Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:09.430 welcome back to BBB Growth. I'm dan Sanchez with Sweet Fish Media and today 3 00:00:09.440 --> 00:00:14.670 I'm joined by Michael Bear, who's the CMO of M. J. H. Life Sciences, Michael, 4 00:00:14.680 --> 00:00:19.070 thank you for joining me on the show today. Thanks dan. Good to be here. As 5 00:00:19.070 --> 00:00:24.670 I think I've mentioned to you uh I actually was on the podcast six or so 6 00:00:24.670 --> 00:00:29.740 years ago with James and so uh in a different role at the time, but it's 7 00:00:29.740 --> 00:00:32.770 great to be back. Thanks for having me, Yep, it's great to have you back a 8 00:00:32.770 --> 00:00:37.900 second time, you're now uh B2B growth alumni. So it's always good to have 9 00:00:37.900 --> 00:00:41.030 people back, especially as they've gained new experiences, have learned 10 00:00:41.030 --> 00:00:45.930 new things and today I'm very excited to talk to Michael about how he's 11 00:00:45.930 --> 00:00:51.460 working with M. J. H. To build dynamic customer journeys. But before we do 12 00:00:51.470 --> 00:00:56.010 Michael, how's it been going in your day so far? So while it's still 13 00:00:56.020 --> 00:01:01.760 relatively early in the morning, my day has had a number of meetings that we, 14 00:01:02.440 --> 00:01:08.530 we have as a regular cadence every single day. So, uh, MJ subscribes to 15 00:01:08.540 --> 00:01:13.020 something called scaling Up or the Rockefeller principles. And the idea is 16 00:01:13.020 --> 00:01:19.020 that teams have again, a cadence of meetings. There's a daily rhythm, 17 00:01:19.030 --> 00:01:22.580 there's a weekly rhythm. There are monthly and quarterly meetings that are 18 00:01:22.580 --> 00:01:28.450 all designed to build up to achieve, uh, an annual objective or rock or set of 19 00:01:28.450 --> 00:01:33.520 rocks. And so by 8 40 every day, I've already had two huddles with the 20 00:01:33.520 --> 00:01:37.250 executive team and then my marketing leadership team. And so I've already 21 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:42.870 talked to 20 odd people. Uh, and these are very quick stand up meetings, uh, 22 00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:50.130 top priorities, top challenges and just kind of a cultural say hello. And, and 23 00:01:50.130 --> 00:01:55.240 they really do get your day off to a good start. Absolutely. We use traction 24 00:01:55.250 --> 00:01:58.500 at sweet fish media, but I've worked at past companies that use the scaling up 25 00:01:58.500 --> 00:02:03.380 model very similar and I can say like my life and my business life certainly 26 00:02:03.380 --> 00:02:09.610 changed when we got into a habit of well executed daily meetings or even 27 00:02:09.610 --> 00:02:12.850 weekly meetings. You know when you've come out of a well run meeting, when 28 00:02:12.850 --> 00:02:15.730 you have like action items, everybody is clear on what they need to do and 29 00:02:15.730 --> 00:02:18.440 everybody is updated on what everybody else is working on. Especially like 30 00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:23.150 daily stand ups to kind of get a sense for the pulse right of what's going on 31 00:02:23.150 --> 00:02:29.420 in organizations a powerful way to kick a day off and uh in a team M. J. H. 32 00:02:29.430 --> 00:02:32.430 Life sciences. That could mean a lot of different things. So tell us a little 33 00:02:32.430 --> 00:02:39.590 bit about like what the company is and what it's about. Sure. So we are a full 34 00:02:39.590 --> 00:02:45.610 service healthcare or medical media company. In fact were the largest 35 00:02:45.610 --> 00:02:51.190 privately held healthcare company or media company in the country. So what 36 00:02:51.190 --> 00:02:57.080 does that mean? Well, we we service largely the healthcare community with 37 00:02:57.090 --> 00:03:04.040 education uh, and content that helps improve patient care, literally that's 38 00:03:04.040 --> 00:03:07.120 our focus. And in fact, we'll talk about probably in a little while while 39 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:11.340 that's why that mission is important, uh, not just to the company and our 40 00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:15.310 business, but literally to the functioning of each and every 41 00:03:15.310 --> 00:03:18.330 individual on on all parts of the organization, but certainly within 42 00:03:18.330 --> 00:03:26.450 marketing. So we, the key pillars of this media company are we've got 60 odd 43 00:03:27.040 --> 00:03:32.350 publications, media media publications that include literally print media as 44 00:03:32.350 --> 00:03:39.580 well as uh, you know, digital media. And then we also have education, We 45 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:43.930 have video, uh, and then we have marketing services. So there's a full 46 00:03:43.930 --> 00:03:47.760 service agency that's underneath our overall umbrella as well as a research 47 00:03:47.760 --> 00:03:52.340 company and and some other parts of our marketing services. So to give some 48 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:56.050 context to understand the customer journey now that we understand the big 49 00:03:56.050 --> 00:04:00.490 picture of MJ life sciences, what are some of the web properties you guys 50 00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:01.460 currently have up? 51 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:11.300 So we're we service nearly every medical or health care specialty or 52 00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:17.540 vertical but were very big in uh specific markets like oncology. So uh 53 00:04:17.550 --> 00:04:21.820 one of our biggest brands is on Clive, which is one of the leaders for 54 00:04:21.820 --> 00:04:29.000 oncology uh health care professionals, largely oncologists as well as targeted 55 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:35.370 oncology and cancer network. Um We also are big and primary care areas like we 56 00:04:35.370 --> 00:04:40.720 have helped HCP live. We have medical economics which is over 100 year old 57 00:04:40.730 --> 00:04:45.320 media property. Uh and then literally across almost every other specialty 58 00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:53.700 care area from uh contagious diseases, pediatrics, cardiology, neurology uh as 59 00:04:53.700 --> 00:05:00.080 well as pharmacy. Um And even into animal health and dental, yep. So what 60 00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:05.060 are some of the main like websites that you are directing people to, yep. So 61 00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:12.320 like I said on Clive targeted oncology. HCP live neurology live, I missed the 62 00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:17.070 dot com. So I was like doctor websites are those topics. I'm not a doctor. So 63 00:05:17.070 --> 00:05:20.890 I'm like a technical terms. I'm like I'm not sure You're not a doctor but 64 00:05:20.890 --> 00:05:26.580 you play one on TV. Right. Medical Economics Cure is uh one of the few 65 00:05:26.580 --> 00:05:31.240 brands that actually for us targets consumers. So it's targeting patients 66 00:05:31.250 --> 00:05:37.660 with or who have had cancer. Uh And then Pharmacy Times is another one A. J. 67 00:05:37.660 --> 00:05:41.760 M. C. Which is in the area of what's known as managed care. Uh And even 68 00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:49.140 fetch or D. V. M. 3 60 in the animal health area. So those are a lot of web 69 00:05:49.140 --> 00:05:53.350 properties and as you know, there's a lot of different ways you can start the 70 00:05:53.350 --> 00:05:57.800 customer journey, but usually it comes from getting them from one place over 71 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:02.360 to the website. So what are the main channels you're using to grow the 72 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:06.800 audiences of those websites? Where are you directing traffic from them to kick 73 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:13.040 off the customer journey? So we use, you know, many of the traditional um 74 00:06:13.050 --> 00:06:20.360 traditional tools. So uh by far the number one driver of web traffic is uh 75 00:06:20.370 --> 00:06:26.060 is organic search. You know, doctors and healthcare professionals googling 76 00:06:26.540 --> 00:06:31.120 topics and specialties that you know that they're looking for solutions and 77 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:36.950 answers to. And thankfully, you know, our links performed fairly well. And 78 00:06:36.960 --> 00:06:44.760 our brand brands are known as valuable or valid, you know, content location. 79 00:06:44.760 --> 00:06:50.140 So we, you know, we get a lot of a lot of organic traffic. But in addition we 80 00:06:50.140 --> 00:06:54.820 have, you know, we have a lot of email newsletters. So email is a big driver 81 00:06:54.820 --> 00:07:02.200 to our web properties. Um, and then we do surgical kind of targeted paid media 82 00:07:02.210 --> 00:07:06.890 efforts around specific programs, specific pages, specific content as 83 00:07:06.890 --> 00:07:12.480 well as um, as events uh, that that we are putting on for, you know, for 84 00:07:12.490 --> 00:07:17.410 doctors and for education. Yeah, this is kind of the fun part for me is like, 85 00:07:17.410 --> 00:07:23.140 ok night there on your website. And for those who are listening, you can only 86 00:07:23.150 --> 00:07:26.340 have been on the websites and you can kind of imagine like a web MD style 87 00:07:26.340 --> 00:07:29.340 site where they're answering lots of questions. And there's lots of great 88 00:07:29.340 --> 00:07:33.870 content that they're attracting people to this website, right? For all 89 00:07:33.870 --> 00:07:39.350 different kinds of ailments or diseases or different symptoms like all these 90 00:07:39.350 --> 00:07:42.360 different things. People are coming to for answers and they're pretty serious, 91 00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:46.670 pretty serious stuff. It's not like stuff to be taken lightly, right? So 92 00:07:46.670 --> 00:07:51.390 people are coming for answers and looking for information from there. 93 00:07:51.390 --> 00:07:55.660 Once they hit the web pages to get that information, how do you capture their, 94 00:07:55.660 --> 00:07:59.090 their information? And then what are you doing to dynamically build that 95 00:07:59.090 --> 00:08:03.220 customer journey from there? Because doing the search, hitting the web page 96 00:08:03.230 --> 00:08:08.920 and then from there, I find that that's where most marketers stop right there. 97 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:12.300 Like, oh, we got some traffic, maybe they click through to our pricing page. 98 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:15.490 I'm like, that rarely ever happens. Right? So what do you do to build the 99 00:08:15.490 --> 00:08:20.230 customer journey from there? So it's interesting. So, first of all, you know, 100 00:08:20.940 --> 00:08:27.550 I use the term journey a lot. We all do and um, we as a company are also on a 101 00:08:27.550 --> 00:08:34.159 journey. So it's not just the customer themselves. So we are pushing our own 102 00:08:34.740 --> 00:08:40.870 capabilities, developing our own data and tech platforms and and stack and 103 00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:44.990 driving and growing, you know, growing our approach to all these things that 104 00:08:44.990 --> 00:08:51.170 you're mentioning as we speak first off, it's important to recognize that most 105 00:08:51.170 --> 00:08:58.930 of the people who hit our website, our doctors and the doctors that search for 106 00:08:58.930 --> 00:09:06.340 something are looking for a specific answer. And so interestingly enough, it 107 00:09:06.350 --> 00:09:10.460 tends to be a bit transactional. Uh, they come in, they want some 108 00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:16.730 information, we have a lot of, a lot of web use that is a single page, a single 109 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:24.880 content exploration. So, our journey is how do we dr additional time on site? 110 00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:29.850 How do we drive additional uh, understanding of the value that our our 111 00:09:29.850 --> 00:09:33.640 brand and our website can provide these doctors. How do we get them to come 112 00:09:33.640 --> 00:09:38.030 back or explore analogous or, you know, similarly relevant content. How do we 113 00:09:38.030 --> 00:09:43.730 get somebody who read an article on multiple myeloma to recognize that we 114 00:09:43.730 --> 00:09:48.660 have had video on that of, you know, leading doctors talking about topics in 115 00:09:48.660 --> 00:09:54.720 that area. How do we make sure they understand we have webinars or upcoming 116 00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:00.270 events on this topic that they can sign up and register for. So there's a lot 117 00:10:00.270 --> 00:10:05.690 of efforts going on now to a to your point, make sure we we can capture 118 00:10:05.690 --> 00:10:11.120 those folks have them register, log, you know, log in basically register for 119 00:10:11.130 --> 00:10:16.690 newsletters that that will begin to keep them informed on the brand as well 120 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:24.090 as dynamically serve content. You know, with this result they've gotten from 121 00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:28.180 their web search that tells them essentially if you like this, you'll 122 00:10:28.180 --> 00:10:33.790 like this other thing. But it is all all the journey, but we haven't for us, 123 00:10:33.790 --> 00:10:39.530 but we even, you know, implemented a C. D. P. You know, we've updated our CMS 124 00:10:39.530 --> 00:10:44.880 and we are, you know, beginning to do all these all of these things, it's 125 00:10:44.880 --> 00:10:48.460 fantastic to be able to capture information and then deliver them 126 00:10:49.140 --> 00:10:52.910 information based on the page where they converted right? I mean that 127 00:10:52.910 --> 00:10:56.150 starts to really get, I mean it's difficult to do, I've I've tried to set 128 00:10:56.150 --> 00:10:59.250 it up myself and it takes a lot of work on the back end to be able to deliver 129 00:10:59.260 --> 00:11:04.110 dynamic information based on, like even a page they've converted on. So that 130 00:11:04.110 --> 00:11:09.230 certainly makes a difference. It's hard to even describe how difficult the 131 00:11:09.230 --> 00:11:14.190 simple things seem to be. You know, we we implement, you know, the tools and 132 00:11:14.190 --> 00:11:19.250 then it's still it's still requires, you know, incredible amounts of 133 00:11:19.260 --> 00:11:23.870 programming, coding, testing, you know, in part of testing is getting it wrong 134 00:11:23.870 --> 00:11:26.930 and so it's gone from getting it wrong to getting it right, and then getting 135 00:11:26.930 --> 00:11:31.880 it writer and writer as you dial things up, but we're, you know, we are on that 136 00:11:31.880 --> 00:11:35.330 journey and we're beginning to do things, you know, and to your point 137 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:41.700 early uh offer pop ups to those who we know, are not known to us, the users 138 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:46.210 who come in who aren't registered, saying, you know, the opportunity to 139 00:11:46.210 --> 00:11:50.800 get content like this in your inbox, and uh, you know, or here's another 140 00:11:50.800 --> 00:11:56.120 link to something else you would like and slowly walk people or journey, you 141 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.100 know, have people, you know, go on a content journey that again, 142 00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:03.860 demonstrates the value of these brands and these, you know, these platforms so 143 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:08.320 that they want to come back for more and that we can capture, capture their 144 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:14.610 information in order to Send them things. That ultimately, the goal is to 145 00:12:14.620 --> 00:12:18.260 get people who will want to give us their information. There is 146 00:12:18.270 --> 00:12:23.410 particularly their email address so that we can communicate them 1-1. So to 147 00:12:23.410 --> 00:12:27.250 shift the focus a little bit, let's talk about strategy and execution, 148 00:12:27.260 --> 00:12:30.420 setting all this stuff up is a lot of work requires a lot of people and a lot 149 00:12:30.420 --> 00:12:35.230 of like collaboration across different types of teams. You mentioned the pre 150 00:12:35.230 --> 00:12:40.590 interview that the team had a hard time executing uh in the beginning or they 151 00:12:40.590 --> 00:12:44.010 were executing really well actually, but they were still missing the mark in 152 00:12:44.010 --> 00:12:50.370 some ways. How were they missing the mark? So one of the visions I developed 153 00:12:50.380 --> 00:12:55.650 literally just when I came on board was, you hear the term shared service, you 154 00:12:55.650 --> 00:12:58.680 know, we came in and, and marketing is a shared service within the 155 00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:02.820 organization and I said, I want the mindset to go from being a shared 156 00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:08.730 service to a center of excellence. You may ask what does that mean or what's 157 00:13:08.730 --> 00:13:11.980 the difference and just it's it's as much of mindset as it is an approach. 158 00:13:11.980 --> 00:13:16.580 So the idea being as a shared service, you are, you're a ticketing system, 159 00:13:16.580 --> 00:13:20.440 Somebody says, I need this. You know, I'm ordering uh, you know, like a 160 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:24.600 restaurant, I, you know, I need burgers and fries and you punch out for burgers 161 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:31.390 and fries. But I wanted, you know, us too strive to be to aspire to be more 162 00:13:31.390 --> 00:13:36.810 of a uh, center of excellence born on, you know, subject matter experts who 163 00:13:36.810 --> 00:13:42.910 are driven to understand the data, understand audience and be included up 164 00:13:42.920 --> 00:13:48.750 up front before before the burger and fries were ordered so that we could be, 165 00:13:48.940 --> 00:13:52.170 you know, partners in developing well, should it be a burger and fries or this 166 00:13:52.170 --> 00:13:59.100 customer prefers vegetarian, so to speak, so so so that, you know, that's 167 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:02.410 kind of the over setting the overarching ambition and sometimes that 168 00:14:02.410 --> 00:14:07.170 alone is is a big step. But when you are a shared service and when you are a 169 00:14:07.170 --> 00:14:11.830 ticketing system, you, you know, you can become very execution, all focused 170 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:17.000 or even more so transactional focused. So marketing in a way can can become 171 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:22.300 and had to a degree become a group of people delivering on independent 172 00:14:22.310 --> 00:14:27.840 program. We need audience to come to a particular webinar. So and so franchise 173 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:33.030 has a program we want to get people in front of uh there's a B two B campaign. 174 00:14:33.030 --> 00:14:37.340 We need to drive for X. So that, you know, I would say it was very execution 175 00:14:37.340 --> 00:14:41.990 all focused. And I think where you know where we talked about in the pre pre 176 00:14:41.990 --> 00:14:50.710 conversation, there was almost a need to have people pause for a second and 177 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:57.320 ask the question why develop strategic approaches that are more holistic, more 178 00:14:57.340 --> 00:15:03.530 overarching than these one off individual focus? Is that what I keep 179 00:15:03.530 --> 00:15:08.250 saying? I still say literally every day to people is we need to flip the lens 180 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:14.170 from creating a product to understanding its for an audience and 181 00:15:14.170 --> 00:15:18.220 who that audience is. You know, I keep saying imagine turning your mind around 182 00:15:18.220 --> 00:15:23.610 to the people on the other side of that computer screen. You know, their eyes 183 00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:27.600 are on something that you're sending, what is it? How do you think about it? 184 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.780 Where did they come from? What else have they seen? What have they, you 185 00:15:30.780 --> 00:15:34.690 know, what's been their interaction with us? Um and all those things should 186 00:15:34.700 --> 00:15:40.500 play into that transactional execution. Um so basically I think you know, we 187 00:15:40.500 --> 00:15:46.910 needed to infuse the flawless execution with some strategic and overarching 188 00:15:46.910 --> 00:15:52.250 kind of holistic vision that informed it. I mean you know, I know you're you 189 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.390 know, I can see you and you're smiling because you know, we talked about also 190 00:15:56.390 --> 00:16:02.750 this had this belief, uh this idea of stratification that neither are greater 191 00:16:02.750 --> 00:16:08.560 than the other that you need to be, you know, both insight rich and audience 192 00:16:08.560 --> 00:16:13.120 focused, but you also need to be constantly iterating and be nimble and 193 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:17.940 be focused on the little things that every day make a difference between 194 00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:23.760 conversion rates and uh and success and failure. And I think you know the team 195 00:16:23.760 --> 00:16:28.080 was probably focused a little more on execution and we needed to dial it a 196 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:32.190 little more towards strategy and you know, which is interesting because my, 197 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.590 you know my my prior life when I came to this idea of Stratis que shin, I was 198 00:16:36.590 --> 00:16:41.890 probably in a world that was a little more beholden to this concept of 199 00:16:41.890 --> 00:16:49.890 strategy and almost like holding it as the bible or liturgy like here we we 200 00:16:49.890 --> 00:16:54.120 need a beautiful strategy. Uh In fact, I would argue, you know, I would joke 201 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:59.530 that sometimes I worked with clients who would, you know, the strategy was 202 00:16:59.540 --> 00:17:03.190 almost the end state. Like let's have a beautiful strategy will put it on our 203 00:17:03.190 --> 00:17:06.960 wall as if the, you know, as if the consumer, the customer would ever see 204 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.040 your strategy, which of course they wouldn't. Um and so that was where I 205 00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:15.750 had this, you know, this kind of ah ha moment that like execution really make 206 00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:19.069 the strategy. And I think, I don't know if it was tom peters or larry Bossidy 207 00:17:19.069 --> 00:17:24.619 who said strategy without execution is useless and execution without strategy 208 00:17:24.619 --> 00:17:29.780 is aimless. I mean, they do have to work together. Hi dan Sanchez here with 209 00:17:29.780 --> 00:17:34.240 a quick break from this episode, sponsor Vidyard. If you haven't started 210 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:38.690 using personal video yet to enhance your marketing campaigns. 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So sign up for Vidyard free today by going to Vidyard dot com slash 218 00:18:13.490 --> 00:18:18.300 GDP growth and just like you guys, the team at Vidyard can't keep up with all 219 00:18:18.300 --> 00:18:22.920 these promo codes on podcast, so they are making signing up as easy as 220 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.990 possible. So no promo code needed. Just go to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth 221 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:33.600 to start using Vidyard completely free and as a bonus, get their 2021 B two B 222 00:18:33.600 --> 00:18:39.350 video trans guide. It's absolutely right. I've actually had a background 223 00:18:39.350 --> 00:18:43.380 where people like to have a little bit more strategy than execution. It always 224 00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:46.330 drove me crazy. I'm like, we're literally talking about the strategy 225 00:18:46.330 --> 00:18:50.190 forever and not doing anything. So I tended to always be a little bit more 226 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:54.750 execution focused. But now of course you're right, it takes an equal amount 227 00:18:54.750 --> 00:18:58.230 of both. Right is best. It's interesting that they were doing 228 00:18:58.230 --> 00:19:01.910 execution well and you came in, you're like, hey everybody, we're all making 229 00:19:01.910 --> 00:19:05.150 separate side dishes, but we're bringing it together in the meal. It's 230 00:19:05.150 --> 00:19:08.680 okay. Everything's, everything's cooked phenomenal, everything tastes good, but 231 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.600 when you put it together, it's not working. And the customers expecting 232 00:19:12.600 --> 00:19:17.430 thanksgiving, which means it's wrong. Right? All right, so you have to bring 233 00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:20.760 it back to what are we trying to produce? Because everything has to 234 00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:25.120 actually make sense together, like a thanksgiving meal. We're so used to 235 00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:28.820 getting the right things produced together, which have a certain taste 236 00:19:28.820 --> 00:19:32.570 and flavor. When all eating together right, you have to decide what our end 237 00:19:32.570 --> 00:19:36.500 goals here instead of us, kind of off on our own separate worlds, cooking up 238 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:41.340 something that might be good in an event of itself. But when put together, 239 00:19:41.350 --> 00:19:48.900 it's subpar at best, yep. I mean, it's interesting, it aligns perfectly with 240 00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:55.800 the idea of these daily weekly, monthly quarterly cadence of meetings as well, 241 00:19:55.800 --> 00:20:01.130 because the idea is that at the end of the day, some of this should add up to 242 00:20:01.130 --> 00:20:06.670 something and the idea that executing should be leading towards something 243 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:11.670 that you're building towards a direction. I mean, this is one of the 244 00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:14.740 things like sometimes you put your head down, you're working hard and fast and 245 00:20:14.740 --> 00:20:18.020 furious and then when you look up you say, oh wow, I got somewhere, but it 246 00:20:18.020 --> 00:20:21.630 wasn't where I meant to be going. I mean we want to make sure we have a 247 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:26.920 direction of path, but interestingly, so, so you know, when I think back to, 248 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:33.840 when I came in execution was the focus and was excellent. But there was, there 249 00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:39.170 was opportunity there as well in that We needed to, you know, we continue to 250 00:20:39.170 --> 00:20:45.770 need to simplify and make repeatable things that are done in in large 251 00:20:45.770 --> 00:20:49.910 quantities. You know, there are types of, say webinars that we do where we'll 252 00:20:49.910 --> 00:20:57.320 do 150 a year. You can't start each marketing plan from with a blank piece 253 00:20:57.320 --> 00:21:03.230 of paper when you're doing 100 of something. Uh The idea of beginning to 254 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:08.560 standardize standardized roles and responsibilities, you know, streamline 255 00:21:08.560 --> 00:21:14.950 again, make repeatable is both efficient, but it also then allows 256 00:21:14.950 --> 00:21:18.950 those doing the work, especially in marketing to kind of elevate their work. 257 00:21:18.950 --> 00:21:23.720 They can put the focus more on things that really matter. Uh you know, like 258 00:21:23.730 --> 00:21:28.240 content and things that drive greater conversion and also audience 259 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.440 understanding, like the things that can can really drive success and failure. 260 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:37.970 So so that was that was an aspect of execution that we've been continually 261 00:21:37.970 --> 00:21:41.570 trying to drive as, you know, streamline, simplify, make repeatable 262 00:21:41.570 --> 00:21:46.060 wherever we can. But the flip side, you know, you get back to strategy is there, 263 00:21:46.070 --> 00:21:50.940 you know, there are a couple of things there. Um you know, one is and I have 264 00:21:50.940 --> 00:21:57.920 referenced this earlier on the idea to make sure everybody has in mind that 265 00:21:57.930 --> 00:22:02.080 our overarching mission as a, as a company is actually, we've all worked 266 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:06.580 at a bunch of different places and you know, sometimes companies work really 267 00:22:06.580 --> 00:22:10.700 hard to come up with with uh with uh, you know, some sort of passionate 268 00:22:10.700 --> 00:22:15.600 mission. You know, it can be helpful, but in our case, I mean it's it's 269 00:22:15.610 --> 00:22:22.470 really motivating because it's it's true. I mean, we are focused on helping 270 00:22:22.470 --> 00:22:28.920 to educate the health care workers so that they can improve patient care. I 271 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:34.150 mean, It's, you know, day in day out. It should stay front and center because 272 00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:38.150 it drives what we do and it should drive marketing, it should drive the 273 00:22:38.150 --> 00:22:42.770 initiatives that we're doing aren't just let's get 150 people to come to a 274 00:22:42.780 --> 00:22:49.660 to an event. It's we have an event that includes the leading experts on a 275 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:54.880 particular condition that's important to doctors and patients nationwide. And 276 00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:58.730 so we are spreading spreading the word. I mean, it's tough to think about that 277 00:22:58.730 --> 00:23:03.580 every, you know, every day when the pressure is on to deliver and execution 278 00:23:03.580 --> 00:23:08.630 is a can be can be tricky. But that is at the end of the day, what we're all 279 00:23:08.630 --> 00:23:13.410 about and that does I think help us lift, you know, lift our our approach 280 00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:18.010 is absolutely. It's like with a mission like that essentially, you're, it adds 281 00:23:18.010 --> 00:23:23.470 up to saving lives. You're right. We don't execute, people are going to die, 282 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:27.500 you know who they are. But I mean, you could look at it, it's kind of like a 283 00:23:27.500 --> 00:23:31.610 morbid way to look at it. Or you can say like this many more people could be 284 00:23:31.610 --> 00:23:36.280 safe or live longer or at least go through a much more comfortable 285 00:23:36.290 --> 00:23:39.500 experience going through whatever tragic event they might be going 286 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:43.010 through, especially with things like oncology. Right? In advertising, the 287 00:23:43.010 --> 00:23:45.970 joke was always, you know, because it can get very pressurized, you know, 288 00:23:45.970 --> 00:23:51.220 it's like, hey, it's not brain surgery, you know, here it is. We are talking 289 00:23:51.220 --> 00:23:56.700 about that some serious reading stuff, but at the same time it's important for 290 00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:59.510 everybody to know that their work actually matters. Right? I mean, it's 291 00:23:59.510 --> 00:24:04.090 kind of one of Patrick lynch owns three signs of a miserable job is not knowing 292 00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:07.900 if your work matters. And I'm like, oh, everybody at M. J. H. Knows their work 293 00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:11.020 matters because you're literally the work you're doing saves lives. It's 294 00:24:11.020 --> 00:24:17.140 fantastic. So to kind of spin back on to strategy and execution, you've had 295 00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:20.530 experience across multiple companies and you've visited and probably 296 00:24:20.530 --> 00:24:25.020 consulted many more now, where do you feel like most companies are missing it 297 00:24:25.020 --> 00:24:31.200 when it comes to strategy and execution? You know my my experience to date 298 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:36.620 probably would say that you know I think many companies try to get 299 00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:42.530 strategy right where at the end of the day I don't think there is right and 300 00:24:42.530 --> 00:24:48.570 wrong. I think there's good and better and less good and I do believe that 301 00:24:48.570 --> 00:24:56.740 strategy is really made right by the work and the activity you do. I am. 302 00:24:56.750 --> 00:25:02.670 I've always been inspired by a quote from Herb Kelleher where you know the 303 00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:07.570 founder of Southwest Airlines where he said we have a business strategy. It's 304 00:25:07.570 --> 00:25:13.490 called doing things. And I think a lot a lot of companies um you know like we 305 00:25:13.490 --> 00:25:19.090 said get a lot of consultants or a lot of high priced thinkers to I. D. Eight 306 00:25:19.090 --> 00:25:25.000 for months and months and have a strategy that they fall in love with 307 00:25:25.010 --> 00:25:28.870 but don't then activate on it day in and day out and test it and tease it 308 00:25:28.870 --> 00:25:34.500 and torture it and and adapt it. Um And then you know the real world can be a 309 00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:39.460 tough can be a tough teacher as well and so you know getting you're getting 310 00:25:39.460 --> 00:25:45.740 your strategy into the real world and learning as you go is really I think a 311 00:25:45.740 --> 00:25:50.330 strategy in and of itself. You know the idea of being in beta all the time and 312 00:25:50.330 --> 00:25:54.640 you know getting your strategy getting to strategy kind of more quickly so 313 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:59.770 that you can learn in the real world I think is it is really a better approach. 314 00:25:59.780 --> 00:26:03.210 It makes so much sense taking some of the lean startup methodologies and just 315 00:26:03.210 --> 00:26:07.350 applying it to your business strategy, starting with something lean and then 316 00:26:07.350 --> 00:26:10.300 iterating and improving as we move along. I mean that's why a lot of 317 00:26:10.300 --> 00:26:13.820 people got away from business plans for a long time because you're putting so 318 00:26:13.820 --> 00:26:17.530 much time into the beginning of it and then with the world would hit it and 319 00:26:17.530 --> 00:26:21.030 then everything would fall apart right? If only we could spend a little bit 320 00:26:21.030 --> 00:26:23.850 sometime certainly want to think about the strategy, certainly want to think 321 00:26:23.850 --> 00:26:28.410 about what we're expecting to happen and then being able to modify it as we 322 00:26:28.410 --> 00:26:32.850 go along, which is why regular meetings and quarterly check ins are so 323 00:26:32.850 --> 00:26:39.680 important. Right? 100%. I mean, and that's not to say strategy is either 324 00:26:39.690 --> 00:26:46.350 unimportant or that strategy isn't about understanding your your user, 325 00:26:46.350 --> 00:26:50.980 like deeply understanding your users and deeply understanding your market 326 00:26:50.990 --> 00:26:56.040 and your competitors and understanding what you're good at and what where you 327 00:26:56.040 --> 00:27:01.700 can go and where you shouldn't go and then, you know, developing hypotheses 328 00:27:01.700 --> 00:27:06.210 and plans. I mean, all those things are critical, but I do think we get a 329 00:27:06.220 --> 00:27:11.030 little overly caught up in, you know, getting getting a strategy perfect, 330 00:27:11.040 --> 00:27:16.950 perfected or perfect where there is really no such thing. Yeah. So if I'm 331 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.900 hearing you right, and I'm trying to take some insights away for B two B 332 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:24.360 marketing leaders, some things they can start and stop doing this week so far, 333 00:27:24.840 --> 00:27:28.350 some of the things I'm walking away with personally is, yes, it's good to 334 00:27:28.350 --> 00:27:32.580 have a strategy but execute on it probably a little faster than you 335 00:27:32.580 --> 00:27:37.310 normally would. How fast would you like? How much time should you spend thinking 336 00:27:37.310 --> 00:27:41.730 about strategy and how much time should you be actually Iterating on to it. You 337 00:27:41.730 --> 00:27:44.070 know, it's kind of difficult to discern. Sometimes you're like, oh, should we 338 00:27:44.070 --> 00:27:47.130 change the strategy? When should we hold on to it versus when should we 339 00:27:47.130 --> 00:27:51.440 break away from it and change the strategy? Because the execution we're 340 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:56.460 doing is now telling us that maybe our strategy wasn't as solid as we thought, 341 00:27:56.940 --> 00:28:02.700 how do you know when to break? It's a tough thing to discern because what is, 342 00:28:02.710 --> 00:28:07.820 you know, when does strategy stop? You know, you can make a strategy to 343 00:28:07.830 --> 00:28:16.310 develop a, an email journey for your prospects? That is, I mean, is that 344 00:28:16.310 --> 00:28:20.850 strategy to say like, hey, we want to then make this, make that email journey 345 00:28:20.860 --> 00:28:27.480 um dynamic to the way they respond to the first, you know, the first contact 346 00:28:27.490 --> 00:28:31.780 and how many prongs should this? And I think not actually, now that I think 347 00:28:31.780 --> 00:28:36.070 about it, that's truly an execution. So your strategy would be develop a B two 348 00:28:36.070 --> 00:28:40.730 B approach that leverages content marketing and outbound email that blah, 349 00:28:40.730 --> 00:28:45.940 blah, blah. Really? So now, having thought this through, I think your 350 00:28:45.940 --> 00:28:51.860 strategy should be 25% and 75% should be really working through 351 00:28:52.940 --> 00:28:57.140 How to implement it. And you know, that's why I call it's tragic Yushin 352 00:28:57.140 --> 00:29:00.920 because I think there is no such thing as execution. Well, I don't know if 353 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:05.790 there is no such thing, but a big part of execution is strategic execution, 354 00:29:05.800 --> 00:29:13.030 meaning we're going to implement a B2B email journey. But now, how many touch 355 00:29:13.030 --> 00:29:19.100 points, what are the touch points? Do we segmented by uh type of customer? 356 00:29:19.100 --> 00:29:24.360 And um you know, do we require, do we get things, do we, you know, all these 357 00:29:24.360 --> 00:29:30.290 questions that you need to solve for? Um they are strategic strategically 358 00:29:30.290 --> 00:29:36.310 execution all makes sense. Almost wonder if You set these large marketing 359 00:29:36.310 --> 00:29:40.900 strategies. I know I said of marketing strategy for 2021, right? Some things 360 00:29:40.910 --> 00:29:43.940 can be changed sooner rather than later because they're short term tactics and 361 00:29:43.940 --> 00:29:46.740 some things are long term tactics like I won't see the R. O. I. From some of 362 00:29:46.740 --> 00:29:49.830 these things for like a year and a half. Right? Especially with like search 363 00:29:49.830 --> 00:29:52.800 engine optimization ranking for more keywords. Those things take a lot of 364 00:29:52.800 --> 00:29:58.510 time almost imagine that your strategy can be changed in small ways on a 365 00:29:58.510 --> 00:30:01.700 weekly levels, you're getting new information you're executing, but big 366 00:30:01.700 --> 00:30:04.820 things, probably more on a quarterly levels. Your meeting back with the 367 00:30:04.830 --> 00:30:08.470 senior team, right? If you're doing the whole, especially if you're doing the 368 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.750 Rockefeller habits and the scaling up attraction methodologies where you're 369 00:30:11.750 --> 00:30:15.130 having the quarterly check ins to see how well things are going. Well, 370 00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:19.090 everyone's executing on their rocks. Those are big opportunities to make 371 00:30:19.100 --> 00:30:23.350 bigger changes to the strategy because honestly, sometimes the market change 372 00:30:23.360 --> 00:30:28.240 changes. I'm sure a lot of people are updating their quarters after covid hit, 373 00:30:28.250 --> 00:30:32.330 right. There was just some big changes everybody was making after the pandemic 374 00:30:32.330 --> 00:30:36.550 started becoming a thing. So there's probably a rhythm like that though. Of 375 00:30:36.550 --> 00:30:40.110 course it depends for each line item on your on your strategy that you're 376 00:30:40.110 --> 00:30:43.800 trying to execute. Some things are just going to be different. But almost think 377 00:30:43.800 --> 00:30:49.120 like a weekly quarterly rhythm. And of course for the 10 year executions, your 378 00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:55.090 annuals are what help you get realigned um, on your long term goals and 379 00:30:55.090 --> 00:30:58.220 priorities would you say that feels about right? Yeah, I think that's right. 380 00:30:58.220 --> 00:31:02.550 I mean, I think the one thing I would say that you have to be careful of is 381 00:31:02.580 --> 00:31:09.920 to not overcorrect. I think people get really nervous when measuring 382 00:31:09.930 --> 00:31:17.780 performance and the data suggests something didn't work. Or there's some, 383 00:31:17.790 --> 00:31:22.730 you know, negative data. Uh, and what I always like to say is that there is no 384 00:31:22.730 --> 00:31:27.440 negative data. There's just data that confirms, you know, confirms direction 385 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.980 or confirmed hypothesis and and data that says something isn't aligning or 386 00:31:31.980 --> 00:31:36.610 isn't jibing and each of which can help you either course correct or optimize. 387 00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:40.440 But the thing you don't want to do is react to every every little piece of 388 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.050 data and keep changing. You know, not only is that you're gonna be all over 389 00:31:44.050 --> 00:31:49.070 the road, but also, um, if you make too many changes, you can't even identify 390 00:31:49.070 --> 00:31:56.060 what the actual drivers of of, you know, of performance will be. You do have to, 391 00:31:56.070 --> 00:32:01.170 you do have to make sure you're you're not doing weekly, you know, execution 392 00:32:01.170 --> 00:32:06.230 all shifts right. I would say small, small tweaks changes, you know, updates. 393 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.840 I wouldn't be shifting from one thing to something completely different 394 00:32:09.840 --> 00:32:13.660 because of the data. Right? I even saw a graph this morning on linkedin that's 395 00:32:13.660 --> 00:32:17.810 kind of like because just comparing even launching a normal marketing 396 00:32:17.810 --> 00:32:21.440 campaign to an A. B. M. Campaign and a normal marketing campaign, you can 397 00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:25.930 always expect like a loss for quite a while before you even hit a break even 398 00:32:25.940 --> 00:32:30.690 and then start to see a return on the investment. And in this particular 399 00:32:30.690 --> 00:32:34.070 graph, the A B. M. Campaign took a loss for a lot longer and then started to 400 00:32:34.070 --> 00:32:39.030 shoot way past a normal execution. Of course. That depends on whether A B. M. 401 00:32:39.040 --> 00:32:43.020 Works well for your organization, how good you executed it of course. But it 402 00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:46.350 certainly goes to show like, like for a lot of marketing campaigns you can 403 00:32:46.350 --> 00:32:50.960 actually expect a negative. So don't don't freak out. Right. Well, that also 404 00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:55.850 gets into sort of the R. O. I. Question like how slavishly should you be 405 00:32:55.850 --> 00:33:00.950 looking at either R. O. I. Or even the data to help, you know, attribution 406 00:33:00.950 --> 00:33:03.840 being accurate and things like that. Sometimes you just have to do some 407 00:33:03.840 --> 00:33:09.390 things and they're contributing without necessarily looking for a direct line 408 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:17.270 uh connection to our Oh, I absolutely easy to say. I know Roo is a tricky one. 409 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.030 Certainly. So Michael, this has been a fantastic time talking to you about 410 00:33:22.030 --> 00:33:25.880 strategy and execution and the customer journey on the show today. Where can 411 00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:31.680 people go to learn more about M. J. H. And about you? So we do have a 412 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:38.750 corporate website. M. J. H. Life sciences dot com. Um There also, as I 413 00:33:38.750 --> 00:33:43.300 mentioned are a number of websites and you can see them on that site. But you 414 00:33:43.300 --> 00:33:51.070 know, things like ONc live and uh a J M C dot com and uh cure dot com and P E R 415 00:33:51.070 --> 00:33:57.220 Physicians, Education Resources, which is go to p E R dot com. Those are just 416 00:33:57.220 --> 00:34:06.110 some of our websites as far as me, I I'm on linkedin, Michael be a er and 417 00:34:06.120 --> 00:34:10.370 also had been writing a blog for a number of years at stratification 418 00:34:10.370 --> 00:34:15.800 stories dot com. It's fairly outdated so I almost hesitate but feel free to 419 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.870 read some of the things I've written on, things like stratification and 420 00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:23.389 otherwise. Fantastic. Again, thank you for joining me on GDP growth. Thanks 421 00:34:23.389 --> 00:34:24.670 dan. It's been great to be here. 422 00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:30.989 Is your buyer at BBB marketer. If so, you should think about sponsoring this 423 00:34:30.989 --> 00:34:35.940 podcast. BtB Growth gets downloaded over 130,000 times each month. And our 424 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:39.760 listeners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting, send Logan 425 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:44.060 and email Logan at sweet fish Media dot com.
