Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah 2 00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:08.740 what is up everybody welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with 3 00:00:08.740 --> 00:00:13.110 sweet fish media and we are continuing our deep dive into the topic of demand 4 00:00:13.110 --> 00:00:17.950 generation. I'm joined today by jay Baron Ceo at elevate demand J thanks so 5 00:00:17.950 --> 00:00:21.160 much for joining us today. Awesome. I'm glad to be here. This is going to be 6 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:26.710 fun. Yeah me too. I'm stoked so I have to start out by asking the question you 7 00:00:26.710 --> 00:00:30.610 know because everyone has a different answer and the approach. I think it's 8 00:00:30.610 --> 00:00:34.200 important for anyone listening to get kind of the full effect here. So how 9 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:39.450 did you, in your own words define demand generation? Yeah this is an 10 00:00:39.460 --> 00:00:43.010 interesting topic and I think it's hotly debated. It seems like on 11 00:00:43.010 --> 00:00:49.420 linkedin. What I see as demand generation is it focuses on the top of 12 00:00:49.420 --> 00:00:53.130 the funnel awareness and acquisition essentially. So you're building 13 00:00:53.130 --> 00:00:57.660 awareness with your target I. C. P. And then marketing's job is to acquire 14 00:00:57.660 --> 00:01:02.600 customers. That's like traditional demand generation. To me what I have 15 00:01:02.610 --> 00:01:07.410 really started to really focus on his growth marketing honestly and growth 16 00:01:07.410 --> 00:01:11.490 marketing and this is kind of where people, I think the debate starts is I 17 00:01:11.490 --> 00:01:16.390 actually start moving down the funnel right? So it's awareness acquisition 18 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:20.730 but then you start getting into referral revenue retention and things 19 00:01:20.730 --> 00:01:25.140 like that. And to me that's kind of the difference between like uh demand 20 00:01:25.140 --> 00:01:29.650 generation and growth marketing is your focus on the top of the funnel with 21 00:01:29.650 --> 00:01:34.210 demand gen and trying to create demand and growth marketing focuses on the 22 00:01:34.210 --> 00:01:38.980 entire funnel all the way through. Yeah let's break that down a little bit and 23 00:01:38.980 --> 00:01:42.640 talk you know demand in versus growth marketing. Can you kind of break down 24 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:48.720 some key differences there? Yeah So the best way to think about it is with 25 00:01:48.720 --> 00:01:53.030 growth marketing, how I approach it is we're looking for growth throughout the 26 00:01:53.030 --> 00:01:57.790 entire funnel. Right? So another way is, as I think about, as I work with the 27 00:01:57.790 --> 00:02:02.680 customers that we are now, elevate, what's really happening is Most B to B 28 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:06.640 companies now, we're honestly willing to spend 100 of their LTV to acquire 29 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:12.310 new customers. So the battle no longer to me is at awareness and acquisition, 30 00:02:12.320 --> 00:02:17.150 your battle starts to come down into having a better retention with your 31 00:02:17.150 --> 00:02:20.980 customers. How you can actually Upsell and cross sell your customers like 32 00:02:20.990 --> 00:02:26.290 that's the next battleground for me, it's not The awareness aspect and 33 00:02:26.290 --> 00:02:30.420 acquiring the customer is actually down the funnel is where companies are 34 00:02:30.430 --> 00:02:34.940 really placing their bets and really looking to win right now, because if 35 00:02:34.940 --> 00:02:38.830 you're willing to find 100 of LTV to acquire a customer, you have to make 36 00:02:38.830 --> 00:02:43.510 the money somewhere. Yeah, for sure. Um let's talk a little bit about brand 37 00:02:43.510 --> 00:02:46.700 awareness as a whole. Um you know, lately in the B two B space, there's 38 00:02:46.700 --> 00:02:51.130 been this topic really around demand gen that says, you know, oh you have 39 00:02:51.130 --> 00:02:54.340 good brand marketing, okay, here's your revenue and that's just not how it 40 00:02:54.340 --> 00:02:57.540 works obviously. Um and you wrote a blog post that was really insightful to 41 00:02:57.540 --> 00:03:02.260 me and my team here at Sweet Fish about how to create an effective B two B 42 00:03:02.260 --> 00:03:06.900 awareness strategy that builds urgency and demand. So can you break down that 43 00:03:06.900 --> 00:03:10.750 formula that you talk about in that blog post? Yeah, it's interesting too. 44 00:03:10.750 --> 00:03:15.760 And it's good to maybe talk about my journey a little bit because what I've 45 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:20.480 gone through and what I look at and linked in, I've gone through that 46 00:03:20.480 --> 00:03:24.690 journey, right? So I have done, you know what I would call tactical 47 00:03:24.690 --> 00:03:27.270 marketing, I think that's where everybody starts. And I finally 48 00:03:27.270 --> 00:03:30.550 realized that where everybody gets stuck and when that's not working, 49 00:03:31.140 --> 00:03:34.860 right? So everybody thinks they have an ad problem, they have a content problem, 50 00:03:34.870 --> 00:03:38.710 then they start looking for better ads and better content. And then when that 51 00:03:38.710 --> 00:03:41.220 doesn't work, what's happening, there's a lot of companies and start 52 00:03:41.220 --> 00:03:45.480 transitioning their tactics. So they go from lead based right to account based 53 00:03:45.480 --> 00:03:50.140 and everybody tries to count based, you get maybe a small uptick in and results 54 00:03:50.140 --> 00:03:54.980 and then that from there I've actually done gone to brand. So I have done 55 00:03:54.990 --> 00:03:59.310 brand marketing and building brand awareness. And what I found typically 56 00:03:59.310 --> 00:04:03.090 this is where a lot of companies get stuck is if your lead based approach 57 00:04:03.090 --> 00:04:06.450 isn't working and your account based approach is not working and your entire 58 00:04:06.450 --> 00:04:10.670 marketing team is stuck in what I call the false struggle, right? You're 59 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.570 updating And you assume you have an ad problem in a content problem switch 60 00:04:14.570 --> 00:04:18.980 into running building brand awareness and brand marketing isn't going to 61 00:04:18.980 --> 00:04:23.910 solve your problem. What I've found is you can create all the content in the 62 00:04:23.910 --> 00:04:26.880 world, you can build all the brand awareness in the world. I've done this, 63 00:04:26.890 --> 00:04:30.980 I have created valuable content, I have run paid ads around it, I have done s 64 00:04:30.980 --> 00:04:34.670 ceo around it, I generated all this additional awareness. And what I 65 00:04:34.670 --> 00:04:38.560 realized is awareness doesn't actually create demand that everybody talks 66 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:43.730 about, right, build awareness to create demand, capture The other 1%. What 67 00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:49.430 happens really is buyers become you where where you exist and that's about 68 00:04:49.430 --> 00:04:52.590 it. You know, you're still waiting for that need to develop, so you're not 69 00:04:52.590 --> 00:04:57.530 really creating new demand with brand awareness, your capture an existing 70 00:04:57.530 --> 00:05:01.890 demand a little bit better. And what I finally realizes, I wrote that blog 71 00:05:01.890 --> 00:05:07.360 post and I've been working with BB SAAS Companies is your brand awareness. And 72 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:11.730 when you do brand and brand marketing should actually be creating demand 73 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:16.270 number one. But number two, before you start developing and creating brand 74 00:05:16.270 --> 00:05:20.270 awareness and brand marketing, there's typically a lot bigger issues that you 75 00:05:20.270 --> 00:05:24.180 need to solve. So like I said, if you're lead based isn't working, your 76 00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:28.980 question should be, we're getting leads there right fit leads. Why are they not 77 00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:33.590 turning to revenue? The answer isn't. So we need to go build brand and that's 78 00:05:33.590 --> 00:05:37.550 kind of like the essence of what I'm trying to get at with. This is brand 79 00:05:37.550 --> 00:05:41.100 marketing, the way it's being prescribed, create valuable content, 80 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:45.300 push that content to your target. I see if he doesn't actually create demand. I 81 00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:49.670 read 100 Lincoln post today, I don't know how many blog posts and I have 82 00:05:49.670 --> 00:05:53.070 zero interest in buying for most of those companies. Yeah, that's really 83 00:05:53.070 --> 00:05:56.130 interesting because it's so true and you know, a lot of people that I've 84 00:05:56.130 --> 00:05:59.220 talked to have said, you know, yeah, like make yourself known, make yourself 85 00:05:59.220 --> 00:06:02.370 the key person in this industry. Like you know, sweet fish make yourself the 86 00:06:02.370 --> 00:06:06.120 key person podcasting. But that doesn't always work because that doesn't drive 87 00:06:06.130 --> 00:06:09.790 demand right away. It just makes you it puts you out there. Makes you known. 88 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:14.150 Yeah. And I think, you know, my biggest fear for a lot of companies that are 89 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:18.130 getting into the brand creates demand. We're going to go do brand marketing to 90 00:06:18.130 --> 00:06:23.110 build awareness is number one. Most GMOs don't have enough time, right. If 91 00:06:23.110 --> 00:06:27.200 you're going to go that approach, it takes 12, 18 24 months to even probably 92 00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:31.430 start seeing any real demand. The other thing too, the way it's being 93 00:06:31.430 --> 00:06:35.400 prescribed, right, create case studies, push content out, you typically either 94 00:06:35.400 --> 00:06:39.570 a really small company so you see it or you're really large company who can put 95 00:06:39.570 --> 00:06:44.320 a lot of money behind it and you see it that way. But for the average B two B 96 00:06:44.320 --> 00:06:49.230 company right there, you know, they're growing, it's not 10 X. Doing brand 97 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:52.970 awareness isn't going to be there next growth lever and that's kind of like 98 00:06:52.970 --> 00:06:57.300 the big mess. I think a lot of who I'm talking to is the average marketing 99 00:06:57.300 --> 00:07:01.120 team, the average marketer. They're doing great work, but they're not like 100 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.630 high growth, right? Doing brand marketing. A brand awareness is putting 101 00:07:04.630 --> 00:07:09.180 fuel on the fire for an existing growth lever. If you haven't found that growth 102 00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:13.160 lever, if you haven't fixed friction in your buyer's journey, If you haven't 103 00:07:13.170 --> 00:07:17.880 actually created a brand deserving of growth, building awareness isn't gonna 104 00:07:17.880 --> 00:07:23.000 do anything for you. As a marketer, you're probably brainstorming outside 105 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:27.250 the box ideas to engage your prospects and customers working remotely, and 106 00:07:27.250 --> 00:07:30.190 you've probably thought about sending them direct mail to break through the 107 00:07:30.190 --> 00:07:34.410 zoom fatigue. But how do you ship personalized gifts to remote decision 108 00:07:34.410 --> 00:07:38.410 makers when you have no idea where they're sitting at B two B growth, we 109 00:07:38.410 --> 00:07:42.140 use the craft and platform to send hyper personalized gifts to anyone 110 00:07:42.140 --> 00:07:45.650 working from anywhere. Crafting makes it easy for your prospects and 111 00:07:45.650 --> 00:07:50.170 customers to pick and personalize their own gift in real time and offers highly 112 00:07:50.170 --> 00:07:54.100 secure data capture. So decision makers feel comfortable submitting their home 113 00:07:54.100 --> 00:07:58.420 addresses for shipping purposes. To get your own personalized craft and gift. 114 00:07:58.430 --> 00:08:02.970 Go to craft um dot io slash growth to schedule a demo and receive a 115 00:08:02.970 --> 00:08:06.730 complimentary personalized gift from craft. Um to claim your personalized 116 00:08:06.730 --> 00:08:14.030 gift go to craft um dot io slash growth. Can you share an example of a good 117 00:08:14.030 --> 00:08:18.960 brand narrative that has actually worked? Yeah. So there's a few examples 118 00:08:18.960 --> 00:08:22.270 that I always come top of mind of companies that have built like great 119 00:08:22.270 --> 00:08:27.110 grand narratives, the one I like a lot is actually open view partners, their 120 00:08:27.110 --> 00:08:30.440 brand narratives around product like growth. So like they're the creator of 121 00:08:30.440 --> 00:08:34.549 that, right? They actually have, if you follow me on linkedin and talk about 122 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:37.799 the start here page and things like that. They have something like that as 123 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.990 a concept in their main navigation called product. Like growth. I believe 124 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:45.420 you should call the start here page, but that's splitting hairs. So they 125 00:08:45.420 --> 00:08:51.250 have a narrative on this shift that's happening, right? And the the narrative 126 00:08:51.250 --> 00:08:55.050 they need you to believe is that you need to switch to product led growth, 127 00:08:55.540 --> 00:08:59.270 right? And then once you believe that you're already starting to create 128 00:08:59.280 --> 00:09:04.580 urgency and demand other great companies that do this right drift Has 129 00:09:04.580 --> 00:09:08.250 done a great job of this was their revenue acceleration platform, right, 130 00:09:08.250 --> 00:09:13.150 convincing B2B marketers, the way that they're operating now is going to be 131 00:09:13.150 --> 00:09:17.390 obsolete. I am actually amazed at what drift is done. So you wanna talk about 132 00:09:17.400 --> 00:09:21.780 how to build brand awareness that creates demand. To me drift is their 133 00:09:21.780 --> 00:09:25.840 chatbots, like like we don't want to really admit that, but that's honestly 134 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:30.060 all they are is a chat pot and they built a brand narrative that's so 135 00:09:30.060 --> 00:09:33.800 strong that they've created all this demand with it gong, does it as well, 136 00:09:33.800 --> 00:09:39.280 revenue intel, right? You can talk about refined labs and chris, like what 137 00:09:39.280 --> 00:09:43.310 he preaches and everybody says brand creates demand. They want to replicate. 138 00:09:43.310 --> 00:09:47.600 Like chris's model. Chris has created a brand narrative that lead base no 139 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:54.030 longer works demand jin is the new way to win, right? Like he's actually built 140 00:09:54.030 --> 00:09:58.390 a branded narrative, he didn't build awareness and and do brand marketing. 141 00:09:58.390 --> 00:10:03.390 He built a narrative and built a brand deserving of growth. Yeah. Yeah, that's 142 00:10:03.390 --> 00:10:07.740 great. That's great examples. Can you talk a little bit about the difference 143 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:14.180 between, you know, product versus buyer led growth? Yeah, there's a lot of a 144 00:10:14.180 --> 00:10:18.980 lot of similarities. So buyer led growth is honestly something that I've 145 00:10:18.980 --> 00:10:24.100 come up with and really there's this fundamental shift that has happened in 146 00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:29.580 marketing and like this is to me like the shift that marketers honestly have 147 00:10:29.580 --> 00:10:35.690 to be making, which is the seller no longer has any of the power the buyer 148 00:10:35.690 --> 00:10:40.000 now has all the power in the engagement and you need to shift how you go to 149 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:45.440 market To the way B2B buyers want to buy. And that's what buyer like growth 150 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:49.680 is honestly all about. So it's, well, there's a few things if we talk about 151 00:10:49.680 --> 00:10:53.330 the shifts, right? So the shifts I finally realized, which is number one, 152 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:56.930 the job of marketing has changed. So we talked about your first question was 153 00:10:56.930 --> 00:11:02.470 demand jin right? It was building awareness in acquiring customers, right, 154 00:11:02.470 --> 00:11:08.500 well you get a demo form, they would then go into sales, sales would create 155 00:11:08.510 --> 00:11:13.210 urgency and demand sales, woodcraft the offer, sales would give them price and 156 00:11:13.210 --> 00:11:18.450 get them to close, right? The shift now is the buyer has all the power and 157 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:22.090 they're not reaching out to sales to have that happen. So you actually need 158 00:11:22.090 --> 00:11:25.680 to be doing that with your marketing now. And that's when we talk about 159 00:11:25.680 --> 00:11:29.710 brand narrative being a part of buyer like growth. That's the key when we 160 00:11:29.710 --> 00:11:34.150 think about building brand marketing, your job now in marketing is to shift 161 00:11:34.150 --> 00:11:39.030 the beliefs of your buyers to actually create the urgency of demand. You need 162 00:11:39.030 --> 00:11:43.490 to change their narrative into the narrative, you need your buyers to 163 00:11:43.490 --> 00:11:47.800 believe. And that's how we start with brand is figuring out what that brand 164 00:11:47.800 --> 00:11:52.600 narrative is and that's the crux of violent growth. Then you go right down 165 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:56.340 the funnel, you start working with sales. Okay, How do B two b buyers want 166 00:11:56.340 --> 00:12:01.130 to biceps products and working with sales? And then again we follow that 167 00:12:01.130 --> 00:12:06.790 same concept through retention uh and everything. And that's like when you 168 00:12:06.790 --> 00:12:11.950 hear me talk about brand narrative fire, like growth, like that's the shift that 169 00:12:11.950 --> 00:12:15.520 I keep talking about. And then there's also other two big shifts and I keep 170 00:12:15.520 --> 00:12:19.270 saying the seller and the company no longer has the power. It's the buyer. 171 00:12:19.300 --> 00:12:23.520 The other two is, there's so many alternatives. Now. There's hundreds of 172 00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:28.380 alternatives to sweet fish. There's thousands to me like it's not even 173 00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:32.850 direct competitors. The alternatives to your solution. Again, that gives the 174 00:12:32.850 --> 00:12:38.060 buyer more control and I actually completely forgot my point of friction. 175 00:12:38.070 --> 00:12:43.100 The other big killer that we're finding again to be by your focus is removing 176 00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:47.190 friction from the buyer's journey. Lot of marketers look at as well. We're 177 00:12:47.190 --> 00:12:52.290 going to reduce fields on our form and things like that. The reality is 178 00:12:52.290 --> 00:12:57.170 friction is a lot deeper than that. Friction is confusing value proposition. 179 00:12:57.180 --> 00:13:01.510 If I have to reach out to sales to understand the value of your product, 180 00:13:01.510 --> 00:13:06.600 right? That's a friction problem, not putting pricing on your website, 181 00:13:06.610 --> 00:13:10.250 creates friction, doing a view demo button, somebody clicks it and it's 182 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:13.590 actually get a demo button, right? That's friction lead handoff 183 00:13:13.590 --> 00:13:17.560 optimization. Again, looking for friction through the entire funnel 184 00:13:17.560 --> 00:13:22.710 retention. Things like that is how we, that's what violet growth is all about. 185 00:13:22.710 --> 00:13:27.360 Is those three buckets brand narrative to create demand, shifting your buyers 186 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:33.550 beliefs and irony. I fell there. It's all stop. No, no, that's great. I think 187 00:13:33.550 --> 00:13:36.000 the topic of friction is really important because it's something that 188 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:39.430 people don't often think about and it's just honestly making it simple, like 189 00:13:39.430 --> 00:13:43.620 making it easier. It's like, I'm personally like I am a really easy sell 190 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:47.230 right? Like you can sell me anything, but if I can't get to it easily, if I 191 00:13:47.230 --> 00:13:51.380 can't find it, if I can't see the price I'm not sold because it, that makes it 192 00:13:51.380 --> 00:13:56.080 difficult for me. So that is a huge, huge pain point and a lot of companies 193 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:00.700 do that wrong. So yeah, and I think as we keep thinking about, you know, 194 00:14:00.700 --> 00:14:05.120 demand jin and does brand create demand, right? And I talked about this fall 195 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:09.300 struggle, that's really what I'm getting at is companies now are 196 00:14:09.300 --> 00:14:11.940 building brand awareness and brand marketing, they have a high friction 197 00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:16.700 brand, right? They're not solving the right problem that the company is 198 00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:19.950 facing, they're not building the brand narrative, they're not removing 199 00:14:19.950 --> 00:14:23.260 friction from their buyers journey, so they're going out and they're building 200 00:14:23.260 --> 00:14:26.910 brand, they have a confusing value proposition that's not creating any 201 00:14:26.910 --> 00:14:31.260 urgency and demand and then that buyers met with high friction. Again, it's 202 00:14:31.260 --> 00:14:35.790 kind of like what I said before, if you're generating leads at a good clip 203 00:14:35.800 --> 00:14:39.920 and those aren't turning to revenue, your issue is not go build brand, how 204 00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:43.860 do you get those leads to turn to revenue, start looking for friction 205 00:14:43.870 --> 00:14:47.620 throughout your buyer's journey and that's really the missing pieces, 206 00:14:47.630 --> 00:14:51.050 friction is the number one growth killer. It's not like I said, building 207 00:14:51.050 --> 00:14:55.140 awareness. Absolutely, totally agree sweet. Well J this has been so 208 00:14:55.140 --> 00:14:58.180 insightful for me and I know our listeners will take it as well and run 209 00:14:58.180 --> 00:15:02.190 with it. So thank you. If anyone is interested in hearing more from you or 210 00:15:02.190 --> 00:15:05.400 learning more about elevate, where can they find you online? I'm all over 211 00:15:05.400 --> 00:15:09.210 linkedin, connecting on linkedin. Otherwise elevate the man dot com. 212 00:15:09.220 --> 00:15:12.060 Awesome. Thanks again for joining me on GDP growth. Thanks. 213 00:15:13.540 --> 00:15:13.860 Mhm 214 00:15:15.540 --> 00:15:19.150 One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of 215 00:15:19.150 --> 00:15:23.840 mouth works. It works really, really well actually. So if you love this show, 216 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.750 it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. And if 217 00:15:27.750 --> 00:15:32.080 you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend meta, 218 00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:35.720 I know I'll send you a copy of my book, Content based networking how to 219 00:15:35.730 --> 00:15:39.160 instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell phone number is 220 00:15:39.160 --> 00:15:44.450 4074933-8. Happy texting.
