Marketing Job Post Red Flags with Mary Keough

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.600 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B tob growth. Today 2 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:22.800 I am joined by Mary Kio. She's the senior marketing strategist at gorilla seventy 3 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.480 six and we're so glad to have her here with us. Mary, welcome 4 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:28.960 to the show. Thanks, Fenji. I am stoked to be here. 5 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:34.679 Yes, today we're going to tackle the topic of marketing job postings and how 6 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:39.240 to spot red flags. Before we get there, maybe just give us the 7 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:43.079 the thirty two bio on you, Mary, and a couple of important things 8 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:46.840 we should know about you. Yeah, that sounds great. So I started 9 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:53.960 my career in house at a manufacturing and Industrial Company that manufactures and sells spray 10 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:59.159 nozzles and spray equipment. I was a technical writer first, and then at 11 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:03.640 that company I moved into like a makeshift business development role, a marketing role 12 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:11.079 for the Rd team, and then moved into corporate marketing. Since September of 13 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:14.640 last year, though, I've been on the agency side with grilla seventy six, 14 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:19.480 also working with midsize be tob manufacturing and industrial companies, and that's kind 15 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:23.560 of the boring career stuff. So if I'm not working, which is most 16 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.400 of the other time I'm hanging out with my three kids, playing and doing 17 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:34.200 adventures outside and then drinking wine are moving heavy stuff in my garage. Jim, 18 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:40.200 that is a great rundown on your life. Yeah, I ask people 19 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:44.439 with kids all the time what's your hobby, and then I've gotten so many 20 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:47.680 like well, my kids are my hobby. Nos, yeah, right, 21 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:53.840 like ver come all encompassing. Well, today I want to talk about something 22 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.719 I saw in your linkedin. I think it's probably what you've become maybe most 23 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:04.480 notorious or famous for over there, right, these marketing job post teardowns. 24 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.199 What gave you this idea originally? Explain why this became so important to you. 25 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:12.800 Yeah, so I'm going to start with like what they are first, 26 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:16.759 in case you aren't familiar with the marketing job post teardowns, it's a series 27 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:23.479 I do every Thursday on my linkedin page where I just find a job posting 28 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:28.000 that was actually posted on Linkedin and just tear it down bullet point by bullet 29 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.439 point. So it's almost always a marketing job and the point is really to 30 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:38.840 help marketers weed through this barrage of job postings out there and find a company 31 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:42.840 who actually knows what they need from marketing. And then, of course, 32 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:47.439 the second point is just to have fun and emphasize some of the ridiculous expectations 33 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:53.719 some companies have for their marketing departments. But this idea actually came from a 34 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:59.439 from a podcast I did with girls founder Joe Sullivan, and we were going 35 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:04.560 to discuss us like agency versus and House Marketing. How can a company know 36 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:09.080 when they need a marketing team member rather than an agency? And so then 37 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:15.520 that podcast episode just spawned this potential service branch for us where we could help 38 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:21.080 manufacturers kind of fill a marketing job or build a marketing team and house, 39 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:24.639 and especially with the support of a full service agency, which is kind of 40 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:28.840 cool. Yeah, it is cool. We thought it'd be fun to give 41 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:34.520 our listeners, like in this episode, for Marketing Job posts, red flags 42 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:37.919 what to be looking for. Now that you've done this several times, I 43 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:42.319 see a couple applications of the content. One is like, if you're hiring 44 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:46.560 for your company, this is going to help you refine job posts and really 45 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.840 hone your skill as someone posting. And then second, so many of us 46 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.520 are going to be looking for new positions and Mary's helping us see through the 47 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:59.159 smoke screens and find the jobs that are actually refined, well positioned and are 48 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:00.560 going to get us off on the right foot and in the right position. 49 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.680 So, after doing several of these posts, looking at a bunch of marketing 50 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:11.199 job postings, let's get into this. What's our first Red Flag, Mary? 51 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:15.879 Yeah, so your first red flag is going to be if the job 52 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:21.759 posting is for anything less than a senior vice president of marketing or ACMO. 53 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:29.000 You are not going to want to see more than five bullet points under either 54 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:34.000 the responsibity section or the requirements section. What do you think about that? 55 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:40.639 Bunjy? I wish this was just true in general because it would have so 56 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:45.160 much clarity packed into it. But my question for you is, okay, 57 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.480 five, like five seams. I don't look at posts maybe as much as 58 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:53.639 you do, but five seems like there aren't many companies hitting that number. 59 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.079 That is a good amount of clarity. What made you think five is the 60 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:01.319 right number? Yeah, so I've been reading through a lot of these marketing 61 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:08.680 job posts to do this series and it seems that the more bullet points there 62 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:14.079 are, as you get further down the list, the more convoluted those bullet 63 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:20.399 points become so the maybe first five are very clear. They might be a 64 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:25.680 little bit too packed for my preference. But then as you add more and 65 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.639 more, they're kind of either repeating what they already said in the first five 66 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:34.759 bullet points or the ladder bullet points are just adding in these really random things 67 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:40.680 that like I would kind of assume someone in this position would do anyways. 68 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:46.480 Right, Yep, that the end is always telling. Either they're trying to 69 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:50.040 like bring things in that they're like, well, it's not really your role, 70 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:55.120 but like maybe we could fit it in there, or there's always something 71 00:05:55.160 --> 00:06:00.600 in that last piece that's a giveaway area. Is that they're yelling like flug 72 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.800 holes. Yeah, absolutely. Like I've seen responsibilities where, hey, it's 73 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:09.360 like it starts out great, like you're going to be responsible for generating new 74 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:15.000 indown pipeline via these three channels. You're going to be tracking it through our 75 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:16.879 crm. Like I'm like in my head like yeah, cool, yes, 76 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:20.519 makes sense, perfect, and then like it gets farther down the listen, 77 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:26.360 it's like your responsibilities will be like utilize hub spot, like that's a whole 78 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:29.439 bullet point. Like okay, I kind of assumed I'd be using some kind 79 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:32.560 of more tech tool. anyways, if I'm using a crm, so like 80 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:36.319 as just like yes, if you're writing these, just like mix those out, 81 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:40.879 like we get it. We're going to be using MARTECH. HMM. 82 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.240 So within this, one thing you had mentioned offline was this idea of like 83 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.879 expecting too much from this role. Right, ultimately, it's like we start 84 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:54.879 thinking. Or there you can tell they want you to plan, develop, 85 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:59.040 execute, analyze. That's the language that we were using before. Yeah, 86 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:02.360 is there ways to tell, like outside of just the five, that they're 87 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:08.160 really expecting all four of these? Because that's honestly what you're getting at some 88 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.240 some may not hit the exact five, but if they're asking you to do 89 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:15.519 all of that, you could spot that red flag pretty easy. Oh Yeah, 90 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.000 for sure. So I call this the triple threat. They're almost always 91 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:24.120 done in trios. So it's like plan, develop, execute, analyze, 92 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:29.240 coordinate, plan, plan, develop and assess. The you'll notice that they're 93 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:34.959 using these three verbs in quick succession and that's my biggest red flag. Like, 94 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.519 and it's usually like this. And then they do this very general term 95 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:45.199 so that it'll be like plan, execute, analyze a digital marketing strategy, 96 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.240 like what so my in charge of the website. Am I doing blogs? 97 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:55.319 Am I doing seo? Am I doing paid social? Like the digital sphere 98 00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:00.439 is gigantic right now and that bullet point in and of itself, like plan 99 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:05.759 develop execute a digital marketing strategy, is so common, and I would see 100 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.759 that as somebody who has a decent amount of experience in marketing at this point, 101 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.079 and that's a huge red flag. I'd be like, they have no 102 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:18.079 idea what they need from marketing. Yeah, you would want or I would 103 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:20.040 want like channel specific. Tell me which one, because you can get an 104 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:28.319 expert on a bunch of different mediums within like social, within online strategy. 105 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.840 With like get people that are hyper specific. So why not just include that 106 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:35.840 from the outset? Decide what you're medium supposed to be? Or you want 107 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.360 to go heavy on two linkedin whatever your channels going to be, tell that 108 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:45.360 and you're going to attract talent that is really in that lane, and that's 109 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.799 a really great as the one also applying to know, am I actually an 110 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.480 expert in what they want an expert in, unless you really do want a 111 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:54.120 generalist in all things, which then you're not going to get. Probably the 112 00:08:54.480 --> 00:09:00.519 experienced marketer in that job. Yeah, absolutely, and like the thing that 113 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:05.559 I love doing with those is like, okay, so you want a marketing 114 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.120 strategist, a content marketer and SEO specialist, a social media specialist. Like, 115 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:13.399 if you really break these things down into what they're asking for, they're 116 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:18.799 asking for like five to seven specialties in a single bullet point. So, 117 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.320 yeah, Yep, to your point, expecting way too much from one roll 118 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.720 or even just a single bullet point. And my biggest point with the five 119 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.519 is if you need more than five bullet points to tell somebody what their job 120 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.399 is going to be, you probably need more than one marker. Yeah, 121 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.200 you got to figure out your priorities of just what you want to hire four 122 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.080 first. Then you can go from there and make it concise. Okay, 123 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.399 so that's a great way to start this off. More than five bullet points 124 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.279 is a Nogo. Is a red flag. What's the second one? All 125 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:58.440 right, so our second big red flag is salary to experience level. This 126 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:07.279 is by far the most common red flag and the most common misconception I see. 127 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:13.639 So we have a marketing specialist, a marketing generalist, a marketing manager 128 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:18.840 who's expected to do these fifteen bullet points and they're expected to have three to 129 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:26.200 five years of marketing experience under their belt, and then the salary is like 130 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:35.519 k like no, at a minimum anyone, especially a marketer, who has 131 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.559 three hundred and twenty five experience. And it's usually like, I love when 132 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:43.480 they put three to five years of proven experience or proven track record of of 133 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.879 results. And anybody with three to five years of proven track record of results 134 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.480 is making six figures, I guarantee you. So like it, just like 135 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:58.600 the salary to experience ranges. That's probably the most laughable to me. HMM. 136 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:03.919 It's so interesting too, because then you'll see, let's say your entry 137 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.840 level, entry level can sometimes also be and like my wife's going through this 138 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.799 right now, not in marketing but more on the UXUI side, where she's 139 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:15.879 seeing like she's entry level, but then they say three to five years experience 140 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.960 needed, and I just like, I s laughable. It's see how that's 141 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.960 not entry level. So how can you post that in in your job posting? 142 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.279 I think this one is so true on the other side too. If 143 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:31.840 you have a proven track record and you're looking this over going, there's not 144 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.840 a chance I'm going to come in and low ball myself in and like who 145 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:41.279 is, I guess, like my myself and in the perspective of the company, 146 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:46.080 and for sure like trying. It's so aspirational. You're like, I 147 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:50.480 want to find the perfect marketer for the littlest amount of money possible, and 148 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.080 that's a red flag to me that the company doesn't want to come in higher 149 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.399 and just give from the beginning. Like what you you know what you're worth. 150 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:03.320 How do you go about like having those negotiation conversations, because sometimes you'll 151 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.279 find a company you're really interested in right, but maybe the salary isn't what 152 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.559 you want and you'd rather have a conversation than just go okay, red flag. 153 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:13.480 I'm moving on completely. Maybe they're not off as much as like that. 154 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.960 Sixty five grand is their offer. Yeah, for sure. I think 155 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.559 that if it's a company really want, definitely go in and honestly, maybe 156 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.799 you could either just attach it with your resume. If they're asking for a 157 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.080 ridiculous amount of information, like a cover letter and all that stuff, like 158 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:33.600 just send them your resume and say hey, is a salary negotiable? Because 159 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:37.000 it's a little bit too low for me. But I think my experience and 160 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.000 my track record of success is a good fit for this job. I think 161 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.440 any hiring manager worth their salt is going to have that kind of conversation with 162 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.000 you. But I would like to touch on what you said, like putting 163 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.759 you yourself in the mindset of these companies. Like I've done that before too, 164 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:56.960 and I can picture the argument they're having because when I was in house 165 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.360 at the manufacturing company, I was on a hiring committee for like for admin 166 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.240 rolls or like entry level rolls, and I get what they're doing. With 167 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:11.840 the experience, like the years of experience, they're kind of disincentivizing anyone with 168 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.080 not enough experience, and I get that. I understand they want somebody who's 169 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:22.200 been in an office roll before or like had a job like I understand that. 170 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:28.960 But you're also for sure driving away the best marketers and even the marketers 171 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.000 who actually have the this level of experience. So, like I said, 172 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:35.720 I fit that bill and I'd read that and just laugh and move on. 173 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:41.399 What's the better way that they could word it? Like what if you were 174 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:46.600 writing it taking into consideration where they're coming from? Any tips there or the 175 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:50.320 way that you would do it now? Yeah, absolutely, I think it'll 176 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.679 vary on the company this is how I approached it with my leader, who 177 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.679 wanted, you know, I think three to five years is just etched and 178 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:01.720 so many people's mind that it's almost just a like one of those giveaways, 179 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:07.000 right, but I think it's also worth stepping back and asking why. So 180 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.639 why do you feel like we need three to five years of experience? And 181 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:13.320 the answer might be different for every company. So in the case of my 182 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.000 former leader, it was I just want someone who's had experience in an office 183 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.279 before, which totally understand. So we doesn't want someone who's just graduated college 184 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:28.840 or, you know, maybe this is their first job after waitressing or something 185 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:31.720 like that. Right, so I understand that. So say that I just 186 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:37.320 want someone with six months of office experience. You know, take out the 187 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:41.000 three to five years and like make it realistic and ask yourself why you're asking 188 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:48.879 for this. Yep, that the clear and concise nature is actually embedded in 189 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.919 both of these. It goes back to really what we're driving at with the 190 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.440 first one, and it's funny because we're about to talk the third one is 191 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:01.679 like big, warm buttery statements, and it fits in this same category to 192 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:07.159 because ultimately what it is is it's language. Being used in ways where we're 193 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.519 not really clear, and if we could just get hyper clear, we could 194 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.799 probably make it five bullet points. We could definitely say exactly what we need. 195 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:16.600 But it's going to take a little bit more time to gain that clarity 196 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.200 and that would change your language for salary to experience level, instead of copying 197 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.879 and pasting what you see so often posted another job postings and just saying, 198 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:28.200 all right, we'll just do the same thing and and then, like hoping 199 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.559 for the results, get the third one, big warm buttery statements. Give 200 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.399 me an example of how you see this play out. What do you see 201 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.720 people getting wrong when it comes to the this statements they use? Yeah, 202 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:43.720 so I call this the butter alert. This is whenever I post these. 203 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:46.240 This is like I put it with like the big, you know, traffic 204 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:50.399 signal. Hey, butter alert right here. These are never a good thing. 205 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:56.120 It almost always means a low respect job with crappy pay. If you 206 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:58.279 want to challenge my assumptions there, please do, and if it's wrong, 207 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.360 then send me a DM because I would love to hear about it. So 208 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:06.600 I'll give you an example of what this means. So I tore down a 209 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:11.960 job posting recently for an e business marketing manager, and the butter statement for 210 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:18.480 this one was this is where our e business professionals come into their own. 211 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:26.279 They are industry experts on emerging technology. So big red flag here is like 212 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.120 they're like telling you what you are, which is kind of weird and a 213 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:34.320 way I've that's probably the biggest thing I've seen. Another one, this was 214 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:40.320 for a copywriter. This is like probably my favorite one. So the first 215 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:45.559 job of a copywriter is to have ideas, to see the world in a 216 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:52.639 new way and to share that unique vision with consumers through writing. So like 217 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.840 these just giant like statements that are just like, Oh, you are so 218 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:02.519 special, you're going to be so important to us, and how can we 219 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:07.519 get you to work for FIFTYZERO dollars a year? Yep, Yep. It's 220 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:12.200 so interesting. Like even in that language it feels very copy pasted, like 221 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:21.200 we are looking up almost like a very general blog post about what maybe copywriters 222 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:26.079 do. We took the little like description and we just threw it in there 223 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.480 as now part of what you're going to do. I wonder, like, 224 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:36.880 as you've done this, you see the language like more often than not be 225 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.079 this way for entry level jobs and as they go up, because, like 226 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:45.680 entry level, two couldn't can sometimes be catchall or so what have you seen? 227 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.319 Like more clarity on higher positions and less on lower or how does that 228 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:56.519 play out? Yeah, usually that's very true. So those, especially the 229 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:00.680 midlevel, the midlevel positions, just get railed on these job postings. Like 230 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.680 I feel like in a way entry level are at least a little bit better 231 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:10.160 expectations. But Man, those midlevel job postings are just so convoluted, like 232 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:17.240 to your point, no concise statements, no clarity, just very catch all 233 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:21.519 bullet points and like these big buttery statements. So yeah, from what I've 234 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:29.480 seen, anything like VP level or above are usually incredibly concise and incredibly clear, 235 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:32.559 like I would know exactly what I was going to be doing if I 236 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:37.039 applied for that job. But also is the move to write from like practitioner 237 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.599 into more of a leadership role, where sometimes it's easier to write out like 238 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.559 leadership statements than it is to say here's what your daytoday is going to look 239 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.759 like in this mid or entry level role where you're going to be hyper in 240 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:53.920 the weeds on certain things. So I understand, but again, man, 241 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.599 more of a need to provide clarity for those that are coming into those roles, 242 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.799 because if you can do that from the outset, you also set your 243 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.039 team up to win so much better because the person's coming in knowing exactly what 244 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.160 to expect. And that's the part of this where we've all ended up, 245 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:11.519 probably, or a lot of our listeners and rolls, where you're like, 246 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.440 Oh, I thought I'd be doing this, but like it wasn't. I 247 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:17.440 guess we never really talked about it and I kind of like, this is 248 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:18.799 what I did at my last company or this is what I was good at 249 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:21.880 there, you know, and then you get into an you're like, oh, 250 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.480 just so different. It's like I'm so having that clarity or from the 251 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.519 outset. I think that's the most important part of the work you're doing with 252 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.559 these and that takes us home right here. That's the fourth one. Lack 253 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:38.880 of clarity around strategy. And yes, if you have this problem, you 254 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.680 gotta be hiring a leader to then take on the strategy, but talk a 255 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:48.079 bit about how you see this playing out. Yeah, so you totally nailed 256 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:52.680 it. That was perfect kind of summary of it. If you are posting 257 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:57.880 these big long, unclear job postings for mid or entry level rolls. What 258 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.279 I see, and what I'm trying to get other marketers to see, is 259 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:06.480 that company has no idea what they need from marketing. So they're just throwing 260 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.799 everything they've ever heard about marketing into a giant bucket and hoping you come out 261 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:15.279 doing something. So what you need here, then, is to really look 262 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.960 at some companies in their job posting will tell you who you'll be reporting to. 263 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:26.680 If you are not reporting directly to a marketing leader your that's probably your 264 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.920 red flag. That's probably a red flag that they don't really have a marketing 265 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.680 strategy. So that's number one and, like you know, I've got a 266 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:36.680 lot of flak for that. Like how do you feel, because you're more 267 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:40.559 on the SAS side than I am. I'm an industrial and manufacturing so they 268 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.039 don't really have a lot of marketing leaders. So what we tell a lot 269 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:48.920 of these companies is, Hey, if you're getting serious about building an internal 270 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:53.720 marketing team, you need to make serious investment and marketing leadership. I yeah, 271 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:59.480 I mean having that person that then can lead the team has some leadership 272 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:03.759 experience. Dunes, even if you sit within like a revenue type team, 273 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.440 or if you have some sort of combination department, that's fine, but having 274 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.960 someone that's really owning marketing so that as you move forward, like the next 275 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:17.759 few hires are informed by somebody, even if that somebody reports to somebuddy that 276 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:22.799 doesn't have the same marketing brain that becomes absolutely usual and I could see, 277 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:27.799 I could see where you're at in your world. This definitely with the marketing 278 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:32.559 conversation is different, I think outside of Sass as well. So, and 279 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:37.079 these are a fun for I'm definitely coming to you anytime I want to apply 280 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:38.079 for a job in the future. Of like, is this a good idea 281 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:41.039 or idea? These red flags at work and I don't see. I'm okading. 282 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.720 You're able to spot this. Yeah, so you're seeing so many of 283 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:49.039 these. Okay, Oh yeah, let me ask you this as we start 284 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.880 to wrap up, if you could give any advice to the to those that 285 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:57.039 are responsible for hiring for the job writing, you know, job creation, 286 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:00.000 what would it be? What would you tell them to focus on as we 287 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.319 leave this episode? Yeah, so, I mean I think we've given some 288 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:08.799 really good paths, some really good paths forward for people who want to write 289 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:14.359 these job postings and want to build out that internal marketing function. I think 290 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:19.039 the only thing we didn't really touch on in depth. When someone leaves and 291 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:25.960 a position opens up, look at this as an opportunity to really assess your 292 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.200 current needs. So what I see is a lot of companies have a marketing 293 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:36.279 roll or a sales roll or some midlevel entry level roll open up because someone 294 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:41.000 resigns or finds a new job or retires, and the immediate instinct is just 295 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.160 fill that role, like let's go out and fill the role that we just 296 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.960 lost. But Hey, take a step back and ask did we really need 297 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:55.119 that marketing specialist? Did we really need that general marketing data analyst, or 298 00:22:55.160 --> 00:23:00.279 would we be better served at maybe looking at our one to three year goals 299 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:04.200 and digging deep on how we picture our team and our company getting there? 300 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:10.119 Because then I think those opportunities really open themselves up. Do we need more 301 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:14.400 content, so do I need to actually hire like a really good copywriter? 302 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.880 Do we need more video, so do I need to invest in a freelance 303 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.759 videographer? How can I use this budget that I have, this giant budget 304 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.640 set that just opened up, and really help us like get those one to 305 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:32.359 three year goals? I love that and I think that is so true, 306 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:34.160 how easy it is to copy and paste, like if we lose this role, 307 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:38.599 we should just hire for the same instead of thinking strategically about that. 308 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:44.079 was great to hire four before and now we might be in a position where 309 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:48.880 there could be something that would suit us better, and so thinking through it 310 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.920 that way help so much and you've given away great tips as well, obviously, 311 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.000 for those that are in the job search right now, what to be 312 00:23:56.039 --> 00:24:00.160 thinking about, what to be focused on. Mary, thank you for spending 313 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.880 time with us on B to be gross, for sharing this, for breaking 314 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.200 it down for people that want to see these posts. Actually you can go 315 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:12.039 to Mary's Linkedin and we have that linked in our show notes. But anything 316 00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:15.039 else you want to plug? Tell US maybe a little bit more about grilla 317 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:21.440 seventy six and ways we can check you guys out. Yeah, yeah, 318 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:26.519 please. So, Girl of seventy six is an agency, full service demand 319 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:33.960 Generation Agency for midsize be to be American industrial manufacturers. I know that's a 320 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.359 big mouthful, but if you want to see some of the stuff that we're 321 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.839 doing, really encourage you to go on our website, grilla seventy sixcom, 322 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.799 and if you go to the events tab. We do a by monthly event 323 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:51.720 called Industrial Marketing Live, where we just cover a topic and open it up 324 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:56.640 to a community and hear about the struggles and successes of people in our industry. 325 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:02.640 So a lot of marketing specialist, directors of marketing marketing managers in industrial 326 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.119 companies just talking about what they do and who they help and how we can 327 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:11.000 help them kind of reach their goals. It's really it's really fun. Love 328 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:14.960 that. Thanks for sharing. Thank you for taking time to be with us 329 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.160 today and we really appreciate it for our listeners. If you have yet to 330 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:22.039 follow the show on whatever your favorite podcast platform is, be sure to do 331 00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:25.920 that. You can connect with me as well over on Linkedin. Just Search 332 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:30.200 Benjie Block and we will be back real soon with a other conversation. Mary, 333 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.920 thanks again for stopping by. Heck things bend. I appreciate it. 334 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.680 For B Tob Marketing leaders, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. 335 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.079 Now more than ever, it's important for us to be connected with our 336 00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:56.680 peers enter marketing squad. It's the sweet fish take on community and it offers 337 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:02.640 be tob marketing leaders an opportunity to share and grow learn more by reaching out 338 00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:07.640 to our community manager, Diana Mitchell, at Diana dot Mitchell at sweet fish Mediacom