How To Scale a Media Company Within B2B | The Journey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth. 2 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:21.600 Welcome to the journey here on B two B Growth, where we're documenting our 3 00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:25.559 journey of turning B two B growth. This show into every B two B 4 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:30.800 marketers favorite media brand and how you can do the same for your market I'm 5 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:36.479 joined today by Dan Sanchez, our executive producer, and my name is James 6 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:40.719 Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet Fish, and today we're gonna be talking 7 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:45.920 about a post that I actually put up on LinkedIn on Saturday. So one 8 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.799 of the posts I think had over a hundred and thirty or a hundred and 9 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:52.479 forty different engagements, lots of comments, and so I'm just gonna kick it 10 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:55.880 off by reading what the post was that I posted on Saturday, and then 11 00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:00.240 Dan, have you kind of chime in with your thoughts Looking through of the 12 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.880 comments, We've got some really affirming comments in this thing. So here's how 13 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.480 it starts, and said, the next evolution of marketing is media, which 14 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:11.239 means the next evolution of the VP of marketing role is the role of the 15 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:15.799 executive producer. Modern marketing teams needs someone that can architect the media brand that 16 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:21.760 becomes your markets favorite source of information on the Internet, developed compelling concepts and 17 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:26.640 formats for the content franchises within that media brand, so newsletters, podcast, 18 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.640 YouTube channels, etcetera. We've in the company's points of view into the stories 19 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:37.680 being told inside the various content franchises, connect the media being created to the 20 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:42.400 business objectives that need to be achieved. The executive producer is ultimately responsible for 21 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:47.280 creating an irrational bias towards your brand, a bias so strong that your competition 22 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:52.599 doesn't matter because the media you produce creates an affinity that can't be beaten. 23 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:57.200 Dan, why do you think this kind of point of view? This post 24 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.640 did as well as it did? Man, that's soon as I saw it, 25 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.040 I was like, yes, this is it essentially is it's a baby 26 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.319 step towards flushing out our hypothesis abound building a media brand. You're like, 27 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:12.479 yes, let's define the roles within a media brand, like who's the new 28 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.439 this? How does it all work? And of course I think the post 29 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:17.719 did well because there were some people who freaking loved it. They're like, 30 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:23.599 Oh, I've been looking for this, Like I've been wrestling with my role 31 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:27.039 on how to define it and clearly articulated. Then there's some others that are 32 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.800 like, is this just the new thing for marketing? Is this the new 33 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.000 black? Like, what are we talking about? We're just throwing around terms. 34 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:37.759 So there's a kind of a lot of people on both sides of the 35 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:42.759 aisle saying yes or no, and those are what posts usually do well. 36 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.039 James, you actually approached this topic a while ago, even just a few 37 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:51.080 weeks ago talking to me about it. What triggered in your mind when you 38 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:58.120 first thought about changing marketing titles over to media titles. Yeah, so as 39 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:02.199 of a few weeks ago, we really made the decision that our marketing that 40 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:07.479 sweet Fish is marketing would become we were putting all of our chips into B 41 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:13.319 two B growth and so having Benji, Emily and you all focused on B 42 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:17.800 two B growth and that was really our marketing spent was are we growing B 43 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:23.159 two B growth? Are we tying the business objectives of the company to the 44 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:29.560 results of BtoB growth? Is BDB growth tangibly doing the work that it needs 45 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.680 to do to actually drive revenue for Sweet Fish? Now we're starting more and 46 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:38.360 more to think about like monetizing B two B growth as a standalone asset. 47 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:44.199 So because knowing that affinity takes time to convert to revenue, but affinity is 48 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:49.000 absolutely the best path toward revenue. It doesn't show up on a spreadsheet quickly, 49 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:53.240 and even when it does convert to revenue, it's sometimes often hard to 50 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:59.000 attribute it to the work you did with the media brand, because the media 51 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:00.680 brand is kind of the tip of spear, and it's how somebody starts to 52 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:05.159 get acclimated to your ecosystem in your world. But then it could be a 53 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:09.879 blog post that they read three weeks after getting introduced to the show that really 54 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.680 put them over the top. Or it could be a conversation that they had 55 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:15.399 with somebody one of our people on LinkedIn, so they attributed it to LinkedIn 56 00:04:15.480 --> 00:04:19.000 instead of it being attributed to they found B TWOB growth first. And so 57 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:26.240 I think the more I've thought about our own marketing being really dumped into B 58 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:30.040 two B growth, the more I thought, and this is how modern marketing 59 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.480 is going to work. I think traditionally you've had a lot of marketers that 60 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:40.240 have focused on funnels and focused on conversion metrics, and I think that is 61 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:44.759 still needed. This post wasn't intended to say that everything that the VP of 62 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:48.319 marketing was doing before isn't necessary. And I think some people kind of took 63 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:53.040 it that way by saying, Okay, is this just the next fad? 64 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:57.240 Is this just us kind of giving marketing another name yet again. I think 65 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.160 there's certainly some tiredness to that, with all the talk around strategic narrative, 66 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:05.399 old game, new game, category creation. I think marketers in particularly are 67 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:09.199 getting a little bit iy rolly about that stuff because it's like, Okay, 68 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:13.560 sure, tell me that marketing is completely changed yet again. But I think 69 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:18.600 that this approach to marketing really focusing on the media is actually what content marketing 70 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:23.519 intended to do. I think when you look at Joe Politici and what he 71 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:29.240 intended to build whenever he built the content marketing category was that you would put 72 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:33.079 so much effort into the content and making the content so good that it would 73 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.800 give you that a rational bias, It would give someone that affinity towards your 74 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:42.800 brand. But I think a lot of marketers kind of bastardized that, and 75 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.399 not always because being their own fault, because they've got senior executives that are 76 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.319 breathing down their their neck about needing m q L s and and needing to 77 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:55.800 justify what we're doing with this quote unquote content marketing thing. We need revenue, 78 00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:00.720 and so content marketing started to resemble more and more product marketing. It's 79 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:02.560 just like, how can we figure out how to talk about our product in 80 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:08.279 a disguised way? And this is really a retreat from that and saying no, 81 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:12.680 let's go back to the original intent of what content marketing should be. 82 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:15.360 And do we name it something different? I don't know, but one of 83 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:19.639 the things that I'm thinking about is like starts by roll definition and if you're 84 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:25.680 going to treat a media property differently than how we've traditionally been treating content marketing, 85 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:29.800 it's way more than just blog posts that rank for keywords. It's funny 86 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:35.199 the original I remember watching um that content marketing documentary. Right, it's a 87 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:39.879 if you haven't seen it, like just google content marketing documentary. It's a 88 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.079 great little video about like the origin of it, and it goes all the 89 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.480 way back to like John Deere rolling out their magazine The Furrow. Right, 90 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:50.680 it's over a hundred years old, and they weren't even talking about John Deer 91 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:55.199 detractors they were, or good equipment. They were just talking about stuff farmers 92 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:59.079 found relatively useful they knew, like John Deere put it out, but it 93 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.600 wasn't a product thing. It was a media brand. It was a magazine 94 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.160 in and of itself. And that's ultimately where we want to bring it back. 95 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.240 And I think you're right in that it's a lot of content marketing has 96 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.360 become product marketing. But even when it's not, even when it's a how 97 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.959 to list that's broader than the product that they sell, it still has this 98 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:21.639 flavor of marketing in it, right. It still has marketing in its goal, 99 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:26.920 and you can feel it by the five pop ups that jump out. 100 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:30.399 You know, it's kind of like and it's on the company blog and it's 101 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:34.240 branded across the top and a big footer, and it's written by somebody who's 102 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:38.920 not actually a subject matter expert and what the customer cares about. It's written 103 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:42.920 by a content person that the company hired to put this out so that they 104 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.560 could get traffic to their website. And the whole thing has a flavor to 105 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:50.720 it that just feels like marketing, right, and it's not even as helpful 106 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:54.839 as it needs to be. So I think by repositioning it a little bit 107 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.240 is actually useful, and that's our take on it. Of course, some 108 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:01.199 people there's always, like you said, I rolls when you trying to change 109 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.639 the way people talk about things. Because marketers are good at that, we 110 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:07.920 do it a lot um, sometimes more successful in others. Some of the 111 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.480 pushback that I've heard in other posts whenever I talk about companies needing to become 112 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:15.600 media companies. One of the guys I'm thinking of right now is I think 113 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.879 a friend of yours Dan, But he's basically pushing back on that because media 114 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:24.160 companies are a really hard business model, like creating content that is so good 115 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:31.120 that other companies trying to reach your target audience are willing to pay you to 116 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.879 get talked about or to get in front of the exact people that your content 117 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.919 reaches because of how good it is. And so the investment that you have 118 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:45.200 to make in making that content and then what you can actually sell in terms 119 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.960 of what people are willing to pay to get in front of that audience, 120 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:52.600 that business model is. It can be very challenging, but I think it's 121 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.000 actually helpful at least since we've started having these conversations with B two B growth 122 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:58.720 and thinking about how we can start doing this for our client shows. I 123 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:03.639 think gets actually helpful to think about how can you monetize the media itself, 124 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.519 because it's a forcing function for you to make sure that that content is good 125 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.759 in and of itself. Curious to get your thoughts. Do you think that 126 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:18.360 that departure of trying to tie your media brand directly to revenue is like do 127 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:20.480 you think I've swung too far the other way and trying to make the media 128 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:26.360 brand pay for itself? No? No, I think that should be everybody's 129 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:30.960 goal. Not everybody will get there, and that's okay because it will still 130 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:35.480 work and generate revenue for your business. But if you can make it big 131 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.039 enough and attractive enough for other people to sponsor and essentially create like a perpetual 132 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.759 marketing machine, I think of like perpetual emotion. I'm a nerd. I 133 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:48.480 love studying how people have made perpetual emotion machines, and even though it's technically 134 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:50.440 like impossible, right, but still, I just love the idea of it 135 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:54.159 in physics, of something that just never stops. I'm like, man, 136 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.759 I want that in marketing. It's also impossible marketing for the long term, 137 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.200 like eventually like you have to put massive effort or things into it to make 138 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:03.799 it go again. But like, if I can get it to the point 139 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:09.919 where a marketing channel that's making revenue for my company pays for itself, I 140 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:13.279 want to call out a few things here, Dan some comments that popped up 141 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:18.519 on this post. One was really really encouraging to me from Tyler Lossard, 142 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:24.039 who, in my opinion, might be executing this whole media brand strategy that 143 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.320 we're advocating for better than anyone and B two B right now through a media 144 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.879 brand called sales Feed. Now, Tyler Lessard is the CMO of Vidyard, 145 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.720 so like a video email platform, and they've created a separate media brand called 146 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.799 sales Feed. They've staffed it with I thinks Will Aikin was actually a sales 147 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:48.000 influencer and so his comment on the post was, Oh my gosh, I've 148 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:52.240 been trying to figure out how to articulate the evolution of my role and this 149 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.879 is it off to update my LinkedIn profile. Another comment my friend Obed Dorani. 150 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.879 He said, easy dream job, Where do I sign up? Oh? 151 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.480 Oh? Bet is the living embodiment of thinking about content this way? 152 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:09.120 Him him, Todd Klausser Emily Brady, you know, from our team, 153 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:11.600 is kind of in that crew. They hang out with Will Aching a lot 154 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.840 too, so they're living and breathing this. There was one comment here from 155 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:20.080 David Uraguay. He said, it sounds about right to me. Head of 156 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.600 brand strategy times head of product marketing equals modern VP of marketing. I struggle 157 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:31.320 with that common a little bit in terms of like brand strategy times head of 158 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.759 product marketing, that's a lot of product marketing in the mix there. I 159 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.159 mean, you're basically just saying it's a combo of brand strategy and product marketing. 160 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:43.440 I think the product marketing has to be lesser. I think that's the 161 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.399 mistake we've made traditionally, is making product marketing too much a part of the 162 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:52.639 media brand, and it ends up breaking trust with the audience because people can 163 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.279 see that, oh, you're just really trying to sling a product, and 164 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.360 I think there's a line there. You don't want to pretend to become copletely 165 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.919 unbiased. We talk on Sweet Fish a lot about how like we're not mother 166 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:09.159 Teresa, We're not just doing this because we've got this altruistic heart to try 167 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.720 to help marketers get better at their job. No, we know that if 168 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:16.240 we help marketers create an unfair advantage in their work, then that affinity towards 169 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.960 sweet Fish is going to result in dollars for our business. And so that's 170 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.519 my one issue with that comment from David is a man. Maybe it's brand 171 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:31.279 strategy, it's strategic editorial meets you know, a light version. Maybe it's 172 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.600 head of product marketing divided by two would be the closer to the equation that 173 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.720 I'm thinking of there. And then another comment from Asher Matthew. He says, 174 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.840 is this another case of what's old is new? Was this true for 175 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.320 vps of marketing before demand gen became such a focus for them? I think 176 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:52.440 the way I responded to Asher's comment was, I actually think that by executing 177 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:58.600 a media brand strategy, well, I think it's still demand gen, but 178 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:03.440 it is. I think you first got to create demand for your media, 179 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:09.919 and then once you've created a raving desire for your media, then it expedites 180 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:13.200 the effectiveness of the demand that you're going to create for your product when you 181 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.279 do strategically figure out how to integrate your product into that media. What are 182 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.639 your thoughts there, Dan, I think you're writing that you're setting up a 183 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:26.480 separate brand. It is a separate brand, Should it tie it nicely to 184 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.399 your other brand? Yes, but it doesn't even need to be like a 185 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:33.080 sub brand necessarily of your brand and like creatively all fit together a nice package. 186 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.279 You can just needs to be a separate brand to create separations so you 187 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.240 can position it differently than your other brand. Right, the positioning on these 188 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.440 two things are probably going to be different once. Probably your media brand is 189 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.960 gonna be broader, right because you should have tooken a niche positioning within whatever 190 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.039 industry you're playing in. Yours is going to be brought. The media brand 191 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:56.600 is gonna be all encompassing for everything your buyers love. So you're actually creating 192 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:00.639 marketing for your media and treating it like its own little mini copenny within your 193 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.240 company. And I think you can do that with just a few employees, 194 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:07.759 like it doesn't take a huge media team. That's the other pushback we got 195 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.039 is, oh, this is too expensive. It's too expensive. I don't 196 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.360 think it needs to be. I mean, we're executing this with B two 197 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.240 B growth, with a three person team. We're gonna wind this one down. 198 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:18.960 But I love having these conversations I love kind of giving a peek behind 199 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.919 the curtain of how we're thinking about this at sweet Fish and how B TWOB 200 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.720 growth is playing into too our company strategy. It's not just this kind of 201 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.679 side piece that so many companies look at their podcast. It's just like this 202 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.559 little tactical thing over on the side. Now, this is central to our 203 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.000 company's growth strategy, and I think that should be how other marketing leaders are 204 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:43.240 looking at their media brand as well. So thank you all so much for 205 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:46.679 listening. Um Dan, thanks for jumping on here and talking through this. 206 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:50.759 That's it for today's episode of the Journey. Remember there are a lot of 207 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:56.360 ways to win in B two B marketing, but commodity content is the enemy. 208 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:01.120 Focus on affinity over awareness. Don't just be this able, be memorable 209 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.559 for all things GDP growth. Visit GDP Growth Show dot com and connect with 210 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.440 us over on LinkedIn. We're out.