Innovating Your Revenue Syndication

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:09.269 Hey everyone, logan with sweet fish here. As you may already know, 2 00:00:09.470 --> 00:00:14.109 we've had the HASHTAG agency series running for a while now here on bb growth. 3 00:00:14.830 --> 00:00:18.710 Over the next several weeks you'll be able to listen in to select episodes 4 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:23.980 of the Innovative Agency, hosted by Sharon Tork, as she leads conversations with 5 00:00:24.179 --> 00:00:28.940 agency leaders about how their teams are staying on the cutting edge of marketing trends, 6 00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:33.380 how they're adapting their businesses to meet new challenges and a whole lot more. 7 00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:39.450 All right, let's get into the episode. Welcome everybody back to another 8 00:00:39.530 --> 00:00:43.090 episode of the Innovative Agency. This is share and tork. Really happy to 9 00:00:43.170 --> 00:00:49.250 be with all of you again today and I am extremely excited. I was 10 00:00:49.409 --> 00:00:53.240 telling today's guests, who I'm going to introduce to you in just a second, 11 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:57.679 this a minute ago. There are very few occasions on which I regret 12 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:02.359 that this isn't a video podcast, and today's one of them, because I'm 13 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:04.269 kind of bouncing up and done on my chair about today's topic. I am 14 00:01:04.349 --> 00:01:12.590 really excited about having an innovation conversation around agency business models, agency pricing models 15 00:01:14.189 --> 00:01:19.939 and the whole question of can you truly transform your revenue model to make it 16 00:01:21.739 --> 00:01:26.260 value based. And you know, I've had a million conversations about this with 17 00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:30.659 agency folks over the years and and I am really excited about the take of 18 00:01:30.859 --> 00:01:36.409 today's guest, who is Jeff Pedowitz of the paedow is group. Jeff, 19 00:01:36.489 --> 00:01:38.849 thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to our 20 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.250 conversation. My pleasure. Sharing really happy to be here and I wish we 21 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:45.849 could be on video too, because this is a topic that I get very 22 00:01:45.890 --> 00:01:48.879 excited about. All right, well, you know what, maybe we'll have 23 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.680 to do an encore at some later point in time and we'll do it with 24 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:57.159 cameras in both places. Sounds good. So, first of all, Patowitz 25 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:02.670 group is located in the Atlanta area. Correct, we are, but we 26 00:02:02.989 --> 00:02:08.310 have employee in twenty five states. Okay, got it. So I would 27 00:02:08.389 --> 00:02:14.069 love to hear a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey as an agency owner and 28 00:02:15.030 --> 00:02:17.939 your work in the industry, and then I can't wait to get into our 29 00:02:17.979 --> 00:02:25.099 conversation about business model innovation. Sure, absolutely so. I'm three time entrepreneur, 30 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:30.050 says. My first company I actually owned and operate at thirty five subway 31 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:37.370 sandwich stores in you so that we could probably do a whole podcast around that. 32 00:02:37.849 --> 00:02:44.169 Transitioned into technology and IT and then I owned a sales training company for 33 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:47.560 several years and I've had a Padowitz group for the last thirteen years. So 34 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:54.080 this is truly my life's passion. And got into this because I was working 35 00:02:54.120 --> 00:03:00.110 in professional services at Kala, which was an early pioneer in marketing animation, 36 00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:07.830 and I just realized my true love of consulting, technology, marketing and business. 37 00:03:07.189 --> 00:03:14.460 And so for the last thirteen years we've built a world class consulting organization 38 00:03:14.659 --> 00:03:20.659 that helps our clients get keeping grow revenue by building better customer experiences, driving 39 00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:27.409 digital transformation and leading business transformation. It's that's a fascinating journey from being a 40 00:03:27.969 --> 00:03:32.810 but in some ways probably not as surprising, given that really the in the 41 00:03:32.889 --> 00:03:38.729 franchise world, whether it's fitness, food, whatever, it is really all 42 00:03:38.770 --> 00:03:45.479 about the systemization and and more than anything, about the marketing, because stay 43 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:50.240 on brand is critical to success and you've got to build the engine that helps 44 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:53.199 you do that. So I think it kind of all it kind of all 45 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:57.710 fits together. It is I mean I before I even got into franchising, 46 00:03:57.750 --> 00:04:01.469 I as I grew up as a teenager I worked in New Jersey and Greek 47 00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:06.310 diners because you could find a Greek diner just by every corner and they knew 48 00:04:06.349 --> 00:04:10.460 how to get every penny. I mean when you scrape and catch up bottles 49 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:14.500 and counting grains assault literally, you know it's just but you're really bring to 50 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:18.500 measure. But I also had a computer when I was twelve and I taught 51 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:23.939 myself had a program so I've just had these two passions. And then moving 52 00:04:23.980 --> 00:04:28.610 from that restaurant business into franchising, where you really learn a lot about inventory 53 00:04:28.649 --> 00:04:31.769 and cost controls and you don't have big marketing budgets and you really have to 54 00:04:31.850 --> 00:04:35.490 learn how to stretch every penney to get people coming to your stores. But 55 00:04:35.569 --> 00:04:41.279 you also learned a lot about customer service at a very at a very early 56 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:44.800 age and how important is to run a good, tight operation and to be 57 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.639 consistent with that operation. So those things, along with my loop technology you 58 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.470 actually has been a good foundation for for my life's passion. So I wanted 59 00:04:54.509 --> 00:04:59.629 to talk a little bit about the things it stood out to me as I 60 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:05.709 was learning more about how to its group were sort of this focus on developing 61 00:05:05.790 --> 00:05:11.579 a body of knowledge around for the benefit of your clients, around the types 62 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:15.139 of things that you do to help your clients, and we'll get into the 63 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:19.899 business model discussion and just a quick second, but I wanted to say that 64 00:05:20.379 --> 00:05:29.810 I think that other agencies could take a page from this and it's an opportunity 65 00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:35.680 to take the expertise that you have and turn it into something that not only 66 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:43.319 is an influence builder and also a credibility, I don't know credibility point of 67 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:48.040 distinction, but also can freestand as a revenue center on its own if you 68 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:54.230 want it too. I know you've created Revenue Marketing University at the agency and 69 00:05:55.430 --> 00:06:00.110 it looks like it's not a priced product, but I am imagining that you 70 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:04.019 use it as a screening tool, as an education tool, to also drive 71 00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:08.220 revenue to other parts of the business. So you're not at all new to 72 00:06:08.379 --> 00:06:14.060 building to building value in different ways in your agency. It seems like no, 73 00:06:14.420 --> 00:06:17.930 and we, my partner, Debbi Gigiche. Dr Debbi Gi Giche really 74 00:06:18.050 --> 00:06:24.370 invented the term revenue marketing back in two thousand and ten and we have been 75 00:06:24.410 --> 00:06:30.810 very successful at monetizing and building ip around there with methodologies, with published research, 76 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:34.000 with all leadership it's driven a lot of our work with clients. We 77 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:38.480 have a lot of people now having titles of Vice President of Revenue Marketing and 78 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:43.279 following our methodology and of course, many consultants out there of copied or taking 79 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:47.790 portions of our maturity models. We are actually launching an April and updated version 80 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:53.870 of Revenue Marketing University with a whole new selection of classes and courses that are 81 00:06:53.910 --> 00:06:58.750 quite extensive, and so we will actually be monetizing that even further. So 82 00:06:58.990 --> 00:07:04.980 that's a great segue into our conversation today about agencies and revenue models, agencies 83 00:07:05.060 --> 00:07:10.420 and business models, and we had a conversation just a few months a few 84 00:07:10.459 --> 00:07:19.610 minutes ago, about how challenging that traditional model is of raising revenue, and 85 00:07:19.689 --> 00:07:23.649 so I wanted to just get your thoughts about that right now, about what 86 00:07:23.810 --> 00:07:30.639 the state of business models is right now with independent agencies and and about your 87 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.439 point of view about why it needs to change or why agencies need to strongly 88 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:40.319 consider changing. Yeah, I think that the agency is and consultants in any 89 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:45.149 professional service firms right including lawyers, accounts, architects and so on, have 90 00:07:45.350 --> 00:07:51.389 been bound for a hundred years to this concept of the billable hour and utilization 91 00:07:51.829 --> 00:07:58.069 and time, and customers become very condition to buying it that way, particularly 92 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:01.459 or carement departments, who really love to negotiate on rate. But but ultimately 93 00:08:03.339 --> 00:08:07.939 how what you charge per hour and what your price unit per hour is or 94 00:08:07.019 --> 00:08:11.860 how long it takes to do something has nothing to do with the outcome and 95 00:08:11.899 --> 00:08:16.250 value that you provide for your customer. And so it's a really it's an 96 00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:20.529 antiquated model. It does not mutually beneficial, if anything, as to the 97 00:08:20.649 --> 00:08:26.569 detriment of both the client and the agency, because the of the client is 98 00:08:26.610 --> 00:08:30.560 focusing in on time and how long it takes to do something, then they're 99 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.639 they're focused on the wrong thing. They should be focused on the business result 100 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.440 of why they hired the agency in the first place. To get the agency 101 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:43.070 is missing out because ultimately agencies form consultants, Form Lawyers, form or knowledge 102 00:08:43.070 --> 00:08:46.990 workers. Right, we're selling our knowledge, our life's experience, our ability 103 00:08:48.070 --> 00:08:52.669 to think critically and provide insights. Why should that be limited to time? 104 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:56.139 What if I come up with an idea in the morning of the shower that 105 00:08:56.259 --> 00:08:58.500 will save my client five million dollars? Am I supposed to build them for 106 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.500 five minutes because I thought of how it in the shower or do I do? 107 00:09:01.539 --> 00:09:05.019 I negotiate for percentage of the five million dollars that I save them. 108 00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:11.490 And so it becomes a very it's an antiquated model. And then you get 109 00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:18.090 artificial cost constraints. So because you keep your talent, you develop your talent, 110 00:09:18.129 --> 00:09:20.090 you raise the salaries and the talent, but then the market doesn't want 111 00:09:20.090 --> 00:09:24.090 to pay for a higher all hourly rate, so your margins get compressed. 112 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:26.240 So the only way that you can make more money is you make that resource 113 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:30.399 work harder. Or Oh, you you're on a path to partner. So 114 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:33.279 if you're eighty hours a week for five years and kill yourself, then maybe 115 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.480 you get a partner because by that point you would have generated enough money. 116 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:39.269 Oh, by the way, not only do you still have to work that 117 00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:43.429 time, you have to bring in business to it's just it's just doesn't make 118 00:09:43.509 --> 00:09:46.470 sense. And then when you look at transitions to how we work, how 119 00:09:46.470 --> 00:09:50.870 we live today, how families are living, people want more work life balance, 120 00:09:50.950 --> 00:09:54.419 worklife rhythm and they want a lot more flexibility. They don't want to 121 00:09:54.460 --> 00:09:58.779 work like that anymore and maintain a quality of life. So so yeah, 122 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:01.740 the whole the whole world needs to be turned up on side of the on 123 00:10:01.899 --> 00:10:05.340 side of itself. So we're coming up with new models all the time and 124 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.730 we've we've had a lot of good success with it early on or we're just 125 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:18.009 getting started. So this you are definitely speaking my language and so many ice. 126 00:10:18.169 --> 00:10:22.440 First of all, I'm an IP lawyer by training, so and also 127 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:28.639 it's also happens to be the way that I ultimately began working with agencies and 128 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.200 form this firm to work with agencies. But next it's really one of the 129 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:41.029 driving forces behind why I wanted to have a podcast to talk about innovation in 130 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:46.350 all of its forms as it effects agencies. And what I found on this 131 00:10:46.470 --> 00:10:48.590 particular topic, and I love to get your take on this, is a 132 00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:56.659 great deal of fear on the part of and and it's interesting to me because 133 00:10:56.700 --> 00:11:03.500 agency leaders and owners tend to be more comfortable, in my experience, with 134 00:11:03.700 --> 00:11:09.570 risk then owners and other types of businesses. They're not as shy about taking 135 00:11:09.649 --> 00:11:13.490 risk as in some other industries. Yet on this topic, on this topic 136 00:11:13.610 --> 00:11:18.679 of changing their business model and either, I don't know, having the the 137 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:24.759 confidence to move ahead with an alternate form of pricing or, however, you 138 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:30.399 want to characterize it. They just it's just been such a slow transition and 139 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:35.350 I wonder what your thoughts are about the why of this. And and then 140 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:41.870 did you start your current company planning from the get go to be to build 141 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:46.350 your revenue model differently like this? So I would say no, I probably 142 00:11:46.389 --> 00:11:48.740 in store it in the beginning, although I've always been open to finding different 143 00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:52.980 ways to price and sell and kind of pushing the envelope. But no, 144 00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:58.820 I can't say that I started thinking that specifically by very actively over the last 145 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:03.409 six or seven years I've been very focused on changing to that model. And 146 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:07.169 well, Guy, I face resistance, even with my own team. It's 147 00:12:07.289 --> 00:12:13.090 been difficult to get people to conceptualize how it could be done differently, how 148 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.919 to design their tasks and work streams differently, and we're still in a process 149 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:22.480 of making those changes and it has not always been smooth, but we are 150 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:28.000 seeing a lot of success and we are seeing that mindshift happen. I think 151 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.669 that a lot of entrepreneurs or a particular agency, gist and consultants, they're 152 00:12:31.669 --> 00:12:37.190 willing to take risks around the solutions they design because they want a new challenge 153 00:12:37.669 --> 00:12:41.830 there they're open to going into new markets or trying to sell something that maybe 154 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:45.740 they haven't done before, deliver some service that they maybe they haven't done before. 155 00:12:46.419 --> 00:12:50.500 But that's not necessarily the same thing as being risks Holler when it comes 156 00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:58.570 to pricing and running the business. Most entrepreneurs are also very financially conservative when 157 00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.929 it comes to that, and so they're they're applying all their creative efforts to 158 00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:07.009 the job, not necessarily to so they're working in their business, but they're 159 00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:11.690 not working on their business, and I think most owners and people that I've 160 00:13:11.730 --> 00:13:16.360 talked to don't really have a clear exit strategy and I don't really have necessarily 161 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:20.759 a long end game. They're just really focus more on just running a good 162 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.480 business, which is fine, but when you don't think about maximizing long term 163 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:26.470 value, when you don't think about what your exit strategy is and work backwards, 164 00:13:26.470 --> 00:13:31.029 then you're actually leaving a lot of money on the table because you would 165 00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:35.269 make decisions very differently as a business owner if you did that right. Do 166 00:13:35.350 --> 00:13:43.860 you think? Was it your personal experience that this transition was more challenging internally, 167 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:50.179 building the systems, the processes, having the conversations internally with your team? 168 00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:56.850 Then it was pitching this sort of pricing model to your clients? Or 169 00:13:56.009 --> 00:14:00.809 was it are the clients the harder sell? What was your experience as you've 170 00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:05.730 been evolving here? I think it's probably been a little bit harder internally than 171 00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:11.200 it has been externally, and because it's been hard they're getting more people aligned 172 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.200 internally to come on kind of get because sure as to see you. So 173 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.159 I could come out and say, okay, we're going to sell it this 174 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:20.039 way and come up with this service, but that's not really a good way 175 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.629 of getting everyone aligned behind it. So if I go out and sell something 176 00:14:24.669 --> 00:14:28.710 and people don't know how to deliver it or against it, it's going to 177 00:14:28.789 --> 00:14:33.669 create even more problems. So I've got this dual responsibility right while I could 178 00:14:33.710 --> 00:14:37.190 probably go out and sell all kinds of things to customers and and and my 179 00:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.299 team will probably tell you I do that anyway, but by that you know. 180 00:14:41.419 --> 00:14:46.179 But it's but I'm also in many ways trying to do it within the 181 00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:50.220 models that we have. And when I we are trying to launch new services, 182 00:14:50.419 --> 00:14:52.690 I do spend more time trying to work with our team, trying to 183 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:58.210 figure out how we do it together and get some alignment, because otherwise it's 184 00:14:58.250 --> 00:15:00.730 going to come right back to me on the operation side. Right. So, 185 00:15:00.970 --> 00:15:01.929 sure we could sell it, but then there's going to be a lot 186 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:05.929 of friction internally if the team doesn't know or is in the line behind how 187 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:11.960 to deliver it. M So, and I think that what you just said 188 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:16.120 is probably it's can grow it, with what you said earlier about the internal 189 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.990 stuff being more challenging. I think I'm guessing, based on my experience running 190 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:24.710 a business and talking to other agents and talking to agency owners, is that 191 00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:33.669 it's take carving out that mental space and also that investment of time and dollars 192 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:39.019 to think about how to create the engine that will support that different kind of 193 00:15:39.379 --> 00:15:46.340 revenue basis is. It's hard work and it's not fast work and it's diverting 194 00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:52.889 in the short run, it's diverting time and attention from the client work that 195 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:56.049 you still have that you may be building the old fashioned way, but it 196 00:15:56.210 --> 00:15:58.929 is still bringing revenue into the business, which, yeah, I know. 197 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:03.009 Look, the best analogy I could give you is companies that, let's say, 198 00:16:03.009 --> 00:16:07.240 are in a hardware business or in a legacy licensing business and they're trying 199 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:12.720 to move to software as a serious or subscription based racing. They face similar 200 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:18.279 channels. If you've got legacy revenue streams, you've got the services model and 201 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:22.789 support and maintenance fees protecting the licensing model. You've got a lot of customers 202 00:16:22.830 --> 00:16:27.029 that are on long term enterprise license contracts. You're reticent to make that move 203 00:16:27.669 --> 00:16:33.940 and you're worried about taking the short term cash hit, cash flow hit, 204 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:37.500 revenue wrack hit, stock price hit, because it goes down before it goes 205 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:42.379 up. But again this goes back to what business are you in? Are 206 00:16:42.460 --> 00:16:48.529 you trying to maximize long term growth of a company or you try and optimize 207 00:16:48.610 --> 00:16:53.250 for now, and it's one of the hardest things to do. I think 208 00:16:53.409 --> 00:16:59.169 as a CEO is striking that balance, even though it is my own company 209 00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:00.720 in this case, I don't, you know, I it's you know, 210 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.599 I could make a lot more decisions, and I could have I was working 211 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:11.319 as a CEO for another company, but they're still has to be that sense 212 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.069 of balance. You really why? True, you could do anything, you 213 00:17:15.269 --> 00:17:19.789 really can't because because it's you know, it's kind it's going to come back 214 00:17:19.869 --> 00:17:22.990 to you, you know, in space, and you've got to have the 215 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:26.390 team along with you to do it. Otherwise you're going to be out on 216 00:17:26.470 --> 00:17:30.940 an island right. Well, yeah, you're. You're not going to you're 217 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:36.259 not going to get far very fast if you don't have somebody integrating always new 218 00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:41.019 models and solutions that you're coming up as a visionary. So it's definitely a 219 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:47.490 long play and I yeah, I'm my theory is that's one of the major 220 00:17:47.609 --> 00:17:52.970 reasons why it's been so hard for the agency world in general to to really 221 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:57.599 move as quickly as it probably is in a position to move, because I 222 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:03.640 think clients are hungry for these alternate ways of thinking about you know, consuming 223 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:10.880 the expertise that they need, but they need to be educated quickly if they've 224 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.589 never used the service this way in the past, and and to be Nimble. 225 00:18:15.670 --> 00:18:19.829 To do that, you have to have experience as as the service provider 226 00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:25.269 and delivering this, you know, in a repeatable way that's going to bring 227 00:18:25.309 --> 00:18:29.420 value to the client and be deliverable. But you need to do it anyway, 228 00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:33.740 I mean because it's the way I be. My job is I got 229 00:18:33.859 --> 00:18:37.579 to push my team so they're constantly dust a little bit uncomfortable, but not 230 00:18:37.819 --> 00:18:45.049 so uncomfortable that the walls of resistance goes up. So there's thirty things I'd 231 00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:48.009 love to be doing tomorrow that I know, or at least have a high 232 00:18:48.009 --> 00:18:52.210 degree of confidence anyway, that will work at the market is ready for but 233 00:18:52.970 --> 00:18:57.839 I could only really get my team three right now just because I don't it's 234 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.839 there's only it's like no different than your team. They're amazing, incredibly talented, 235 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.920 because this is only so many hours in a day and and I want 236 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.599 them to be able to focus and do a good job with the things that 237 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:12.309 were were you doing? Want to get your take on this question, because 238 00:19:12.549 --> 00:19:21.470 one of the alternate forms of Revenue Generation that your firm is working with is 239 00:19:22.910 --> 00:19:26.500 is taking a body of knowledge, taking a group a piece of intellectual property 240 00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:30.700 and putting it together and in a productized format. And I'll just take the 241 00:19:32.059 --> 00:19:33.859 example. I want to get some other examples from you in a minute, 242 00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:40.049 but I'll take them. The Revenue Marketing University. You're about to release a 243 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:45.210 new version of it. You'll monetize the new version and for me that is 244 00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:48.569 a completely logical and money your path. As an innellctual property lawyer, I 245 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:53.000 can totally see the value of where you got the Ip from, how you 246 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:57.119 put it together. I can see the process in my mind. By question 247 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:02.559 is I gotta tell you I see a lot of these opportunities in just about 248 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:07.470 every agency I work with and I also see a corresponding total reluctance on the 249 00:20:07.549 --> 00:20:14.509 part of the agency in and taking them and packaging them up or harnessing them 250 00:20:14.630 --> 00:20:19.750 and actually trying to use them to generate a more passive former revenue. Why 251 00:20:19.750 --> 00:20:23.420 do you think that is? Do you have a point of view about about 252 00:20:23.539 --> 00:20:30.099 why? There's probably three or four factors. One and well, I learned 253 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:34.420 us the hard way to you when you develop by Ping and services, you 254 00:20:34.970 --> 00:20:40.529 want to protect it and I think there's a worry that when you write books 255 00:20:40.809 --> 00:20:48.529 or you offer this training that you're exposing your Ip to to the world and 256 00:20:48.569 --> 00:20:52.200 your competitors and that people are going to take it so whereas if you keep 257 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.640 it behind the scenes and only you can deliver it, that's that you'll keep 258 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.119 hold on to that value longer. I've learned the hard way that's not really 259 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:07.349 the case. You can't control ideas and IP I've spent tens of thousands of 260 00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:12.390 dollars trying to in lawsuits and with the USPTO and trying to protect certain trademarks 261 00:21:12.430 --> 00:21:18.190 and it's push him a string uphill. Really, knowledge is power, but 262 00:21:18.349 --> 00:21:22.220 you so, but with the real knowledge is is even if you put out 263 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:26.700 a step by step instruction manual of everything that you know in your life and 264 00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:30.180 you put it free on the website, your customers would still hire you, 265 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:33.569 they would still need you. Even if your competitors copy what you're doing verbatim 266 00:21:34.289 --> 00:21:37.730 or by word and it's some document, they can't replace you or your team 267 00:21:38.049 --> 00:21:42.009 or the magic that you do when you work together or the relationships that you've 268 00:21:42.009 --> 00:21:48.400 built with your customers. So they're they're just ideas on paper, right. 269 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.880 So why not then monetize those ideas on paper? Why not then have so 270 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.559 that's that's one of the first reason. The second reason is people are so 271 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:03.470 attached to hoarly rate they don't realize how that passive revenue stream can build up 272 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:07.869 because their focused on but I need to deliver this fiftyzero engagement. Why would 273 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:11.150 I want to sell a class for a thousand dollars? They're not thinking of 274 00:22:11.269 --> 00:22:15.549 they're thinking about it in a one hundred forty one. They're not realizing that 275 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:18.779 their market is the world. While that maybe not the world, but you 276 00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:21.940 know, I mean much bigger than what they're thinking of. So people can 277 00:22:21.980 --> 00:22:27.019 come to the website and and subscribe and pay annual. So sure, in 278 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:30.849 the beginning I might be five or ten or fifteen customers that they're downloading and 279 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:34.890 paying for subscriptions, but over time it's going to add up to thousands, 280 00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:38.210 you know. So over five, seven and ten years, you know. 281 00:22:38.890 --> 00:22:44.250 Well, even if you're having, even if you just had a thousand people, 282 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:48.680 which isn't a lot, a thousand people paying a thousand dollars a year 283 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:52.359 for a subscription, which most people gone pretty comfortable with doing for all kinds 284 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.720 of stuff right, some million dollars of money that goes right to your bottom 285 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.990 line. Right now, for both agencies that are that are squeezing and desperately 286 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.829 trying to get over ten percent and profit. That's a lot of money, 287 00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:08.869 because the bok the vast majority of consultants and agencies in the US or between 288 00:23:10.470 --> 00:23:15.339 three Hundredzero, three million hmm in revenue. That that's where most of them 289 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:18.539 sit, ninety percent of them. So if you're in that bucket and then 290 00:23:18.539 --> 00:23:22.660 you're listening to this, what would you do with a million dollars of free 291 00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:26.859 flowing cash while each year and if you don't think it's possible, I'm telling 292 00:23:26.900 --> 00:23:30.529 you ran because we're doing it now and it's definitely possible. How did you 293 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:38.490 start this process of actually calming the corners of the Agency to find did you 294 00:23:38.529 --> 00:23:45.599 start with the theme or the idea for a product, or did you just 295 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.559 sort of occur to you and your team that you had all this body of 296 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.789 work in a particular area and that it could be swept into one product that 297 00:23:56.150 --> 00:24:00.109 would serve an audience? How? Tell me your part. I've always had 298 00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:03.750 that mindset just because of my background working at different companies and working with software 299 00:24:03.750 --> 00:24:10.579 companies and just have a out of business experience. I've always been an advocate 300 00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:18.019 of productizing services or turning intangibles into tangibles. That's not the same thing as 301 00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:22.420 developing software and selling it as a product, which I am against when you 302 00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:26.809 own a consulting and services from because I think it's really difficult to run both 303 00:24:26.890 --> 00:24:32.450 models the same time. Incredible strain on cash and running and consulting business is 304 00:24:32.529 --> 00:24:37.210 very different than running a software business. But turning your ideas, things that 305 00:24:37.289 --> 00:24:41.839 you would sell us a consulting engagement into a product, a workshop, a 306 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.440 training class, a subscription, a membership, a salon. Those are just 307 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:52.519 a few examples. Publishing Books, materials, subscription to private podcasts and videos. 308 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:53.430 I mean there's it goes on and on. I mean I could give 309 00:24:53.430 --> 00:24:56.750 you thirty things that you could you could do. Those are that's what I 310 00:24:56.829 --> 00:25:00.750 need. By product sizing. And Yeah, I mean I it's I've always 311 00:25:00.789 --> 00:25:04.950 had a vision for it and it's just getting the team aligned around it. 312 00:25:06.390 --> 00:25:10.500 And so one of the first things that we did was was align the compensation 313 00:25:10.660 --> 00:25:17.099 plants so that is focus more on value and customer repeat business versus ours, 314 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:22.730 because it gets people out of thinking about utilization and gets people thinking about how 315 00:25:22.769 --> 00:25:26.329 do I generate more value for the firm, for the customer? For me 316 00:25:26.049 --> 00:25:30.769 talk a little bit about your process for do you put one of your team 317 00:25:30.809 --> 00:25:34.569 members on lead, as like a project manager, to sort of sleep the 318 00:25:34.650 --> 00:25:40.200 agency for this? Do you come to your team with a concept, your 319 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:44.160 team members develop concepts and you sort of give them the laboratory to run with 320 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:49.029 them? How do you create the space for your team with these products? 321 00:25:49.630 --> 00:25:53.670 So what we're actually just in the process of overhauling it right now because it 322 00:25:55.950 --> 00:25:59.230 wasn't working as efficiently as a lot of us would have liked it to. 323 00:25:59.869 --> 00:26:03.150 We do have a solution development process and council and there's a number of items 324 00:26:03.150 --> 00:26:07.500 that we've recognized that need to be in a solution and so typically we've had 325 00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:11.779 people volunteer or managers of assigned those solutions to people and then they work with 326 00:26:11.819 --> 00:26:15.460 a cross sectional group of people and they talk to customers and they find out 327 00:26:15.460 --> 00:26:18.690 what's needed in the market and they they build a solution. Only launch it 328 00:26:19.009 --> 00:26:22.529 now. The reason why I say it's been an efficient one. That's been 329 00:26:22.569 --> 00:26:26.410 very time intensive to get to get to a minimal biable product and to do 330 00:26:26.690 --> 00:26:30.569 a lot of the approach which is too pricing or based a little bit more 331 00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.559 on on on fixed price, by value pricing around the fixed price, which 332 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.119 at least it's better than just doing it based on ours. So but we 333 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.559 were leaving a lot on the table. So we're in the process of overhauling 334 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.960 it right now. So I just presented to management team yesterday really just five 335 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:51.390 slides that they need to complete about what the business case is growing it seems, 336 00:26:51.710 --> 00:26:55.069 how they validate it, how they're going to take it to market and 337 00:26:55.549 --> 00:26:57.869 what's the pricing model look like? But it's got to be some type of 338 00:26:57.910 --> 00:27:02.819 recurring revenue value based model. Is really the print, the principle of it. 339 00:27:03.259 --> 00:27:07.259 And then it's really design for them to really build a cupcake, not 340 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:12.660 the cake, you know, just it's viable product, without boiling the ocean, 341 00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:15.450 because if it doesn't work, just because you have a great idea, 342 00:27:15.569 --> 00:27:18.009 it doesn't mean that customers are going to buy it. And even when you 343 00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:21.809 do research and the customer says yea'll buy it, but then we actually have 344 00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:23.329 the product and you sell it, they might not buy it. So, 345 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.890 before you get before you overcommit your resources, which are precious, there's you. 346 00:27:29.089 --> 00:27:33.200 You start off small. Yeah, well, I can experience. You're 347 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.519 a little bit here and that you know. We've we have created information products 348 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:47.910 and without doing what is using anecdotal customer feedback, and which was not enough, 349 00:27:47.910 --> 00:27:52.470 I can say, because what it meant was we ended up designing a 350 00:27:52.589 --> 00:27:57.069 terrific product, which the which the people who have per just really love, 351 00:27:57.390 --> 00:28:00.900 but it was too large. It was much too large a product for our 352 00:28:00.980 --> 00:28:07.460 first wing, and so that's an example of, I think, moving a 353 00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:11.700 little to moving without enough data, I would say, and also, you 354 00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:17.769 know, creating the cake instead of the cupcake. So I too, yeah, 355 00:28:17.890 --> 00:28:22.250 because you sure you want to talk to customers, but even your current 356 00:28:22.289 --> 00:28:26.359 customers don't always necessarily know what they don't know. R How do we know 357 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.839 that we needed the IPHONE? How do we need know that we need the 358 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.559 Amazon Echo? Like these things. Think they've changed our world with how we 359 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:38.079 interact and what we do. But if you would asked us before it came 360 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.109 out, would you do this? I don't know. Maybe I don't. 361 00:28:41.230 --> 00:28:45.390 You know like you don't. A lot of people can't see it until it's 362 00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:51.190 there, right, and so that's that's the risk reward part. You know, 363 00:28:51.309 --> 00:28:53.509 as an entrepreneur you have that vision for it. Sometimes you have to 364 00:28:53.549 --> 00:28:57.579 commit and just do it because you believe that you found a better way to 365 00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:02.180 change things. But I mean, if you look at the agency world, 366 00:29:02.180 --> 00:29:04.859 they do is already being disrupted. I mean if you look at services like 367 00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:11.849 up work or one of my personal favorite is logo tournament, which you know 368 00:29:11.890 --> 00:29:15.930 if you've if you've been an agency world you sell branding and logo design, 369 00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:19.450 or you've been a customer and you've bought it. It's a laborious process. 370 00:29:19.490 --> 00:29:26.400 I mean you're typically spending ten to thirty Gran log a tournament. You just 371 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.400 spend five hundred bucks and you get you get logos from around the world in 372 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.759 twenty four hours. And the amount of creativity that you're getting. And then 373 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.869 you go through a process and as you start ranking your logos, designers keep 374 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:41.470 adjusting and within a week you've got a perfect logo. You spend five hundred 375 00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:47.190 bucks plus you've got all these amazing creative ideas, and so up works the 376 00:29:47.230 --> 00:29:51.390 same way. I mean we're have we're using so many different contractor as ourselves 377 00:29:51.470 --> 00:29:53.339 now and I'll work to clean up power points. I mean you could spend 378 00:29:53.380 --> 00:29:57.339 seventy five hours and they'll turn your powerpoint presentation and make it look like a 379 00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:02.259 work of art and turn it around for you twenty four hours. Yeah, 380 00:30:03.019 --> 00:30:06.700 yeah, and so there's just examples like that where the world economy is rapidly 381 00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:11.569 changing. So if you don't see your or or not not realizing that your 382 00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:15.529 business is being disrupted, it is because so of all our clients businesses are 383 00:30:15.529 --> 00:30:21.250 being disrupted. That's why you have to adjust. And so it adjusting pricing 384 00:30:21.289 --> 00:30:23.680 miles, adjusting how you deliver, realizing that the way that your customers ce 385 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:27.119 value is not necessarily the same way that you would see value. And so 386 00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.960 that's why I'm saying you have to work on your business, not just in 387 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.559 your business, because the markets going to pass you by right. Well, 388 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:40.910 so true. And I you know, there's nothing like being there's nothing like 389 00:30:41.069 --> 00:30:45.470 an economic reality to force you to sort of look at what your other assets 390 00:30:45.509 --> 00:30:49.420 are that are under a leverage, you're underutilized, and I I you know. 391 00:30:49.539 --> 00:30:53.579 I think part of part of the change is going to be accelerated by 392 00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:59.380 not only we're going to have five or an upwork and all these other production 393 00:30:59.779 --> 00:31:04.609 resources out there, but the sort of the most time intensive, least profitable 394 00:31:04.769 --> 00:31:10.529 parts of the work that agencies do right now are going to be automated soon 395 00:31:11.009 --> 00:31:18.369 right as AI evolves, it'll be easier and easier to program machines to do 396 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:23.559 some of the writing, some of the basic underlying art that forms, you 397 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:29.160 know, campaign concept whatever. I'm on the Board of a company called Lately, 398 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:33.309 Uh Huh, try latelycom that's doing just that. That's it's an AI 399 00:31:33.470 --> 00:31:40.910 engine that's really disrupting content. I mean you aim this engine at your podcast, 400 00:31:41.029 --> 00:31:44.789 this podcast, for example, it's going to come back with five hundred 401 00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:51.180 content snippets and five seconds already promised for twitter, facebook, instagram, linkedin 402 00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:56.819 and allomatically schedule and send it out. So it and so not only do 403 00:31:56.859 --> 00:32:00.619 you just get the podcast, you've got an arsenal of marketing around the kind 404 00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:05.490 of the podcast into digestible content and all mediums that will reach all people. 405 00:32:05.809 --> 00:32:07.849 And to do that with any piece of contents at happening. And that's just 406 00:32:07.970 --> 00:32:10.970 one example. So there's lots of out there that are already doing that. 407 00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:15.250 But we even am our clients that have used this for years and we go 408 00:32:15.410 --> 00:32:17.519 great templates as part of one of the many things that we do. But 409 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.039 probably, like most consultants or agencies, were charging, you know, several 410 00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.319 thousand hours to build an email template, l any page template. So are 411 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:28.599 our clients just said Hey, yeah, I guess someone in Singapore's can do 412 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.670 it for hundred fifty bucks. So all right. Yeah, and and people 413 00:32:31.869 --> 00:32:36.069 your first reaction as Oh, it's India, Singapore, Hey, these people 414 00:32:36.150 --> 00:32:40.190 are smart, they have MBA's, they speak perfect English at their brilliant you 415 00:32:40.269 --> 00:32:44.619 know, Osta, Rica, Singapore, India, there, there, they. 416 00:32:44.779 --> 00:32:46.299 You're come here for education or the getting well educated. But you know, 417 00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:51.339 seventy five hours in one of these countries is like seven hundred fifty hours 418 00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:53.420 here. Yeah, you know, it just go for the but that's just 419 00:32:53.500 --> 00:32:59.809 simper perfect example every day disruption. It's as free as it is frightening. 420 00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:01.930 I mean, if you, if you, if you can take the long 421 00:33:01.970 --> 00:33:06.930 view of it, it's it's extremely free for agencies, I think, because 422 00:33:06.930 --> 00:33:09.049 it it's going to free them up to do what they do best, which 423 00:33:09.210 --> 00:33:15.880 is the thinking and the strategic level work that that their clients really need from 424 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.160 them. Well, you hope, I mean, but I think also we're 425 00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.359 too they're get because a lot of these owners they started the firm because they 426 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.029 loved the work that love the create process, the consultating process, the legal 427 00:33:28.069 --> 00:33:31.549 processing, counting process. But that is only part of the job when you're 428 00:33:31.549 --> 00:33:37.349 the CEO of the partner. Absolutely yeah, that's your job is to build 429 00:33:37.349 --> 00:33:43.420 the business, which for many professionals it's uncomfortable. Right, you're a doctor, 430 00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:45.980 but you don't know how to run a medical practice. You just want 431 00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:47.500 to practice medicine. You're a lawyer, you want to practice law. You 432 00:33:47.539 --> 00:33:52.940 don't want to like run the off firm. Right, you know your you're 433 00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:57.369 a creative person. You just want to design in her immersive, interactive experiences. 434 00:33:57.410 --> 00:34:00.329 But you don't want to run the agency, and some of US have 435 00:34:00.490 --> 00:34:02.769 to choose, right, at some point. You, some of US do. 436 00:34:04.210 --> 00:34:07.450 Yeah, but if you're going to if you are the CEO or the 437 00:34:07.569 --> 00:34:10.880 managing partner or the general manager or whatever your title list, that is your 438 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:15.400 job. You know, that's that's here to your job is to is to 439 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:17.920 figure it out. But then you've got to get all your other principles and 440 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:22.639 leaders aligned, because otherwise it's going to use just going to go down the 441 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.949 same death trap. You're going to just keep building and building billing and there's 442 00:34:27.989 --> 00:34:30.389 a war in talent out there, right. I mean we're not imman to 443 00:34:30.469 --> 00:34:37.349 that. As as the unemployment rates dip and many people that come into consulting 444 00:34:37.469 --> 00:34:40.099 agencies, maybe they want to go to a competitor, or many for just 445 00:34:40.219 --> 00:34:43.780 prefer to go back to a direct model, because people are paying for it 446 00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:46.699 because they want the talent. Yeah, well, right. and well, 447 00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:53.010 they're also being competed for by the very technology companies that are disrupting the agency 448 00:34:53.050 --> 00:34:57.369 world to oh yeah, it's a sales for so, I mean, oh 449 00:34:57.409 --> 00:35:00.690 my God, they're just completely resetting the market there. They're creating fits for 450 00:35:02.329 --> 00:35:07.519 many of us because they're paying such high rates for positions. It's making it 451 00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:12.559 extremely difficult to to find the right talent and then still get our customers to 452 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.800 pay or meaningful rate for people. It's it's just the markets changing rapidly. 453 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:21.630 Yeah, it is the number or one that in business development are the number 454 00:35:21.670 --> 00:35:25.309 one and number two pain points for every single agency owner who we work with 455 00:35:25.630 --> 00:35:30.949 at the firm. So it's and what what I love about this conversation is 456 00:35:31.269 --> 00:35:37.739 this is a path thinking about alternate revenue models, using your ip to either 457 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:45.380 create products create some other forms of passive revenue. Is is not an easy 458 00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:49.619 ticket, but it is a ticket away on to another path, away from 459 00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:54.889 the model that is just rapidly sort of dissolving for lots of reasons. But 460 00:35:55.889 --> 00:36:02.489 I wanted to ask you so other than creating. So we've talked about productization 461 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:08.039 and we've talked about subscriptions, which are sort of just a different way of 462 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:13.360 paying for productization. In a way, I guess you can be more fluid 463 00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:17.079 or add value more frequently when it's a subscription model. What other sorts of 464 00:36:17.750 --> 00:36:23.510 value based revenue strategies are you considering, or do you think other agencies should 465 00:36:23.550 --> 00:36:30.750 consider. There's a number of them. So workshops or salons. So a 466 00:36:30.829 --> 00:36:35.860 Salans when you do like a virtual meeting. So let's say you're tax account 467 00:36:36.099 --> 00:36:40.099 and you you you want and right now you provide your advice to clients one 468 00:36:40.179 --> 00:36:44.980 on one. Why can't you host a weekly meeting Tuesday's at four o'clock? 469 00:36:45.500 --> 00:36:47.809 Or you're going to speak to to ten people and give them updatedvice on tax 470 00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:52.570 strategies and business strategies and they can ask you questions. So you can charge 471 00:36:52.650 --> 00:36:58.449 one hundred dollars per salon session and they sign up for a year or quarter. 472 00:36:59.170 --> 00:37:01.920 All yet to ten people online, you're getting a thousand dollars an hour 473 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:07.760 right for versus just the whatever, you would have gotten two hundred there undred 474 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.199 dollars an hour or for just that one client, and you can play around 475 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:13.360 with the pricing. So that would be one example. You're doing a workshop 476 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.269 where you go on site and you you are getting people to work together at 477 00:37:17.309 --> 00:37:21.070 the client and then you're getting a share of the outcome, typically for a 478 00:37:21.110 --> 00:37:27.510 couple days. You can get twenty Fivezeros speaking, you know, for an 479 00:37:27.550 --> 00:37:30.699 engage winner association or at an event. You can charge money that way. 480 00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:36.980 Doing performance driven, outcome driven types of engagements. Right. So you negotiate 481 00:37:37.099 --> 00:37:40.579 with your client that if you help them achieve a measurable business outcome, that 482 00:37:40.780 --> 00:37:44.329 you get to share in the upside, as long as you're on the share 483 00:37:44.369 --> 00:37:50.050 in the downside. That would be another example tearing strategies where you're bundling things 484 00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:55.969 together that the client feels like they're getting extra value. So you take things 485 00:37:57.090 --> 00:38:00.800 that you might not even think are available as options, but they are. 486 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:05.920 You're billing terms, your discounts, your level of service. Right. So 487 00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:10.239 what if you create three tiers of service? Your first here you're going to 488 00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:17.269 have a two day SLA you. Your terms would be that thirty no discount 489 00:38:19.030 --> 00:38:22.429 and a subscription to your annual news letter. Right. The next year you 490 00:38:22.550 --> 00:38:25.389 could say, Oh, you know, I'm going to give you a one 491 00:38:25.389 --> 00:38:29.579 day turnaround time. I mean to give you a five percent discount, right, 492 00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:31.579 and I'm going to give you two passes to my annual conference. I. 493 00:38:32.019 --> 00:38:38.139 So just different ways of using there's all sorts of dials, guarantees, 494 00:38:38.739 --> 00:38:43.369 you know, verse, you know Onconditional Guarantees, service and warranty periods, 495 00:38:43.889 --> 00:38:47.530 response times, dedicated success managers or account managers. These are all things that 496 00:38:47.610 --> 00:38:52.809 add value to the customer that they would be willing to pay for. That 497 00:38:52.050 --> 00:38:57.239 are parts of how you deliver your service, but you haven't really thought about 498 00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:00.880 how to unbundle them and repackage them together. So it's a thing I you 499 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.400 to what you're doing. So those would just be some of these samples of 500 00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:07.400 how you approach it and there are many more. Yeah, that's an awesome 501 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:15.110 list, even though it's probably more challenging as an agency owner, I think, 502 00:39:15.349 --> 00:39:20.670 to get your internal house and order in terms of creating the environment for 503 00:39:20.869 --> 00:39:25.460 creation of some of these other models and the time to develop the products. 504 00:39:25.539 --> 00:39:31.699 If productization is one of your strategies. You do have to be more value 505 00:39:31.780 --> 00:39:39.050 focused in your conversations with your perspective clients when you're selling these services. So 506 00:39:39.809 --> 00:39:44.489 how did you make the turn or get your team to start to make the 507 00:39:44.610 --> 00:39:49.090 term just in the language that they used or the way, you know, 508 00:39:49.650 --> 00:39:52.119 the value speak, if you will, when they're selling these services? Because 509 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:59.800 it's we're still in the process of dealing it and it's we got a lot 510 00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.480 of amazing people that are very good at their job, but they're good their 511 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:07.429 job they're thinking about what they do they're it's getting them to think a little 512 00:40:07.429 --> 00:40:09.750 bit differently. So the typical conversation would be like, okay, Mary, 513 00:40:10.349 --> 00:40:14.030 what did you do for the customer last week? We had a great week, 514 00:40:14.349 --> 00:40:15.909 you know. We built three email templates, we put in a new 515 00:40:15.909 --> 00:40:22.340 scoring program and I trained for people on how to use this platform. Okay, 516 00:40:22.619 --> 00:40:24.980 so Mary, that's awesome. Those were things like what did the customer 517 00:40:25.059 --> 00:40:28.260 get? Just, like, what do you mean? Well, what value 518 00:40:28.300 --> 00:40:31.940 did the customer get from that? So and then you have to really take 519 00:40:32.139 --> 00:40:37.329 Mary through, like so those templates. What was the conversion rate of the 520 00:40:37.369 --> 00:40:39.289 email before you build the template? Did the open rates go up? To 521 00:40:39.369 --> 00:40:43.610 the click through rates go up? Did they get more leads? Are they 522 00:40:43.690 --> 00:40:46.170 going to see a productivity increase because we trained their team? Do we drive 523 00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:51.159 up utilization of the platform? Are we making the money saving their money? 524 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.079 Did we reduce the campaign cycle time? Do we shorten the sale cycle? 525 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.199 Getting them to think about those things every single time. So the way that 526 00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:02.920 we're doing it is literally, each week we need as teams and I rotate 527 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.349 around through the teams and we are going through and we're we're talking about these 528 00:41:07.469 --> 00:41:10.829 and we're documenting them and getting them to think about it differently. We have 529 00:41:10.909 --> 00:41:15.230 a person that works in value engineering. Now, we created a department called 530 00:41:15.269 --> 00:41:19.380 value engineering and this person's job is to do nothing but work with all of 531 00:41:19.420 --> 00:41:22.780 our teams, to work with the customers to unlock the value and business. 532 00:41:22.820 --> 00:41:27.780 How come that we're driving and so we're still in the middle of it and 533 00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:31.019 we're making that shift and we were having some success. But yeah, it's 534 00:41:31.059 --> 00:41:37.650 taken a while. Yeah, it's not always E it's it's a lot easier 535 00:41:37.769 --> 00:41:42.130 for myself and some of the salespeople to do it, because the salespeople you're 536 00:41:42.130 --> 00:41:45.409 kind of wired to think that way anyway, just in terms of driving to 537 00:41:45.889 --> 00:41:49.559 the customer. But it's been where they're on the delivery side. All right. 538 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:55.920 Well, I'm asking the question because it's you're really training your team and, 539 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:02.829 in many cases the perspective client or the existing client at the same time 540 00:42:04.110 --> 00:42:07.909 because, as you pointed out earlier, a lot of times clients are used 541 00:42:07.949 --> 00:42:13.989 to buying the old way right there. They're not well versed in buying a 542 00:42:14.110 --> 00:42:20.820 consultative service or, you know, using a value price, a value priced 543 00:42:20.860 --> 00:42:25.300 model, or they're not used to consuming the expertise in the form of a 544 00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:29.699 product or something like that. And so you're training your team, on the 545 00:42:29.860 --> 00:42:34.449 one hand, to value engineer and to some extent, probably your sales team, 546 00:42:34.769 --> 00:42:39.250 and to speak value. But in some cases you're talking to a client 547 00:42:39.329 --> 00:42:43.690 who might not understand right and that's why you have to also know how they 548 00:42:43.690 --> 00:42:45.719 ask two questions, because otherwise you're going to be stuck in commodity world. 549 00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:49.679 Yeah, you talked to your client and say hi, you know. So 550 00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.440 what do you need? Watch, come talk to me. Why? Need 551 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:57.199 an assessment of my system? Okay, Right, Oh, well, quote 552 00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.710 for that is, you know, tenzero. Okay, but if you just 553 00:43:00.829 --> 00:43:04.389 did it that way. But why do you need an assessment? Well, 554 00:43:04.469 --> 00:43:07.469 I'm not sure if my system is working the best way. Okay, so 555 00:43:07.710 --> 00:43:10.789 what what do you mean? I wanted to work better. Why? Why 556 00:43:10.829 --> 00:43:15.059 do you want your work to the system work better? Well, because I 557 00:43:15.059 --> 00:43:17.380 don't. I don't think we're getting full value from our investment. Well, 558 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:21.860 how much do they do invest in it? A hundred thousand dollars. What 559 00:43:21.980 --> 00:43:24.980 value do you think you're getting from that investment? Now, not that much. 560 00:43:25.699 --> 00:43:29.130 What do you want to get? Whether you think is considered to be 561 00:43:29.170 --> 00:43:32.369 a good way to return x x, ten x. We should be getting 562 00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:36.250 a five x return on it. Okay, so you want to get a 563 00:43:36.289 --> 00:43:39.090 five hundred thousand dollars at value from the hundred thousand dollars. How would you 564 00:43:39.130 --> 00:43:43.400 measure that? I don't know, I haven't thought about it. Okay, 565 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:46.280 well, if you hire us and we do this assessment, we fix it 566 00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:50.679 for you. When you get a good outcome, how will you measure this? 567 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:53.039 That whatever I charge you against that five hundred thousand? How will you 568 00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:55.949 know you've got in the five hundred thousand? And then sometimes you have to 569 00:43:57.030 --> 00:43:59.429 help them further. Sometimes they can come up the answer and some then I 570 00:43:59.630 --> 00:44:04.389 okay. Do you think that once the system is optimized, that you'll be 571 00:44:04.429 --> 00:44:07.829 able to get more leads? Will you be able to increase revenue? You 572 00:44:07.909 --> 00:44:10.539 be to increase marketings attribution? We be able to save some time? Do 573 00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:15.940 you have to actually walk them through that, because ultimately that's the business case 574 00:44:16.059 --> 00:44:21.260 and then gets presented to the company. So then, if you do all 575 00:44:21.380 --> 00:44:23.059 that, and again this is where you have to be patient, because you're 576 00:44:23.329 --> 00:44:28.369 you know, sales people always want to close deal. I say we are 577 00:44:28.409 --> 00:44:30.210 alive, unred and ten grand. Let's get them in order form. But 578 00:44:30.409 --> 00:44:36.610 if you won't do a couple more calls. You might actually get Fiftyzero to 579 00:44:36.690 --> 00:44:39.039 do the assessment because you're able to show the client you're going to generate a 580 00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:44.840 x rater turn and it. The task itself might be exactly the same as 581 00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:47.679 the tenzero and some people might say, well, that's ridiculous, that's your 582 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:52.440 really screwing the customer over. Like the assessment's only price to tenzero dollars. 583 00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:55.469 Now the price is arbitrary, like it's what the customers will in the pay. 584 00:44:55.989 --> 00:44:59.750 The customer feel are getting good value from the FIFTYZERO. They're not. 585 00:44:59.829 --> 00:45:02.550 You're not ripping them off. You're helping them because you're helping them get to 586 00:45:02.590 --> 00:45:07.019 that five Hundredero. Otherwise you're just filling out a report card on the assessment. 587 00:45:07.019 --> 00:45:10.699 Then you're rights probably not even worth Tenero s worth five right. Then 588 00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:15.300 you get the other argument. But they only did the assessment in ten hours. 589 00:45:15.019 --> 00:45:16.980 The pricing sheet is supposed to be thirty. What do I do? 590 00:45:17.380 --> 00:45:22.409 Get close it out? Customers have that right. Yeah, I do with 591 00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:25.929 the other twenty hours, like you do nothing with the other twenty. Well, 592 00:45:25.929 --> 00:45:29.409 I feel I feel like I have to give the customer the other twenty 593 00:45:29.449 --> 00:45:30.690 hour, like what? But they're not paying you for the thirty hours or 594 00:45:30.690 --> 00:45:36.119 paying you for the outcome of the assessment. And that's that's that. That's 595 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.400 the battle every day. It is. It is well and it's you know, 596 00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:43.199 and in some every once in a while you've got the client who comes 597 00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:47.599 to you, and this is certainly been our experience in the legal service world. 598 00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:51.550 Is Well, you know, I'm happy to pay you for your time, 599 00:45:51.789 --> 00:45:54.389 and my response to the that a is always I don't know if you 600 00:45:54.510 --> 00:45:59.349 are, you really are happy to pay a start time, because I don't 601 00:45:59.389 --> 00:46:00.949 think it's going to be what you think it is. Right. Well, 602 00:46:00.989 --> 00:46:05.860 yeah, you can. You can't afford by time. Yeah, exactly. 603 00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:08.619 You know, it's respectful. What to say it? Yeah, it is. 604 00:46:08.739 --> 00:46:13.340 And how much? is an hour of your time worth? A MILLION 605 00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:17.650 DOLLAR? Yeah, yeah, well, and in some cases that's absolutely factual. 606 00:46:17.929 --> 00:46:23.449 I mean, it's value is it's a construct that is determined based on 607 00:46:24.010 --> 00:46:29.730 circumstances which change. That's that's the beauty of a market based economy. And 608 00:46:29.849 --> 00:46:36.519 so I am I really think that this conversation is going to be helpful to 609 00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:43.079 a lot of agency owners, because I've I it always makes me breaks my 610 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:47.190 our just a little bit as someone who is passionate about protecting Ip, and 611 00:46:47.389 --> 00:46:52.510 you and I can have a whole other our conversation about Ip strategy, but 612 00:46:52.110 --> 00:47:00.750 I'm passionate about protecting it because I know that it's it's leverageable for revenue, 613 00:47:00.070 --> 00:47:07.139 whether it's actual revenue in the door, whether it is creating an agency that's 614 00:47:07.139 --> 00:47:09.460 going to be more sellable down the line. There's just there's a whole list 615 00:47:09.539 --> 00:47:14.539 of reasons why it matters to focus on it, and so when I get 616 00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:19.369 the opportunity to talk to an agency owner who is actually walking that talk it, 617 00:47:19.929 --> 00:47:22.889 it makes my heart very happy. So I want to thank you for 618 00:47:23.210 --> 00:47:27.809 the chance to talk this through today because I think we've given agency owners of 619 00:47:27.889 --> 00:47:31.719 practical things to think about, you know, taking an assessment or an inventory 620 00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:37.960 of of the assets that they have and how to use them to maybe shift 621 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:42.599 their thinking about their own business models as agency owners. Yeah, absolutely, 622 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:45.710 it's been my pleasure sharing to thank you. I know I really I've really 623 00:47:45.750 --> 00:47:49.389 enjoyed the conversation and I think we're going to help some agency owners in the 624 00:47:49.510 --> 00:47:52.389 process. So, Jeff Padowitz, thank you so much for joining me today 625 00:47:52.550 --> 00:48:00.699 and I want to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to find your body 626 00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:04.739 of work or otherwise connect with you if they'd like to. So what are 627 00:48:04.780 --> 00:48:09.500 the best places for them to find out more about patawoods group or website? 628 00:48:09.619 --> 00:48:16.849 It's patherwits GROUPCOM. My email is Jeff jff at Padowitz Groupcom and so you 629 00:48:16.929 --> 00:48:21.530 can find us there. And then we're also on Linkedin and twitter as well 630 00:48:21.969 --> 00:48:27.050 facebook and instagram and Youtube, and not tick Tock, not yet, but 631 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:30.000 Sam probably all those other places. Well, Jeff Patterwitz, thank you so 632 00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:34.760 much for taking time to are your expertise on the anovative agency. I really 633 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.840 appreciate it's been great talking to you. You Bad. Thanks, Aaron. 634 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:44.510 We really hope you enjoyed this episode in the Hashtag Agency series from the innovative 635 00:48:44.510 --> 00:48:49.309 agency. To hear more episodes along these lines, check out the innovative agency 636 00:48:49.469 --> 00:48:52.949 in Apple podcasts, your favorite podcast player or the links right in the show 637 00:48:52.989 --> 00:48:57.380 notes for this episode. As always, thank you so much for listening. 638 00:48:57.460 --> 00:49:05.300 Are you on Linkedin? That's a stupid question. Of course you're on Linkedin. 639 00:49:05.619 --> 00:49:08.219 Here's so we fish. We've gone all in on the platform. Multiple 640 00:49:08.260 --> 00:49:13.050 people from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for 641 00:49:13.130 --> 00:49:16.130 me, other times it's a micro video or a slide deck, and sometimes 642 00:49:16.170 --> 00:49:21.329 it's just a regular old status update that shares their unique point of view on 643 00:49:21.489 --> 00:49:25.840 BB marketing leadership or their job function. We're posting this content through their personal 644 00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:30.360 profile, not our company page, and it would warm my heart and soul 645 00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:35.639 if you connected with each of our evangelists. will be adding more down the 646 00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:38.349 road, but for now you should connect with bill read, our COO, 647 00:49:38.829 --> 00:49:44.590 Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director, Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth, 648 00:49:45.030 --> 00:49:47.909 Logan Lyles are director of partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We 649 00:49:47.989 --> 00:49:52.670 are having a whole lot of fun on Linkedin pretty much every single day and 650 00:49:52.829 --> 00:49:52.980 we'd love for you to be a part of it.