Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah
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what is up everybody welcome back to be
to be growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with
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sweet fish media and we are continuing
our deep dive into the topic of demand
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generation. I'm joined today by jay
Baron Ceo at elevate demand J thanks so
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much for joining us today. Awesome. I'm
glad to be here. This is going to be
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fun. Yeah me too. I'm stoked so I have
to start out by asking the question you
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know because everyone has a different
answer and the approach. I think it's
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important for anyone listening to get
kind of the full effect here. So how
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did you, in your own words define
demand generation? Yeah this is an
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interesting topic and I think it's
hotly debated. It seems like on
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linkedin. What I see as demand
generation is it focuses on the top of
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the funnel awareness and acquisition
essentially. So you're building
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awareness with your target I. C. P. And
then marketing's job is to acquire
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customers. That's like traditional
demand generation. To me what I have
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really started to really focus on his
growth marketing honestly and growth
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marketing and this is kind of where
people, I think the debate starts is I
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actually start moving down the funnel
right? So it's awareness acquisition
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but then you start getting into
referral revenue retention and things
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like that. And to me that's kind of the
difference between like uh demand
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generation and growth marketing is your
focus on the top of the funnel with
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demand gen and trying to create demand
and growth marketing focuses on the
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entire funnel all the way through. Yeah
let's break that down a little bit and
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talk you know demand in versus growth
marketing. Can you kind of break down
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some key differences there? Yeah So the
best way to think about it is with
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growth marketing, how I approach it is
we're looking for growth throughout the
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entire funnel. Right? So another way is,
as I think about, as I work with the
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customers that we are now, elevate,
what's really happening is Most B to B
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companies now, we're honestly willing
to spend 100 of their LTV to acquire
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new customers. So the battle no longer
to me is at awareness and acquisition,
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your battle starts to come down into
having a better retention with your
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customers. How you can actually Upsell
and cross sell your customers like
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that's the next battleground for me,
it's not The awareness aspect and
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acquiring the customer is actually down
the funnel is where companies are
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really placing their bets and really
looking to win right now, because if
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you're willing to find 100 of LTV to
acquire a customer, you have to make
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the money somewhere. Yeah, for sure. Um
let's talk a little bit about brand
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awareness as a whole. Um you know,
lately in the B two B space, there's
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been this topic really around demand
gen that says, you know, oh you have
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good brand marketing, okay, here's your
revenue and that's just not how it
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works obviously. Um and you wrote a
blog post that was really insightful to
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me and my team here at Sweet Fish about
how to create an effective B two B
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awareness strategy that builds urgency
and demand. So can you break down that
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formula that you talk about in that
blog post? Yeah, it's interesting too.
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And it's good to maybe talk about my
journey a little bit because what I've
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gone through and what I look at and
linked in, I've gone through that
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journey, right? So I have done, you
know what I would call tactical
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marketing, I think that's where
everybody starts. And I finally
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realized that where everybody gets
stuck and when that's not working,
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right? So everybody thinks they have an
ad problem, they have a content problem,
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then they start looking for better ads
and better content. And then when that
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doesn't work, what's happening, there's
a lot of companies and start
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transitioning their tactics. So they go
from lead based right to account based
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and everybody tries to count based, you
get maybe a small uptick in and results
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and then that from there I've actually
done gone to brand. So I have done
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brand marketing and building brand
awareness. And what I found typically
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this is where a lot of companies get
stuck is if your lead based approach
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isn't working and your account based
approach is not working and your entire
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marketing team is stuck in what I call
the false struggle, right? You're
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updating And you assume you have an ad
problem in a content problem switch
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into running building brand awareness
and brand marketing isn't going to
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solve your problem. What I've found is
you can create all the content in the
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world, you can build all the brand
awareness in the world. I've done this,
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I have created valuable content, I have
run paid ads around it, I have done s
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ceo around it, I generated all this
additional awareness. And what I
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realized is awareness doesn't actually
create demand that everybody talks
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about, right, build awareness to create
demand, capture The other 1%. What
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happens really is buyers become you
where where you exist and that's about
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it. You know, you're still waiting for
that need to develop, so you're not
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really creating new demand with brand
awareness, your capture an existing
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demand a little bit better. And what I
finally realizes, I wrote that blog
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post and I've been working with BB SAAS
Companies is your brand awareness. And
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when you do brand and brand marketing
should actually be creating demand
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number one. But number two, before you
start developing and creating brand
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awareness and brand marketing, there's
typically a lot bigger issues that you
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need to solve. So like I said, if
you're lead based isn't working, your
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question should be, we're getting leads
there right fit leads. Why are they not
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turning to revenue? The answer isn't.
So we need to go build brand and that's
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kind of like the essence of what I'm
trying to get at with. This is brand
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marketing, the way it's being
prescribed, create valuable content,
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push that content to your target. I see
if he doesn't actually create demand. I
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read 100 Lincoln post today, I don't
know how many blog posts and I have
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zero interest in buying for most of
those companies. Yeah, that's really
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interesting because it's so true and
you know, a lot of people that I've
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talked to have said, you know, yeah,
like make yourself known, make yourself
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the key person in this industry. Like
you know, sweet fish make yourself the
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key person podcasting. But that doesn't
always work because that doesn't drive
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demand right away. It just makes you it
puts you out there. Makes you known.
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Yeah. And I think, you know, my biggest
fear for a lot of companies that are
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getting into the brand creates demand.
We're going to go do brand marketing to
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build awareness is number one. Most
GMOs don't have enough time, right. If
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you're going to go that approach, it
takes 12, 18 24 months to even probably
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start seeing any real demand. The other
thing too, the way it's being
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prescribed, right, create case studies,
push content out, you typically either
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a really small company so you see it or
you're really large company who can put
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a lot of money behind it and you see it
that way. But for the average B two B
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company right there, you know, they're
growing, it's not 10 X. Doing brand
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awareness isn't going to be there next
growth lever and that's kind of like
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the big mess. I think a lot of who I'm
talking to is the average marketing
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team, the average marketer. They're
doing great work, but they're not like
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high growth, right? Doing brand
marketing. A brand awareness is putting
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fuel on the fire for an existing growth
lever. If you haven't found that growth
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lever, if you haven't fixed friction in
your buyer's journey, If you haven't
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actually created a brand deserving of
growth, building awareness isn't gonna
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do anything for you. As a marketer,
you're probably brainstorming outside
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the box ideas to engage your prospects
and customers working remotely, and
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you've probably thought about sending
them direct mail to break through the
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zoom fatigue. But how do you ship
personalized gifts to remote decision
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makers when you have no idea where
they're sitting at B two B growth, we
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use the craft and platform to send
hyper personalized gifts to anyone
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working from anywhere. Crafting makes
it easy for your prospects and
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customers to pick and personalize their
own gift in real time and offers highly
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secure data capture. So decision makers
feel comfortable submitting their home
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addresses for shipping purposes. To get
your own personalized craft and gift.
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Go to craft um dot io slash growth to
schedule a demo and receive a
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complimentary personalized gift from
craft. Um to claim your personalized
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gift go to craft um dot io slash growth.
Can you share an example of a good
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brand narrative that has actually
worked? Yeah. So there's a few examples
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that I always come top of mind of
companies that have built like great
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grand narratives, the one I like a lot
is actually open view partners, their
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brand narratives around product like
growth. So like they're the creator of
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that, right? They actually have, if you
follow me on linkedin and talk about
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the start here page and things like
that. They have something like that as
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a concept in their main navigation
called product. Like growth. I believe
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you should call the start here page,
but that's splitting hairs. So they
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have a narrative on this shift that's
happening, right? And the the narrative
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they need you to believe is that you
need to switch to product led growth,
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right? And then once you believe that
you're already starting to create
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urgency and demand other great
companies that do this right drift Has
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done a great job of this was their
revenue acceleration platform, right,
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convincing B2B marketers, the way that
they're operating now is going to be
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obsolete. I am actually amazed at what
drift is done. So you wanna talk about
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how to build brand awareness that
creates demand. To me drift is their
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chatbots, like like we don't want to
really admit that, but that's honestly
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all they are is a chat pot and they
built a brand narrative that's so
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strong that they've created all this
demand with it gong, does it as well,
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revenue intel, right? You can talk
about refined labs and chris, like what
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he preaches and everybody says brand
creates demand. They want to replicate.
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Like chris's model. Chris has created a
brand narrative that lead base no
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longer works demand jin is the new way
to win, right? Like he's actually built
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a branded narrative, he didn't build
awareness and and do brand marketing.
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He built a narrative and built a brand
deserving of growth. Yeah. Yeah, that's
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great. That's great examples. Can you
talk a little bit about the difference
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between, you know, product versus buyer
led growth? Yeah, there's a lot of a
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lot of similarities. So buyer led
growth is honestly something that I've
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come up with and really there's this
fundamental shift that has happened in
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marketing and like this is to me like
the shift that marketers honestly have
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to be making, which is the seller no
longer has any of the power the buyer
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now has all the power in the engagement
and you need to shift how you go to
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market To the way B2B buyers want to
buy. And that's what buyer like growth
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is honestly all about. So it's, well,
there's a few things if we talk about
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the shifts, right? So the shifts I
finally realized, which is number one,
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the job of marketing has changed. So we
talked about your first question was
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demand jin right? It was building
awareness in acquiring customers, right,
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well you get a demo form, they would
then go into sales, sales would create
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urgency and demand sales, woodcraft the
offer, sales would give them price and
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get them to close, right? The shift now
is the buyer has all the power and
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they're not reaching out to sales to
have that happen. So you actually need
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to be doing that with your marketing
now. And that's when we talk about
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brand narrative being a part of buyer
like growth. That's the key when we
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think about building brand marketing,
your job now in marketing is to shift
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the beliefs of your buyers to actually
create the urgency of demand. You need
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to change their narrative into the
narrative, you need your buyers to
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believe. And that's how we start with
brand is figuring out what that brand
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narrative is and that's the crux of
violent growth. Then you go right down
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the funnel, you start working with
sales. Okay, How do B two b buyers want
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to biceps products and working with
sales? And then again we follow that
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same concept through retention uh and
everything. And that's like when you
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hear me talk about brand narrative fire,
like growth, like that's the shift that
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I keep talking about. And then there's
also other two big shifts and I keep
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saying the seller and the company no
longer has the power. It's the buyer.
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The other two is, there's so many
alternatives. Now. There's hundreds of
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alternatives to sweet fish. There's
thousands to me like it's not even
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direct competitors. The alternatives to
your solution. Again, that gives the
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buyer more control and I actually
completely forgot my point of friction.
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The other big killer that we're finding
again to be by your focus is removing
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friction from the buyer's journey. Lot
of marketers look at as well. We're
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going to reduce fields on our form and
things like that. The reality is
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friction is a lot deeper than that.
Friction is confusing value proposition.
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If I have to reach out to sales to
understand the value of your product,
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right? That's a friction problem, not
putting pricing on your website,
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creates friction, doing a view demo
button, somebody clicks it and it's
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actually get a demo button, right?
That's friction lead handoff
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optimization. Again, looking for
friction through the entire funnel
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retention. Things like that is how we,
that's what violet growth is all about.
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Is those three buckets brand narrative
to create demand, shifting your buyers
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beliefs and irony. I fell there. It's
all stop. No, no, that's great. I think
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the topic of friction is really
important because it's something that
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people don't often think about and it's
just honestly making it simple, like
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making it easier. It's like, I'm
personally like I am a really easy sell
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right? Like you can sell me anything,
but if I can't get to it easily, if I
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can't find it, if I can't see the price
I'm not sold because it, that makes it
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difficult for me. So that is a huge,
huge pain point and a lot of companies
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do that wrong. So yeah, and I think as
we keep thinking about, you know,
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demand jin and does brand create demand,
right? And I talked about this fall
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struggle, that's really what I'm
getting at is companies now are
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building brand awareness and brand
marketing, they have a high friction
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brand, right? They're not solving the
right problem that the company is
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facing, they're not building the brand
narrative, they're not removing
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friction from their buyers journey, so
they're going out and they're building
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brand, they have a confusing value
proposition that's not creating any
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urgency and demand and then that buyers
met with high friction. Again, it's
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kind of like what I said before, if
you're generating leads at a good clip
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and those aren't turning to revenue,
your issue is not go build brand, how
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do you get those leads to turn to
revenue, start looking for friction
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throughout your buyer's journey and
that's really the missing pieces,
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friction is the number one growth
killer. It's not like I said, building
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awareness. Absolutely, totally agree
sweet. Well J this has been so
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insightful for me and I know our
listeners will take it as well and run
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with it. So thank you. If anyone is
interested in hearing more from you or
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learning more about elevate, where can
they find you online? I'm all over
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linkedin, connecting on linkedin.
Otherwise elevate the man dot com.
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Awesome. Thanks again for joining me on
GDP growth. Thanks.
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Mhm
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One of the things we've learned about
podcast audience growth is that word of
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00:15:19.150 --> 00:15:23.840
mouth works. It works really, really
well actually. So if you love this show,
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00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.750
it would be awesome if you texted a
friend to tell them about it. And if
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00:15:27.750 --> 00:15:32.080
you send me a text with a screenshot of
the text you sent to your friend meta,
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00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:35.720
I know I'll send you a copy of my book,
Content based networking how to
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00:15:35.730 --> 00:15:39.160
instantly connect with anyone you want
to know. My cell phone number is
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4074933-8. Happy texting.