How Side Hustles Fuel Marketing Team Success with Patrick Ward

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:09.390 Welcome into be tob growth. My name is Benjie Block, your host, 2 00:00:09.589 --> 00:00:14.189 and today I am joined by Patrick Ward. He's the VP of marketing at 3 00:00:14.230 --> 00:00:17.910 rootstrap. Patrick, welcome in to be to be growth. Thanks for having 4 00:00:17.949 --> 00:00:21.070 me, Benji. So, Patrick, I'm thrilled to have you on the 5 00:00:21.109 --> 00:00:25.379 show. We have a core value around here, around the show, and 6 00:00:25.539 --> 00:00:30.420 it's simple. It's just never stop learning, and today's conversation, where we're 7 00:00:30.420 --> 00:00:34.539 going to take this thing, really fits that core value so well. So 8 00:00:34.579 --> 00:00:37.329 I'm going to pose a first question to you, and it's just this. 9 00:00:38.409 --> 00:00:41.450 For you, and you think of never stop learning, I know it's something 10 00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:44.890 that you care deeply about, but tell me something that you're doing right now 11 00:00:45.170 --> 00:00:50.200 that really embodies that that core value. Thanks, Benji. I think the 12 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:55.320 cave for me with this cold value is that you can never be content to 13 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:59.880 just let your job run your learning. Right, we all go through these 14 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:03.430 stages where we start with university, you know, that being the closest thing 15 00:01:03.469 --> 00:01:07.590 to our career. Then we'll get into our career, will go through a 16 00:01:07.629 --> 00:01:11.629 few jobs and more often than not many people stop there. And for me, 17 00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:15.069 yes, it's not about what you can learn on the job because, 18 00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:19.620 yes, that's important, but more what can you do outside? And that's 19 00:01:19.659 --> 00:01:22.019 really what we're going to talk a lot about today. We're going to talk 20 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:26.500 about side Hustles, because I think this term gets stigmatized a lot. A 21 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:30.859 lot of people get confused about the term, but I hope what we uncover 22 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:34.730 for people today with our conversation that people should not fear the term actually relish 23 00:01:34.890 --> 00:01:38.569 in the opportunity that it provides, which, like you say, to never 24 00:01:38.650 --> 00:01:44.250 stop learning. Yeah, it's going to be really key for us to go 25 00:01:44.450 --> 00:01:49.120 down this road because people will have all sorts of different thoughts when they hear 26 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.480 the phrase side Hustle. So we'll give a clear definition and what we're talking 27 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.640 about the value add that it can be. But first we have to acknowledge 28 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:00.439 you have an amazing accent, so people are very privileged already from the start 29 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.469 of this episode we have an Asi here on the show with us and I 30 00:02:04.709 --> 00:02:07.710 love that. But Patrick, gift for us just like a definition, when 31 00:02:07.710 --> 00:02:12.310 we think of side Hustle, what exactly are you talking about and where do 32 00:02:12.310 --> 00:02:15.939 you want to take us in this episode? Absolutely so, for me, 33 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:20.580 a side hustle should be something that compliments your life and what do I mean 34 00:02:20.699 --> 00:02:25.620 by that I want people to start thinking about side hustles as something they've got 35 00:02:25.860 --> 00:02:30.330 already inside of them that just needs to be realized in the real world. 36 00:02:30.889 --> 00:02:35.250 Because when people think of side Hustles, they think of it in one of 37 00:02:35.370 --> 00:02:39.289 two ways. Either the first way they think is the latest fad, the 38 00:02:39.330 --> 00:02:44.639 latest trend. This is drop shipping, this is I need to get into 39 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:47.680 Seo, I need to do digital marketing, I need to do a commerce 40 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:52.919 I need to do an NC store, or they think about it in terms 41 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:55.639 of hustle, and this is where it's really toxic. They think they need 42 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:02.990 to dedicate every last minute of every waking hour to realizing the side Hustle in 43 00:03:04.150 --> 00:03:08.270 that it eventually replaces their full time job. Now that's a worthy aspiration, 44 00:03:08.830 --> 00:03:13.419 but if you're doing it at the expense of your health, at the expense 45 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:16.819 of your relationships with others, that's not what I want to be focusing on. 46 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:22.099 What I want is for people to create a side hustle that serves them, 47 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:25.020 and the model that we're going to talk a lot about today is how 48 00:03:25.099 --> 00:03:29.490 can you do it in just a couple of hours a week where it's still 49 00:03:29.689 --> 00:03:34.969 creates a worthy asset it still creates opportunities for learning, but it doesn't cripple 50 00:03:35.090 --> 00:03:39.289 you and it doesn't define your life. Yeah, I have a couple key 51 00:03:39.409 --> 00:03:43.759 follow up questions, but before we even get to those follow up questions, 52 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:46.800 I want to clarify something, right, because we're on a show that's called 53 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:50.319 be to be growth, and someone could be listening going what is a side 54 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.879 hustle have anything to do with my be tob business? But Patrick, you 55 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.870 think it plays a pretty key role, right. You think it can be 56 00:03:57.949 --> 00:04:01.509 a big catalyst, even in like to what you're doing in your daytoday. 57 00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:04.509 Actual Nindre twenty five jobs. So explain that a little bit. How do 58 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:10.300 you see a side hustle sort of matching up or even complimenting what we're doing 59 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:15.580 in our B TOB businesses? So this comes firstly to the point that a 60 00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:20.220 side hustle should be based on your existing experience, and so this is sort 61 00:04:20.259 --> 00:04:24.449 of a heart of your question, Benji, of how does it serve my 62 00:04:24.529 --> 00:04:28.610 current company? Well, the fact of the matter is you got hired by 63 00:04:28.730 --> 00:04:33.170 your current company for a certain expertise. That expertise, when deployed through a 64 00:04:33.290 --> 00:04:39.480 side Hustle, not only allows you to further master that craft. We're always 65 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.360 looking to find ways to level up. You know, yes, we might 66 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.519 be at a mid level in a particular skill set, but we want to 67 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.879 be advanced, we want to be an expert. So that's one way and 68 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:55.670 the other way is you're providing another channel, and channel independent of your company. 69 00:04:55.949 --> 00:04:59.110 And we know this in the B to be world that at the end 70 00:04:59.149 --> 00:05:03.709 of the day, B to be has been so mysticized by all. We're 71 00:05:03.750 --> 00:05:08.740 selling to businesses and somehow we're forgotten that, hey, we're still selling the 72 00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:12.699 humans at the end of the day, and so what you can put out 73 00:05:12.699 --> 00:05:16.699 as a message from your be to be company might resonate in a certain way 74 00:05:16.779 --> 00:05:21.009 with an audience, but through a side hustle could be a completely different scenario. 75 00:05:21.449 --> 00:05:28.329 And that the amalgamation of those different channels. That's really the key for 76 00:05:28.490 --> 00:05:32.250 your company, because I'm sure many are in the same situation as I am. 77 00:05:32.529 --> 00:05:35.279 You know, I work for a company right now which is a custom 78 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:41.480 software development agency. That too many people. Is Great. There's thousands of 79 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.839 those and this happens all the time in the be to be space. There's 80 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.790 considerable lack of differentiation and so if you can find the ways that you can 81 00:05:50.389 --> 00:05:56.990 exploit different channels that a separate from your main channel or your main website or 82 00:05:57.110 --> 00:06:00.389 your main social media presence, that it's underneath your company, such as with 83 00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:05.379 a side hustle, you can really unlock some substantial growth levels. Yeah, 84 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:12.980 you're giving people permission to take a really unique approach and to think specifically quite 85 00:06:13.019 --> 00:06:16.139 differently. Right. So, earlier you broke down two ways that people sort 86 00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:20.250 of get side hustles wrong. They either focus too much on that second word 87 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:26.129 hustle right, or they go this route of thinking I've got to go out 88 00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:29.970 and I got to learn a completely brand new skill, I have to do 89 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:32.439 whatever's hot right now, which, I'll say, Patrick, I've been guilty 90 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:35.240 of this, man, when I think of side hustles. Even when I 91 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:40.199 had a side income, at times I still felt like I was supposed to 92 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.959 know how to do drop shipping or I was supposed to create a tshirt brand, 93 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:46.870 because when you look at like what's hot on Youtube, or you look 94 00:06:46.870 --> 00:06:50.389 at what you're marketed to as to the businesses that you should start, a 95 00:06:50.550 --> 00:06:55.910 lot of times it's sort of out of the areas of expertise that maybe I'm 96 00:06:55.910 --> 00:07:00.350 naturally good at, but someone made some money doing it and now they want 97 00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:01.779 to teach you how to do it, and now I feel bad because I 98 00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:06.100 don't have that same skill set. So I love that you're giving people permission 99 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:13.620 to go further into what they're already interested in and try to like, basically 100 00:07:13.660 --> 00:07:16.490 find another revenue stream and learn more. Right like. That's where it comes 101 00:07:16.529 --> 00:07:21.170 back to this never stop learning piece. How did you first come across this 102 00:07:21.529 --> 00:07:27.209 idea for yourself personally, that like a side hustle could really hold some value? 103 00:07:28.050 --> 00:07:30.759 So at the start of the pandemic, I'm sure many people face this 104 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:35.199 same conundrum where I suddenly had a lot of time on my hands and I 105 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:43.079 was, as a fairly typical extrovert, out networking, going to different events 106 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.389 three to four times a week, and suddenly all that time got slashed and 107 00:07:46.550 --> 00:07:50.350 got freed up. So it really boiled down to, okay, I need 108 00:07:50.470 --> 00:07:55.709 to use this time productively. You know, I've got an enormous opportunity here. 109 00:07:55.910 --> 00:08:00.620 I was still fortunate, and I certainly sympathize with those who who lost 110 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.860 their jobs during the pandemic, but I was fortunate to keep mine, and 111 00:08:03.019 --> 00:08:07.500 so I'm thinking, right what is the best way to utilize this, and 112 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:13.689 this is where the natural intersection came about, because I thought of in the 113 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:16.850 same way that you thought, Benji. I'd seen a lot of the quote 114 00:08:16.850 --> 00:08:22.569 unquote, fake Guru's pushing a drop shipping, pushing a course, something they 115 00:08:22.610 --> 00:08:24.009 want, they'd made a little bit of money and trying to teach someone. 116 00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:28.160 I thought, now I'm going to count that narrative. I'm going to make 117 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:33.120 sure that what I craft is at the perfect intersection between my company and my 118 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:39.120 skill set, and so that's where I stumbled on a website. Now this 119 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.190 in if you pitch this to anyone, they would have thought this is the 120 00:08:43.350 --> 00:08:48.149 worst idea for a side hustle. You're going to create a Web site using 121 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:52.269 an affiliate marketing model. Everyone was telling me affiliate marketing was dead, and 122 00:08:52.710 --> 00:08:58.379 you're going to create it based on outsourcing. Now, this was that the 123 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:03.179 core of my experience and that was the point. I wanted to create it 124 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:05.460 in a way that it was easy for me to do, and so I 125 00:09:05.580 --> 00:09:09.980 want to just dive in a little of how did I start, because I 126 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:15.370 think this is something that too many people gloss over with too many platter tubes. 127 00:09:15.409 --> 00:09:18.289 They just say the simple thing of just start like that's all you have 128 00:09:18.409 --> 00:09:22.049 to do, but a lot of people still go, well, what does 129 00:09:22.129 --> 00:09:24.799 that mean? So here's what I did. I did a three month sprint 130 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:31.080 of creating content where me and my business partner we got on zoom calls. 131 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.240 We had a topic. I pick the topic because it was just sort of 132 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:39.990 the twenty to thirty things people should know about outsourcing and we recorded them. 133 00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:43.750 We took that recording, we took it to a transcriber. You can you 134 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.230 can find many affordable ones online. We used up work, but you can 135 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:52.620 find it through many sort of freelancing platforms for for very little money. transcribe 136 00:09:52.659 --> 00:09:56.419 those into content and then we just let it sit. We let the sit 137 00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:01.860 for a while and then, through that testing at the marketplace, we saw 138 00:10:01.299 --> 00:10:07.289 which types of content we're getting people to pay attention to it which weren't getting 139 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:11.809 paid attention to. And the great thing about this is even in this three 140 00:10:11.970 --> 00:10:16.850 month sprint we never spent more then thirty minutes a day on it. And 141 00:10:16.009 --> 00:10:20.970 so by the time that six months had rolled around and we started having some 142 00:10:20.169 --> 00:10:24.080 data of what we could prove that, hey, this side hustle is actually 143 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:30.639 doing something beneficial. We hadn't burnt ourselves out, because I see that time 144 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:35.870 and time again. Right people get really excited about their new venture, they 145 00:10:35.029 --> 00:10:39.190 pour all their soul into it for a month and then they're just done. 146 00:10:39.470 --> 00:10:43.389 They're exhausted. The fact that I could look back on this and realize, 147 00:10:43.710 --> 00:10:46.750 Hey, I'm not skipping a bait, I'm not feeling drained, I'm still 148 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:50.700 feeling just as energized at the end of the day as I am at the 149 00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:54.340 start of the day, that is a measure to me of what your side 150 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:58.299 Hustle should accomplish for you, because if it is in your expertise, it 151 00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:03.820 should come naturally to you. It should be more seamless. You're still learning, 152 00:11:03.899 --> 00:11:07.210 you're still expanding the skill set, but the foundation you're sitting on is 153 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:13.289 the knowledge you already have. Hmm, I love that, and you break 154 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.210 it down real practically. So let me ask you some follow up questions on 155 00:11:16.690 --> 00:11:18.879 what you just broke down. You say you did a three month sprint. 156 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.039 In that time you're not expecting a lot to be public facing or making a 157 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.600 bunch of money, right, and explain that breakdown. Like in your head, 158 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.509 did you have a sixmonth time frame before you started to see any reward 159 00:11:33.629 --> 00:11:35.070 for the work you were putting in. When did you want to see that? 160 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:39.990 Yeah, so the reason we used a sixmonth time frame, and this 161 00:11:39.110 --> 00:11:43.470 is where it was a little particular to my special of Excite Hustle, but 162 00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:46.740 you can apply the second methodology. The six months is because in the world 163 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:50.539 of SEO and affiliate which is what I started in, and that's why I 164 00:11:50.860 --> 00:11:56.659 decided on that as a core underpinning for the business venture I was going to 165 00:11:56.419 --> 00:12:03.570 start, is I wanted it to last that long because Google will not, 166 00:12:03.929 --> 00:12:07.610 for any site of, you know, a small enough stance, and this 167 00:12:07.769 --> 00:12:09.850 was obviously, being a fresh sight, going to be like that. You 168 00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:15.049 need that amount of time, that six months, before you will really have 169 00:12:15.330 --> 00:12:20.960 any actionable data, and so that was a really important thing in that I 170 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:28.000 wanted to make sure that I was adequately experimenting, throwing enough ideas out there 171 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.470 just to see what sticks, because I think we also get two trapped in 172 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:37.669 our own head in thinking well, I have this expertise, I'm, you 173 00:12:37.789 --> 00:12:41.389 know, really confident in it, but then other people won't want it right. 174 00:12:41.509 --> 00:12:48.059 It's that a psychological phenomenon where we downplay our own expertise and we play 175 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:52.460 up the expertise of others that we don't have, and so I wanted to 176 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.179 remove that psychological bias. I wanted to just let's just put this content out 177 00:12:56.220 --> 00:13:03.330 there, let's see what the people respond to and then from there let's at 178 00:13:03.490 --> 00:13:07.610 that point, start thinking about what a business case is, because I think 179 00:13:07.610 --> 00:13:11.169 that's another mistake that a lot of people fall into. The side hustles. 180 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:16.200 They try and get it to make money from the start. Now that should 181 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.000 be your goal. You obviously don't want to do it for no reason at 182 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.720 all and you want to craft, you know, a business plan towards that 183 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.389 eventual goal. But you need to accept that, at least for the first 184 00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:33.389 I mean we didn't see a dollar come in until twelve months, and when 185 00:13:33.470 --> 00:13:37.789 that dollar came in, I will say it was a twenty five dollar affiliate 186 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:41.779 sale. We were very exciting when it came in. You know, it's 187 00:13:41.860 --> 00:13:45.899 not a life changing amount of money, right. These things still do take 188 00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:50.019 time. You need to apply that methodical process. So yes, like you 189 00:13:50.059 --> 00:13:52.940 say, Benjie, the whole point of that six months was let's prove that 190 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:58.129 we have something here of interest, because I think this is more to speak 191 00:13:58.169 --> 00:14:03.009 to where we are in the world right now. We're in an attention economy 192 00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:07.490 right everyone's looking for your attention, and so if you can master the way 193 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:11.480 of telling a story, if you can master a way of communicating that is 194 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:16.639 natural to you, that therefore pick other people will respond to, that's your 195 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.600 first step. If you get that attention, then we can start thinking about, 196 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:26.830 okay, what avenues do I have to monetize this attention and how do 197 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:30.429 I do it in a way that I don't ask for too much upfront, 198 00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:33.990 because if I ask too much, then people will obviously get put off by 199 00:14:35.029 --> 00:14:41.019 it. Yeah, a key element you your story is something you mentioned earlier, 200 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:46.100 where you don't want the side Hustle people start to take more than what 201 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:50.379 what did you say? Two hours a week? Yeah, and so I 202 00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:54.850 think that's a key component where you were even saying like those first six months 203 00:14:54.049 --> 00:14:56.769 most of it, you're not needing to spend more than thirty minutes a day 204 00:14:56.850 --> 00:15:01.850 on it. In so the bar is pretty low. The obviously that that 205 00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:07.480 will make your runway a bit longer. So you had like this year where 206 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.799 it's a little, I mean a lot of work is being done behind the 207 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.759 scenes. It's not like it's just sitting in limbo, but as far as 208 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.320 actual cash coming in and seeing the fruits of your labor, in a sense 209 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.070 you're having to wait quite a bit, which I think that in and of 210 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:26.350 itself is something that most people they refuse to start a side hustle or go 211 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:31.549 down that road because they want that instant gratification. What did you learn in 212 00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:37.340 that year plus that you feel like made it worth it to wait that long, 213 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:39.860 to put in that much time before you see a great reward? What 214 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:43.980 were you learning? What were the benefits of all the work you put in? 215 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:48.379 Well, this is exactly the reason why I say you want to tie 216 00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:52.250 your side hustle to what you're doing in your day Jel, because even though 217 00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:58.009 I didn't say a single dollar come in in that first twelve months, the 218 00:15:58.169 --> 00:16:03.409 benefit was that I was actually just getting even more knowledge than I already had 219 00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:07.039 about my industry, about the world of outsourcing, about the world of software 220 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:12.879 development. I was deliberately forcing myself to do things that, let's be honest, 221 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:17.879 subconsciously I knew I should have been doing. But the great thing about 222 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:21.950 doing it in the form of a side hustle is you trick your mind into 223 00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:26.350 going now, I'm doing this I'm doing this research, but I'm building an 224 00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:30.990 asset. But at the same time you're still building knowledge that you can apply 225 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:37.340 today. You're building knowledge, skills, ideas that I was still taking to 226 00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:44.419 my team members inside my day job saying like Hey, I'm seeing this trend 227 00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:49.289 in marketing about our industry. Should we try something of that? So suddenly 228 00:16:49.330 --> 00:16:56.929 I'm using my side hustle almost as a form of light experimentation in the market 229 00:16:56.370 --> 00:17:02.120 that I don't have to risk our company brand on. Because I'm sure anyone 230 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.880 will say that when you're inside a company, yes, you can be experimental, 231 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:10.200 yes, you can be creative, but within limits. You know there 232 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:14.000 is still, you know, significant money on the line and you want to 233 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:18.269 be careful. But when you're with a side hustle you, and especially when 234 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.390 you're starting, you can take all the risks you want because if it doesn't 235 00:17:21.390 --> 00:17:25.710 work out, who cares? You learned something as a result, and that 236 00:17:25.910 --> 00:17:30.220 was the big motivator for me, is that even though I wasn't seeing a 237 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:36.220 financial reward for the actual side hustle itself, I was still being a Beta 238 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:41.579 laid. I was still getting more credibility, mull cloud more. You know, 239 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:45.210 the accumulation of influence within my company as a result of doing the side 240 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:49.049 hustle. Hey everyone, if you've been listening to be to be growth for 241 00:17:49.089 --> 00:17:53.089 a while, you know that we are big proponents of putting out original, 242 00:17:53.369 --> 00:17:57.799 organic content on Linkedin, but one thing that's always been a struggle for a 243 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:03.640 team like ours is easily tracking the reach of that linkedin content. That's why 244 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:08.039 we're really excited about shield analytics. Since our team started using shield, we've 245 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:12.549 been able to easily track the reach and performance of our linkedin content without having 246 00:18:12.589 --> 00:18:18.829 to manually log it ourselves. 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All 255 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:06.359 One word for a twenty five percent discount. All right, let's get back 256 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.190 into the show. I could not agree more with this point. It is 257 00:19:10.630 --> 00:19:15.589 so valuable to have a space where you are working on something similar to what 258 00:19:15.789 --> 00:19:22.150 you already do but have more freedom to try new things, because I think 259 00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:26.940 it also in some way you're growing your knowledge. But it's still enough of 260 00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:32.819 a new space, it's still different enough to where you almost get to see 261 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:36.940 with fresh eyes, even though it might be the same industry. We can 262 00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:40.930 get really bogged down with the work we do all the time because we're just 263 00:19:41.130 --> 00:19:44.089 in it all the time. But if you just have a slight change, 264 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:48.730 even if you're doing the same actual task but it's outside of your company context, 265 00:19:48.849 --> 00:19:52.000 you see new ways of doing things, you're willing to try it in 266 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.839 a different way and maybe even having not all the same voices around the table 267 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:02.279 right you're going and asking other people. That in and of itself is a 268 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.680 value add because you see things you would have never seen before. Hundred percent. 269 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.309 I want to give a quick, concrete example of this so so people 270 00:20:10.309 --> 00:20:15.509 understand what I'm talking about. So we had tried out this idea that reports 271 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:22.700 were really good at getting press mentions. This is something that's been a trend 272 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:27.900 for the last couple of years where you see journalists increasingly want data to support 273 00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:32.940 a certain narrative that they're writing in their stories. And so we thought, 274 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:37.329 okay, why don't we put together a study based on virtual assistance? We 275 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.450 put together this study, we put it on my side venture, nanoglobals, 276 00:20:41.730 --> 00:20:48.089 and suddenly we're picking up press links from business insider, ink fast company and 277 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:52.759 like okay, we're proven the model. Then we took that same philosophy, 278 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:57.680 we took that over to roots trap and we took that to an industry that 279 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:03.559 was more related to root straps work, I. Education. For those viewers 280 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.670 who don't know my root straps the biggest client as masterclass. So therefore we're 281 00:21:07.710 --> 00:21:12.630 very strong in the education space. We've put together an education report using that 282 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:19.619 methodology we'd originally developed on Nanoglobals, and suddenly now we also have a successful 283 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:26.059 press strategy, a successful backlink acquisition strategy. Now I would argue if we 284 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:30.819 tried to do that on root strap first, it might have, you know, 285 00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:36.529 ruffled a few feathers. It might have been a little bit problematic because 286 00:21:36.529 --> 00:21:41.369 it was very experimental and you know, there's just too many stakeholders involved. 287 00:21:41.490 --> 00:21:45.690 You know, generally speaking, a company wants something that is semiproven. I 288 00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:52.039 would argue even the most innovative companies still want something semiproven. So if I 289 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.440 could come to them, Hey, look, I ran this over here. 290 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:59.319 It was in a non risk and Vin aronment, but I've proven that the 291 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:04.069 data measures out it looks like it works, suddenly we've got an entirely new 292 00:22:04.150 --> 00:22:10.750 strategy and tily new tactic that we can deploy for for our company. Yeah, 293 00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:14.829 proof of concept is so crucial when the business is already running at a 294 00:22:14.869 --> 00:22:18.740 high level. So to have somewhere where the stakes weren't is high, where 295 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:22.019 you prove it out. You're going to bring in that idea and not that 296 00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:26.140 it's a no brainer or that you took all of the fear or you know, 297 00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:30.289 the risk out of it, but you did your significant research and you're 298 00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:33.730 not going and saying hey, they tried it over there and it worked. 299 00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:37.089 You're saying I tried it and it worked. So there's just so many benefits 300 00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:41.970 that I see. Here's where it really starts to hit home for me, 301 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:48.440 Patrick, is you didn't just do this with yourself, you invited your team 302 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:52.359 and actually encourage them to do this as well. Is that right? Yeah, 303 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:57.039 so I have a pretty small tain of ten, but I've been able 304 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:02.269 to do this with four of them. So each of them are in different 305 00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:07.589 spaces. Again, the actual semantic of the side Hustle. I'll quickly run 306 00:23:07.670 --> 00:23:11.900 through them. One runs an affiliate site for Internet providers. Run runs a 307 00:23:12.099 --> 00:23:18.180 site around buying tires online, one runs an ECO sustainability at sea shop and 308 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:25.380 the other runs and outsource video editing agency. Now, the Samanta of the 309 00:23:25.420 --> 00:23:27.569 side Hustle doesn't matter because, as we've talked about at the start, the 310 00:23:27.730 --> 00:23:32.170 point of a side hustle is to pick it based on your unique experience. 311 00:23:32.650 --> 00:23:34.930 But the reason I wanted to encourage it for all of my team and why 312 00:23:34.930 --> 00:23:40.450 I ask any manager to encourage it for their team, is because it's going 313 00:23:40.609 --> 00:23:45.319 to develop some very specific skills. When you think about when you've hired your 314 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.519 team members. Let's just take a marketing department, because obviously that's the area 315 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:55.519 I know best. When you've hired a marketer, you've hired them within usually 316 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:00.470 a specific skill set, usually maybe they've got some paid media experience, maybe 317 00:24:00.470 --> 00:24:04.349 they got good content experience over the wood social media experience, but that's the 318 00:24:04.470 --> 00:24:08.349 nuts and bolts of their experience. In order to be the best market of 319 00:24:08.470 --> 00:24:12.539 possible, especially in today's Day and age, you need to understand how your 320 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:19.900 efforts tied towards revenue and overall business objectives, and it's very hard, particularly 321 00:24:19.940 --> 00:24:26.809 for junior and mid career staff, to get exposure to that level of business 322 00:24:26.849 --> 00:24:33.730 acumen ordinarily within a company. What they really need is to start a business 323 00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:38.200 of their own and suddenly there are aspects that they never would have thought of. 324 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:45.200 Write. Your standard employee isn't necessarily thinking about profit and loss, isn't 325 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.960 necessarily thinking about where do I invest? Isn't necessarily thinking about product market fit. 326 00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:55.390 But if they're able to run a microcosm of that through their side venture, 327 00:24:55.390 --> 00:25:02.109 suddenly it opens up their mind to really thinking critically about their day job 328 00:25:02.150 --> 00:25:07.819 by the company that you want them to prosper and grow with, and they're 329 00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:11.500 starting to see, hey, maybe this sort of tactic would work or this 330 00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:15.339 sort of strategy would work, and you're not going to get that if you've 331 00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:22.809 just going to limit them based on the core experience of their tactical knowledge. 332 00:25:25.410 --> 00:25:30.130 How does this add value? Because I totally understand from the things that they're 333 00:25:30.170 --> 00:25:34.529 learning I think there would be some pushback in is this going to take time 334 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:40.279 away, or energy or ideas away from our company instead of for I would 335 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:45.079 assume you would maybe push back on that with if they go and they learn 336 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.680 it, it like and I'm encouraging it, that's better than them going and 337 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.910 doing it and me not encouraging it. Right. So I'll give a very 338 00:25:52.950 --> 00:26:00.109 specific example here. There are conversations I've directly had with these team members where 339 00:26:00.630 --> 00:26:06.460 if I had not cared about this level of growth of them, they would 340 00:26:06.460 --> 00:26:11.660 have already left me. And it doesn't take any financial expert to know that 341 00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:17.740 Attrition, Specifically Employee Attrition, is one of the biggest costs any business can 342 00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:22.970 have. You're looking at anywhere between twenty five and fifty percent of that person 343 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:29.569 salary just to go through a hiring process, find someone else higher on board 344 00:26:29.609 --> 00:26:33.480 them, round them up to speed. And so the fact of the matter 345 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:40.880 is people who have this mentality, people who embrace this entrepreneurial mindset, they're 346 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:44.440 going to do it with or without you. But I would argue that those 347 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:48.549 people who have that mindset, who are going to feel very supported by a 348 00:26:48.670 --> 00:26:52.670 manager like myself saying hey, I want to see you succeed in this side 349 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:56.950 Hustle. There you're a team. They're the players you want in your company 350 00:26:57.150 --> 00:27:02.660 because they're the ones who are going to make the nonlinear growth right. They're 351 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:07.539 going to make the outsize results. And the funny thing is what I've seen 352 00:27:07.579 --> 00:27:11.380 time and time again is when you've invested in this small part of them, 353 00:27:11.619 --> 00:27:17.089 whether you've invested in giving them some experience, some expertise, some advice, 354 00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:21.210 whether you've invested in giving them some time to spend on their side Hustle, 355 00:27:21.569 --> 00:27:26.250 whether you've even supported them in a simple way, like they have a particular 356 00:27:26.329 --> 00:27:29.890 course that they wanted to do, to help them formulate that side hustle, 357 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:33.119 and maybe you expense that as part of a company expense rather than letting them 358 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.160 spend it on their own. Doesn't have to be a lot, but when 359 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.200 you do that, the motivation they have, the happiness, the creativity, 360 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:48.069 the innovative mindset they bring back to your day job like that is where you 361 00:27:48.150 --> 00:27:51.829 see the real results, and so I agree with you, Benji. It's 362 00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:55.670 a scary thing. A lot of people say, no, I am paying 363 00:27:55.869 --> 00:28:00.259 for this time, so therefore you shouldn't be spending it on anything else. 364 00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:03.579 I would argue you're not paying for the time, you're paying for the output 365 00:28:03.940 --> 00:28:08.859 and your job as a manager is to make sure that output is way in 366 00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:15.609 excess of what you're paying that person is salary, because otherwise you're making a 367 00:28:15.769 --> 00:28:18.890 trajectory where your employee is going to give you fifty one percent of work. 368 00:28:19.210 --> 00:28:23.329 They'll give you that fifty one percent because it's just enough not to get them 369 00:28:23.369 --> 00:28:29.480 fired. Okay, you have me sold. I love the idea. I 370 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.920 think people should apply it to their teams. When I'm thinking about it, 371 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:37.680 I'm going if I was hiring someone, this would be something I'd be looking 372 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:42.269 for. Do they have that entrepreneur mindset where they're already thinking this way? 373 00:28:42.710 --> 00:28:47.470 But some people are going to already have functioning teams, great people, but 374 00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:51.910 those people don't have side hustles. They don't think this way. Patrick, 375 00:28:52.029 --> 00:28:56.099 what would you say to a manager who's going, I want to start to 376 00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:59.779 encourage this in my team? Did you have any team members that you've actually 377 00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:03.539 helped start their side also, or were you hiring for this from the beginning, 378 00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:08.500 so as actually a combination. So a couple of the team members already 379 00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:11.890 had the side Hustles, in which case you're absolutely right, Benji. The 380 00:29:11.930 --> 00:29:17.289 fact that I saw that, and I'd already seen that in the initial background 381 00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:19.089 check, if you will, before I got onto the interview with them, 382 00:29:19.329 --> 00:29:22.529 as soon as I got onto the interview, I was very much sold this 383 00:29:22.690 --> 00:29:29.480 is the right person. But equally, there was one particular employee I remember, 384 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.880 where he'd been a fairly standard, you know, corporate guy. Right, 385 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.079 he did his job, he worked really hard, had a good blue 386 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.670 collar work ethic and, you know, all good signs in terms of doing 387 00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:45.869 the actual functional job. But the funny thing is I was identifying that for 388 00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:52.750 him to level up, for him to really start providing more strategy and providing, 389 00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:56.660 you know, more team management for our company, he needed to level 390 00:29:56.700 --> 00:30:00.259 up in a big way. And the fact of the matter was I was 391 00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:06.220 left with a dilemma. I can either spend hours and hours training him, 392 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.289 but at that point I'm just telling him what to do, and which case 393 00:30:10.329 --> 00:30:14.769 I'm not even sure if he's really absorbing it or actually I can let him 394 00:30:14.769 --> 00:30:18.650 go off. I can give him a few prompts towards starting his own side 395 00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:22.640 hustle. I gave him a path, I walked him along the journey of 396 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.200 how I created mine, same as we've done on this call today, and 397 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:32.720 suddenly it unlocked for him. Suddenly he started to grasp he had ideas, 398 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:37.029 he came back, he would bounce them off me and through that process of 399 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:41.710 him developing a side hustle, being supported and having it fostered by me, 400 00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:48.869 suddenly he was reaching a level all by himself of what I needed him to 401 00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:52.299 be now, and that is one of the hardest lessons for any manager to 402 00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:59.420 understand. Again, there's a reason why micromanagement exists as a phenomenon, because 403 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.900 there's a lot of bad managers who think if they just tell people or order 404 00:31:03.940 --> 00:31:10.170 or mandate a certain level of tasks, that's going to miraculously make the person 405 00:31:10.210 --> 00:31:14.650 better. It does it. They need to realize it themselves. Your job 406 00:31:14.890 --> 00:31:21.079 is to provide an environment to facilitate that level of education so that your employee 407 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.839 is able to level themselves up, and that's really what I thought. That's 408 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.640 again it's the time and time again, reason why I encourage even if a 409 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.269 person doesn't already have a side hustle. I'll at least throw those ideas around 410 00:31:33.269 --> 00:31:37.670 and I'll push them and I'll nudge them and sometimes it gets it really annoying. 411 00:31:37.829 --> 00:31:41.630 I can tell my employees like a Patrick's asking me again, but I'm 412 00:31:41.670 --> 00:31:45.990 keeping them accountable to it because I know what the benefit will be to them 413 00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:51.180 and when they start doing it, usually I get them coming back saying, 414 00:31:51.819 --> 00:31:56.660 Yep, all right, you were right, you were right that this was 415 00:31:56.740 --> 00:32:00.579 actually really beneficial and I should have started this years ago, but I didn't, 416 00:32:00.579 --> 00:32:04.170 and I'm like, that's okay, we all do that, but you 417 00:32:04.289 --> 00:32:08.890 started now and that's what's important. I think about it in our context here 418 00:32:08.930 --> 00:32:15.880 at sweet fish and for us, were helping be to be brands start podcasts 419 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.640 right. It is a core value of ours. Like I said, never 420 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.799 stop learning. I bring that up here on B tob growth pretty often as 421 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:28.160 well, and we talked about that. But we don't want to just talk 422 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:32.829 about it externally. Internally it is pushed like hey, you should start your 423 00:32:32.869 --> 00:32:37.750 own podcast, hey, you should be like actually in the game so you 424 00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:42.589 can learn what this process is like from the other side. What does it 425 00:32:42.710 --> 00:32:45.339 feel like to sit behind a mic if you're a producer and that's actually like 426 00:32:45.660 --> 00:32:51.539 encouraged around here. So it's in our context. It's not maybe ghost start 427 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:55.700 a business, but it's understand podcasting so well that you understand all the different 428 00:32:55.700 --> 00:32:59.769 portions of it and then, once you do that, you get more passionate 429 00:32:59.809 --> 00:33:02.529 about audio as a medium, you start to learn things about video that you 430 00:33:02.650 --> 00:33:07.730 didn't know before, you start to be able to have ideas for your customers 431 00:33:07.769 --> 00:33:10.650 that you're serving. So all sorts of benefits that you've touched on, Patrick, 432 00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:15.960 that we're seeing here, and it's incentivized and talked about and it's championed 433 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.599 here that hey, start your own show, take some time out of your 434 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.720 week and go and do that. You're more than welcome to and I think 435 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:27.630 we see the benefits of that. So I can't stand behind this more. 436 00:33:28.150 --> 00:33:31.950 I love that you said that there's this natural intersection where it's my company, 437 00:33:32.309 --> 00:33:37.190 my skill set, and all the sudden that fuses together. It's not something 438 00:33:37.309 --> 00:33:39.990 you're looking all around. Oh No, what do I have to do? 439 00:33:40.069 --> 00:33:44.339 I have to find it from scratch. So it can already be internal. 440 00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:46.299 That means right, if you're a manager, if you're a director, and 441 00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:50.660 you're looking at your team, you're not telling them to go find something new. 442 00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:52.579 You can just call what you already see out of someone and say hey, 443 00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:55.450 you'd be you're already great at this for us. You could be great 444 00:33:55.450 --> 00:33:59.529 at this for a bunch of other people and learn a bunch more. So 445 00:34:00.210 --> 00:34:04.569 there's so much here. As we start to wrap up, any last things 446 00:34:04.609 --> 00:34:07.730 you want to say, Patrick, any last words of encouragement or maybe practical 447 00:34:08.010 --> 00:34:13.599 what we should do as we leave this episode? Yeah, I just want 448 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:17.360 to call out to the managers because I think they've been the biggest barrier to 449 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:23.710 this having wider adoption, because I think many people have side hustles or side 450 00:34:23.750 --> 00:34:30.309 hustle ideas or like inklings of wanting to start it, and maybe the difference 451 00:34:30.349 --> 00:34:35.789 between them starting it or not is whether they got some encouragement from a manager. 452 00:34:36.269 --> 00:34:40.380 And so I want to say to them. You might think by telling 453 00:34:40.460 --> 00:34:45.900 them to focus on their work is the way to get it, but it 454 00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:49.579 is not. The Way to get the best out of a human is to 455 00:34:49.699 --> 00:34:53.130 tap into their energy and tap into their emotion. The fact of the matter 456 00:34:53.329 --> 00:35:00.050 is every human is driven by what intrinsically motivates them and then they want to 457 00:35:00.090 --> 00:35:06.570 see that recognition outside and if you don't foster that, you are only going 458 00:35:06.570 --> 00:35:09.320 to get fifty one per and in their effort. But if you invest in 459 00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:15.840 them fully as a person, if you encourage their professional development inside your organization, 460 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.880 if you encourage their side hustle outside your organization and if you care about 461 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:24.110 their overall wellbeing, you're going to start getting eight out of ten, nine 462 00:35:24.150 --> 00:35:28.469 out of ten, ten out of ten, eleven out of ten productivity from 463 00:35:28.510 --> 00:35:32.550 them. And when you see that, that's when your organization truly souls and 464 00:35:32.710 --> 00:35:37.059 when suddenly you, as a manager, look like a God gift from heaven. 465 00:35:39.099 --> 00:35:44.219 This is so good, it's so true and I think this episode is 466 00:35:44.300 --> 00:35:49.420 so insightful as a podcast. Right we're called Bob Growth and I just think 467 00:35:49.460 --> 00:35:52.329 about growth. This episode is one where people are going to be like, 468 00:35:52.369 --> 00:35:54.849 why are they talking about side Hustles, and I'm going because this is where 469 00:35:54.929 --> 00:35:59.570 the growth is. Right. You gave me a lot to think about. 470 00:35:59.610 --> 00:36:01.969 I'll sum it up as best as I can real quick. When we say 471 00:36:02.010 --> 00:36:07.400 side Hustle, when Patrick says side Hustle in this episode, he's not talking 472 00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:13.039 about hustle culture and he's not telling you to go learn something from scratch. 473 00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:17.159 That's not in your wheelhouse. He's saying what do you already have internally that 474 00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:22.750 you can just lean into more and actually learn more? And then you bring 475 00:36:22.789 --> 00:36:27.230 that back to your day job and there's this beautiful synergy that starts to happen 476 00:36:27.269 --> 00:36:30.150 and it adds value to your current company and it adds value to your life, 477 00:36:30.230 --> 00:36:36.380 your overall energy, your enthusiasm and your learnings. And then I loved 478 00:36:36.460 --> 00:36:39.179 how you broke down real practically for us what you did, that it took 479 00:36:39.219 --> 00:36:43.619 you longer than a year to really see profits come in, but you were 480 00:36:43.659 --> 00:36:47.530 seeing profits, just not monetary profits right, and that was valuable to you. 481 00:36:47.690 --> 00:36:51.889 I think that will be valuable to our listeners to hear a different version 482 00:36:52.329 --> 00:36:55.969 of side hustle, that it can have a longer runway, but the benefits 483 00:36:55.969 --> 00:37:01.719 are all over the place. And then this idea at the end that managers 484 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:06.880 probably are the one so far that if stood in the way, if you're 485 00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:09.280 listening to this and there's people that are reporting to you, open that door 486 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:15.360 a little bit and watch all the benefits that flow into your company because you 487 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:19.349 choose to empower people right, rather than it's kind of a no, we 488 00:37:19.429 --> 00:37:22.110 can't do that. There's no time. Look for ways to be a benefit 489 00:37:22.150 --> 00:37:25.469 to people and watch the return there. I love it at this such a 490 00:37:25.510 --> 00:37:29.949 good conversation, Patrick. For those that want to stay connected to you, 491 00:37:30.099 --> 00:37:32.820 man, they want to maybe follow more of your work, what's the best 492 00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:37.460 way for people to do that and reach out? So linkedin is going to 493 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:44.449 be number one. So linkedin docom. I End Patrick, James Ward Or. 494 00:37:44.690 --> 00:37:47.090 I encourage you to check out our websites, both my day job, 495 00:37:47.250 --> 00:37:53.130 Rootstrapcom, and my side Hustle, Nano Globalscom. Wonderful. Thank you so 496 00:37:53.210 --> 00:37:58.679 much for being on the show today. Thanks, Benji. Hey, everyone 497 00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:00.840 that's listening, if you want to connect with me, you can do it 498 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.840 on Linkedin as well. I'll just search benji block. would be more than 499 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:12.119 happy to talk to you about business or life marketing. Love having those conversations 500 00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:16.190 and love the community that's forming and has already been here for quite a while 501 00:38:16.269 --> 00:38:21.309 at vtb growth. If you aren't yet subscribe to the show, do that. 502 00:38:21.469 --> 00:38:23.909 You can do it on whatever platform you're listening to this on right now 503 00:38:24.550 --> 00:38:29.739 and keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. 504 00:38:34.059 --> 00:38:37.579 Are you on Linkedin? That's a stupid question. Of course you're on 505 00:38:37.659 --> 00:38:39.460 linked it here. It's so we fish. We've gone all in on the 506 00:38:39.500 --> 00:38:45.090 platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a 507 00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:47.849 funny gift for me, other times it's a micro video or a slide deck, 508 00:38:49.130 --> 00:38:52.570 and sometimes it's just a regular old status update that shares their unique point 509 00:38:52.610 --> 00:38:58.559 of view on BB marketing leadership or their job function. We're posting this content 510 00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:01.880 through their personal profile, not our company page, and it would warm my 511 00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:07.599 heart and soul if you connected with each of our evangelists. will be adding 512 00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:10.190 more down the road, but for now you should connect with bill read, 513 00:39:10.389 --> 00:39:15.389 our COO, Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director, Dan Sanchez, our director 514 00:39:15.429 --> 00:39:20.150 of audience growth, Logan Lyles, are Director of partnerships, and me, 515 00:39:20.510 --> 00:39:23.230 James Carberry. We are having a whole lot of fun on Linkedin pretty much 516 00:39:23.230 --> 00:39:25.619 every single day and we'd love for you to be a part of it.