Transcript
WEBVTT
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Mhm
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Welcome back to GDP Growth. I'm Leslie
Cruise today. I am really excited to be
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joined by cinnamon Murray. She is our
launch specialist here at sweet fish.
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So she handles all of our launches from
the kickoff call all the way through to
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production and she was previously a
producer. So she has recently just
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transformed over to that launch
specialist role and has had an
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opportunity to learn a lot about
podcasting from a completely different
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angle um in the past couple of months.
So cinnamon, thank you so much for
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joining me today on BB growth. How are
you doing today? I'm wonderful. How you
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doing Leslie? I'm good. I'm good. I'm
excited to talk to you. We had a lot of
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fun in our pre call and I think what
we're going to talk about today is
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going to add a lot of value to our
listeners. So specifically, we talked
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about thinking differently and you and
I were talking about inviting your
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customers to think differently. So a
lot of times in this role we kind of
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tend to see a lot of the same old, same
old and B two B podcasting habits and I
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think it's really because people when
they're starting a podcast are afraid
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to step out of the box are afraid to
step out of that comfort zone. And one
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example that you mentioned that I, you
know, I completely loved was to invite
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your customers to interview their
competitors and I would love to talk to
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you about this for a minute and why you
would recommend this, especially to
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someone who is newer to the BdB
podcasting space? Yeah. Okay. So where
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that stems from? Right? So one of the
customers I was launching said that
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they went to their E. O. And um, this
was the C'mon and they said they went
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to the Ceo and was like, hey, I want to
interview one of our competitors and
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the Ceo is just kind of like, okay,
just don't make us look bad. So, you
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know, I mean, I'm sure there's been a
report built up between the two of them,
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but the cmos approach was, I feel like
even though, yeah, we are quote unquote
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competitors, if we are able to kind of
address and acknowledge some of the
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common issues that we're facing in our
industry, not only will it make it more
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real for other people, but I think it
will almost um, position is both as
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thought leaders because we're willing
to more or less work to get to work
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together. Um really, it's just a
conversation. So it's not like you
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decided to partner up or anything like
that. So I felt that that was very much
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a clutch move and let's be clear. It
was not my idea. It was totally this
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customers idea all on his own. But when
I listened to the episode afterward, it
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was like, oh my gosh, this was very
brilliant because you start to see, I
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think both companies started to see the
holes for lack of a better word in
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their business and then their model and
their business model and in their
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customer experience because it was like
they almost had the exact same issues.
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So, so it's like, okay, it's almost
like you're looking in a mirror in that
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instance and not only that, but it kind
of builds a level of respect for one
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another that, you know, you probably
already have, but it amplifies it. And
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I think it almost made them not feel
like competitors anymore. Honestly,
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like by the end of it because they know
even more so like what each other's
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intentions are and they could see, okay,
actually their models slightly
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different from ours, but as you know,
in business, if, if there's a small
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difference in how you approach things
or what your product is or your
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services, it does make a difference on
the back end. So that was really cool.
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Absolutely. And you and I talked about
almost being like free consultation,
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right? Because I mean we see this in
the podcast world in general because I
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think that, you know, just issues that
we've been having and hearing our
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competitors talk about it even on
linkedin is really great because it
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makes you see like, okay, we're not
alone in this. You know, I mean, we've
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been having issues with apple podcasts
for awhile since they recently did
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their new rebrand. Um, and I saw
someone post about it on linkedin the
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other day that was a competitor of ours
and I connected with them and was like,
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oh, it's so good to see that you're
going through this as well. It's not
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just, you know, we're stuck in, we're
stuck over here and we're dealing with
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the situation on our own. Like, no,
they're dealing with it too. So how are
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you dealing with it? You know, like you
said, it's like free consultation,
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which is really interesting. Exactly,
yeah, I think that was the main points
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and that it's just, it's almost like
viewing another person in the same
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industry. Yeah, they're your competitor
because you're fighting, quote unquote,
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fighting for the same customers, but
you have different missions, you have
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different reasons for why you start to
have different reasons for why you're
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doing it, you have probably different
goals. So literally the only thing
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which I know is a big thing is like
you're you're trying to get the same
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customers. But Yeah, it is like a free
consultation, it's like a free
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consultation with somebody who actually
knows what they're talking about versus
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someone who has been in the industry
for 20 years and now they've been
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retired for 10. like exactly, you know,
and it's like okay because that's
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usually the main thing that I run into
in some personal endeavors that I have
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is that like I'll seek a consultant and
they will have had experience in the
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industry, but the last time they did a
big project was like two years ago and
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it's like, okay, wait, I can't do
anything with it, not relatable, this
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is not your not even relating to me
right now. So um but it's like you
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don't you don't want to invalidate the
experience that they have because it is
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still they still have that experience
like that's there, but it's not as
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tangible and it's not as tactical and
because I'm a very tactical person, I
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need to know like what step 1231.11
point 21.3 and then once all those are
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done, like if I don't have those, I'm
frustrated. So I've come out of
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consultations like Now what like I
literally get to the end and I'll be
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like, so what am I supposed to do
though? Right, right. You know, 100%. I
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think one thing that will help like
combat that and I think that you and I
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talked about this a lot was conducting
research and the importance of
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conducting research. Um and I've seen
it time and time again where people
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tend to really want to skip this step.
Um but I think it can save a lot of
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money and you know, even time
essentially in the long run, right? So
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do you mind leaning into that a little
bit? Research is empowering. First and
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foremost, it gives you confidence to
know whatever situation you're going
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into, that you at least are able to
stand your ground would be like going
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into a courtroom and not knowing the
law. You know, it's like, what do you
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even, you know, what are you even
talking about right now, if you haven't,
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even during your research and it will
give you confidence in that in that
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particular scenario, but also it gives
you a little bit more leverage because
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people respect data, people respect
numbers. And if you don't have that, or
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some, or some sort of like a viable
source that you got your information
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from, you lose respect really quickly.
So, so it's kind of like with research
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the importance of it, it's not only for
you so that you can feel empowered to
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go into situations, it's so that your
your reputation stays intact because
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it's like if you move forward into
certain scenarios and I can't really
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think of a specific one now. But I
think you get the point is that if you
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move forward into something and you
haven't done your research, it almost
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seems like you're you're irresponsible,
especially quote unquote in this day
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and age. I think people say that, but I
just said it because it's like the
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information is so readily available,
it's like, yeah, it's hard to even take
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you seriously. Um if you haven't done
it yet, I actually haven't done your
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research. So I think that's the
importance of it. Absolutely. And let's
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talk a little about the steps in
conducting research and what that looks
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like. So whenever you're setting
yourself up to whether it's to speak to
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a customer a new client or even like in
a personal situation, what is the 1st
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and 2nd step that you take in
conducting that research? Yeah. So I
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will like I will give more um tangible
examples because I feel like like we
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said I feel when I go to consultations
I'm like wait so what do I do? So these
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are just examples for me that I've done
that I've seen work that I think can
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transfer over. So when I was going to
grad school for example um before I
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even like decided okay I'm going to
apply, I'm gonna do that's gonna do
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that. I would research um Like some of
the students that were in the program
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like past, present and future. Um So
like I joined facebook group, you know
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for example where prospective students
at X. Y. Z. College or whatever. Um I
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talked to past students, people who
were who had graduated to have gone on
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to do things that I wanted to do or
didn't really gone in the field at all.
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Like for example my degrees in music
technology, but some past students that
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I noticed were like, you know, computer
engineers and they studied music
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business. And so I'm like wait, how did
this happen? Um So trying to discover
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what those those there the correlation
is between those things and it's easy
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to want to start at the top and work
your way and more or less work your way
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down. Like it's easy to want to go to
in this example of professors or deans
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of students or the office of admissions,
like it's easy to start there, but it
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makes more sense to kind of start at
the bottom and work your way up because
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the last thing you want is to waste the
dean of students time. Um, So that
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being said, I would look up, okay, a
particular student, um, see what they
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studied and even look at the overall
matriculation of their academic career.
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So sometimes I'd be like, okay, what,
what state are they from? Okay, what,
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what, what is that state good at when
it comes to education? Um, what
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extracurricular activities are really
involved in? What are there, uh, social
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media pages? And because of the nature
of the industry, like the music
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industry, people want to be seen. So
they're either on linkedin or they're
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on instagram. Pretty much. So, um of
course that goes to knowing where your
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people are, but figuring all that out
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and even figuring out like what age
range there in, right? Because that
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kind of determines um it's not going to
be exact, but
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it kind of determines okay, maybe
they're married, maybe they have kids,
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or no, they're fresh out of high school,
like, you know, they, you know, they're
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probably in a similar boat to me at
that time, right? So, you know, that
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research and, and, and then deciding,
like, okay, maybe this is a good person
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to talk to. Um And it's not necessarily
because our backgrounds will be similar,
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it be because of my interest, really,
like, okay, how did they land in this
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area? So that was, that would be some
of the steps that I would take. Um And
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even from there, it was kind of its own
version of a marketing hacks, and I'm
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not a marketer, so I'm like, okay, but
basically, from that point on, if I got
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a good connection with that student,
they'd be like, oh, I'll connect you to
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this other student who would then
connect me to like the program director,
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you know? And then at that point it's
it's a warm lead at that point versus
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me trying to email someone who probably
gets hundreds of emails a day um and
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hoping that they replied to my email,
so literally doing all that research on
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everyone and at least having an idea of
what it is that you're trying to
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accomplish rather than
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solely network, because I think people,
like people can sniff out, like if
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you're just trying to use them or if
you're just really trying to get your
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foot in the door and yeah, like being
at this point now, like being, not
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being genuine and sincere about like,
your connection with people and really
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being interested in what they're doing,
it starts to become pretty evident
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pretty quickly. So
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Yeah, absolutely. Um That's great
advice and I think that this can apply
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really well to be to be also um you
know in our industry specifically, you
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know if you're looking at a software or
an agency that you're considering
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buying into or considering trying a
demo with them, but you're just not
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really sure yet. I think looking and
doing that research, talking to past
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customers. So for example if someone
was interested in maybe starting a
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podcast right, looking at our agency,
talking to past customers, president
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customers, people who work closely with
us and saying, hey what do you like
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about this agency? What don't you like
going to look at their podcast
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specifically and see how it was
produced? You know, look at their very
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first episode, go through kind of look
at their analytics, see how they're
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doing um talking to those people before
agreeing to the demo. It's like you're
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starting from the bottom and you're
working your way up. So not only is
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that beneficial for you, but you're
also building that relationship with
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that person who can then, like you said,
get you connected with the right person
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who needs to share the demo with you or
whatever it might be. So I think that's
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a really, really great example. Yeah.
And the other thing is by the time you
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get connected to the right person,
because we think we know who's the
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right person. But What I've personally
found is that like eight times out of
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10, the person that you really need to
be connected with is you probably
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haven't even heard of. Uh so you're
like, oh well, you know, you think so
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and so I mean the so and so is the face
of the company, but this is the person
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who runs it, you know? Um this is the
person who makes the higher is this the
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person who accept students? Like this
is the person that you probably need to
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talk to? Um So you learned that along
the way, and then you realize, oh, if I
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would have started at X person, I would
have actually wasted my time. So yeah,
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absolutely. And you know, somebody who
might be listening to this sitting here
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thinking, oh man research sounds really
good on the surface, but I personally
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have no time for that. What is
something that you would say to them?
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What is some advice you would offer? Um,
So how do you find the time essentially
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to conduct this research? Yeah, it is
part of my, like,
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personal development time. Um to me,
it's like a second job almost, but not
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not to the extent of like it's another
40 hour week, 10 hours a week. For me
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it's like an extra two hours a week. Um
And sometimes I do that in one long
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sitting because it's just easier to,
because research becomes very linear.
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Um but
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like setting literally setting aside
time is one of those things where if
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you don't put on your calendar, it's
never, it's never gonna happen. Um but
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like when you do it actually sit down
and be focused and be like keep an open
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mind to finding new things and yeah,
like I said, you may be looking to
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connect to X person but just be open to
knowing, hey, it's probably someone
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else that you're not familiar with. I
mean, it's like who, who is the quote
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base? I think it was chris rock. It was
just like, you know,
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um, Shaq is rich, but the person who
writes his checks is wealthy and that's
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probably who you don't know exists,
right? So you see shock or whatever,
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but you probably like someone is
writing his checks, you know? So, um
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there's people who are more and it's
not like a, you know, trying to get to
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the person in power type of thing. It's
just like if you really know your
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intentions behind why are you doing
research and what you're looking to
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gain? Um, and go from there now with
the two hours like this may be, becomes
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a whole other subject of how to manage
your time when you're like in a flow
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state, but knowing that you may not
land where you intend to and being okay
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with that. And uh, knowing that you
actually may change your mind, like, OK,
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this is not actually the university
that I want to go to. I just learned
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that In this past two hours. And really
if you think about it, like in the
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grand scheme, like you save yourself,
this is just to continue with my
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example. You save yourself an entire
application, right? And you save
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yourself for years worth of depending
on if you get funding or not student
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loans, right? So it's like thousands of
dollars. So you literally just save
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yourself money. So by just spending two
hours of research in the long run, it
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saves you time to I mean, I know it
seems daunting on the surface, it's
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called me on this. Research is going to
take me X amount of hours, X amount of
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time. But in the long run, like if you
go to the wrong university or you go
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with the wrong agency or whatever it
might be, you use the wrong software
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that's going to take you, you know
that's going to take six months off of
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what, you know six months to several
years off of something that you could
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have avoided in two hours of research.
So. Exactly. That's huge. So tell me
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what do you do when you run out of
ideas for original research? Yes. So
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what I do is I actually start to try to
find organizations that are centered
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around what I'm interested in. Um And
again like all of this is applicable to
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like personal endeavors and
professional endeavors. Um I found that
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there is pretty much an organization
for everything. Uh So so like looking
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at seeing who the members are in those
organizations like you know the
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societies, the greek organizations, the
honor societies, the um the non profits,
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the for profits. Like all of these
different types of organizations,
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seeing who like the president of the
organization is, who the founder is.
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And then again from there I go down,
right, because you don't like, I don't
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wanna start at the top for me, I don't
like to start at the top, but, and then
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you start to say, okay, well there's
this people who are um and the texas
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area, which is where I'm based out of,
right? So okay, so maybe somebody is in
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the city that I met. Okay, well one
person in this or this national
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organization lives actually in Austin
somewhere or they work at University of
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texas at Austin. Okay, cool. So now I'm
I'm on linkedin, seeing what they were
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doing and more often than not,
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that's why I kind of, that's why I
alluded to like know where your, where
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your people are because the music
industry there on instagram like we
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want to be seen, we want to be known
like the artists and stuff are on
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instagram. But the music executives,
yeah, they're on linkedin. They're not
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on instagram. So, so it's like knowing
where people are and then being able to
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go from there. Um, yeah, starting at
those organizations, you start to find
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other like interest too because they're
sometimes they have special interest
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groups in various sectors. They have
regional chapters and then the chapters
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have, you know, meet ups or they have
their own conferences and organization
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as a whole has its national conference
or whatever the case may be and like,
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gosh the prime time and I'm not trying
to trivialize like the covid by any
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means because I recognize and honor
that a lot of people lost their lives
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for sure. Um on the other hand of that
it was the prime time to kind of do
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everything that wasn't accessible to
you because of job because of a
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geographic influence, right? Everyone
went took everything online. So I
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started doing like conferences online
that were based out of L. A. That I
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couldn't, I mean I'm not find L. A. So
he wants to do that. And it's like the
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price becomes like the playing field
was levelled. Like the price is the
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same for everyone. You know what I'm
saying? Like The price to go to this
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conference is $50 for everyone in the
world vs Oh it's $50 for me because I
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live in the city that the conference is
held so I can just drive there or I
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have to buy a plane ticket and get a
hotel. Now it's $1,500. Okay great. Now
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I can't even go right? So it's like and
that's just me. That's my financial
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like Status, right? I mean not 1500 but
you know what I'm saying? So so it's
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like it really leveled the playing
field to
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to have things online. Um So when I run
out of ideas for research. Yeah I
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started organizations and um from there
I honestly start to look at more things
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like j store like scholarly journals. I
look at individuals dissertations. Um
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Because more often than not, if it's a
recent dissertation that is someone who
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may have just graduated or just
defended their dissertation. And um
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they're pretty they're going to be
pretty easy to access because they're
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not, you know, a
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I don't even know, I don't even want to
say that because sometimes you say you
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don't want to reach out to certain
professors at schools, but professors
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represent the school at the end of the
day. And so if someone is reaching out
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to them, asking them questions about
the university, they are kind of I
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don't know what their contract is, but
they're kind of obliged to answer
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because it's like they're they're part
of the greater good of the school. So
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if someone is interested in the school,
yeah, typically the professors are
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going to answer you. Um But yeah, I
start looking at organisations, reading
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dissertation and it's going to like j
store um And finding like free
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resources. Uh Really understanding
those finding documentaries. I love
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documentaries. Um But you have to be
careful documentaries because they can
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be pretty biased is the only tell the
only tell one side of the story. So if
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I find a documentary I basically try to
find something that says that
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documentary is bullshit. So after I
watched the entire documentary, I'm
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like, yeah, I love apples. And then I
watch all right, read something else
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that explains why you shouldn't eat
apples, you know? So then I try to I
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try to balance myself out. I'm like,
yeah, I just, I mean, of course I just
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absorbed all that information as to why
I should eat apples. I'm going to be
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biased about eating apples now. So, uh,
documentaries are great. And like those
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are for the most part free. Um, and
yeah, and then for me to, it's like
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looking up who was involved in making
these documentaries because more often
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than not, they're, I mean, they're just
regular people like you and me, who
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literally they just may, they may have
been like contractors on it. And a lot
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of times people are really honored to
know that you've recognized their work.
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And I mean you can imagine how it feels
like if someone came to you and said,
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Hey, I saw that you were a Gaffie for
this documentary. Like of course there
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are more than likely they're going to
be like flattered that, you know, you
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acknowledge their role in that
documentary and most incredible things
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have, have to have, who all was
involved in it. So no person is too
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small to reach out to. And you don't,
you just don't know like you don't know
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how much influence or what role that
person can play in your professional
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and personal life. So I don't like
discount anybody. Yeah, absolutely. And
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another thing, just leaning into that a
little bit is, you know, you talked
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about find your people where they are
and anybody who's listening to this can
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take something from this. This is a
conversation that I've been having
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recently and I know that, you know,
here at Sweet Fish, we press about
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linkedin connect on linkedin. Um your
audience is unlinked in, but it's not
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always the case. It's totally not
always the case. I mean I have someone
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who the audience that they're trying to
reach is there are comedy business
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podcast. Right? So the audience that
they're trying to reach is actually
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more on Tiktok and it's more on reddit
and it's not so much on linked in. So I
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think that is huge. Whenever you're
doing that research is finding your
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people where they are, it might not be
on linked in. And I think that is such
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an important thing to make a note of.
Yeah, 100% I think a big part of that
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too is like, yeah, I know where your
people are and if they're on, you know,
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Tiktok like actually have a Tic tac
account, like set up, you know, like,
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don't come to me, you know, like if
someone comes to me with a profile that
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doesn't have a picture and it's some
obscure name or it's a picture of their
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cat. Like I'm, I'm like, what's going
on? So you're not responding? That's
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for sure. I'm like, I'm like, what's
happening? You know, I'm nervous? And
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if it's some sort of weird message,
like, hey, can you talk? And that's
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creepy. Um so, so yeah, it's like
actually having a profile, you know,
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like linkedin, I feel can get pretty
dangerous because if you're not careful,
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it's like if your profile is not
updated, you know, employers and your
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00:25:42.610 --> 00:25:48.840
colleagues are all looking at that. So
it's like, ok, that if somebody sees,
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um if you say that you did something
that you didn't do at your job or
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00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:55.570
something like that, it's like people
are going to call you out for or
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00:25:55.570 --> 00:25:59.210
they're going to like, call you out in
their head about it, but maybe, maybe
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that's me being like, paranoid. I'm
like, okay, you know, I don't, I mean,
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I'm not lying on linkedin, but it's
just kind of like, I'm very aware of it
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versus on instagram, like I went to the
beach over a year ago and now I'm
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00:26:13.090 --> 00:26:16.260
posting the picture. So now you think
I'm at the beach, You know what I'm
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saying? Like Yeah, like there's just a
different, there's different dynamics
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and being aware of like those nuances
and what people are taking with what
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you're putting out into the world. Um
it's important to be aware of how that
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looks on different platforms, cinnamon.
This has been really, really great. And
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this has been great advice inviting
people to think differently. I think is
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huge for not only the Bdb space, but
also like you mentioned in your
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personal life thinking differently,
conducting research. So, so, so
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important. Can you tell our listeners
where they can find you online if they
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would like to connect? Um and learn
more? Yeah, sure. So my, my full name
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is Cinnamon Denise Murray. So yeah,
that's what's on linkedin for sure, but
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I'm the other on the flip side of that.
I am also a musician and um my stage
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name, I guess my real name and my stage
name is cinnamon Denise. Uh, so, um I
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am on instagram, facebook linkedin,
twitter and I do respond to all
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messages that I get even if they're
creepy because I'm like, okay, you need
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to know that this is creepy, but high.
So so, but I mean, yeah, so I, I I love
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connecting with people and it's
something that I kind of thrive off of,
359
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especially just one on one connection
rather than big groups. Maybe that's a
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introverted, extroverted thing or
something awesome. Fantastic. Thank you
361
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.650
again so much for being a guest on GDP
Growth. I appreciate it. Thanks less.
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00:27:49.650 --> 00:27:51.350
I'll talk to you soon. Have a great day.
All
363
00:27:54.840 --> 00:27:58.860
is the decision maker for your product
or service of BB marketer. Are you
364
00:27:58.860 --> 00:28:03.070
looking to reach those buyers through
the medium of podcasting? Considered
365
00:28:03.070 --> 00:28:08.290
becoming a co host of GDP growth. This
show is consistently ranked as a top
366
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of apple podcasts And the show gets
367
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We've already done the work of building
368
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the audience so you can focus on
delivering incredible content to our
369
00:28:22.050 --> 00:28:26.460
listeners if you're interested, email
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