How to Build a Four-Point Demand Gen Strategy

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:03.450 Yeah. Mhm. 2 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:08.790 What's up everybody? Welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with 3 00:00:08.790 --> 00:00:12.560 Sweet Fish Media and today we are continuing our deep dive into demand 4 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:17.470 generation. I'm really, really excited to have joining me Brett trainer, host 5 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:22.470 of BTB founder, a weekly podcast focused on helping BTB founders and 6 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:26.310 owners go from a startup to scale up Brett, thanks so much for joining me on 7 00:00:26.310 --> 00:00:30.270 GDP growth today. Lastly it's my pleasure. You know, I'm a big fan of 8 00:00:30.270 --> 00:00:34.930 this show, so happy to be here and this is our first time talking, I think this 9 00:00:34.930 --> 00:00:38.690 is a repeat visit for me to that to the program, but you know excited to be 10 00:00:38.690 --> 00:00:42.750 here and to I have to give a little bit of a shout out that you were one of the 11 00:00:42.750 --> 00:00:47.360 folks that really helped me get the podcast up and running Back in the day 12 00:00:47.360 --> 00:00:52.240 100-plus episodes ago. So thank you for that as well. Yeah, I'm so excited to 13 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:55.060 have seen how much your podcast has grown, which is why I really wanted to 14 00:00:55.060 --> 00:00:59.570 talk to you today because it's cool to see, you know, how you have helped so 15 00:00:59.570 --> 00:01:05.470 many founders go from start up to scale up and so I'm really excited and as you 16 00:01:05.470 --> 00:01:09.290 know, we're talking about demand generation today, so I'm curious before 17 00:01:09.290 --> 00:01:14.110 we get a little too deep here in your own words, how would you define demand 18 00:01:14.110 --> 00:01:18.590 generation? Yeah, it's funny, I think over the past five years it's really 19 00:01:18.590 --> 00:01:22.940 changed. I used to run a demand Generation team, but I think, you know, 20 00:01:22.940 --> 00:01:26.210 part of it now is you have to look at demand gen as an organizational 21 00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:33.820 approach, right? And it can't just be paid facebook ads, it's going to divide 22 00:01:33.830 --> 00:01:37.530 demand. It's really got to be an organizational approach to connecting 23 00:01:37.530 --> 00:01:41.760 with, connecting with your prospects. And I think one of the biggest things 24 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:47.380 that shifted and rightfully so is kind of, you know, turning the script a 25 00:01:47.380 --> 00:01:52.580 little bit and thinking less about selling right, and more about how do we 26 00:01:52.580 --> 00:01:56.620 enable our buyers? Right, So are we targeting with problems that we're 27 00:01:56.620 --> 00:02:00.410 solving our, we still leading with features and benefits and and how good 28 00:02:00.410 --> 00:02:05.410 we are? So to me that's the biggest thing, it's just not uh you know, play 29 00:02:05.410 --> 00:02:08.940 customer experience is no longer just customer service, it's it's 30 00:02:08.940 --> 00:02:13.850 organizational, I think the same things applying to demand generation. Yeah, 31 00:02:13.860 --> 00:02:17.400 absolutely, and you kind of leaned into this little, but one of my favorite 32 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:21.690 things you've talked about lately on your lengthen um is actually growth as 33 00:02:21.690 --> 00:02:25.410 a mindset. And I do want to talk about that because I think it's something 34 00:02:25.410 --> 00:02:30.500 that's so important in this industry and You know, something I feel a lot of 35 00:02:30.500 --> 00:02:34.710 B2B marketers tend to get wrong is focusing on growth from more of a sales 36 00:02:34.710 --> 00:02:38.630 perspective rather than a buyer's perspective. Uh, so what would you say 37 00:02:38.630 --> 00:02:42.670 is so important about shifting that focus? Yeah, I think that's, it's a 38 00:02:42.670 --> 00:02:47.770 great point and so true because you know, a stat I read not too long ago, 39 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:50.170 which surprised me, I haven't seen it earlier, is that, you know, at any 40 00:02:50.170 --> 00:02:57.090 given moment, only three of your ideal fire is actually in by now mode. So 41 00:02:57.090 --> 00:03:00.320 that means if you're looking at demand gen in the traditional sense is more 42 00:03:00.320 --> 00:03:04.390 transactional, I would say, right, so how do we connect with somebody and get 43 00:03:04.390 --> 00:03:09.150 them to buy our stuff? And I think if you change that to a growth mindset and 44 00:03:09.150 --> 00:03:13.250 say, hey look, not all of this is going to happen today, he would be great if 45 00:03:13.250 --> 00:03:17.590 we could connect with those 3% and get him to buy tomorrow. But the reality of 46 00:03:17.590 --> 00:03:22.530 the situation, it's a longer game and so demand gen has got to be broken into 47 00:03:22.530 --> 00:03:26.870 kind of those different parts and I think it must be organization, 48 00:03:26.880 --> 00:03:31.140 especially in a startup, doesn't think about it from a growth perspective or a 49 00:03:31.140 --> 00:03:35.330 growth mindset versus a transactional mindset, you know, it's gonna be a 50 00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:41.210 really long road to achieve their goals and growth goals. Yeah, something you 51 00:03:41.210 --> 00:03:45.050 said another time was, I think it's in your linked in profile is change is 52 00:03:45.050 --> 00:03:49.030 inevitable, growth is optional and I just, I love that because it's so, so 53 00:03:49.030 --> 00:03:55.220 accurate in this specific field. Yeah, no, I think it absolutely is. And you 54 00:03:55.220 --> 00:03:58.800 know, one of the things that drew me back into the start up world a number 55 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:03.070 of years ago was, you know, growth in the startup in B two B. Not even growth 56 00:04:03.070 --> 00:04:06.660 in the start up growth in the B two B space is very nuanced, right? It's just 57 00:04:06.660 --> 00:04:11.900 not you can't just do one thing like a direct consumer on a website yourself, 58 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:15.000 you connect with this customer, they buy your product, right? I mean you've 59 00:04:15.010 --> 00:04:20.149 got Multiple buyers typically, right, when you're selling in the B2B space, 60 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.360 you've got the timing issue, you know, they may not be aware of the product or 61 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:29.140 solution that you have. So it becomes very nuanced and you know, that's why I 62 00:04:29.140 --> 00:04:32.600 you know, change is going to happen. Your buyers preferences are going to 63 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.730 change and if you don't have the ability to shift, you know, you're 64 00:04:36.730 --> 00:04:40.870 gonna have a hard time, you know, staying the port and keep growing. I 65 00:04:40.870 --> 00:04:44.510 think we're seeing a lot of companies now when the digital or the pandemic 66 00:04:44.510 --> 00:04:50.030 hit, having trouble connecting. We're in a digital first world. So you know, 67 00:04:50.030 --> 00:04:52.420 like said change is gonna keep happening. I think it's gonna keep 68 00:04:52.420 --> 00:04:57.460 happening more and more rapidly. So how do we embrace that to get to the growth? 69 00:04:57.740 --> 00:05:02.690 Absolutely. What is something that you think B2B marketers in this industry 70 00:05:02.690 --> 00:05:07.600 need to stop doing? Yeah. I think the biggest one and I've been on the 71 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:12.260 soapbox for a while is talking about the sales and marketing alignment, 72 00:05:12.270 --> 00:05:16.530 right? So if you're a younger growing organization, you don't have those 73 00:05:16.530 --> 00:05:22.370 silos in place yet and it really has to be um like I said, I wouldn't 74 00:05:22.370 --> 00:05:26.730 necessarily lead with marketer, but I'm thinking from a growth perspective, you 75 00:05:26.730 --> 00:05:31.620 know, think about it. How do I connect with my prospects? Where are they? 76 00:05:31.630 --> 00:05:35.130 Right. We've seen the preferences changing. They like to do the research, 77 00:05:35.140 --> 00:05:38.570 right. They want to be able to solve their own problems and guess what 78 00:05:38.570 --> 00:05:42.670 they're going to vet you before they even talk to you. So I think taking 79 00:05:42.670 --> 00:05:47.140 back to what we originally talked about more of a buyer enablement approach is 80 00:05:47.140 --> 00:05:51.890 going to enable you to better not only connect because I think one of the 81 00:05:51.890 --> 00:05:55.720 bigger, bigger issues between the sales and marketing is, you can't look at it 82 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:59.580 as a handoff. Right? So if we think about it from back to buyer enablement, 83 00:05:59.580 --> 00:06:04.080 which is becoming a theme that hey, the prospect, yeah, they found your content 84 00:06:04.080 --> 00:06:08.510 somewhere on linked in or on the website or a referral or a customer and 85 00:06:08.510 --> 00:06:11.510 they're checking it out and now they're raising their hand and say, hey, I'd 86 00:06:11.510 --> 00:06:15.920 like to chat with somebody too many small businesses. And I would even say 87 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:20.230 Legacy and enterprise companies struggle with helping that process or 88 00:06:20.230 --> 00:06:25.180 prospect through the buying process right too often. We define it on our 89 00:06:25.180 --> 00:06:30.290 terms as the, the company, right? Hey, this is our sales process. This is, you 90 00:06:30.290 --> 00:06:35.290 know how we do demos. If you flip that switch and think about it and map it 91 00:06:35.290 --> 00:06:39.430 back from how the buyer wants to buy, you're going to take a lot of friction 92 00:06:39.440 --> 00:06:43.510 out of the process. I know a little attention there that ask your question. 93 00:06:43.520 --> 00:06:47.090 Yeah, No. Yeah. I think that sales and marketing alignment is really important. 94 00:06:47.090 --> 00:06:49.550 It's something I've been learning a lot about because it's something that 95 00:06:49.840 --> 00:06:53.590 people just don't think about, but it really is so simple just to look 96 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:58.300 internally and it's, it's really an organizational fix. And you know, that 97 00:06:58.300 --> 00:07:03.290 conflict kind of comes from, I mean, it could be something so simple as having 98 00:07:03.290 --> 00:07:06.530 sales and marketing get together and really defining the leads. I mean, just 99 00:07:06.530 --> 00:07:11.560 going back to, you know, step one, like what, what is a lied to us. And I think 100 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:15.500 that's why there's so much conflict there. And I would even take that even 101 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:19.630 a step further and say there are no there is no such thing as a marketing 102 00:07:19.630 --> 00:07:23.910 qualified lead. Now, this is my humble opinion that you write, either the 103 00:07:23.910 --> 00:07:28.970 buyer is ready to buy, so it's all intent, Right? So, you know, I may come 104 00:07:28.970 --> 00:07:33.360 to your website, download a couple of white papers, you know, fill out and 105 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.400 sign up for your newsletter. That doesn't mean I'm ready to buy. I 106 00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:42.060 haven't raised my hand and said, yeah, let's engage. Right? So don't force 107 00:07:42.060 --> 00:07:47.090 your prospects through the buying process. And I think even just going 108 00:07:47.090 --> 00:07:50.750 back, So, you know, I came from the sales world initially. So you know, 109 00:07:50.750 --> 00:07:55.010 it's kind of, it's been a mindset shift for me, right? Because sales used to be 110 00:07:55.010 --> 00:07:59.030 the driver for a lot of organizations and specifically around revenue growth. 111 00:07:59.030 --> 00:08:02.880 We can get into, you know, expansion and retention and how do you keep your 112 00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:07.150 current customers? But from a new business perspective, I think if you're 113 00:08:07.150 --> 00:08:11.830 leading with sales and using that as a cold outreach, you know, I I look at 114 00:08:11.830 --> 00:08:15.480 his sales as a hand to hand combat, right? So each sales rep can do really 115 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:17.820 well. And if you have good sales rep, guess what? They're gonna hit their 116 00:08:17.820 --> 00:08:21.970 quota. They're going to do well. But I wouldn't bet my growth of a company on 117 00:08:21.970 --> 00:08:26.260 that strategy, right? Because that you can have 100 people having to hit their 118 00:08:26.260 --> 00:08:30.370 quota. And if you see the, you know, the data doesn't support that, that 119 00:08:30.370 --> 00:08:33.640 many are hitting it. So I think that's why it's got to switch to more of a 120 00:08:33.640 --> 00:08:39.600 digital first and then having the right resources available when that customer 121 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:44.570 prospect raises their hand to to engage with you. So one of the things I advise 122 00:08:44.570 --> 00:08:48.110 my clients is don't even think of it that way. Let's think about, hey, the 123 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:52.300 prospects out there, if they message somebody from linkedin or drop us a 124 00:08:52.300 --> 00:08:56.750 note, you know, how do we respond to that? And in the way again, encourage 125 00:08:56.750 --> 00:09:00.730 them to think about think of your, your first level human content is kind of 126 00:09:00.730 --> 00:09:04.610 the caceres helped them through that buying process, right? You don't want 127 00:09:04.610 --> 00:09:08.100 to necessarily hit the sales switch immediately because you're going to 128 00:09:08.100 --> 00:09:12.710 turn them off and you usually only have one chance. Now that's not to say that 129 00:09:12.710 --> 00:09:18.340 there is not a point for for sales reps, right? Enterprise selling. Absolutely. 130 00:09:18.340 --> 00:09:22.770 You need those talented folks. And I would also argue that as you're getting 131 00:09:22.770 --> 00:09:26.270 close and the customer is definitely interested in asking for that customers 132 00:09:26.270 --> 00:09:30.990 business. You know, not everybody is cut out for it. So I think it just 133 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:34.440 again comes back to that mindset and how do you map to align with the 134 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:39.950 customer or the prospect and have the right human touch? Where where it makes 135 00:09:39.950 --> 00:09:43.500 sense? I mean that is the only way you're gonna scale a business yet to 136 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:48.460 see anybody do it otherwise. So hopefully it made sense. No, that's 137 00:09:48.460 --> 00:09:51.430 okay. I love it. And this actually segues really well. Kind of talking 138 00:09:51.430 --> 00:09:54.960 about going start up to scale up. You and I were talking previously about a 139 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.930 four point framework and I was wondering if you would dive into that a 140 00:09:57.930 --> 00:10:01.570 little bit with for our listeners. Yeah, absolutely. And we already covered 141 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:05.760 pieces of it. But you know, this is something that I've been using for 142 00:10:05.760 --> 00:10:09.250 quite a while, but finally wrote it down and documented and kind of 143 00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:15.480 formalized it. But this goes back to be, to be growth is very nuanced. And what 144 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:20.690 this framework allows for is to plan for for each of those areas. And, you 145 00:10:20.690 --> 00:10:25.690 know, an easy way to remember is Aces Right? A C E S. I know I didn't fit the 146 00:10:25.690 --> 00:10:31.580 words to fit the acronym that just happened to work out that way. But uh, 147 00:10:31.590 --> 00:10:36.130 you know, a is is the is the initial, it's the alignment and the way I like 148 00:10:36.130 --> 00:10:39.740 to to kind of outlined this. It's it's really around your messaging and 149 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:45.460 positioning and making sure one your message, right, What your offer is 150 00:10:45.460 --> 00:10:50.430 aligned with who you're serving, right? If your offer and solution isn't 151 00:10:50.430 --> 00:10:54.410 aligned with what your ideal customers are buying or if your customers change, 152 00:10:54.420 --> 00:10:58.010 you know, to making sure those two things are aligned. But a lot of 153 00:10:58.010 --> 00:11:02.750 companies probably get that right. But the third piece of the alignment is, 154 00:11:02.760 --> 00:11:07.330 you know, your company's why can almost do a whole segment on, you know, why 155 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:11.250 are we in business? I know Sweet Fish does a really good job of articulating 156 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:17.330 that. But important internally is to make sure those three. So your company, 157 00:11:17.330 --> 00:11:21.780 why you're offering and your customers need to align because if there's, you 158 00:11:21.780 --> 00:11:25.280 know, misalignment or a mismatch, then you're creating friction and it's going 159 00:11:25.280 --> 00:11:30.340 to be really hard to connect with those prospects. So, you know, I said, we 160 00:11:30.340 --> 00:11:33.580 could do almost an episode on this piece of it. But if you can't get that 161 00:11:33.580 --> 00:11:38.130 part right, you know, then when you get into the execution aspect of it, you're 162 00:11:38.130 --> 00:11:42.280 already at a disadvantage. So I really encourage folks to take the time to go 163 00:11:42.280 --> 00:11:46.180 through this. So let's assume we've got that, we've got our message. Everything 164 00:11:46.180 --> 00:11:50.390 is aligned organization, we're ready to go. It's like how do we execute and 165 00:11:50.390 --> 00:11:54.280 instead of the seventh step buyer journey and all these other things, 166 00:11:54.280 --> 00:11:58.280 which I'm a fan of, you know, I broke it into, you know, really three pieces. 167 00:11:58.280 --> 00:12:01.840 The first is being connect, Right? How are we going to connect with those 168 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:06.070 prospects? We talked about a little bit at any given point, only three are 169 00:12:06.070 --> 00:12:10.470 actively buying, which means you need to be out there with, you know, content 170 00:12:10.470 --> 00:12:14.280 first, right against Sweet fish, does a really good job between linked in the 171 00:12:14.280 --> 00:12:19.960 podcast content providing a ton of value to potential future customers. So 172 00:12:20.340 --> 00:12:23.880 it's really using that hockey analogy that how we're going to be there for 173 00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:27.310 customers when they're ready for us, right? You can't be always chasing or 174 00:12:27.310 --> 00:12:33.000 pushing. It's just not a good long term strategy. I think again, the new world 175 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:36.760 order is organic, and S. C. O. Are still critical because customers are 176 00:12:36.760 --> 00:12:41.920 searching for solutions and I'll come back to tie to the new business after 177 00:12:41.920 --> 00:12:44.010 that. So, that's really the connect. All right, So how are we going to 178 00:12:44.010 --> 00:12:47.860 connect with our our new prospects? The second is enablement. Right? I've 179 00:12:47.860 --> 00:12:51.220 talked about that a couple times already is. Alright, so somebody's 180 00:12:51.220 --> 00:12:54.200 raised their hand. How do we get them through that process? Right with this 181 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:59.910 minimal time and friction and possibly get into that buying decisions. So, 182 00:12:59.910 --> 00:13:03.110 changing the mindset from sales, enablement to buy our enablement but 183 00:13:03.110 --> 00:13:06.760 don't stop there. So, if we talk about enablement, we bring somebody on board 184 00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:12.130 and then are we enabling our customers to unlock the value of our offering 185 00:13:12.140 --> 00:13:16.440 without being too cliche But many companies make the mistake Alright. We 186 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.090 sold them. Let's throw them over the fence. You know, we've got an on 187 00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:22.750 boarding team and maybe a customer successor account management. Very few 188 00:13:22.750 --> 00:13:26.590 companies still have a plan, so if you're in the start up phase and you 189 00:13:26.590 --> 00:13:30.860 can build this into the DNA of your organization, you're going to be light 190 00:13:30.860 --> 00:13:36.170 years ahead. So that's really enabling and not just the prospect, then once 191 00:13:36.170 --> 00:13:41.480 they become customers and then last but not least is support right, are you 192 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:44.900 there to help your customers when they need it Because not everything is 193 00:13:44.910 --> 00:13:49.630 always going to go perfect and a lot of the times this support and service 194 00:13:49.640 --> 00:13:53.390 which you know you could argue could be part of enablement but I still look at 195 00:13:53.390 --> 00:13:58.120 enablement as more as processed and automation and support is really how do 196 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:03.300 we service our customers and what I kind of refer to a second ago is back 197 00:14:03.300 --> 00:14:07.450 to the sales cycle man, if you could develop some really passionate 198 00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:11.130 customers about your service and your business, they're going to help you 199 00:14:11.130 --> 00:14:14.480 sell right, they're gonna make the referrals, they're going to talk about 200 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:18.900 it on social and other areas, which just makes your life so much easier 201 00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:24.270 when you're trying to get back in and grow new business. So usually I can 202 00:14:24.280 --> 00:14:28.360 Leslie, I can talk about this for about hours. So I think that was my five 203 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:33.830 minute overview. So if you've got any questions please fire away. Oh no, I 204 00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:38.260 think this is so great. I think I think my favorite part of this is really the 205 00:14:38.260 --> 00:14:43.510 connect factor because it's kind of making yourself almost go to for that 206 00:14:43.510 --> 00:14:48.000 specific area. You know, you're not really targeting, but you're just 207 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.420 making yourself, you know, you're providing value, you're making yourself 208 00:14:51.420 --> 00:14:55.660 available and I think that's so important. Yeah, no 100%. Yeah, because 209 00:14:55.660 --> 00:14:59.080 if you can't connect with folks, you really don't need to enable and we're 210 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.080 supporting because you're not getting them through the through the pipeline. 211 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.780 And, you know, even though that's why these are all interconnected and like I 212 00:15:05.780 --> 00:15:08.950 said, I start from the alignment, because if you can't get the messaging 213 00:15:08.950 --> 00:15:12.170 right, it's gonna, you're gonna have trouble connecting and if you can't 214 00:15:12.170 --> 00:15:14.900 connect, then it's even harder to enable. But on the flip side, I would 215 00:15:14.900 --> 00:15:19.160 say, if you miss mishandle the enablement aspect of it, your turn 216 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:22.430 rates going to go up much higher or you may not even get as, you know, the 217 00:15:22.430 --> 00:15:26.680 close rate, as high as you want because the process wasn't easy for the buyer. 218 00:15:26.680 --> 00:15:31.360 So that's why I go back to, it's just not about demand jin and this is kind 219 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:36.120 of how I think about growth with demand, jin kind of being the engine, but 220 00:15:36.130 --> 00:15:40.000 unless you get all four parts working, you're not gonna, you're gonna have to 221 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.310 work twice as hard to get to the same revenue goals. Absolutely. And to 222 00:15:44.310 --> 00:15:47.820 anyone who's working in a start up or scale up organization and is listening 223 00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:51.870 to this and thinking, man, I really want to implement a demand jin strategy 224 00:15:51.870 --> 00:15:55.590 into my business, but maybe they don't have the resources, they don't have a 225 00:15:55.590 --> 00:15:59.680 specific person to sit in that role. Would you point them back to this 226 00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:02.360 framework and say, hey, this is where you need to start, you know, you have 227 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:06.240 to start with a line or would you point them in a different direction on where 228 00:16:06.250 --> 00:16:12.760 exactly would you start building that demand gen strategy? Yeah, it's a great 229 00:16:12.760 --> 00:16:15.910 question. But you know, this framework really works for businesses of all 230 00:16:15.910 --> 00:16:19.580 sizes. Right? So if you think about those four pieces at an enterprise or 231 00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:23.940 legacy company that's been in business for 30 years, they have a lot of work 232 00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:28.190 to do, probably mostly around the connect and the enabled piece of it to 233 00:16:28.190 --> 00:16:32.480 do it efficiently. And you know, the one of the things that I look at from a 234 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:35.640 growth stage, so the early stage of a startup, it's the founder and its 235 00:16:35.640 --> 00:16:39.300 founder led selling. The founders probably are the co founders are doing 236 00:16:39.300 --> 00:16:42.830 everything, but this framework still makes sense. Right? As you're starting 237 00:16:42.830 --> 00:16:46.670 to test your own messaging now, you're not going to have super documented 238 00:16:46.670 --> 00:16:51.340 processes or automation at this point in time, but if you think about it the 239 00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:56.110 same way you still want to start building this into the D N A. So, you 240 00:16:56.110 --> 00:17:01.160 know, I highly encourage folks, even if it's not super deep, initially start 241 00:17:01.160 --> 00:17:05.140 with this framework. Because one of the challenges that I found with the 242 00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:08.790 companies that do start to move from start up to scale up, is there 243 00:17:08.790 --> 00:17:12.810 scrambling to get processes in place or who are the folks that are going to do 244 00:17:12.810 --> 00:17:17.380 certain things? And like I said, if you start with kind of the general high 245 00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:21.569 level process, you can worry about who's going to do what later. I 246 00:17:21.569 --> 00:17:25.290 wouldn't spend days or weeks documenting processes when it's, you 247 00:17:25.290 --> 00:17:29.750 know, the founder and it may be a couple of folks, but I guess my advice 248 00:17:29.750 --> 00:17:33.870 is don't wait until you're really moving through the growth phase to try 249 00:17:33.870 --> 00:17:38.180 to get this these pieces into place. That's a really, really good advice 250 00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:40.970 because I feel like so many times people are like, well we're growing and 251 00:17:40.970 --> 00:17:43.960 we're getting there and we're not quite ready to roll this out yet and we're 252 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:48.120 not quite ready for this framework, but kind of just starting where you're at 253 00:17:48.120 --> 00:17:52.380 as you are, like you said, this works for all sizes, so that's great. Yeah, 254 00:17:52.390 --> 00:17:55.910 you can only pave the road as you're driving for so long before you run off 255 00:17:55.910 --> 00:18:01.900 the road, right, That's not mine, I forget who I should be able to get back 256 00:18:01.900 --> 00:18:05.080 to somebody, but I use that all the time because we're all we're all guilty 257 00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:09.770 of it and do a certain extent, you have to, but you know, think about what the 258 00:18:09.780 --> 00:18:15.760 crew is you need as you start to drive faster. Absolutely. And another 259 00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:20.090 question I had for you kind of going off on a different path here is how can 260 00:18:20.090 --> 00:18:24.490 start ups get demand jin wrong. We talked about this a little bit, but I 261 00:18:24.490 --> 00:18:28.280 wanted you to dive into that a little bit more. Yeah. I think the number one 262 00:18:28.280 --> 00:18:34.370 thing is when your outreach and connecting is trying to sell right 263 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:38.900 those days of the used car salesman saying, bye now, bye now, it just 264 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:43.400 doesn't, it's not gonna work. And I think if you take that, the value first 265 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:47.360 mindset, right? How do we provide good content? You know, the customers are 266 00:18:47.360 --> 00:18:50.470 going to tell you when, when they're ready. And I still think that is the 267 00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:56.510 number one that, you know, trying to sell too quickly and only and then two 268 00:18:56.520 --> 00:19:00.930 leading with, with features and benefits, right? You've got precious 269 00:19:00.930 --> 00:19:05.490 marketing dollars that you're using and hours that you're using. And if you're 270 00:19:05.490 --> 00:19:09.000 going out to folks say, hey, look at my newest technology or look at these 271 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.940 features and benefits and the customer does not care. They don't care about 272 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:17.530 their features and benefits. So you kind of flip that switch and think 273 00:19:17.530 --> 00:19:20.580 about what are the problems you're solving for these customers? Right. 274 00:19:20.580 --> 00:19:23.060 Super simple. What are the problem you're solving? How do you solve them 275 00:19:23.340 --> 00:19:28.310 and how do you solve them differently? And I think if you take that approach 276 00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:31.500 into the market with demand gents, which is kind of counter to demand. 277 00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:36.560 Cause I think everybody thinks that demand gen is no new business now and 278 00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:40.450 until you're established, it's gonna be really hard because people don't know 279 00:19:40.450 --> 00:19:43.500 you or they don't know they have a problem. You're gonna have a really 280 00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:49.030 hard time selling them. So yeah, I'm not saying it can happen, but I think 281 00:19:49.030 --> 00:19:55.000 those are the two biggest pieces that start ups and even enterprise spend too 282 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.820 much time on. That's great, Brett this has been so insightful. Thank you so 283 00:19:59.820 --> 00:20:02.570 much for joining me today and talking about this framework. I think this is 284 00:20:02.570 --> 00:20:06.800 gonna be huge for so many companies who are looking to implement a new demand 285 00:20:06.800 --> 00:20:11.630 gen strategy and I'm really excited about it. So where can people listening 286 00:20:11.630 --> 00:20:14.770 to this, find you online if they're interested in hearing more from you? 287 00:20:15.040 --> 00:20:18.300 Yeah, I mean the easiest place I'll give you two is, you know, Brett 288 00:20:18.300 --> 00:20:25.040 trainer dot com. My website connects to everything. It's just B R E T T T A I N 289 00:20:25.040 --> 00:20:29.050 O R so triple T trainer and then on linkedin, I'm more than happy to 290 00:20:29.050 --> 00:20:32.910 connect with folks. And you know, I said, we got a lot of good free content 291 00:20:32.910 --> 00:20:36.840 and I'm happy to have a conversation with anybody that, that just wants to 292 00:20:36.840 --> 00:20:40.530 talk about demand gen and growth, especially in the early stage B to B 293 00:20:40.530 --> 00:20:44.140 companies. Absolutely. And I'm an advocate for that as well bred is very 294 00:20:44.140 --> 00:20:47.440 knowledgeable. So if you're listening to this and you're wondering where to 295 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:52.170 go next, definitely check out breaths podcast to be founder. It is incredible. 296 00:20:52.180 --> 00:20:56.220 So Brett thanks so much again for joining me on GDP growth. Thank you 297 00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:57.270 Leslie. It's always fun. 298 00:20:58.340 --> 00:21:02.750 Okay. Is your buyer at BBB marketer? If so you should think about sponsoring 299 00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:07.050 this podcast. BdB growth gets downloaded over 130,000 times each 300 00:21:07.050 --> 00:21:10.590 month and our listeners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds 301 00:21:10.590 --> 00:21:14.450 interesting, send Logan and email Logan at sweet fish Media dot com.