Oct. 24, 2022

Operationalize Your Way to Success, with Michelle Tilton

In this episode, Benji talks to Michelle Tilton, the Vice President of Marketing at Gryphon.ai.
Discussed in this episode: - How to Operationalize Demand Creation- Marketing Accountability at Every Part of the Funnel- Using Data to Inform the Board...

In this episode, Benji talks to Michelle Tilton, the Vice President of Marketing at Gryphon.ai.
Discussed in this episode: - How to Operationalize Demand Creation- Marketing Accountability at Every Part of the Funnel- Using Data to Inform the Board Room
Sponsors:
If you’re hiring, you need Indeed. Sign up and get a $75 credit to sponsor your first job for better visibility, more applications and quicker hiring times. Stay in control with payment billing options, no long term contracts, pay for only what you need and pause spending at any time.*
Claim Your Credit
*Sponsored Job credit offers available only for new U.S. accounts posting a job that expires one year after account creation. Upon expiration of credits, users are charged based on their Sponsored Job budget. Terms, conditions, and quality standards apply.
Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:17.559 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B Growth Today. 2 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:21.359 On B two B Growth, I am joined by Michelle Tilton. She 3 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:26.160 is the VP of marketing over at Griffin AI and uh, Michelle is great 4 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:28.800 to get to chat with you today. Hey, Benji is super excited to 5 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:34.119 be here today. So I'm excited because we're gonna spend some time really discussing 6 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:39.439 the need and the power of operationalizing and marketing specifically and kind of just working 7 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:44.119 to measure to observe, systematize things so that hopefully we get you know, 8 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:48.640 better consistent results. I think that's that's the goal of everyone listening to this 9 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:53.640 podcast clearly. So you told me, you know before, that streamlining functions 10 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:57.119 and creating cohesion is like one of your main focuses. It's one of your 11 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.439 biggest passions. Tell me where that kind of started for you, Michelle, 12 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:03.000 What has made that something that really is? Like, Man, I care 13 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:07.120 a lot about this, So I think I think when you find your passion, 14 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:11.359 it's usually because it comes from a frustration of some problem that you can't 15 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:15.159 solve, right, And I think the biggest challenge has always been inefficiency. 16 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.159 So three and four people on a on a call or on a meeting about 17 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:23.200 the same topic, who really aren't all totally involved with that topic, but 18 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:26.799 inefficiency. So you can ask anybody who knows me, inefficiency is a pet 19 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.959 peeve of mine, right, And so I think this has sort of manifested 20 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:36.120 itself into the marketing arena where you start looking at departments, especially once in 21 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:40.920 in startup or early growth mode, where you typically do have a generalist or 22 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:46.480 one or two staff who are crossing each other continuously, which is necessary to 23 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.879 get the work done right. But as you grow that is no longer a 24 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:57.239 practice that leads to massive growth. So I think that being able to start 25 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:02.359 streamlining is such a big part of the growth an organization and and really empowers 26 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:06.519 certain staff to really hone in on what they're good at instead of being a 27 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:09.639 generalist. So I think both things are beneficial to both the organization and to 28 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:14.199 the team on anybody on the marketing team, whether it's marketing, products, 29 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:16.039 sales, you know, what have you. But I always say this, 30 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:20.560 they said that you can give a dollar to a million people or a million 31 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.560 dollars to one person, what's going to be the bigger impact. It's that 32 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:28.719 focused attention on on one area where you can make a huge impact and also 33 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.400 not be inefficient across the rest of the team. M hmm. That's good. 34 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.319 Okay. So I wonder like, as you've been on teams that expand 35 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.960 and you're working to in your mind is thinking like streamlined functionality, you're really 36 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:46.840 like wanting that focus. What have you seen be like the biggest hurdles, 37 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:52.840 the things that stand in the way, the roadblocks from that functionality. So 38 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.960 I think there's kind of two areas, right. It's one is from a 39 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.400 personnel standpoint, Right, you do typically have someone who is going to be 40 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:02.520 in a role who feels that that twinge of wait a minute, but I 41 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:08.840 used to do that right and overcoming that where you're empowering them to grow fully 42 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.879 into the role that they want to proceed within. So, for instance, 43 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.520 if you're a marketing generalist and you really love marketing operations, or if you 44 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:21.199 really love demand gen it's really tough to do all of those things well. 45 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:23.840 But if you can focus in on one of those two streamlined functions, man, 46 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.240 you have an opportunity to grow your career and to better contribute to the 47 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:30.599 ORG. So I think it's that first, and I've been through these two. 48 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:32.879 By the way, it's not it's not like I'm coming in from the 49 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.879 outside and saying do as I say, not as I do. I've been 50 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:38.280 through those before, and in the long run, it has been the best 51 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:43.000 thing that happened to me was being able to hone in on what you're really 52 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.199 passionate about and good at and giving up some of those tasks to some other 53 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.080 function that might either be better at it or might be more suited for it. 54 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.919 So I think that's one of them. I think the other thing is 55 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:59.039 really getting people to understand as a whole why it's important not just to streamline 56 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.280 into operational, but to get down to the metric level. So well, 57 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:05.080 I think we're gonna talk a little bit, probably more about metrics a bit 58 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:11.360 here, but I think empowering people to understand the value of metrics and this 59 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:17.240 and the repeatability of results necessary for your board, for your executive team, 60 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.120 so they can believe that whatever you do is going to be repeatable and they 61 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:25.720 can count on it month after month, quarter after quarter. Both of those 62 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.680 are really good. I could see there being like a fear in like a 63 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:30.959 marketing generalist perspective like, oh, don't take this out of like my hands 64 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:33.600 kind of and you're just like, especially as you grow, like there's just 65 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:38.759 necessity that comes like oh, we gotta switch where like who's doing this thing? 66 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:42.399 So that's I wonder. It's just kind of like a follow up rabbit 67 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.759 trail question here for a second. But as you think of that, how 68 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:50.079 do you have those kind of consistent conversations are like org, you know, 69 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:54.279 readjustments where you're like, oh, this is changing in our team. Is 70 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:58.240 it something that you in your mind are revisiting on like a consistent cadence or 71 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.560 is it something that's just like as needed. So typically you have to revisit 72 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.319 it because there's always that natural feeling of someone wanting to oh, you know, 73 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:08.279 I used to do that. I can help you out with that kind 74 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.439 of feeling, right, And so there does have to be consistent conversation to 75 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:14.759 say, you know what, I know you can do that, and I 76 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:16.319 appreciate that you can do that, and you've done it well in the past, 77 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.600 but you so many things on your plate right now. Let's really focus 78 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.519 on these functions and let's let this other person grow into their role with some 79 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:29.879 of these new functions. And and we'll work together to make that a really 80 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.199 smooth process. But I do think it does take a consistent conversation because I 81 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:38.800 do believe there's a lot of and I and historically know that there's been there's 82 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.120 always that feeling of a twins like, oh, let me hope I can 83 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.920 do that or I used to do that, so I definitely can help. 84 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.399 Well, you know the necessity of letting go a little bit, but to 85 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.839 know that it's for the greater good of both the company but also your future 86 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:55.360 growth. It's always got to come back to the employee also, right, 87 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:59.160 because because there are people and they want to grow and they want to advance 88 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.720 in their careers, it has to be beneficial to both sides. It might 89 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:06.319 be counterintuitive, but it Like I think one of the weird like upside down 90 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:11.319 ways of thinking is at a certain point, you being a busybody and marketing 91 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:12.839 and like you're being like, oh, I know how to do that. 92 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.480 I'll jump in you like you can see some like the elevator going up in 93 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.399 your career to a certain point, and then it hits like a cap where 94 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:24.560 you're like, oh, by being a busybody and like trying to be just 95 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.839 like doing everything, I actually limit myself from potential growth at a certain point. 96 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:32.279 So having that switch in your mind to go, Okay, I need 97 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.040 to do some things like really well and not feel like what I add to 98 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:40.959 the organization is just that I do everything That is such a hack And I 99 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:42.959 don't know if I would call it a hack, but like it's it's a 100 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.519 mentality shift. Does that make sense? You are a d percent spot on 101 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:50.040 it is in anybody that I've talked to you in their marketing career too, 102 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:55.360 who say I do I do X plus X plus X plus X plus x 103 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:57.639 and you're You're like, well, what do you want to do? That's 104 00:06:57.639 --> 00:06:59.839 always my first question is what do you want to do? What do you 105 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.800 yourself doing long term? Because we can then streamline you into the more strategic 106 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:09.240 thinking. And I think there's there's the biggest hurdle to overcome for most people 107 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.720 in their growth is they want to be strategic, right, they all want 108 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:17.680 to grow, but there is a big responsibility that comes with being strategic and 109 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:26.680 having to think through campaign's programs, the whole organization, marketing organization as a 110 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.759 whole. I think there's a year there. I mean it's a lot of 111 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:32.240 people will say I'm strategic, and you know, you you have to really 112 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:35.600 understand what that means. And if you can enable people to have a little 113 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:40.839 bit more time within their core function to come up for air and to think 114 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.639 through it at a much higher level, man, you will really start to 115 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:48.360 grow and they understand the power of that function within the whole work. And 116 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:53.439 I think strategic thinking is a big hot button for me because that's I think 117 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.199 that's the biggest key for someone to take that next step, is to be 118 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:00.800 able to think strategically interesting. Okay, so I want us to like, 119 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.040 essentially paint a picture. I want you to paint a picture for me of 120 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:11.040 what you feel like an organization that's operating at a excellent operational capacity would look 121 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.600 like like this is the ten out of ten would recommend like excellent operational organization? 122 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.399 What are they doing right? What are they getting right? In your 123 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.399 mind? Michelle, so I do. I'll caveat that by saying, there's 124 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.120 going to be certain size organizations that are going to have different functions because you 125 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.559 know, by the nature of the organ but I think certain things are fundamentally 126 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:37.519 similar. They're going to have systems in place that everybody is in tune with 127 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.840 what the schedule of the marketing ORGA is. They're going to know how many 128 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:46.600 days ahead of time that everybody needs to meet deadline. They're going to know 129 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.919 all of the metrics of the organization and why they're important, and what their 130 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.480 function contributes to those metrics, and where those metrics go. So I think, 131 00:08:54.799 --> 00:09:01.200 I think good communication from the leader to why things are important. It's 132 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:05.639 part of a really fundamentally sound organ I think understanding exactly what your swim lanes 133 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:11.080 are right, I think leaving no uncertainty. I think people get really uncomfortable 134 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.039 when they have uncertainty. And so if you can be really streamlined in your 135 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:18.639 communication about swim lanes, right here is everything in your swim lane. There 136 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:24.480 leaves no question for me about what I'm responsible for. And I believe operationally 137 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.639 that's super critical um having a plan right, knowing ahead of time what the 138 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:33.559 planet is so that you always can see ahead and what what the expectations are, 139 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:37.480 never having to question. So I believe a lot of in I think 140 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:41.360 having procedures and processes. I'm not a red tape person, please hear me 141 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.559 say, I do not believe in creating work for work's sake. But I 142 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:52.159 do believe there's important processes in place that needs to be followed and then reiterated 143 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.399 so that we don't lose sight of those processes because they're there for a reason. 144 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:03.879 Operationally, great handoff processes between groups right from creative to operations to the 145 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:09.559 various parties that need to be involved. So fantastic communication and handoff processes, 146 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.000 I think, you know, I gosh, I could probably go on and 147 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:15.320 on on that one for for a long time, but I believe a lot 148 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:20.039 of it stems around really solid planning and really solid communication between the between the 149 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.559 individual members of that group. What when you say planning, like, is 150 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.559 there a couple of things that you feel like you need to be over communicated 151 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:31.799 or anything you just want to like double down on real quicklyre the importance of 152 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:37.639 meeting deadlines and the importance of everybody working towards those deadlines so you're not leaving 153 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.559 a teammate in the whole. I think doubling down on ownership of your individual 154 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:43.759 role. I would double down on that. I would probably triple down on 155 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.519 that actually empowering people to own the role that they've got so that they know 156 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.559 that that what they do is an important part of that team, and when 157 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.120 they make that handoff to their team member, that team member has another port 158 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:01.080 important part to having that completed ownership. I would double on ownership all day. 159 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.879 Feel empowered to own your world and create and as as if you could 160 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.279 be any function. Right, I'm writing a blog post on that own that 161 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:15.480 to its entirety, on the process, own the deadline, on the copy. 162 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.279 Of course there's going to be help along the way, but ownership, 163 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:20.600 to me is a big piece of that. Yeah, and the onboarding process. 164 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.960 I find that that's like such an important thing is reiterating and then obviously 165 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.720 you're gonna also realize, like if you have ownership based on how whoever's above 166 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.799 you like kind of manages and reiterates it, because there can be that like 167 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.440 weird, I know that this is on my plate, but like how much 168 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:41.720 they do I actually have? And there's that weird push and pull in that 169 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.919 tension. So reiterating like, hey, own this thing, like this is 170 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.159 why you were hired and we want you to really just take control. And 171 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:52.639 then obviously if there's like a you're working in a team context, like allowing 172 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.320 for the spaces to be created. But I really like that you highlighted that 173 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:01.759 we had talked before on just like demand and and creating it and capturing it. 174 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:03.200 So I want to go there for a second, because that's a marketing 175 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:09.679 job ultimately, So as I think of operationalizing demand, a lot of that 176 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.399 for you and for your team has come down to being excellent around intent data 177 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:18.360 and like personalizing outbound. So can we go to just some strategy there and 178 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:20.919 like the success that you're seeing, would you talk to us about that? 179 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.960 Sure? So intent data a lot of I've been at companies before who we 180 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.440 have intent data. Well, that's great, how are you using it? 181 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:31.799 And a lot of times it's tough. It's tough. You have lists or 182 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.879 you have platforms where you go and you can pull some data, but operationalizing 183 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.759 intent data is really difficult. And I'm not going to take ownership over this. 184 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:43.840 The team that I came into, you know, prior to me coming 185 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.919 to Griffin, began this process and we have run with it full force and 186 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:52.919 continue to enforce it. But operationalizing all of the intent data to feedback into 187 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:58.120 our CRM and show up as a list within out in outbound outreach a section 188 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:03.559 of our CRM has been one of the most interesting ways that I've ever seen 189 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.480 any company do it, but also most effective because then when we do the 190 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:13.200 handoff to our BDR organization for outreach, they not only know which the intent 191 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:18.279 data leads are, but they also know exactly what intent they're showing, which 192 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.000 leads to what we what you just talked about, which is personalized outbound. 193 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:24.600 So let's just say I've got seven categories of intent, and I've got all 194 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.240 these companies showing up in different categories. I know exactly what they were searching 195 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:33.519 for, even if they're searching for multiple categories. Now I have a very 196 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:37.440 powerful Apple message I can send because I have an idea of what they're looking 197 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.320 for. So that's been wildly successful for our organization. And we we reiterated 198 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.360 again a lot of training, a lot of a lot of just reiteration of 199 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:52.039 the importance and we see consistent pipeline generation from intent data because of it. 200 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.279 Okay, so tell me where if I if I get this wrong at all, 201 00:13:54.279 --> 00:14:00.960 But essentially intent data fed back into the CRM. CRM isbviously accessible by 202 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:05.960 b DR team and they're they're seeing that directly and the nets informing them and 203 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.480 also what you guys are are doing with targeting and marketing messaging. Yep, 204 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.200 you got it. So we feed it directly into the serrum. From a 205 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.080 super tactical standpoint, we feed the data directly into the CRM. The CRM 206 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.679 then segments the data based on our BDR territory so they only see what they 207 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.360 are most concerned about. They'll put the leads into a cadence that we have 208 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.879 already set up for different different intent data topics as well as in our cadences 209 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:37.039 include a bound calling so it's all part of the entire the entire wheel. 210 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.440 And our marketing team also then feeds data into digital campaigns from intent because there's 211 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:46.679 a lot of connector platforms into LinkedIn and digital platforms, so we're providing air 212 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:50.799 cover at the same time through intent campaigns and the digital arena while they're making 213 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.720 these personalized outbound messages happen. And so there has just been such a consistent 214 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:01.279 quality of meetings and s q l s and ultimately pipeline being built because of 215 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.559 this whole engine that surrounds intent data. B two B growth will be right 216 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:16.759 back. There has just been such a consistent quality of meetings and s QL 217 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.600 s and ultimately pipeline being built because of this whole engine that surrounds intent data. 218 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.480 Interesting okay, So to that end, and just like to give us 219 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.360 an idea, like what what's the RM do? You guys use the Salesforce 220 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.360 so pretty pretty stream Salesforce, and then we use HubSpot to manage, you 221 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.279 know, some of our workflows for marketing. Also cool. Sometimes you hear 222 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.879 people deciding between Salesforce and HubSpot. I like that you're an example of using 223 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:48.279 both. That's all two different functions the way we use it, and salesforces 224 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.559 certainly our source of truth, but HubSpot sort of our marketing hub. And 225 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.960 good news is our Salesforce and our HubSpot instances talk real well to each other. 226 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:03.080 So there's so we're not we're not experiencing any of those challenges. Good 227 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.080 Okay. So one piece of this that I always want to like harp on 228 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.559 or dig into a little bit is that that personalized outbound piece, because I 229 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.360 think there's a lot of people that claim personalized outbound to some extent, but 230 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:21.840 like, how you actually ensure that it's not robotic feeling or like, I 231 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.200 don't know that there's something to a human touch. There's something to like, 232 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.879 oh, actually meeting someone sort of like where they are with that. So 233 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.320 how are you guys doing that? Like I guess essentially my question is around 234 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.559 quality control there, so quality control for outbound messages through the marketing teams such 235 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.679 as our cadences. So we do marketing through houp Spout, which is more 236 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:45.879 highlight you'll you'll see webinars, you know, more traditional marketing outreach ebooks, 237 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:51.320 things of that nature, and then you'll see much more personalized messaging through our 238 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:55.759 cadence tool. Right, So we have dozens of different cadences that marketing actually 239 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:59.720 writes with help from the BDR team because they're so they're good and they're so 240 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.919 close to the prospects, so we get a lot of input, They give 241 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.000 us a lot of feedback. We tweaked the message along the way, but 242 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.119 essentially for quality control purposes, marketing does own that function and we make sure 243 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.799 that you know, the messaging is on bring it on point and on what 244 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:18.599 we want to say, but also it's personalized enough where we understand what they 245 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:23.480 were interested in and what people like them are interested in. So if they 246 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.000 come in for a webinar about conversation intelligence for instance, which is you know, 247 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.720 a key offering of ours. They probably aren't as concerned about our compliance 248 00:17:30.759 --> 00:17:34.200 solution, so you know, we're streamlining and making sure that we're kind of 249 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:38.039 meeting them with what they're interested in. But furthermore, because all of our 250 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:41.960 outbound outreach includes outbound phone calls and and LinkedIn message, you know, more 251 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:48.640 traditional mix, we've done a ton of training on personas and industries so that 252 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.279 not only do they know what the person is interested in, but they know 253 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:55.880 what industry and what persona is reaching out so that that conversation that a BDR 254 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.759 has can be much more customized with that human touch. As you mentioned, 255 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.119 it's always a work in progress, so you know, there's always tweaks and 256 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.799 changes that we find that we have to make as you know, as things 257 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.000 change, as it gets harder to connect with people working from home, so 258 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:15.519 tweaks along the way. But we are definitely mixing the sort of personalized outreach 259 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:21.279 at scale and more personalized touch through direct outbound outreach. Okay, so that 260 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.960 speaks to like the operationalizing demand side of things. I know, another area 261 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.759 that you have intentionally tried to improve is just like pushing out reporting. So 262 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.599 use the data to inform what you do as a department and what you discuss 263 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.200 in the boardroom as well. So up, what do you prioritize in those 264 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.519 meetings, like how do you essentially market internally to keep the team on track 265 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.279 and the board engaged excited about the vision? Sure, So I am the 266 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:53.640 data geek and that is an understatement. I a little embarrassing in some ways, 267 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:59.160 but you can find so much value in data. And when I first 268 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.680 came on board again, you know, growing department and such, we did 269 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:04.759 a lot of the blocking and tackling, putting things in place like ut M 270 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:10.200 codes on every single campaign form fills that we know uniquely belong to not only 271 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.519 this white paper, but this channel in this month, right, So we've 272 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.920 gotten really really good at understanding where all of these leads are coming from. 273 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.000 So that was my biggest that was and it sounds super simple, but collecting 274 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.799 that data over time and then making it valuable to the ORC takes a really 275 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.200 long time because you need the volume of data so you can see what's what's 276 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.480 working. The one thing to you that I would know is marketing. There's 277 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.200 always been this sort of marketing kicks over the leads to sales or the b 278 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.200 d art org and we say goodbye to the leads, and we say, 279 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.079 now it's your turn. Let's hope for the best. That is no longer 280 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.200 the case in any marketing department at this point. It is not valuable for 281 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.480 anybody to say, here are the leads. What's happening to the leads? 282 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.400 Which leads are converting all the way through the sales funnel? Which leads are 283 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.960 getting to the beginning of the funnel and dropping out of the funnel. Is 284 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.440 there a pattern involved? There? Is there a pattern based on channel? 285 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.640 Is there a pattern based on content? Is there a pattern based on the 286 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:11.079 industry or persona or targeting? So honing in on that so tightly to be 287 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.440 able to provide just not only visibility of value, but also proving that the 288 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.359 dollars you're spending as a as a departmental leader are going to the right areas. 289 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.720 Uh, those are all and it takes a long time to get there, 290 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.720 but those are critical. You I never want to go into a meeting 291 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.960 inside I'm not sure. Well, then what are you spending your money on? 292 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.200 If you're not sure? Which for a long time marketing was going into 293 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.200 meetings going I'm not sure. Which Also, this is the evolution of being 294 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.200 able to track some of this and like get data around it. So it 295 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.200 makes sense the evolution that has happened. But we are in a space now 296 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:47.599 where you can prove the functionality and you can have the conversations show the data. 297 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.440 So I like that, And I think the way you had put it 298 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.519 on our our call before this actual recording, you had said that we need 299 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.400 accountability at every part of the funnel, and then you use this imagery which 300 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.079 I really like, of like tossing the lead over the fence just being like 301 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:06.440 fingers crop hope they land like which I think obviously we don't. We don't 302 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:08.039 want to be in organizations like that. We don't want to do marketing that 303 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:12.519 way because that's how marketing gets a bad rep So I guess to me around 304 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.200 the accountability piece, the follow up question there would be like, how have 305 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.319 you guys done accountability? Well, like what can we learn from that, 306 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.519 like refusing to just toss the leads over the fence and hoping they land. 307 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.079 So looking at yourself in the mirror, right, I've not I've never in 308 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.640 my whole life been a person who's moves in the mirror have been like, 309 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.200 not my fault. I would always blame myself before blaming outside. So I 310 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.839 take I sort of take that approach in the marketing arena too. I've been 311 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.480 at different organizations where the you know, the leads are garbage, the leads 312 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.960 are garbage. You have this argument, right, Um, we've not, 313 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.799 by the way, this is this is an organ where we've never really had 314 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:56.319 that issue because we're so tightly aligned with the BDR team and we get really 315 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.640 good feedback from that. That's huge, but interesting to know. It's pretty 316 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.519 black and white when you look at the data and our internal team on the 317 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.319 marketing side looks at that data religiously, and we get it monthly. We 318 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.000 know by campaign. I mean we have it down to such a you could 319 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.519 spend hours in the data, and what it enables us to do is pull 320 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.440 back in certain areas and pivot quickly. For instance, if a particular channel 321 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:25.119 has been successful for us, but this particular content piece didn't perform so well, 322 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.599 we might want to reevaluate that channel, but maybe with a different piece 323 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.559 of content. We want to look at a lot of different things, so 324 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.400 we are holding ourselves, our team accountable. We have weekly meetings with the 325 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.279 team, but then we have specific monthly meetings to look at the calendar and 326 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.440 things we might be able to tweak based on some of the metrics that we're 327 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.160 seeing. Where do we want to dump more dollars? Like this channel has 328 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.200 been high performing for six months, we need to move away from this to 329 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.920 pull back from this channel a little bit, you know, move to this 330 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.559 channel. We try to give ourselves the ability to pivot from a financial standpoint 331 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.160 through our budget also in certain areas. Obviously you don't want to pivot every 332 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:07.960 every month because that becomes difficult for everyone. But I think we're very performance 333 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.160 driven our department, so we want to know what's working, and we want 334 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.480 to do more of what's working and not for us. By the way, 335 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:18.920 our biggest joy is when deals close. Right, It's not about marketing got 336 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.559 more leads this month, It's about the or closed more business this month. 337 00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:26.720 And I think it's seeing that bigger picture and having everybody rally around that bigger 338 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:32.680 picture. It's really good. I think where I want us to start to 339 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:37.000 wrap up today is just to go okay, if I'm thinking through operationalizing I'm 340 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:42.680 thinking through streamlining functionality here. We've talked about data, some we've talked about 341 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:48.000 even just like ownership. You know, what would be your your challenge to 342 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:51.839 those listening to this B two B growth episode, is there like a little 343 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:55.759 mindset shift or something, because obviously our organizations are different, but this is 344 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.920 something that as marketing leaders were all thinking about. We're all wanting to continue 345 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:03.680 to improve and streamline. So anything that you would give us almost as like 346 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.880 a I don't want to say a homework assignment because then people won't want to 347 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.240 do it. But you get what I'm saying, that that shift that maybe 348 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:15.000 we could make understand what's successful and what's not truly understand, don't use a 349 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.839 gut field. And I know a lot of marketers are much better at this 350 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.640 than we used to be. Right really understand what's not working and then own 351 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.519 it and be okay with it because failure is not always a bad thing as 352 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.119 a learning experience. So I think so many marketers are afraid to put their 353 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:34.000 metrics out there for a broader vision because they're going to be scrutinized, questioned, 354 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:38.200 maybe maybe doubted a little bit about decision making. I think you have 355 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:41.319 to own that, understand it, and have a plan to get ahead of 356 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.799 it. And if you don't want to look it in the face, right, 357 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:47.119 then you don't want to acknowledge that, Wow, I've been spending money 358 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:51.839 in this channel and I probably shouldn't be much longer. Ignoring that is not 359 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.839 going to make that go away, but getting ahead of those challenges. So 360 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:59.400 looking those things in the face, getting ahead of it, and and truly 361 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.359 looking at yourself and saying, okay, we really need to make a change 362 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.799 here, and don't be afraid of it. Right. So many people I 363 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.400 think are so afraid of failure or perception that they're not willing to look at 364 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:12.680 something that might be uncomfortable. Last question here, it's just a follow up 365 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:17.200 on that for you personally in your career. So like, as you thought 366 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.519 through, okay, I need to just be upfront, get ahead of it, 367 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:23.039 are you coming in that way, just going like okay, here's where 368 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:26.839 we're in. Establishing that sort of like honesty transparency early on, and that's 369 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.519 what has given you success over time, Because I think people would come in 370 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.599 and they'd be like, I need to gauge sort of where where marketing fits 371 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.880 in the organization, and like, so there's this want to just prove yourself 372 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.440 early on instead of going, hey, here's what I walked into, and 373 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.119 like, this is where we're at, and this is what we're tracking going 374 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:45.920 forward. We're getting data on all of this, Like I just wonder what 375 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.200 that's looked like for you personally. So I definitely think I'm never one to 376 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.960 walk into a room and claim to know everything. I think there's a good 377 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.440 period of time necessary to learn and understand why things have been done a certain 378 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:03.000 way, because I've I've been through many, you know, different different places 379 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.480 where we've had new staff come on board, or someone who's had a marketing 380 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.960 background who's coming to a different role and who wants to give advice immediately upon 381 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:11.720 coming in, and it's all welcomed. By the way. I am not 382 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:18.319 one who thinks that outside advice is not valuable. It absolutely is. But 383 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:22.759 I think it's important for those who are new to come in and understand first 384 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.359 and truly under it, because there there could very well be a good reason 385 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.119 something has been done a certain way that you just don't know about. Sometimes 386 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:30.759 there's no good reason, and then you can find you know, fundamentally, 387 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.839 make that change, So I think it's important. But in the same time, 388 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.359 you still have to make progress moving forward. You can't just sit back 389 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:38.519 and wait in a new role three to six months and go, well, 390 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.640 let's see what happens. So there's a balance there, right, But I 391 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:48.359 do believe without guns blazing, understanding first where things are at, making incremental 392 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:51.240 changes, and then when you fully understand, you can start making some of 393 00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:53.960 the bigger changes. That's great. Well, this has been a really good 394 00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:59.319 conversation I think operationalize and something that we're all thinking of as marketing leaders, 395 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.480 and so there's been really helpful for those that want to stay connected to you, 396 00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:07.599 Michelle, as well as find out more about Griffin AI. Can you 397 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:10.200 just tell us where we can do that and then maybe talk a little bit 398 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.599 about about what you guys are doing at Griffin AI. Sure, so me 399 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:17.359 personally. You can definitely find me on LinkedIn, you can email me certainly. 400 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:19.480 UM tilting at Griffin doat AI same website. By the way, so 401 00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.000 I won't repeat that. We have a lot of text people on this call, 402 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:29.720 but UM Griffin is an incredible organization that cut its teeth in the compliance 403 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:33.799 business several years ago. We're still a huge player in that space, and 404 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.079 we have pretty amazing technology here through Tier one Telefony. I won't get into 405 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:42.319 the details on that, but it's enabled us to expand our offering to a 406 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.559 conversation intelligence and real time guided coaching that's powered by AI, and so basically 407 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:53.519 we kind of provide this really interesting view to sales leaders of what's going on 408 00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:59.799 in the organization from a conversation standpoint, as well as providing real time coaching 409 00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:03.000 on live call to you know, give the reps a little extra support when 410 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:08.240 certain questions come up or objections happen where maybe a newer rep, even a 411 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:14.720 tenured rep might benefit from that instant response. So those are a two areas 412 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.000 of growth that have been incredible for us, and we're plowing ahead very quickly 413 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:22.799 into the next couple of years with that technology. I love it. Well. 414 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.319 This has been a really fun conversation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. 415 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.799 Thanks for stopping by h B two B Growth. It's been a pleasure 416 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:32.799 to get to chat with you. Michelle. Yeah, Benji, thanks so 417 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.720 much for having me. Really appreciate it. For everyone listening. If you 418 00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:40.960 are new to the podcast and you haven't yet, followed the show. Do 419 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.079 that so that you never miss an episode. We're trying to create content here 420 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.920 that will fuel your growth and get you thinking in new innovative ways. So 421 00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:52.799 we would love for you to follow the show and then you can connect with 422 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.559 me over on LinkedIn just search Benji Block Over there. I'm talking about marketing, 423 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:02.440 business life and posting consistently and also commenting, looking for community and want 424 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:04.359 to stay up to date with everything happening in B two B marketing. So 425 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:07.799 connect with me over there, keep doing work that matters. We'll be back 426 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:25.319 real soon with another episode. If you enjoy today's show, hit subscribe for 427 00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.119 more marketing goodness. And if you really enjoy today's show, take a second 428 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.200 to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right 429 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.480 now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting 430 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:40.519 it to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening, and 431 00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.319 thanks for sharing.