Merging Marketing Teams (More Than Once!)

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.540 --> 00:00:10.520 look, it's You're not just merging two things you're emerging, you're bringing 2 00:00:10.520 --> 00:00:15.170 people together, right? And there's a lot of trepidation, and there's 3 00:00:15.170 --> 00:00:21.170 trepidation on both sides. Welcome back to the C X series here on B two b 4 00:00:21.170 --> 00:00:25.800 growth. My name is Ethan Butte. I host the C X Series. I host the customer 5 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:30.440 experience podcast, and I'm co author of Re Humanize Your Business. How 6 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:35.810 Personal Videos Accelerate Sales and Improve Customer Experience. Now you're 7 00:00:35.810 --> 00:00:40.920 in for a treat on this episode in the series. Isabel Papoulias CMO at Media 8 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:46.030 Fly is my guest. She is a great storyteller. This is a fun conversation 9 00:00:46.030 --> 00:00:50.470 to listen to, and there are two key themes. One is how she provided 10 00:00:50.470 --> 00:00:55.330 leadership as their company made two acquisitions in about one year's time 11 00:00:55.340 --> 00:01:00.100 and things that she learned in that process and the other is marketing. As 12 00:01:00.100 --> 00:01:04.860 you expand your ideal customer profile as your go to market motions get more 13 00:01:04.860 --> 00:01:10.930 complicated, there's a lot to learn and enjoy in this conversation with Isabel. 14 00:01:10.940 --> 00:01:16.340 Many companies grow through acquisitions, great for the business 15 00:01:16.350 --> 00:01:20.820 but often disruptive to people and processes. What does the acquisition 16 00:01:20.820 --> 00:01:24.460 mean for you and your team members What does it mean for your customers and the 17 00:01:24.460 --> 00:01:27.930 customers of the acquired company? And specifically, how does marketing 18 00:01:27.930 --> 00:01:32.820 survive rounds of acquisitions? Our guest today brings three specific 19 00:01:32.820 --> 00:01:36.510 insights to help us with this challenge and opportunity she brings to the 20 00:01:36.510 --> 00:01:40.980 conversation more than 20 years building global iconic brands like 21 00:01:40.990 --> 00:01:45.200 MasterCard Worldwide, Crate and Barrel, Johnson and Johnson carry Gold, Kohler, 22 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:50.840 Ikeya and more with legendary agencies like McCann Erickson, Um Worldwide and 23 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:56.640 Omnicom Media Group. She currently serves as CMO at Media Fly, a platform 24 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:01.280 that helps sales and marketing teams create a modern selling experience that 25 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:06.070 values the buyer and drives business growth. She also speaks four languages 26 00:02:06.080 --> 00:02:10.870 French, Greek, Spanish and the language will be speaking today. English Isabel 27 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:15.350 Papoulias. Welcome to the customer experience. Podcast High. Then thank 28 00:02:15.350 --> 00:02:18.890 you for having me. Yeah, I'm really excited for the conversation. I can't 29 00:02:18.890 --> 00:02:22.740 wait to hear just kind of, in your own words, that story of multiple 30 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:26.430 acquisitions in a in a very tight period of time, but just kind of get 31 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:30.220 warmed up. You built a career in New York City and then transitioned to 32 00:02:30.220 --> 00:02:34.900 Chicago several years back. Walk that out for me. I'm very familiar with 33 00:02:34.900 --> 00:02:38.680 Chicago. I love it. I've only visited New York a couple of times. Do a little 34 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.590 compare and contrast, like what's similar about them. What's different? 35 00:02:41.590 --> 00:02:47.960 House Chicago Going for you? I get that question all the time. Uh, love Chicago. 36 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:51.480 I used to love New York while I was there, was there for two decades. It 37 00:02:51.480 --> 00:02:55.300 was amazing. I built my career there and then I will come one morning and I 38 00:02:55.300 --> 00:03:00.320 was bored. And, you know, people are still surprised today when I say that 39 00:03:00.330 --> 00:03:03.250 they they say, Well, you can't How can you be born in New York? I'm like you 40 00:03:03.250 --> 00:03:09.180 can because, you know, 22 years is a long time to live there. And yes, 41 00:03:09.180 --> 00:03:12.360 something is reinvent themselves. But at the same time, it's kind of the same 42 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:15.740 thing. Like you walked every block, you know? Yes, maybe it's a different 43 00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:19.410 restaurant, but it's kind of variation on the last one, and I actually was 44 00:03:19.410 --> 00:03:22.760 looking to lingual country for a couple of years. I was looking maybe to go to 45 00:03:22.760 --> 00:03:26.000 London. I'm from Europe. I thought I'd be close with my family, and I also 46 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:30.870 love Mexico City, so it was actively interviewing there and, uh, low and 47 00:03:30.870 --> 00:03:35.310 behold. Essentially two jobs found me from Chicago on the same week through 48 00:03:35.310 --> 00:03:40.780 LinkedIn, right to companies. And I took that as a sign from the universe, 49 00:03:40.780 --> 00:03:46.710 and I came to interview I I fell in love with Chicago instantly, and here I 50 00:03:46.710 --> 00:03:49.870 am. And it's, you know, it's like a smaller version of New York. It's it's 51 00:03:49.870 --> 00:03:55.560 a big city. I see them as sister cities. So I think you know a lot of great art, 52 00:03:55.570 --> 00:04:01.780 great food, great career opportunities, A lot cheaper to live here. I'm 53 00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:08.120 promoting Chicago right now, so, uh, it's been it's exceeded my expectations. 54 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.840 Actually, this is home. This is home for a long time. Yeah, that's my 55 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:15.630 impression, too, is that it has a lot of the same qualities and benefits of 56 00:04:15.630 --> 00:04:19.339 New York. And you already mentioned a couple of them. And, of course, truly 57 00:04:19.339 --> 00:04:23.300 international population, etcetera, etcetera, but a lot more manageable, 58 00:04:23.310 --> 00:04:27.300 just a little bit easier to get around more affordable et cetera. And so it 59 00:04:27.300 --> 00:04:31.640 comes with some trade offs. But I love I love Chicago. All right, so customer 60 00:04:31.640 --> 00:04:35.160 experience is about when I say that what does it mean to you? 61 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:41.880 So for me, it means the light. You know, it means customer delight. And that's a 62 00:04:41.880 --> 00:04:45.740 That's a term I heard from a new business coach a long time ago in my my 63 00:04:45.740 --> 00:04:49.600 ad agency days that I stuck to. And at the end of the day, what that means is, 64 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.580 how do you make your customer feel? And what I mean by that is really how do 65 00:04:53.580 --> 00:04:57.170 you make them feel from the very beginning of their interaction with 66 00:04:57.170 --> 00:05:02.910 your brand two way later, when the body become a customer, right? So it's 67 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:06.070 really about the selling experience, which is also the business that media 68 00:05:06.070 --> 00:05:09.650 flies in right and everything is selling. I mean, you're starting to 69 00:05:09.650 --> 00:05:14.460 sell way before your sales reps getting gauge, right? You're already selling 70 00:05:14.940 --> 00:05:17.800 indirectly when they're on your website looking for information, right? So at 71 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:21.990 every touch point when you're on your website, they're consuming content. 72 00:05:21.990 --> 00:05:25.050 What experience are you providing their when they engage with the cells Rap. 73 00:05:25.540 --> 00:05:29.060 What experience are you providing their one on one? You know, in those in those 74 00:05:29.060 --> 00:05:32.840 live engagements when you're following up with content, you know when you're 75 00:05:32.840 --> 00:05:36.640 selling them something How interactive, How animated is that content, right? Is 76 00:05:36.640 --> 00:05:41.050 it flat and boring, or is it highly engaging when they become a customer? 77 00:05:41.340 --> 00:05:43.970 What training and onboarding experience that you're providing and then even 78 00:05:43.970 --> 00:05:48.050 beyond that? You know what experiential fun stuff are you doing right? I was 79 00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:55.870 invited to a shoe design events by a company recently, and I was a little 80 00:05:55.870 --> 00:05:59.670 skeptical going into it. But it was actually amazing, and it was virtual. 81 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:06.230 So it's just consistent, Delightful, you know, engagement with your brand at 82 00:06:06.230 --> 00:06:09.450 every touch point and are there consistent. So bring consistency. She 83 00:06:09.450 --> 00:06:14.380 was important. And I find that especially for those of us who, you 84 00:06:14.380 --> 00:06:20.100 know, run marketing teams in the text face startups a lot of emphasis on 85 00:06:20.110 --> 00:06:24.040 hyper growth all the time and generating demand. And I find this that 86 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:28.500 we often neglect the brand as a result. And so that's something that I 87 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:34.350 constantly try to remind myself of. And and and it's a you know, I was in a 88 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:39.100 conference once, and there was a speaker talking about the customer 89 00:06:39.100 --> 00:06:42.600 experience, and he started by saying, Start with the premise that everybody 90 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:46.680 hates your product. It's a lot of extreme, but I like it and really, what 91 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.710 I what I tell myself and what I tell you know the teams internally, often a 92 00:06:51.710 --> 00:06:56.450 media fly is started with the premise that in the customers or the prospects 93 00:06:56.450 --> 00:07:01.270 perception of our product is the same as everybody else is. So how are you 94 00:07:01.270 --> 00:07:03.760 really going to differentiate? You are going to differentiate on the 95 00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:08.910 experience, right? So that's That's my That's my thought on. That is how do 96 00:07:08.910 --> 00:07:13.800 you delight them at every point of engagement you check so many of the 97 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.870 boxes in. You know, I asked this question to all kinds of marketing 98 00:07:16.870 --> 00:07:21.240 sales. CS professionals, people in other types of roles as well and and 99 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:24.580 with different depths of expertise in different industries, and really 100 00:07:24.580 --> 00:07:29.040 checked all the boxes here, which is every touch point across the entire 101 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:34.980 customer. Lifecycle Pre sales sales process. Post sale Focus on delight, 102 00:07:34.980 --> 00:07:40.540 Focus on experience. Focus on how you're making people feel. Consistency 103 00:07:40.540 --> 00:07:43.670 is so key because we make these promises and some of the marketing 104 00:07:43.670 --> 00:07:47.160 pieces that we provide, which are touchpoints that build some awareness 105 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:51.780 and trust and perhaps affinity. But are you setting them up for expectations? 106 00:07:51.780 --> 00:07:55.130 that you can consistently deliver on check so many boxes really good and 107 00:07:55.130 --> 00:07:59.160 included a couple stories. Thank you so much for that. Um, for folks who aren't 108 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:03.690 familiar, tell us a little bit about media Fly like Who is your ideal 109 00:08:03.690 --> 00:08:07.490 customer and what are what is the primary problem or some of the problems 110 00:08:07.490 --> 00:08:13.730 that you solve for them? Sure, so media flies a sales enablement platform. We 111 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.370 provide a portfolio of, uh, sells presentation and content management 112 00:08:18.370 --> 00:08:22.690 tools to make the selling experience more engaging and more effective. Right? 113 00:08:22.690 --> 00:08:26.210 And so we were just talking about experience. The reason why we're in 114 00:08:26.210 --> 00:08:30.410 business is because I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that be 115 00:08:30.410 --> 00:08:34.260 to be selling whether you're the buyer or the seller. That experience is 116 00:08:34.260 --> 00:08:39.470 really poor. It's especially in the current environment, right? So if your 117 00:08:39.470 --> 00:08:42.950 rap it's getting harder and harder to sell and to meet quotas and to close 118 00:08:42.950 --> 00:08:47.580 those deals, and if you're a buyer, um, and there's plenty of stats on that 119 00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:52.770 right, it's the interaction is not delivering the value you're looking for. 120 00:08:52.780 --> 00:08:55.370 Most of them don't want to give the second meeting because they don't feel 121 00:08:55.370 --> 00:09:00.790 like they got much of the first one. And most most buyers we know come to 122 00:09:00.800 --> 00:09:04.420 interact with the seller much later in the journey, right? I think something 123 00:09:04.420 --> 00:09:09.710 like 65% of the of the of the journey at this point is self guided, right? So 124 00:09:09.710 --> 00:09:14.660 they're they're saying, Yeah, I don't really value you right And so we 125 00:09:15.140 --> 00:09:18.840 through our technology and the different tools will provide whether 126 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:23.340 it's a self presentation app, whether it's a content management system, 127 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:29.080 whether it's value selling tools like Ri or TCO calculators so that wraps can 128 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:32.480 really better quantify the value of the solution. They're they're they're 129 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:37.160 providing. We're putting content at the center, right? And so we're saying at 130 00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:41.810 the core of making that seller buyer experience the most effective and 131 00:09:41.810 --> 00:09:45.060 engaging it can be to ultimately drive revenue. Obviously, that's what we want 132 00:09:45.070 --> 00:09:49.660 for our companies. We're saying content is at the center of that. So whether 133 00:09:49.660 --> 00:09:55.490 it's you're building a great content hub on your website, whether it's your 134 00:09:55.490 --> 00:10:00.510 enabling your raps to use content to find it more easily to create more 135 00:10:00.510 --> 00:10:05.270 customized presentations easily to use like I said Ri, or to see a calculators 136 00:10:05.270 --> 00:10:09.600 to drive more of a quantitative conversation, you know, with the value 137 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.760 or whether it's even a post sale were saying, Content is at the center and 138 00:10:13.770 --> 00:10:16.210 and we want to create a conversation with you. We don't want to show up and 139 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:21.350 throw up a linear PowerPoint back right, which is what still happens a lot today, 140 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:27.180 and we we we serve. I mean, we have clients big and small, and I mean big. 141 00:10:27.180 --> 00:10:31.470 I mean, you know, Fortune 100 companies all the way to very small companies and 142 00:10:31.470 --> 00:10:35.980 everything in between. The reason for that is because we have again, and we 143 00:10:35.980 --> 00:10:41.090 have a broad set of tools that can serve big and large companies. And it's 144 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:44.830 not a one size fits all solution. You know, there's out of the box. But 145 00:10:44.830 --> 00:10:50.630 there's also plenty of capabilities to customize our sweet spot, and how we've 146 00:10:50.630 --> 00:10:56.620 grown is is the what I call the greedy industries, uh, like CPG and 147 00:10:56.620 --> 00:10:59.730 manufacturing the industries where you're not necessarily selling in a 148 00:10:59.730 --> 00:11:03.970 fancy meaning space or boardroom. Okay, especially right now, everybody's 149 00:11:03.970 --> 00:11:08.160 selling from home. But, you know, you might only have 10 minutes on a factory 150 00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:11.870 floor, and so you have to make an impact very, very quickly, and it has 151 00:11:11.870 --> 00:11:15.100 to be memorable, right, And you have to prove the value that you can bring to 152 00:11:15.100 --> 00:11:19.180 the table. And then in a remote selling environment that today it's even harder, 153 00:11:19.180 --> 00:11:23.380 right? How do you make that interaction more engaging when it's, uh, it's a 154 00:11:23.380 --> 00:11:31.080 ritual. So that's that's in a nutshell, What we do and who we work with. I love 155 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.640 it So it sounds like you one of the key things you're doing is taking that 65% 156 00:11:35.640 --> 00:11:40.390 of the self guided journey and and providing a variety of ways for 157 00:11:40.390 --> 00:11:45.590 companies to fulfill the need in that 65% in a way that brings them probably 158 00:11:45.590 --> 00:11:51.300 warmer to the point of interaction. And beyond that, So So, yes, we do that 159 00:11:51.300 --> 00:11:57.740 through Contin Hubbs, right? And then we, uh, But we also enable marketing 160 00:11:57.740 --> 00:12:02.610 teams to enable the cells reps. So typically what happens is for many 161 00:12:02.610 --> 00:12:08.330 companies is there are selling in what we call a traditional way. So there is 162 00:12:08.330 --> 00:12:13.040 no they're updating content. They're emailing wraps, you know, or they have 163 00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:16.280 three or four different. You know, they might have some things on the server, 164 00:12:16.280 --> 00:12:19.050 and they might use some disparate content management systems. And so 165 00:12:19.050 --> 00:12:24.160 content is all over the place. It's not updated, and so for reps to actually 166 00:12:24.740 --> 00:12:28.940 find that content and use it, it's very hard. And so what happens is they go 167 00:12:28.940 --> 00:12:33.240 rogue, right? And then you have issues with brand compliance. I've seen that 168 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:38.500 slide deck before. It is not pretty. Exactly. So we are. We're not just 169 00:12:38.510 --> 00:12:42.300 we're not just impacting the 65. 65% of the self self guided part of the 170 00:12:42.300 --> 00:12:47.450 journey were also impacting very much the the engagement between the cells 171 00:12:47.450 --> 00:12:52.320 rap and and the buyer one on one. Awesome. I was gonna ask you about 172 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.950 evolved selling, which is a phrase that that you all used to talk about this 173 00:12:55.950 --> 00:13:01.340 kind of evolution of sales enablement that has some more dynamic pieces to it. 174 00:13:01.340 --> 00:13:04.880 It's interactive, it's and more engaging in general, but I think you 175 00:13:04.880 --> 00:13:09.090 really tackled it there in talking about you know, some of the some of the 176 00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:13.340 current traditional problems that require an evolved approach so that you 177 00:13:13.340 --> 00:13:16.480 don't have reps going rogue and all of that I hear brand compliance all the 178 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:21.450 time is as a really big sticking point for marketing teams and sales teams in 179 00:13:21.450 --> 00:13:24.350 general, and it's funny because the teams kind of put themselves in that 180 00:13:24.350 --> 00:13:29.850 situation. It's so interesting. Well, marketing is great at creating a whole 181 00:13:29.850 --> 00:13:35.510 lot of content. You know, we're not always so great an understanding how 182 00:13:35.510 --> 00:13:41.890 that content ultimately is used right by reps. How it's consumed by prospects 183 00:13:41.900 --> 00:13:45.570 and, ultimately, how it's impacting the bottom line and a big part of what we 184 00:13:45.570 --> 00:13:49.610 do. We actually, actually, surprisingly I forgot to mention. Is that what we 185 00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:55.490 call the media flying sites? So it's the measurement piece right? Which 186 00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:59.130 enables you do, once you understand how your prospects are consuming the 187 00:13:59.130 --> 00:14:04.280 content, how your reps are using it and you can tie the use of that content 188 00:14:04.280 --> 00:14:07.530 stage by stage across the journey, right? Every every part of the journey, 189 00:14:07.540 --> 00:14:11.350 all the way to go. This is moving me from this stage to the next stage, and 190 00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:16.160 these content assets are actually help me close more deals, right, So as a 191 00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:20.610 marketer, I'm going to produce more of those types of assets for myself, right? 192 00:14:20.790 --> 00:14:24.740 And I'm going to stop spending money on whole bunch of other stuff that I've 193 00:14:24.740 --> 00:14:29.560 been creating all along that is not really working right. And especially in 194 00:14:29.560 --> 00:14:34.100 this day of age of you know, economic uncertainty and marketing budgets are 195 00:14:34.100 --> 00:14:39.260 highly scrutinized, really making sure your content is working the hardest and 196 00:14:39.260 --> 00:14:42.190 that you're putting your marketing dollars on the right content. Creation 197 00:14:42.190 --> 00:14:45.630 is is key because otherwise you're wasting money that you really don't 198 00:14:45.630 --> 00:14:48.800 want to be wasting right now. Absolutely, I don't want to. I don't 199 00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:52.320 want to go too deep here, but I'm just really curious. I would assume that you 200 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:57.650 plug into other systems and other platforms so that as you're kind of 201 00:14:57.940 --> 00:15:01.600 identifying that people are moving through these content experiences, 202 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.710 they're moving through the sales funnel. And some of that reporting probably 203 00:15:04.710 --> 00:15:07.810 speaks in and out of other systems. Absolutely marketing automation, 204 00:15:07.810 --> 00:15:12.480 platforms and and certainly CRM. CRM is a big one for me. That's the biggest, 205 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:18.030 probably the biggest integration there. And there's a lot of also AI built in 206 00:15:18.040 --> 00:15:22.390 in the integration between CRM and uh and media fly in terms of content 207 00:15:22.390 --> 00:15:27.440 recommendations again, making it making it easier for the reps to be have the 208 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.120 perfect content the figure tips for the conversation they're about to have, not 209 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:38.510 the one size fits. All right, Um, so yes, integrations across the entire 210 00:15:38.520 --> 00:15:43.400 tech stock. Awesome. Really Very helpful, I'm sure. For marketers and 211 00:15:43.400 --> 00:15:49.000 salespeople of businesses of all sizes. As you said so, part of the way that 212 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:53.480 that media fly has grown is through acquisitions. So what I'd love to do is 213 00:15:53.490 --> 00:15:58.310 a here. The story be kind of some of the most immediate and obvious 214 00:15:58.310 --> 00:16:03.330 considerations, kind of like what's up for grabs when you have acquired or 215 00:16:03.330 --> 00:16:07.240 been acquired and maybe some of the effect. You know, you don't need to do 216 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.580 this all in one pass, but I kind of want to outline Where this goes is like 217 00:16:10.590 --> 00:16:13.600 talk about it from a customer perspective, right? Because obviously 218 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:15.950 there's some level of alignment. There's some reason you're making the 219 00:16:15.950 --> 00:16:19.870 acquisition. But now the marketing team's approach to the customer and the 220 00:16:19.870 --> 00:16:22.950 sales team's approach to the customer potentially especially if you're an 221 00:16:22.950 --> 00:16:26.880 emerged teams, changes the customer definition and maybe the total 222 00:16:26.880 --> 00:16:30.950 addressable market changes. And then you have three specific things that you 223 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:34.740 learned through the process that, um, I love these tips I've only seen the 224 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:38.000 bullet points, so I'm excited to get into them. But I think they even 225 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.880 transcend the acquisition piece and I think are probably helpful to leading 226 00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:45.790 and managing teams of people and leading complex processes regardless. 227 00:16:45.790 --> 00:16:51.020 But, um so let's start with the story. So you you commit to join the media fly 228 00:16:51.020 --> 00:16:55.190 team as, um gosh, that's actually another question I would love to ask 229 00:16:55.190 --> 00:16:58.180 you Is progress from sales and marketing? But we'll save that for 230 00:16:58.180 --> 00:17:02.720 later if we have time. So, um, tell me about the acquisition process for media 231 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.339 fly. What was the purpose of it? And what were some of the immediate 232 00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:12.060 consequences? Yeah, so we had to acquisitions in, uh, less than a year. 233 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.950 You know you mentioned involves selling earlier, right? So, I mean, I want to 234 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.020 kind of go back to that for a second, because that's the backdrop, really for 235 00:17:19.020 --> 00:17:24.130 the acquisitions, right? We we were lucky from the very beginning of the 236 00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:29.940 really the origination of media fly to way before my time to work with 237 00:17:29.950 --> 00:17:36.820 companies that were had really embraced content as the driver to a big digital 238 00:17:36.820 --> 00:17:42.900 transformation. Right? And so they were all out in terms of embracing 239 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:49.330 sophistication. And and as we looked at what these companies had in common, we 240 00:17:49.330 --> 00:17:56.170 also realized that, you know, they were kind of a very verified few, right? So 241 00:17:56.540 --> 00:18:02.080 then, for us, the question became, Well, how do we bring involved selling really 242 00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:05.650 to the masses? And so that's how we start to think about acquisitions is 243 00:18:05.650 --> 00:18:11.240 how do we expand our portfolio of offerings to make it easier and less 244 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.000 risky to some extent, to write with a lower price point for quote unquote the 245 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:20.070 masses to have access to really enterprise level self enablement 246 00:18:20.070 --> 00:18:24.890 technology. Right? And so the first acquisition was a Florida based, 247 00:18:24.890 --> 00:18:29.270 Orlando based company called a Linear, which build value selling tools like 248 00:18:29.270 --> 00:18:35.860 the calculations, The calculators I mentioned earlier, Um, and I believe 249 00:18:35.860 --> 00:18:43.340 that was in December of what November, December of 2018, I want to say and 250 00:18:43.340 --> 00:18:50.920 then about July August of 2019 is when we acquired I present, which was a UK 251 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:55.020 based, self enabling provider, a lot more similar to two hours. So it was a 252 00:18:55.020 --> 00:19:00.770 self presentation app and combined with I can't imagine system, but what they 253 00:19:00.770 --> 00:19:06.640 had going for them is that they really were very successful with S and B s. So 254 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:12.820 we up to that door in media fly was seen as kind of a premium niche sales 255 00:19:12.820 --> 00:19:19.060 enablement platform for the the very sophisticated enterprise you know, size 256 00:19:19.060 --> 00:19:23.080 companies that again had embraced. We're looking for big digital 257 00:19:23.080 --> 00:19:28.650 transformation, and we again we're looking to expand our total addressable 258 00:19:28.650 --> 00:19:32.310 market and because I present had the SMB side of things. Essentially, you 259 00:19:32.310 --> 00:19:35.460 put them together and you can do sell the environment for all which, by the 260 00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:39.770 way, end up being our campaign around to announce the I present acquisition. 261 00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:46.750 Um, so that's that's the That's the you know, the reason behind it. And then as 262 00:19:46.750 --> 00:19:52.300 far as you know, the customer and have that changes in the value proposition, 263 00:19:52.300 --> 00:19:56.560 you can stop me if I'm going too fast. This is where it gets tricky, right? 264 00:19:56.560 --> 00:20:01.100 Because acquisitions are a fantastic thing. No question, right? You're 265 00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:03.810 you're if you're doing it for the right reasons. Hopefully you are you started 266 00:20:03.810 --> 00:20:09.420 through. It only makes you better at servicing your customers, right? But it 267 00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:13.400 can be disruptive in a sense that you're combining brands. You're 268 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:18.000 combining people or you're combining company values. You know, in our case, 269 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.460 for example, you know, we we brought in a Libyan. And so, of course, our value 270 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:24.070 prop changed a little bit on our message. You have to change a little 271 00:20:24.070 --> 00:20:27.400 bit. And just when you think you've, like, nailed your new messaging, here 272 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:34.760 goes another acquisition. So it's disruptive from that standpoint. But 273 00:20:34.760 --> 00:20:38.630 you gotta keep your you have to keep your eyes on the on the price, right? 274 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:43.720 What's the reason why you're doing this? And you're doing it to, uh, serve your 275 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:48.340 customers better and expand your total addressable market and core revenue in 276 00:20:48.340 --> 00:20:52.510 the end? And so from, uh, when when I think about the customers specifically, 277 00:20:52.520 --> 00:20:56.100 that's been a great story for us because you know the message to our to 278 00:20:56.100 --> 00:20:58.750 our customers. And when we have an acquisition, we need to message all our 279 00:20:58.750 --> 00:21:02.660 audiences, right? So it's our customer base. It's our internal. Yes, obviously 280 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:06.720 our employees, that's that's very, very important. And then it's the external 281 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.220 audiences like prospects and then all the influences around it, like analysts 282 00:21:10.220 --> 00:21:14.000 and partners and you know, your channel and whatnot. But in some ways I want to 283 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.060 say that the customer, the message to customers, is the easiest one because 284 00:21:18.840 --> 00:21:23.960 it's bigger, better, more for you. Yeah, right. And we have I mean, there's been 285 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:28.510 very I will say there's been no backlash. There are no friction. I mean, 286 00:21:28.520 --> 00:21:31.670 all our acquisitions have been very well received for that reason, because 287 00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:37.060 our customers understood very well how it it expanded our capabilities in the 288 00:21:37.540 --> 00:21:38.350 the right way. 289 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:44.070 Yeah, So you're, um it sounds like they were specifically kind of product 290 00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:49.290 portfolio expansions at some level, although certainly with the for the 291 00:21:49.290 --> 00:21:53.410 first one. A little bit less so with the second one. How did you tackle 292 00:21:53.420 --> 00:21:58.840 internal communication? And specifically, did you bring members 293 00:21:58.840 --> 00:22:03.290 from either of those other companies into your marketing team as CMO? And 294 00:22:03.290 --> 00:22:07.240 how did you How did you blend that together? So before I answer that, I 295 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.460 wanted to touch on your first comment, which you said they were products 296 00:22:12.140 --> 00:22:15.950 portfolio expansions with the first one, but also with the second one in a sense 297 00:22:15.950 --> 00:22:20.680 that one of the reasons I present was so successful with S and B's was they 298 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:23.660 had really fantastic. You axe 299 00:22:24.740 --> 00:22:29.230 very easy to set up, you could set it up in hours. A lot of grades, 300 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:32.810 interactivity and animation features that we didn't have again. Arts was a 301 00:22:32.810 --> 00:22:37.530 little more premium, a lot more custom. A lot of more, you know. And so part of 302 00:22:37.530 --> 00:22:40.600 what we're looking to do was to to to take some of that great ux and 303 00:22:40.600 --> 00:22:44.870 injecting into the original media flight platform, Right? Uh, and they 304 00:22:44.870 --> 00:22:49.100 had a freedom offer and so on. So that was, you know, there was There was a 305 00:22:49.100 --> 00:22:54.860 lot to the I present product as well that that that that benefited us. So I 306 00:22:54.860 --> 00:22:57.770 don't I don't want to undermine that. But you're right. The linear and 307 00:22:57.770 --> 00:23:02.100 nonlinear was really a something. Calculators was not something we were 308 00:23:02.100 --> 00:23:09.040 already doing right in terms of the people side of things. Yes, we did. We 309 00:23:09.040 --> 00:23:13.670 did emerge teams. So actually, one of our one of the core things we look at 310 00:23:13.670 --> 00:23:18.930 when we look for companies to acquire is to make sure that there's no there's 311 00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:24.000 no redundancy. There is no application. And so we've been able to do that very 312 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.770 well with both acquisitions where, you know, there's been no layoffs, you know, 313 00:23:28.780 --> 00:23:31.590 at the moment of acquisition and things like that, because we really are is a 314 00:23:31.590 --> 00:23:36.690 perfect marriage across the board and so lucky me I inherited. I think I want 315 00:23:36.690 --> 00:23:43.260 to see 33 folks, maybe four from the I present side into my marketing team. 316 00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:47.020 And then before that from the Iranian side, there was one more person that 317 00:23:47.020 --> 00:23:53.280 joined so and it's been just looking exactly for what? Getting exactly what 318 00:23:53.280 --> 00:23:56.240 I was looking for, except that rather than going outside and finding and 319 00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.750 hiring it, I was able to get through the acquisition. And in fact, our CEO 320 00:23:59.750 --> 00:24:05.090 calls those acquisitions. Aqua hires nice. I love it. So the idea of getting 321 00:24:05.090 --> 00:24:09.590 not just the tech not just access to the customer base and access to the 322 00:24:09.590 --> 00:24:13.670 revenue but access to the talent and experience and insights. I love it. 323 00:24:14.140 --> 00:24:18.150 Yeah, and it's a It's a more efficient way to do it as part of the deal right 324 00:24:18.150 --> 00:24:23.700 overall than to go higher individuals that way. Yeah, when the approach 325 00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:27.050 obviously seems very, very thoughtful, it seems like there's a lot of 326 00:24:27.050 --> 00:24:31.080 relationship building and probably a lot of homework done. And so, um, I 327 00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:35.140 would guess that the cultural transition probably was not especially 328 00:24:35.150 --> 00:24:39.700 difficult because of the work that was done in advance to exactly because 329 00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:44.020 that's part of the strategy to right. So it's the Is it the right fit? Yes, 330 00:24:44.020 --> 00:24:47.750 of course, from a product standpoint and you, the financials and all those 331 00:24:47.750 --> 00:24:52.870 things. But the people side of of it, whether again, the aqua hire notion of 332 00:24:52.870 --> 00:24:59.420 it, as well as the culture huge for us, huge. In fact, I remember being in a 333 00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:03.520 board meeting. We were discussing those acquisitions. I forget it was It was 334 00:25:03.520 --> 00:25:08.340 the first one or the second one. I don't remember and we all agreed. I 335 00:25:08.340 --> 00:25:14.270 remember highlighting how I felt our two companies were perfect cultural fit. 336 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:20.060 And I remember one of our board members saying That's the most important thing 337 00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:26.150 because even if everything else is perfectly in place, if there is not 338 00:25:26.150 --> 00:25:33.100 imaginable cultures, it will fail. And no question. And we've been I don't 339 00:25:33.100 --> 00:25:35.870 know that I can say we've been lucky, because again, it's it's front and 340 00:25:35.870 --> 00:25:39.690 center. In terms of our strategy, we're not going to acquire a company. What we 341 00:25:39.690 --> 00:25:44.150 feel is not a good cultural fit fit but I feel like we've, you know, we clearly 342 00:25:44.150 --> 00:25:48.280 we made some. We've been very diligent about that point. And so we made by 343 00:25:48.280 --> 00:25:52.480 decisions as a result. So, yes, the culture hasn't been. There's been no 344 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.920 real friction there. Awesome. Go to the customer side of it. Obviously, the 345 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:02.430 sales and marketing motion and SMB is different than sales and marketing 346 00:26:02.430 --> 00:26:07.020 motion for you know, you mentioned Fortune 100 companies and you span that 347 00:26:07.020 --> 00:26:11.770 whole gamut. How did expanding that total addressable market really affect 348 00:26:11.770 --> 00:26:14.780 you and your team? How did it change the way you think about things? How did 349 00:26:14.780 --> 00:26:18.930 it change the way you approached the work that you were doing to address the 350 00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:24.650 difference? Yeah. I'm so glad you're asking that because it is different and 351 00:26:24.650 --> 00:26:30.160 I don't think we're quite prepared for how different it it it was. So we, you 352 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:35.000 know, full transparency. We we we I feel like we're skewed a little bit. We 353 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.520 started to skew to imagine one direction, so I don't want to say we 354 00:26:38.520 --> 00:26:42.360 ignore the enterprise side and we pivoted a little too hard on S and B s, 355 00:26:42.940 --> 00:26:48.850 but it feels that way in hindsight. And then we kind of Then we corrected right 356 00:26:48.850 --> 00:26:56.200 and and then we we went through a really funny value prop or really a 357 00:26:56.210 --> 00:27:02.810 reassessment of Ri CPR, ideal customer profile and and and and starting to do 358 00:27:02.820 --> 00:27:05.220 a B m. You know, account based marketing from there, right? Really 359 00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:10.220 understanding that we really can be one thing for all people and we have been 360 00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:14.080 talking to SMB is more than enterprise, and that's not necessarily great for 361 00:27:14.080 --> 00:27:17.080 our business. So how do we make sure that we hit our audiences? And really, 362 00:27:17.080 --> 00:27:20.110 there's three audiences for us at this point. Three buckets, right? There's 363 00:27:20.110 --> 00:27:26.020 the enterprise tells motion There is the mid size companies actually cells 364 00:27:26.020 --> 00:27:29.780 motion. And then there's the really the velocity segment if you want to call it 365 00:27:29.780 --> 00:27:35.460 that way. And then there's the the self service segment, because for very small 366 00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:39.940 companies we enable them on our website. They can score on the website, swipe 367 00:27:39.940 --> 00:27:45.160 their credit card, get our Tier one offering and get up and started on 368 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:50.580 their own in a few hours. Right? And so those are three distinct self motions, 369 00:27:50.580 --> 00:27:55.810 and that's it wasn't clear to us, quite From the get go, it's a bit of trial 370 00:27:55.810 --> 00:28:00.420 and error, but we we adjusted and, uh, it's working well now and you know, and 371 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.830 that's that's a big learning from one of the big learnings from it from 372 00:28:03.830 --> 00:28:09.390 acquisitions is it won't be perfect. And that's okay. And it also gets, I 373 00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:14.700 think you learn and you get better at it every time. But it's okay if things 374 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:20.470 are not quite perfect. You always time to to tweak and and make it better. 375 00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.640 Yeah, and it's never gonna be perfect anyway. It's really interesting. We 376 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:27.840 haven't done it through acquisition, but we are in the same challenge right 377 00:28:27.840 --> 00:28:34.880 now where we do have self serve. We do have SMB. We do have more mid market 378 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.240 than enterprise. Think enterprises still, uh, in terms of what we do. I 379 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.070 mean, there's a lot of compliance. We do have a couple of very, very large 380 00:28:42.070 --> 00:28:46.450 customers that we've cut through a lot of red tape with and for, in order to 381 00:28:46.450 --> 00:28:51.460 get, you know, installed in them. But it is really interesting to span that 382 00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:56.000 group and to create a single website that allows people to self identify and 383 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.150 know where they are and to know that this is for you and, you know, to 384 00:28:59.150 --> 00:29:03.560 support the various sales people, in particular with the with the content 385 00:29:03.560 --> 00:29:07.080 that they need and all these other pieces, because they're all working at 386 00:29:07.080 --> 00:29:10.920 kind of different paces for different audiences. And even within we're just 387 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.710 talking about the size of the business right now. We're not even talking about 388 00:29:13.710 --> 00:29:17.360 some of the nuances of the industries that we serve, and all that is very 389 00:29:17.360 --> 00:29:20.670 complicated and challenging. But you teed it up there. I would love for you 390 00:29:20.670 --> 00:29:25.830 to to walk through kind of the three high level learnings you have from this 391 00:29:25.830 --> 00:29:33.190 experience. And the first one he shared with me is is not to rush. Yes, and I 392 00:29:33.190 --> 00:29:40.010 know it sounds counterintuitive, and this is advice that I I received from 393 00:29:40.020 --> 00:29:46.050 our marketing, our original marketing board advisor right before the the 394 00:29:46.050 --> 00:29:50.950 first acquisition. He specifically said that to me, and I don't think I really 395 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:57.400 listened. I wish I wish I had in the sense that he said, Look, you know, 396 00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:03.040 when the deal get signed, that's the first step. That's not actually the 397 00:30:03.040 --> 00:30:05.960 acquisition, right? I mean, that's that's not emerging empty companies 398 00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:11.970 that just the very beginning. The emerging takes time to happen. And, you 399 00:30:11.970 --> 00:30:15.170 know, we know for massive mergers that happened, right? And sometimes it takes 400 00:30:15.170 --> 00:30:19.820 several years. But even for for smaller companies, you know, he had said to me, 401 00:30:19.820 --> 00:30:24.140 It's gonna take at least a year. Basically, you start to, you know, to 402 00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:28.910 roll things out. But you also have your you know, your regular job, right? 403 00:30:28.910 --> 00:30:32.740 Everything else you still need to do to keep doing despite the acquisition. So 404 00:30:32.750 --> 00:30:36.780 bringing the rest of the two companies together will happen with the extra 405 00:30:36.780 --> 00:30:39.730 time that you have, right? So you don't want to break what's already working 406 00:30:39.730 --> 00:30:43.500 just for a second Emergency companies. But, you know, we were very ambitious 407 00:30:43.510 --> 00:30:47.700 across the organization, and and, uh, we wanted to be amazing. And so we 408 00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:51.030 immediately rolled out. We had all these great project plans and roadmaps, 409 00:30:51.030 --> 00:30:54.340 and we're like, this is how we're gonna emerge into websites, and this is how 410 00:30:54.340 --> 00:30:58.940 we're going to do a content assessment and build new content. And, uh, this is 411 00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:02.360 going to be the the tech stock, you know, a roadmap and how we're going to 412 00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:06.580 merge a tech stock and and we did everything within three months and it 413 00:31:06.580 --> 00:31:09.020 was across the organization. I'm speaking from the marketing side of 414 00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:12.460 things. You know what I just mentioned? But the truth is product side of things. 415 00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:16.370 Customer success, everybody operations. People got everything done really 416 00:31:16.370 --> 00:31:23.760 quickly. And for one that can lead to burnout, which I wouldn't recommend. 417 00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:28.420 Two is you know, there were things I would have done differently in high and 418 00:31:28.420 --> 00:31:33.660 hindsight is always 2020 right? And so had we taken more time, for example, 419 00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:38.740 merging the two websites. We did it and we did it well. But in the process of 420 00:31:38.750 --> 00:31:44.270 shutting down the Iranian website and you know, injecting some of their 421 00:31:44.270 --> 00:31:47.390 content and information. Two hours we lost something. We lost some things 422 00:31:47.390 --> 00:31:51.190 that were important, right, and we and we course corrected later. And so 423 00:31:51.190 --> 00:31:55.030 that's why I said what I said about perfect. It wasn't perfect. We made 424 00:31:55.030 --> 00:31:58.840 some mistakes. You can always address them later, right? But But in hindsight, 425 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:03.530 second acquisition with at present, we didn't do that. In fact, the website is 426 00:32:03.530 --> 00:32:10.480 still and still alive. It's alive and so just, you know, take the time. No 427 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:13.510 one no one is holding a gun to your head. No one should be holding a gun to 428 00:32:13.510 --> 00:32:17.860 your head after the deal is signed to really merge the two companies. I love 429 00:32:17.860 --> 00:32:23.660 it and it tees up specifically emerging. I think the next one kind of gets to 430 00:32:23.660 --> 00:32:29.900 what to do with the brands a little bit. The second one is check your biases. So 431 00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:33.700 yes, absolutely. You nail it. That has to do with the brand. And so another 432 00:32:33.700 --> 00:32:38.790 example here and it relates to the not rushing again. Don't rush so you can 433 00:32:38.790 --> 00:32:44.120 check your biases, right? So just because let's say we we acquired the 434 00:32:44.120 --> 00:32:50.670 Linnean and we were the bigger company. You know, we we underestimated really 435 00:32:50.670 --> 00:32:56.030 the brand equity that the Linnean name had, even though they were much smaller 436 00:32:56.030 --> 00:33:01.190 company. And and they had they were they were niche offering, right? And so 437 00:33:01.190 --> 00:33:04.270 what happened was in the process of eliminating the Linnean name, people 438 00:33:04.270 --> 00:33:08.950 couldn't find us. The people were not finding the value selling tools anymore. 439 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:13.910 So again we course corrected that, but there's a little bit of like we're, you 440 00:33:13.910 --> 00:33:17.200 know, we're the bigger company, were crying the other one, they're smaller. 441 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:23.660 And of course, we're gonna fill them under our brand. So? So just, you know, 442 00:33:23.660 --> 00:33:24.560 just watch that. 443 00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:29.390 That's one example. It could be anything else. Right? Um, so I think 444 00:33:29.390 --> 00:33:32.570 that it's important to check your biases. Yeah, I have a feeling that 445 00:33:32.570 --> 00:33:36.360 that has some effects internally as well. When you think about, you know, 446 00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:42.740 Aqua hiring is, you know, you want to make sure that that you're that the 447 00:33:42.750 --> 00:33:50.100 acquired team members don't feel second class or other either, right? And so 448 00:33:50.110 --> 00:33:54.400 I'm sure that the kind of the I guess generically speaking power dynamic of 449 00:33:54.410 --> 00:33:58.740 who's acquiring who has effect across the whole thing. And, of course, you 450 00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:03.120 spoke very smartly to one of the more interesting ones, which is brand equity 451 00:34:03.120 --> 00:34:06.620 and find ability. It's really smart. So I guess I was kind of teasing. They're 452 00:34:06.620 --> 00:34:10.900 a little bit your third one, which is mind the people, which just based in 453 00:34:10.900 --> 00:34:15.909 the words I like that one the best. But I'd love for you to elaborate on it. Oh, 454 00:34:15.909 --> 00:34:23.290 thank you. I, uh this one is so important to me. Look, it's you're not 455 00:34:23.290 --> 00:34:26.190 just emerging two things you're emerging. You're bringing people 456 00:34:26.190 --> 00:34:31.630 together, right? And there is a lot of trepidation, and there's trepidation on 457 00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:38.219 both sides. Let me tell you, right so and I I always remind my team on the 458 00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:43.230 media fly side right, whatever x they have going through the process, I 459 00:34:43.230 --> 00:34:47.870 remind them that multiply that by 10, and that's probably how the other side 460 00:34:47.870 --> 00:34:55.860 is feeling right, because empathy put yourself on in their shoes, right? 461 00:34:56.340 --> 00:35:01.980 They're the ones being acquired. And, yes, there was a culture fit. Um, but 462 00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:05.560 that's scary, you know, and their their positions are transitioning there. No, 463 00:35:05.570 --> 00:35:09.280 great. You know, in our case, Aqua hires. Nobody's losing their jobs over 464 00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.680 this. That's fantastic, but there's still transitions like people's roles. 465 00:35:12.690 --> 00:35:16.870 In some cases, it was a linear transition, you know, from one to the 466 00:35:16.870 --> 00:35:20.910 other. In other cases, people jobs were transformed, right? So there's an 467 00:35:20.910 --> 00:35:26.330 unknown factor, and people some people love, change and love the unknown and 468 00:35:26.330 --> 00:35:31.470 thrive on that like myself, for example, other people don't right, So you you 469 00:35:31.470 --> 00:35:37.840 have to mind that and what I found it was very, very helpful was one on one 470 00:35:37.850 --> 00:35:43.360 constant like chickens, right, both with the team that was already working 471 00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:48.080 with me as as well as the incoming team for a long time, right? Not just for a 472 00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:52.250 couple of weeks, right? But while this is happening and later, once they're 473 00:35:52.250 --> 00:35:55.520 already establishing their in their roles And how are you doing hard things 474 00:35:55.520 --> 00:36:00.960 feeling etcetera? And then, in the case of I present, you know, we also had 475 00:36:01.430 --> 00:36:05.880 different geography, different culture, right? The UK based where the U. S. I 476 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:09.370 know we're cousins, or I think that's what we call each other right cousins 477 00:36:09.380 --> 00:36:14.640 and I. You know, luckily I have my entire career has been global global 478 00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:18.620 account management. So really work working across the globe with hubs 479 00:36:18.620 --> 00:36:22.080 across the world. And I joke, in fact, that I know the US. Listen, I know the 480 00:36:22.080 --> 00:36:25.560 rest of the world, but there are nuances. There's absolutely You don't 481 00:36:25.560 --> 00:36:29.060 work with Europe the same way you work with Asia and you don't work in Latin 482 00:36:29.060 --> 00:36:31.980 America the same way you work with the U. S. And so on very different. And 483 00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:36.170 even within Europe, there's a lot of differences, right? So I was very 484 00:36:36.180 --> 00:36:39.150 mindful of that, and that's that's That's something to keep in mind in the 485 00:36:39.160 --> 00:36:43.150 in the communication styles in the jokes you make. 486 00:36:44.330 --> 00:36:50.110 We've got a few moments like that. So it's, uh it's a It's a constant 487 00:36:50.120 --> 00:36:55.430 reminder and constant empathy for for the people that are involved in the 488 00:36:55.430 --> 00:37:00.340 process. Yeah, And again, uh, if you are a regular listener to this show, 489 00:37:00.340 --> 00:37:04.870 you know very well that we have a lot of conversations about employee 490 00:37:04.870 --> 00:37:10.240 experience being a necessary precursor to customer experience. A great 491 00:37:10.250 --> 00:37:14.030 customer experience is basically impossible without a great employee 492 00:37:14.030 --> 00:37:18.060 experiences. So minding the people, thinking about the people on your team, 493 00:37:18.060 --> 00:37:22.620 spending time in one on one. I I found all three of your recommendations here 494 00:37:22.620 --> 00:37:28.650 for acquisition. Basically, you could apply a lot of the learnings to any 495 00:37:28.650 --> 00:37:33.670 kind of a changing, dynamic situation. Sometimes it's changes in strategy. So 496 00:37:33.670 --> 00:37:38.770 for us we seem to have a lot of interest air quoting here upmarket. How 497 00:37:38.770 --> 00:37:43.060 do we adapt our teams to continue as you did, continue to serve the 498 00:37:43.060 --> 00:37:46.900 customers that you already have while growing people and processes that 499 00:37:46.900 --> 00:37:51.300 support attracting and bringing on new customers as well? And so I've really 500 00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:55.460 enjoyed, um, this thoughtful approach. I'd love for you to address one more 501 00:37:55.460 --> 00:38:00.640 thing here before I give you the chance to give some. Give some Acknowledgments 502 00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:04.960 to some of the people and brands that you really respect. I would love if you 503 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:10.740 could give me a quick pass on your path just within media fly from sales 504 00:38:10.740 --> 00:38:17.460 director two. VP Marketing to CMO You know, VP Marketing to CMO obviously, is 505 00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:21.190 something that has happened to many, many people, and sales to marketing 506 00:38:21.190 --> 00:38:25.790 isn't crazy. But it's also not super super common, either. Like, what was 507 00:38:25.790 --> 00:38:28.910 that path like for you? Is that something you wanted to do for yourself? 508 00:38:28.910 --> 00:38:32.850 Was that something that business demanded? How did that go for? You know, 509 00:38:32.850 --> 00:38:35.900 it was something the business demanded. Before I answer that, Can I touch on 510 00:38:35.900 --> 00:38:40.460 one very pleased last thing regarding the mind of people, which I think is 511 00:38:40.460 --> 00:38:46.040 important is is transparency. So in communication. So and this is a little 512 00:38:46.040 --> 00:38:49.950 unusual in this, in the sense that the media fly for all our acquisitions. 513 00:38:49.950 --> 00:38:53.470 We've been very open with employees on both sides before the acquisition was 514 00:38:53.470 --> 00:38:58.170 announced, and I know that's very unusual, right? In many cases, that's 515 00:38:58.170 --> 00:39:02.700 kept under wraps. Not not not not in our case. We we start talking to 516 00:39:02.700 --> 00:39:06.110 employees. Probably like two months, or maybe not too much like a month before 517 00:39:06.110 --> 00:39:09.270 the deal. We know the deal is going to happen, and we share a lot of 518 00:39:09.270 --> 00:39:13.900 information. And so there's definitely not keeping them in the dark. Makes a 519 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:17.820 big, big difference. And so there's there's regular like town halls once a 520 00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:20.840 week. When we talk about this, the evolution, what we see happening, and 521 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:23.560 then this is what it's going to be announced and then we have town halls 522 00:39:23.560 --> 00:39:29.350 after. So the transparency has been hugely effective for us, and that's 523 00:39:29.350 --> 00:39:33.470 very much that's all about our CEO. I mean, that's how he does business. He 524 00:39:33.470 --> 00:39:38.270 over communicates, and I have a lot of respect, for I love because that's a 525 00:39:38.270 --> 00:39:42.090 give respect, get respect. That shows a great deal of trust and respect for all 526 00:39:42.090 --> 00:39:45.460 the people involved. I love it. It's what been one of my I don't know where 527 00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:50.250 I picked it up, but I've always had this approach of share as much as you 528 00:39:50.250 --> 00:39:54.240 can as early as you can, obviously, with some prudence, obviously with some 529 00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:58.350 editorial judgment. But the less anything is a surprise to anyone. The 530 00:39:58.350 --> 00:40:02.090 better off. You are in specific to what you just said. Your CEO is 531 00:40:02.090 --> 00:40:06.940 demonstrating respect for all of the people which makes Is it her or him? 532 00:40:07.810 --> 00:40:13.900 It's him. Makes him worthy of respect as well. And you're a question about my 533 00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:22.200 transition. So, yes, it was sudden. It happened in 48 hours. So, you know, I 534 00:40:22.200 --> 00:40:27.380 came from the agency, were advertising interesting media agencies for over 20 535 00:40:27.380 --> 00:40:33.480 years. So, uh, and decided I no longer wanted to do that and, uh, and took a 536 00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:38.990 nice six months break, didn't work, which was nice and started working on 537 00:40:38.990 --> 00:40:44.120 media fly in sales. And I view that as a career change, you know, you're 538 00:40:44.120 --> 00:40:47.560 always selling and then environment, even in agencies, but, you know, 539 00:40:47.560 --> 00:40:52.670 different calling more traditional selling, you know, full time focus on 540 00:40:52.670 --> 00:40:57.510 sales, and, uh, six months into the role, there was a CIA mother had been 541 00:40:57.510 --> 00:41:05.360 hired. It wasn't there that long left and essentially got a call from the 542 00:41:05.370 --> 00:41:11.520 head of sales and said, Hey, so I have I have an idea for you. And he says 543 00:41:11.520 --> 00:41:15.020 you're not supposed to know this, But son. So he's leaving, you know? Do you? 544 00:41:15.410 --> 00:41:18.880 He just, you know, he just started to hear he started building a team and we 545 00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:22.700 don't want to bring the momentum because it was at the point where Media 546 00:41:22.700 --> 00:41:26.040 Fly wanted to invest in marketing, wanted to build the marketing team and 547 00:41:26.040 --> 00:41:29.880 realized that they, in order to grow the way they needed to grow, they had 548 00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.840 been very much like product lead sales lead. And they needed a marketing 549 00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:36.480 machine, right? And so we don't want to build the momentum. Given your 550 00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:43.690 background, could you step in and pick up the reins from here temporarily? And 551 00:41:43.700 --> 00:41:47.130 I think this call was on a Thursday afternoon and by 552 00:41:48.710 --> 00:41:52.410 Monday, like Tuesday morning, I was I had basically walked away from sales 553 00:41:52.410 --> 00:41:55.530 and stepped into marketing, right? And I think there was a team of three 554 00:41:55.530 --> 00:41:59.050 people that had just been hired, so it was very much building the the the 555 00:41:59.050 --> 00:42:02.650 engine from the ground up. And I said to them I said, Fine, I'll do it. But 556 00:42:02.650 --> 00:42:05.940 you know, I'm excited about sales. I feel like you can really thrive in this, 557 00:42:05.950 --> 00:42:09.880 so I'll do it. But I definitely want this to be temporary. At least have the 558 00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:13.470 option to go back to sales. You know, in six months we had agreed this would 559 00:42:13.470 --> 00:42:17.610 be a six month gig, but really, what happened was three months into it. I 560 00:42:17.610 --> 00:42:20.720 loved what I was doing, and I love the work and start became permanent. In 561 00:42:20.720 --> 00:42:23.700 fact, there's a funny story about this and how it became permanent because it 562 00:42:23.700 --> 00:42:28.140 was also in the board meeting. And it was my first board meeting, and the CEO 563 00:42:28.140 --> 00:42:33.310 made a comment to. And that's why we you know, that's why we've taken Isabel 564 00:42:33.310 --> 00:42:37.670 away from cells to now run marketing permanently. And I remember looking at 565 00:42:37.670 --> 00:42:40.220 him and looking at the head of sales, and I looked at each other. We're going 566 00:42:40.600 --> 00:42:48.490 Okay, I guess we didn't know this one's perfect. So it was a That's hard to 567 00:42:48.490 --> 00:42:53.970 happen, you know. And I think that I even though six months with a short 568 00:42:53.970 --> 00:43:00.020 sentence sales, it was very helpful to me because I it gave me a good grasp of 569 00:43:00.020 --> 00:43:03.400 what I thought was working what wasn't working in terms of, you know, the 570 00:43:03.410 --> 00:43:06.440 proverbial sales and marketing alignment. And, you know, there was 571 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.150 very little self support from the marketing side because there was no 572 00:43:09.150 --> 00:43:11.830 marketing. I mean, who are you going to align with when there's nobody there to 573 00:43:11.830 --> 00:43:17.480 align with? Right? And so So there was a lot of work to be done, and and it's 574 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:21.730 been, you know, it's been a wild ride. Uh, and then I was promoted to. Six 575 00:43:21.730 --> 00:43:24.880 months later, I was given the VP of marketing title, and a year later I was 576 00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:29.000 from its, you know, So that's that's the trajectory. Awesome. I love it just 577 00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:32.500 stepping into the circumstance, finding that it is a good fit for you getting 578 00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:37.690 the buy in from other people. And here you are. It all makes sense in 579 00:43:37.690 --> 00:43:41.920 hindsight, but you would not have predicted it. Absolutely not. So I 580 00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:46.160 thought I was done with marketing and advertising. But what I hadn't factored 581 00:43:46.160 --> 00:43:52.430 in was that it's I'm a builder I like. And throughout my career I've been 582 00:43:52.430 --> 00:43:58.740 brought in two build teams, build global teams, build new processes, you 583 00:43:58.740 --> 00:44:02.480 know, and so on. And so this was perfect for me. I just didn't know I 584 00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:06.040 hadn't connected the dots, You know, I was just thrown into this situation, 585 00:44:06.040 --> 00:44:10.490 but I loved it because I got to build a house from the ground up, and that's 586 00:44:10.490 --> 00:44:14.570 what I love doing and then being on the client side, right? So remember, I'm 587 00:44:14.570 --> 00:44:18.810 also coming from the client service side of things, and so being in house 588 00:44:19.190 --> 00:44:26.070 was very, very different, and it was surprisingly rewarding. Right, because 589 00:44:26.070 --> 00:44:29.830 you have the direct line of sight into the business impact that you're 590 00:44:29.830 --> 00:44:33.940 creating. It's your baby. You have more influence. I mean, all those things 591 00:44:33.940 --> 00:44:37.760 that you don't necessarily have when you're at an agency. And so I had no, I 592 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:42.310 also had not factored in, so it was a a very pleasant surprise. It has 593 00:44:42.790 --> 00:44:46.600 completely exist. Role has completely exceeded my expectations. It's been 594 00:44:47.090 --> 00:44:51.220 it's been It's been a wild ride in a good way. Awesome. That's so good. 595 00:44:51.220 --> 00:44:55.410 Thank you for sharing that. If you are listening to this show and it's been a 596 00:44:55.410 --> 00:44:59.780 really good conversation and not one of our shorter ones, then you might like 597 00:44:59.780 --> 00:45:03.550 some of the other episodes that we have. We've spoken with a number of CEOs on 598 00:45:03.550 --> 00:45:08.030 the show again, we're typically talking marketing sales and CS typically 599 00:45:08.030 --> 00:45:12.160 leaders, but we also go outside those bounds periodically. But some of the 600 00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:16.250 CMOs we've had on recently, we had Ed Brilliant from a primo. We had Cory 601 00:45:16.250 --> 00:45:20.920 McCarthy from socio and events app that is figuring out how to make the pivot 602 00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:24.660 with and for their customers to virtual events and hybrid events. Of course. 603 00:45:24.660 --> 00:45:29.420 Steve Facinelli, my friend, teammate and co author here at Bom Bom Samantha 604 00:45:29.420 --> 00:45:33.330 Stone at the Marketing Advisory Network. We've had a number of CMOS on the show, 605 00:45:33.490 --> 00:45:36.710 and if you want to check any of those episodes out, you can just scroll 606 00:45:36.710 --> 00:45:40.900 through them at bom bom dot com slash podcast. If you go to that page, can 607 00:45:40.900 --> 00:45:43.700 click the Seymour episodes and just kind of scroll through them and see 608 00:45:43.700 --> 00:45:46.210 some of them. Or, you know, you can check out the customer experience 609 00:45:46.210 --> 00:45:51.810 podcast in Apple Podcast or iTunes and Spotify. Google play Google podcasts 610 00:45:51.810 --> 00:45:55.920 wherever you listen, and there are a number of other episodes you'll enjoy 611 00:45:55.930 --> 00:46:01.210 as I've enjoyed this one with you, Isabel. And so before I let you go, I 612 00:46:01.210 --> 00:46:05.250 would love to give you a few opportunities. The first one is to give 613 00:46:05.250 --> 00:46:09.640 a thanks or mention to someone who's had a very positive impact on your life 614 00:46:09.640 --> 00:46:14.130 for your career. So this one is going to have to go to Mark Strong, who will 615 00:46:14.130 --> 00:46:19.070 not be listening to the podcast, I'm sure. Fantastic team leader Back in my 616 00:46:19.070 --> 00:46:22.990 agency days when I was at my Can Erickson in New York, it's one of the 617 00:46:22.990 --> 00:46:29.210 places where I stayed the longest. The dream Boss, What can I say? Strategic. 618 00:46:29.680 --> 00:46:35.470 You know, strategy, project management, people leadership, you know everything 619 00:46:35.470 --> 00:46:40.330 you want. I mean, it's it's really someone I learned a lot from directly 620 00:46:40.330 --> 00:46:45.230 as well as by osmosis. Just how I saw him manage our team and, uh, definitely 621 00:46:45.230 --> 00:46:49.370 someone I look up to. And I still talk to occasionally. And he's now. He's now 622 00:46:49.370 --> 00:46:53.240 a coach, actually an executive coach for good reason. You should be coaching 623 00:46:53.240 --> 00:46:57.530 all of us. It sounds like you've carried some of that experience into 624 00:46:57.530 --> 00:47:00.180 your role, and I'm sure it's part of what's made me successful here in Media 625 00:47:00.180 --> 00:47:04.090 Fly. I. I feel that way. I definitely feel like like I said, I've I've 626 00:47:04.090 --> 00:47:08.980 learned a lot from him and the brands that standing up for a great customer 627 00:47:08.980 --> 00:47:13.060 experience, I'm gonna say like a you know, and this one also goes back to my 628 00:47:13.060 --> 00:47:17.560 agency days. I mean, I like to say I've graduated from Ikea furniture, which I 629 00:47:17.560 --> 00:47:21.910 have in some ways. But, you know, on occasion I go to their store and I'm 630 00:47:21.910 --> 00:47:25.900 reminded, you know, it's just that store experience and the online 631 00:47:25.900 --> 00:47:30.020 experience, everything about the consistency that we talked about, right? 632 00:47:30.020 --> 00:47:34.250 And they were my first client when I first got into advertising. And so I 633 00:47:34.250 --> 00:47:37.560 also remember I have fun memories of working with them. It was one of my 634 00:47:37.560 --> 00:47:43.210 best clients, phenomenal corporate values, and they live by them. And so 635 00:47:43.210 --> 00:47:44.100 it's a 636 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:50.010 you know, they delighted me in many ways back to the my definition of 637 00:47:50.010 --> 00:47:53.900 customer experience. I'm still still delighted by them. I know it's a bit to 638 00:47:53.900 --> 00:48:00.170 see Brand, but no, it's good we get. We get all kinds of opportunities, um, 639 00:48:00.170 --> 00:48:05.570 answers to that question from large to small. And, uh, the most fun thing to 640 00:48:05.570 --> 00:48:09.640 me about the I key experience is kind of the co creation element, right? Like 641 00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:13.660 you see everything all put together, but then you have to go kind of find it 642 00:48:13.660 --> 00:48:18.110 and carted around and, you know, get in line and figure out how to fit it in 643 00:48:18.110 --> 00:48:22.070 your car. There's a sense there's a sense of achievement. Totally. Yeah, 644 00:48:22.070 --> 00:48:25.320 there's like you are invested in in a different way than you are with other 645 00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:28.790 things. It's really fun I haven't done in a long time, but I I've done it many 646 00:48:28.790 --> 00:48:33.530 times. Uh, and I enjoyed the experience very much. Isabelle. If someone has 647 00:48:33.540 --> 00:48:37.070 gotten this far, I know that they really enjoyed your stories, your 648 00:48:37.080 --> 00:48:40.920 insights, your experience and the way that you share them with us here. If 649 00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:44.050 someone wants to follow up on the conversation, they want to learn more 650 00:48:44.050 --> 00:48:47.920 about you or about media fly where some places you might send people. So link 651 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:53.320 in, Uh, you know my name, my profile. That's the best place to find me easily. 652 00:48:53.330 --> 00:48:58.600 I will say Check out media fly dot com in our website, but also go to evolve 653 00:48:58.600 --> 00:49:03.280 selling dot com. So that's the evolved Selling Institute, which is media fly 654 00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:10.330 start leadership head. And it's a community of peers around sales 655 00:49:10.330 --> 00:49:14.640 enablement selling more effectively sales and marketing alignment all those 656 00:49:14.640 --> 00:49:19.950 great topics. So we have we host our own podcast there. There's a wealth of 657 00:49:19.950 --> 00:49:24.750 content, so that's That's a great website as well. To visit Awesome. 658 00:49:24.750 --> 00:49:28.110 Thank you for that. And for folks who are listening. I link all those things 659 00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:32.490 up at bom bom dot com slash podcast. When we do a short right up on this 660 00:49:32.490 --> 00:49:35.090 conversation, we dropped some video clips in there to bring the 661 00:49:35.090 --> 00:49:39.540 conversation to life. If you would like to listen on an open Web page, we do 662 00:49:39.540 --> 00:49:43.610 embed all the audio there, too. And so, uh, if you missed any of that stuff, 663 00:49:43.610 --> 00:49:47.940 you can either bounce back in your player, uh, Isabelle Papoulias on 664 00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:51.940 LinkedIn and Evolve, selling dot com media fly dot com And, of course, again, 665 00:49:51.940 --> 00:49:56.540 I'll have all those links at bomb bomb dot com slash podcast. Isabelle. Thank 666 00:49:56.540 --> 00:49:59.960 you so much for your time and your insights. I really enjoyed it. Thank 667 00:49:59.960 --> 00:50:05.390 you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Today's episode is sponsored by 668 00:50:05.390 --> 00:50:10.280 LinkedIn. Did you know over 62 million decision makers are on LinkedIn? It's 669 00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:14.790 the reason why I and a ton of other B two B marketers spend hours marketing 670 00:50:14.790 --> 00:50:18.920 on LinkedIn every week. In fact, recently, I just pulled a report that 671 00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:23.330 informed our team at Sweet Fish that Lincoln had produced three times the 672 00:50:23.330 --> 00:50:27.530 amount of new customers in the last 90 days, Then the next lead source three 673 00:50:27.530 --> 00:50:32.940 times. Guys, it was a lot. There is not a better platform to research your key 674 00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:36.830 accounts. Find the exact people you want to connect with and actually 675 00:50:36.830 --> 00:50:42.320 engage them in a variety of meaningful ways. Do business where business is 676 00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:47.220 done. Get a $100 advertising credit toward your first Lincoln campaign. 677 00:50:47.230 --> 00:50:54.600 Visit linkedin dot com slash GDP growth linkedin dot com slash BBB Growth terms 678 00:50:54.600 --> 00:51:00.300 and conditions apply Before I send you off into the rest of your day, I want 679 00:51:00.300 --> 00:51:05.260 to echo one of the most important ideas that Isabel shared their mind. The 680 00:51:05.260 --> 00:51:10.520 people, if we can mind the people, pay attention to their needs, their wants, 681 00:51:10.530 --> 00:51:15.050 understand where they are, meeting them there and moving them to a better place. 682 00:51:15.060 --> 00:51:19.450 Our lives in our businesses will be so much better. Hey, if you want more 683 00:51:19.450 --> 00:51:24.510 conversations with CMOS and with VP sales and with heads of customer 684 00:51:24.510 --> 00:51:30.030 success and customer experience, search the customer experience podcast in your 685 00:51:30.030 --> 00:51:33.870 preferred player. You know you've got the right one when you see the orange 686 00:51:33.870 --> 00:51:38.790 tile the customer experience podcast. And if you want to bring those episodes 687 00:51:38.790 --> 00:51:43.900 to life with video clips, short write ups and more, visit bomb bomb dot com 688 00:51:43.910 --> 00:51:49.020 slash podcast. My name is Ethan Butte. I am your host, and I appreciate you 689 00:51:49.020 --> 00:51:52.690 listening to the C X Series here on B two b Growth 690 00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:58.690 Is your buyer at BP Marketer? If so, you should think about sponsoring this 691 00:51:58.690 --> 00:52:03.640 podcast. BDB growth gets downloaded over 130,000 times each month, and our 692 00:52:03.640 --> 00:52:07.460 listeners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting, send Logan 693 00:52:07.460 --> 00:52:10.270 and email Logan at sweet Fish media dot com.