the
440
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:01.610
future of this site need to be? How do
we make this site scalable? So that in
441
00:33:01.610 --> 00:33:04.960
the future if we had more products that
are gonna help you with dead or more
442
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:08.280
products that are gonna help you with
insurance, they're all going to be
443
00:33:08.280 --> 00:33:12.910
categorized in the right way with with
google. And the last one because we
444
00:33:12.910 --> 00:33:17.030
knew we were going to take a hit. And
in terms of traffic, we looked at
445
00:33:17.040 --> 00:33:21.500
revenue and seasonality to figure out
when we were going to do this because
446
00:33:21.500 --> 00:33:27.410
all the research we did and anytime you
research anything on google, the one
447
00:33:27.410 --> 00:33:32.060
thing that you're going to find is that
everybody thinks something different.
448
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:36.990
No matter if you are an S. E. O. Expert
or you are someone who used to work at
449
00:33:36.990 --> 00:33:41.420
google or you're somebody at google
that is putting things out that it's
450
00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:47.780
this black box for how you actually do
it, quote unquote correct. And so the
451
00:33:47.780 --> 00:33:53.920
decision, the decision that we made, we
called the light switch approach. So
452
00:33:53.920 --> 00:34:01.580
instead of slowly migrating all of
those sites, one after another, we did
453
00:34:01.580 --> 00:34:10.590
them all at one time. So we did all of
the work for about 18 months and then 1
454
00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:18.150
10 hour plus day we got 100 plus people
in a room and we migrated all of these
455
00:34:18.150 --> 00:34:22.810
sites at once. So we turned the lights
off on all of those sites and the
456
00:34:22.810 --> 00:34:29.389
lights on at Ramsey solutions dot com,
It's by far the biggest, the biggest
457
00:34:29.389 --> 00:34:34.250
project that I've ever been a part of.
I mean if you look at everybody in our
458
00:34:34.250 --> 00:34:40.630
1000 plus person organization touched
that project in some way but we had so
459
00:34:40.630 --> 00:34:45.020
just just from the sheer number of
volume we had over um over 1000
460
00:34:45.020 --> 00:34:51.870
marketing pages. We had over 2500 blogs
that had to be had to be either
461
00:34:51.870 --> 00:34:55.620
consolidated, migrated. We had even
more than that that we killed or
462
00:34:55.620 --> 00:35:01.160
redirected And then like I said over
15,000 you or else not to mention
463
00:35:01.540 --> 00:35:07.650
because google likes hard coded links
in web pages. We had to go in and
464
00:35:07.660 --> 00:35:13.550
update all of that in every page we
went in and hard coded all of those
465
00:35:13.550 --> 00:35:17.440
links again. Now luckily we were able
to get a script, we have some smart
466
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.670
developers that that did that but had
we had, we done that manually there was
467
00:35:22.680 --> 00:35:28.490
like over 120,000 in page links
throughout the website that we were
468
00:35:28.490 --> 00:35:33.270
going to have to update. So those are
kind of the main the main things that
469
00:35:33.270 --> 00:35:38.650
we considered, but a lot of it was a
phased process that we did. We had some
470
00:35:38.650 --> 00:35:44.320
key milestones over that time um and
then we had times where we called it
471
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:48.310
the freeze, there were different things
that would have to freeze so that
472
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:52.480
nothing else would change and we could
verify it again and again, one of one
473
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:58.440
of my favorite things that we did, we
called it everyone's a Q A and so
474
00:35:58.450 --> 00:36:03.070
everyone in the organization, we had a
giant spreadsheet that had all the U. R.
475
00:36:03.070 --> 00:36:06.450
L. S. That we were transitioning and we
sent it out to everybody and we said,
476
00:36:06.450 --> 00:36:13.030
hey go in and choose 3 to 4 pages and
just go in and q it make sure the links
477
00:36:13.030 --> 00:36:16.300
work, make sure it loads, make sure
when you click to something that's
478
00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:20.940
going to the right thing and we
involved the entire organization and we
479
00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:26.240
we actually we did that two different
times. So we had everyone's a Q a part
480
00:36:26.240 --> 00:36:31.700
two and everybody knows that Sequels
are always better than the original. Um
481
00:36:31.700 --> 00:36:34.940
And so we got every, we had to get
everybody excited. Again, we're like
482
00:36:34.940 --> 00:36:40.700
we're gonna QA again let's do it. But
it was it was such an awesome example
483
00:36:40.700 --> 00:36:45.940
of getting the entire organization
behind this, this overall project, but
484
00:36:45.950 --> 00:36:51.510
all let's say is not easy. The decision
was not taken lightly and the amount of
485
00:36:51.510 --> 00:36:56.530
time and effort we put in here was
significant and I hope to never have to
486
00:36:56.530 --> 00:37:02.270
consolidate that many domains into one
again, I found big transitions like
487
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.890
this usually only take place once
unless something dramatic and the
488
00:37:05.890 --> 00:37:08.930
company happens way later down the line
like you change business models or
489
00:37:08.930 --> 00:37:12.650
something then of course then it's time
to reconsider again, I mean this is one
490
00:37:12.650 --> 00:37:15.080
of the bigger ones that I've heard of,
the amount of traffic you guys were
491
00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:19.050
dealing with across all these
properties page size wise. The only the
492
00:37:19.050 --> 00:37:22.860
only people that are like bigger than
this as far as our like maybe dedicated
493
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:26.960
media properties like you know like
Forbes or wired or whatever. Like those
494
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:30.260
guys that were like social networks are
people who do like programmatic sc Oh
495
00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:35.880
so you think of like Zap ear who set up
like 100,000 pages automatically just
496
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:38.910
by coming up with all the different
weird tool combinations that people
497
00:37:38.910 --> 00:37:43.550
search. Right? So those can be kind of
complicated but you guys have multiple
498
00:37:43.550 --> 00:37:47.190
properties and not only do you have
multiple properties but you change the
499
00:37:47.190 --> 00:37:50.530
your all of your core property. It went
from Dave Ramsey dot com to Ramsey
500
00:37:50.530 --> 00:37:55.680
solutions dot com which is that in and
of itself is a big change over just
501
00:37:55.680 --> 00:37:59.190
changing the core properties don't mean
but not you should decided just to go
502
00:37:59.190 --> 00:38:03.520
for it all at once, which is which is
crazy what has been the results you've
503
00:38:03.520 --> 00:38:07.430
seen as a result of changing it over.
When did it change? And you had the dip
504
00:38:07.430 --> 00:38:12.830
where you guys at now. So we we changed
it all over in april and we're still
505
00:38:12.830 --> 00:38:18.110
walking that back. So we we had the dip
um immediately and one of the things,
506
00:38:18.110 --> 00:38:21.770
so obviously you're watching your
domain authority, so our domain
507
00:38:21.770 --> 00:38:27.890
authority uh dipped and within a week
it was back up to exactly where Dave
508
00:38:27.890 --> 00:38:32.870
Ramsey dot com was, which was great. We
and we have been watching where we're
509
00:38:32.870 --> 00:38:37.710
kind of falling from. We look at both
what we call branded and non branded
510
00:38:37.710 --> 00:38:43.470
search and so are branded rebounded
immediately. That was that was never a
511
00:38:43.470 --> 00:38:48.050
major concern for us in terms of us
getting back up in those rankings, we
512
00:38:48.050 --> 00:38:52.570
knew that the only way we were going to
lose those is if we did something
513
00:38:52.570 --> 00:38:57.250
horribly wrong, like if we didn't if we
didn't do the redirects right, or
514
00:38:57.250 --> 00:39:00.880
something broke or they didn't take a
site map that we submitted or something
515
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:06.200
like that. So that stuff came back
relatively quickly. The non branded is
516
00:39:06.200 --> 00:39:12.410
what's what's been slowly coming back
up and a lot of that is because we have
517
00:39:12.410 --> 00:39:17.140
things that span a lot of different
areas, each of those are kind of having
518
00:39:17.140 --> 00:39:22.730
their own path back, right. And there's
things that are happening if if nothing
519
00:39:22.730 --> 00:39:26.560
else was happening in google. So if
they weren't constantly releasing
520
00:39:26.570 --> 00:39:29.880
algorithm updates and they weren't
constantly shifting what they're saying
521
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:34.460
about core web vitals and page
experience and all that, it might be a
522
00:39:34.460 --> 00:39:40.460
more consistent return. But there are
so many different factors that are that
523
00:39:40.460 --> 00:39:45.710
are impacting our our trek back up. And
so we are we are on the path we're
524
00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:50.640
still down. Um But we we knew that we
were going to be down for a good amount
525
00:39:50.640 --> 00:39:54.980
of time in S. E. O. And so we've been
looking at what are other ways that we
526
00:39:54.980 --> 00:40:01.490
can continue to drive that um Because S
Ceo is not just done in the world of S.
527
00:40:01.490 --> 00:40:06.340
E. O. Right, people don't just search
because of work that you've done in
528
00:40:06.340 --> 00:40:10.440
search. So it's things that you're
doing outside, whether it's branding,
529
00:40:10.450 --> 00:40:15.860
um whether it's media hits. We we saw
some great seo traffic increase through
530
00:40:15.860 --> 00:40:19.840
all of the advertising that we did
around the borrowed future documentary
531
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:24.680
that just came out. So there's a lot of
stuff that we're still glad that we did
532
00:40:24.680 --> 00:40:29.270
it. We knew long term and we made the
decision that the long term brand of
533
00:40:29.270 --> 00:40:34.180
the company was not going to be Dave
Ramsey. And we also knew that as we had
534
00:40:34.180 --> 00:40:37.840
these other products and services that
are just going to have Ramsey on it,
535
00:40:37.850 --> 00:40:43.910
that the kind of easier sc oh way to go
would be to just consolidate into Dave
536
00:40:43.910 --> 00:40:49.320
Ramsey dot com but that was going to be
a big disconnect for our customers. So
537
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:54.740
if I, if I find Ramsey every dollar and
I go and then I'm redirected to Dave
538
00:40:54.740 --> 00:41:00.090
Ramsey dot com. If you don't really
know Dave Ramsey, that's going to be a
539
00:41:00.100 --> 00:41:03.040
really big disconnect, you're gonna be
like, what does that even, what does
540
00:41:03.040 --> 00:41:07.440
that mean? But even our personalities
like Rachel Cruz or john Deloney when
541
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:11.860
they do media hits, they're called
Ramsey personalities so that when they
542
00:41:11.860 --> 00:41:16.740
go to Ramsey Solutions, which is the
name of our, our overall parent company
543
00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:20.040
and it's the name of our building. So
when you come in and listen to a show,
544
00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:23.610
you're gonna see that that on the
outside too, that there's actually a
545
00:41:23.610 --> 00:41:27.780
connect. So again, it all goes back to
this overall branding, the connective
546
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:32.520
tissue that's going to go throughout it.
And you know, sometimes you gotta, you
547
00:41:32.520 --> 00:41:38.000
gotta pay a little bit up front for the
long term benefit. We talk about that
548
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.170
and investing, right? You gotta put in
money now and it's gonna be painful now
549
00:41:41.170 --> 00:41:45.810
so that you can have good stuff in the
future. That's a similar situation that
550
00:41:45.810 --> 00:41:49.720
we're experiencing today. Have you seen
a big fallout from revenue based on
551
00:41:49.720 --> 00:41:54.970
your, your lost traffic? Yes. And no,
we've, we've had issues with with some
552
00:41:54.980 --> 00:41:59.900
areas with revenue, some, some areas
aren't dependent on non branded for the
553
00:41:59.900 --> 00:42:04.680
most part. And so we haven't seen that
and like I said, we knew a lot of this
554
00:42:04.680 --> 00:42:09.580
was coming. And so we've been focusing
on other areas to kind of minimize that,
555
00:42:09.590 --> 00:42:10.720
that gap overall
556
00:42:12.100 --> 00:42:14.810
bummer for the teams that are dedicated,
the products that were most dependent
557
00:42:14.810 --> 00:42:16.120
on it, but at the same time
558
00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:21.710
there's so many things going on that I
know it would work out, man. We've
559
00:42:21.710 --> 00:42:25.990
covered a lot of different topics.
We've talked about branding, we've
560
00:42:25.990 --> 00:42:30.770
talked about house of brands, we've
talked about S E. O. Domain names, uh,
561
00:42:30.780 --> 00:42:35.030
this massive project Ramsey over did to
consolidate all these anywhere else.
562
00:42:35.030 --> 00:42:38.050
One of the bigger projects that I've
heard of, thank you so much for walking
563
00:42:38.050 --> 00:42:41.940
me through all of that. If people want
to connect with you, Where's a good
564
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:45.520
place to connect with you Casey and
what's probably the most relevant thing
565
00:42:45.520 --> 00:42:50.640
for B2B marketers to know about Ramsey
and where to find it. Yeah, we, so
566
00:42:50.650 --> 00:42:54.290
connecting with me is, is relatively
easy. I spend, I spend a good deal of
567
00:42:54.290 --> 00:42:59.510
time. This is where we met on linkedin.
Uh, and so that's K. C. It's K C Y.
568
00:42:59.510 --> 00:43:03.580
It's a, it's a weird spelling, but
that's, that's how you can find me. And
569
00:43:03.580 --> 00:43:09.820
there's a lot of really smart marketers
from Ramsey that are on linkedin, like
570
00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:13.460
if you're listening to this and you
want to connect with. I've never worked
571
00:43:13.460 --> 00:43:18.970
at a company around so many people that
are extremely intelligent and experts
572
00:43:18.980 --> 00:43:22.110
in their craft and so if you're looking
for, if you're looking for that,
573
00:43:22.110 --> 00:43:27.240
there's a lot of people whether it's uh
you know, Andy high or tray cinnamon.
574
00:43:27.250 --> 00:43:31.450
You've got Jennings recently. We have a
lot of people that are active on
575
00:43:31.450 --> 00:43:35.970
linkedin as well. So connecting with
people, there is a great thing to do.
576
00:43:35.980 --> 00:43:40.710
But if, if you're looking for like
Ramsey Solutions, what we do. Ramsey
577
00:43:40.710 --> 00:43:46.090
Solutions dot com is where you can go
and get all of that. And we are hiring
578
00:43:46.100 --> 00:43:50.060
a lot of people, we're hiring marketers
were hiring developers, we've got a lot
579
00:43:50.060 --> 00:43:54.200
of people out like a lot of roles
Because we are continuing to grow. I
580
00:43:54.200 --> 00:43:59.920
said we're at 1000, We've just built
our second building um that houses 1000
581
00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:05.380
people. So we have 1000 in one building
and we just built another one. And so
582
00:44:05.380 --> 00:44:09.960
we are poised for a lot of growth in
these next years. And so if you want to
583
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.190
get on that ship, go to Ramsey
solutions dot com and and look in the
584
00:44:13.190 --> 00:44:17.600
career section. Fantastic Casey. Thank
you again for joining me on GDP growth.
585
00:44:17.610 --> 00:44:19.420
Thanks for having me
586
00:44:21.690 --> 00:44:25.890
and sweet fish. We're on a mission to
create the most helpful content on the
587
00:44:25.890 --> 00:44:30.470
internet for every job function and
industry on the planet for the B two B
588
00:44:30.470 --> 00:44:34.510
marketing industry. This show is how
we're executing on that mission. If you
589
00:44:34.510 --> 00:44:38.010
know a marketing leader that would be
an awesome guest for this podcast.
590
00:44:38.090 --> 00:44:41.540
Shoot me a text message, don't call me
because I don't answer unknown numbers.
591
00:44:41.550 --> 00:44:47.760
But text me At 407 four and I know
three, Just shoot me. Their name may be
592
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:51.680
a link to their linkedin profile, and
I'd love to check them out to see if we
593
00:44:51.680 --> 00:44:54.800
can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.
594
00:44:56.790 --> 00:44:57.300
Live with it.
595
00:44:58.390 --> 00:44:58.720
Mhm.