Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.240 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.120 Welcome in to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block. 3 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:25.280 Today I am joined by Melissa Rosenthal. She is the chief creative officer at 4 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:28.199 Click up. Were thrilled to have her here. Melissa, welcome to the 5 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:30.679 show. Thanks so much for having you. Then, Gee, excited to 6 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:35.159 be here. Yes, so I got to say right up top, congratulations. 7 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:39.600 Click up was on Forbes list of America's best start up employers. I 8 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:43.719 think that came out yesterday, so congratulations there. Thank you. Yeah, 9 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:48.000 it's awesome. Just kind of a testament to to our culture and what we've 10 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:50.920 been able to grow over the past year. So yeah, pretty exciting for 11 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:55.679 us. So you have quite the resume. A summer going to be familiar, 12 00:00:55.719 --> 00:01:00.880 but I'll list probably two key points, split time between B Toc and 13 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.799 be to be. Two notable stops would be where you are now, click 14 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.879 up, and then buzzfeed is on the list as well. Give me one 15 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.079 thing about your current role, Melissa, that is maybe most exciting to you 16 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:15.799 right now. It's been exciting from day one. I would say the most 17 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:19.159 exciting thing when I started was the fact that I felt that the grass was 18 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.879 so green for be to be and being able to bring like brand and personality 19 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:27.480 to that. And the most exciting thing about my role right now is just 20 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:30.400 the team that we have in place, the way that we've been able to 21 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.359 kind of grow that flex our muscles and where we are right now and what's 22 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:38.840 ahead of us in the future. So because of that too, obviously comes 23 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:44.319 with like unique challenges and things like problem solving, which as creatives we love 24 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:47.079 that stuff. I know you love that. So what's like one thing that 25 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:52.599 you're actively problem solving, working to try to make better within your your purview 26 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:56.359 right now? Yeah, I mean I'd say like we're always optimize and kind 27 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.239 of everything we do across the board and you know, part of our roles 28 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:04.040 is building the beast. You know, both performance ads and also brand ads, 29 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.479 and performance changes based on the platform and the day and kind of what 30 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:10.759 they want. A favor brand is a little bit easier because once you've kind 31 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:15.400 of nailed that, you can build upon it, but performance is really this 32 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:20.240 you know, constant machine of testing and learning. So really being able to 33 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.960 scale that to be best in class, still being able to stand out and, 34 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:28.120 you know, building that kind of repeatable growth machine is is definitely something 35 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:34.280 that we're working towards like that always interesting to hear and what people are focused 36 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:37.800 on. So here's the deal. So word choice matters. It matters to 37 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:39.639 me as a podcast host, it matters to marketers, it matters to those 38 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:45.719 listening. I know it matters to you and when we were talking before we 39 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:50.120 actually hit record, there was one word that sort of sparked where I wanted 40 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.520 to take this conversation. The word was personality, and you said it multiple 41 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:59.039 times. I could tell it matter to you. Let's start with what does 42 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:04.120 Melissa rose and all think when the word personality, specifically in the context of 43 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.759 B Tob Brands, comes up? Yeah, I mean I think it's it's 44 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:14.360 really kind of that that ecosystem of how the brand exists. And and what 45 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:17.080 do I mean by that? I kind of mean every single touch point that 46 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:22.680 you could ever have or engage with when it comes to a product or a 47 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:27.120 brand. So that goes from, you know, an in in product in 48 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:31.919 APP experience to a billboard you'll see, to a design on our site, 49 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:37.280 to our social voice. It's kind of every single touch point that that you 50 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:43.759 might have really needs to kind of encompass the same unified personality, and I'll 51 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.080 say personality because that's the way that I feel it. It should kind of 52 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.639 be, it should feel like a personality, but it's so much more than 53 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.120 just, like you know, when you think personality, you think about like 54 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:57.159 well, it's more that interaction that like, you know, wonder one and 55 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.319 and it's a lot more than that. So I think it's yeah, it's 56 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:03.719 definitely been something that I've thought about here since day one. How do we 57 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:08.199 build that? What does it mean? What does that mean across the company? 58 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:10.520 How do you get people aligned on that? And then how do you 59 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.960 make sure that it's unified so that every touch point, that person, that 60 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.639 customer, that user has, feels that way? Think specifically on the be 61 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:21.600 tob side, even the word like brand were behind. So when you start 62 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:26.480 bringing the word like personality and it's like even a further step in thinking, 63 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:29.000 in process. So I want to do this real quick. Let's run a 64 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:33.240 little bit of like a side side compared contrast when it comes like personality versus 65 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:38.759 brand. What are the differences there the nuances and thinking? Yeah, I 66 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:42.480 mean I would say brand is kind of that high, highest level, like 67 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:47.000 you know, overarching view of the company and way that you convey yourself and 68 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:55.000 market and personality is more distilled down to every single touch point. So it's 69 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.360 a sum of all of its parts. I mean brand is to but her 70 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.480 the personality kind of is much more nuanced than I would say and much more 71 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:08.240 grindular when you're talking about the daytoday and the choice that you're making. And 72 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:11.879 then also, I think what the other word that would come to mind, 73 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.959 that I would want to throw in here would be tone, like what's the 74 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:21.399 niche that the personality of the brand really satisfieses? That makes sense, like 75 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:27.560 what is the personality verse the tone? Yeah, I mean I think the 76 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.120 personality aligns with the tone right, and I think there's few things kind of 77 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:34.079 go hand in hand and by establishing and it is kind of a hierarchy, 78 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.879 right, like it depends on how you're thinking about brand, which affects how 79 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.839 you're going to think about personality, which is how you think about tone. 80 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.439 So, if you want to think about it kind of in that linear fashion, 81 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:47.199 it certainly they they certainly like touch each other pretty closely. They're just 82 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.120 at different levels of that engagement and that kind of like, you know, 83 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:56.639 user touch point life cycle, I would say. And from your vantage point, 84 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.439 you're coming in and personality was the word that like really kind of sparked 85 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:04.120 something in you. You would say yeah, because I think it's easy to 86 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:08.439 talk about brand and it's easy to talk about, you know tone, but 87 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:14.519 like personality is such this this way of thinking about humanizing it, and I 88 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.920 think people start to take it seriously. Your question it, which is great, 89 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.800 when you start to say a word like personality, just to your point, 90 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:24.279 like it's not really a common, you know descriptor, I would say, 91 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:28.120 mentioned in Beta be so when you start talking about that, people are 92 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:30.040 it's often confusing. It's like well, what, how do you apply a 93 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:33.720 personality to a product? And I you know, that's what we all should 94 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:38.839 start thinking about, because when you when you're into such a hyper competitive space 95 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:43.319 and you need to figure out what your differentiators are outside of product and features, 96 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.319 you have to start thinking at that brand level and then distilling that down 97 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:48.160 to the the things that you can actually have a huge impact with, and 98 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:53.399 I think that notion of a personality really is one of those big things, 99 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:56.720 one of those key factors for sure. Okay, so let's go here. 100 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.639 Let's go personal for a second. As a chief creative officer, what part 101 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:06.560 do you play in ensuring that that personality is surfacing in in the right ways? 102 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:11.240 Like how does it inform the things that you're pushing people to create and 103 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.160 in the vision you're giving? Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's 104 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.240 sometimes it's easy to get caught up in like the day to day of what 105 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.040 you have to produce, and you have to do so. Whenever I'm working 106 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:25.079 with my team on whether it's like a design asset or it's a piece of 107 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:29.800 social copy, I always have that gut check of like is this Aligne to 108 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.600 you kind of the personality of the of the brand of our of our tone 109 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.439 of our company, and making sure that we're kind of double checking on that. 110 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:41.040 Ever, every time, because it is it becomes like, you know, 111 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.360 it's so easy to just not do that and all of a sudden, 112 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:46.879 like its kind of sound like every other company out there. So I would 113 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:50.000 say there's a huge impact there. And then, you know, creating things 114 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:56.839 that feel so unique and differentiated in terms of that like that hyper like we're 115 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:00.560 fun, we have a sense of humor, we're not too selfaware, we 116 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.680 help you. So we empower right, and you know, that's sort of 117 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:07.800 the the like the personality we like to give. It's a humanization of the 118 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:13.319 products. He's basically your productivity best friend who's cool and witty and smart and 119 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.879 funny and selfaware. And I like to take all of those, those kind 120 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.920 of descriptors and and try to think about every single thing that we create, 121 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.560 like whether it's a static asset or emotion graphic. If and you know, 122 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.560 one good example of that is we we were thinking about, you know, 123 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:31.920 as we just kind of thinking about our personality and and our motion graphics language. 124 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:33.919 I was working with the motion team on on kind of like can we 125 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:39.399 create languages in motion graphics that are like nuanced to the personality that we that 126 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:41.919 we are right, that we stand for something that is very uniquely up and 127 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:48.080 the team came up with this kind of liquefied radiant motion wipe the end of 128 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:50.679 our ads. Every ad will have that. We loved it, like this 129 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:56.799 is this is super creative and we circulated across the company in the product team 130 00:08:56.879 --> 00:08:58.039 loved it so much that they were like, well, this is really great. 131 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:03.000 We should incorporate break this into the loading mechanism where everyone interacts with this 132 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.600 when they're loading, and you know, that's sort of the way that I 133 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.200 think like a like click up is just great because the visibility allows us to 134 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.679 do that. So the notion of having a personality from the brand level easily 135 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.919 can kind of manifest itself in ways that you see it in the product and 136 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.480 in other parts of the company. So there's there's a definitely like a benefit 137 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:24.000 of like you know, we're not working in silos, working very closely across 138 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:28.679 the entire organization. So something like that can happen and it should happen like 139 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:33.120 that should inspire product, that should inspire tone, that should inspire kind of 140 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:37.480 all the other all the other things that we do here. Hey, everybody, 141 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.399 Benjie here as a member of the sweet fish team. I wanted to 142 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:45.840 take a second and share something that makes us insanely more efficient. Our team 143 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.840 uses lead Iq. For those that are in sales, or you're in sales 144 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:52.320 offs, let me give you context. What once took us four hours to 145 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:58.960 gather contact data now just takes one. That's seventy five percent more efficient. 146 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:05.120 We are so much quicker withoutbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier 147 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.720 than before. A highly suggest that you check out lead Iq as well. 148 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:15.919 You can find them at lead iqcom. That's L ADIQCOM. All right, 149 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:22.559 let's jump back into the show. That should inspire product that should inspire tone 150 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.200 that should inspire kind of all the other all the other things that we do 151 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.320 here. Yep, I think of a couple linked and buzz words that naturally 152 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.039 just come up in this conversation. One would be humanizing be to be. 153 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.879 The other would be emotional marketing, because I think personality ends up playing into 154 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:43.480 both of those. But I think they're cliches for a reason. Right there 155 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.120 are things that we're thinking about, their things that we need to be talking 156 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:48.919 about, and so much of the industry is kind of at this place where 157 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:54.360 it's yet to fully adopt those things. Any kind of examples where you see 158 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.360 that playing out where you're going? Then we we really do it, and 159 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:01.919 maybe from your experience that click up. You're like, we need to see 160 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.159 a shift in the way be to be thinks about humanizing be to be and 161 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.159 this idea of emotional marketing. Yeah, I mean listen, like I've been 162 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.440 doing emotional marketing for for my whole career, so I've seen the impact of 163 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:20.399 that and it works and in you taking that application and not necessarily copying and 164 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.039 pasting it, but understanding like what drives, you know, what drives intent 165 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.240 and and what resonates in a world where, like your attention span is probably 166 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.080 a couple of seconds, like you're scrolling through your feed, your you know, 167 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:35.080 like something has to kind of catch you and resonate with you enough where 168 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:37.559 you're either going to share it or talk about it or it stays with you. 169 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.879 And I think going into it with that perspective, like how do you 170 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:45.440 do that? Well, it's creating, you know, a voice that stands 171 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.240 out, it's creating a brand that stands out, it's creating something more than 172 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:50.840 just like a product to use. And then, you know, what that 173 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:56.240 creates is that creates ambassadors who feel like they are championing like something that's real 174 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:00.399 to them. First, just a piece of software, you know, like 175 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.080 I think the end of the day, it just becomes you're able to, 176 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.279 you know, capitalize on a larger market when you're able to do that. 177 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.320 So I think it was kind of a bet we took. I mean, 178 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.639 I hadn't really seen it much in the space. I mean, of course 179 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.720 you know, there's there's good brand design out there and people have very like 180 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:22.480 clear visions of what that looks like. But in terms of personality, I 181 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.759 hadn't really like come across any any beab companies where I was like wow, 182 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:28.799 actually, you know, huffpot had done a really great job with their content 183 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.840 and also web flows has a great personality and some of their their video content. 184 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.159 So you know, there are instances of it, but it was I 185 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:43.200 think it was far from felt. It was far from feeling unified across everything 186 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.720 that I had come in contact with with that company, that product. So 187 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:48.399 that was kind of my goal, Min North Star of being able to do 188 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:54.480 that. What's been most helpful for you in creating that, that cohesive personality? 189 00:12:54.759 --> 00:13:00.879 It's been most helpful, I think, the the buying from from leadership, 190 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:03.159 you know, across the board that like and and the company that like. 191 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.720 You know, everyone is excited to to you know, excited to share 192 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.879 out the stuff that is being created, is excited about our brand voice, 193 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.000 is excited about this. I think that by and gives us the confidence to 194 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.759 want to create more, be able to iterate on that and keep it going. 195 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.039 So I think that's been a huge driver of it, seeing the growth 196 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.480 and market over the past year and and knowing that we stand out, that 197 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.240 you know, this is this is how we come across. We're bright, 198 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.399 we're vibrant, we're selfaware. Where we're witty, we will be bold, 199 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.879 and I think, you know, allowing that to kind of really shine through 200 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.679 and seeing it resonate with our users and community has definitely been like a really 201 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:48.159 nice thing, because there isn't a ton of examples in be tob that were 202 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:54.720 like just really, really crushing it. Where do you start with personality design, 203 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.720 like what was some of your first steps to lock in? Okay, 204 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:00.840 we're going to be witty, we're going to go down the humor out, 205 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:03.720 we're going to have bright colors. Yeah, I mean like when I started, 206 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.080 you know, it was still a company of like seventy people, so 207 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.320 they had had certainly thought about you know, Zeb Zeb coming in with a 208 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.639 CEO like that is really kind of a blessing because all of a sudden you 209 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.399 have a CEO who is, you know, young, who gets it, 210 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.000 who is wearing very vibrant shirts, who is very, you know, has 211 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.399 his own really strong personality, and you're able to then capitalize off of his 212 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:31.039 brand a bit and you know, also the company that he's built looks different 213 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:35.440 than everyone every other company. It's part of the reason I joined right like 214 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:41.200 I didn't join a Betab company that where the the coloring and the design esthetic 215 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:46.120 was dark blue and gray and you out like prison. Yeah, like there 216 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.399 was a reason why I felt like this could work. So I think coming 217 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.720 in and seeing the copy that had been written in some of the really clever 218 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:56.600 tactics that that had already worked, I was like, well, this is 219 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.440 great, this is a fantastic jumping off point. You know, I had 220 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:03.840 a little bit of a runway, given like everything that had been done before, 221 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.600 and it was just like that perfect runway, perfect amount of runway. 222 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.639 I would say to then say, all right, this is great. You 223 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:11.759 know there there's already buy in here. It echoes the you know, the 224 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.320 feel and vibe of our CEO and our company as a whole, and you 225 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:18.799 know, there's a lot to build off of if you're teaching personality to a 226 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:24.679 new employee that's coming in. What are you just summing it up in the 227 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:26.960 words that you've said here? Are there some specific things that you're going we 228 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.519 want to make sure people understand this or is it just is it more cought 229 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.440 than taught at this point? Yeah, it's more COT and taught. I 230 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:37.840 think there's so much now, like you know, across everything that we're doing 231 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.600 that you get the feeling of who we are. It's also at throughout the 232 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:45.080 culture, like very much. So like I feel like our our mission, 233 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.000 you know, our mission and our vision and our core values certainly echo the 234 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:54.039 personality of the company a lot. So when you have that tied back to 235 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:58.440 the feel, the tone, the brand, it all feels very unified. 236 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.000 There's not it's not very it's not out of place. You kind of feel 237 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.799 it from day one. Went that you step in the door and the more 238 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.759 that you you know, are on boarded and you interact with the product and 239 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:11.519 the brand and you know it comes across very clearly. So right now, 240 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.440 because you guys are in a great place around personality, do you see you 241 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.840 know, people will say vision drifts. People will talk about as you you 242 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:25.799 know, company expands, there's so much opportunity for something to leak and it 243 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.559 just kind of fade. I wonder how you think about that as you guys 244 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.519 are scaling. Is that something that's on your radar. Are you just feel 245 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.200 like, like how do you keep that forward momentum? Yeah, I mean 246 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:37.679 that's a great question. I think like, first of all, you constantly 247 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.200 need to be experimenting and iterating and like trying new things, and we do 248 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:45.600 that every day. HMM. And some will be seen and some won't be 249 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:47.600 seen, and I think that's the beauty of it. Like there's a lot 250 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:51.200 behind the scenes that no one sees and and you know, people imagine that 251 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:52.519 like wow, how did they just do that? And it's like well, 252 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.159 we tried a lot of different things. But yeah, I mean, of 253 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:59.000 course there's always like the conversation. It's like, as you go up market, 254 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:00.720 as you go enterprise, do you have to become serious? Do you 255 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.799 have to lose that? You have to drop it? Please don't become serious. 256 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:08.359 The answer is the answers. No, like, I mean, you 257 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:12.039 know, there are certain things that we tried, I would say day one 258 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:15.880 when I came in, that were briskier, you know, a little bit 259 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.440 more on the air of like I was trying to figure out what that personality 260 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.880 was and maybe that wasn't it. So things I wouldn't do back then that 261 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.599 I you know, that things I did back that I wouldn't do today in 262 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.680 terms of our marketing and our personality and our voice, but that was more 263 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:32.920 in the process of establishing it and I think like going up market, you 264 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:36.200 know, you can like I even look at like sales force, right. 265 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.039 I mean I would say, like, if you want to point to anything 266 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:41.960 and say, like, you know, Benny off, obviously no one's going 267 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:45.400 to say that that guy hasn't nailed business and enterprise and been able to move 268 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:49.400 up market with his set of woodland creatures. So you know, if you 269 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.599 want to talk about like someone that has a person that you know brand that 270 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.680 has personality, who's established like a set of stuff, you know, living 271 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.119 basically stuffed animals that come to the office and also our front and center and 272 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.880 every advertisement they have, I said, I would say that's a pretty good 273 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.160 example of a two hundred billion dollar, you know, market cap company that 274 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:11.720 is done personality and brand pretty well. Yeah, definitely the top. You're 275 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.640 seeing so much personality from be to be. That's what is so interesting in 276 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.920 the space is the discrepancy between the ones that are getting it and then, 277 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:25.279 I think, those that are hopefully next to adopt it. That's obviously our 278 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.920 biggest thing we want to push people now. Yeah, and it's nice to 279 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.640 have like that as a reference point because I think you know any of the 280 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.799 detractors, for someone, you know, for someone saying that you can't have 281 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.200 that at that level, I would say, well, you know, Look, 282 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.920 look at this company. You know they've done it and I think it's 283 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.519 ohevery you're always going to have to tractors until you do it or until there's 284 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.759 examples to point to. But I think that's always like, you know, 285 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:52.000 the riskier or the the more like, you know, experimental and and forward 286 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:56.400 thinking people in any industry. I mean isn't isn't it the same thing? 287 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.000 Isn't there always that kind of that huge set of doubt and like the ability 288 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:04.240 to have something like transcend and industry before it actually happens? So Hmm, 289 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.119 okay. So let's say a listeners listening to this. They're like, I 290 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:14.319 want to take a step in the direction of more brand personality. They're in 291 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.440 a creative role or their marketing director. What would you say, any advice 292 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.720 you would give to someone that's trying to define that personality right now? Yeah, 293 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.880 I mean I would say, like if they're coming in and there is 294 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.119 something built. It's establishing, like what does that you like from like a 295 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.000 design perspective, like when you look at at something, when you interact with 296 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.400 it on the site, when you're having that experience as a user, how 297 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.480 do you feel? And doing it on that user perspective? And then and 298 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.440 then starting to think about can I mold this? Are there things that would 299 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.799 make this feel better, make it feel you know, and it can be. 300 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:52.920 It could be like unemotional empowerment, feeling right like you, your software 301 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.200 is changing the world and you want to, you know, empower people to 302 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:59.200 do certain things and that is the entire ethos of your company. It's an 303 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.079 empowerment. We have that too. I just think we're we take a cheeker 304 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.279 kind of play on it a little bit. But yeah, I mean I 305 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:08.720 think it's really just kind of establishing what you have, like the assets that 306 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.839 you have, the ground work that's been laid, and then figuring out how 307 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.319 can I tweak this? You know, what do I want to add? 308 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:18.480 What elements can I sprinkle in? Like how do you kind of dissect what 309 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:23.079 what already exists in kind of insert certain things into it? It's like a 310 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.640 nebulous answer, but it's kind of just like what I did here, which 311 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:30.039 was what do I have to work with? This is my vision for it, 312 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.599 and what is the what is the marriage of that? Okay, we're 313 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.480 about to wrap up, but I got to ask you this. Do you 314 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:40.640 imagine that all the companies that you would work for would end up being witty 315 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.680 and humor? Like those would be driving factors? You mean, like all 316 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.599 the companies that I would see? Yeah, like as like the personality. 317 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:49.680 Yeah, if you were to leave and you're like, I'm going to go 318 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:53.279 look for another company, do those become defining factors for Melissa, like I'm 319 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:59.400 picking another witty, funny type of brand, a brand that allows me to 320 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:00.960 do that up solutely? I mean, yeah, there are a couple of 321 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:06.720 companies I would certainly not work for, I'll tell you that. But yeah, 322 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.920 absolutely. I mean it allows, you know, it allows and breeds 323 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.359 this culture and this creativity within a company. I think when you're able to 324 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:18.319 do that, that makes it really special and I believe in like, you 325 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:22.079 know, culture and community is like, you know, a huge mode around 326 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:23.759 any company. You know, like if you don't have that, at the 327 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:27.279 end of the day, you know, we're working with no code products. 328 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:30.720 At this point anyone can build anything. Something that would have taken years to 329 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.920 build people can build in a in a week, you know. So it's 330 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.839 when you when you get to that point of kind of parody with with technical 331 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.200 expertise and being able to build, like, what do you have left? 332 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:45.960 It's differentiation through brand and through tone and through personality. So yeah, of 333 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.839 course I really believe in that. And Yeah, I mean just my own 334 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.599 personality. I don't think I could work at a super serious company that had 335 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:59.240 no like, no notion of being selfaware and understanding that people, you know, 336 00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:03.519 enjoy laughing and emotion resonates. Yeah, I think it just drives home 337 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.000 the point that like, personality also attracts the type of people that you want. 338 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.480 Like what a personality you allow your brand to take on is the type 339 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.119 of people that you attract to it. And so I think that says it 340 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.160 pretty well, both internally and externally. Those are the types of people were 341 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:23.640 attracting. Most of this has been a really fun conversation. Plug Click up. 342 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.200 I mean you have to live under a rock probably not to have seen 343 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.960 a billboard or a bus at this point, but plug click up real quick, 344 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.359 and then where people can connect with you. Yeah, absolutely so. 345 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.759 Click up is an all in one productivity solution. Your tasks, your dogs, 346 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.480 your goals, all your work in one platform. So allows your entire 347 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:45.799 team and company to have like full visibility to everything everyone's working on and make 348 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.960 you more efficient productive in the process. And you can connect with me on 349 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.400 Linkedin on twitter. I'm unfortunately still touched the last in the name of my 350 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.480 last company because I'm verified so I can't change it, but I'm a molissa 351 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:02.519 on Cheddar on twitter and Melissa Rosenthal on Linkedin. But yeah, feel free 352 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.440 to connect. I'm always happy to chat with anyone. Thanks so much for 353 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.880 jumping on be to be gross today, Molissa. That's been an honor to 354 00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:11.559 have you. Thanks, Benji. Really enjoyed it. Appreciate you.
